I bought my 2002 on Massmusic mainly because they sell Paistes dirt cheap on that site.

I buy alot of cymbals ofline.... Splashes - imho I think a splash is a splash and a description from the manufacturer of what it would sound like is good enough for how I use it. And with the others I just read about the properties it has. If I get it and really don't like it then I just sell it on :) I do however have a feel for zildjian cymbals as I tried them out at a store. Then again all I use are Zildjians at the minute

I buy mine by hand. Easier and i dont lose money.

Besides, im into hand hammered cymbals lately so i dont have a choice.

I can't see how I've lost money, or its been harder. I've saved loads of money buy buying online. And its not easier to drive 45miles to stand testing loads of cymbals alday.... I will admit I've been lucky and liked all of the cymbals I've bought. If I was after a pacific sound I would definately check out various stores around.

Cymbals lose value when you buy them so if you had to sell it you'd have lost out.

I HAVE to test cymbals. I cant buy them blindly. Its just what i do.

I don't loose value, the cymbals I bought offline were 2nd hand. So I can sell them for roughly the same price less £1.46 for listing fees :)

Ok, so, for a guy who know's absolutely zilch about drums (barring that metal drumemrs have HUGE-*** drum sets, which look ****en awesome, and jazz guys in vintage TV appearances always have stuff that looks like a little plastic toy set), outta curiosity, what are the differences in constructiobn for varying genre-oriented cymbals?

jazz cymbals are darker, and are extensively hammered to create a drier sound, this also quiets the cymbal down and makes it blend well with lower volume music

rock cymbals are usually bright in sound character, and have high decibal sounds to cut thru fierce guitar amps and be heard. they are usually of thicker weight to increase volume and stick definition which is the ability to hear the sound of the stick hitting the cymbal, rather than just a complete wash of sound like a thin crash

there are fine details in lathing [groove marks cut out of a cymbal] and hammering as well as the type of alloy used [pro cymbals tend to be B20, while beginer are B8]

there's some basics of cymbals in the two most popular opposite genre's of music

[QUOTE=Arise II;15972394]Ok, so, for a guy who know's absolutely zilch about drums (barring that metal drumemrs have HUGE-*** drum sets, which look ****en awesome, and jazz guys in vintage TV appearances always have stuff that looks like a little plastic toy set)[/QUOTE]

hahaha.

Most those "vintage" jazz guys played that before the TV was commercialized.

[QUOTE=Seafroggys;15972777]hahaha.

Most those "vintage" jazz guys played that before the TV was commercialized.[/QUOTE]

yeah, sarcasm 101, dude...

Naw, without actually seeing you around here before I wouldn't know if you were actually being sarcastic or not.

So you are sarcastic; you probably still believed those jazz 'performances' were TV specials, despite the fact that most of them are from the 30s and 40s and TV didn't really start making an impact until the 50s :thumb:

Seafroggys... it was [i]really[/i] obvious he was making stupid stereotypes there to showcase his lack of knowledge.

That said, Plan B's post is absolutely correct except for the alloys. B8 is a great alloy, in fact, Sabian's new APX line is B8. And, hey, what about the Paiste 2002's?

Yeah but APX so far are a huge dissapointment. I agree with the obvious stereotype thing though.

Jazz cymbals tend to be lighter in weight as well i notice. Anything catered specifically to rock/metal is heavy as hell.

[QUOTE=Seafroggys;15974742]Naw, without actually seeing you around here before I wouldn't know if you were actually being sarcastic or not.

So you are sarcastic; you probably still believed those jazz 'performances' were TV specials, despite the fact that most of them are from the 30s and 40s and TV didn't really start making an impact until the 50s :thumb:[/QUOTE]

Ack, oh noez, you've seen through my veil of sarcasm and straight into the utter lack of knowledge of 20th century history, despite the so called "education" I've obtained through media studies and jazz history...

[QUOTE=crazyguy832;15975087]That said, Plan B's post is absolutely correct except for the alloys. B8 is a great alloy, in fact, Sabian's new APX line is B8. And, hey, what about the Paiste 2002's?[/QUOTE]

You wouldn't happen to know exactly what type of alloy they are made of?

They're very secretive about the exact alloy.

[QUOTE=Drum Phil;15975804]They're very secretive about the exact alloy.[/QUOTE]

Those BASTARDS!

Well zildjian have a legacy of only one person knowing the precise mix of the alloy.

That changed when sabian split off but i doubt they still use the same alloys.

B8 IS a great alloy if the cymbal that it is being made out of is made professionally. it tends to have more high end than B20--- my favorite crash i own Paiste 2oo2 Full Crash 18" is made of B8 or something very much like B8

but most beginer cymbals are made out of this alloy however

Major difference in the alloy between professional grade B8 and beginner B8 (major IIRC here) is that professional is cast while beginner is sheet.

As for Paiste... the 2002 cymbals [i]are[/i] B8. They aren't some super-secret recipe... they ARE made of B8 alloy.

[QUOTE=crazyguy832;15980416]Major difference in the alloy between professional grade B8 and beginner B8 (major IIRC here) is that professional is cast while beginner is sheet.

As for Paiste... the 2002 cymbals [i]are[/i] B8. They aren't some super-secret recipe... they ARE made of B8 alloy.[/QUOTE]


please. enlighten the rest of us on the differences between 'sheet' and 'cast'.

:)

Cast bronze is a better quality alloy.

Bronze is an alloy. it has to be cast regardless

Yeah but cast B8 bronze is a slightly different alloy. Sheet is rolled out by a machine so it gets stretched and distorted which can cause weaknesses.

^^^
This.

Also...

[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cymbal_making[/url]

[i]Traditionally cymbals were made from individually cast cymbal blanks, which were then hot-forged, often with many annealing processes, to form the rough shape of the cymbal.

...

Top quality "cast" cymbals are normally made from bell bronze, while "sheet" cymbals are normally made from malleable alloys.[/i]

That said, there [i]are[/i] some good sheet bronze cymbals out their (Meinl has some, forgot which line), it's just that B8 itself is [i]much[/i] better sounding when cast.

drumphil :

12" classics china

Shall give it a go.

Why is it called B8?

because it contains 8% tin.

just like B20 contains 20% tin

ZOMG.

Hehe

Hi guys. I have some nice cymbals at hand.
My guitarist has a drum set at our rehearsal place and he has a pair of Paiste Formula 602s (medium, 14") and a Zildjian 16" Thin Crash. It doesn't have any sign of a series print on it, but I guess it's a K. The top Hat must have had a crack, since a piece of it is missing (about 1"), that spot has been cleanly grinded and I still love the sound. The Zildjian is in top condition (haven't looked for key holes yet).
What do you think should I offer him? He had concerns about reselling the kit if it missed those cymbals, but I already suggested giving him my old 302 crash (which is in good condition) and Pearl brass hats (which already have cracks).
I'm also considering to buy his Formula 602 ride, since I only own a 302. Which would be a nice upgrade.
I'm thinking about giving him 200 Euros for all three (four) cymbals, maybe I'll start with 150 to aim at a bargain. What do you think?

I can also provide some audio clips from our rehearsal, so you might have a taste of the sound.