[QUOTE=Aes820]If you want to biamp you'd also need an active crossover.
A seperate graphic EQ for both the FOH and the monitors.
And you'd want maybe three Compressor/limiter/gate units.
FX units may also come in handy.
Plus then the mulitcore, all the mics + mic stands. Cabeling.

I'll be able to write up a proper list once I get an idea on what you are actually planning and what types of venues you are going to be playing.[/QUOTE]

We'll be mic-ing two vocalists, and a drumset. So, an entire band. In recording, I usually mic a guitar/bass amp, but I'm guessing that might not be need when doing a show.

Mostly for smaller gigs, not big venues or anything. In town, street shows, restaurants, nothing in excess of 100 people.

We don't really have a dedicated sound guy, myself, as the drummer, normally does all the sound for recording, and I'm sure I can set everything else up myself too! :)

I also will try to use speakers and other amplifiers for DJ'ing. I have a DJ mixer that I can use, but I might be better off with a powered mixer anyway. Plus, I might also use it for some school performances. Hope that helps. :)

^ In that case you won't need a big setup.
You shouldn't need to biamp and you may not even need to have a monitoring setup.
Although perhaps a couple of foldbacks for vocal reinforcement may come in handy.

Wether or not you run the guitar and bass through the PA would depend on the loudness of their own amps. You may not need to run them through the PA, provided you coordinate each band member to control their own volume levels suitably.

Brands like Peavey and Yamaha have got some packaged systems that may be what you are after. A powered mixer with plenty of headroom and features. A couple of FOH bins, stands, foldback speakers, maybe even a few mics.

This would be good:
[url]http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=live/s=packaged/search/detail/base_pid/601415/[/url]

All you'll need then is a set of drumkit mics, and perhaps a DI box if you wish to run the bass through the PA.

hey aes, its me again. I need some advice.
We need a P.A. System that is loud enough to do decent gigs. I was thinking 1000 watts would be good, (for all the monitors and loudspeakers included). Here's what we're looking at.

[url]http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=home/search/detail/base_pid/630106/[/url]

[url]http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=live/search/detail/base_pid/600818/[/url]

[url]http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=live/search/detail/base_pid/601201/[/url]

2 loud speakers and 3 or 4 monitors.

Is this a good idea and are they compatible. We're thinking about getting the monitors first, (so we can get the practice) and then get the loud speakers once we can afford.

Dah Aes I still cant find something to work. I just wanted a powered mixer and some speakers for about 400-600$. It would be nice for them to be at least 200 watts, but every mixer i find for under 350$ seems to be 4ohms and then the speakers im finding are 8 ohms, so id be losing a lot of power. I cant find a good match for a mixer and some speakers that will have an end result of more than 200 watts for band practice.

[QUOTE=iron_lion]hey aes, its me again. I need some advice.
We need a P.A. System that is loud enough to do decent gigs. I was thinking 1000 watts would be good, (for all the monitors and loudspeakers included). Here's what we're looking at.

[url]http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=home/search/detail/base_pid/630106/[/url]

[url]http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=live/search/detail/base_pid/600818/[/url]

[url]http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=live/search/detail/base_pid/601201/[/url]

2 loud speakers and 3 or 4 monitors.

Is this a good idea and are they compatible. We're thinking about getting the monitors first, (so we can get the practice) and then get the loud speakers once we can afford.[/QUOTE]

Those two yamaha speakers will go well with the powered mixer. They would be a good match. Go for those.
They are 8 ohm speakers, and the powered mixer is rated to pump out 500 watts a side while at 4 ohms.
So you wont be getting all of the power out of the powered mixer. But if you do need extra watts then just buy another pair of 8 ohm FOH speakers and run then in parrallel to those two Yamaha ones.
Easy.

However, the monitors will be a little different.
As you'd normally run the monitors off one of the Aux outputs of the mixer, you'll need a seperate poweramp for those monitor wedges.

What you could do is just buy a cheap 2x200 watt poweramp and run the monitors off those.
Run it like:
Mixer -> main left + right (powered) outputs of mixer -> 2x Yamaha FOH bins
Then:
Aux output 1 of mixer -> left side of seperate poweramp -> Monitor speakers.
Aux output 2 of mixer -> right side of poweramp -> other monitor speakers.

This way you can use the Aux 1 and 2 levels on the mixer to control monitor mix and volume seperate to the main outputs.

I can draw a diagram if all this doesn't make sense.

Or perhaps you could buy powered speakers to use as monitors. But generally 'good' powered speakers are expensive.

But it's up to you, and your budget.

[QUOTE=UsefulIdi0t]Dah Aes I still cant find something to work. I just wanted a powered mixer and some speakers for about 400-600$. It would be nice for them to be at least 200 watts, but every mixer i find for under 350$ seems to be 4ohms and then the speakers im finding are 8 ohms, so id be losing a lot of power. I cant find a good match for a mixer and some speakers that will have an end result of more than 200 watts for band practice.[/QUOTE]
Like I said above. You can run two pairs of 8 ohm speakers both in parrallel to each other, as two 8 ohm speakers in parrallel = 4 ohms total.
Or, you could keep looking for decent 4 ohm speakers.

thanks again aes, you gave me an idea... always a huge help.

[QUOTE=Aes820]Like I said above. You can run two pairs of 8 ohm speakers both in parrallel to each other, as two 8 ohm speakers in parrallel = 4 ohms total.
Or, you could keep looking for decent 4 ohm speakers.[/QUOTE]

Ive been looking at a bunch of websites and every speaker ive found has been 8 ohms. I dont know if im looking at the wrong place but does anyone know of a 100-150$ 4 ohm speaker?

*edit* what about bridging? Does this involving anything more than just making 2 speakers mono? so basically you get more power when bridging or what?

[QUOTE=UsefulIdi0t]Ive been looking at a bunch of websites and every speaker ive found has been 8 ohms. I dont know if im looking at the wrong place but does anyone know of a 100-150$ 4 ohm speaker?

*edit* what about bridging? Does this involving anything more than just making 2 speakers mono? so basically you get more power when bridging or what?[/QUOTE]
The dual 15 inch cabinets are 4 ohms.

My friend and I just bought a pair of used Sunn O))) 210T PAs for incredibly cheap from a friend for our "band" (term used loosely, as we're just tryin to get stuff together), we know that we run the amps through these speakers, but what do we want to put vocals through to get them coming out of the speakers? I know you can run the amps right into the PAs, but do we need an amp for the vocals? If we got a mixer, and ran the mic into the mixer, and then connected the mixer to the speakers, would that work? The PA says 100w input, so I'm gonna look for a mixer with 100w... Sorry this is kind of confusing, but I am confused. Basically-what do I need to get so that I can hear a guitar/bass/vocals in these PAs?

I have an in-ear monitor question. I currently use a PA system for only my vocals:
[url]http://www.birdlandmusic.net/customer/product.php?productid=2076&cat=95360&page=1[/url]

The rest of the band just uses amps and the drums aren't mic'd at all. I am wanting in ears though to help me hear over them because it's been a bit of a problem and because of it being more convient and better quality i'd like to try in ears. The NADY PEM500s are what im thinking about getting, along with SHURE E2 earphones to go in it to compensate for the bad quality ones Nady makes.

Would it be a good idea to do this, even though the only thing in my in ears would be my voice? I think it'd help personally but then again if it was to block out the band I don't really see the point. I also know my PA is pretty weak and thats another thing the in ears would be a gift, and I dont have the money to pay for new speakers, and I think most floor monitors I get would be more powerful than the PA speakers themselves. Most gigs which I plan on doing will provide PA's. For any others (parties, renting out an old building for a show, practice, etc.) I think the speakers would cover it.

i have a question....

if i get active cabs, do i need a power amp....if no, what do you recommend getiin(as in active cabs or passive with a power amp)?

[QUOTE=Screamin_Demon_Auz]I have an in-ear monitor question. I currently use a PA system for only my vocals:
[url]http://www.birdlandmusic.net/customer/product.php?productid=2076&cat=95360&page=1[/url]

The rest of the band just uses amps and the drums aren't mic'd at all. I am wanting in ears though to help me hear over them because it's been a bit of a problem and because of it being more convient and better quality i'd like to try in ears. The NADY PEM500s are what im thinking about getting, along with SHURE E2 earphones to go in it to compensate for the bad quality ones Nady makes.

Would it be a good idea to do this, even though the only thing in my in ears would be my voice? I think it'd help personally but then again if it was to block out the band I don't really see the point. I also know my PA is pretty weak and thats another thing the in ears would be a gift, and I dont have the money to pay for new speakers, and I think most floor monitors I get would be more powerful than the PA speakers themselves. Most gigs which I plan on doing will provide PA's. For any others (parties, renting out an old building for a show, practice, etc.) I think the speakers would cover it.[/QUOTE]


you might be able to use it in only one ear....im no expert, but i think that would work....sry for double post

[QUOTE=meizmatt]i have a question....

if i get active cabs, do i need a power amp....if no, what do you recommend getiin(as in active cabs or passive with a power amp)?[/QUOTE]
No, you would not need a power amp to power active cabs because they have a built in power amp.

For speakers, look into brands such as Peavey, JBL, Yamaha, and Yorkville to name a few. For amps, some good brands would be Crown and QSC.

[QUOTE=isojoe420]No, you would not need a power amp to power active cabs because they have a built in power amp.

For speakers, look into brands such as Peavey, JBL, Yamaha, and Yorkville to name a few. For amps, some good brands would be Crown and QSC.[/QUOTE]
what i meant was do you recommend getting active cabs or getting passive with a power amp

[QUOTE=meizmatt]what i meant was do you recommend getting active cabs or getting passive with a power amp[/QUOTE]
It's all personal preference. Most people will probably say passive speakers with a power amp. I would prefer this too, mainly because of failure issues. For example with a passive/power amp system: If your power amp goes down, then you just need another power amp. Same with speakers. With active speakers, if something goes wrong you need to replace the whole thing which can be expensive.

There are some good active speakers out there. No way(active/passive) is "better" than the other.

I too would suggest passive speakers with a power amp.

I think it'll quite handy to use powered speakers as part of a monitoring setup.
An advantage of powered speakers being that because of all their inbuilt protection they are near on impossible to damage. If they are clipped too much then they'll simply turn themselves off.
And they are pretty much completly self contained, you just need a power supply and a line level signal for them from off the multi-core. You don't have to worry about their loading off the poweramp.
And because many of them are biamped they are very efficient.

If it were me I would use active speakers for the monitors. But keep with the seperate poweramp + passive cabinets for the FOH.

[QUOTE=Aes820]I think it'll quite handy to use powered speakers as part of a monitoring setup.
An advantage of powered speakers being that because of all their inbuilt protection they are near on impossible to damage. If they are clipped too much then they'll simply turn themselves off.
And they are pretty much completly self contained, you just need a power supply and a line level signal for them from off the multi-core. You don't have to worry about their loading off the poweramp.
And because many of them are biamped they are very efficient.

If it were me I would use active speakers for the monitors. But keep with the seperate poweramp + passive cabinets for the FOH.[/QUOTE]
I agree with AES. I actually use this setup. A powered mixer to power the mains, and active speakers for monitors.

Yes, powered speakers are handy and nice. They have disadvantages also. Another disadvantage AES made me think of was the line level signal. You would not want to run line level signals as far as speaker level signals are run at. Line level signals will gain alot of noise after around the 30 foot mark. They also need a power source.

[QUOTE=isojoe420]You would not want to run line level signals as far as speaker level signals are run at. Line level signals will gain alot of noise after around the 30 foot mark. They also need a power source.[/QUOTE]
I disagree.
You'd want it the other way around. Provided your cabeling is properly shielded and balanced, and you keep signal cables well away from the power cables, you should be able to run your line level signal cables as far as you want.
This is why you'd often use that multi-core stage snake which can often be a few hundred feet long.

You'd want to keep your speaker cabeling as short as possible.
Because say for example you're using 60 feet of speaker cable and the speaker cable has its own impedence of 1 ohm every 30 feet. That's 2 extra ohms of loading that you are taking off your poweramp. So if you are running a 4 ohm cabinet at the end of this 2 ohm cable. Then that's 6 ohms total loading off the poweramp.
You'll be wasting a massive one third of the amplifiers power.

True, line level cabeling will also have it's own internal impedence. But the difference of the 2 extra ohms ontop of the 500 ohms that a line level signal runs at will be neglidgible.

In summary. Keep your speaker cables as short as possible, position your poweramps as close as is reasonable to your speakers.

There are exceptions to this rule. Like if you are talking about a PA system at a train station or a shopping centre where your speakers can be many hundreds of feet from their poweramp. But you can use specialised poweramplifiers for this. They use what is known as balanced lines which I wont get into just now.

This theory is similar in reason as to why power companies run high voltage (low current) powerlines across states (11,000kv) and then step it down to 240 or 120 volts for where it comes into the suburbs.
Because if you run 40 amps through miles after miles of powerlines then most of it is going to be lost as heat.

[QUOTE=Aes820]I disagree.
You'd want it the other way around. Provided your cabeling is properly shielded and balanced, and you keep signal cables well away from the power cables, you should be able to run your line level signal cables as far as you want.
This is why you'd often use that multi-core stage snake which can often be a few hundred feet long.
[/QUOTE]
Alot of the line level signals running on a stage aren't balanced though. Most of them are the short patch work done from rack units and power amps. But yes, you can use a DI box, TRS, and XLR cables to balance the line level signals. But alot of my equipment doesn't have TRS connections. So I have to go unbalanced.

[QUOTE=Aes820]
You'd want to keep your speaker cabeling as short as possible.
Because say for example you're using 60 feet of speaker cable and the speaker cable has its own impedence of 1 ohm every 30 feet. That's 2 extra ohms of loading that you are taking off your poweramp. So if you are running a 4 ohm cabinet at the end of this 2 ohm cable. Then that's 6 ohms total loading off the poweramp.
You'll be wasting a massive one third of the amplifiers power.[/QUOTE]
Depends on the gages of cable you are using. You can run long distances with the speaker cable, but you would want to use a low gage.

pa combo?
 

is the such thing as a cheap combo amp style pa? i just need some thing for Rehearsal to amplifiy the vocals

bump

whats cheap to you?

I've just been asked to join a local theatre group to run lights and sound.

We are looking to get a P.A system for running sound effects etc. also we plan on having talent competitions etc which means bands.

Basically what sort of thing should we be looking at, for around £800max. I'd say we'll need about 8 channel mixer, speakers, amp, all cabling. We have 4 mics and leads, so maybe another 4.
What do you recommend?

Cheers,
Tim

[QUOTE=ljump12]whats cheap to you?[/QUOTE]
idk, below $400. i was really just woundering if this kind of system exist, and who make one so that i can research it my self.

If you wanna go real cheap, behringer have a 120 watt keyboard amp/PA system combo

[QUOTE=the.warmth]If you wanna go real cheap, behringer have a 120 watt keyboard amp/PA system combo[/QUOTE]
will vocals blow that up, like they would a guitar amp?

[QUOTE=Samick]will vocals blow that up, like they would a guitar amp?[/QUOTE]

nope, it has a decicated mic input.

[QUOTE=drumass04]I've just been asked to join a local theatre group to run lights and sound.

We are looking to get a P.A system for running sound effects etc. also we plan on having talent competitions etc which means bands.

Basically what sort of thing should we be looking at, for around £800max. I'd say we'll need about 8 channel mixer, speakers, amp, all cabling. We have 4 mics and leads, so maybe another 4.
What do you recommend?

Cheers,
Tim[/QUOTE]

I'd look at packages from Peavey, and maybe adding in an extra mixer (yamaha MG12/2 or somehting like that) for where you're micing a full drum kit.

Im wondering if i can get something to work for our PA

right now we have a ELECTRO-VOICE Sx200 speaker (i dont know if anyone will know what it is, but i might as well say it) and we need power/a mixer for it. the speaker handles 300W and i was wondering if i could just get a powermixer, i was looking at the Behringer PMH660M Europower Powered Mixer. we would need at least two mics and hopefully we could get a 3rd, we wouldnt need to use any instraments. if we got the power mixer, is that all we would need? is the one 300W speaker enough? do we need to get another? is that power mixer enough power for all the vocals?
as you can most likely tell, im kinda clueless about this stuff, so any help will be greatly appriciated.

heres a link to the power mixer i mentioned above if its needed [URL="http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=live/search/detail/base_pid/631250/"]http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=live/search/detail/base_pid/631250/[/URL]

First of all, Behringer makes some good stuff, just stay away from their 'Euro' series. I would recommend getting another Behringer, Yamaha, or Carvin powered mixer. Second of all, getting another 300W speaker would be a good idea as you can run stereo sound through two speakers, and it would just be louder, which is also cool.

[url]http://www.samash.com/catalog/showitem.asp?sku=sportapac&cid=d05_1[/url]

How would that be for vocals?
I would need to run a wireless mic system into it, a wireless in ear system, and a digitech vocal board but thats all. Would that be good to cut through a band. I have a less powerful crate system now that im thinking of turning into studio monitors... this would be perfect if the sound is good because of the portability to it but I dont know the brand.

I've had some experience with Stageworks. They're not very good. If I were in you situation I would definitely look for something better.

Is there any portable PA you would suggest under 500? It needs to be able to cut through a band and will be vocals only

[QUOTE=Screamin_Demon_Auz]Is there any portable PA you would suggest under 500? It needs to be able to cut through a band and will be vocals only[/QUOTE]
[url=http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=live/search/detail/base_pid/630542/]Kustom PA KPA7212 200W 7-Channel PA System[/url]

That might work. I use to own it. It does the job if all you are running is vocals through it.

That looks like a pretty good set up, but something a bit more portable would be better. How does this look:
[url]http://store.americanaudiocenter.com/naenpa.html[/url]

Im thinking of getting it for vocals only. Think it will cut through. A lot of people seem to rip Nady, but I got an in ear system today by them and the quality is quite good of the receiver so I wouldnt mind buying there stuff.

Hey
Im getting into some PA stuff with my band and im curious
Ok my Mains are 2 2x15 speakers that are 1000 watts(500x2)
If i get subs and monitors
how many watts do i need for subs(ill just run a bass guitar and the bass drum threw them) and how big should the speakers be,and how many should i have.
how many watts about should my monitors be. and how big and how many
(i dont know what i will all run threw my monitors, if you could tell me what to do,that would be helpful)
for all this lets just say im running my mains a little over 3/4
oh i have a bass player,drummer,1 guitar ,4 vocals and a keyboard.
Any help would be GREATLY appreciated!
thanks!
andrew

Most subwoofer cabs are 1x18" and usually run about 800W.

Because sub bass frequencies are omni-directional. I would reccomend bridging a seperate poweramp and running just the one sub woofer cabinet.

Bridging a single poweramp for this purpose is a good idea, to allow for a great amount of headroom needed to for these frequencies so as to help prevent clipping.
And besides the fact that stereo dynamics of sub bass frequencys are not really necessary, having a couple of subwoofer speakers in stereo in smaller sized venues can increase the chance of loss of bass responce due to phase cancellation.

Don't worry about only specifying only to run bass and the kick drum through them tho. It doesn't really work that way.
What you'd ideally do is use a crossover to split all your audio signal into different frequency ranges.
So the upper level frequencies will get set to your main poweramps then to your main speakers. Where as all lower bass frequencies get sent to this bridged poweramp then to your sub-woofer cabinet.
It is the crossover that does this splitting up and determins what goes where.

When it comes to monitors. I think one the easiest thing to do is just use powered speakers for monitors. Powered speakers are completely self contained so all you'll have to do is run a power cable to them and a line level signal (maybe off one of the Aux sends of the mixer).
But that's not the only way. You can go for a traditional monitoring setup consisting of a seperate couple of poweramps pushing a few foldback wedges and a drum fill cabinet if you so wish.