[QUOTE=Darkness Of Greed]I have a feeling that they may attract the wrong kind of crowd now though, and those kids will be getting all the floor tickets, while were sitting in the nose bleeds..[/QUOTE]

I kinda have that feeling too. Hard to deny. I was talking to a friend about Opeth and he mentioned how they were all popular all over the internet. It kinda bothers me now because I don't want them selling out. As long as their music is good, that's all I care about. I definitely don't want to see Opeth being a major trend.

It'll definitely be a better trend than all the 'core.
I want the bands I like to be successful cos I think they're good enough to deserve it and not because they identify me and make me feel special for being the only one that knows them. Though I am a little worried now that there might be kids trying to fight invisible ninjas at their concerts.

[QUOTE=Mikael Åkerfeldt]I had intended to do a occult concept piece lyrically and got off to a great start with some downright evil lyrics like "The baying of the hounds" and "Ghost of perdition", then I did "Isolation years" which had nothing to do with the intended concept but I liked it so much I decided to ease up on the concept idea in favour of this one lyric. Why I decided on a occult theme? Well, I've always been intrigued by it, especially Satanism and stuff like that. I studied some books that oddly enough my wife had in her collection like "Servants of Satan" as well as "Witchcraft and Sorcery" + some more.[/QUOTE]

Ghost Reveries is a concept album except for Isolation Years.

For the record IMO ****ation is the best Opeth album. MAYH is second. They are all great though. Blackwater park is high up there.

Yeah, lets just hope hot topic doesn't find out about Opeth. Then we'd have scene kids showing up at their concerts, "to be cool". They would bring hardcore dancing. ughh. I shudder at the very thought.

[QUOTE=Flynn]To answer your question, Roadrunner.[/QUOTE]

You've been hammering away at Roadrunner like a typical tr00 fanboy that can't take the shift from indie status to major label status. Do you know anything about the making of the album? Do you know for a fact that Roadrunner was pressuring them to do stuff? I can't even understand what makes you think Roadrunner has anything to do with the "weakness" of the album. I detect absolutely no change in the general sound of the album from their previous works. There's plenty of growling, plenty of metal, plenty of acoustic. Your criticisms of the album seem primarily directed at the limper riffs, and the limper compositional tightness. Aside from the fact that I disagree completely with that assessment, even if it were truth then it's Mikael's fault, since he did all the writing. I don't exactly detect many strains of pop in the album. I don't hear anything that sounds like nu-metal or American Wave. There are so few differences in the general sound from BWP and Deliverance that any "weakness" you percieve would HAVE to be on a compositional level. Therefore, Mikael is the one you should be harping on about, not the label.

You were down on the move to RR from the start, and the reasons you cited were fear of label pressure to become more mainstream. I'm forced to conclude that that idea has just stuck fast in your brain, and you're simply making a negative association between "major label=sellout and crap music." Therefore, you are for some reason imagining that Roadrunner pressured Opeth into being crappy. Well I see absolutely no evidence of label pressure, since Opeth's sound hasn't changed one bit into a more mainstream direction. IT'S EXACTLY THE [size=2]FUC[/size]KING SAME. And it's not like the label would WANT Opeth to be crappy: they want their fans to buy the album and enjoy it. As I said, it's a writing problem, and so it's Mikael's problem, not the label's.

Ugh, I HATE it when people act so dumb about bands moving to major labels. Give me one bit of aural evidence from that album that screams "label pressure" and I'll friggin' rep you.

EDIT: BTW, an interesting fact: many of the songs on this album were written in open tunings. For instance, "The Grand Conjuration" and "Ghost of Perdition" were written in DADFAD tuning. "Reverie/Harlequine Forest" was in DADFAE.

[QUOTE=Cain]You've been hammering away at Roadrunner like a typical tr00 fanboy that can't take the shift from indie status to major label status. Do you know anything about the making of the album? Do you know for a fact that Roadrunner was pressuring them to do stuff? I can't even understand what makes you think Roadrunner has anything to do with the "weakness" of the album. I detect absolutely no change in the general sound of the album from their previous works. There's plenty of growling, plenty of metal, plenty of acoustic. Your criticisms of the album seem primarily directed at the limper riffs, and the limper compositional tightness. Aside from the fact that I disagree completely with that assessment, even if it were truth then it's Mikael's fault, since he did all the writing. I don't exactly detect many strains of pop in the album. I don't hear anything that sounds like nu-metal or American Wave. There are so few differences in the general sound from BWP and Deliverance that any "weakness" you percieve would HAVE to be on a compositional level. Therefore, Mikael is the one you should be harping on about, not the label.

You were down on the move to RR from the start, and the reasons you cited were fear of label pressure to become more mainstream. I'm forced to conclude that that idea has just stuck fast in your brain, and you're simply making a negative association between "major label=sellout and crap music." Therefore, you are for some reason imagining that Roadrunner pressured Opeth into being crappy. Well I see absolutely no evidence of label pressure, since Opeth's sound hasn't changed one bit into a more mainstream direction. IT'S EXACTLY THE [size=2]FUC[/size]KING SAME. And it's not like the label would WANT Opeth to be crappy: they want their fans to buy the album and enjoy it. As I said, it's a writing problem, and so it's Mikael's problem, not the label's.

Ugh, I HATE it when people act so dumb about bands moving to major labels. Give me one bit of aural evidence from that album that screams "label pressure" and I'll friggin' rep you.

EDIT: BTW, an interesting fact: many of the songs on this album were written in open tunings. For instance, "The Grand Conjuration" and "Ghost of Perdition" were written in DADFAD tuning. "Reverie/Harlequine Forest" was in DADFAE.[/QUOTE]

Thank you for that post, I've gotten tired of posting in here because out of nowhere nearly all of the intellegence left. Not sure if your saying [i]Ghost Reveries[/i] is a bad album [where I strongly dissagree, I think it's brilliant], but your explaining that they aren't sell-outs at least.

I am by no means saying that Ghost Reveries is a bad album. In fact, I think it's far superior to Deliverance.

[QUOTE=Cain]I am by no means saying that Ghost Reveries is a bad album. In fact, I think it's far superior to Deliverance.[/QUOTE]

I kinda don't compare Opeth albums to Deliverance because it was set out to be intentionaly heavy! Most songs on there are at least abit more heavy than standard Opeth songs.

Btw, I think Ghost Reveries is an amazing album. It is my opinion that they focussed mainly on the tightness of the songs compared to the long, streched out riff sections previous albums contained.

Yes, it does sometimes seem abit muddled (see intro to Beneath The Mire) but I believe that the keyboards will play a much better role in future albums. More atmosphere. I also don't believe the record lable had anything to do with the quality of the album. I in fact think it seems to have better production value compared to the DIY standards of previous albums.

Opeth are indeed changing. They always have. But I still believe they have a bright future ahead of them

[QUOTE=Man_Made_God]*flames begin*

Ghost reveries is awsome. It's not as good as ****ation. But its better than blackwater park and their other stuff.[/QUOTE]

HAHAAHAHAHHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAH.

Seriously, don't post here anymore.

[QUOTE=Cain]I am by no means saying that Ghost Reveries is a bad album. In fact, I think it's far superior to Deliverance.[/QUOTE]
*Sigh*

I give up.

[QUOTE=.:~ Route 1 ~:.]HAHAAHAHAHHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAH.

Seriously, don't post here anymore.[/QUOTE]

Why shouldn't he? Just because he likes Ghost Reveries better than Blackwater Park? Is that such an inconcievable thought?

[QUOTE]*Sigh*

I give up.[/QUOTE]

Fine, I guess, if you want to be really immature about people having different opinions from you.

Seriously, I am massively disappointed and not a little disgusted in the attitudes of certain people in this thread. Is your capacity for tolerance so whittled down by endless masturbation and ejaculation over Opeth (or rather, some idealized notion of what Opeth is and should be) that the instant someone comes in with a contrary view to your own you tell them to not post in the thread? That you'll ignore a valid argument, not even deigning it with a [I]response[/I], so that you continue to go on and on about how major labels R teh dev1l?

I have no idea what happened to the people in this thread; the majority of the regs, with the exception of Darkness of Greed, bucket, and Grey Incision, seem to have lost every shred of tolerance and posting intelligence they possess. Flynn, I'm especially disappointed in you. As the threadstarter, I expected more from you than mindless anti-label rhetoric.

[QUOTE=Cain]Why shouldn't he? Just because he likes Ghost Reveries better than Blackwater Park? Is that such an inconcievable thought?



Fine, I guess, if you want to be really immature about people having different opinions from you.

Seriously, I am massively disappointed and not a little disgusted in the attitudes of certain people in this thread. Is your capacity for tolerance so whittled down by endless masturbation and ejaculation over Opeth (or rather, some idealized notion of what Opeth is and should be) that the instant someone comes in with a contrary view to your own you tell them to not post in the thread? That you'll ignore a valid argument, not even deigning it with a [I]response[/I], so that you continue to go on and on about how major labels R teh dev1l?

I have no idea what happened to the people in this thread; the majority of the regs, with the exception of Darkness of Greed, bucket, and Grey Incision, seem to have lost every shred of tolerance and posting intelligence they possess. Flynn, I'm especially disappointed in you. As the threadstarter, I expected more from you than mindless anti-label rhetoric.[/QUOTE]

that kicked *** :thumb:

[QUOTE=Cain]Why shouldn't he? Just because he likes Ghost Reveries better than Blackwater Park? Is that such an inconcievable thought?



Fine, I guess, if you want to be really immature about people having different opinions from you.

Seriously, I am massively disappointed and not a little disgusted in the attitudes of certain people in this thread. Is your capacity for tolerance so whittled down by endless masturbation and ejaculation over Opeth (or rather, some idealized notion of what Opeth is and should be) that the instant someone comes in with a contrary view to your own you tell them to not post in the thread? That you'll ignore a valid argument, not even deigning it with a [I]response[/I], so that you continue to go on and on about how major labels R teh dev1l?

I have no idea what happened to the people in this thread; the majority of the regs, with the exception of Darkness of Greed, bucket, and Grey Incision, seem to have lost every shred of tolerance and posting intelligence they possess. Flynn, I'm especially disappointed in you. As the threadstarter, I expected more from you than mindless anti-label rhetoric.[/QUOTE]

Other's opinions are fine and everything, but saying GR is better than Deliverance is clearly wrong. GR is definetly sub-par compared to Deliverance.

Plus, I don't really care that they signed to RR. Their choice.

But you have to admit, GR is definetly their worst album. It just seems to me that their greatness has left them. For now anyways....

Also, who says it's bad to be critical of your favorite band? I'd say real fans are the ones who are critical of their favorite band because they only expect the best out of them, and GR is definetly not their best.

[QUOTE=.:~ Route 1 ~:.]Other's opinions are fine and everything, but saying GR is better than Deliverance is clearly wrong. GR is definetly sub-par compared to Deliverance.

Plus, I don't really care that they signed to RR. Their choice.

But you have to admit, GR is definetly their worst album. It just seems to me that their greatness has left them. For now anyways....

Also, who says it's bad to be critical of your favorite band? I'd say real fans are the ones who are critical of their favorite band because they only expect the best out of them, and GR is definetly not their best.[/QUOTE]

What are you talking about? Its called an opinion, if someone thinks GR is better than Deliverance then let it be. geez.

[QUOTE=UpperDecker]What are you talking about? Its called an opinion, if someone thinks GR is better than Deliverance then let it be. geez.[/QUOTE]
I know it's his opinion. But opinions are sometimes wrong with evidence. By this I mean the overall quality of the albums compared to eachother. Gr is just not up to par with Opeth's other albums, and thats the honest 100% truth even though some of you won't admit it.

I for one like SOME of the songs on GR, but I find my self skipping to those songs, listening to them, then switching GR out of my CD player for Morningrise or Orchid.

[QUOTE=.:~ Route 1 ~:.]Other's opinions are fine and everything, but saying GR is better than Deliverance is clearly wrong.[/QUOTE]

This is one of the most unbelievably rediculous statements I've ever seen in all the time I've been here.

[QUOTE=cjborton]This is one of the most unbelievably rediculous statements I've ever seen in all the time I've been here.[/QUOTE]

Opinions cant be wrong.

[QUOTE=UpperDecker]Opinions cant be wrong.[/QUOTE]
Yes they can. If the evidence against the opinion is overwhelming and true, the opinion can be wrong.

For example: Nickleback is MUCH more talented than Opeth. (I don't believe this, i'm using it as an example.)

^^^ Now that's my opinion, but it's obviously wrong because of the evidence against it is true.

[QUOTE=.:~ Route 1 ~:.]Other's opinions are fine and everything, but saying GR is better than Deliverance is clearly wrong. GR is definetly sub-par compared to Deliverance.[/QUOTE]

Excuse me? "Clearly" wrong? How on earth am I irrevocably "wrong" for saying such a thing? I'd like to hear your case for this. What precisely was so clearly better about Deliverance than Ghost Reveries? Matter of fact, what's your specific problem with GR?

[QUOTE]Plus, I don't really care that they signed to RR. Their choice.[/QUOTE]

Flynn is the one going on about that, I was responding to him.

[QUOTE]But you have to admit, GR is definetly their worst album.[/QUOTE] I don't have to admit any such thing, since you have provided me with absolutely nothing except vague subjective judgements with regard to compositional "weakness" to prove me wrong. I have yet to see a clearly-outlined case for why GR is so "weak," so "bad," etc. I would love to hear it.

[QUOTE]Also, who says it's bad to be critical of your favorite band? I'd say real fans are the ones who are critical of their favorite band because they only expect the best out of them, and GR is definetly not their best.[/QUOTE]

I'm the last person that's saying that, obviously: clearly you, however, seemed to take all sorts of issues with my criticism of Deliverance and ****ation, so I think you're being a little hypocritical here. What I'm upset about here is the utter failure of the ability to post well and clearly in the context of an argument/debate--the outlining of one's case, the qualification that you are stating your own opinion rather than solid undeniable fact, etc--exhibited by people like you and Flynn.

You have not provided a clear, by-the-numbers criticism of the album, that makes it clear to me what your opinion of it is. Flynn has not cited any sort of evidence from the album's sound or musical trends to support the case that Roadrunner pressured them into making a weak album. I have yet to see a clear, definitive thesis on WHAT precisely is wrong with GR as compared to previous albums, other than vague statements like "duuuur it's weak, their greatness has left them." And finally, saying "HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA seriously, don't post here anymore" to something as harmless as "[B]I think[/B] GR is better than Blackwater Park" is the attitude and posting style of the worst sort of n00bs. Seriously, WTF guys? Do any of you even post anywhere else besides here anymore?

[QUOTE=.:~ Route 1 ~:.]Yes they can. If the evidence against the opinion is overwhelming and true, the opinion can be wrong.

For example: Nickleback is MUCH more talented than Opeth. (I don't believe this, i'm using it as an example.)[/QUOTE]

But it all goes back to subjective taste. A great many people feel that death metal requires no talent or skill to play, since conventional melodies and such things are almost non-existant. Someone may easily think Nickelback are more talented because they write better melodic hooks, catchier songs, etc. So that opinion, DESPITE THE FACT THAT I WOULD VEHEMENTLY DISAGREE, is in NO way "obviously wrong." It is simply an unlikely and perhaps uninformed opinion. However if a person listened to Opeth carefully and cited specific things about them that didn't appeal to them, I would have no problem with someone holding that view.

[QUOTE=Cain]Excuse me? "Clearly" wrong? How on earth am I irrevocably "wrong" for saying such a thing? I'd like to hear your case for this. What precisely was so clearly better about Deliverance than Ghost Reveries? Matter of fact, what's your specific problem with GR?



Flynn is the one going on about that, I was responding to him.

I don't have to admit any such thing, since you have provided me with absolutely nothing except vague subjective judgements with regard to compositional "weakness" to prove me wrong. I have yet to see a clearly-outlined case for why GR is so "weak," so "bad," etc. I would love to hear it.



I'm the last person that's saying that, obviously: clearly you, however, seemed to take all sorts of issues with my criticism of Deliverance and ****ation, so I think you're being a little hypocritical here. What I'm upset about here is the utter failure of the ability to post well and clearly in the context of an argument/debate--the outlining of one's case, the qualification that you are stating your own opinion rather than solid undeniable fact, etc--exhibited by people like you and Flynn.

You have not provided a clear, by-the-numbers criticism of the album, that makes it clear to me what your opinion of it is. Flynn has not cited any sort of evidence from the album's sound or musical trends to support the case that Roadrunner pressured them into making a weak album. I have yet to see a clear, definitive thesis on WHAT precisely is wrong with GR as compared to previous albums, other than vague statements like "duuuur it's weak, their greatness has left them." And finally, saying "HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA seriously, don't post here anymore" to something as harmless as "[B]I think[/B] GR is better than Blackwater Park" is the attitude and posting style of the worst sort of n00bs. Seriously, WTF guys? Do any of you even post anywhere else besides here anymore?[/QUOTE]

My specific problems with GR is that it seems rushed, The keyboards aren't utalized correctly, the songs almost sound pop-ish, most of the songs seem to sound the same, their are only a few unique songs on the album and overall it just seems to be an uninspired album, therefore, making it a "weak" album COMPARED to their past works.

[QUOTE=.:~ Route 1 ~:.]Yes they can. If the evidence against the opinion is overwhelming and true, the opinion can be wrong.

For example: Killing babies is the right thing to do!

^^^ Now that's my opinion, but it's obviously wrong because of the evidence against it is true.[/QUOTE]

Now you're just blowing this completely out of context. In order to support your claim you needed to go from band albums to killing. We're not talking about killing, which in most circumstances is totally wrong. We're talking about music, which in the matter of opinions, is 100% subjective to the liking of the listener.

[QUOTE=.:~ Route 1 ~:.]My specific problems with GR is that it seems rushed[/QUOTE]

How can you tell? What about the music says that to you? The song lengths are too short? They didn't spend enough time writing it?

[QUOTE] The keyboards aren't utalized correctly[/QUOTE]

Well, Per is a new member and I'm willing to bet Opeth aren't the best at utilizing the keyboards in a cohesive manner with their well-established sound yet. It is possible to write that off to mere inexperience in the use of keyboards, and something that will improve over time.

[QUOTE] the songs almost sound pop-ish[/QUOTE]

I fail to see how this is true. There are altogether too many dissonant riffs, growly vocals, and head-turning sections for this to ever be on the level of a "pop-ish" metal album. Motley Crue makes metal that sounds "poppish." Opeth does not, especially not on this album. But that's just my opinion and I'd love to have a citation of specific sequences that sound overly "poppish" to you when compared to their previous efforts.

[QUOTE] most of the songs seem to sound the same [/QUOTE]

This is a little ironic, since many of Opeth's detractors would say this about the songs on every single Opeth album. And in the interest of debate, I would be inclined to agree with that assessment. They've had more or less the same formula for songwriting on every album since Still Life. Would you say that all of those songs on Still Life, BWP, etc. TRULY sounded different, or is it simply possible that you are tired of their formula?

[QUOTE] their are only a few unique songs on the album and overall it just seems to be an uninspired album, therefore, making it a "weak" album COMPARED to their past works.[/QUOTE]

Okay, but you understand that this is all subjective, not factual. But thanks for making your case.

No, I know what Route1 is talking about. I feel that on Harlequin, they dive right into the heaviness of the song too quickly and the rest of the song's sound drags on for too long.

I just liked the structure of Blackwater Park more. ...Well, and the riffs.

[QUOTE=.:~ Route 1 ~:.]My specific problems with GR is that it seems rushed, The keyboards aren't utalized correctly, the songs almost sound pop-ish, most of the songs seem to sound the same, their are only a few unique songs on the album and overall it just seems to be an uninspired album, therefore, making it a "weak" album COMPARED to their past works.[/QUOTE]
I agree completely.

Aww, do I have no shred of respect left here :(.

To Flynn: You apparently haven't read the Bios section of opeth.com:

[QUOTE=Mikeal f'ing Akerfeldt]The title for the record is one of those I came up with just like that, in fact it was the first title I came up with...it was either "Ghost reveries" or "Ghost letters" and reveries sounded cooler. I had intended to do a occult concept piece lyrically and got off to a great start with some downright evil lyrics like "The baying of the hounds" and "Ghost of perdition", then I did "Isolation years" which had nothing to do with the intended concept but I liked it so much I decided to ease up on the concept idea in favour of this one lyric. Why I decided on a occult theme? Well, I've always been intrigued by it, especially Satanism and stuff like that. I studied some books that oddly enough my wife had in her collection like "Servants of Satan" as well as "Witchcraft and Sorcery" + some more.[/QUOTE]

So, it may not be as strong a concept as Still Life and Hearse, but it is a concept album nonetheless.

I can't understand people comparing GR to an album such as Deliverance or even ****ation!

It was publicaly stated that those albums would be themed around the concept of one HEAVY and another SOFT. That would suggest that the old album formula does not apply to these albums as they are intentionaly changed.

Some people didn't buy Deliverance because it was too heavy with too little soft parts, while others didn't buy ****ation because it was too experimental with the soft part technique. In fact ****ation had NO heavy parts whatsoever! This is why I feel comparing GR to those albums is just wrong in the fact that the previous 2 were like someone before said an experiment, and not proper, full length Opeth albums. Yes, they are still part of the repertoir, but still.

Anyway, I don't really see Route 1's argument that well, but it is still his opinion and from now on I'd like to see some respect. FROM BOTH SIDES.

Anyway.

I'm still gonna go ahead and say Ghost Reveries is a concept album. Why else would you put other song titles and reaccuring themes in a album. It has to be some kinda of concept album.

Way to read the post two up from you.

[QUOTE=UpperDecker]I'm still gonna go ahead and say Ghost Reveries is a concept album. Why else would you put other song titles and reaccuring themes in a album. It has to be some kinda of concept album.[/QUOTE]
How can you still think it's a concept album when it's obvious that it isn't? The guy who wrote it said so...