Luc I thought you were Jewish :confused:

I'm not talking about destroying religion either. I'm very happy with my religion. It actually makes me very happy at times.

Jewish blood/heritage.

@Nemesis

[QUOTE=Silenius;15788500]You guys talk about destroying religion but I bet none of you do anything in actuality to go against religion or convince people to stop following religions...[/QUOTE]

As you can see by my elaborate breakdown of the situation, nothing can be done unless it is on the grandest scale. Not supporting it and being able to rise above it all I feel will be reward enough for me. Alternative to that I guess "Pushing the falling" would be sufficient.

Let me correct one thing, "religion" itself is not the culprit. It Is Judaeo-Christian theologies that I'm talking about.

Odhinism is technically a religion, but why would we want to destroy it?

@Apocalypticon

What is wrong with Judeo-Christian theologies?

I don't know exactly what Odhinism is but if it is anything like these effeminate nature worshiping neo-Pagan movements then it would be better off destroyed as well.

You have a point, clarification is of course needed. But do you draw the line at Judaism and Christianity. What about Islam? Religion is force fed to people all over the world. Not just in North America. Bad things have been done in the name of religion all over the world. Are you gonna bring down all the religions that have been a "cause" of evil in our world?

@BRA

[QUOTE=Apocalypticon;15788570]You have a point, clarification is of course needed. But do you draw the line at Judaism and Christianity. What about Islam? Religion is force fed to people all over the world. Not just in North America. Bad things have been done in the name of religion all over the world. Are you gonna bring down all the religions that have been a "cause" of evil in our world?

@BRA[/QUOTE]

Islam is technically a Judaeo-Christian religion, with similar belief structures and a belief in Jesus as a prophet. Therefore, yes, it is included.


More crimes have been committed in the name of Christianity/Judaism/Islam than all other beliefs in the world combined.

Niflheim: Odhinism is what people like Varg practice. Well, he claims a "form" of Odhinism.

That didn't answer my question at all.

Didn't do anything about clarifying what Odhinism is either.

do you know what Wotanism is? same thing as odinism

[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wotanism[/url]

essentially germanic neo-paganism

[quote=Apocalypticon;15788593]That didn't answer my question at all.[/quote]

How did it not? Based on that statistic alone, we can derive the conclusion that the world's undoing and the idiocy of the world is mainly contributed to by the main ideologies.

And Odhinism, as Varg describes it, it a mixture of pagan beliefs and Norse mythology. Seems pretty accurate to me; I'm not entirely clear on the theology in-depth though. However, it clearly has had nowhere near the level of negative impact other ideologies have.

Oh right, yeah I knew what Wotanism is. It is also quite racist and pro-Aryan/anti-Jew so lol @ BRA for being a hypocrite for supporting it.

Ok so I'm gonna restate my question as you clearly didn't read it the first or second times.

Are you gonna destroy every religion that has ever been cited as a cause for a crime/war/genocide etc.?

I did not say I supported it. I said it's not the main cause of concern.



Apocalypticon:
Since 90% of that would be caused by Judaeo-Christian theologies, yes.

^^^Hence why my previous statement did indeed answer your question.

hey guys

[url]http://www.sputnikmusic.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=61[/url]

[QUOTE=Niflheim II;15788532]As you can see by my elaborate breakdown of the situation, nothing can be done unless it is on the grandest scale. Not supporting it and being able to rise above it all I feel will be reward enough for me. Alternative to that I guess "Pushing the falling" would be sufficient.[/QUOTE]

Yes but you can also challenge religious people to explain why they are religious. Like just in a scenario like school, half the people who say they are christians and go to church don't even agree with what the bible says, so why are they following this religion based on the bible? I bet half of christians in the USA don't even believe in the religion and you just have to make them realize it.

[QUOTE]You have a point, clarification is of course needed. But do you draw the line at Judaism and Christianity. What about Islam? Religion is force fed to people all over the world. Not just in North America. Bad things have been done in the name of religion all over the world. Are you gonna bring down all the religions that have been a "cause" of evil in our world?[/QUOTE]

Well if you ask me Islam is currently the most militant religion with a small fundamentalist/fanatical base which is very dangerous. hasn't always been like this of course, during the Middle Ages Islamic scholars and doctors contributed much to general knowledge.

[quote=Silenius;15789014]

Well if you ask me Islam is currently the most militant religion with a small fundamentalist/fanatical base which is very dangerous. hasn't always been like this of course, during the Middle Ages Islamic scholars and doctors contributed much to general knowledge.[/quote]

If you think the Islamic fanatical base is small, you are mistaken and naive, and therefore just as dangerous to us. They are practically overrunning the world, nearly at the point of challenging Christianity's claim to stronghold.

As far as your wish to "reason" with people, that is exactly the kind of "tolerant" and "liberal" mindset that created the mess in the first place. You cannot reason with anything that attempts to destroy what you are. You cannot reason with something that hates everything about you and your beliefs. You cannot reason with something that you are trying to destroy. Hence the word "destroy".

More Importantly, though, if we "reason" with them, it's equivalent to conversion by the masses...sound familiar? We become the very thing we claim to war against. We reduce ourselves to hypocrisy.

Will the body be abandoned? Will it?
Improvement is no redemption.
Unbelief is no diversion.
Drenched in blood, soaked in grace
Take this body.

A sound that has no sight.
2,000 years,
2,000 years until they crash never begging for return.

I was stabbed through the neck.
You will take this body, you will take this there for the land.
There is not a separation.
You will take this body, you will take this there.
We will... we will... we'll run straight to the murder.
We'll run... we'll run straight to the murder.

[QUOTE=Invicta_Veritas;15789178]If you think the Islamic fanatical base is small, you are mistaken and naive, and therefore just as dangerous to us. They are practically overrunning the world, nearly at the point of challenging Christianity's claim to stronghold.[/QUOTE]

You're an idiot. The extremist Islamic base is small. They aren't overrunning the world. Islam is the fastest growing religion for a reason, and I'll hint you here: it's not because a small fraction of it's followers manipulate poetic and intentionally contextual and vague text to support their outlandish and religiously contradictory beliefs. The extremist base is far smaller than anyone seems to understand. Then again, those speaking out against it tend to not understand it at all.

And challenging the Christian stronghold? What the **** does that mean? Christianity is supposed to be interpreted as sort of an re-interpreted take on Judaism (hopefully you understand what I'm saying here; it's late and I haven't slept in a while), and Islam is simply the third and supposed final take on God's word. Hindsight, my man. The ideologies are nearly identical so it overtaking a "Christian stronghold" is a stupid and ridiculous notion. Especially considering the billions of people converting to Islam are doing it peacefully, rather than forcefully as was done with Christianity.

And, once again:
[url]http://www.sputnikmusic.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=61[/url]

If you're so keen on talking religion and so keen on making asses of yourselves, at least do it in a place where you can discuss it more appropriately, rather than ****ing up this thread with some **** you learned on CNN. Nobody cares, seriously.

I know you're a Pagan or whatever. But leave the religious discussion for a forum more suited. That, or, I dont know, learn the subject matter.

[QUOTE]More Importantly, though, if we "reason" with them, it's equivalent to conversion by the masses...sound familiar? We become the very thing we claim to war against. We reduce ourselves to hypocrisy.[/QUOTE]
See, like this. This just makes fun of itself. Take it to PWNI

Current Islamic conversions are peaceful because of the modern era, wasn't so during the middle ages though.

Seeing as how a central part of black metal is ideology (or conflict thereof), I don't see why you're getting so huffy about our discussion of it herein.

[QUOTE=i am the robots;15789234]Current Islamic conversions are peaceful because of the modern era, wasn't so during the middle ages though.[/QUOTE]
Depends on whether you consider uprisings and defence to be unpeaceful. It's all in how you interpret it.

It's like interpreting the New Testament and acting as if it's anti-gay marriage when, in all seriousness, it's essentially anti-marriage. Then, put in the context of it presumably being written pre-execution, it makes more sense. It equates homosexuality to the vice of eating shellfish; it's context we dont have and can't practice.

[QUOTE]Seeing as how a central part of black metal is ideology (or conflict thereof), I don't see why you're getting so huffy about our discussion of it herein.[/QUOTE]
Because this has gone far beyond its intent. You're not discussing the ideology behind music anymore, you're all making laborious statements you can't support. It's gotten far out of touch and that's more than obvious.

[QUOTE=Cocaine;15789248]Depends on whether you consider uprisings and defence to be unpeaceful. It's all in how you interpret it.[/QUOTE]
Invasions and ****. Both Christians and Muslims did it, it wasn't a one sided thing. It's as completely retarded to act as though all Christians were forcibly converted as it is to act as though there weren't forced Islamic conversions.

[QUOTE=i am the robots;15789263]Invasions and ****. :/[/QUOTE]

Still a matter of context that, while reasonable to discuss, is meaningless to this thread. Which is why I say it's strayed off course.

Derp.

Read My Edit Fag

[QUOTE]Both Christians and Muslims did it, it wasn't a one sided thing. It's as completely retarded to act as though all Christians were forcibly converted as it is to act as though there weren't forced Islamic conversions.[/QUOTE]
No, I agree. That was actually my point. Forceful conversions aren't actually based on any facet of the religion. I wasn't weighing them or saying one is guiltier than the other (though, given the right information, you could make that call yourself). Don't sweat

[quote=Cocaine;15789248]

Because this has gone far beyond its intent. You're not discussing the ideology behind music anymore, you're all making laborious statements you can't support. It's gotten far out of touch and that's more than obvious.[/quote]

Let me bring it back into perspective for you then.

These ideologies are the very driving force behind the suppression of black metal, and anything related. Anything that is deemed as "dark" or "evil" in art (including black metal) has routinely been persecuted by government and church (and media controlled thereby), severely inhibiting freedom of art and expression which these supposedly "liberal" governments swear so much to protect.

The arsons of Europe in the 90s are a prime example. Granted, the original acts were incredibly foolish and misguided, but the governments used it as an excuse to go on a witch hunt, explicitely suppressing anything percieved as a threat. The Norweigan government blatantly suppressed black metal music for quite some time under the notion that it was "evil" according to thier policies (read: beliefs). Burzum material to this day is actually not allowed to be freely marketed in that country, to the last of my knowledge.

In summary, this ideological conflict directly affects black metal, making it relevant to this thread.

I was listening to Teen Cthulhu earlier and while the mix of Power ViolencyHardcorestuff with Black Metal is cool, the keyboards are just totally roffle.

[QUOTE]The arsons of Europe in the 90s are a prime example. Granted, the original acts were incredibly foolish and misguided, but the governments used it as an excuse to go on a witch hunt, explicitely suppressing anything percieved as a threat. The Norweigan government blatantly suppressed black metal music for quite some time under the notion that it was "evil" according to thier beliefs. Burzum material to this day is actually not allowed to be freely marketed in that country, to the last of my knowledge.

In summary, this ideological conflict directly affects black metal, making it relevant to this thread.[/QUOTE]
I wasn't seeing this discussed at all.

On that note: The burnings were horrible. But they were treated harshly for a reason: regardless of faith, they were cherished and long-standing buildings. In fact, I've got reason to believe many of them were initially pagan-related before the Crusades, but I have nothing to back it up on.

Burzum is barred, if that's still true, because of Varg's legacy and complete idiocy. Harsh, for sure, but not entirely unexpected, given his lunacy and supposed influence over youth and fans. Just look at all the dolts that lolfully act as if his essays and writings are anything but an amateur lolfest.