[QUOTE=Merkaba]

My usable range is from about the second E below middle c (if I were to do something slow and/or crooney) and up to C6, the second above middle C. To do anything up here would be slow also, or only as a trill or grace notes. Slow operatics maybe like Jeff buckley's Corpus Christi Carol. I start falsetto right around high A. Typical baritone. I wouldnt feel comfortable singing much falsetto past that G5 or A5. With a good warm up and practice I can get whistle notes all the way through to the next C, C7. By the way, if you've never heard of Adam Lopez check him out. World record holder. The poppy stuff is not my thing but the classical is cool. And the way he can make his voice sound like a violin is , well Incredible. go here. And scroll down. Be sure to listen to Georgia Brown as well. That stuff really makes me want to work on my whistle notes whenever I hear it. Dammit. [url]http://www.dutchdivas.net/frames/highC.html[/url]Warning! Incredible voices on this page! Things like male soprano's in head voice! Warning.[/QUOTE]


Yeah I've been checking out that site for quite a while. Very good site, and some unbelievable voices. The really low notes are also interesting - a phenomenon i believe is called 'vocal fry'.

But you have to tell me, that audio clip of male-soprano (contradiction??) David Newman.. it says he sings that all in head voice. That REALLY sounds like falsetto to me! Very high pitched and airy sounding, like, not a lot of substance behind it. What do you think?

Btw, impressive range, particularly that you can do the whistle register. Not only can i not do whistle register, but something i wouldn't even know how to begin doing lol

Merkaba, what's your top head voice note? I think you included falsetto in that range description, right?. A C6 in full voice is :eek:.

My whistle notes are improving a bit, but I'm not working on them at the moment seeing that I won't use them as much as head/mix voice. I can now get to an E6 comfortabley, but still it sounds like a squeak.

By the way, I know a guy over the internet who can sing a C8, possibly even higher. I know it's insane, I think I have a voice clip somewhere.

"I start falsetto right around high A"

This would insinuate that his highest head voice note would generally be G# above middle C.

sup merkaba, I listented to your voice recordings, very nice tutorial :D

Anyway I can sing to like E5 or F5 if I pull chest(go louder), but
if I'm just singing quietly I seem to have this bridge/transition at C5.

Then I have this thing above it where it sounds like im singing opera or
something, is that falsetto or something? I've been doing humming and stuff
trying to find head voice, shouldnt it be right after the chest voice ends
without straining(C5 for me).

I need a few tips. I read up all the required reading and have started to put it into practice, but I still have a few pitfalls. I'll describe it as best I can point by point, and if needed I can send uploads of particular songs I reference.

First off, I won't be able to get real vocal lessons until this fall, which is kind of a drag. Until then, I've been trying to ease into the routine, building up a clean voice until I could scream comfortably.

Inspired by Wuthering Heights' vocalist, Nils Patrick Johansson, I've been trying to build up a variety of styles and sounds to better express a variety of emotions. I'm a bass/baritone, which has made opening up my head voice a challenge, and my range is still somewhat limited. To compensate, I've been experimenting with a crooning clean singing style, harsh vocals, screams, and growls. I've decided to adamantly avoid the Cradle of Filth style of inhaling while vocalizing as I'd rather not step into territory that inherently risky. Even if I don't pursue singing as more than a hobby, I still have a powerful, distinctive speaking voice that I've already been taking great precautions to avoid damaging as it is a big asset to me.

My clean vocals are progressing well, though I'm still having trouble with falsetto and vibrato. I really could use some added advice in building up my head voice, as well as figuring out the source of vibrato so that I can actually do it right. I also have a hard rock voice that basically is a sort of lupine snarl. I'm fine for the first songs, but then I start to notice my vocal cords getting fatigued. Am I still just carrying too much tensions in my throat?

For harsh vocals, the rasp sometimes goes out on me toward the end of a line and it's more of a surly clean vocal style. At the moment, I have a sound like a deeper voiced Alexi Laiho or Petri Lindroos, but one bad habit I'm still trying to break is the fact that my tongue keep reaching toward the back of my throat and constricting the sound.

For my screams, progress is a little slower. Time and again I would come close to blowing my voice out and would stop at the first sign of any pain. I managed to get Michale Graves' scream from Helena by The Misfits, but the top and back of my throat keep tensing up creating a lot of uncomfortable pressure. Are there any specific exercises I can use to get past this?

The growling is a similar issue. I have a decent mid-range sound, but almost no low end. It comes out way too airy and with very little guttural rasp by comparison.

On the positive side, it's very easy for me to transition between styles, and it's becoming easier and easier every day to shift from my chest voice to the notes resonating in the nasal passages.

I just listen to Merkabas voice samples and I have a question. How loud are you singing?

To me it sounds kind of quieter than what I might expect from an all out scream, is that just due to the recording or are yo keeping the volume quite low intentionally?

I was just wondring if maybe I'm wasting energy trying to go loud to make it sound powerful and all out, Into a mic will a good deal of compression help it sound loud even if its pretty held back?

[QUOTE=GDan]I just listen to Merkabas voice samples and I have a question. How loud are you singing?

To me it sounds kind of quieter than what I might expect from an all out scream, is that just due to the recording or are yo keeping the volume quite low intentionally?

I was just wondring if maybe I'm wasting energy trying to go loud to make it sound powerful and all out, Into a mic will a good deal of compression help it sound loud even if its pretty held back?[/QUOTE]
I wasnt too loud. I was doing most of that stuff at around 2 or so am. But it was optimally loud enough for a mic. I mean I wouldve pushed a little more If I were doing a serious recording, but with your mic at a decent level you dont even have to worry about compression....unless youre heading into a studio...in my opinion. If you havent sang into a mic in a while, in like a studio or stage setup, you'll probably realize that you dont have to push alot once you do. Maybe I'll post another if I can ever get off of my a[I]s[/I]s.

hello...ive been doing my best to keep up with your little lessons things, and id like to say thank sfor the help.

ive been toying around with vocals for a bit just for something new really..ive been playing guitar for ages and adding vocals just makes it that much more enjoyable. however i dont know how to find my own voice. i can sing along to other artists (usually dallas green, radiohead..things of this sort) but i dont know how to find my own voice..the one that suits my vocal chords the best. im also having a hard time controlling my voice....somedays its good..other days its bad enough to make me put down the guitar haha.

so ill keep on your warm up examples and such and see where i can get with that and any extra info would be much appreciated.

thanks

hey merkaba,

a while back i asked you to check out my bands page and let me know what you thought of the vocals that i sung in the song that was on the page... Well we've redone the vocals mixed it in with the existing instruments. I tried to do some of the things you said and i think it does sound better than the first effort. if you could have a listen and tell me what you reckon that'd be great. the website is [url]http://www.myspace.com/opshopninja[/url] and it's the song 'colourblind'... thanks man.

[QUOTE=are_we_art_fags]hello...ive been doing my best to keep up with your little lessons things, and id like to say thank sfor the help.

ive been toying around with vocals for a bit just for something new really..ive been playing guitar for ages and adding vocals just makes it that much more enjoyable. however i dont know how to find my own voice. i can sing along to other artists (usually dallas green, radiohead..things of this sort) but i dont know how to find my own voice..the one that suits my vocal chords the best. im also having a hard time controlling my voice....somedays its good..other days its bad enough to make me put down the guitar haha.

so ill keep on your warm up examples and such and see where i can get with that and any extra info would be much appreciated.

thanks[/QUOTE]
If you can't find your own voice right now just continue to practice the best you can by singing others. For some that start off singing by mimmicking its the only way. Its like training wheels. I was the same way. Over time and various influences you find out what you can and can't do which helps you settle out. You can always practice by just not trying to match the singer youre mimmicking. I do it now when singing stuff out of my range because if you try to match everthing you will usually end up tensing things up. When I relax and say just sing it in your own voice, I ALWAYS, ALWAYS do better. Just continue to practice and relax and it will come when its ready. At least youre getting experience and working the cords. Again don't be afraid to push your limits as long as you have no hoarseness and no pain.

[QUOTE=adz_18]hey merkaba,

a while back i asked you to check out my bands page and let me know what you thought of the vocals that i sung in the song that was on the page... Well we've redone the vocals mixed it in with the existing instruments. I tried to do some of the things you said and i think it does sound better than the first effort. if you could have a listen and tell me what you reckon that'd be great. the website is [url]http://www.myspace.com/opshopninja[/url] and it's the song 'colourblind'... thanks man.[/QUOTE]
Dude, from what I remember that, to me, sounds twice as good. Keep it up. Just think where you'll be after a while! I can tell youre working to hold the notes a little more stronger with some more support. Keep the lower jaw loose and come from the gut. Don't be afraid to sing even harder,(a bit over time)without rasp, and it will probably get even better. If you experience hoarseness or pain then you know you need to back off and reevaluate. Keep at it! Good job dude! :thumb:

[QUOTE=Merkaba]
Dude, from what I remember that, to me, sounds twice as good. Keep it up. Just think where you'll be after a while! I can tell youre working to hold the notes a little more stronger with some more support. Keep the lower jaw loose and come from the gut. Don't be afraid to sing even harder,(a bit over time)without rasp, and it will probably get even better. If you experience hoarseness or pain then you know you need to back off and reevaluate. Keep at it! Good job dude! :thumb:[/QUOTE]

Cooool lol, that's always good to hear! Yeah I'm still trying to work on coming from the gut more. I think it's getting better but yeh still need to work on it. I'll keep doing the exercises you have outlined in other threads and hopefully things can keep improving. Thanks for your support/suggestions and time man!

Oh yeah, I've been wondering if you could clarify this for me.... on that website [url]http://www.dutchdivas.net/frames/highC.html[/url] there's an audio clip of male-soprano (contradiction??) David Newman.. it says he sings that all in head voice. That REALLY sounds like falsetto to me! Very high pitched and airy sounding, like, not a lot of substance behind it. I generally think of head voice as highish in pitch but also with power, eg. chorus of 'livin on a prayer' by bon jovi, or many things sung by chris cornell or freddie mercury... Am I correct or am I missing something?

[QUOTE=adz_18]Oh yeah, I've been wondering if you could clarify this for me.... on that website [url]http://www.dutchdivas.net/frames/highC.html[/url] there's an audio clip of male-soprano (contradiction??) David Newman.. it says he sings that all in head voice. That REALLY sounds like falsetto to me! Very high pitched and airy sounding, like, not a lot of substance behind it. I generally think of head voice as highish in pitch but also with power, eg. chorus of 'livin on a prayer' by bon jovi, or many things sung by chris cornell or freddie mercury... Am I correct or am I missing something?[/QUOTE]
hehe, well I wouldnt really call it a contradiction, just a rarity. When I first heard it I thought the same thing but after trying to, what I call, study it I think it is head. But If you go to his site he has a few samples and Its easier to hear that its true voice.

Hey Merk, what's new? :)

I got myself a vocal mic, an MXL 990. And a Behringer tube preamp for the phantom power, and the warm tube sound. I [i]love[/i] it! Now I just need to find a vocal teacher damnit :angry:

So I'm still having trouble moving the larynx around. I finished reading the Rock N Roll Singers Survival Guide book, it gave some advice on that, but I couldn't seem to stop it from moving. =( It did help with other tension though; now I realize that raising the eyebrows, tensing the forehead, jaw, etc... it's all bad! I, myself, had a habit of raising the eyebrows, as well as my chin, on higher notes.

So you think a vocal teacher could really help me with this problem? Or, should I just buy a few more books =P Like Jim Gillette's "Metal Power" or whatever, it seems like that might direct me toward the style I like... plus I know that guy has one hell of a range!

Yeah fair enough, I might go check that out.

Speaking of rarities, check this out:
[url]http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/4853432.stm[/url] and then click on the link where it says "Listen to the "last castrato", Alessandro Moreschi, recorded in 1902."

As the link suggests, it's the only known recording of a castrato. However, from many accounts this guy was by no means the best castrato going around, in fact many said he was just average or mediocre... but still, there is something about this recording that is just really haunting, even depressing.

and F**K that must have hurt!

rawr

[QUOTE=adz_18]Yeah fair enough, I might go check that out.

Speaking of rarities, check this out:
[url]http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/4853432.stm[/url] and then click on the link where it says "Listen to the "last castrato", Alessandro Moreschi, recorded in 1902."

As the link suggests, it's the only known recording of a castrato. However, from many accounts this guy was by no means the best castrato going around, in fact many said he was just average or mediocre... but still, there is something about this recording that is just really haunting, even depressing.

and F**K that must have hurt![/QUOTE]
Yea, when I first heard about the castrati I thought it was fake. Like it was just a joke or more of an "urban legend". Then I would see more and more and finally looked into it and thought..yes...ouch. That would suck, no slight pun intended. Talk about getting whored out by your parents!

I checked out that link. I kept thinking, gosh it doesnt sound all that great for opera....then my brain would say....its a 44 year old man...then I would say...holy shlt! I could imagine how he might have sounded at say, 24. And to think that he was just the "run of the mill" castrati.

[QUOTE=Peg Dizzler]Hey Merk, what's new? :)

I got myself a vocal mic, an MXL 990. And a Behringer tube preamp for the phantom power, and the warm tube sound. I [i]love[/i] it! Now I just need to find a vocal teacher damnit :angry:

So I'm still having trouble moving the larynx around. I finished reading the Rock N Roll Singers Survival Guide book, it gave some advice on that, but I couldn't seem to stop it from moving. =( It did help with other tension though; now I realize that raising the eyebrows, tensing the forehead, jaw, etc... it's all bad! I, myself, had a habit of raising the eyebrows, as well as my chin, on higher notes.

So you think a vocal teacher could really help me with this problem? Or, should I just buy a few more books =P Like Jim Gillette's "Metal Power" or whatever, it seems like that might direct me toward the style I like... plus I know that guy has one hell of a range![/QUOTE]Woa! Sounds like a decent setu up. You'll have to post some samples soon!
Same ol' same ol' here. I'm still looking for a freaking band! Everyone either wants to do hardcore or punk/pop. Sux.

I wouldnt worry about the larynx. I mean it will limit you a bit, but remember its gonna move, especially as you go up in pitch. And if youre in falsetto and trying to give it any resonance its gonna rise a little. I would say a vocal teacher probably wouldnt make it there chief concern and would be worried more about how you sound, and could probably tell if your larynx is affecting your vowels by how you sound in and around your natural range. But yes the tension thing is more of a thing to watch out for and work on.

[QUOTE=Merkaba]Woa! Sounds like a decent setu up. You'll have to post some samples soon!
Same ol' same ol' here. I'm still looking for a freaking band! Everyone either wants to do hardcore or punk/pop. Sux.

I wouldnt worry about the larynx. I mean it will limit you a bit, but remember its gonna move, especially as you go up in pitch. And if youre in falsetto and trying to give it any resonance its gonna rise a little. I would say a vocal teacher probably wouldnt make it there chief concern and would be worried more about how you sound, and could probably tell if your larynx is affecting your vowels by how you sound in and around your natural range. But yes the tension thing is more of a thing to watch out for and work on.[/QUOTE]
Cool! Thanks for the advice, mang.

Still lookin for a band eh? Hardcore and pop-punk? What else is new.. seems like "those kind" of bands are a dime a dozen across our country.

Well I haven't recorded any vox through my new mic, at least not any recording takes that I saved. :p
But I just got done recording a reeeally bad drum take. If you're interested. I'm actually very impressed by the sound quality!! The mic is just kind of pointing at the drumset over top...

Anyway, I just got this $60 drumkit 2 days ago, never played drums much before so yer I truly suck. The kit is the biggest piece of junk I've ever seen, cymbals are all busted, no hi-hat pedal, no bass pedal... so yes, I gotta kick drum, quite literally. Forgive me. :( haha
[url]http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=download&ufid=579904B921D5CAAA[/url]

[QUOTE=PrimaryOrange]Hey Merkaba,
New to this forum, was browsing the net while at work for some singing tips and came accross this site.
After reading what you wrote you pointed out alot of things not many did when trying to give me tips in the past.
Im a songwriter/singer, and ive noticed my singing has changed drastically in the last year or so. I think im picking up bad habbits while singing.
I listen to some old demo recordings and compare them to recent recordings, and although the playing of the music is better, and sound like i have much more confidence in my voice than the beginning, im not able to hit the notes I used to, or without great strain.

If you'd like to have a listen to a few bedroom demo's of just me and the acoustic, ranging from 3 years ago to present, and give some suggestions or insight on the situation.

Email me if you are interested.

Thanks again for a great thread,

Brandon
Primary Orange
[email]primaryorange@rogers.com[/email][/QUOTE]

Well I'd rather you post them here. That way others can chime in, and plus I'm usually so busy that it kinda clutters me up, or i would think so. I don't think I've ever emailed anyone off of this site. Not that I wouldnt but try to post them here or to a download site.

bump...

hey merkaba, do you think you could help me w/ learning to scream without me having to come on these forums? im not very much a computer person to come and check this stuff so often

my AIM is Feelthefunkk and my email is guitarist4life75@gmail.


i left a post here a long time ago and they told me to come here, but i'd rather you just listen to a really horrible track and tell me what sounds wrong.

Hey merk, I've read all your stuff faithfully and have been practicing it for over a year now. About 2 months ago I finally got a band together doing some metal. Now my falsetto screams are effortless and sound awesome, but all the guys hate it when I do some Slipknot-ish screams. They like them when I "balls to the wall" scream, but it kills my voice and often leaves me mute for a day or two if i do it for a whole set. When i do proper technique they tell me it sounds strained and gay, even though I'm much more relaxed and not straining.

Basically, does a scream as good as Corey Taylor have to be born with you or can you somehow develop it? My singing teacher has been no help, she just says "uh, heres a scale, lets strengthen your falsetto" which makes no sense to me...

this is kinda turnin into a different thread i know. great job merk. those links helped a lot with my singing. anyone agree there should be a vocal sub-forum?

[QUOTE=panthersfan16]Hey merk, I've read all your stuff faithfully and have been practicing it for over a year now. About 2 months ago I finally got a band together doing some metal. Now my falsetto screams are effortless and sound awesome, but all the guys hate it when I do some Slipknot-ish screams. They like them when I "balls to the wall" scream, but it kills my voice and often leaves me mute for a day or two if i do it for a whole set. When i do proper technique they tell me it sounds strained and gay, even though I'm much more relaxed and not straining.

Basically, does a scream as good as Corey Taylor have to be born with you or can you somehow develop it? My singing teacher has been no help, she just says "uh, heres a scale, lets strengthen your falsetto" which makes no sense to me...[/QUOTE]
Thought I had replied earlier. I dont think you have to be born with it. But you will have to have or develop a strong system. Some people just have fallen into doing it luckily or just because. I always say the best way to learn and know the feel of a strong scream like that is sing in high head, normally. And adding more and more difficulty/push while trying to keep the tone. If youre mute for a day or half a day youre really hurting yourself. Remember that these "balls to the wall" screams often times sound way way more harsh then they really are because of the technique. You can get a good scream without 100% push. Most vocal teachers arent going down a rock path because its not the best thing for the cords. You should look for a teacher that specializes in aggressive or rock styles.

[QUOTE=Psycho182]hey merkaba, do you think you could help me w/ learning to scream without me having to come on these forums? im not very much a computer person to come and check this stuff so often

my AIM is Feelthefunkk and my email is guitarist4life75@gmail.


i left a post here a long time ago and they told me to come here, but i'd rather you just listen to a really horrible track and tell me what sounds wrong.[/QUOTE]
Wouldnt be fair because I've turned down so many others for "personal" help over email. I just don't have the time. Plus I'd just be repeating what I usually repeat in here for everyone else.

bump...tired of looking for the dam thing. Just added it to my menu bar though. :cool:

Hey Merkaba. Been letting go abit on the screams, and found a fuller sound. There are some clean recordings here: [url]http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=388240[/url]
And, some older ones to add contrast. There's also a few songs I wouldn't mind comments on, but I know where I stand in terms of singing. Not so well. The title "Almost here" was from awhile back, it's in a weak head tone, and the new ones are in a weak chest tone, but I'm out of practice, it's been a month since my last lesson, and I haven't been practicing. It's more like an excuse for my poor voice. Sorry. Anyways, I'd love some feedback. Merci en avance.

this is an awesome thread

[QUOTE=tatsu]Hey Merkaba. Been letting go abit on the screams, and found a fuller sound. There are some clean recordings here: [url]http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=388240[/url]
And, some older ones to add contrast. There's also a few songs I wouldn't mind comments on, but I know where I stand in terms of singing. Not so well. The title "Almost here" was from awhile back, it's in a weak head tone, and the new ones are in a weak chest tone, but I'm out of practice, it's been a month since my last lesson, and I haven't been practicing. It's more like an excuse for my poor voice. Sorry. Anyways, I'd love some feedback. Merci en avance.[/QUOTE]
Sorry so late....
The screams sound good. I would practice on getting the same tone with less push...sounds like youre straining a bit but only you know that. As far as the singing, Practice motor boats. Youre not pressurizing the lungs,diaphragm enough it sounds like to me, causing the sound to be thinner in some spots. Sounds like you've got a good set up. I bet a few lessons would set you right. You need a bit of pitch correction but that comes with time and practice.

sorry if this has been asked before, but when i scream properly (dont even know if i am or not), where in the throat should i be able to feel it? again, sorry if im beating a dead horse.

Dont think about your throat. You probably wont feel much from a well placed note. You'll feel more in your chest or your head as previously stated by a few of us. Sometimes I'll hit a head note that is almost uncomfortable due to the resonance in my head. If I didnt have upstairs and downstairs neighbors now I'd post some. Theres one note thats in one of my favorite esthero songs thats not all that high but is wonderful to sing. I may post that. Anyways...think more about a loose lower jaw as your sound manipulator. And think about your diaphragm. If youre unfamiliar go to the first page and look at coming from the gut, and do those lip trills/motorboats.

Try to think about the feeling of saying Ahh for the doctor when you sing.

Speaking of head notes (I don't know terminology very well), would that be the higher notes? Like the ones that make my eyes feel a bit of pressure, but nothing else?

That happens when I scream really high.

[QUOTE=Eleventeen]Speaking of head notes (I don't know terminology very well), would that be the higher notes? Like the ones that make my eyes feel a bit of pressure, but nothing else?

That happens when I scream really high.[/QUOTE]
Youre just not gonna feel the resonance in a scream due to all the pressure and jumbled vibrations of the rasp. And no it wont feel like pressure. More of a vibration, around the temple area. Youre probably just feeling the results of the internal pressure of pushing hard. Like you would when taking a dump....a dry, non raison bran dump. :cool:

i've been giving the screaming/growling thing a go, and about the only thing i can pull off is very low black metal barks, (and also chris cornell style singing, i sang Cochise at a gig recently, pretty much hit all the notes), so im going to concentrate on melodic singing.

just as a pointer, bearing in mind i can sing note-perfect (according to those who've heard me) "easy" by commodores (altho i sing to the faith no more cover), what other songs can you recommend for strengthening my vocals and range?

Why isnt this thread stickied ??? It really should be , it seams to be quite helpfull.

yea it used to be, along with a few other popular threads. The mod gods changed some stuff around. I might ask if it can get stickied again. But we do have the official singing thread uptop now soo...

Ummm... Merk, I've posted an example of my scream on the offical voice thread thing. I was kinda confused on which on to post it on. Just to let you.

I just need advice. Lol

Hey Merkaba, do you have any examples of you singing normally, as opposed to screaming?

hey i got a question man :)

i sing with some rasp, against me! style. but to be able to do get the raspy sound, i have to be singing for a while first. usualy after singing a few songs at the very top of my range the raspy stuff just naturaly sets in. but ive found that even if i warm up for an hour i cant get the rasp, i have to sing high and really loud for 10-15 minutes before i can get any kind of rasp.

this is lame because the only way i can warm up for a show or something is to go into the bathroom or something and yell randomly for like 10 mins. which can be embarrising and im guessing not to great for my voice.

so is there any way i get this sound without just screaming my *** off?

thanks :)