interesting thread, i've never looked that hard at adverts but know I seem how some of them go wrong

maybe I'll have a gander on the net for bad ad's later hah

this thread is hillarious....

[quote]We're a team of produers, and we love music. Plus we are all very experienced in producing, and recording. Now a lot off other labels would make you come to them, but we will come to you, or you can come to or base studio in [B][location info redacted][/B]. what ever you decide is more convent for you we are here to accommodate your needs. so call us now and set up an appointment we also have flat prices for whole demos and albums. ask for [B][name and phone info redacted] [/B]or email us for more info.[/quote]



I don't normally talk about spelling and grammar in these ads, since they're usually pretty bad, but this is one where I think the point needs to be made: if you can't write a coherent sentence, get somebody who can. An occasional spelling error is probably forgiveable on craigslist. But after about 2 spelling/grammar errors in a 15-sentence ad, you've pretty much given a crappy first impression.

The other thing that really gets me about this ad is that there isn't any concrete info provided. The title [I]does[/I] happen to specify "STUDIO RATES AS LOW AS $10 AN HOUR ALL YEAR ROUND," but that doesn't say what sort of client could get that rate. Presumably some projects (if not most) would be more expensive.

Also, are they producers or a recording studio? Those aren't necessarily the same thing. Are they a label, or a recording studio? Again, not necessarily the same. This is totally relevent, because different roles will have different long-term interests in the project. There's a big difference between hiring an engineer for a session and recording for a fledgling label.

[QUOTE=Moseph;17619289]Not a studio this time, somebody looking to form a band.

Title is "S[SIZE=2]EMI PRO/PRO MUSICIANS WANT TO START A PROG METAL/DOOM/SLUDGE BAND???"[/SIZE]





Just in general, this isn't the kind of thing you want to post if you're looking for somebody to play with. Essentially, you go out of your way to eliminate as many possible musicians in your immediate area as possible, without really specifying what you [I]do[/I] want.

The age thing in particular is especially strange. Here's a tip, don't require that any applicant be between 25-35 when you yourself are 34. What, you're gonna quit the band in the next 24 months on principle?

Also, telling us who is and isn't influential is insulting, and in some cases completely wrong. At minimum, Radiohead have influenced a metric crap-ton of musicians. Clearly style wasn't considered in those lists either: The Cars are obviously pop; Megadeth is clearly a shred lead guitar band; about 80% of the "influential" list are easily called mainstream (which the poster said was a no-no).[/QUOTE]

Sounds like a big joke to me, to be honest. Y'know, a few metalheads messing around and acting like elitists :lol: I could be wrong though

Okay, this one is titled "COLLABOS/PRODUCER/STUDIO NEEDED"

Let that sink in for a second. Maybe re-read it. What do you think the point of the ad is?

Okay, here's the actual text of it...

[quote]STUDIO:
WE CHARGE $10 PER HR....
CHEAPEST DEAL YOU CAN GET NOW A DAYS
WE PRODUCE YOUR MUSIC..
WE WON'T TRY TO CHANGE YOUR OWN UNIQUE SOUND

IF YOU WANT TO COLLAB WITH ANY OF OUR 20 ARTISTS..
THERE IS A $5 FEE...ONLY IF YOU ARE REFERING A FRIEND WHO'S PAYING
AND THERE WITH YOU, WILL YOU BE EXEMPT FROM THE COLLAB FEE.

SO DOING 4 SONGS FOR YOUR ALBUM OR MIXTAPE MAY ONLY COME
UP TO $10-$20 NOT INCLUDING PROFESSIONAL R&B/RAP COLLABS WITH OUR ARTISTS.
WE ARE LOCATED IN [B][city name redacted][/B].
A FEW MINUTES WALK FROM THE STATION ITSELF.

WE HAVE PROTOOLS SOFTWARE (USED BY YOUNGMONEY/CASHMONEY/GUNIT/AND MORE)
WE ARE NOT HERE TO BREAK YOUR POCKETS.

WILL EVEN DO YOUR MIXTAPE/ALBUM COVER FOR AN ADDITIONAL $20
GIVE ME A CALL OR TXT TO: [B][contact info redacted][/B] [/quote]



Just to get it out of the way, we do have the usual: bad spelling (including homonym confusion), bad grammar, all caps text, misspelling "Pro Tools." None of that is instilling my faith that this $10/hour operation has their act together.

But hopefully you also noticed, like I did, that the title suggests they're [I]looking[/I] for somebody/someplace for collaboration and recording, instead of [I]offering[/I] this, which is what the text actually says. That to me is the first thing that's confusing about the ad.

The second big thing is that, even at these pretty low prices, I have no idea what their pricing structure actually is. Specifically, how does this "COLLAB FEE" work? You need to bring the referral in on-site, and they have to pay for your session too? Do you both have to pay? That part isn't very clear to me. The possible confusion between "there" and "they're" that seems to exist doesn't help matters either.

Lastly, while there is indeed a train station in their city, the redacted info doesn't make mention of it, and the next line references it in a way that is confusing if you weren't already aware of it.

Lastly, the redacted contact info does include a "name", which I'm hoping is a nickname (if not, then I feel pretty sorry for the poster of this ad). I'm thinking their actual name is something like "Paul" or "Peter" or "Percival", because the ad says to contact "PEE." Now, if you shorten your name to the initial "P", and that's what people call you, I can see how this might not seem weird to you. However, generally speaking, professionals don't go by names that also mean "urine," or any other bodily function. Even with all the crazy names in the rap community, I probably wouldn't want to work with a guy named "DJ PinchLoaf." There [I]are[/I] some different constraints on professional monikers compared to more casual ones.

haha that's crazy, i couldn't get my head around what the hell they were talking about with the referral business, do they have a website?

They didn't give one in the ad. Though they did list a non-generated email and gave a phone number, so contact isn't impossible.

Yeah that's pretty bad, everything is all over the place. Sentence structure is atrocious.

[QUOTE=Moseph;17750293] But after about 2 spelling/grammar errors in a 15-sentence ad, [b]you've pretty given a crappy first impression[/b].

[/QUOTE]

I don't feel I need to point out the irony here. However it appears I just have...

I hope it was intentional.

[quote=Motleyguy;17753393]I don't feel I need to point out the irony here. However it appears I just have...

I hope it was intentional.[/quote]


WHOOPS!

Oh, well. Can't win 'em all. Fixed now.

Don't say, "If you have 3:30 minutes..."

Title is "Music Studio in [B][location redacted][/B]"

Before the quote, I'm just gonna say that this ad uses a whole bunch of words to say practically nothing. For that reason, I'm breaking it down into quoted sub-sections. However, the quoted sections, when strung together, will form the ad verbatim, minus the line spacing between paragraphs.


[quote]Everyone and they're grandma rap's now a days.

Everyone wants to be part of the "industry".

What i feel some people fail to comprehend is that it is not for everyone!

Just cause you can write down a few words and the last word happens to rhyme does not mean you are a rapper! It also does not mean that there is someone out there who wants to listen to what your saying! [/quote]



Okay, this is kind of a long intro, and as always the spelling/grammar isn't 100%, but I think everyone's hanging in there so far...


[quote]With that being said, i would like to introduce myself. I am as legit as it get's. One of [B][location redacted][/B]'s only "artist" who's a 100% with it. I am part of what i consider a "Secret Society" for that reason i am extremely secretive! I am not known but that is by choice! I was preparing everything and now it is time to let the "Files out the briefcase".[/quote]



Here's the first left turn. This paragraph starts with "i would like to introduce myself", but there is literally zero actual introduction. We still don't know your name, we don't know what you look like (there are no pics in the ad), you don't give any past work history. In fact, you also say "I am not known but that is by choice!" What exactly does this mean? Does it mean that you're actively avoiding recognition for your work, so you have well-known works under a pseudonym or released anonymously? Or does it mean that you're a newcomer to the field? Which do you think the reader is gonna assume is most likely?

More importantly, the "secret society" talk is just plain weird. If we think you're crazy, why would you assume that means we want anything to do with you, especially if we don't know you from Adam?


[quote]Do you know someone who has a studio in [B][location redacted][/B]? I mean as legit as it comes kind of studio. I do not mean your Mic stand set up in your mothers basement. I mean a studio!

If your willing to work with something spectacular that may help you benefit from the finishing make's feel free to reply to this. Also if you can have some type of audio of worked you have already done? And also possibly what kind of money your looking for? That would be great.

What programs do you use? What kind of music do you really enjoy mixing?
For i rap. Not the "Shoot em up bang bang i get money" kind of rapper though. [/quote]


This is the closest thing to the "meat" of the ad we get: he's looking for somebody to record him, and he wants some info from any prospects. Here's the thing though, his only description for an acceptable "studio" are "I mean as legit as it comes kind of studio" and "I do not mean your Mic stand set up in your mothers basement." These aren't terribly descriptive terms. A mic stand isn't even remotely a studio: a mic stand doesn't satisfy any functional requirements of a studio (i.e., capture signal, store a signal, playback of live/recorded signal).

To be fair, the ad is pretty upfront about the info sought, which is good. But it took kind of a long time to get here, and the stuff that came before was on the verge of idiotic bravado and rhetoric. Make the good impression first, then you might be able to get away with all the grandiose nonsense (though I'd suggest just skipping that part altogether).

Also, can anyone interpret "If your willing to work with something spectacular that may help you benefit from the finishing make's feel free to reply to this" for me? Who exactly is supposed to reply?


[quote]Do not miss out on an opportunity! Once i find the correct studio it will be "curtains" like they say.[/quote]


Here's where he loses me for good. If he wants to roll with the big boys, he shouldn't make [I]them[/I] come to [I]him[/I]. They can get work already. That's why they're the big boys.


[quote]For those wondering. I happen to be a "fly guy"/"Modern day hippie". Let's build something! Please be a smoke friendly engineer lol.[/quote]


Here's strike two, in my eyes: a "smoke friendly engineer" better not mean "I want to smoke tobacco and/or drugs in your studio." Smoke is probably the #1 fastest way to completely ruin your equipment (mics in particular) over time. Not to mention that a pro studio probably wants to deal with non-smoking clientele. If the studio stinks that's a major turn-off to non-smoking potential clients. If you want to smoke during the session, you better take that outside. If you decide that "no smoking" is a deal-breaker for working in my studio, well then, good riddance.


[quote]Maybe you have all the right set up but all the wrong people over! That's why you see no real progress. If your reading this and this is your case, make a change today. Reply.

If money is what your after our relationship may not work. Not that the money isn't there. It's just i would like to meet someone who has a passion for making great quality music!!!![/quote]


Another big thing: downplaying the money angle suggests you want something for cheap, or possibly free. Not a hard angle to find, but if you also want a "legit" studio, they're probably more interested in keeping the lights on in the short term than maybe finding the "next big thing" in the long term. Also keep in mind that in the long term, if you do make it big, you're liable to up and leave and never work in that studio again.


[quote] If things are a 1000% good on your end, we can talk numbers.

What i listen to - Lupe,Nas,Currensy,Wiz khalifa,Styles P,Cassidy,Blu,j.Cole,Mos Def,Jay Elec.,Jada,Ransom & so on. Hopefully that helps you with what im into. [/quote]


Are you only willing to pay if things are "1000% good" on the part of the studio? Well, what if we're not "1000% good" about you? There's always give and take in a professional environment. Particularly if you're trying to find somebody who's willing to work with you beyond the money issue, why shouldn't you be expected to conform a little bit as well?

Gee that one was just bad. The guy is so full of himself. Secret Society my ***.

I'll be posting an ad for drum lessons, when I do I'll let someone here rip me up on it :)

i bet that guy is really bad at engineering

[QUOTE=Moseph;17765743]LAST POST[/QUOTE]

haha that was entertaining

he's a fly guy, who wouldnt wanna help him out?

Title is "NEED TO LEARN ABLETON LIVE ASAP"
[U]
[/U][quote]I HAVE A HOME STUDIO THATS NOT BEING PUT TO USE BECAUSE I DONT KNOW HOW TO USE MY EQUIPMENT. I NEED SOMEONE TO TEACH ME HOW TO USE ABLETON LIVE. I DONT HAVE A BIG BUDGET TO PAY FOR LESSONS SO THIS IS WHAT I PROPOSE. IM OFFERING MY STUDIO FREE OF CHARGE TO WORK ON YOUR PERSONAL PROJECTS IN RETURN ALL I ASK FOR IS LESSONS. IF INTERESTED PLEASE CONTACT ME ASAP. SERIOUS INQUIRIES ONLY. [B][contact info redacted][/B][/quote]

There are only two real issues with this ad. The first is the Caps Lock key, which I'm pretty sure is something that is never going away with some posters.

The second however, is a little flawed logic. While I think this is a genuine mistake, it's not particularly likely that somebody who knows the software you use well enough to teach you won't have a copy for themselves, and thus is already able to work on their own projects. The only real thing this poster can bank on is that their home studio has better functionality than that of the tutor's. I don't see that being very likely.

I also find it weird why he has a studio yet doesn't know how to use the software. You'd think he'd start slow and build his way up and if he couldn't figure it out with modest equipment he wouldn't continue buying stuff. Maybe he killed the guy who owned the studio before him? :D

Nah, not that weird. Ableton Lite comes with a lot of interfaces, including smaller ones (I know it came with my M-Audio MobilePre and I think also with the E-mu 0404).

I've seen ads for "studio recording" on CL that shows photos of a studio that consists of a Shure KSM27 and a Tascam US-122 (the old one), with M-Audio BX5 speakers and some 61-key keyboard MIDI controller. The threshold isn't that high for folks to call it a "studio."

There's also education edition software that knocks the prices down considerably if you qualify for it.

This one I thought was interesting not because of how ridiculous it was, but mostly because of what I think is an easy-to-overlook logical flaw.

Okay, where here's my recent posting!

[QUOTE]To anybody who wants to pick up the sticks or anybody who needs some guidance and direction in their learning of this trade, but who can't afford the high costs of instruction from the masters:

Justin Radford is now offering drum and percussion lessons aimed at the beginner player. Weekly lessons, $15/half hour or $25/hour lessons. Located out of Damascus, OR (just minutes from Gresham, SE Portland, and Clackamas). Specializing in concert and rudimental percussion, and drumset based on the rock/funk/swing/latin styles. All ages welcome!

Check out more details at [B][info redacted][/B][/QUOTE]

Let 'er rip!

Okay, this is two ads, and these are the type that just make we think to myself "Gadzooks" (I'm serious, that was [I]actually[/I] my reaction: I acknowledge this is weird).

First one is titled 'Profesional "New" Studio Recording(Best Bang For Your Buck in [B][location redacted][/B])'

[quote]Professional Recording, Mix and Master, Rent Studio By The Hour & Make Beats On Best Production Set UP IN Town!!!
Over 17,000 Sounds.... and over 5 stacks in Plug Ins Just for sounds.
IF You Make Beats Make One Here And You Will Never Want To Make A Beat Anywhere Other Than Our Studio!!!
Our Engineer's Have Degrees In Music From Top Five Schools In The Country And Will Assist You Throughout Your Session. "GREAT RATES" FOR THE QUALITY!!!
If You Already Have Finished Songs or Beats? We Can Make Them Sound Better!!!
No!!! ONE!!! Will Match Our Quality Or Sound For The Price!!!
IF YOU NEED CRACK!!! NOT BEATS!!!! CRACK!!! ONE OF THE BEST PRODUCERS IN THE COUNTRY IS APART OF OUR STAFF!!!
WE SCORE FILM, GAME AUDIO, AND AUDIO BOOK'S
Prices May Very, Must Call For Rates....Businessman Only or Dont Call
[B][contact infor redacted][/B]
"Proverbs 12:22" [/quote]


Okay, let's knock this one out one at a time. First, the spelling: I always find a tasty bit of irony seeing the word "Profesional" plastered across something. This isn't even a homonym, pretty much every spell-checker will catch it (they're even putting spell-check in Internet browsers now). It's basically a hilarious shot in the foot.

Next, the Grammar issues. I understand the use of exclamation points. You want us to get excited about your product, so you make it seem like [I]you're excited[/I] about it. But don't punctuate your ad like you're the narrator of a used car dealership...


[quote]"No!!! ONE!!! Will Match Our Quality Or Sound For The Price!!!"[/quote]


Really? We're supposed to take you seriously after you deliver this sentence? What were you [I]thinking[/I]?

Then there's the other big grammar issue: I actually would prefer all caps to the all capitalized words situation: ALL CAPS is way easier to read than Capitalizing Each And Every Word For No Freaking Reason. At least they switched it up in mid-stream to accommodate me on that.

Also, the use of quotes is bothersome. The title says it's a "New" studio. Is that a euphemism for something else? What else could you mean except for "new" anyway? Oh, and you're offering "GREAT RATES"? Oh: '"GREAT RATES" FOR THE QUALITY." My bad.

Is there anyone reading this who doesn't see those quotes and think, "Are they being sarcastic? Do these rates actually suck?"

Next, "Over 17,000 Sounds" and "5 stacks in Plug Ins" just sounds like a lot of crap to wade through. The purpose of a good collection is to be versatile but well-managed. Yes having a metric crap-ton of software might sound impressive to somebody who doesn't know what they're doing. Those are the same people who will quickly become frustrated by having [I]way too many[/I] choices to sift through to make a beat.

But here's the part where it really gets weird to me...

[quote]IF YOU NEED CRACK!!! NOT BEATS!!!! CRACK!!! ONE OF THE BEST PRODUCERS IN THE COUNTRY IS APART OF OUR STAFF!!![/quote]


Is "crack" slang for something [I]other[/I] than crack-rock cocaine? I'm serious about that question: I'm kind of a square, and don't really follow music styles that use beats (i.e., hip-hop and electronic). Maybe it's just me. But I'm [I]pretty sure[/I] you just offered to sell me drugs.

And now that I think of it, it also appears that your major qualification for "ONE OF THE BEST PRODUCERS IN THE COUNTRY" is the ability to get "CRACK." Are all the best producers in the country also drug dealers? Does dealing drugs make them a good producer, or...how does that work?


Anyway, the second ad is from the same folks, posted about 3 minutes later. This one is titled 'Studio "Brand New" Straight Crack!!!'

[quote]LISTEN TO THE REST!!!!!!!!!
THEN COME AND CHECK OUR SWAG!!!!!!!
THE PROOF IS EVIDENT!!!!!!!
OUR WORK SPEAKS FOR ITSELF!!!!!!!!
"YOU NAME IT" WE CAN DO IT!!!!!
Be About Your Business..........
[B][contact info redacted][/B][/quote]



[I]Again,[/I] with the crack? And the weird-*** quotations? And did the exclamation point key get stuck or something? The "it's one or none rule" does apply to pretty much all formal language, though 3 exclamation points ("!!!") does seem to be used to up the excitement factor in advertisement. But any more than three isn't adding to the excitement, it's just cluttering up your ad and making you look like a clown.

In another slang-related gaffe (that might be my fault because I'm not hip) they're trying to get us excited about their "SWAG." Again, somebody feel free to correct me on this, but isn't "swag" free promotional items like t-shirts, pens, and bumper stickers? Is that something to get excited about with a recording studio?

Here's the actual big problem with this ad though: they clearly say they sound the best and you should check them out. There's no further contact info beyond the CL-generated email and a redacted phone number. No website. No samples. No client listing. You can huff and puff all damn day about how you're the best and you only work with the best, but the very first thing a client is gonna do is just ask to see some results. Kind of a "where's the beef?" sort of thing. In this day and age, if I have to call you, to [I]arrange[/I] to listen to your tracks, that's just an extra step in the process for me as a potential client. Certainly a step that a professional wouldn't have to worry about: they'd have [I]something[/I] readily available, be it a demo reel or just a list of past projects.

Also, the "YOU NAME IT" in quotes like that, it seems a little suggestive to me (maybe because I'm still thrown off by the crack references). What exactly are you offering, here? My mind wanders to murder, drugs and prostitution. I guess it's nice that you might be very accommodating to your clients, but at some point you've surpassed "full service" and hit a point of "too much service" for a recording studio. The fact that this is an Internet-posted ad makes this lack of availability even more exaggerated to me.

Lastly, each ad has some line about "business" at the end there, which is sort of a weird after-thought to include.

I'm not aware of any other form of crack....sounds to be a thinly veiled attempt to sell drugs.

You know, it does occur to me that "one of the best producers in the country" might be referring to "one of the best producers [I]of crack[/I]" and not "of beat" or "of music."

I don't even know that I'd call this a veil, however thin. If that's the case, the post blatantly says, in all caps, "BUY COCAINE HERE."

This might be the weirdest ad I've seen. Well, maybe not for that one from the DJ talking about his fear of delivering pizza for a living...

[quote] [B][business name redacted (twice)][/B]



Founders:

[B][founders' names redacted][/B]

[B][business name redacted[/B]] Started in 2009.
[B][founder's names redacted][/B] are here to help upcoming artist accomplish there goals.
Some artist don't have the right direction on how to get to the next level as far as artist development and getting into the music business.
We can provide everything you need to get started!! Music video,Studio time,Artist Development, Writing and Promotion on our website [B][website redacted][/B]
So if you need help, please contact us on our contact page on the top of the Website or you can email us at [B][contact info redacted][/B]






[B][business name redacted][/B] is offering a great package for a great price.

In this package you will get everything you need to get started with your music career.

Here is a list of things that you will need to get started as a upcoming artist.

We provide the following

1. Beat Production (Exclusive rights to the client of all production)([B][founder A's name redacted][/B] Production)
2. Artist Development
3. Music Video ( Music video directed and produce from [B][founder B's name redacted[/B])([B][business name redacted][/B])
4. Studio Time for recording your project
5. Help with wordplay,writing and delivering
6. Promotion on our website.([B][website redacted][/B])

For 2,000 dollars you get all
Client will have to pay 1,000 Deposit to get started . Half of deposit up front,
And when work is completed we will recieve the last half from the client.
This is 30 day Package only for our services,anything over 30 day period will be a extra fee.
30 days should be enought time to get everthing you need to get started on your new career.

So when you look at the great deal you our saving 10,000 to 20,000 dollars.
You can not find a better deal then this!!


Thanks
[B][name info redacted][/B][/quote]Okay, the first thing that jumps out at me on this one is that they're offering you help with writing, when they clearly have a poor grasp of the English language ("recieve", "enought", "our" instead of "are", "then" instead of "than"). The other thing I'm noticing more and more (and beyond this particular ad) is the use of "artist" as a plural, rather than the proper form "artists." This is apparently a very easy and common mistake to make that looks [I]really[/I] bad: it shows you don't know the very basic lexicon of the business you're trying to run.

The next big thing for me on this one is that the package they're offering is comprehensive, but time-limited. 30 Days "should" be enough time to record songs, make a music video and get some basic promotional stuff done, but who's to say it actually [I]is.[/I] This is particularly true of clients who might have a less than flexible schedule (students, weekend warriors, etc.).

But also consider the pricing plan. They're asking for a huge amount of cash compared to others, though they purport to provide more extensive services. 2,000 should probably go a long way, but when dealing in cash, it's not smart to give 1,000 up front on a 30-day waiting period. If you can't finish your stuff within that 30-day period, you're probably out at least a grand. This is a particularly ballsy offering from a company that started in 2009, which for all intents and purposes could be less than 2 months ago.

Also, when you look at it closely, what is the client really supposed to pay? It says this costs $2000. But then it says the deposit is only $1000. Then it says that only half the deposit is due upfront (i.e., $500?). Isn't the definition of "deposit" something that's paid in advance to keep the client on retainer? What do they really expect out of the client here? What happens if the company fails to deliver the goods within 30 days (or at all)?

They do a good job of plastering their names and website all over the ad (the title includes it as well), but this doesn't mean that promotion on their website is worth anything (and it's given as one of the 6 basic services they offer). You'd need to be aware of the website already, and regularly visit it to get any exposure to a new artist on the website. This is probably not very likely given the "newness" of the company. In fact, it's probably less effective than going to music-oriented message boards like this one and posting links (and we all know how effective that is).

Basically, the big flaw with this ad is that the business is trying to jump into the big time without paying any particular dues to get there first. You can't command large sums of cash up front when you have no track record, and you probably shouldn't expect professional clientele when you can't bring a professional demeanor.

Here we have an example of an ad that is "almost" what you might want it to be...

Title is "Looking for all local artist"

[quote]Hello, are you looking for a studio to record at, but your on a tight budget? Well i Have a Mobile studio and a team of producer that can help you with your dalimer.
We have inexpensive all original tracks Mastered professionally. Plus we Charge by the sections
1 section equals 8 hours
.5 section - $80 (4 hours or less)
1 section - $120
2 sections - $160
4 sections - $300

Sections can be broken down to help save you money and are never rushed so there is less pressure so your creative juice can flow
any questions or for more information contact [B][name/contact info redacted][/B][/quote]Basically, this guy is shooting himself in the foot with the terrible spelling and grammar.

The lack of plurals ("artist" in title, "team of producer") is rapidly becoming a pet peeve of mine. I'm assuming "dalimer" == "dilemma" as well. My advice: if you're unsure of the spelling of a word, either look it up or don't use it at all. Case in point, I actually thought it was spelled "dilemna" but wasn't sure, so I did a Google search and found out the proper spelling in less than 10 seconds.

Here's the big one though: what exactly is a "section?" Could you mean "session?" Even if you don't, it [I]appears that you do[/I], and quite frankly if we think you can't spell the primary method of setting up a recording project (i.e., a "session"), why on Earth would we think you have any clue as to what you're doing?

The rates are a mess as well. The economy of scale is blown way out of proportion. It's essentially not worth your time to work with this engineer for less than 8 hours, and if I'm reading this correctly, 7 hours will cost you the same as 16 hours (A full "0.5 section" and then less than 4 hours versus "2 sections"). That's just a bad pricing scheme.

EDIT: A reposting of this ad does in fact confirm that "sessions" is the proper interpretation (it was corrected in the repost).

Man some of these are so bad!! This is how i advertise myself. 200 bucks a song, 400 if you want me to produce it. Get it mastered by Mark Chaleki, he's a genius and will make your album explode. You decide how much you want to spend, I'm non negotiable since each song is a set price.

[quote=Xomblies;17812066]Man some of these are so bad!! This is how i advertise myself. 200 bucks a song, 400 if you want me to produce it. Get it mastered by Mark Chaleki, he's a genius and will make your album explode. You decide how much you want to spend, I'm non negotiable since each song is a set price.[/quote]

Are those your exact words? Because there's kind of muddy language there:

Specifically, the client can't decide how much to spend if you're non-negotiable.

[QUOTE=Moseph;17812078]Are those your exact words? Because there's kind of muddy language there:

Specifically, the client can't decide how much to spend if you're non-negotiable.[/QUOTE]

well if you want to do a song, it's 200 bucks, 400 if i produce it. If you want to do 10 songs it's 2 grand 4 if i produce it. The non negotiable part is how much i charge per song

[quote=Xomblies;17812109]well if you want to do a song, it's 200 bucks, 400 if i produce it. If you want to do 10 songs it's 2 grand 4 if i produce it. The non negotiable part is how much i charge per song[/quote]


Yeah, that's what I figured. My point (and the point of this thread) is that you need to be careful about word choice. You managed to be a little confusing in only 2 sentences. Clearly, it's not a hard trap to fall into.

[quote=Moseph;17808897]Here we have an example of an ad that is "almost" what you might want it to be...

Title is "Looking for all local artist"
...

The rates are a mess as well. The economy of scale is blown way out of proportion. It's essentially not worth your time to work with this engineer for less than 8 hours, and if I'm reading this correctly, 7 hours will cost you the same as 16 hours (A full "0.5 section" and then less than 4 hours versus "2 sections"). That's just a bad pricing scheme...[/quote]



Okay, another reposting says

[quote]***FYI Other studios charges between $20-$50. Now ask your self is it worth going to the over priced studios for the same quality[/quote]


Lousy grammar aside, I just want to respond to this ad like "YOU CHARGE $80 FOR A 1 HOUR SESSION! That's not a deal!"

The lesson here: don't talk talk smack about your competitors.

Did engineers and musicians fail high school or something?

I mean, I'm not the greatest at grammar, but this **** I see on craigslist reminds me of stuff that fourth graders write.

[quote=Seafroggys;17816091]Did engineers and musicians fail high school or something?

I mean, I'm not the greatest at grammar, but this **** I see on craigslist reminds me of stuff that fourth graders write.[/quote]


Funny you should mention this, because here's another one I saw today...

[quote]
[B]Music VoiceOver Audio Recording[/B]


HI,
I am a professional audio engineer,
I have been in the scene for over 15 years.
I have available a space for simple audio recording projects
or i can come to you for on location recording.
if you are a single musician or small group that needs a high quality demo for distrubution or a professional voice over artist,
i would be able to help get things started..

my equipment is very high quality and professional.
an Ashly Audio 8 channel analogue mixer with premium microphone pre amplifiers,
a great selection of microphones from a vintage RCA ribbon microphone to Large diaphram condenser to the ubiquious Shure SM57.

all master recording are done in 24bit depth on a MOTU 2408Mk3 interface.
you will have complete copyright to all finished works.


contact me with any questions
thanks [/quote]


It makes think, "seriously?" The gear listed is esoteric enough (but still reputable equipment) that I believe this is somebody who actually does this, but the fact that so much of it is disjointed English, with such terrible spelling also gives me the impression that this is somebody who [I]doesn't[/I] do this. So that's kind of weird.

[quote][B]need a f***ing guitarist[/B]

hey, you know what it is.

ive been playing drums for 12 years and piano for like 8

only thing i dont play is guitar, but i make guitar riffs on the keys

looking for someone into playing alternative rock, metal, nu metal, and s*** that creates mosh pits

i have some practice space[/quote]


[NOTE: obscenities censored by me to ensure meaning is obscured by auto-filter]

Okay, let's start with the beginning

[quote]hey, you know what it is.[/quote]


Um, [I]what!?[/I] Does this mean anything? Is this really a good way to open up your ad?

That's kind of the problem with the entire ad. It's just sort of abrasive and vague. I read through it three times (the intial time, the time copying it here, and again proof-reading it here) and I still don't know if this person is looking to form/join a band, get a regular jam session together, or just write and record music with somebody. I'm also unsure what "some practice space" could mean: is it only available sometimes, or is it part of a larger space that you don't have access to, or...well, I really don't know what else this could mean?

[quote]
[B][SIZE=2]Get Your Mixtape made & music mixing and mastering[/SIZE][/B]

I put together mixtapes for artists, Basicaaly you would need to send your music i would level it all out put the mixtape together in the order you want finalize it for a cd add the sound effects or provided drops. and send it back I charge $25 per hour the usual 15 track mixtape takes about 8 hours , if interested email [B][email redacted][/B] or text [B][phone info redacted][/B][/quote]


Two giant things leap out at me here. As always, ignore the sub-literate writing of the post.

First, it's my understanding that a "mixtape" in the hip hop world is a compilation of recordings from multiple artists used as a promotional tool (if I'm wrong about this, let me know), whereas an "album" would be a collection of songs by a single artist. Assuming I'm not wrong about this distinction, this poster seems to confuse to the two concepts. This gets back into the "confused lexicon" problem I've been seeing/talking about lately. There's no reason we should expect you to be any good at what you do if you can't reasonably conveny to us that you know what you're talking about.

Secondly, the ad explicitly requests a text message rather than a phone call. Though I know it's the hot thing amongst the young people these days, this is not a good method of making first contact. For starters, it's not considered a form of "professional" form of communication yet by the general commercial public. But the really big reason is that for your first contact, you're bound to have a huge amount of questions going back-and-forth between service provider and potential client. Texts are inherently limited forms of communication (140 characters I think for SMS). A phone call or email message would be dramatically more efficient in getting info exchanged between both parties and would also help break the ice because you're forced to introduce yourself and what your plans are, rather than forced [I]not to[/I].

I don't think texting will ever take off in a commercial capacity, especially for first contact situations. Its too limiting.

Actually, i'm going to have to disagree with you guys about the texting thing. Texting is a great way to communicate if you are a pretty busy engineer who doesn't have a lot of time off to take calls.

the engineer my band went to for our last cd is a very high-demand engineer who has sessions 12-8 five+ days a week, months and months at a time.

he basically gets a new client or two every day, and he can't just stop a session and answer a phone call, but he can text a quick "okay that day is open, sounds good thanks" in between vocal takes or while talking to us about a part in our song or whatever.

[quote=comptonassrobert;17831457]Actually, i'm going to have to disagree with you guys about the texting thing. Texting is a great way to communicate if you are a pretty busy engineer who doesn't have a lot of time off to take calls.

the engineer my band went to for our last cd is a very high-demand engineer who has sessions 12-8 five+ days a week, months and months at a time.

he basically gets a new client or two every day, and he can't just stop a session and answer a phone call, but he can text a quick "okay that day is open, sounds good thanks" in between vocal takes or while talking to us about a part in our song or whatever.[/quote]


Maybe, but there's a big difference between sending texts between clients you know and making new contacts. It's probably smart to do a little bit of basic footwork to make sure that a first-time client isn't an obvious waste of your time. For instance, if you happen to determine that they can't pay, will be miserable to work with, or just need to discern what sort of setup will be required. If you can do all that in 140 characters, I'd like to know how.

While I'm on the subject of phones, leaving cell phones on during a session is a [I]terrible[/I] idea. Even if they're set to vibrate/silent mode, a lot of phones will create E/M radiation that is audible in speakers and long cable runs (they basically act as amplifiers and antennae in the right conditions). You could very easily ruin the perfect take not only because of an incoming call, but because your phone lost cell tower contact momentarily and switched to a different mode of operation.

This is to say nothing about the professionalism that is impressed upon the client if you divert your attention from their project on their dime without permission.

[QUOTE=Moseph;17831667]Maybe, but there's a big difference between sending texts between clients you know and making new contacts. It's probably smart to do a little bit of basic footwork to make sure that a first-time client isn't an obvious waste of your time. For instance, if you happen to determine that they can't pay, will be miserable to work with, or just need to discern what sort of setup will be required. If you can do all that in 140 characters, I'd like to know how.

While I'm on the subject of phones, leaving cell phones on during a session is a [I]terrible[/I] idea. Even if they're set to vibrate/silent mode, a lot of phones will create E/M radiation that is audible in speakers and long cable runs (they basically act as amplifiers and antennae in the right conditions). You could very easily ruin the perfect take not only because of an incoming call, but because your phone lost cell tower contact momentarily and switched to a different mode of operation.

This is to say nothing about the professionalism that is impressed upon the client if you divert your attention from their project on their dime without permission.[/QUOTE]

honestly, all of that is just "in theory, in a perfect world.." talk. he wouldn't stop our session when he got a text, and it certainly wouldn't mess with the recording seeing as all of the tracking was done in a completely separate room than the one we were working with him in.

and yeah for the "getting to know each other" part, we talked over AIM. which in theory sounds unprofessional but in reality was really a lot easier for him, and for me too. and if you're as good as he is and have recorded as many big acts as he has, you don't really need a life story to know whether the client is going to be worth your time or not. and he requires half of the sessions deposit before you record, for the first session so the money thing isn't a problem.

he asked me for rough recordings of the songs, asked me how well we knew them to a click and that's about it. and really, that's all it took and the product was phenomenal.

before you record with somebody like that, you say "OMG i didn't pay for him to ANSWER TEXT MESSAGES" but then you get there, and it takes about 10 seconds, and he does you the service of making your band sound a lot better than they really are, and that small text doesn't really bug ya. answering a phone call would be a lot more unprofessional and distracting

[quote=comptonassrobert;17831685]honestly, all of that is just "in theory, in a perfect world.." talk. he wouldn't stop our session when he got a text, and it certainly wouldn't mess with the recording seeing as all of the tracking was done in a completely separate room than the one we were working with him in.[/quote]



I guess it's good that it all works out for him, but I stand by my statement. In particular the bit about not having cell phones on during a recording session. The "separate room" thing, btw, is a bad argument. The audio cables that move between the rooms are spots where problems can happen. You don't need a microphone to screw your performance when E/M radiation is involved. If you need proof grab an AT&T phone that's running on their 2G/"Edge" network and use it near active speakers in an area with dodgy reception. The interference can get [I]really[/I] bad [I]really fast[/I].


[quote=comptonassrobert;17831685]and yeah for the "getting to know each other" part, we talked over AIM. which in theory sounds unprofessional but in reality was really a lot easier for him, and for me too. and if you're as good as he is and have recorded as many big acts as he has, you don't really need a life story to know whether the client is going to be worth your time or not. and he requires half of the sessions deposit before you record, for the first session so the money thing isn't a problem.[/quote]



As for the AIM thing, it's unorthodox, but you'll notice my original point was that to gather information you need more than 140 characters. AIM provides that. Phone/in-person meeting is preferable (it's easier to get an idea about somebody's MO and intentions that way), but I've also done a lot of stuff where it was setup by email only myself. The one thing where AIM actually beats out phone/in-person is that you can set it up to automatically log the conversation, and get a written trasscription of any "verbal" agreements.


[quote=comptonassrobert;17831685]he asked me for rough recordings of the songs, asked me how well we knew them to a click and that's about it. and really, that's all it took and the product was phenomenal.

before you record with somebody like that, you say "OMG i didn't pay for him to ANSWER TEXT MESSAGES" but then you get there, and it takes about 10 seconds, and he does you the service of making your band sound a lot better than they really are, and that small text doesn't really bug ya. answering a phone call would be a lot more unprofessional and distracting [/quote]



Not disagreeing about phone calls. You'll notice I didn't say he should interrupt the session with a phone call either. Either way, he's slowing down [I]your session[/I] to attend to [I]another client[/I] on [I]your dime[/I]. No matter how you slice it, that's unprofessional. Texts and emails make it very easy to communicate outside of real-time: there's no expectation for instantaneous response, so you can afford to wait until after the session to respond.

If you don't have a problem with it, then that's to his benefit. I'm somebody who does. I'm actually one of those people who hates it when somebody doesn't excuse themselves to handle text messaging in private conversation as well (like they would/should for a phone call). There's a lot of folks out there who still are, and not just the elder crowd (I see it pretty commonly with Gen X'ers, too). I've read articles that there's kind of a "social gap" about this between the Digital Natives and older generations. When dealing in a professional environment, it's always good to be a little more conservative about how you handle interpersonal communication for this reason. If it happens once in a professional setting, I'm irked (of course I'll politely ask for it not to happen again); twice, I'm unhappy; three times, I'm looking for somebody else for the next session. I don't care how good he is, there's somebody else out there just as good (if not better) who can play by my rules. This is particularly true since I already mentioned that cell phones should be [I]off[/I].

[quote][B]Can Anyone Reach Ginuwine?[/B]

My daughter's turning sixteen on the the 21st of March and I wanted to know what he'd charge to just call her and wish her a happy birthday during her party. I don't have very much due to me having kidney failure and being on disability but she's got to be his number one fan he's the first thing she plays in the morning and the last thing before she falls asleep. I'm also a very talent songwriter/producer and could offer him a song or a couple of tracks if he was interested for doing this. - Thank you, E'nia's dad. [/quote]


Okay, so if this is a legitimate posting on CL, then it really doesn't need to be talked about, since it's not a commercial venture. If that's the case, then it sounds like a nice thing a father is trying to do for his daughter, and I don't see any problem with it.

However, it does sort of have a "con artist" feel to it. It really comes off as somebody trying to get their foot in the door to the industry by trying to utilize potential contacts to a big-name artist.

For starters, I'm not an expert on Ginuwine, but there's no reason to assume he has any relevent contacts in a given area (I dunno, maybe he used to live in my area or something), or if he does that they'd be reading craigslist.

Not really too weird so far (craigslist has all kinds of weird stuff posted), but my spidey-sense really starts tingling when the ad sort of tacks on at the end that "I'm a talented songwriter/producer and I could offer him a song."

This angle is downplayed by mentioning that there's no money for this desired favor. I guess the poster is sick. But in the event of a legitimate post of this nature, we don't actually need to know this: all he supposedly wants is to get in touch with somebody. Money doesn't necessarily need to exchange hands (just yet, anyway). But if I had a nickel for every time somebody used the "failing health"/"I'm broke" plea to try to get something for free out of me, I would probably need a wheelbarrow to take them to the bank (and I'm only 25 and a nobody: imagine how often this crap has been tried with actual industry people).

Realistically, getting in contact with Ginuwine (or his management) probably shouldn't cost you anything more than a phone call. The favor that's being requested isn't a huge deal, but you should probably[I] let him tell you[/I] that he won't do it for free (or at all). What this really smacks of is either (a) a pretty lame attempt to get listeners to this guy's music, or (b) an incredibly [I]far-fetched scheme[/I] to try and get somebody in the industry to give him a foot in the door.

So, back to my original point. If this is all true, and the poster is a sick, maybe somewhat misguided dad trying to do something for his daughter, I feel for him and hope things work out for him. However, if this is in fact the wool pullover my gut says it is, it's pretty transparent. More importantly, you don't want your professional contacts being made under false pretenses. That's just bad business: how can anybody trust you if they know they can't...well, [I]trust you[/I].

[quote][B]Affordable Recording. I will work with your budget[/B]

Like the title says, I'll work with your budget no matter how much it is. Just email me for more details!

[B][contact info redacted][/B][/quote]


You might be thinking, "what could possibly be wrong with an ad this short?" It's subtle, but the pricing.

Basically, the implication (which I'm pretty sure is unintentional) is that he'll work for any amount of money (which in my book does include "free"), but he'll happily take you for all you have. That doesn't inspire a lot of confidence in me that he knows what's up. He might as well say:

[quote]I'll work for whatever you can pay me. Irrespective of quality or effort involved.[/quote]


That's more or less what I'm pulling from this ad.