What I find disconcerting about this thread is the absolute conviction some people have about the benefits of beating children. And the apparent pride in their willingness to hit kids.

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[QUOTE]If you're too soft with a kid and dare not touch them on occasions where they deserved to be disciplined, you're not doing your job as a parent.[/QUOTE]OK you're just assuming beating is the appropriate course of action. Great argument.

[QUOTE=nowhesingsnowhesobs]What I find disconcerting about this thread is the absolute conviction some people have about the benefits of beating children. And the apparent pride in their willingness to hit kids.[/QUOTE]
No one wants children beaten. A little spank on the butt isn't beating a kid.

[QUOTE=thedeadwalk!]Which comes from a lack of authority of the parents, physical or not.[/QUOTE]

He wasn't really SPOILED... I just made sure to say that to show you that he wasn't in an abusive home. He was just never physically disciplined, and all the pansy time out stuff he got.. never worked.

[QUOTE=Mr. Ron]If you're too soft with a kid and dare not touch them on occasions where they deserved to be disciplined, you're not doing your job as a parent.[/QUOTE]
Discipline ≠ spanking

[QUOTE=thedeadwalk!]Discipline ≠ spanking[/QUOTE]

Sometimes it has to be!

[QUOTE]the kids have lost all respect for their elders[/QUOTE]

And I know that I've always respected everyone who's hit me.

[QUOTE=IdioticJester]He wasn't really SPOILED... I just made sure to say that to show you that he wasn't in an abusive home. He was just never physically disciplined, and all the pansy time out stuff he got.. never worked.[/QUOTE]
You know the kid better than I do but, there's more to it than just the act, there has to be a presence of authority behind it. Maybe you're parents sent mixed signals to him about the punishments or undermined each other differently. Maybe after a punishment they would apologize or otherwise disregard his act as minor. I can't say, and I doubt he remembers everything either.

[QUOTE]What I find disconcerting about this thread is the absolute conviction some people have about the benefits of beating children. And the apparent pride in their willingness to hit kids.[/QUOTE]

And in children it enforces the "might makes right" mindset.

Plus: [url]http://nospank.net/sexdngrs.htm[/url]
[url]http://www.nospank.net/dugan2.htm[/url]

Sometimes you just need to hit a kid. It should be a last resort, but never completely ruled out. That's all I'm saying.

No.

So if your kids refuse to ever listen to you, what do you do? Take away TV for another week?

Take out your aggression on them.

[QUOTE=nowhesingsnowhesobs]Take out your aggression on them.[/QUOTE]

A simple smack on the arm or leg will set 'em straight.

[QUOTE=Med57]There's no hard and fast guide to parenting. I was never hit or spanked or whatever you want to call it as a child, and I've turned out fine. I certainly normally see hitting your kids (or whatever you want to call it) as a sign that you've already lost control of the child, and as an indicator of the fact that you could probably have stopped whatever it is that they're doing wrong by acting in a more moderate way earlier. That's not to say that it's always wrong, as sometimes it may be the lesser of two evils, but I think that hitting the kid can always be averted by better parenting earlier on.[/QUOTE]
Not all children are the same. Some listen, and some don't. If a child does not respond to normal discipline, then a little spanking isn't uncalled for.

[QUOTE=IdioticJester]Not always. My brother in law knew this family and the kid was a rotten spoied brat. He was babysitting him once, and the kid was being very rude and nasty, so he hit him WHAM right across the face. That kid never acted out again, even his parents said so. They asked him what he did to make it stop, and he told them.. the mom flipped, but the dad was happy SOMEONE did it.[/QUOTE]

Guess who spoiled the rotten brat?

[QUOTE=nowhesingsnowhesobs]What I find disconcerting about this thread is the absolute conviction some people have about the benefits of beating children. And the apparent pride in their willingness to hit kids.

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OK you're just assuming beating is the appropriate course of action. Great argument.[/QUOTE]
It's not beating! You were obviously never hit as a kid. It's not a slap across the face or striking with a bloody cricket bat. It's a smack on the back on the hand or a hit on the butt. For god's sake you're looking at the worse side of it. Listen. I was hit. I got smacked on the hand, I got smacked on my arse. I'm not violent, I'm a straight A student, I don't have any 'issues'. It hasn't damaged me in any way. The only thing it's done is taught me to do the right thing. It's not the scenario you're thinking of. It's not me refusing to go to bed so the parents start shouting and eventuall they hit me. If I did something wrong I would get punished. They didn't lose their temper- it was a sanction.

[QUOTE=coheneran]Guess who spoiled the rotten brat?[/QUOTE]

The mother. After hearing about the incident, the father started spanking the kid too, and he's much better.

[QUOTE=Mr. Ron]Not all children are the same. Some listen, and some don't. If a child does not respond to normal discipline, then a little spanking isn't uncalled for.[/QUOTE]

Yes it is. There's no such thing as a "little spanking". Even if it's not that painful, it's humiliating and it's degrading. Parents and teachers are in a position of power and responsibility, and to abuse that power on someone so vulnerable and inexperienced is plain wrong. Parenting and violence should not go hand in hand.

[QUOTE]So if your kids refuse to ever listen to you, what do you do? Take away TV for another week?[/QUOTE]
don't raise kids who refused to listen to me by showing myself to be a subhuman neanderthal who can't communicate with language and just has to resort to hitting things.

[QUOTE=coheneran]Yes it is. There's no such thing as a "little spanking". Even if it's not that painful, it's humiliating and it's degrading. Parents and teachers are in a position of power and responsibility, and to abuse that power on someone so vulnerable and inexperienced is plain wrong. Parenting and violence should not go hand in hand.[/QUOTE]

And sometimes children need to be degraded if they do not respond to other discipline. There are far worse things that can happen to them than a little smack.

[QUOTE=IdioticJester]The mother. After hearing about the incident, the father started spanking the kid too, and he's much better.[/QUOTE]

You mean that by beating him, he's become responsible and able to recognize and prevent himself from doing a selfish act? Or, more likely, is he scared sh[COLOR="Black"]itless[/COLOR] to do anything he thinks might get him beaten?

[QUOTE=The Tway]don't raise kids who refused to listen to me by showing myself to be a subhuman neanderthal who can't communicate with language and just has to resort to hitting things.[/QUOTE]

What if they act out and don't respond to other discipline? I was brought up right, but I didn't always listen till I got hit. Then I learned.

[QUOTE=coheneran]You mean that by beating him, he's become responsible and able to recognize and prevent himself from doing a selfish act? Or, more likely, is he scared sh[COLOR="Black"]itless[/COLOR] to do anything he thinks might get him beaten?[/QUOTE]

The latter. But now he knows not to do it. As he grows up, he'll learn that he deserved it and what he did was not right. Unless he's a little retard or something.

[QUOTE=IdioticJester]And sometimes children need to be degraded if they do not respond to other discipline. There are far worse things that can happen to them than a little smack.[/QUOTE]

That's an empty statement. By that logic, we should use thumbscrews to stop toddlers from sucking their thumbs, because "there are far worse things that can happen to them."

[QUOTE=coheneran]Yes it is. There's no such thing as a "little spanking". Even if it's not that painful, [B]it's humiliating and it's degrading[/B]. Parents and teachers are in a position of power and responsibility, and to abuse that power on someone so vulnerable and inexperienced is plain wrong. Parenting and violence should not go hand in hand.[/QUOTE]
That's the idea. The idea of discipline is not to make the child feel happy. It's supposed to humiliate them and make them feel bad because they've done wrong. What argument do you have? You've never experienced it. it's not that bad. How many times do we have to say we turned out alright? You're thinking of extremes and it's not extreme. A smack on the hand is not emotionally scarring. It's not always neccessary but sometimes a child needs to know where they stand.

[QUOTE]What if they act out and don't respond to other discipline? I was brought up right, but I didn't always listen till I got hit. Then I learned.[/QUOTE]
so you had bad parents. not my problem, take it up with them.

[QUOTE=IdioticJester]The latter. But now he knows not to do it. As he grows up, he'll learn that he deserved it and what he did was not right. Unless he's a little retard or something.[/QUOTE]

But he doesn't understand WHY, so he hasn't really learned. If I memorize the answers to a maths test and then pass it with full marks, have I learned anything? No, I didn't.

[QUOTE=coheneran]That's an empty statement. By that logic, we should use thumbscrews to stop toddlers from sucking their thumbs, because "there are far worse things that can happen to them."[/QUOTE]
Thumbsucking doesn't hurt anybody and doesn't warrent punishment. Getting hit doesn't cause any psychological harm in a loving household. In an abusive home, yes, but not in a loving one. I dare you to prove otherwise with FACTS.

[QUOTE=The Tway]so you had bad parents. not my problem, take it up with them.[/QUOTE]

I had good parents. So any parent whose kids doesn't always listen to them is a bad parent?

[quote]But he doesn't understand WHY, so he hasn't really learned. If I memorize the answers to a maths test and then pass it with full marks, have I learned anything? No, I didn't.[/quote]

Any other forms of discipline will make children understand any more?

[QUOTE]Thumbsucking doesn't hurt anybody and doesn't warrent punishment. Getting hit doesn't cause any psychological harm in a loving household. In an abusive home, yes, but not in a loving one. I dare you to prove otherwise with FACTS.[/QUOTE]

hey buddy didn't you look at those links on the other page. I posted two very good proofs that it can cause psychological harm

[QUOTE]
I had good parents[/QUOTE]
you just told me they beat you.

no wonder you hate freedom, you're some kind of masochist.

[QUOTE=The Tway]so you had bad parents. not my problem, take it up with them.[/QUOTE]
It's obviously not bad parenting if the child turned out alright.

[QUOTE]But he doesn't understand WHY, so he hasn't really learned. If I memorize the answers to a maths test and then pass it with full marks, have I learned anything? No, I didn't.[/QUOTE]
When a child is young, whether they get shouted at or hit for doing something wrong all they know is that they've done something wrong and not to do it again. They don't know why, it's just wrong. As they grow up they understand and they learn why things are wrong and right, they make their own decisions and don't need to be punished anymore, they make their own mistakes.

[QUOTE=The Tway]you just told me they beat you.

no wonder you hate freedom, you're some kind of masochist.[/QUOTE]

I was disciplined with a smack on the arm or leg to show me that what I was doing was wrong. Only when I did bad things though, severely acting up and not listening to what they said. But after being hit, I stopped.

[QUOTE=coheneran]Yes it is. There's no such thing as a "little spanking". Even if it's not that painful, it's humiliating and it's degrading. Parents and teachers are in a position of power and responsibility, and to abuse that power on someone so vulnerable and inexperienced is plain wrong. Parenting and violence should not go hand in hand.[/QUOTE]
I really don't see some taps on the butt as violence, I really don't.

Some mild, rare spanks will teach the kid things that a parent that is too soft and hands off won't.

[QUOTE=Herbert_da_fish]That's the idea. The idea of discipline is not to make the child feel happy. It's supposed to humiliate them and make them feel bad because they've done wrong. What argument do you have? You've never experienced it. it's not that bad. How many times do we have to say we turned out alright? You're thinking of extremes and it's not extreme. A smack on the hand is not emotionally scarring. It's not always neccessary but sometimes a child needs to know where they stand.[/QUOTE]

I've been beaten. My parents were stressed out (this was when we were still living in Israel) and unhappy, and I was a little git. Once we emigrated from Israel, my parents became happier, they stopped beating me (not that it was a common thing in the first place), I was happier and looking back on it now, I started acting like a "good little boy" once we moved away. I guess in my case, my behaviour depended on my parents' behaviour.

[QUOTE=IdioticJester]I was disciplined with a smack on the arm or leg to show me that what I was doing was wrong. Only when I did bad things though, severely acting up and not listening to what they said. But after being hit, I stopped.[/QUOTE]
Precisely.

[QUOTE]It's obviously not bad parenting if the child turned out alright.[/QUOTE]

he didn't turn out right he's got a rick santorum avatar.

[QUOTE]I was disciplined with a smack on the arm or leg to show me that what I was doing was wrong. Only when I did bad things though, severely acting up and not listening to what they said. But after being hit, I stopped.[/QUOTE]

If I were you I would sue them.

it seems to me that the ones opposed to spanking kids ar ethe ones that were [I]beaten,[/I] not spanked. They are two different things.

[QUOTE]When a child is young, whether they get shouted at or hit for doing something wrong all they know is that they've done something wrong and not to do it again. They don't know why, it's just wrong. As they grow up they understand and they learn why things are wrong and right, they make their own decisions and don't need to be punished anymore, they make their own mistakes.[/QUOTE]

That's not right. Kids should understand why things are wrong when they are getting punished for them so they can realise that its not just arbitrary violence being inflicted on them. Cause that will really screw them up. You say when they grow up they can make their own decisions, but honestly kids are constatnly making decisions and they should be aware of the repercussions and morals associated with them as soon as possible.

[QUOTE]It's obviously not bad parenting if the child turned out alright.[/QUOTE]
thats false

[QUOTE=The Tway]he didn't turn out right he's got a rick santorum avatar.[/QUOTE]

I just don't like the other guy. Santorum is a douche too.