[QUOTE=italic zero]If you can't tell yourself... ask someone else and learn to recognize it. Off key = sounds bad. That's how most people tell.[/QUOTE]

or just record yourself... if you can't tell still it means you are most likely tone deaf, sorry can't help you there :upset:

Not being able to tell if you're off key = Not tone deaf.
You get better at it after time.. Just practise singing along to music, when the singer from the musics voice "clashes" with yours, you're properbly off key

Singing along to music generally masks your own singing. It's much better to practice alone.

[QUOTE=Knifeboy]Not being able to tell if you're off key = Not tone deaf.
You get better at it after time.. Just practise singing along to music, when the singer from the musics voice "clashes" with yours, you're properbly off key[/QUOTE]

it's just like tuning your guitar, when the resonation vol heightens the two strings are in tune (stated very basically i.e., sounds waves parallel or in sync with each other tend to have a reverberative quality out of tune strings don't have. it's sort of a "brightening" effect). you should be able to at least hear the pitches matching even when your singing. try singing in your car and get real close to the windshield so you get some echo although, you might not want to do this while driving.

not being able to tell = tone def but tone defness isn't permanent like regular defness. you can learn your way out of it. :thumb:

[QUOTE=italic zero]Singing along to music generally masks your own singing. It's much better to practice alone.[/QUOTE]


Singing along to music helps improve being able to hear if your off key. Singing alone does not.

[QUOTE=sleepy1212]
not being able to tell = tone def but tone defness isn't permanent like regular defness. you can learn your way out of it. :thumb:[/QUOTE]


If you mean, "not being able to tell if you're off key" = tonedeaf, then you're wrong.

Tonedeaf = Not being able to tell the difference between two pitches, wich would mean that all sounds and all music, would sound as if it was made up of only one pitch. And that, is very very rare

[QUOTE=Knifeboy]Singing along to music helps improve being able to hear if your off key. Singing alone does not.
[/QUOTE]

Singing with a piano is what I meant. Singing along to music promotes bad technique and minimalistic singing. Singing with a piano you can slow down and get all the pitches, then speed it up.

[QUOTE=italic zero]Singing with a piano is what I meant. Singing along to music promotes bad technique and minimalistic singing. Singing with a piano you can slow down and get all the pitches, then speed it up.[/QUOTE]


Ah, of course.. You're right!

So y do I think I sound really really good in my head?

Because you get the resonance of your vocal chords to travel through your cheek bones, making your voice sound fuller.

And I hear myself and i sound ok, so what do i do to make it sound like the voice in my head?

You'll never be able to sound exactly like you sound like you do in your head. Another reason you like it better is because that is how you are used to sounding. But with practice, you can make your voice sound better in general, I don't know any excersises for resonance in particular, but there are excersises to work on tone.

Are emo singers all tenors then?

Pretty much :)

[QUOTE=italic zero]According to silver's guide, I'm a bass. I consider myself a baritone. And I'm singing tenor in choir :(

I really need to strengthen my lower falsetto, I can hit a G or G# full voice, but when I'm getting into consistent long phrases above an E# or so, I start dying. However, my falsetto is not there at all below a G or so, which is a great annoyance. Other than just practicing lower falsetto a lot, are there any specific excersises I can do?
[/QUOTE]

No? :(

I'd like some tips, I started getting lessons but I had to discontinue them because they're so expensive, I can't find any affordable teaches around where I live. I got given a cd that has scales on it and I've learnt how to breathe properly, do I just keep practicing these and sing along to songs as practice? Also I find that I can hit higher notes pretty close, however even tho I know I can hit the lower notes I find it harder to match them, which is really quite annoying. Any help would be appreciated. I had somethin else to ask but I forgot :(

There's a really good book called "Set Your Voice Free" by Roger Love [url]http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0316441791/ref=lpr_g_1/103-3247938-4945436?v=glance&s=books[/url]
comes with a cd...Has some very good lessons and excersises.

Hi, I'm a human.

I can sing pretty much, and ove it, but I have a problem, and that's why I'm here. I barely go off- key.. but hate it when I do it. So, while trying to avoid this, I realized that I go off- key because my voice isn't strong and solid enough. When I try to make it solid, lower I get, the more "distorted" my voice becomes, and higher I get, the more fake and "robotic" it gets.

For example, let's take 2 pieces of music with really hard vocals:

1) Sting- Roxanne. From the start, Sting's voice enters pretty solid, goes high and low, but never loses its dynamic mood. But, when I sing it, I don't go off- key but my voice is very weak. When I try to make it stronger, well, it's not "clean".

2) Muse- Micro Cuts. The whole song is at falsetto, how nice. I can hit "all" of these notes, but they're not fluent enough, and when Matt Bellamy hits those high notes, his voice shakes, which gives it a strong feeling. I just can't do it like that. When I try to sing louder, I have no voice.

Any help? Pleease...:)

Practice expanding your range a lot, and make sure you support the notes with your diaphram.

How would i help this, i have about the deepest voice ever i can get it into higher octives but it turns into a screech, but i can pull of singing stuff from like AC/DC and Guns N Roses sometimes but how bout for like over all singing cuz im in a band and one song we cover is Senses Fail Bloody Romance and i cant seem 2 get my voice 2 get the high while staying in tune

You can practice gradually climbing in pitch, but if you have a deep voice, you have a deep voice. A bass trying to sound like a tenor isn't a pretty sound. Play to your strengths man, singing high is overrated anyway.

Thanks for the awesome tips all. I used to be a really bad singer, all passion but no clue. I am better now halfway from beginner to intermediate -depending on the song.

Anyway just wanted to say thanks.

I can always sing better when i'm singing to a cd, and even when i want to sing like the cd when playing with my band it still sounds ****. Any tips?

[size=5]Singing 101[/size]
[size=3]Lesson 3: Staying in Key, Falsetto Singing, and Harmonizing[/size]

Hey everyone :wave:

Sorry I haven't been continuing my lessons but I've been real busy as of late with exams. Today has been the first day I've been able to just sit around and do nothing; so I thought I might as well type out another lesson.

[size=4]Visualizing the note: My own method for "being on key" [/size]

Just a warning: this is a little unconventional, and may or may not work for some people; I created this technique a few years ago when I had problems just staying on key.

As a begginer, a lot of singing; is in your mind. I think the hardest part is learning to accept the way your voice sounds, and comming to terms with that. Once you do that, you can start improving. Thus, It is important to visualise; really think about the sound of the note you are singing before you sing it. I find the best way to do this is by focusing (imagining) a small dot on my forehead, and from that dot is where all the sound comes from. The higher I go up the higher on my forehead I stress, the lower I sing the lower on my forehead I stress. I found this usefull because melody is something that is untangeable, and by doing this it was a good way of fooling myself into gaining confidence because it felt like singing was just a matter of training muscles in my forehead.

[size=4]Singing in Falsetto:[/size]

Falsetto is your "weaker", "higher", or "girly" voice. A lot of male singers try to get by without using their falsetto, this is insane; when used and trained properly and used in conjunction falsetto singing brings range and variety to your singing. Strengthening your falsetto ALSO develops your scream; thus if you want to learn to scream well, learn to falsetto sing! (for screaming tips check out the: "screaming... some pointers thread" I wrote)

[size=4]How to do it:[/size]

Have you ever impersonated a women or drag queen before? You liked it didn't you? :naughty: Guess what? Now you have an excuse to let out all your homosexual tendancies like never before. That voice, thats really soft and high, that is your falsetto voice. I know at first it may seem like it sounds like crap, but seriously falsetto voice can sound ALMOST as strong and powerfull as full voice when its pushed.

[size=4]Facial positions:[/size]
In falsetto, the tone is ALL in your face and in your neck. Thus it is critical that you have proper positioning down:

- cheekbones up
- mouth open as horizontally as possible
- drop your jaw vertically but not all the way (I know a its tradition to drop your jaw all the way down, but trust me; new techniques have been discovered that prove this won't allow you to get the best sound
- you face should look something like the Joker in Batman (to a less extreme of course :lol: )

#1 don't be afraid to sound like a complete idiot (because you will for a while)
#2 take a deep breath, expanding your diaphram
#3 PUSH from the top of your throat as opposed to in your stomach
#4 Your upper jaw should be slighted more forward than your bottom jaw, almost like you are going to bite something (like a cat)

[size=4]Exercises:[/size]

Find the highest possible falsetto note you can sing, and just practise belting out those notes. A really good song for this is "I believe in a thing called love" by The Darkness. I know it might not be the greatest song ever, but it is something that most people could sing if they really practised. (i.e. I can do it and I am a baritone, its probably not possible for a bass to sing it though)

Falsetto singing just like regular singing needs exercises, practise the exercises we learned in previous lessons but using your falsetto voice.

[size=4]Harmonizing:[/size]

A lot of people have trouble singing, hearing and differentiating harmonies in vocals. This is because to be able to harmonize you have to first be able to sing in key, however the great thing about it is you don't have to be the best singer in the world to harmonize.

For myself, I have never been a fan of learning other people's harmonies. I mean who cares? Why waste your time driving yourself mad trying to hear the two exact notes that the singers are harmonizing. Wouldn't it be a lot better to just make up your own harmonies to what he's singing?

Formally the easiest way to go about making a harmony is to just sing corresponding chord notes in the key the person is singing in.

ie. If I sing an A ===> You will sing an E

For those who are a little musically challenged. On the 5th and 6th string of a guitar if I sing:

A-----
E---5-

you sing

A---7-
E----- (its just singing different notes in a power chord)

(Note: Harmonizing is NOT just singing the same not the next octave up; although that does sound better sometimes anyway :p.)

Sometimes it is difficult not to both just sing the same note: for the guitar or bass player in the band who is probably harmonizing I sugguest maybe wearing earplugs, (so you don't get thrown off and you can hear yourself better) until you get better at it.

This is such a BORING way to harmonize, and it never sounds that great anyway. The best way to make up harmonies is just to strum the same chord patern as in your songs, and spontaneously come up with lower or higher melodies that are in key with the chords. This way when you cover a song, you don't sound exactly like the freakin band you're covering and you can make it sound original.

If you need anything explained clearer, or are just plain confused about a technique... :D just ask I.

Sliver

[QUOTE] drop your jaw vertically but not all the way (I know a its tradition to drop your jaw all the way down, but trust me; new techniques have been discovered that prove this won't allow you to get the best sound
[/QUOTE]

It's not so much dropping your jaw all the way down, it's relaxing your jaw. Keeping your jaw tense 3/4 of the way open won't do you any good.

[QUOTE=italic zero]It's not so much dropping your jaw all the way down, it's relaxing your jaw. Keeping your jaw tense 3/4 of the way open won't do you any good.[/QUOTE]

I'm not really sure the why's; all I know is from my newer teachers techniques and from my own experiance when you drop your jaw A LOT, you loose this nice crisp clean tone of your voice that is from your diaphram and it puts more strain on your throat.

To your point about relaxing; sometimes tense is a good thing; being tight and in proper form can give you range you never thought you could get before. Being relaxed is necessary for singing lower, or singing mellow styles of music like jazz or funk. Unfortunately a side effect of sometimes tensing your jaw is your whole body up can get really tensed up =) when you do this you're going to tire yourself out REALLY fast, and it doesn't help your singing at all.

Just try it, unless you make a concious effort not to do it, when you tense your face your whole body will tense up.

Hey people, :wave:
As you can probably tell I am a complete noobie to this board but hopefully I will 'fit in' and can help out where ever I can.
I have been searching for a vocal help site for rock singers for sooo long and I am really impressed with how all of you guys (and girls) help each other out, you don't find that on alot of boards cause everyone is normally rippin everyone elses musical interest...so its a welcome change :). Also a big thanks to Silver, your lessons have been really helpful for me.
Keep it up guys and I hope to chat to you soon :thumb:

Vocal exercises for Acting are awesome for your voice, and physical warmups (Alexander technique, etc.) work wonders for concerts. I discovered this after returning home from closing night of a show and sitting down with my acoustic. Check it out, though. Who knows... maybe you'll become interested in Acting!

how do learn what notes to sing when your harmonizing. do u just have to have a good ear or do u just do what sounds right. i dont really understand this concept.

[QUOTE=athedrivein213]how do learn what notes to sing when your harmonizing. do u just have to have a good ear or do u just do what sounds right. i dont really understand this concept.[/QUOTE]

I explained basic harmonies in my thread, all it is; is singing notes that correspond with each other on a scale (like a guitar chord). If you don't know how to play an instrument you can either learn one or you'll have to learn how to do it by ear.

does singing along with songs help any because thats what i usually do. I have been doing that alot lately to get down playing guitar and singing at the same time

[QUOTE]Find the highest possible falsetto note you can sing, and just practise belting out those notes. A really good song for this is "I believe in a thing called love" by The Darkness. I know it might not be the greatest song ever, but it is something that most people could sing if they really practised. (i.e. I can do it and I am a baritone, its probably not possible for a bass to sing it though)[/QUOTE]

I find singing Jeff Buckley has [B]greatly[/B] improved my falsetto voice, especially the very high, long sustained note near the end of 'Grace'. :thumb:

[QUOTE=athedrivein213]does singing along with songs help any because thats what i usually do. I have been doing that alot lately to get down playing guitar and singing at the same time[/QUOTE]


this will not help you improve, sing with some sort of instrument so you can tell how often you sing out of key.

im ok at singing and i can sing scales easily BUT when i sing songs i go off key relatively easily .lets assume i really really suck and im a begginer where should i start?? I really want to start from the beggining and work my way up

[QUOTE=fluffhead]im ok at singing and i can sing scales easily BUT when i sing songs i go off key relatively easily .lets assume i really really suck and im a begginer where should i start?? I really want to start from the beggining and work my way up[/QUOTE]

Are you sure you're singing the scales correctly? I've always found it the other way around... my advice to you is to break the songs apart. Because if you think about it songs are only long variations of scale.

Break apart your songs into 10 notes each part... once you can sing one part perfectly add on another part (ad infinitum) until you can sing the whole song.

that sucks pretty hardcore that you parents think your singing sucks.
My parents have been pretty suppportive about me singing. When my band did our first CD my mum suggested that I get lessons, she said I should start lessons, coz i sounded great live but not as good on Cd, said I sounded Flat (as in dead, she wouldn't have a clue what flat realy means) anyway, I got pretty offended and thought that she was putting me down, but in the end I went to lessons, and its the best thing I've ever done, and now, i sound better recorded than I do, in stinky, smoky, discustung, horrible, drunki filled Bars! hey i guess its better than working at Mc donalds

Sliver,
any other techniques you have of working on songs. My coach has given me some great suggestions, but I still feel overwhelmed sometimes with songs because it feels like it's just too hard focus and get them done well. I like to be able to systematically break everything down so that it's much easier to work on any problems at all, but need some more methods for some of my more harder songs to sing like Dokken's Dream Warriors and songs that are all over the place like that.

my problem is that 1) although my singing voice sounds high.. i cant reach the pitch of some singers.. such as dustin of thrice. and when at its highest it sounds like utter waily ****.

2) my voice can only go between a soft singy choir voice to screaming.. like wtf. help is appreicated.. i dont sing at all.. but it wouldnt hurt to become a tad better.

Silver great tips man ! Hats off to you ! Also for the guitarists who want to improve their singin, use the C Major scale (starts on 3rd fret on the A string, if you don't know the C major scale ask and I'll post it) use the vowels first, then go to the 4th fret then 5th etc.. Then try octave jumps (with the vowels) I didn't find out about this by myself so the credit should go to my guitar teacher.

hi i've been singing in my band for over a year now. We're mostly an indie type band w/ a vocal style tt's somewhere between pavement and trail of dead (when they decide to sing). I think i have the right range and the right amount of "whine" to suit our music but i have a lot of problems trying to make my voice more "solid". Another problem i have is amplifying my voice. When i try to sing louder i just invariably end up going falsetto or my voice will crack. But when I sing at home without having to compete w/ the other instruments I sound a lot better. So any tips on 1) making my voice less thin 2) amplifying?

Thanks a lot Silver, this has helped me out a lot. My friend screams and I sing for our band. It used to sound like crap but now there is a lot of improvement. I will be sure to have my friend read the screaming thread you posted a while back. Thanks again. :thumb:

Mike