So what? It still has a similar solo to that of "Since I've Been Loving You".

[QUOTE=DemBonez]That song is no worse than "Voodoo Chile (Slight Return)"[/QUOTE]

That is a ridiculous thing to say. I have no clue how anyone could even begin to compare those two songs- "SIBLY" is good, but the solo is mediocre at best when compared to Voodoo Child (Slight Return). Hendrix made the most amazing sounds with the electric guitar, whereas Page just played okay blues solos. If you think Page is better, listen to Machine Gun live at the fillmore east. That's all I can say.

[QUOTE=Destroyed]Joke?[/QUOTE]

No.

In addition, why are Hendrix and Page being compared here? They're not that alike.

First off, I never said Page was better, but there is no way in hell he was as bad as everyone is trying to say he was. The solo in "Voodoo Chile (Slight Return)" is one of the laziest and unmelodic solos that I have ever heard Hendrix do. Compared to the solo in "Since I've Been Loving You", it sounds a lot more like Hendrix trying to cram as many notes into his solo than Page trying to cram notes into his. With that said ...

Both guitarists are very different and subsequently both were great for different reasons. Hendrix made a new sound on the guitar and made it exceptional. He was original, distinctive, and almost ethereal in what he played. What he played seemed as if he had some how found a different set of tones, notes, and other sonics from his guitar that no one else had seen before. And while Hendrix was original, Page was versatile in what he played. Listen to the first four tracks of [I]In Through The Out Door[/I]. You get hard rock/proto-metal tune followed by a rolling shuffle tune followed by an Argentinian flavored tune and finally a country/boogie-woogie influenced rock tune. Regardless of what you say, Hendrix did not play that wide of a variety of songs.

How'd this turn into a "Hendrix vs. Page" thread?

I love Noel Redding. He was so overlooked as a pioneer bass player. He held back alot, but every now and then he'd come up with this incredibly groovy line that just fit in perfectly with Mitchill's drumming.

[QUOTE=rockinbass17]How'd this turn into a "Hendrix vs. Page" thread?[/QUOTE]

I don't know. I think that they were both good guitarists. You can't really compare them, since they played completely differently. I do like Page's work, but personally, I like Jimi's guitar work better.

[QUOTE] If you think Page is better, listen to Machine Gun live at the fillmore east. That's all I can say.[/QUOTE]

I have the guitar book for that concert. It's crazy. But that's because I suck at guitar.

This thread has exploded since last time I browsed through it. One might say it's not very rewarding to discuss who's the better of x and y, however; I have to admit I find it interesting to compare certain guitarists.

I have listened to several songs by both Hendrix and Zeppelin. That said, I'm yet no expert. If I have a favourite guitar solo of each it must be All Along The Watchtower by Hendrix and Stairway To Heaven by Page. If I had to set the two of these up against each other, I think Stairway... gets my vote.

Does that mean Page is a better guitarist than Hendrix? No. I haven't listened enough to them to be the judge.

For the hardcore-fans of both: could you provide me a few good examples on guitar solos based on major scales? I don't know who of them that incorporated a major tonality in their solos most often, but I bet both have several examples. Primarily, I had the major pentatonic in mind, but let's just expand it to "major scales".

The reason is because I have listened to x amount of classic rock songs where the minor pentatonic dominates. I still find it interesting listening to songs with solos based on non-minorpentatonic scales.

Now?

For Page: Misty Mountain Hop, D'Yer Mak'er

For Hendrix: The Wind Cries Mary, May This Be Love

I'm having trouble thinking of more, but I'll post them if I can think of them.

[QUOTE=magicbus]For Page: Misty Mountain Hop, D'Yer Mak'er

For Hendrix: The Wind Cries Mary, May This Be Love

I'm having trouble thinking of more, but I'll post them if I can think of them.[/QUOTE]

Thank you for that. I will explore the songs.

Been watching this post with interest and thought it was time to chime in.

I think comparing Page and Hendrix is not a fair comparison for one simple reason, Hendrix changed the world and Page didn't.

Who's better? Who cares?

The really sad part that hasn't been mentioned yet is the fact they both played music during a period of time when drug use was in high gear.

Maybe the question should be, who could play better when they were high?

I've always felt Page was a great composer and a thoughtful soloist, but his ideas were held back by his dexterity. I always assumed that was a drug thing, but never held it against him. If I did that, then Cream and Traffic would get black marks too.

Hendrix on the other hand was a pop sensation that appealed to musicians because of his unique sound, technique, and success. I'm sure his sense of how to make something groove had a lot to do with it too. I never thought of Page as someone that had that "groove" thing going.

The "Groove" factor can't ever be underrated.

Of course, that's just my opinion and who cares about that?

Rick
[url]www.jazzrockworld.com[/url]

BTW - Hendrix is the hardest working dead guy is the music business. He's been dead for 35 years and still comes out with a new album every year. Not bad...

staiway solo is Am pentatonic with half in the common box position

[QUOTE=Popup-Box]
I have listened to several songs by both Hendrix and Zeppelin. That said, I'm yet no expert. If I have a favourite guitar solo of each it must be All Along The Watchtower by Hendrix and Stairway To Heaven by Page. If I had to set the two of these up against each other, I think Stairway... gets my vote.
[/QUOTE]

First, I think there is some justification for a Hendrix thread in this forum because at the time of his death Hendrix was on the verge of collaborating with Gil Evans and he had been hanging out with and trading ideas with Miles Davis. Moreover, even though Hendrix never quite managed to venture into fusion, he still strongly influenced it. There really is no justification for a Jimmy Page thread here, and this thread, I'm sorry to report, is in some danger of becoming one. The only excuse I can think of to discuss Jimmy Page in this forum is to contrast him with Hendrix in order to show just how important Hendrix was, to make him a foil for Hendrix. If we were to achieve a consensus that Page was superior to Hendrix or equal to Page or even separate-but-equal (equal in his own sphere) to Hendrix, then this excuse would immediately collapse.

Second, I think you've picked pretty good examples considering that they both involve the same chord progression. On the other hand, "Stairway to Heaven" is a long song, and the Page solo occurs just where it needs a lift, and this may unfortunately distract us as critics. Robert Plant, I think, deserves credit for the song itself. (Maybe he wrote it in collaboration with Page; I don’t remember.) We might say analogously that Bob Dylan deserves credit for "All Along the Watchtower", the song itself, but that's not really a fair comparison because there's not nearly as much to Watchtower; Watchtower the song doesn’t really distract us. Hendrix's solos and rhythm playing in Watchtower demonstrate his ability to intimate, to suggest more than he actually plays. They demonstrate his great sound and his rhythmic vitality. Page's solo in Heaven gets the job done; it's okay; it's perfectly adequate, but it is certainly not transcendent and Page’s tone quality is not very good. If it were not for the song in which it occurs, I wouldn't see any reason to listen to it twice.

[QUOTE=We No Speak]
BTW - Hendrix is the hardest working dead guy is the music business. He's been dead for 35 years and still comes out with a new album every year. Not bad...[/QUOTE]

Precisely. He's even more posthumously prolific than Hemingway.

listen to Spirit-Taurus

[QUOTE=Ned]First, I think there is some justification for a Hendrix thread in this forum because at the time of his death Hendrix was on the verge of collaborating with Gil Evans and he had been hanging out with and trading ideas with Miles Davis. Moreover, even though Hendrix never quite managed to venture into fusion, he still strongly influenced it. There really is no justification for a Jimmy Page thread here, and this thread, I'm sorry to report, is in some danger of becoming one. The only excuse I can think of to discuss Jimmy Page in this forum is to contrast him with Hendrix in order to show just how important Hendrix was, to make him a foil for Hendrix. If we were to achieve a consensus that Page was superior to Hendrix or equal to Page or even separate-but-equal (equal in his own sphere) to Hendrix, then this excuse would immediately collapse.

Second, I think you've picked pretty good examples considering that they both involve the same chord progression. On the other hand, "Stairway to Heaven" is a long song, and the Page solo occurs just where it needs a lift, and this may unfortunately distract us as critics. Robert Plant, I think, deserves credit for the song itself. (Maybe he wrote it in collaboration with Page; I don’t remember.) We might say analogously that Bob Dylan deserves credit for "All Along the Watchtower", the song itself, but that's not really a fair comparison because there's not nearly as much to Watchtower; Watchtower the song doesn’t really distract us. Hendrix's solos and rhythm playing in Watchtower demonstrate his ability to intimate, to suggest more than he actually plays. They demonstrate his great sound and his rhythmic vitality. Page's solo in Heaven gets the job done; it's okay; it's perfectly adequate, but it is certainly not transcendent and Page’s tone quality is not very good. If it were not for the song in which it occurs, I wouldn't see any reason to listen to it twice.[/QUOTE]

I agree. Page's solo in Stairway, while enjoyable, can't begin to compare with Hendrix's best solos. Or not even solos, just all-around playing. That's the thing- with Hendrix, there was no difference between rhythm and lead in terms of greatness. He found a way to be extremely innovative and impressive in both areas. However, Page's rhythm work is far from extrordinary and though he made up a few decent riffs, Tony Iommi was a much better rhythm guitarist in my opinion. Page's solo in STH is really just average, so I don't get what all the fuss is about.

"I think comparing Page and Hendrix is not a fair comparison for one simple reason, Hendrix changed the world and Page didn't. "

If you want to compare influence, certainly Hendrix was more influentical, however, that is not in anyway to dimish the imeasurable influence of Page.

"(Maybe he wrote it in collaboration with Page; I don’t remember.)"

Plant wrote the lyrics himself, but as far as I know the music goes to Page. Though it is possible both Jones and Bonham had some hand. I'm not sure off hand, I'd have to look it up.

"I agree. Page's solo in Stairway, while enjoyable, can't begin to compare with Hendrix's best solos."

Certainly, I agree. But why compare Jimi's best with Jimmy's (heheh) mediocre?

"Page's solo in STH is really just average, so I don't get what all the fuss is about."

Probably because STH is one of the first songs new Zep fans hear, and to a beginer guitarists, that solo is quite impressive, thus it generates a great deal of buzz.

Both are absolutely amazing guitarists in their own right.

I prefer not to delve into comparisons being as I like both Hendrix & Page.
Both were great players ahead of their time. :thumb:

Others:
Peter Green *Early Fleetwood Mac & his solo careers

Robin Trower

Frank Marino *Mahogany Rush (***has some of the fastest fingers I have ever heard!)

Johnny Winter

Davis Gilmour *Pink Floyd & his solo careers

Carlos Santana

[QUOTE=dumbassdrummer]Both are absolutely amazing guitarists in their own right.[/QUOTE]

You seem to have changed your tune here. Be that as it may, the remark you really need to address is this one, the one you've conspicuously ignored:

"There really is no justification for a Jimmy Page thread here, and this thread, I'm sorry to report, is in some danger of becoming one. The only excuse I can think of to discuss Jimmy Page in this forum is to contrast him with Hendrix in order to show just how important Hendrix was, to make him a foil for Hendrix. If we were to achieve a consensus that Page was superior to Hendrix or equal to Page or even separate-but-equal (equal in his own sphere) to Hendrix, then this excuse would immediately collapse."

You will allow, I hope, that Jimmy Page had nothing whatsoever to do with jazz (or funk). You will allow further, I hope, that this is a jazz (and funk) forum. How can you possibly justify going on and on about about Page then? (Remember that you're the one who brought up Page in the first place.)

[QUOTE=dumbassdrummer]"I think comparing Page and Hendrix is not a fair comparison for one simple reason, Hendrix changed the world and Page didn't. "

If you want to compare influence, certainly Hendrix was more influentical, however, that is not in anyway to dimish the imeasurable influence of Page.

"(Maybe he wrote it in collaboration with Page; I don’t remember.)"

Plant wrote the lyrics himself, but as far as I know the music goes to Page. Though it is possible both Jones and Bonham had some hand. I'm not sure off hand, I'd have to look it up.

"I agree. Page's solo in Stairway, while enjoyable, can't begin to compare with Hendrix's best solos."

Certainly, I agree. But why compare Jimi's best with Jimmy's (heheh) mediocre?

"Page's solo in STH is really just average, so I don't get what all the fuss is about."

Probably because STH is one of the first songs new Zep fans hear, and to a beginer guitarists, that solo is quite impressive, thus it generates a great deal of buzz.

Both are absolutely amazing guitarists in their own right.[/QUOTE]

but while hendrix WAS an amazing guitarist, page was a good guitarist. theres a difference there. what would you say page's best solo is? since ive been loving you? achille's last stand? certainly not the slop-fest that is heartbreaker. whichever solo you pick, it still wont stand up to hendrix's.

ps: ned, would you say a hendrix thread belongs here? i wouldnt.

[QUOTE=PinkFreud]ned, would you say a hendrix thread belongs here? i wouldnt.[/QUOTE]

I would and DID say, "I think there is some justification for a Hendrix thread in this forum because at the time of his death Hendrix was on the verge of collaborating with Gil Evans and he had been hanging out with and trading ideas with Miles Davis. Moreover, even though Hendrix never quite managed to venture into fusion, he still strongly influenced it."

I think that Hendrix is fair game...

He was a major catalyst for what Miles Davis, Tony Williams, John McLaughlin, etc. did from '69 on... he's been a huge influence on some of the best talent in jazz guitar, from David Fiuczynski to Sonny Sharrock to John Scofield to NGuyen Le to Kurt Rosenwinkel, etc. And finally, his music has been interpreted by personalities as diverse as Gil Evans and Dave Murray, as well as several of the aforementioned.

[QUOTE=ok lateralus]Page's solo in STH is really just average, so I don't get what all the fuss is about.[/QUOTE]

Technically, it might not be the most challenging one, but Page obviously did a couple of right things concerning this solo. Even though the technique is not neccessarily the best, he put together a well-suiting collection of notes. There is one certain note in the beginning phrase of the solo which I have always reacted on. From what I remember, I think it was F, given the solo as a whole is in Am. This F note gives the melody an extra flavour, compared to the sound one would get sticking to the Am Pentatonic scale only. So, Page succeeded on the note choice.

Another detail, be it a pro- or con- for Page, is the way the song builds up. The way the song explodes into a solo exactly when it does, fits perfectly. One might say that the song screams for a solo at this point. Then again, based on the same premises, there will be quite high expactations for a solo after such a build up. Finally, there's the question whether Page succeeded or not. Well, some may describe the solo as average. I, on my hand, would say it's above average.

the first note bent D a full step which is a E which is in Am penta scale ,the fifth of A and not a new or interesting note choice

To Ned: I thought that Blues was an accepted genre in here as well? If so then Page qualifies IMO.

[QUOTE=EmergencyRoom]To Ned: I thought that Blues was an accepted genre in here as well? If so then Page qualifies IMO.[/QUOTE]
so would the Beatles Guns N Roses etc

neither of those were really blues bands. you realize that right?

you shouldve used cream, the jeff beck group, or stevie ray vaughan. especially seeing as how all mentioned above walked the line between blues and rock.

Man, Hendrix in Jazz and Funk, you just can't hide anymore from this guy...:(

[QUOTE=PinkFreud]neither of those were really blues bands. you realize that right?

you shouldve used cream, the jeff beck group, or stevie ray vaughan. especially seeing as how all mentioned above walked the line between blues and rock.[/QUOTE]
Neither was Led Zeppellin

[QUOTE=jam9383]Neither was Led Zeppellin[/QUOTE]
i would classify zeppelin as blues/rock. and seeing as how jazz/rock belongs in the jazz forum, i suppose blues rock belongs here.

they had heavy blues influence, going so far as to steal blues songs and pass them off as their own.

"they had heavy blues influence, going so far as to steal blues songs and pass them off as their own."

I'm not sure they stole songs anymore than EC or any other major act that covers songs does, but whatever.

Also, I don't like calling Led Zeppelin blues/rock. Theres so much more than just that. Theres folk, reggae and even jazz infused in their music.