Gnight thread /bets convo will start now...Keep those tracks coming JoZ :)

I've lost a write-up that I printed out quite awhile ago which described the alternate track order for Lateralus. I still remember the Fibonacci sequence, ect, ect.

My only problem is that I forgot the exact order of the alternate track sequence. Could someone possibly answer my question? And if I remember right there was actually 2 sequences.

6,7,5,8,4,9,3,10,2,11,1,12,13 ("The Lateralus Prophecy") or 6,7,5,8,4,9,13,1,12,2,11,3,10 ("The Holy Gift").

Am I the only one who has a little laugh whenever Lateralus re-ordered is referred to as "the holy gift"? As awesome an album as it may be (and it IS likely my favourite album), "the holy gift" is just a wee melodramatic and over the top way to refer to the album.

It's also missing a rather important point that Maynard's trying to get across in his lyrics, IMO. Our chance to be alive, to have new experiences and live each moment, THAT is the holy gift that he's talking about. Not a cleverly hidden alternate track order in one of their albums.

Hey, I didn't come up with it.

[QUOTE=Darkness Of Greed]Hey, I didn't come up with it.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, I know, I wasn't taking a specific shot at you. I've read the original internet article where the term came from, and I was just questioning that whole idea in general.

[QUOTE=jamesclelland]i cant believe people actually believed maynard found god. that was the most rediculus thing i have ever heard. have you guys ever read the lyrics to these songs? they clearly show him as a pagan(almost).[/QUOTE]
I think it's possible that he could believe in Jesus. His lyrics only bash the people who blindly follow a certain religion because they're told to, not the religion itself. I have pretty close veiws to MJK about organized religion, and he basically said religion is one thing, but conformity is another. The aspect he dislikes about religion is "too many indians, NO cheifs".

[QUOTE=letmypeopleho]I think it's possible that he could believe in Jesus. His lyrics only bash the people who blindly follow a certain religion because they're told to, not the religion itself. I have pretty close veiws to MJK about organized religion, and he basically said religion is one thing, but conformity is another. The aspect he dislikes about religion is "too many indians, NO cheifs".[/QUOTE]

123

Thank you.

I was hoping someone agreed with me.

Wow, after the "Tool talk night" this thread seems, somewhat worn out.

[QUOTE=adams9168]I completely agree with you. I love how Maynard is athiest.[/QUOTE]
Is he for sure?

[QUOTE=adams9168]I'm not sure. He's probably agnostic.[/QUOTE]
Thats what I'm thinking.

Yeah, I think I once read somewhere that he does not consider himself to be athiest.

Maynard was once quoted as praising Jesus and Mohammed as having great ideas about peace/love/understanding, or something to that effect...and said that their PR guys went and fu[color=white]c[/color]ked it up.

Maynard is anti-hypocrisy, he said in an MTV (?) interview that it was the hypocrisy in the church that turned him off to them...he never said anywhere that he was atheist/didn't believe in God.

He was raised a Baptist, so...

I'm not sure he's completely shunned his beliefs so much as he has shunned corrupt church officials, etc. He doesn't seem to like the organized part of organized religion...but he's never openly claimed to be sacreligious.

He's too much of a romantic to be an atheist. Thats the impression I get almost any artist. It's weird I go to an arts school, and the majority of the people there are atheist. I find it pointless to make art, if there is no "spiritual essence". What else would make it art and not matter?

The people are quite contradictory and reject all religion just because it may have rules. Yet they make Art, which has an unexplainable essence to it.

[QUOTE=The JoZ]Maynard was once quoted as praising Jesus and Mohammed as having great ideas about peace/love/understanding, or something to that effect...and said that their PR guys went and fu[color=white]c[/color]ked it up.

Maynard is anti-hypocrisy, he said in an MTV (?) interview that it was the hypocrisy in the church that turned him off to them...he never said anywhere that he was atheist/didn't believe in God.

He was raised a Baptist, so...

I'm not sure he's completely shunned his beliefs so much as he has shunned corrupt church officials, etc. He doesn't seem to like the organized part of organized religion...but he's never openly claimed to be sacreligious.[/QUOTE]
Yes I remember that quote I think I have a file on my comp of it.

Even the lyrics he writes...aren't openly blasphemous or anything.

Even when he says "Jesus Christ why don't you come save my life now? / Open my eyes, blind me with your light"...

That doesn't mean he's putting Jesus down, but to me, he's taking a shot at people who let the church/religion blind them completely; in essence, they take some people over, because they are blind to everything but what the church tells them.

This would go along with the mantra of "Think for yourself"

[QUOTE=The JoZ]Even the lyrics he writes...aren't openly blasphemous or anything.

Even when he says "Jesus Christ why don't you come save my life now? / Open my eyes, blind me with your light"...

That doesn't mean he's putting Jesus down, but to me, he's taking a shot at people who let the church/religion blind them completely; in essence, they take some people over, because they are blind to everything but what the church tells them.

This would go along with the mantra of "Think for yourself"[/QUOTE]
Exactly, I thought I was alone. People are like "how could it not have been, Maynard hates religion". I only just had the motivation to say somthing recently.

Any way I'm out for the night.

[QUOTE=letmypeopleho]Exactly, I thought I was alone. People are like "how could it not have been, Maynard hates religion". I only just had the motivation to say somthing recently.

Any way I'm out for the night.[/QUOTE]


Tool's big thing is to not take things at face value. Yet alot of people who have said that have done just that.

Honestly, I think the only straightforward song Tool has is "Ticks and Leeches", and even then, it's ambiguous as to who it's really about. The rest of their songs are pretty much open to alot of interpretation. "Opiate" is no exception, and I think my interpretation of those lyrics is pretty accurate, IMO.

[QUOTE=BurtonChancellor]Am I the only one who has a little laugh whenever Lateralus re-ordered is referred to as "the holy gift"? As awesome an album as it may be (and it IS likely my favourite album), "the holy gift" is just a wee melodramatic and over the top way to refer to the album.

It's also missing a rather important point that Maynard's trying to get across in his lyrics, IMO. Our chance to be alive, to have new experiences and live each moment, THAT is the holy gift that he's talking about. Not a cleverly hidden alternate track order in one of their albums.[/QUOTE]

hey a long time ago someone wrote their view on the "alternative track listing" for lateralus, and i think i know where hes comin from its. 8,9,1,2,3,6,7,10,11,12,4,5,13. i added ticks and leeches first becuase i see it as he's telling us fans who soo much want tool to Do better and release more ****(SALIVAL) and that he basically lost hid voice to make it What we wanted. and when triad ends mantra comes in faint and tehn bam! but, when schism comes its basically about Teh fall of THE Tower of BAbel. and that this album was basically the building of the Towerr.

I think of Maynard as definitely athiest. If he doesn't necessarily hate religion, I don't see why he would say (well he doesn't say it, but he wrote it) "F*CK YOUR GOD! Your Lord, your Christ". I don't know about your guys but to me that doesn't sound like a "think for yourself".

My stance on the whole deal; I hate religion, but I don't hate people that follow it (except those darn Jehovah's Witnesses).

You should check out the commentary he makes during "Judith" on the aMOTION dvd.. He makes sure to clear out that he does not say "Fvck THE God but fvck YOUR God" In this song he's referring to his mother's beliefs or something. I don't remember it quite clearly but I'm pretty sure he's not plain out saying..."fvck God"...Jeez, I don't know if I made any sense...It's too early for me and I gotta get to class...*yawn*

Not to get too far off this cool topic, but I've been up all night tabbing The Grudge, and wanted to post it before I go to bed. Any of you that play guitar wanna check it out and tell me what you think I'll be back on later...

[URL=http://www.matter4u.com/images/TheGrudge.txt]The Grudge[/URL]

I couldnt put it on Toolshed cuz of their ghey tab posting system that wraps text....

Yeha in judith he says 'Fcuk your god your lord your christ, he's the one that did this to you, you never thoguth to question why' It seems like hes saying to his grandmother he let you die, you shouldn't blindly believe in him. Which is not something a devout christian would do.

[QUOTE=clearvision]Yeha in judith he says 'Fcuk your god your lord your christ, he's the one that did this to you, you never thoguth to question why' It seems like hes saying to his grandmother he let you die, you shouldn't blindly believe in him. Which is not something a devout christian would do.[/QUOTE]

Actually, Billy says that.

Anyway... I'm not really sure about Maynard, he's agnostic in the sense he believes in syncronisities and connections between things, and that everything somehow fits together, possibly for a larger purpose. I get the feeling from Opiate that he WAS completely anti-religion. Yet, from his later works, I believe his opinion mellowed somewhat. Opiate seems very athiest in it's views, sure, you can say he's just bashing people being sheep, but I think it's quite clear back then that he had strong emotions about Christianity being a complete load of crap, and he didn't believe in/like Jesus.

Nowadays, he seems very new-age and individualist in his beliefs, somewhat a suprise if all you'd heard was Opiate. Theres a HUGE difference in the seeming approach to life from those two releases. Simply, he grew.

[QUOTE=clearvision]Yeha in judith he says 'Fcuk your god your lord your christ, he's the one that did this to you, you never thoguth to question why' It seems like hes saying to his grandmother he let you die, you shouldn't blindly believe in him. Which is not something a devout christian would do.[/QUOTE]

I don't think anyone is saying he's a devout Christian...

He may not even fully be a Christian anymore. I don't know for sure.

But I don't think he's an atheist, or agnostic. Nobody seems to know what Maynard really thinks, and I think that's the way he'd prefer it.

The whole judith thing is more of a letter to his mother who fell fataly ill and she said "it is all a part of god's glorious plan" and maynard was probably so angry over that it was like an written letter to her.


With all this hullabaloo about maynards religion i wouldnt be amazed if he actually believed in a god but as we all know he isnt a fan of the middle man in religion about someone who is only in religion to reap the benifits (money)

[QUOTE=Rothmans]The whole judith thing is more of a letter to his mother who fell fataly ill and she said "it is all a part of god's glorious plan" and maynard was probably so angry over that it was like an written letter to her.[/QUOTE]

And his anger would be understandable in some respect.

Either way, I maintain that Maynard is not a sacreligious man.

He's just different :thumb:

[QUOTE=The JoZ]And his anger would be understandable in some respect.

Either way, I maintain that Maynard is not a sacreligious man.

He's just different :thumb:[/QUOTE]
:lol:
True but i have always wonderd what religion Justin is?

[QUOTE=Rothmans]:lol:
True but i have always wonderd what religion Justin is?[/QUOTE]

I don't really know. :p

I don't particularly care about my bands and their religion.

Dream Theater are Catholic/Jewish. Tool are...well, we don't really know what Tool are, it's hard to tell.

As long as they make great music, it doesn't matter to me :thumb: