i was being sarcastic. anyways, ive said this before i am sure....but miles away is so fucking good.

what's wrong with something that's proprietary?

proprietary software does not provide source code. this means that you are unable to alter it, or hire someone to alter it. thus proprietary software is revoking the main advantage of software. proprietary software is in effect user-subjugating software.

proprietary software is also hostile to the notion of sharing (which is caring), thus halting the free flow of information and culture. all for a buck.

most of all mainstream proprietary software includes malicious code that is closed for a very good reason - the vendor does not want you to know what it does. a bunch of proprietary software *spies* on the user.

it is to me completely obvious that for software to be of any use, the user must be able to use, copy and modify it freely. the user should own the software, not the other way around.

in short: proprietary software is just another tactic the man uses to stay atop of you. I am not generally in favour of implying that anyone holds an ethical responsibility to do anything ever, but proprietary software is definitely unethical.

imagine proprietary plumbing. you might be able to use it (under certain restrictions), but you can't modify it. this means two things: 1. if your plumbs break - you can't fix them, nor hire anyone to fix them. you're going to have to wait for the vendor to drop on by. furthermore, if you want to install a plumbing-dependent appliance somewhere - you can't.

or how about proprietary houses. wanna set up a wall over there? wanna expand your living room? you can't. because even though you have purchased the house (and thus the house should be your - in capitalist terms - property), you can't do anything with it. it is not yours to modify in any way.

one thing you can't apply to physical objects though is the copy part, which is one of great importance. if you could clone food without any expenses (economic or otherwise), wouldn't you want to supply the entire world with food? the proprietary business model is telling you that you shouldn't.

one final point I want to raise is that proprietary software is anti-community, and collaboration- and cooperation-hostile. it's one thing that you can't personally alter the code, nor hire anyone to do so. but with free software there are no restrictions, meaning that absolutely anyone can contribute at any time. this is why projects like the Linux kernel or Mozilla's Firefox are so greatly successful. instead of one company writing a bunch of code, and having the entire responsibility of keeping it up to date and free of bugs rest on their shoulders, *anyone* could file a bug report, or even write a bug fix or update to the application.

this furthermore means that proprietary software will *always* be less secure and up to date than free software. have you ever read one of those surveys about how Mozilla's Firefox has way many more bugs than Microsoft's Internet Explorer? want to guess why? if you haven't gotten it yet, the reason is because all of Mozilla Firefox's bugs are *public*. (and as a consequence of this, fixed far faster and more easily than proprietary software's bugs.) Internet Explorer bugs aren't, unless Microsoft so chooses. so the most dangerous bugs are *not known*. this is pretty scary.

and it's definitely something to think about for people who have things they want to keep secure. hacking a computer running Microsoft Windows is no trouble. why? because the hidden back doors are known to two kinds of people: the ones who have seen the code, and the most clever of hackers. consequently hackers (if they're clever enough) can easily gain access to your stuff. this would be prevented if you/the community knew the bugs, and had taken measurements to fix them.

software which provides source code is always more secure than proprietary software. "security by obscurity" will never work. that's just lazy. if everyone has access to the code, then someone will spot vulnerabilities, and someone will fix it.

I could go on, but I suppose you get the gist of it. which is (in case you missed it): "intellectual property" and proprietary software is a) unintelligent, b) unethical and c) impractical.

holy shit

tl;dr apple forces you to use their vastly inferior shit by refusing to allow anyone to fix it

and then they go out of their way to fuck over anyone who wants to provide alternatives to their shit by making it as hard as possible for other people to program on macs

ITT: people hate on Apple, which is wrong they are an awesome company with great products.

[QUOTE=whiteminority;18332448]ITT: people hate on Apple, which is wrong they are an awesome company with great products.[/QUOTE]

backed. i used to be all about pc....then i bought a mac about 2 weeks ago and love everything about it. its so much better IMO

yeah man macs are so nice when everything you can do on it is decided for you beforehand i mean you dont even have to choose between programs youve got one option that must clearly be the best or something


seriously dont waste your money just download ubuntu if you want ease

just saying. i have had both. i prefer mac.

you've got more than two options

[QUOTE=whiteminority;18332448]ITT: people hate on Apple, which is wrong they are an awesome company with great products.[/QUOTE]

how are they awesome, and what's great about their products?

I think they have done a good job at some of their hardware manufacturings, but the credit is in those cases not all Apple's. in the software department they have produced nothing but pure unmitigated shit, at least to the extent of my knowledge.

as for the company itself, it's just another corporate money-grabbing bully.

[QUOTE=burtreynolds;18332451]backed. i used to be all about pc....then i bought a mac about 2 weeks ago and love everything about it. its so much better IMO[/QUOTE]

this post doesn't even make sense. a mac? do you mean a Macintosh? if so - that *is* a PC.

[QUOTE=burtreynolds;18332491]just saying. i have had both. i prefer mac.[/QUOTE]

both what?

[QUOTE=christsimpson;18332516]
this post doesn't even make sense. a mac? do you mean a Macintosh? if so - that *is* a PC.[/QUOTE]

are you making the definition of personal computer a point
or are you trying to point out the hardware differences arent that big

who are "they"? what hardware? what difference? compared to the past? I don't know what any part of your post actually entails.

i edited

[QUOTE=Anglachel;18332529]are you making the definition of personal computer a point
or are you trying to point out the hardware differences arent that big[/QUOTE]

I am merely stating that the Macintosh computer in all its forms is a personal computer, and that the post did not make any sense. saying that a Macintosh is better than a PC, is like saying that a cow is better than a mammal.

as for hardware differences not being different... well... a Macintosh *is* a PC, so discussing hardware differences are logically impossible.

now if you'll excuse me imma watch some Star Trek.

most people dont think of macs as PCs (regardless of whats correct) and generally refer to them as systems running OSX and windows respectively

just trying to help because your point is kind of moot knowing that reynolds and ben are referring to them in this vernacular sense

saying "theyre the same thing" might not mean much...

This christsimpson guy is an idiot, has he not heard of tl;dr.

[QUOTE=christsimpson;18332543]I am merely stating that the Macintosh computer in all its forms is a personal computer, and that the post did not make any sense. saying that a Macintosh is better than a PC, is like saying that a cow is better than a mammal.

as for hardware differences not being different... well... a Macintosh *is* a PC, so discussing hardware differences are logically impossible.[/QUOTE]

based off of common terminology and the media....including windows and apple commercials.....pcs are everything other than mac's....thats what im going off of. common terminology.

This is like "United States of America" and "America." Sure, "America" doesn't technically mean just USA, but that's what most people think of when they hear the term. When most people hear the term "PC," they think of a Windows-based machine. Stop nitpicking.

[QUOTE=IgniteYourAvail;18332831]This is like "United States of America" and "America." Sure, "America" doesn't technically mean just USA, but that's what most people think of when they hear the term. When most people hear the term "PC," they think of a Windows-based machine. Stop nitpicking.[/QUOTE]

thank you!

apple is evil capitalists

but they make awesome shit

anyone into the marked men

no offense christsimpson but for real i read the last page... you come off a lot like this:

[url]http://www.wavsource.com/snds_2010-11-21_1584521671331348/tv/misc/peanuts_teacher.wav[/url]

i use itunes. i also have vlc which i use to play videos. i use itunes for music. it's easier for me to use

[QUOTE=Anglachel;18332560]most people dont think of macs as PCs (regardless of whats correct) and generally refer to them as systems running OSX and windows respectively

just trying to help because your point is kind of moot knowing that reynolds and ben are referring to them in this vernacular sense

saying "theyre the same thing" might not mean much...[/QUOTE]

well, that is wrong. I find that for a discussion to bear any meaning it needs to be correct. double so when it is a technical discussion.

[QUOTE=burtreynolds;18332664]based off of common terminology and the media....including windows and apple commercials.....pcs are everything other than mac's....thats what im going off of. common terminology.[/QUOTE]

common terminology by people who do not understand anything about computers and shouldn't be discussing them, perhaps. mainstream media being wrong is not a first either.

[QUOTE=IgniteYourAvail;18332831]This is like "United States of America" and "America." Sure, "America" doesn't technically mean just USA, but that's what most people think of when they hear the term. When most people hear the term "PC," they think of a Windows-based machine. Stop nitpicking.[/QUOTE]

the USA is not what comes to mind if someone says America to me - nor a bunch of other non-US citizens. that US citizens thinks that America = their country is cute, but inaccurate, nay, false.

you do know that you are arguing that terminology is not important on a hardcore/emo forum, right? let's talk about hardbeat techno and Fall Out Boy...

terminology needs to be correct for the conversation to have any meaning. Macintosh is a PC, and a PC certainly does not have to run Windows. mine doesn't, and yours shouldn't either.

[QUOTE=Matt?;18333048]no offense christsimpson but for real i read the last page... you come off a lot like this:

[url]http://www.wavsource.com/snds_2010-11-21_1584521671331348/tv/misc/peanuts_teacher.wav[/url]

i use itunes. i also have vlc which i use to play videos. i use itunes for music. it's easier for me to use[/QUOTE]

I'm listening to Navio Forge, and don't feel like putting it on pause. what's the gist of whatever you're linking me? if it's meant to be some kind of humorous reflection on the length of my post, then I resent it. a complex question needs a somewhat complex answer. you can't ask about the details of time travel, then expect a one-liner comeback...

iTunes is easier to use compared to what? I find it highly likely you don't know of any alternatives, which more often than not is the non-technical user's curse.


and @all of you - conducting oneself in a coherent and correct manner should not be frowned upon, nor the exception to the rule.

it's the teacher from peanuts...

and, yes i do know alternatives. i have vlc, i've used winamp before. i didn't say it was easier in general, i just have used itunes for like 6 years and i'm more used to it. idgaf

also how could you NOT think of USA when someone says America? we are the baddest mother f'ucking country you've ever seen. you're precious emo wouldn't even exist if it wasn't for us lol.

i personally know the man who invented the big mac. chew on that !!!!!!

apparently my link goes to amazon for some reason

heres a good substitute

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_e2H-xUtF50&feature=related[/url]

[QUOTE=Matt?;18333108]it's the teacher from peanuts...

and, yes i do know alternatives. i have vlc, i've used winamp before. i didn't say it was easier in general, i just have used itunes for like 6 years and i'm more used to it. idgaf

also how could you NOT think of USA when someone says America? we are the baddest mother f'ucking country you've ever seen. you're precious emo wouldn't even exist if it wasn't for us lol.
[/QUOTE]

Winamp sucks almost as bad as iTunes. use Clementine. or even Amarok would suffice.

emo would definitely surface in other countries without USA's help. and that's an uninteresting argument, because emo wouldn't exist if it weren't for [insert almost any country here, and think of almost any stupid argument to insert here].

you're nitpicking over minutiae, my friend andrew who is a computer engineering major/electrical engineering minor, who undoubtedly could talk circles around you on technology and computers, uses the common parlance of pc vs. mac, as a matter of fact that's part of the marketing campaign mac uses here in the US so it's part of our common speech to say such things. seeing how this is American primary message board it should be understood that the rhetoric on this site is going to conform with what is understood on a mass scale in this country.

[QUOTE=christsimpson;18333112]Winamp sucks almost as bad as iTunes. use Clementine. or even Amarok would suffice.

emo would definitely surface in other countries without USA's help. and that's an uninteresting argument, because emo wouldn't exist if it weren't for [insert almost any country here, and think of almost any stupid argument to insert here].[/QUOTE]

ok yes you could make a stupid arguement sure... you make a lot of those. but not only did american's invent the electric guitar, we also perfected hardcore music (and most other forms of rock music) the only country that comes close to America in terms of music is England but we still kick their asses over and over again. lets not even get started about indie music... (lol). the only shame music wise about America is that radiohead didn't form here...

would you like to talk about our badass navy? or how about this... YOU WOULDNT HAVE THE INTERNET WITH WHICH YOU DISCOVERED PUNK MUSIC if it wasn't for our BADASS CouNTRY

you seriously aren't thinking of the USA when you hear America? what other "american" country even comes remotely close to our badassness?

you wanna know what the norwegians invented? the cheese slicer. very nice very nice :smash: :smash: :smash: