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How can i get the black metal sounds of screaming?

I can get my voice all raspy and such but i cant get that dark sound to it.

[QUOTE=jan_thevaliant]Hey Merkaba

Please visit [url]www.purevolume.com/thevaliantaus[/url] and listen to the clips "The Scare - Cry Junkie" and "At The Drive-In - Cosmonaut". Now how would you go about switching from singing to screaming demonstrated in both of these clips? Because I have trouble going from singing clean to singing with a rasp or screaming. How can I make it so that the transition from singing to screaming present and make it smooth?

Regards,
Jan[/QUOTE]

holy sh*t, is that you singing at the drive in? lol or is it actually at the drive in... cuz if its you, it sounds really really awesome. i can match his voice but not that well. if its you that is:p

umm......im back.........i dunno whats wrong with me. i like.......lack tone in my voice? completely?

Merkaba, I've been having some vocal trouble lately. :(

Well for one, I don't read the singer's survival guide book as much as I should, or practice as much as I should. My motivation is kinda shot I guess. Not sure what to do. :(

But other than that (and maybe related to that), I seem to be having a problem keeping my voice loosened up. As you probably know, I've worked my range to a little over 3 octaves. I'm quite proud of it actually. It may be a little less now because I haven't practiced it though.
After I learned how to "bridge" my voice between chest, head, and falsetto, things were going great. It seemed as they there were no breaks between my voice.

But then after that, I decided I would rather increase my upper head voice range, instead of going into falsetto so early. Bands like Helloween, Iced Earth, and Sonata Arctica use insanely high head voices, and that's what drove me to improve my voice to that level, or as close as possible of course.
When I sing that high in my head voice though, my larynx is very high and my neck simply feels tight. I don't know how to relax it. I tried the robot face and stuff, I just don't know how to NOT make the larynx move. Is a little movement okay? Or should it always be still? I think I need help in this area. And I believe that's why my motivation has been nil because I feel that if I can't relax while singing my preferred style of music, meh.
As for my tone I think it sounds good, has a good amount of volume to it, but just from hearing myself I can "hear" my throat kind of straining, even though the note is coming out loud and clear. On the contrary, when I recorded it, it sounded much quieter than vocals in my other range, not sure if it really is quieter or if it's my $5 mic though.

If you can help me in any way, I'd greatly appreciate it. =) I'll do whatever it takes to improve upon this, even if it means starting over and working my range back up.

Otherwise.. the rest of my head voice and my chest voice are doing great. :thumb: I've just been discouraged to sing much. =/
Though I have been working on my growls now and then, I think I've [i]really[/i] excelled at that. It's kind of the same feel as falsetto (which I also do sometimes) but more like a whisper voice. Isolating, of course. :)

I have a few specific questions regarding the technique I'm using to get my harsh vocals (growling). I have been using the technique I do for about three months, and I don't practice too frequently. It's really not painful at all until I do it for longer than an hour, when it starts to get pretty uncomfortable. I basically use the technique I hear is most recommended: pushing from the diaphragm.

First, I can't get any length on them. I feel like I'm pushing quite a bit to get only about 7 or so seconds of pure growling. I uploaded a clip of me growling for as long as I can, starting with my lungs almost full.

[url]http://s62.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=28CNNBBCR5GFA2OS9XU57T7QFN[/url]

Second, I hate the tone I get when I scream. I rarely ever get any "note" in my growling, and I know how to stop it when I do, but I can't seem to stop a "note" from coming out when I scream. It feels like the "rasp" of the scream is getting more choppy as I open my mouth more and more, and the rasp is almost gone when I open my mouth as wide as I can. I uploaded a clip of me going from a growl into a scream, using the exact same technique but opening my mouth a lot more.

[url]http://s62.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=146LWO2EVNSLI1KM0CTTPDYF3G[/url]

This clip is one of me attempting a scream. You can clearly hear my regular singing voice coming through the scream.

[url]http://s62.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=2FB59KKX056IT0DHZRO57UGT44[/url]

This last clip is a bit redundant, but it demonstrates how the rasp gets more and more choppy as I open my mouth more.

[url]http://s62.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=211V4L8RGW0X40Z6I2UOZC9ET7[/url]

If you could tell me what I'm doing wrong or give me some advice, I'd really appreciate it. I'm not worried about my normal growling, just the length I can go for and the tone of my screaming. Thanks very much.

Sorry, this didn't get noticed in the stickied vocal thread, so I thought I'd give this thread a shot.

[QUOTE=Peg Dizzler]Merkaba, I've been having some vocal trouble lately. :(

Well for one, I don't read the singer's survival guide book as much as I should, or practice as much as I should. My motivation is kinda shot I guess. Not sure what to do. :(

But other than that (and maybe related to that), I seem to be having a problem keeping my voice loosened up. As you probably know, I've worked my range to a little over 3 octaves. I'm quite proud of it actually. It may be a little less now because I haven't practiced it though.
After I learned how to "bridge" my voice between chest, head, and falsetto, things were going great. It seemed as they there were no breaks between my voice.

But then after that, I decided I would rather increase my upper head voice range, instead of going into falsetto so early. Bands like Helloween, Iced Earth, and Sonata Arctica use insanely high head voices, and that's what drove me to improve my voice to that level, or as close as possible of course.
When I sing that high in my head voice though, my larynx is very high and my neck simply feels tight. I don't know how to relax it. I tried the robot face and stuff, I just don't know how to NOT make the larynx move. Is a little movement okay? Or should it always be still? I think I need help in this area. And I believe that's why my motivation has been nil because I feel that if I can't relax while singing my preferred style of music, meh.
As for my tone I think it sounds good, has a good amount of volume to it, but just from hearing myself I can "hear" my throat kind of straining, even though the note is coming out loud and clear. On the contrary, when I recorded it, it sounded much quieter than vocals in my other range, not sure if it really is quieter or if it's my $5 mic though.

If you can help me in any way, I'd greatly appreciate it. =) I'll do whatever it takes to improve upon this, even if it means starting over and working my range back up.

Otherwise.. the rest of my head voice and my chest voice are doing great. :thumb: I've just been discouraged to sing much. =/
Though I have been working on my growls now and then, I think I've [i]really[/i] excelled at that. It's kind of the same feel as falsetto (which I also do sometimes) but more like a whisper voice. Isolating, of course. :)[/QUOTE]
The more you think the more possibility of tension. To keep the larynx Relatively low, you have to think about pulling the cords back. Extreme reaches in head voice arent natural, and takes a bit of unnatural feel. I would say at this point, dont worry about the larynx. You'll know if its a problem if you start to lose stamina or get pain or more breaking notes. Be sure to warm up as you start to get back into it. Remember though that some of these guys can be tenors or high tenors. Yea, life isn't fair. But there are things they can do and can't. And the same with a baritone(most of us).

It can really take a while to see any improvement in head voice, and then to gain consistency is even longer. I say if you arent getting any pain or hoarsness then lay your ears back and let em have it.... and warm down. Post a sample if ya wanna.

[QUOTE=Merkaba]The more you think the more possibility of tension. To keep the larynx Relatively low, you have to think about pulling the cords back. Extreme reaches in head voice arent natural, and takes a bit of unnatural feel. I would say at this point, dont worry about the larynx. You'll know if its a problem if you start to lose stamina or get pain or more breaking notes. Be sure to warm up as you start to get back into it. Remember though that some of these guys can be tenors or high tenors. Yea, life isn't fair. But there are things they can do and can't. And the same with a baritone(most of us).

It can really take a while to see any improvement in head voice, and then to gain consistency is even longer. I say if you arent getting any pain or hoarsness then lay your ears back and let em have it.... and warm down. Post a sample if ya wanna.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, it seems to be tense when I just try to go really high with my head voice. Like when I sing in my car it sounds good to me but I guess it sounds quiet/gay when I hear it recorded. Haha.
And about pulling the cords back... is it kind of like "pulling down" feeling when singing in chest voice? Is that related to belting?

Also, how do I know I'm a tenor/high tenor? I could figure out the notes in my range if that helps..

[QUOTE=Peg Dizzler]Yeah, it seems to be tense when I just try to go really high with my head voice. Like when I sing in my car it sounds good to me but I guess it sounds quiet/gay when I hear it recorded. Haha.
And about pulling the cords back... is it kind of like "pulling down" feeling when singing in chest voice? Is that related to belting?

Also, how do I know I'm a tenor/high tenor? I could figure out the notes in my range if that helps..[/QUOTE]
Its hard to sing high in head voice(as opposed to falsetto) and not be tense. I can't off much but to say practice. I have a problem with locking the back of my neck....so i just try to be mindful of it when I'm practicing and try to sing the song I'm singing while going loose in my neck. Isolation.

The whole pulling back thing, I would say dont worry about it. Just be sure youre not thinking about your cords being vertical or in the back of your throat, as I used to!

Fach....just sing. Start on the G or A below middle C and rise up and see when you start to go into falsetto. Not how long you can stretch to stay in head, but when you naturally feel your cords wanted release. Basically a tenor should be able to comfortably hit the next C in normal head voice. I.e. tenor high C.

Well I think he should be able to sing tenor if he has a 3 octave range? Unless you can sing in the first octave which is insanely low lol..

Alright, I think I can help you out a bit, Toaster. :)

[QUOTE=Toaster]I have a few specific questions regarding the technique I'm using to get my harsh vocals (growling). I have been using the technique I do for about three months, and I don't practice too frequently. It's really not painful at all until I do it for longer than an hour, when it starts to get pretty uncomfortable. I basically use the technique I hear is most recommended: pushing from the diaphragm.

First, I can't get any length on them. I feel like I'm pushing quite a bit to get only about 7 or so seconds of pure growling. I uploaded a clip of me growling for as long as I can, starting with my lungs almost full.

[url]http://s62.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=28CNNBBCR5GFA2OS9XU57T7QFN[/url][/quote]
That sounded pretty good. Don't be surprised if you can't get them to last very long--I can't either. :p It requires alot of diaphragm muscle, and breath control. I remember when I first started screaming I could literally only hold them for 2 seconds. My first I learned to properly scream, I did them constantly for 2 hours on end. My throat and all felt fine, but my stomach hurt! That was because I was pushing my diaphragm so much when it wasn't used to that, I think. So I had to build it up alot. There's some good breathing exercises the book I have, "The Rock N Roll Singers Survival Manual". I'm not very good with "breath control" myself though, so I need to work on that, as well as build up my diaphragm more. I know this local band who hold out these guttoral screams for insanely long. At first I thought they were breathing inward because they were so long, but I asked them and they said it's all outward and they just had to build up their diaphragm and use breath control.

[QUOTE=Toaster]Second, I hate the tone I get when I scream. I rarely ever get any "note" in my growling, and I know how to stop it when I do, but I can't seem to stop a "note" from coming out when I scream. It feels like the "rasp" of the scream is getting more choppy as I open my mouth more and more, and the rasp is almost gone when I open my mouth as wide as I can. I uploaded a clip of me going from a growl into a scream, using the exact same technique but opening my mouth a lot more.

[url]http://s62.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=146LWO2EVNSLI1KM0CTTPDYF3G[/url]

This clip is one of me attempting a scream. You can clearly hear my regular singing voice coming through the scream.

[url]http://s62.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=2FB59KKX056IT0DHZRO57UGT44[/url]

This last clip is a bit redundant, but it demonstrates how the rasp gets more and more choppy as I open my mouth more.

[url]http://s62.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=211V4L8RGW0X40Z6I2UOZC9ET7[/url]

If you could tell me what I'm doing wrong or give me some advice, I'd really appreciate it. I'm not worried about my normal growling, just the length I can go for and the tone of my screaming. Thanks very much.

Sorry, this didn't get noticed in the stickied vocal thread, so I thought I'd give this thread a shot.[/QUOTE]
I thought those all sounded good, tbh. At first when I read your post I thought I'd hear alot of head voice in these recordings. But honestly, I'm not hearing much, if any. That's what all my screams sound like. I always tell people that everyone has a different screaming tone, just like a different tone a voice. I mean, if you're into like the "hardcore" scream, well, I can see why you don't like it. :p But to me that sounded very European-ish, like alot of black and death metal bands. I prefer that tone.
But if you can feel that your "singing voice" is shining through on those screams, practice falsetto first. Sing notes in falsetto. Pretend you're in a hair metal band. Anything. Then add the rasp on top of that, little by little, making sure you're in falsetto. That's how I learned--that way, it taught my voice to always be in falsetto once I decided to do a scream. Muscle memory, I suppose.
But really, I don't see much of a problem. I think it sounds great. I've heard alot of screams that sound that way, and yet I can tell they're doing it right, because I hear no head voice. Mine pretty much sound that way. I suppose that you'd be doing them wrong if you had alot of phlegm while doing that, or if you just ate fast food or pizza or something greasy. That creates a fake rasp--really choppy, too. I've tried it. :p

Here's another theory of mine...
I've been thinking this for awhile now, but not sure if it's true. I think.. that the "hardcore" style of scream, was learned from yelling/singing loud with rasp, and accidently going into falsetto, if at all. It's my theory that although they may me doing it right, they "learned by accident", or simply by pushing really hard (not a good idea). Think, oh, maybe Atreyu or some other crap (imo) mainstream "hardcore" band.

It's also my theory that the black/death metal style of screaming, or even the screams in some nu metal believe it or not, were learned in the proper way because I can hear plenty of rasp, not very much pushing, and no head voice. The main point here is that they don't have to push hard, because they're using the right technique and amount of rasp--which seems to be the opposite of hardcore, those guys seem to strain themselves, and I can hear it every time.
Remember, that's not fact, that's just been my little theory for awhile now. But anyway, sorry for the long post! Just make sure you're in falsetto, and that you warmup, and I think your screams sound [i]great[/i]!

[QUOTE=Merkaba]Its hard to sing high in head voice(as opposed to falsetto) and not be tense. I can't off much but to say practice. I have a problem with locking the back of my neck....so i just try to be mindful of it when I'm practicing and try to sing the song I'm singing while going loose in my neck. Isolation.

The whole pulling back thing, I would say dont worry about it. Just be sure youre not thinking about your cords being vertical or in the back of your throat, as I used to!

Fach....just sing. Start on the G or A below middle C and rise up and see when you start to go into falsetto. Not how long you can stretch to stay in head, but when you naturally feel your cords wanted release. Basically a tenor should be able to comfortably hit the next C in normal head voice. I.e. tenor high C.[/QUOTE]
I see. Well if that's the case, then I guess I don't have a problem except not practicing enough! :p I nearly stopped singing altogether because I was disappointed I couldn't sing in that area without tensing up. I thought I'd have to back up and rework my technique, which is why I stopped. :(
I will work on that then..

And about my range. I'm not really sure how to name these notes (like.. G4) haha, I'm a n00b..
But.. I started with the G below middle C (fret 3 on the 6th string of guitar too) and I could easily hit the C an octave above middle C. From there I could also easily hit the high G, 2 octaves above the G I started on. After that, if I allow it, my voice "naturally" goes into falsetto on the high A. But if I "stretch" my head voice higher, right now (without warming up) I can hit the C that's 2 octaves above middle C in head voice. Maybe farther if I warmup but I wouldn't know right now.
So that's what I was referring to, was that area that's TWO octaves above the middle C. It seems that I've "trained" my voice to push up my head voice that high, but with a bit of tightness. I guess there's nothing to be worried about then if that's a good range. :D Or if I can eliminate alot of that tension with practice. I was just afraid of it getting worse and, well, training my voice to tense up. It's just that the bands I listed, can go INSANELY high with their head voice, I covet that!!

Maybe I'll post a clip sometime.. although I get the impression that my $5 mic doesn't pick up high frequencies very well.

I think its important to be careful though with your high stuff Peg Dizzler. Everyone's voice can do certain things well and other things not well or even not at all. No voice can do everything and if you keep going higher and higher with more and more push (which will probably happen if your not careful about it) then you may find you lose quality or even your complete ability in parts of your voice. I'll give you some examples:

Mariah Carey. I don't like her very much at all but she is considered to be one of the best singers of our time. However, because of her excessive use of whistle register incorrectly and pushing chest up to high and loud shes now lost a lot of tone quality. Most of her stuff is done now in an extremely weak and annoying breathy sound and anything high in chest and head voice sounds extremely strained. Also her whistle register is becoming weaker and less consistent it seems.

Rob Halford. One of my favorite singers of all time along with Geoff Tate and James LaBrie. In the older records up to Hell Bent for Leather he could sing pretty even in a clean or distorted tone throughout his range and hit incredibly high notes. But then he slowly started losing the ability to mix chest and head at all, to sing a lot of stuff above a certain pitch cleany, and several other things. I still think he's better than 99% of metal singers out there but he has lost quite a bit. Somes from smoking, but most is from pushing and squeezing incorrectly too much. If you want an example, listen to when he filled in for Dio with Sabbath in the 90s. Its on Limewire and even though the quality isn't too great, you can still hear what a struggle it is for him to sing in his midrange in a relaxed way. Heaven and Hell is the song im thinking of I believe.

Theres many more examples but I don't have the time to list them all. Its cool you can get that high and should should keep doing it, but do it with a lot of focus. Make sure your extremely warmed up and your not squeezing your throat up too much. It's good though to push and challenge yourself, but don't drill those notes for hours on end. I only attempt my very top note (soprano high c) when I am extremely warmed up and loose. Good luck and keep working with Baxter's book it'll help a lot.

About numbering, the way I think it's done most of the time is:
Middle C= C4
Tenor High C=C5
Soprano High C=C6

[QUOTE=Peg Dizzler]Alright, I think I can help you out a bit, Toaster. :)[/QUOTE]

Thanks a lot for the help, I'll try that falsetto thing you mentioned. :)

If you can do a C6 is head voice, it's like beyond amazing. I still can't access my head voice, but my falsetto stretches to about Ab5 then I access whistle which takes my to about C7. But my full voice ends on G#4 so that sucks alot. I really need to work on my head voice.

Screamin_Demon_Auz, is your speaking voice bass-baritone? How did you access your head voice, and how long did it take you? Can you tell me what lessons (if they're off the internet or books/cds/dvds) you took?

K thanks!

Screamin Demon, thanks a bunch for your input. I know you're into the same type of vocals as me, or at least I think so. :) I'm a big fan of Halford too. I know his voice has deteriorated some, but wouldn't alot of it be from age?

I don't like Mariah Carey much either but I do know she has a good voice. I didn't know it was getting worse though. I can't do whistle notes, but aren't those about squeezing the vocal cords so much that the air actually whistles through them?

Squeezing my throat too much is exactly what I'm worried about when doing those high notes. I know I should warm up more, too. I'll really have to start being careful with that. Is there anything else I can do to help relax it? It seems that it's hard to prevent tension sometimes. In the past couple of days it didn't seem as bad though, as I was really trying to relax.
Merkaba mentioned pulling back or pulling down on the cords. Does that mean, kinda like pulling the larynx down as if it were chest voice, but using your upper range? I've been doin that a bit and it seems to help somewhat, but that could be bad, I dunno.

And about the numbering.. as I don't have a keyboard around I'm not really sure. But if middle C (C4) is the 8th fret on the 6th string (low E string) of a guitar, then yes I can hit a C two octaves above that in head voice. Hmm..

Peg,
age only takes out range because lack of flexibility. That happens from not singing as often, improper technique, or just plain getting old like you said. Halford has consistently been singing with no long periods of retirement or anything so its not that, and you only lose the very highest note or two when you get older, not your midrange like has happened to him. He can still do it, but its not that good at all.

Do things like lip trills, open vowels like AH (as in father of course), and vowels on MUM with a very hollow tone. If you do them correctly all 3 will help to keep the larynx stationary. Your larynx will always rise a bit as you get into the higher stuff but when it gets to the point of you feeling the back of your throat closing up from the larynx rising, your doing too much. It won't kill you to do that every once in a while for effect, most things in moderation vocally wont kill you, but if thats how you always sing then it's going to start narrowing your range and your tonal quality.

Your right about whistle. Your cords completely zip up to where theres just a tiny crack which air goes through creating the tone. Pretty much the same setup as your lips when you whistle.

Surgicalgod,

Im a baritone. But voice types really don't matter because its not about the range; it's the tonal quality of your voice. You can sing lower, and just as high (sometimes higher) but it won't be as shrill and therefore won't sound as high as a tenor doing it. Think of a clarinet and a flute playing the same note. The flute will sound higher because of the smaller vibrating space. Tenors= thinner,smaller cords. Baritones=thicker,longer cords.

I have taken video lessons with Mark Baxter for 3 years now. I am thinking of taking lessons this summer with Jaime Vendera as well who most people probably know; if not check him out and get both of his books. [url]www.thevoiceconnection.com[/url]

I bought the program a few weeks ago called Singing Success by Brett Manning. Its $200 but well spent. It's gimmick is a promised octave addition and i'm up to 2 notes short of the full octave gain. The notes are soft and weak but over time will develop. If you can afford it, get it because it's probably the next best thing to having a teacher available.

I also have a lot of other books, but the best ones are:
The Rock N Roll Singers Survival Manual by Mark Baxter
Raise Your Voice by Jaime Vendera
Sing For The Stars by Seth Riggs
Secrets Of Singing by Jeffery Allen
and
Pro Secrets of Heavy Rock Singing by Bill Martin just because its interesting.

The DVD's I have are quite good too. They are
Rock Your Vox by Rose Coppola
The Zen of Screaming by Melissa Cross
and
Vocal Power by Jim Gillette

I know this is a lot of stuff, and most of it I don't really work with daily. I just do it when I have a specific problem. But they all are good to get as alternatives to a teacher, or if you just happen to get free money on a holiday you have nothing else to spend it on.

Head voice is tricky. It's been hit and miss for me for a while now. The thing is, if you do an AH 5 tone scale completely relaxed and without increasing volume as you go higher, you'll get to head voice but it'll be pretty weak and similar to falsetto. But the more you push and pull chest voice up when you sing, you start to lose head voice for that day because of swelling. I think its more important to just get a good even sound throughout your range using scales and glissandos and just let your vocal cords do their job and change registers reflexivley. When you think too much, thats when you push chest up and never get to head voice.

Damn, 3 years with Mark Baxter! He's one of the best.

I bought the Brett Manning CDs 2 weeks ago but I'm kinda stuck on the first CD cause I dunno if I'm entering head voice or not. My high notes are sounding just like the ones in the example, except when I try to prove that's it's head voice and do it in falsetto, it sounds just the same.

Today I did this ascending sirenish thing starting from E2-C6 and I didn't get any breaks or noticable shift in volume like what happens when you switch into falsetto. Falsetto is a whole different coordination right? So it's not supposed to sound all smooth and connected with that.

So you see why I'm confused? On one hand my falsetto resonates well enough to sound like head voice, and on the other I'm not breaking while doing sirens now.

By the way, how old are you?

;Falsetto as examples by a lot of vocal teachers (including Manning I believe) is BS. They do a very breathy demonstration that really is just terrible. Yeah I guess its falsetto but theres a way (which is what I think your doing and is what I do ) to build strength in falsetto. My falsetto is pretty rich souding on stuff like screams and just going up a scale. Don't worry if its head or falsetto because if you build tone in your falsetto, there wont be too much of a difference; especially on exercises.

The shift isn't really SUPPOSED to happen; it just does for people who are ignorant about falsetto and don't use it correctly. Your obviously doing it right which is why it's smooth and connected so good job. Falsetto isn't considered true singing by a lot of people because thats what they've heard from the know all's of classical music. Unless your a countertenor thats true, but only for classical. Falsetto is used by pretty much all singers when they scream, used in R&B a lot, etc. plus Baxter is quite big on it as well and of course I would trust his opinion over anyone else in rock singing. Keep at just doing the notes you want without worrying what register it is. The only time it's important is around the break you should be mixing the 2 so you dont strain unless your belting for style purposes.

Im 16

Oh and for the Manning CDs do each of them for 7 days and after that if you can do all the exercises well even if your going into falsetto move on. If not keep going until you do it. You don't have to stick on the CDs forever and if you find out maybe you've gone too fast and aren't ready for the next lesson, go back to the previous one again for a week.

Yeah I know, they all make falsetto sounds like it's too breathy and weak. Mine is quite strong I guess, but still is there such a thing as a falsetto-chest mix? :confused: I mean they're two different things, and if you're doing falsetto instead of head voice then you have to pull up chest for those middle notes.

I can make my falsetto sound like head voice (the singers on the CDs) but I'm worried about is the mix..

Peg...Let me make sure youre straight on this.

C4 middle C, or standard tuning on the guitar, fifth fret 3rd(G) string, where the dot should be. Now if youre hitting two octaves above this(fret 20, high e string) in head then youre truly gifted and I really want to hear a sample! Unless youre a female soprano then I say its highly impossible or youre confused. Are you sure about this?

Maybe he's hittin it in whistle or falsetto?

I think its always better to measure range on a piano/keyboard than a guitar because it does get confusing. Find a virtual one on the net or even the piano on Guitar Pro if you have that program.

It's impossible to mix chest and falsetto. You can mix chest and head which is called middle/ or mixed voice. You can add extra breath and volume to get more tone and somewhat mix it resonance wise with head voice and its called reinforced falsetto which is really what a lot of screams are. Many people argue for hours that metal singers scream in full voice, but in most cases its falsetto or reinforced falsetto. Its not worth arguing over though; whats always more important is that your getting the sound you want and getting it as safely as can be done.

[QUOTE]It's impossible to mix chest and falsetto.[/QUOTE]

Yeah thought so. I'm actually embarassed I even brought it up lol.
Basically what I do to get a more resonating falsetto is give it more volume and it just sounds better on its own, so is that reinforced falsetto?

Today, I was doin some "nay nay nay" exercises and on the Ab4 --> notes I had a 'ringy' feeling in my head that I've never had before, is that what head voice feels like?

Tell me if I'm askin too much lol...

Yeah thats more than likely reinforced falsetto. It's what I do as well for a lot of stuff.

The ringing was the resonation of either mix or head voice. They both will ring it the same places (the different areas of your face), so you just go by the sound. If its a lighter and higher tone thats head voice, but if theres some deeper, chestier overtones to it then that would be mix. Whatever it is, the feeling of the ringing is a good sign and keep it up. The very first exercise (humming) in Singing Success are extremely good for resonation and feeling what different notes feel like when you place them correctly. Do that one often; it's actually good to do it first thing when you wake up to help clear out and prepare your voice for the day.

[QUOTE=Surgicalgod]Today I did this ascending sirenish thing starting from E2-C6 and I didn't get any breaks or noticable shift in volume like what happens when you switch into falsetto. Falsetto is a whole different coordination right? So it's not supposed to sound all smooth and connected with that.

So you see why I'm confused? On one hand my falsetto resonates well enough to sound like head voice, and on the other I'm not breaking while doing sirens now.[/QUOTE]
That's definitely a good thing, it takes a bit of work to "connect" all the voices. I'm not sure how I did it or how long it took, but I think I owe it alot to the glissando exercises (and Merkaba!).

[QUOTE=Surgicalgod]I can make my falsetto sound like head voice (the singers on the CDs) but I'm worried about is the mix..[/QUOTE]
When you say make your falsetto sound like head voice, you mean you're adding volume to make it sound more "full", right?
Like if you sing in falsetto really softly, it kind of sounds like a whisper, but if you [i]push[/i] it a bit more.. it sounds kinda fuller, hehe, is that what you're doing? If not, tell me your secret. :)

[QUOTE=Merkaba]Peg...Let me make sure youre straight on this.

C4 middle C, or standard tuning on the guitar, fifth fret 3rd(G) string, where the dot should be. Now if youre hitting two octaves above this(fret 20, high e string) in head then youre truly gifted and I really want to hear a sample! Unless youre a female soprano then I say its highly impossible or youre confused. Are you sure about this?[/QUOTE]

Oh I would post a recording but I have no mic, and I just caught a cold today.

*lame excuse that's a lie anyway* :D
Haha. No, you're totally right, Merk. I am confused. For some reason I thought middle C was an octave lower on the guitar. I don't have a piano/keyboard around when I practice vocals (I really should though), so forgive me for the mix-up folks.
But as of this week, without warming up, I can "stretch" my head voice to a C, fret 8 on the high E string. So yeah, ONE octave above middle C (I think!). While my falsetto goes up to something like an A, fret 17... kinda tense though, I shouldn't do that..

I was hoping someone here could help me out, I've posted a few times but I never really got anything solid. In my band, I sing a cover song that we do, and I'd like to start singing backup vocals on other songs, but as of now I can't really sing at all. I can control my voice barely, but I have no idea how to hit notes and such, and I always sound like I'm talking heatedly rather than singing. I want to learn how to get my voice under control and actually sound musical.

Page 1 on this thread.

Merkaba posted a whole bunch of good exercises. Always start with the vowels if you're going to start singing, do the EE's and Ah's etc... Those will help you get the 'musical feel', I doubt that you feel like you're talking them.

Also, take your time and practice, practice, practice. Record your singing to hear what it really sounds like outside of your head. Don't delete your recordings, leave them for future motivation. Do the exercises everyday, and I think you'll start noticing some changes in a few weeks.

Good luck, and if you need any more help please be more specific so we know what exactly you're looking for. Maybe if you record a sample?

The problem with that is he's talking about doing vowels at various notes and octaves and whatnot, but I have no idea how to hit notes and what my range is or anything.

Well I've been reading through these threads for a few hours now, and have been picking up quite a bit of information. I do have one small question regarding falsetto and screaming though.

I'm a huge Blind Guardian fan, for those who know of them, and the lead singer, Hansi, can go pretty high, and does excellent metal screams- but his notes don't sound like a regular falsetto (cartoony)... they sound pure and smooth. So I read into the whole Speech Level Singing stuff, and about headvoice and how you should be using it instead of falsetto.

Well, if I sing high, I have to go in falsetto, else I'm just struggling in the chest. If i go very quiet, I can blend the chest into the falsetto- but apparently when you achieve that, that's your head voice.... Yet is sound the exact same as my falsetto, if not worse because I can only do it very very quietly.

Can anyone post some sound clips of singing in head voice? And then singing in falsetto? And then each in a scream / rasp?

Thanks a lot guys

[QUOTE=StormX]The problem with that is he's talking about doing vowels at various notes and octaves and whatnot, but I have no idea how to hit notes and what my range is or anything.[/QUOTE]
it doesnt matter. Do what you can. Start off in your normal speaking range and try to sing notes in that range. That and the lip trills/motorboats to get your diaphragm working in coordination with your breath support and larynx. Basically you want to make your lips flutter like youre a kid making a motor sound. Now you do this on all vowels(ay,ee,ah,oh,uu,I) yes your mouth will be closed but still position your cords for the vowel and make it, keep your teeth together at first if you need to then work on doing them with your teeth far apart, mouth still closed..but you want to keep the lips fluttering with no breaks. They will increase and decrease with pitch, but you want them to be consistent. This is a very important exercise for a beginner. Mix it up and have fun with it but remember the feeling, so you can translate into regular notes.

[QUOTE=Merkaba]it doesnt matter. Do what you can. Start off in your normal speaking range and try to sing notes in that range. That and the lip trills/motorboats to get your diaphragm working in coordination with your breath support and larynx. Basically you want to make your lips flutter like youre a kid making a motor sound. Now you do this on all vowels(ay,ee,ah,oh,uu,I) yes your mouth will be closed but still position your cords for the vowel and make it, keep your teeth together at first if you need to then work on doing them with your teeth far apart, mouth still closed..but you want to keep the lips fluttering with no breaks. They will increase and decrease with pitch, but you want them to be consistent. This is a very important exercise for a beginner. Mix it up and have fun with it but remember the feeling, so you can translate into regular notes.[/QUOTE]
Alright, thanks, I'll start working on that.

Hey Merk or anyone else that can help...I have a question about the song Punish my Heaven by Dark Tranquility. When he sings does he use the falsetto rasp that you've talked about in your screaming threads or is that a death metal growl? It doesn't sound like normal death metal growls that I've heard (Opeth sounding) but it doesn't seem to be high pitched enough to be in falsetto. I've never been able to do the falsetto rasp you've talked about for some reason so I don't know exactly what it sounds like, but it just doesn't seem right. Maybe it's just that his voice is just naturally higher pitched, but i'm not sure...elightenment would be great. :)

I can't help you with that, but I know you'll get a really better chance of getting an answer if you post a sample. You can post the part of the song where he does the falsetto screams, or if you don't know how to cut the song, upload the whole thing and tell us when the screams start.

[QUOTE=Surgicalgod]I can't help you with that, but I know you'll get a really better chance of getting an answer if you post a sample. You can post the part of the song where he does the falsetto screams, or if you don't know how to cut the song, upload the whole thing and tell us when the screams start.[/QUOTE]

Alright, I'll upoad the song soon...is it against the rules to post the link here, or should i send it out to emails or what?

Post a small sample here, not the whole song. I'm on dialup.

Most people use Yousendit or soundclick or something like that.

[QUOTE=Merkaba]Post a small sample here, not the whole song. I'm on dialup.

Most people use Yousendit or soundclick or something like that.[/QUOTE]

I'm not exactly sure how to cut a sample out of a song...I'll search the net for it though, and hopefully figure it out...if not i'll have to upload the whole thing

I'll edit this post with a link later tonight hopefully.

Edit: Ok...here's the link :

[url]http://s65.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=2OHRMT587EF3A3EQWBQKRZ5QFA[/url]

Really in general I'm just wondering what kind of screaming he uses thorughout, but especially at the chorus thing around 49sec-1min, and then at like 3:00-3:16...Thanks. I'm a noob as far as this screaming stuff goes

whatever's clever

Hey, ive read a lot of your posts and it seems really helpfull but i cant seem to get myself to sing from the gut and i think thats probably the start of my problems. I dont think im the worst singer ever but i dont think im at all decent. Id love to be able to sing like either gerard way, lead singer of lost prophets or billy joe. something like that. anything you tell me will be much appreciated!

heres an accapella i did of helena (its really bad but i can usually do slightly better, not much though so thats pretty much it) [url]http://s60.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=011P3LCVVUGJ101WT4NEH2L3R1[/url]

or you can listen to 2 of my songs online that i sang on but the recording is bad so you cant hear properly and my friend also sings on them so its kind of a mess but thats at [url]www.soundclick.com/codeword[/url] its only the top 2 songs (the 1s that arent covers)

THANKS

Dont have much time right now but the whole lip trills/motorboats exercise is key for getting in touch with the diaphragm. It should be on this or the last few pages.