[QUOTE=Uprooted]Okay, I tried posting on the other one of these...got no help whatsoever so far, except being told to go to a doctor. I have a strong singing voice, very similar to Danzig during the Lucifuge and How the Gods Kill albums. I'm doing harder music right now, with guitars inspired from death and black metal styles. I want to get a scream like Devin Townsend's of Strapping Young Lad, albeit within the confines of my own voice to go with the more aggressive music and lyrics I've been generating. He's got a wide range of sounds he produces and he can still sing, that is pretty much what I want.

Here's the problem. I tried the methods detailed in a a couple of forums on screaming and for me it just doesn't work. Even if I get a scream started, it phases back into a strong clean tone.

I used to do growling death metal type stuff, probably overly throat projecting. I have no gag reflex anymore. Still, my voice is far stronger then it used to be while singing, I just can't get a scream out. Any ideas?[/QUOTE]
Got a sample?

Hi there. I have a couple questions, if anyone can answer them. I hope they haven't been asked already, I didn't really want to search through the entire thread to check.
First, just to get things clear, is it not supposed to hurt at all after I scream? 'Cause if so, I'm doing it wrong :rolleyes:
Second, maybe I just need more practice, but it seems like whenever I try to put any force into my falsetto, it becomes full voice. I can get my full voice sounding good, put some grit in it and I'm happy with the sound of that, but I don't want to ruin my vocal chords, so any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
ES

[QUOTE=echoed_song]Hi there. I have a couple questions, if anyone can answer them. I hope they haven't been asked already, I didn't really want to search through the entire thread to check.
First, just to get things clear, is it not supposed to hurt at all after I scream? 'Cause if so, I'm doing it wrong :rolleyes:
Second, maybe I just need more practice, but it seems like whenever I try to put any force into my falsetto, it becomes full voice. I can get my full voice sounding good, put some grit in it and I'm happy with the sound of that, but I don't want to ruin my vocal chords, so any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
ES[/QUOTE]
You should never have pain. Ever. Stop whatever youre doing. And go to this link.... [url]http://www.musicianforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=286232[/url]

You need to learn isolation. If youre zipping your cords closed when you try to add force then youre combining some muscles that dont need to be combined. If you can zip up a high falsetto note into full voice that means youre pretty strong but your cords are the thinnest at higher pitches and more vulnerable to pressure. And if youre trying to scream a note that should be falsetto for you, but youre squeezing it into full voice you can really run into some problems and future damage. You can work that into your vocal workouts but not with alot of push, especially not with a scream push! So please be careful and do some research. Be sure to work on isolation and doing excersizes that allow you to feel your natural falsetto point so you know what you voice you need to use for any given note. This will come automatically after a while.

Glad I asked right away. Though really, the sore throat I've had all day is a bit of a giveaway heh. Shoulda known.
Question though: You said "A note that should be falsetto for you". I thought, from what I read here, that a good scream is not in fact a scream at all so much as a powerful falsetto note, or something? Sorry if I'm not getting this so well... I've only been singing for a year or two, and I always have trouble understanding any aspect of music with words.
Anyway, I will read through those links and keep what you said in mind. Thanks very much for the help.
ES

a scream is a note, done rather wildly with alot of distortion...thats the way i see it. I'm from the country so i guess the lower notes could be called a hollar....
hehe
Well it depends on what kind of scream youre going for. Some screams are straight falsetto. Most people are trying to get a mudvayne or chino or maynard or phil or Cornell "scream" Those are usually falsetto but with a big relaxed throat and the air is scraped off the back of the throat which makes it sound all screamish. But its a matter of knowing what you want and how much vocal cord activation you want to put into the sound. i.e. do you want it to sound like static in key, hehe, or a loud girly like note with rasp... Half of those screams, if done with just the pure tone would be just another note....its the manipulation of the larynx and back of the throa,t or soft palet, that makes it sound so screamy and blasted...it doesnt come from the cords. Of course remember that your soft palet will get irritated and sore also especially if you dont work this stuff out enough. All of the extra air and force irritates that area. So be sure its your cords and not the top of your throat. if its your cords it will be around the adams apple area. And is your speaking voice hoarse or raspy? if so its more of a cords problem or both. If you think its just your palet then its just virgin tissue getting pressure blasted like you would do a sidewalk. ouch

Wow. There's a whole lot of knowledge in that post that I don't posess, but I will try to get your gist, heh. And btw thanks again for all the help man, I have literally no one I can ask about this stuff, and since I also have no one else who can sing for me, I really need to learn it.
As for scream types, I'm thinking Nirvana, mostly, since I'm a big fan of them and I really like Kurt's usage of volume, distortion, and screaming to emphasise things--I try to emulate that. Not sure what category that falls into. I'm not doing anything too heavy, I just want to be able to put some grit and volume into a song, to help express emotion etc.
I'm not really sure how to tell if I'm using my palet or what (not really sure what a palet is, actually...) but I can tell you that my voice hasn't been hoarse or raspy, though I've done a lot of throat-clearing and had a mildly sore throat all day, so kind of on the edge of it. I'm betting I'm using my cords, which I take it I shouldn't be.
I don't know if it's possible, and I do know it's probably asking a lot, but can you explain in what way the larynx/palet are manipulated to get the screamy blasted effect? Any kind of rough idea would be great. But you've already helped lots, so thank you regardless, I won't mind if you don't want to go through all this with me heh.
Thanks again.
ES

Hey man, those high pitched feedback sounding screams that Chino from the Deftones can pull off, that's using a falsetto voice right?

I wish I could scream but I don't think I have much of a talent for it.

[QUOTE=gaslight]Hey man, those high pitched feedback sounding screams that Chino from the Deftones can pull off, that's using a falsetto voice right?

I wish I could scream but I don't think I have much of a talent for it.[/QUOTE]
Yea falsetto, but its usually a supported falsetto, meaning you tense the cords like youre going to sing true voice but you do the falsetto, it gives it more body and tone and ..well support. and once you find the muscles you need to use, its not much talent. Its a matter of training yourself to use the muscles in your larynx independently. For that type of stuff you should be able to get the general sound at almost speaking volume. Again, its as if youre trying to sing high and whisper at the same time. You have to let the cords relax and make sure you have the adams apple(larynx aka voicebox) relaxed and not squeezed up. If you squeeze it, tense it up, or cant isolate the vocal cord actions from the larynx muscles, you can chalk it up. But that thing is anyone can learn it with time.

Ah cool. Whenever I try to scream I always end up like choking/coughing.

[QUOTE=echoed_song]Wow. There's a whole lot of knowledge in that post that I don't posess, but I will try to get your gist, heh. And btw thanks again for all the help man, I have literally no one I can ask about this stuff, and since I also have no one else who can sing for me, I really need to learn it.
As for scream types, I'm thinking Nirvana, mostly, since I'm a big fan of them and I really like Kurt's usage of volume, distortion, and screaming to emphasise things--I try to emulate that. Not sure what category that falls into. I'm not doing anything too heavy, I just want to be able to put some grit and volume into a song, to help express emotion etc.
I'm not really sure how to tell if I'm using my palet or what (not really sure what a palet is, actually...) but I can tell you that my voice hasn't been hoarse or raspy, though I've done a lot of throat-clearing and had a mildly sore throat all day, so kind of on the edge of it. I'm betting I'm using my cords, which I take it I shouldn't be.
I don't know if it's possible, and I do know it's probably asking a lot, but can you explain in what way the larynx/palet are manipulated to get the screamy blasted effect? Any kind of rough idea would be great. But you've already helped lots, so thank you regardless, I won't mind if you don't want to go through all this with me heh.
Thanks again.
ES[/QUOTE]

The soft pallet is the back of your throat like if you were to make a straight line up from your airpipe. The hard palet is the roof of your mouth. But i was saying that it may be the soft that is actually hurting and not your cords. Does your throat hurt when you sing? Without a screaming force, but just normally slide up and down in true voice and see if there is any discomfort. It might not be your cords thats hurting. It may be your soft palet getting irritated from all the air.

The way to make sure youre not using your cords to distort the sound (something you really cant do unless youre just pushing way too hard) is to try to get whatever type of rasp or sound you want with 50% or 60% of push. YOu dont have to push hard if you use technique to get any kind of tone. And alot of guys you see on stage screaming are adding emotion to it, and are straining more to keep their larynx open, and not to push the note. That strain actually takes some of the emotion for the singer, because we all want to be forceful and emote when we sing hard edged stuff, but if you can isolate your muslces , which you will have to be able to do eventually, then you can channel that energy into pulling the larynx down and keeping it open, and still letting the cords be relaxed and flexible. That takes time to learn for those that maybe cant do it yet. BUt its no miracle. What helped me is that i learned that the cords are horizontal and they stretch out and in horizontally, that and doing isolation exercises, and a lot of trial and error which I'm trying to minimize for folks here. it just helped me realize what i was doing and needed to do, as far as muslces go.

But dont get me wrong, I mean as you get stronger, youre gonna be pushing pretty hard and stuff...but if you dont know exactly what youre doing yet, its best to work slowly so that you can lean to work the muscles and tissue and not fatigue them before they've had a chance to workout. :wave:

[QUOTE=gaslight]Ah cool. Whenever I try to scream I always end up like choking/coughing.[/QUOTE]
Thats cause youre irritating your cords and they think there's something on them so they start that reflex. you should work witht the isolation exercises alot. I mean some of it is stuff you can do while youre watching t.v. or sitting in class or something.

Ok I've tried to implement as much of the advise as I can but it just doesn't seem 2 work for me at all lol. I just can't get my head round a lot of things.

I've attached a quick recording of my scream. Now I KNOW I'm doing it wrong and I also KNOW it's crap but I really want to try and get something good enough to do the odd bit of backing vocals so I was wondering if anyone could tell me exactly what is wrong so I know where to work. I also know that I need 2 improve my breathing drastically. Is there any hope for me? And does it sound as bad as I think it does?

By the way, it doesn't hurt my throat.

Cheerz,
Mike

[QUOTE=Speedhorn666]Ok I've tried to implement as much of the advise as I can but it just doesn't seem 2 work for me at all lol. I just can't get my head round a lot of things.

I've attached a quick recording of my scream. Now I KNOW I'm doing it wrong and I also KNOW it's crap but I really want to try and get something good enough to do the odd bit of backing vocals so I was wondering if anyone could tell me exactly what is wrong so I know where to work. I also know that I need 2 improve my breathing drastically. Is there any hope for me? And does it sound as bad as I think it does?

By the way, it doesn't hurt my throat.

Cheerz,
Mike[/QUOTE]

hehe...dont bash yourself up so much. Its not that bad. Ok so theres no pain. and it should be comfortable and fun to do...really. Now the only other thing is that it sounds like youre not closing the cords tight. This is beneficial in higher screams cause you dont want to strain to close up a note that you need to sing in falsetto. But for these notes I think you could get better tone by gettin the cords able to stay clamped as you sing/scream. Practice singing what youre trying to say first. Its what we always stress because its true. YOu have to be able to close up the note tightly before you can shape it. Over time you can get better tone and still add that rasp. But dont rush things. And dont push too hard when youre trying to sing it hard. But if youre practicing then push enough to find your limits and to workout the cords after a good warm up of course. Dont be afraid to "get on it" You should have some warning if youre messing up. And its hard to do permanent damage...So take your time and over the next few days or so keep pushing your SINGING voice. You want to do some singing everyday if you can, for at least thirty minutes or so. Warm up and warm down. If you havent read my voichelp hotline then do so. its pretty informative while youre eating or taking breaks between P orno surfs. (ick, we cant ever write p o r n on this board?)

what kind of eq settings generally sound good for screams?

[QUOTE=Merkaba-1]hehe...dont bash yourself up so much. Its not that bad. Ok so theres no pain. and it should be comfortable and fun to do...really. Now the only other thing is that it sounds like youre not closing the cords tight. This is beneficial in higher screams cause you dont want to strain to close up a note that you need to sing in falsetto. But for these notes I think you could get better tone by gettin the cords able to stay clamped as you sing/scream. Practice singing what youre trying to say first. Its what we always stress because its true. YOu have to be able to close up the note tightly before you can shape it. Over time you can get better tone and still add that rasp. But dont rush things. And dont push too hard when youre trying to sing it hard. But if youre practicing then push enough to find your limits and to workout the cords after a good warm up of course. Dont be afraid to "get on it" You should have some warning if youre messing up. And its hard to do permanent damage...So take your time and over the next few days or so keep pushing your SINGING voice. You want to do some singing everyday if you can, for at least thirty minutes or so. Warm up and warm down. If you havent read my voichelp hotline then do so. its pretty informative while youre eating or taking breaks between P orno surfs. (ick, we cant ever write p o r n on this board?)[/QUOTE]

Thank you so much man. Your help is really appriciated. I'll work on it. Thanks :thumb:

Merkaba-1,
Thanks, I'll keep everything you said in mind. Should be able to work this out now, I think, so thanks very much, I appreciate it.
ES

[QUOTE=himynameistweek]what kind of eq settings generally sound good for screams?[/QUOTE]
I dont know cause if i did i would try to rely on it. It depends on what style youre going after i guess. some general good reverb helps to sustain a good scream regardless of the eq. I mean you wouldnt want the eq dead flat. experiment.

I suppose it makes sense that if you want a low growl to boost the low end of the EQ, while if you want a high scream turn up the high end. That's as far as I can think it through.

Here's a question...

WHERE exactly do you go to sing besides wherever it is you're getting voice lessons. I mean, if you live with other people it's hard to always find time to be home when they're not, and then you risk them coming home and being majorly embarrassed! If you get an apartment, the other people are gonna hear you. And in a car, you can't stand up. Any ideas?

^ I've never figured that out. I only sing when home alone, and even I complain about it :p.

next time i get a chance i'll experiment with eq and let you guys know... i don't know how accurate it will be though cause i havent developed my scream all that much. i'm really curious about how the mids will affect it.

[QUOTE=Corganschild]Here's a question...

WHERE exactly do you go to sing besides wherever it is you're getting voice lessons. I mean, if you live with other people it's hard to always find time to be home when they're not, and then you risk them coming home and being majorly embarrassed! If you get an apartment, the other people are gonna hear you. And in a car, you can't stand up. Any ideas?[/QUOTE]
Yea, I've done that before....Thought I had a while so i decided to do some tool overdubs....my sister came home and said, what was all that yellin' about? :amaze:

:rolleyes:

i've been messin with it a little, all i can do is emo screams but i cranked the highs, had mids and about 4 o clock and low at 12 o clock and it sounded pretty good.

how do you get audio files on here? you can't attach wavs or MP3s or anything... i can't get this to any other format

[QUOTE=himynameistweek]how do you get audio files on here? you can't attach wavs or MP3s or anything... i can't get this to any other format[/QUOTE]

Use [url]http://www.yousendit.com[/url]

alrighty.... here's how the guy from hawthorne heights screams.... help?

[URL=http://d11.yousendit.com/E/18OGMGM87KSFP22PBKISN4SI5G/scream(HH).wav]http://d11.yousendit.com/E/18OGMGM87KSFP22PBKISN4SI5G/scream(HH).wav[/URL]
thanks rats

[QUOTE=himynameistweek]alrighty.... here's how the guy from hawthorne heights screams.... help?

[URL=http://d11.yousendit.com/E/18OGMGM87KSFP22PBKISN4SI5G/scream(HH).wav]http://d11.yousendit.com/E/18OGMGM87KSFP22PBKISN4SI5G/scream(HH).wav[/URL]
thanks rats[/QUOTE]


the link doesnt work

[QUOTE=himynameistweek]alrighty.... here's how the guy from hawthorne heights screams.... help?

[URL=http://d11.yousendit.com/E/18OGMGM87KSFP22PBKISN4SI5G/scream(HH).wav]http://d11.yousendit.com/E/18OGMGM87KSFP22PBKISN4SI5G/scream(HH).wav[/URL]
thanks rats[/QUOTE]


You need to link us to the page where it gives you the option to download it, or delete the file. If you link directly to the .wav file it won't work.

[URL]http://s7.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=1ADFM20I0OGUR0V1F5K861BMEA[/URL]

bump

yea. I was gonna reply but I'm gonna make a seperate thread that will cover this. Should be finished tonight. YOu know me it will be worth the wait.....(I'd like to think) :thumb: Meanwhile just practice strong chest and head notes. That can never hurt

you know, i actually have no idea what either of those are. i see it talked about all the time, maybe i use them and dont even know it, but hell, im lost.

hey merk, i got a question....sorry...i know all these questions probably piss u off.
My problem is that i have no trouble getting the sound i want but the problem is with volume like with not much air the scream is fine but when i puch harder it stays the same volume.Is there something else i should be doing.Im sure its correct technique cause im not pushing hard to get the sound and i get no pain at all.Any help would be awesome.

thanks.

[QUOTE=himynameistweek]you know, i actually have no idea what either of those are. i see it talked about all the time, maybe i use them and dont even know it, but hell, im lost.[/QUOTE]
Chest are your mid to low notes, because the resonance from the thick cords actually vibrates your chest air and area and if you pay attention you can feel this.
Head is upper mid to high, and the resonance is in the head. You can feel this too.

Falsetto is high notes after head, when the cords open up and you get the airy girly sounds(for a guy).

If you dont understand you can do a low note and rise up to your highest note. pay attention to where you feel the sound and also where you feel the shift in your throat as the cords open up and you go to falsetto. All of this is assuming that youre properly breathing from the diaphragm

[QUOTE=Winter-seed...AKA b&h]hey merk, i got a question....sorry...i know all these questions probably piss u off.
My problem is that i have no trouble getting the sound i want but the problem is with volume like with not much air the scream is fine but when i puch harder it stays the same volume.Is there something else i should be doing.Im sure its correct technique cause im not pushing hard to get the sound and i get no pain at all.Any help would be awesome.

thanks.[/QUOTE]
Right. If you push too much air it just passes through the cords and does nothing more than fatigue them and create more heat and dryness. When you try to go louder you want your cords to be tense and thicker. Two seperate muscle functions. From what i remember dude have a pretty strong voice. All you can do is sing alot of strong chest and head notes. And dont forget the loud "hah!" exercise. With I mic i know youre more than adequate so dont overdo it or srush it. But if youre getting no pain then just push more in your work. Dont forget that you will always have a balance point where you lose vocal integrity by overpushing. The lungs will always be more powerful then the cords. The sneeze is the equivalent of a small hurricane when it first exits your nose. Usually about 100 mph, and you cant sneeze with your eyes open(please dont try because:..) people have sneezed and tried to stop it and have blown blood vessels and died, and others have cracked ribs. Tidbits of information to let you know that the lungs will always overpower the cords. hehe....dont rush. You've got plenty of time to get louder.

[QUOTE=Merkaba-1]Ok tweek, this guy is using alot of fry. Its something that is hard to describe and is quite scientific, but that is what these types of screams use. Fry is actually technically the lowest register. It occurs below70 or so vibrations pers second, or Hertz,Hz. Its just the way the ear interprets the sound. When we sing we make a bunch of seperate puffs of air. at a hundred or two a second it sounds like one continuous sound, around 60 or 70 the ear doesnt hear it the same and the seperate vibrations can be detected.

It takes some practice and balance. For vocal fry You activate the cords just enough to get the tone but you keep them relaxed to the point that they are not under regular tension. See why I always stress Isolation? you have a set of muscles that pull the cords thin, a set that thickens them, another set that lowers the larynx and another that raises the larynx. So if you cant isolate well it will be more difficult to manipulate. so they basically kind of give and take between opening and closing so you get a note, then a lower whisper, then a note then a lower whisper. When the cords arent as tense they let more air puff out and this extra air can be further scraped off the back of the throat area. Some people call it a whisper scream. Rightfully so, and there are mixes and etc of course. I did it a bit in my samples in the voicehelp hotline. Basically you try to sing and whisper at the same time. Doesnt take a lot of push, as a matter of fact you cant get the tone with almost no push and its a way to practice it. Try to sound like a very slow elmer fudd, or you can breathe all the way out til you have almost no air, then try to sing a mid voice or any non falsetto note. You must stay relaxed throat wise. with the extra air that passes you have even more to bounce off the back of your throat and you get a very solid menacing rich sound.

Again to get fry you should practice this at minimal volume. Then as you get the feel a little more you can add more and more push to the point you can pull for higher notes while keeping them so relaxed you also get fry at the same time. Imagine the difference between highly tight cords and cords that are actually so relaxed that they breathe more than usual. Much more stamina.

If you get into vocal frying you will do it all the time in rock style vocals. Be sure to practice regular notes and end your session with some hard singing in regular voice to get the cords back to the habit of regular tension. Be sure to warm up and down.[/QUOTE]
:eek: whew... i'll give it a shot. thanks, you're the coolest.

Here's a couple little snips of my scream.. this is the only way I can get my voice to 'distort' when I scream and I think it sounds kinda good for what I'm aiming for, but it hurts my throat a lot... what should I do?
I've got a quite deep voice but my screams are all high pitched because its the only way I can get it to distort..
[url]http://www.soundclick.com/bands/3/blacklistmusic.htm[/url]
Thanks..

is this kinda like the blindside scream. His is amazing how it fluctuates from screaming to singing

[QUOTE=Merkaba-1]Ok tweek, this guy is using alot of fry. Its something that is hard to describe and is quite scientific, but that is what these types of screams use. Fry is actually technically the lowest register. It occurs below70 or so vibrations pers second, or Hertz,Hz. Its just the way the ear interprets the sound. When we sing we make a bunch of seperate puffs of air. at a hundred or two a second it sounds like one continuous sound, around 60 or 70 the ear doesnt hear it the same and the seperate vibrations can be detected.

It takes some practice and balance. For vocal fry You activate the cords just enough to get the tone but you keep them relaxed to the point that they are not under regular tension. See why I always stress Isolation? you have a set of muscles that pull the cords thin, a set that thickens them, another set that lowers the larynx and another that raises the larynx. So if you cant isolate well it will be more difficult to manipulate. so they basically kind of give and take between opening and closing so you get a note, then a lower whisper, then a note then a lower whisper. When the cords arent as tense they let more air puff out and this extra air can be further scraped off the back of the throat area. Some people call it a whisper scream. Rightfully so, and there are mixes and etc of course. I did it a bit in my samples in the voicehelp hotline. Basically you try to sing and whisper at the same time. Doesnt take a lot of push, as a matter of fact you cant get the tone with almost no push and its a way to practice it. Try to sound like a very slow elmer fudd, or you can breathe all the way out til you have almost no air, then try to sing a mid voice or any non falsetto note. You must stay relaxed throat wise. with the extra air that passes you have even more to bounce off the back of your throat and you get a very solid menacing rich sound.

Again to get fry you should practice this at minimal volume. Then as you get the feel a little more you can add more and more push to the point you can pull for higher notes while keeping them so relaxed you also get fry at the same time. Imagine the difference between highly tight cords and cords that are actually so relaxed that they breathe more than usual. Much more stamina.

If you get into vocal frying you will do it all the time in rock style vocals. Be sure to practice regular notes and end your session with some hard singing in regular voice to get the cords back to the habit of regular tension. Be sure to warm up and down.[/QUOTE]
ok, i've been trying this, and it sounds like i might be on the right track, but it's kind of hurting, so i'm a little concerned. any ideas on what i might be doing wrong?
by the way, where are you from? there's a band called merkaba here...

nevermind about the pain, i think i'm getting it now :thumb: thanks a lot