[QUOTE]how is Jimi Hendrix not a Jam Band? Have you ever listened to his live stuff? Do yourself a favor and check out some of the streamable shows on sugarmegs.org[/QUOTE]

He is not. His recorded albums are not based upon jams, he sticks to one genre, and actually came before and died before the classification.

He also did not emphasize the importance of live shows.

And while we're at it, why isn't the Mahavishnu Orchestra not a Jam Band? How about Miles Davis, or Charles Mingus?

Because "Jam Band" is a genre, not a label for bands that simply "jam".

If a Jam Band meant a band that jammed could be one we would be over flowed with jam bands.

[QUOTE=Badmoon]He also did not emphasize the importance of live shows.[/QUOTE]
1)if you listen to any studio recordings of major commercial jam bands they are severely lacking in jams
2)Bob Dylan refused to believe he was the voice of a generation or a prophet, but does that mean that he was right. Just because Jimi downlplayed the importance of live shows does not mean I have to.
3)How does leaving the scene before the term "Jam Band" was coined make the term any less pertinent when describing the music. Last I knew, one could describe an event with a word that was younger than the event. If we all were to take this stance, the history of ancient greece should not be discussed in our schools, it is a ridiculous premise.
4)The fact of the matter is that the number of live shows he performed far outnumbers the amount of studio albums he produced, thus how he is defined should be by his live performances. Many bands are very different live than they are in the studio, and I believe bands should be judged by their live performances, as that is the true meterstick for skill and the overall experience

[QUOTE=Livewired]If a Jam Band meant a band that jammed could be one we would be over flowed with jam bands.[/QUOTE]
I would define a Jam band as any band who dramatically extends the length of a song improvisationally, and in which the jam greatly adds to the overall effect of the song. How would you define it? I find it very difficult to do so

[QUOTE=Badmoon]He also did not emphasize the importance of live shows.
Because "Jam Band" is a genre, not a label for bands that simply "jam".[/QUOTE]
I'd argue that the label describes the genre, how are we to describe bands if we can't label them as such. A band may have several different genres, and thus several different labels. The label simply refers back to the genre

[QUOTE]3)How does leaving the scene before the term "Jam Band" was coined make the term any less pertinent when describing the music. Last I knew, one could describe an event with a word that was younger than the event. If we all were to take this stance, the history of ancient greece should not be discussed in our schools, it is a ridiculous premise.[/QUOTE]

Well, there is most certainly a pattern.

[QUOTE]I would define a Jam band as any band who dramatically extends the length of a song improvisationally, and in which the jam greatly adds to the overall effect of the song. How would you define it? I find it very difficult to do so[/QUOTE]

A Jam Band does not just jam. They base themselves upon cult following, influence (Usually playing a variety of Root genres), and live events.

[QUOTE]The fact of the matter is that the number of live shows he performed far outnumbers the amount of studio albums he produced, thus how he is defined should be by his live performances. Many bands are very different live than they are in the studio, and I believe bands should be judged by their live performances, as that is the true meterstick for skill and the overall experience[/QUOTE]

Almost every band's live shows out number their albums, but that does not mean they put more work into there live shows, live for their live shows and without them would be nothing.

Jimi Hendrix could easily be classified as Album Rock for a reason.

[QUOTE]I'd argue that the label describes the genre, how are we to describe bands if we can't label them as such. A band may have several different genres, and thus several different labels. The label simply refers back to the genre[/QUOTE]

Miles Davis jams, but he and his band are not a Jam Band. They may play metal guitarists, but they are not a Metal band. Miles Davis is a Jazz artists who dabbles in improvisation, but does not contain the characteristics of a Jam Band.

[QUOTE=Badmoon]

And while we're at it, why isn't the Mahavishnu Orchestra not a Jam Band? How about Miles Davis, or Charles Mingus?

[/QUOTE]
of these bands genre's, I must plead ignorance, as the only one I have listened to is Miles Davis, and that listening has been limited. If you could link me to any of their live shows I'd be more than happy to give them a listen sometime later and respond to this question, but as of this time I have not listened to any of them enough to be able make a fair judgement

[QUOTE=KMidura]of these bands genre's, I must plead ignorance, as the only one I have listened to is Miles Davis, and that listening has been limited. If you could link me to any of their live shows I'd be more than happy to give them a listen sometime later and respond to this question, but as of this time I have not listened to any of them enough to be able make a fair judgement[/QUOTE]

Here they are each a Jam Band/Artist who improvises. I have no links to give you, but they play Jazz.

Another example of a genre that has a name that doesn't tell all you need to know, Stoner Rock.

Bands like the Grateful Dead and The Velvet Underground are not Stoner Rock bands. You may listen to them while stoner, but they do not fit the description of a Stoner Rock band like groups like Kyuss do.

Jimi was pretty big live wasn't he?

Like he owned Woodstock, did well at Monteray and play alot of other shows. I have Jimi Plays Berekly and its awesome but I still wouldn't count him as a Jam Band.

Although -Voodoo Chile is a friggin' sweet jam

[QUOTE=Badmoon]Well, there is most certainly a pattern.



A Jam Band does not just jam. They base themselves upon cult following, influence (Usually playing a variety of Root genres), and live events.



Almost every band's live shows out number their albums, but that does not mean they put more work into there live shows, live for their live shows and without them would be nothing.

Jimi Hendrix could easily be classified as Album Rock for a reason.



Miles Davis jams, but he and his band are not a Jam Band. They may play metal guitarists, but they are not a Metal band. Miles Davis is a Jazz artists who dabbles in improvisation, but does not contain the characteristics of a Jam Band.[/QUOTE]
1)What pattern is developing? I don't know what you're are referring to, probably my ignorance, but I am definetly left in the dark by this comment

2)You cannot claim that definition to be the definition of jam band, it may be yours, however (quote from JamBands.com)
"The following definition appeared in the program for the first annual Jammys at Irving Plaza on June 22.

What Is a Jam Band?

Please cast aside any preconceptions that this phrase may evoke. The term, as it is commonly used today, references a rich palette of sounds and textures. These groups share a collective penchant for improvisation, a commitment to songcraft and a propensity to cross genre boundaries, drawing from a range of traditions including blues, bluegrass, funk, jazz, rock, psychedelia and even techno. In addition, the jam bands of today are unified by the nimble ears of their receptive listeners."
By my count Jimi accounts for all of those except for the crossing of boundaries which he does do, but not to the extent of many other jam bands, that being said the term propensity (for those of you who don't know) means "an inclination towards", not that it is mandatory, if this term is so loosely defined by those paid to write about and expose the jam band scene, why are we being so picky?

3)I did not claim that they put more effort into their live work, I claimed that the total amount of music available to listeners is comprised mostly of live music. Also, live shows portray the true band, as there are no second chances.

4)You say that he can be classified as album rock for a reason but don't state the reason?

[QUOTE=Livewired]Jimi was pretty big live wasn't he?

Like he owned Woodstock, did well at Monteray and play alot of other shows. I have Jimi Plays Berekly and its awesome but I still wouldn't count him as a Jam Band.

Although -Voodoo Chile is a friggin' sweet jam[/QUOTE]
Speaking of Monterey, that is perhaps the best CD set I have in my collection, for those of you who don't have it, it is a great collection. Multiple disks, and even comes with a book. Don't remember how much it cost.

[QUOTE]4)You say that he can be classified as album rock for a reason but don't state the reason?[/QUOTE]

Well, if one is an album rock band, they are usually more known and into their albums.

[QUOTE]1)What pattern is developing? I don't know what you're are referring to, probably my ignorance, but I am definetly left in the dark by this comment[/QUOTE]

My previous that topic wasn't great, but there is a pattern (Though most likely useless). Notice how The Allmans and The Dead, etc had played for years and then suddenly the classification arrived.

The name arrived after the first real wave of jam bands arose. Phish and Widespread Panic and The Aquarium Rescue Unit spotted and were definitely influenced by both the Grateful Dead and the Allman Brothers. Because of that, those two groups are known as the first and forefathers of Jam Bands. It may seem irelevant, but it is an idea that comes up often.

[QUOTE]By my count Jimi accounts for all of those except for the crossing of boundaries which he does do, but not to the extent of many other jam bands, that being said the term propensity (for those of you who don't know) means "an inclination towards", not that it is mandatory, if this term is so loosely defined by those paid to write about and expose the jam band scene, why are we being so picky?[/QUOTE]

I am not trying to be picky, there are bands that are jam bands and some that aren't. That is why you so rarely here Jimi Hendrix mentioned in Relix, Dupree's Diamond Blues, etc. Though he may fit most of them, he does not fit all. And believe it or not, I am not the one fighting to make Jimi Hendrix not a Jam artists. Some actually believe he is too Psychedelic. Which would make the Grateful Dead not a Jam Band in their earliest years. It's like how Phish play an extroadinary amount of Jazz. Why aren't they a Jazz band, because they do not possess the required attributes.

Does anyone have any good recommendations for shows on sugarmegs.org, lots of shows there, but with so many to choose from I don't know where to start.

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[QUOTE=Badmoon]Well, if one is an album rock band, they are usually more known and into their albums.

the name arrived after the first real wave of jam bands arose. Phish and Widespread Panic and The Aquarium Rescue Unit spotted and were definitely influenced by both the Grateful Dead and the Allman Brothers. Because of that, those two groups are known as the first and forefathers of Jam Bands. It may seem irelevant, but it is an idea that comes up often.

I am not being picky, there are band that are jam bands and some that aren't. That is why you so rarely here Jimi Hendrix mentioned in Relix, Dupree's Diamond Blues, etc...Though he may fit most of them, he does not fit all. And believe it or not, I am not the one fighting to make Jimi Hendrix not a Jam artists. It's like how Phish play an extroadinary amount of Jazz. Why aren't they a Jazz band, because they do not possess the required attributes.[/QUOTE]
Well, then clearly for me they are defined as a jam band, not only because they fit the Jammy's description, but mostly due to the fact that when i think of Hendrix I think of Monterey, and Woodstock. And this is the major difference that we have and will be unable to rectify, as you clearly think of their studio work. I completely respect your view, I just simply disagree. We also seem to disagree that a band can be of multiple genres. I would agree with the statement that at times Phish can be decribed as being in the jazz genre. These labels are altogether too broad, and each band has their own style, so in my opinion, one must define bands as being in multiple genres, or the description will fail to convey the sort of music they play. As far as the two publications you cited, I am not an avid reader of either, and cannot comment, but you did say that they were mentioned, even if only rarely. I would never try to place Jimi among the Jam Greats who epitomize the genre. Clearly they are not the pinnacle of a jamband like ABB, GD, and PH. That being said, few do. But one must also remember that as you point out the term was coined in order to define ABB, GD, and PH.

Thank you for responding to the one's that I didn't understand, I knew that the term arrived after both the ABB and GD, and agree that they are the forefathers, but did not know its true history

On a different note, I'd like to suggest a band to you, as they have drawn off the dead and phish to create their music, while also blending jazz and funk and I believe you would like them. In fact, one of the lead guitarists is the son of DSO's Rob Eaton (also named Rob Eaton). Their name is Greyspoke Variety, and can be found on Archive.org, i would suggest the show from 2005-01-07 which can be found on staff picks. I have to leave now, but this discussion has been both informative and entertaining

Thanks, I'll check them out :)

Wow. I just downloaded the Greyspoke Variety show KMidura recommended and it's incredible. I think they may be moving up on my list of favorite bands. Definately worth a download. Go check them out.

Yeah my download was pretty good too, nice reccomendation.

[QUOTE=ShineOnYouCrazyDiamond]awhile ago i mentioned blue floyd, the pink floyd blues cover band headed by the lateallen woody, with the guitarist from the black crowes and matt abts on drums. i just found out they are back with a new singer. If anyone is in the southeast Pa/ east jersey area you should come check them out at the Pink Floyd fest.

EDIT: berry oakley is in the band also[/QUOTE]
BLUE FLOYD:
The brainchild of [B]Michael Gaiman[/B], who previously assembled Jazz Is Dead, a potent jazz-rock band that performed Grateful Dead songs with a jazz emphasis, Blue Floyd features [B]Jeff Pevar[/B] on lead guitars from Phil Lesh & Friends, Crosby/Nash and Ray Charles; [B]Audley Freed [/B] on guitar and vocals, formerly with the Black Crowes and Jimmy Page; [B]Johnny Neel [/B] on keyboards, harp and vocals, previously with the Allman Brothers Band; [B]Berry Oakley Jr.[/B] on bass and vocals, formerly with and The Doors and the Robby Krieger Band and [B]Matt Abts [/B] on drums, previously with Gov’t Mule.

[QUOTE=Jam2Me]Yeah I don't believe in labels either.

I saw Sountribe Sector 9 live at Toad's they put on a great live show.[/QUOTE]

In New Haven? I gotta go there more often

Any of you guys like The Breakfast? I downloaded a couple of their shows last night and they're better than I expected. Of course that could be why they won "New Groove" last year at the Jammys.

Anyway, on a different note; I saw moe. on Sunday night in Morgantown and I must say, it was excellent. My first moe. concert and unfortuately only my second jam concert. Not too many people come to West Virginia and I'm about 2 hours from Morgantown as it is. I see that I missed Gov't Mule a couple days earlier, but I might head up again for Old Crow Medicine Show tomorrow night.

I guess I'll just sit here and wait for someone to hopefully post the moe. show on the archives.

Someone recommended them to me and I listened to some of their stuff on their website, y me gustan :D Maybe they are coming around here soon, I will have to check

edit: nope.

Who'd you all vote for?

And please do not vote for anything by Umphrey's McGee. Anchor Drops and everything on it sucks. (IMO)

What'dya know? The Breakfast is coming around here the beginning of April. Alright.

[QUOTE=Badmoon]Who'd you all vote for?

And please do not vote for anything by Umphrey's McGee. Anchor Drops and everything on it sucks. (IMO)[/QUOTE]


As much as I would like to vote for Phish summer tour for best tour I voted Acoustic Planet as it was insane to see.

[QUOTE=Walrus Gumboot]In New Haven? I gotta go there more often[/QUOTE]
Yeah, go there this Friday to see The Breakfast :thumb:

[QUOTE=Badmoon]Black Crowes guitarists: Rich Robinson, Audley Freed, etc

And I strongly doubt Berry Oakley is in that band. It'd be a little hard for him.[/QUOTE]


berry oakley jr.*


and it's audley freed

EDIT: nvm, jam2me corrected me. sorry for the post full of errors.

Is anyone going to check out Hydra? I don't know if it will be the same Particle sound, with Mickey Hart on drums, or if it will have a new sound like they say it will. Seems like the majority of it's hype is from the fact that Mickey Hart is from the Grateful Dead.

[QUOTE=e p]As much as I would like to vote for Phish summer tour for best tour I voted Acoustic Planet as it was insane to see.[/QUOTE]

I voted the same. Though I did not see see the tour (I should have been at the same concert as you), I heard from friends it was great.