[QUOTE=Lupus]I wasn't being a twat. I was merely stating my opinion.[/QUOTE]
And acting like your opinion (which is retarded...you seriously think synthesizers have contributed nothing to music other than techno?) is better than everyone else's and like everyone is stupid if they don't agree with you.

And, BTW, all opinions are not equally valid. If you think synthesizers have contributed nothing to music, you're just retarded.

Lupus is the most hilarious noob i've probably ever seen on these forums.

[QUOTE=Necronomicon]Lupus is the most hilarious noob i've probably ever seen on these forums.[/QUOTE]

Nah, they're funny when they're ridiculously stupid. When they're just acting retarded despite having intelligence, it isn't really funny.

Has lupus done enough to illicit a ban? Also lupus id like to tell you what I tell most people. Black Sabbath was probably the biggest influence on heavy metal of all, but they are NOT actually heavy metal. Metal is based on classical influences and solos and these influences sometimes come into riffs as well, notice how hard Iron Maiden riffs are to play. Yet Rock is based on blues and to a lesser extent jazz. And that is what Sabbath is based on. Also, this is a little off topic and not directed specifically at lupus, has anyone noticed nu-metal has no classical influences? Does that mean they arnt truly metal?

Wow, you guys are unbelievably hypocritical.

And, no. Black Sabbath IS heavy metal. That is a fact. They may not seem heavy compared to music today, but around that time, they were considered heavy metal. That was the period when heavy metal was invented, and Sabbath was heavier than any other band who had delved in heavy metal. So, because heavy metal was invented and defined in that time period, you can't say Black Sabbath wasn't heavy metal, because they played a large part, possibly the largest, in defining it.

And sinc when did metal have to have classical influences?

Since ever, that is how its defined.

Yeah, sure. Find out who originally used the term heavy metal and I guarantee they weren't referring to music that was necessarily influenced by classical. The term metal was used to describe how heavy the music was (i.e. lots of distortion) What do you consider the first heavy metal song?

[QUOTE=Lupus]Yeah, sure. Find out who originally used the term heavy metal and I guarantee they weren't referring to music that was necessarily influenced by classical. The term metal was used to describe how heavy the music was (i.e. lots of distortion) What do you consider the first heavy metal song?[/QUOTE]

First heavy metal song?

Hmm.

Steppenwolf's Born to be Wild mentions the words Heavy Metal, so in a lyrical sense it would be the first heavy metal song.

But to me, the first heavy metal song would be something from one of the early Judas Priest albums.

Also, other than Steppenwolf using Heavy Metal in Born to be Wild, the term was coined by journalists and the media.

Edit: I predict that the kid will try to call my opinions worthless again, why he's even bothering to carry all this on is beyond me, he's not going to change my mind on how I see Sabbath.

[QUOTE=Lupus]

And, no. Black Sabbath IS heavy metal. That is a fact. They may not seem heavy compared to music today, but around that time, they were considered heavy metal. That was the period when heavy metal was invented, and Sabbath was heavier than any other band who had delved in heavy metal.
QUOTE]

He IS pretty much correct....on this point.

My tail bone hurts to much to argue at the moment.

I think its fractured :(

Brum - I cannot see how Judas Priest can be credited with the first heavy metal songs when their first album didn't come out til 1974, and even then, Rocka Rolla is hardly a metal album at all
I would think early Sabbath would be the first true metal - although judging it by the standards of today it would be too blues/jazz influenced to qualify.
Lupus does have a valid point about the relativity of heaviness viz the time it was released.
IMO the first album to really connect classical influences with heavy metal was Blizzard Of Ozz and Rhoads' work on it, before this point (1979) there was little sign of it at all

I was thinking more along the lines of Priest's Sin After Sin (1975/76?) album, but I can see how Sabbath would be primitive heavy metal when they first appeared.

But then again, Rainbow's Rising (1976?) is primitive power metal, so in a sense they could also be credited with being the first heavy metal band, seeing as both genres are incredibly similar.

But at the end of the day, I don't really care about what type of music Black Sabbath are, I just know that every single song (bar Paranoid) is music that I enjoy listening to.

It'd be great if this whole dispute could come to an end, but you guys can carry it on if you want.

Hi Brum - I agree that this subject has been done to death, but everytime someone new comes along it comes up again..
I've always maintained that Rainbow was proto-PM - imo it's where it all started!
Anyhoo, as I'm a bit of a Priest anorak, here's an early discography
Rocka Rolla 1974
Sad Wings Of Destiny 1976
Sin After Sin 1977
Stained Class and Killing Machine (Hell Bent For Leather in US) both 1978
Unleashed In The Studio, sorry, East I think was recorded in 78 but released in 1979
Then it was British Steel 1980, Point Of Entry 1981, Screaming For Vengeance 1982, Defenders Of The Faith 1984, Turbo 1986, Ram It Down 1988, and Painkiller 1990.
After that Halford left and it don't count :thumb:

[QUOTE=Lupus]Yeah, sure. Find out who originally used the term heavy metal and I guarantee they weren't referring to music that was necessarily influenced by classical. The term metal was used to describe how heavy the music was (i.e. lots of distortion) What do you consider the first heavy metal song?[/QUOTE]
Trust me, classical inspired basically every genre.

[QUOTE=Necronomicon]Trust me, classical inspired basically every genre.[/QUOTE]
Not Blues though - don't think Mozart had to many pentatonics goin' down

[QUOTE=RumBoy]Hi Brum - I agree that this subject has been done to death, but everytime someone new comes along it comes up again..
I've always maintained that Rainbow was proto-PM - imo it's where it all started!
Anyhoo, as I'm a bit of a Priest anorak, here's an early discography
Rocka Rolla 1974
Sad Wings Of Destiny 1976
Sin After Sin 1977
Stained Class and Killing Machine (Hell Bent For Leather in US) both 1978
Unleashed In The Studio, sorry, East I think was recorded in 78 but released in 1979
Then it was British Steel 1980, Point Of Entry 1981, Screaming For Vengeance 1982, Defenders Of The Faith 1984, Turbo 1986, Ram It Down 1988, and Painkiller 1990.
After that Halford left and it don't count :thumb:[/QUOTE]


What about Angel of Retribution? :p

I think it was Terrorizer magazine that had Rising down as the very first PM album, closely followed by Helloween.

[QUOTE=Necronomicon]Trust me, classical inspired basically every genre.[/QUOTE]
:rolleyes: SLIGHT exaggeration there...

What about Angel of Retribution?


Well I said "early discography", then got carried away, then stopped arbitrarily 15 years ago....


Anyway, that album's hardly a classic either.. :upset:

[QUOTE=RumBoy]What about Angel of Retribution?


Well I said "early discography", then got carried away, then stopped arbitrarily 15 years ago....


Anyway, that album's hardly a classic either.. :upset:[/QUOTE]

Its not too bad, could've been much worse.

Lochness is great.

Well I do go over the top with these genre debates. Also brum you said every song bar Paranoid, does that mean you like the Paranoid album just apart from that one song?

[QUOTE=Lord Brummington]An opinion which normally I'd respect.

//

So yeh, Dio is touring the UK this month, is anyone going to see him?

If I remember to put some money in the bank I'll be going. A whole Evening with Ronnie James Dio, it should be amazing.[/QUOTE]
Bollocking hell i was supposed to get tickets to the newcastle gig but forgot :angry:

This thread has got really funny since everyone started arguing :lol:

[QUOTE=rippa32]Well I do go over the top with these genre debates. Also brum you said every song bar Paranoid, does that mean you like the Paranoid album just apart from that one song?[/QUOTE]

Sort of.

I quite like Planet Caravan, Hand of Doom and Electric Funeral. The rest of the songs I've heard way too many times and they don't really do much for me anymore.

//

In real life news, I've cracked my Tail Bone :(

I've rubbed some cream onto it and its numbing the area, it feels weird.

Brum - how did you hurt yourself? I cracked my coccyx (is that right?) by falling off the stage one night, after some clowns changed the layout after rehearsal and didn't tell me.
That hurt like buggery itself.

I sympathise :wave:

I was tackled by a fat kid, he caught me off guard and I fell over, landing on my tail bone (Coccyx is the right word, not sure on the spelling though) with all his weight ontop of me. The floor was solid concrete.

I'm a skinny bloke, so my 'bone sticks out more than others, I've spent all day trying not to pick anything up off the floor or stand up/sit down too often.

That's savage, man. It's only when you injure that part of yourself that you realise just about everything in your body seems to be connected to it!
Not sitting down = inconvenient.
Hope you're smiling again soon.
Down with fatties! :smash:

I'm smiling, its quite amusing having a broken arse bone...until the pain kicks in again.

I did hurl some abuse at the fat bastard earlier today :)

Wahoo abuse. I totally agree with your opinion on the Paranoid album, although every now and then I have a listen just to bring back the memories of when I first heard Black Sabbath.

[QUOTE=rippa32]Wahoo abuse. I totally agree with your opinion on the Paranoid album, although every now and then I have a listen just to bring back the memories of when I first heard Black Sabbath.[/QUOTE]

I disagree, I think it's a great album. War Pigs is an amazing song, Paranoid is catchy and fun, Planet Caravan is great, Iron Man is a classic, and while the next 3 songs are just pretty good, Fairies Wear Boots is a total masterpiece.

Well each to their own, I never said I didn't like album I just think Sabbath has done better. But again your opinion may differ.(well thats lupus' ramblings covered). So anyway Jude what albums do you have?

I always liked Paranoid album, song can get weak at times so i dont listen to it to much (it just left my MP3 player for the first time ever a few weeks ago)

We really need a new thread title, how about 'Never say die'