[QUOTE=I0Play0Bass]That's the catch 22! If a butterfly in Japan flaps its wings, the ripple effect causes a hurricane in America. Frightening, no? And totally possible.

A flare on alpha centauri (the second closest star to earth, next to the sun, respectively) can cause the destruction of earth. Hell, solar wind on Jupiter could knock out all earth transmissions and cause chaos.

The universe is a delicate balance.

:thumb:

-Gav[/QUOTE]
Which makes you almost certain that there is indeed a higher power.

know anything about gamma bursts gav?

[QUOTE=YO_bass]Im actually taking a course this semester on Science and Religion. Its taught by a conservative catholic, but most of the course is discussion, so a LOT of viewpoints are put forwards, and although the guy has pretty firm beliefs, he doesnt care what we believe as long as we back it up, so he's pretty open minded in that regard.

If anybody does feel like discussing the morality/connection to religion on these issues, i'd be more than happy to do so. I have taken 3 years of Catholic theology, a course on comparative religions, but im not a creationist or anything weird like that, so ask away.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I'm Roman Catholic, 16, am pretty devout, and have gone to Catholic school my whole life, this studying the Catholic religion for 11 years (although only seirously studying it for about 4). I know a lot about my religion, know what I believe in, and know WHY I believe in it.

I'm also very open minded. Catholics have a bad name because of Catholic fascists, as I call them. You know, that nazi soccer mom who can't follow what she preaches. :p

:thumb:

-Gav

[QUOTE=cliffburtonrules]Which makes you almost certain that there is indeed a higher power.[/QUOTE]
dont start that ****. i have to say when it comes to religion. im a closed minded *******. if that starts im going to end up getting banned. :(

[QUOTE=I0Play0Bass]That's the catch 22! If a butterfly in Japan flaps its wings, the ripple effect causes a hurricane in America. Frightening, no? And totally possible.

A flare on alpha centauri (the second closest star to earth, next to the sun, respectively) can cause the destruction of earth. Hell, solar wind on Jupiter could knock out all earth transmissions and cause chaos.

The universe is a delicate balance.

:thumb:

-Gav[/QUOTE]

This idea just begs for a t-shirt to be made saying "My fart caused the tsunami"

I apologize for my morbid sense of humor.
wait...no i dont.

[QUOTE=irishslappop]know anything about gamma bursts gav?[/QUOTE]

Nothing...:upset:.

BUT, I must be off. I'm dead tired and this calc test needs studying! Definitely update me tomorrow, Irish!

It's been great, per usual! Later MX. Always a pleasure. :wave:

:thumb:

-Gav

[QUOTE=I0Play0Bass]Yeah, I'm Roman Catholic, 16, am pretty devout, and have gone to Catholic school my whole life, this studying the Catholic religion for 11 years (although only seirously studying it for about 4). I know a lot about my religion, know what I believe in, and know WHY I believe in it.

I'm also very open minded. Catholics have a bad name because of Catholic fascists, as I call them. You know, that nazi soccer mom who can't follow what she preaches. :p

:thumb:

-Gav[/QUOTE]
I too aqm a Roman Catholic but never really started to get into it. My faith is unquestionable but my church-going schedule is hardly consistant. :upset:

I want to becaome more devout and faithful.

[QUOTE=YO_bass]This idea just begs for a t-shirt to be made saying "My fart caused the tsunami"

I apologize for my morbid sense of humor.
wait...no i dont.[/QUOTE]
I would pay up to $20 for that shirt.

nice buddy untill tomarow you'll have to ponder what gamma bursts are MUUHAHAHA!

[QUOTE=I0Play0Bass]Yeah, I'm Roman Catholic, 16, am pretty devout, and have gone to Catholic school my whole life, this studying the Catholic religion for 11 years (although only seirously studying it for about 4). I know a lot about my religion, know what I believe in, and know WHY I believe in it.

I'm also very open minded. Catholics have a bad name because of Catholic fascists, as I call them. You know, that nazi soccer mom who can't follow what she preaches. :p

:thumb:

-Gav[/QUOTE]

Dont get me started on the soccer moms....i live in suburbia and go to a Catholic high school. I also know what i believe in, but i cant stand the way religion in general is set up in Europe and North America. I love opportunities to go to South America and do service work there...that is what the catholic ideal should really be all about...going out into the world and helping people and living in COMMUNITY with each other. I hate the way religion in America focuses on personal morality. As far as personal morality goes, i say just dont be an *******. Social justice is really the heart of morality in my opinion. Latin Americans do the catholic thing very well. I also love the eastern mindset as it also focuses on community and social fulfillment as apposed to the individual....but i digress....

[QUOTE=YO_bass]Dont get me started on the soccer moms....i live in suburbia and go to a Catholic high school. I also know what i believe in, but i cant stand the way religion in general is set up in Europe and North America. I love opportunities to go to South America and do service work there...that is what the catholic ideal should really be all about...going out into the world and helping people and living in COMMUNITY with each other. I hate the way religion in America focuses on personal morality. As far as personal morality goes, i say just dont be an *******. Social justice is really the heart of morality in my opinion. Latin Americans do the catholic thing very well. I also love the eastern mindset as it also focuses on community and social fulfillment as apposed to the individual....but i digress....[/QUOTE]
I'm disapointed in myself that I don't know enough about my religion to defend what I believe in.

i guess for the most part that i refuse to believe in any religion is becasue i a sinning piece of **** in most of em. but what yo bass said about community is a really good point. it really should be about community and not personal moraity.

Well, irish, being atheist (if thats what you are correct me if im wrong) how do you have any sense of what's right or wrong?

How do you live your life? Im not criticizing I'm simply wondering.

Though I find some religion interesting, I find a lot of the ideas to be stupid.
So, I follow no religion.

[QUOTE=Spaceman Spiff]Though I find some religion interesting, I find a lot of the ideas to be stupid.
So, I follow no religion.[/QUOTE]
Same question to you. :)

[QUOTE=irishslappop]i guess for the most part that i refuse to believe in any religion is becasue i a sinning piece of **** in most of em. but what yo bass said about community is a really good point. it really should be about community and not personal moraity.[/QUOTE]

I sin all the time too... everybody does. All religious people do...actually, the people who dont admit to their sinning are considered the worst by most creeds (hypocrits), so dont worry, you're not the bottom of the barrel from a religious point of view. ****, i even missed mass yesterday because i was too busy at home with my girlfriend because my parents were out of town. Im not exactly a pillar of chastity. :naughty:

I worship the sun :cool:

[QUOTE=cliffburtonrules]Well, irish, being atheist (if thats what you are correct me if im wrong) how do you have any sense of what's right or wrong?

How do you live your life? Im not criticizing I'm simply wondering.[/QUOTE]
yes your correct. and thats a good question. i make my own rules for what is right and wrong. but for the most part i rely on my better judgement. i have absolutely nothing aginst religion (except for crazy *** extremeist who everyone hates) i just have found that i would never fit in with a religious group without being extremely hipocritical. does that make sence?

I want nothing to do with any organised religion because they are a world apart from their roots.

Simple example: What do you think Jesus would think of the Vatican? Would he want money being spent on elaborate things, like big churches, and cathedrals? Not while there are people without roofs over their heads and no food to eat.

[QUOTE=gaslight]I want nothing to do with any organised religion because they are a world apart from their roots.

Simple example: What do you think Jesus would think of the Vatican? Would he want money being spent on elaborate things, like big churches, and cathedrals? Not while there are people without roofs over their heads and no food to eat.[/QUOTE]
re ++ nicely put :thumb:

In a way it does.

And you dont have to alter your entire lifestyle just to fit in with certain religions. You would just have to do SOME things differenty.

But I see where your coming from.

[QUOTE=gaslight]I want nothing to do with any organised religion because they are a world apart from their roots.

Simple example: What do you think Jesus would think of the Vatican? Would he want money being spent on elaborate things, like big churches, and cathedrals? Not while there are people without roofs over their heads and no food to eat.[/QUOTE]
That's true and I know that the Catholic religion takes so much ****.

But I don't really like the actual, church itself, I just live by the message of Chrisitanity and the point and I honestly don't think Jesus would like the Vatican. But I still live my the moral code set down by Catholicism

I considered becoming an atheist last year when i was having serious faith issues. The basic guideline for morality that I follow, and most atheists do (whether subconscious or not) is based on the idea of the Seamless Garment (yes, this is a catholic term, but i'll explain it). It basically says that a human acts on behalf of his fellow man. And while he worships no deity, he recognizes that there are things greater than himself, whether they be abstract concepts such as time or happiness or the idea of a human bond. If something hurts this human bond, it is immoral, whereas if it strengthens the bond, it is moral.

This is the one problem i had with atheism. A lot of people I know consider humans to be simply highly-evolved organisms. I cannot agree with this. The purpose of an organism, its natural function if you will, is to grow, preserve its life, and reproduce so it passes on its genetic code. A lot of hedonists will use this excuse to defend their actions, saying that they simply follow their genetic code. However, how does one explain when somebody jumps in front of a bullet for a friend, or somehow sacrifices his life for another. this does the opposit that their genetic code tells them, so what could be driving them? My only answer to this is Love, and according to many religions, Christianity included, God is love, therefore if you believe in love then you believe in a god.

Im not trying to convert any atheists here, i actually just want to probe them, because i want to learn more, so dont feel like im criticizing anybod's beliefs, I simply want to learn more about them by sharing what i already know (or think i know) about them.

[QUOTE=YO_bass]I considered becoming an atheist last year when i was having serious faith issues. The basic guideline for morality that I follow, and most atheists do (whether subconscious or not) is based on the idea of the Seamless Garment (yes, this is a catholic term, but i'll explain it). It basically says that a human acts on behalf of his fellow man. And while he worships no deity, he recognizes that there are things greater than himself, whether they be abstract concepts such as time or happiness or the idea of a human bond. If something hurts this human bond, it is immoral, whereas if it strengthens the bond, it is moral.

This is the one problem i had with atheism. A lot of people I know consider humans to be simply highly-evolved organisms. I cannot agree with this. The purpose of an organism, its natural function if you will, is to grow, preserve its life, and reproduce so it passes on its genetic code. A lot of hedonists will use this excuse to defend their actions, saying that they simply follow their genetic code. However, how does one explain when somebody jumps in front of a bullet for a friend, or somehow sacrifices his life for another. this does the opposit that their genetic code tells them, so what could be driving them? My only answer to this is Love, and according to many religions, Christianity included, God is love, therefore if you believe in love then you believe in a god.

Im not trying to convert any atheists here, i actually just want to probe them, because i want to learn more, so dont feel like im criticizing anybod's beliefs, I simply want to learn more about them by sharing what i already know (or think i know) about them.[/QUOTE]
See this is the sort of thing I wish I could be able to put inti words.

Very well put.

[QUOTE=cliffburtonrules]In a way it does.

And you dont have to alter your entire lifestyle just to fit in with certain religions. You would just have to do SOME things differenty.

But I see where your coming from.[/QUOTE]
tell me some things i would have to do differently and i will tell you if i could do that with out comprimising my style of life which i love so much.

1. im not a virgin
2. i do drugs (often)
3. i dont believe in a higher being (god...i do believe in aliens that are smarter then us :lol: )
4.i have never been to church (and frankly i dont really ever want to go.)

im not trying to be a smart ***, im just trying to say i think im beyond the point of no return. oh and i refuse to even think about being a "reborn" christian. sorry if i offend anyone, but if you do that consiously (get reborn) then in my eyes all you are doing is saying
"ok i ****ed up, now to be right in the eyes of the lord im going to have a minister get rid of all the bad **** ive done." in my opinion it's just about the most hipocritical thing that anyone can do.
again this is all my opinion sorry if it offend anyone.

[QUOTE=irishslappop]tell me some things i would have to do differently and i will tell you if i could do that with out comprimising my style of life which i love so much.

1. im not a virgin
2. i do drugs (often)
3. i dont believe in a higher being (god...i do believe in aliens that are smarter then us :lol: )
4.i have never been to church (and frankly i dont really ever want to go.)

im not trying to be a smart ***, im just trying to say i think im beyond the point of no return. oh and i refuse to even think about being a "reborn" christian. sorry if i offend anyone, but if you do that consiously (get reborn) then in my eyes all you are doing is saying
"ok i ****ed up, now to be right in the eyes of the lord im going to have a minister get rid of all the bad **** ive done." in my opinion it's just about the most hipocritical thing that anyone can do.
again this is all my opinion sorry if it offend anyone.[/QUOTE]
I see what you mean.

I don't know. You were talking about how all those nuclear theories and worm holes. The complexity of all that, and to have it happen just by chance with such percision, don't you think thats WAY too much of a coincidence?

[QUOTE=cliffburtonrules]That's true and I know that the Catholic religion takes so much ****.

But I don't really like the actual, church itself, I just live by the message of Chrisitanity and the point and I honestly don't think Jesus would like the Vatican. But I still live my the moral code set down by Catholicism[/QUOTE]

Yeah, there's nothing wrong with that. I don't believe in any form of God, but that doesn't stop me thinking Jesus is a good example of a positive way to live.

[QUOTE=cliffburtonrules]I see what you mean.

I don't know. You were talking about how all those nuclear theories and worm holes. The complexity of all that, and to have it happen just by chance with such percision, don't you think thats WAY too much of a coincidence?[/QUOTE]
yeah i hear ya. and yes i think its a perfectly good way to think about it. this may sound stupid but no one evr brings this up.


ok. im a physical kind of guy. im one of those pricks that doesn't beleive it unless he sees it. if god created the entire, ever expanding universe and all the things me gav and lowsound were talking about earier, then i mean...(back to physical sence of being) where is this fellow. oh this sounds stupid. but i mean, what does he look like, where did he get these powers of creation?because anyone who created the universe hasssss to have some type of physical being. or it just wouldn't work. the amount of energy on a physical bassis to create the universe is so imence that it is mind bogling. im just wondering how a religious person would explain something like the creation of the universe. that sounded really stupid sorry.

[QUOTE=cliffburtonrules]Well, irish, being atheist (if thats what you are correct me if im wrong) how do you have any sense of what's right or wrong?

How do you live your life? Im not criticizing I'm simply wondering.[/QUOTE]
Well, basically I just don't follow any religion, I just live my life the way that I see fit. I don't think that following some ancient writings that have been written and re-written many times, no one knows what actually happened and what didn't. Though it's really the message that matters, I just cannot take any religions seriously, so I just live however i want.
I still have morals and stuff, but it has nothing to do with religion.

I read an interesting thing in the Religion/Politics thread in the Pit once.

A guy used a very good analogy:

Say you're on a gameshow. Behind curtain A there is a 50/50 chance of there being a brand new car. Behind curtain B there is absolutly nothing. Which is the logical choice? Most people would say curtain A.

Alright pretend curtain A is a religion and the car is a life in heaven. Pretend curtain B is aetheism. If you pick curtain A you have a chance at heaven, and if you pick curtain B you're done when you're dead. Now if there is no car (heaven) then it's you're in the same place you would be if you picked curtain B.

Do you guys understand?

I feel nice

[QUOTE=irishslappop]yeah i hear ya. and yes i think its a perfectly good way to think about it. this may sound stupid but no one evr brings this up.


ok. im a physical kind of guy. im one of those pricks that doesn't beleive it unless he sees it. if god created the entire, ever expanding universe and all the things me gav and lowsound were talking about earier, then i mean...(back to physical sence of being) where is this fellow. oh this sounds stupid. but i mean, what does he look like, where did he get these powers of creation?because anyone who created the universe hasssss to have some type of physical being. or it just wouldn't work. the amount of energy on a physical bassis to create the universe is so imence that it is mind bogling. im just wondering how a religious person would explain something like the creation of the universe. that sounded really stupid sorry.[/QUOTE]
No that's a very good point.

And my answer to that is................ faith.
It's all about accepting something without any phsyical proof. But you can feel the presense of God in certain times. It's very hard to describe but I understand what your saying.

[QUOTE=cliffburtonrules]I read an interesting thing in the Religion/Politics thread in the Pit once.

A guy used a very good analogy:

Say you're on a gameshow. Behind curtain A there is a 50/50 chance of there being a brand new car. Behind curtain B there is absolutly nothing. Which is the logical choice? Most people would say curtain A.

Alright pretend curtain A is a religion and the car is a life in heaven. Pretend curtain B is aetheism. If you pick curtain A you have a chance at heaven, and if you pick curtain B you're done when you're dead. Now if there is no car (heaven) then it's you're in the same place you would be if you picked curtain B.

Do you guys understand?[/QUOTE]That's acually pretty good, I'm totally quoting it for another forum.

[QUOTE=e p]I feel nice[/QUOTE]


My sugar and spice.

[QUOTE=cliffburtonrules]I read an interesting thing in the Religion/Politics thread in the Pit once.

A guy used a very good analogy:

Say you're on a gameshow. Behind curtain A there is a 50/50 chance of there being a brand new car. Behind curtain B there is absolutly nothing. Which is the logical choice? Most people would say curtain A.

Alright pretend curtain A is a religion and the car is a life in heaven. Pretend curtain B is aetheism. If you pick curtain A you have a chance at heaven, and if you pick curtain B you're done when you're dead. Now if there is no car (heaven) then it's you're in the same place you would be if you picked curtain B.

Do you guys understand?[/QUOTE]

This is the WORST analogy ever. Thats just saying you should believe in God just so you have all your bases covered. THAT is the UTMOST display of hypocrisy that irish was talking about. Belief in god should come from faith, and from this faith should come from conviction. If Irish wants to not believe in God, well that is the leap of faith he is making. He is living out his own life as he sees fit. He is being his own person...he is truly living. If he (and im only using him as an example because i know he wont take any of this the wrong way) were to say he believed in god and go to church and all that hoo-ha simply because he feared the "50/50 chance" that he might go to hell, well then he is being a slave to a higher being which he doesnt even think exists.

Furthermore, what if he picked the wrong religion? What if the "correct" religion were in fact some bizarre cult where you get eternal salvation if you either follow their cult or nothing at all. If he sided with a religion simply to cover his ***, then he would be ****ed once again.

*enters catholic theology mode* God loves us, and thats why he gave us freedom: freedom to love him back (through religion or just through love of one another), or freedom to reject him. If somebody were to follow religion "just in case", then he would be throwing away God's freedom because he becomes enslaved to this idea which he doesnt even embrace.

I dont mean to pick on you, CBR, because i know this kind of thing makes sense to you and me, since we are actually catholic. But when you look at it from an outside perspective, the analogy is really screwy.

I remember that analogy, I think it's weak. For it to "work" on you, you already need to believe in heaven, because to a true atheist, there is no heaven and even if you pick Door A, you are done when you're dead anyway.

[QUOTE=gaslight]I remember that analogy, I think it's weak. For it to "work" on you, you already need to believe in heaven, because to a true atheist, there is no heaven and even if you pick Door A, you are done when you're dead anyway.[/QUOTE]
Well look at it from an Agnostic viewpoint.

Just look at it as though it really were a gameshow. (IMAGINING IS FUN!)

[QUOTE=YO_bass]This is the WORST analogy ever. Thats just saying you should believe in God just so you have all your bases covered. THAT is the UTMOST display of hypocrisy that irish was talking about. Belief in god should come from faith, and from this faith should come from conviction. If Irish wants to not believe in God, well that is the leap of faith he is making. He is living out his own life as he sees fit. He is being his own person...he is truly living. If he (and im only using him as an example because i know he wont take any of this the wrong way) were to say he believed in god and go to church and all that hoo-ha simply because he feared the "50/50 chance" that he might go to hell, well then he is being a slave to a higher being which he doesnt even think exists.

Furthermore, what if he picked the wrong religion? What if the "correct" religion were in fact some bizarre cult where you get eternal salvation if you either follow their cult or nothing at all. If he sided with a religion simply to cover his ***, then he would be ****ed once again.

*enters catholic theology mode* God loves us, and thats why he gave us freedom: freedom to love him back (through religion or just through love of one another), or freedom to reject him. If somebody were to follow religion "just in case", then he would be throwing away God's freedom because he becomes enslaved to this idea which he doesnt even embrace.

I dont mean to pick on you, CBR, because i know this kind of thing makes sense to you and me, since we are actually catholic. But when you look at it from an outside perspective, the analogy is really screwy.[/QUOTE]
Ya I understand the problem with it.

PLEASE DONT GET MAD AT ME ITS NOT MY ANALOGY!!!!

I just thought to someone who was like.......... a real practical person, it might make sense. Sorry to sound hypocritical.

[QUOTE=cliffburtonrules]Ya I understand the problem with it.

PLEASE DONT GET MAD AT ME ITS NOT MY ANALOGY!!!!

I just thought to someone who was like.......... a real practical person, it might make sense. Sorry to sound hypocritical.[/QUOTE]

I meant to clarify in the last paragraph that i wasnt mad at you, since it was not you who penned the analogy. I just dont like seeing it being used becuase it is (in my opinion) severly flawed. Im not mad at anybody...nothin but love here... :smoke:

Ok I'd love to sit here and listen to all of your opinions but I have loads of homework and my sister wants to go online (she's one of the most devout Catholics I know)

So I love you bass forum and I respect you all! :thumb: