[QUOTE=vallely2004]Only found 2-3 posts refuting that My Chemical Romance are not Emo, this one and another one were pro My Chemical romance = Emo[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=cbmartinez]Their [MCR's] first CD was good, They are pop-punk though.[/QUOTE]
Also, the post you quoted and several others like it have paragraph-long replies that refute those statements easily.

In reply of the post you quoted:
[QUOTE=Bartender]I won't quote the rest of your post (and make points against bits of it), because this is where the problem lies. Music is about opinion in so far as liking it or not, yes, but not with genres. A band either plays one type of music (and I don't mean that there are no bands that mix styles of music, before you throw that back at me) or they don't, it's not individual to each person listening. For example, Slayer (broadly) play metal. Saying that to you, Slayer's music is punk doesn't make it so. Genre isn't opinion, and so it can be wrong.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTe=BuddyBigsby]September, you seem like an intelligent guy, so I'm going continue this in as mature a manner as I can. The problem is, you're taking your information from the wrong people. Revolver magazine, I'm sorry to say, is not the greatest authority on a genre like emo. Their writers are paid to write about all kinds of music, mainstream music. The majority of them (as there is bound to be a few) haven't been in the scene and don't know what they're talking about, this is why for underground music, you must turn to underground publications such as zines or even websites. I mean, the guys at Revolver that write about Senses Fail and emo are the same guys that write about Korn. They know a little bit of everything, but emo is something that the mainstream media is wrong on. I'm somewhat of a journalist and one of the first things I was ever taught is that the MOST important thing in writing, is to write in consideration of your audience. If your audience thinks that Senses Fail and Silverstein are emo because another media outlet has been shoving that down their throats, then guess what... you're going to reenforce that belief and keep the subscriptions coming. A lot of it is politics.

I'm going to be really cliche here by posting this link... and I think this site goes a little bit overboard with classification, but it WILL give you a general idea of emo and its roots and where it has come today... [url]www.fourfa.com[/url][/QUOTe]

[QUOTE=SubtleDagger]Also, the post you quoted and several others like it have paragraph-long replies that refute those statements easily.[/QUOTE]

yes I noticed that quote you posted. And actually I read the whole post I quoted and those were the only times it mentioned MCR!

[QUOTE=vallely2004]yes I noticed that quote you posted. And actually I read the whole post I quoted and those were the only times it mentioned MCR![/QUOTE]
Check the edit.

[QUOTE=DFelon204409]*draws sword*

Would you really like to continue this argue in the proper thread?

To answer some questions from throughout the thread...

You (or some other idiot) asserted that MCR could not be pop punk because they are too complex. I'm going to subdivide this into a) why pop punk can be complex and b) why MCR is simple.

a) Pop punk as a genre is defined as punk that is catchy enough to render it popular to the general public. This includes what is usually a dumbing down or simplifying of lyrics. This genre was pretty much invented by the Descendents. If you lsiten to songs of their like "I'm the One" or "Original Me," you'll know that they're actually sort of complex. The drumming is standard fare of fast stuff but the bass and the chord progressions are sick. There is a lot of interesting stuff going on in these songs, prooving that pop punk indeed can be a complex thing. Other bands that add some complexity to pop punk: No Use for a Name, Lagwagon, Coheed and Cambria

b) I mean in the face of bands like Psyopus and Dillinger Escape Plan, or Beethoven and Mahler, most music is pretty freakin simple. If I were to analyze MCR songs against these guys, there's no question that MCR is more of a poppy farce than anything else. To make you feel it more I'm going to analyze their individual playing style against NFG. Yes, that's New Found Glory. Let's take the new single from [i]Three Cheers for Sweet Revenge[/i] since you claim that MCR definitely didn't sell out. All I hear are high pitched repetitive vocal melodies with minimal screaming, straight forward drumming, and straight palm-muted guitar chord progressions. Lame. If you're still not believing me listen to NFG's single from their new CD [i]Catalyst[/i]. Everything's the exact same, they even have the little scream section thanks to Chad Gilbert, formerly of Shai Hulud. To sum up what I'm trying to say, MCR is simple on a par with other radio friendly pop punk bands.

You (or some other tool) also said that Rancid wasn't pop punk and even reinforced this point with uncessary exclamation points. Unfortunately, you are wrong. Sure they've had some even hardcore punk songs in the past (if we're going to look at [i]Rancid 2000[/i]) but now that they're on Atlantic Records (when they swore they'd enver sign to a major) and released an album with ridiculously dummed down lyrics and songs to mass fan appeal, I have trouble seeing that they remain a punk band. Pop punk seems much better.[/QUOTE]
Dammit, DFelon, you should be a politician.

What would you classify Alexisonfire in?

Quote from [url]www.fourfa.com[/url]

"-By 1999, this type of music had achieved a fan base far larger than any of the original emo stuff. In fact, that's what prompted me to write this website in the first place - the glut of info on the web about this and the lack of a historical perspective. Statistically, you the reader are most likely to be familiar with this type of emo. In the years since then, it's only grown far, far bigger. Jimmy Eat World and Thursday are in regular rotation on MTV and many corporate alternative radio stations, and sappy music like this Dashboard Confessional fellow is pulling in a whole new audience. This is well on its way to becoming a major demographic market. But the original emo influence is still there, for instance Jimmy Eat World, who used to open at every emo show in Phoenix way back in 1994."

JEW and Taking Back Sunday = ALOT LIKE MCR!

[QUOTE=DFelon204409]Dude. Searching a thread for MCR isn't going to reveal the countless Subtle, others, and I have argued comparable arguments down into the ground. MCR is just like tons of other equally generic and bland pop punk bands that scream every so often like Hawthorne Heights, Finch, Taking Back Sunday, or Brand New, and we've argued down all of the arguments for those bands being emo. I'm telling you that you are wrong and that you're not going to win this argument. Either accept that we're right or run away with your tail between your legs. Listen to Hot Cross and try to tell me that MCR is as emo as that. Listen to Saetia. List to Off Minor. Listen to Circle Takes the Squares. Listen to multitudes of bands that proove you wrong. Do something! My GOD YOU'RE STUPID![/QUOTE]
Did you read the link I posted?

He said he listens to just about all those bands and still thinks MCR is emo. I don't get it.

[QUOTE=DFelon204409]No man. When I grow up I'm destined to be a jacka[size=2]s[/size]s.

P.S. Are you in college yet? I want to be your facebook friend.[/QUOTE]
I'm not sure if I'm going to college or not yet.
[QUOTE]JEW and Taking Back Sunday = ALOT LIKE MCR![/QUOTE]
Way to completely miss the point.

[QUOTE=SubtleDagger]
Way to completely miss the point.[/QUOTE]
I didnt read his pos before posting mine own, because I was serching through the EMO site [url]www.fourfa.com[/url] :thumb:

[QUOTE=vallely2004]I didnt read his pos before posting mine own, because I was serching through the EMO site [url]www.fourfa.com[/url] :thumb:[/QUOTE]
First off, MCR are not anything like JEW and TBS.

Second off, TBS and JEW are not standard emo bands anyway.

At the end of the day guys, Im not giving in or backing down. I have listened to proper emo especially Rites of Spring and Hoover, all I am saying at the end of the day is that MCR are a lighter version in the emo sector. I'm not saying they are are full on emo.

And I think you (SubtleDagger and DFelon204409) are way too narrow minded when it comes to opinions and genres. You may listen to many genres but thats not my point, you take music way too seriously at the end of the day. I really actually couldnt give a toss whether MCR are emo or not (I know I had this big argument but so what? I have time on my hands tonight!), I listen to music I like regardless of genres.

[QUOTE=vallely2004]At the end of the day guys, Im not giving in or backing down. I have listened to proper emo especially Rites of Spring and Hoover, all I am saying at the end of the day is that MCR are a lighter version in the emo sector. I'm not saying they are are full on emo.

And I think you (SubtleDagger and DFelon204409) are way too narrow minded when it comes to opinions and genres. You may listen to many genres but thats not my point, you take music way too seriously at the end of the day. I really actually couldnt give a toss whether MCR are emo or not (I know I had this big argument but so what? I have time on my hands tonight!), I listen to music I like regardless of genres.[/QUOTE]
You're still wrong, because they have no element of emo at all, and you are incorrect in suggesting it. Genres have no opinions involved, a band either utilizes a genre or they don't, and MCR do not have any emo. You lose, game over.

I think there should be a rule that states, arguing with S&L vets means you lose.

[QUOTE=pixiesfanyo]I think there should be a rule that states, arguing with S&L vets means you lose.[/QUOTE]
/truth

You just wait, though, morrissey will end up being a vet and will prove our theory wrong.

Or DD and ATC. :'(

[QUOTE=DFelon204409]Dude. fourfa.com is completely wrong about the evolution of emo from 1994-present. If you'd like, after dinner I'll write it out for you vallely.[/QUOTE]

Actually if you did that I'd read it, it'd be cool... If the offer still stands. Thanks :thumb:

[QUOTE=cbmartinez]I find March On Electric Children is not really cohesive. Sure, they've progressed musically but the focus isn't really on the music. I don't know, This Adultery Is Ripe still stands as the album that is the most cohesive, spastic, focused, hard-hitting, well I could go on forever.[/QUOTE]

It's actually the quirkiness of MoEC that made me like it more than TAiR. Not that TAiR's seriousness didn't impress me, I just think that the weird factor made The Blood Brothers' music all the more rewarding(take "American Vultures" for example).

edit: wups, double post

Ok im too lazy to look through every thread in here so im just gonna ask... What are The Blood Brothers considered?

^Their classification is actually in the first post.

[QUOTE][B]Dance/Indie/Grind that is rooted in emo but is eclectic[/B][/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=cbmartinez]'Tis true. When I was a n00b like yourself, I called Poison the Well hardcore, Thursday screamo and Saves The Day emo. It was ugly. But I soon learned from the best of the best, Buddy, iHATEgc and Dfelon. I tried to hang on bitterly to my false realities, but now, I''m pwning many a noob so that one day, they might ride along side the greats.


That was so epic.[/QUOTE]

*cries* I strive to achieve better understanding of what is emo too.

I still have to learn, though. From Autumn To Ashes, Avenged Sevenfold and Atreyu are metalcore, right? FATA being ... more prog then the 2 others?

Does Across Five Aprils ( GREAT band ) fit into emo?

While Alexisonfire are sometimes described as post-hardcore, do they have roots within screamo?

ForDireLifeSake and Saosin? HELP

[QUOTE=DFelon204409]Dude. fourfa.com is completely wrong about the evolution of emo from 1994-present. If you'd like, after dinner I'll write it out for you vallely.[/QUOTE]

How do you know it is wrong?

And is there any other place where we can retrace the evolution of emo from 1994 up to present?

I haven't heard Jets To Brazil yet, but I have heard they are emo. Anyone confirm/deny?

It's all because of the Deep Elm emo conspiracy. : |

The last two pages were awesome. That was some of the best hardcore a[B][I][/I][/B]ss-whooping in the form of lengthy, educational paragraphs I've seen in a while. Nice job.

What would you classify A Static Lullaby into?

popcore/"emocore"

[QUOTE=DFelon204409]
Saosin - Pop Punk
[/QUOTE]

wow, pop punk is getting good then. when i think of pop punk i think of bands i can't stand like good charlotte and stuff.

and i have a question. does anybody know if there are any more live saeita songs out there besides the five on a retrospective: the poet you never were, ariadne’s thread, notres langues nous trompent, the sweetness and the light, and endymion? cause i would really like to find some more.

Pop-punk has a lot of good bands. GC are not pop-punk, just pop.

[QUOTE=SubtleDagger]Pop-punk has a lot of good bands. GC are not pop-punk, just pop.[/QUOTE]

oh. well, i like brand new's latest cd deja entendu. but that was the only band i liked that i thought was pop-punk. but i guess there are others. rise against is punk, not pop punk, right?

I would just like to commend Subtle and DFelon for the near legendary pwning these last two pages. Wish I could've been around to lend a helping hand.

[QUOTE=srt-4]oh. well, i like brand new's latest cd deja entendu. but that was the only band i liked that i thought was pop-punk. but i guess there are others. rise against is punk, not pop punk, right?[/QUOTE]
I would say without a doubt that Rise Against is punk.

[QUOTE=SubtleDagger]I would say without a doubt that Rise Against is punk.[/QUOTE]

ok good, at least i was right about something. the whole saosin being pop punk threw me off though. lol.

[QUOTE=srt-4]and i have a question. does anybody know if there are any more live saeita songs out there besides the five on a retrospective: the poet you never were, ariadne’s thread, notres langues nous trompent, the sweetness and the light, and endymion? cause i would really like to find some more.[/QUOTE]

and a bump for this question

I doubt it. A Retrospective is everything they ever recorded and those 5 songs are likely the only ones the band had in their possession. If there are any other live recordings, they'd be extremely difficult to find.

[QUOTE=DFelon204409]Some songs even bridge onto hardcore punk like the first song from the new CD. I only have Revolutions per Minute and collected mp3s so I wouldn't really know but whatever. The random mp3s tell a lot actually.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, they have a lot of flashes of hardcore but they just have way too much punk in them. Lots of really fast chords and some uncommon melodic lines.

From Lambgoat:
[quote]Haram, a new outfit from the Virginia/D.C. area, have finished recording a demo. The three-song demo was recorded earlier this week with Matt Squire and you can download a song [URL=http://www.harammusic.com/track%2001.mp3]here[/URL]. Haram consists of Kevin Lamiell (Majority Rule), Matt Michel (Majority Rule), Mike Taylor (pg.99), and Andy Gale (Corn on Macabre). The band will play their first show on January 14th in Washington DC at the Warehouse Nextdoor, along with Malady and Envy. The group is also in the process of booking an April tour, which will run from April 1st through the 16th.[/quote]

I'm digging the song. It's not really emo though, reminds me of Malady, but better.

It's pretty good, definitely some emo influence in it. I love pageninetynine and I love Majority Rule more so I'm looking forward to hearing more.

So I checked out Stickfigure records and they have a lot of cool bands. I'm just going to list them under the genre they are closest too, I'm not sure if they are true emo/screamo.

[B]Screamo/Grind/Hardcore[/B]
*[url=http://stickfig.spinweb.net/stickfigurerecords/iwould.mp3]I Would Set Myself On Fire For You- "Chinese Freeze Tag"[/url]
[url=http://stickfig.spinweb.net/stickfigurerecords/coulier.mp3]Coulier- "F[SIZE=2]u[/SIZE]ck F[SIZE=2]u[/SIZE]ck F[SIZE=2]u[/SIZE]ck"[/url]
*[url=http://stickfig.spinweb.net/stickfigurerecords/stick014cd.mp3]Blame Game- "Dr Hathaway"[/url]
[url=http://stickfig.spinweb.net/stickfigurerecords/chapi.mp3]Blame Game- "Learn(?) To Earn"[/url]
[url=http://stickfig.spinweb.net/stickfigurerecords/camarocrotch.mp3]Camaro Crotch[/url]
[url=http://stickfig.spinweb.net/stickfigurerecords/stickcdr010.mp3]Me And Him Call It Us- "Innocent Bystanders Watched In Horror As Peter Jennings Drew His Murder Weapon"[/url]
*[url=http://stickfig.spinweb.net/stickfigurerecords/britney.mp3]Lack- "Kill Britney"[/url]

[B]Emo/Hardcore/Post-Hardcore[/B]
*[url=http://stickfig.spinweb.net/stickfigurerecords/003.mp3]Milemaker- "Chronology Of The Service Industry"[/url]
[url=http://stickfig.spinweb.net/stickfigurerecords/vs.mp3]Death Of Marat- "Science Vs. Sorcery"[/url]
[url=http://stickfig.spinweb.net/stickfigurerecords/stick016cd.mp3]Electrosleep International- "The Great Tomorrowland Famine"[/url]
*[url=http://stickfig.spinweb.net/stickfigurerecords/04.mp3]The Hal Al Shehad- Local Seeing[/url]
*[url=http://stickfig.spinweb.net/stickfigurerecords/06.mp3]Wheeljack- "Kulture Kampf"[/url]

*= Highly Suggested

Feedback on the correct genres would be nice. Electrosleep International has Portrait's drummer.

Oh yeah, Stickfigure had two Potrait songs. The sound quality on "All My Chances" is pretty bad. "Even Now" is great though.

[url=http://stickfig.spinweb.net/stickfigurerecords/portrait7a.mp3]All My Chances[/url]
[url=http://stickfig.spinweb.net/stickfigurerecords/stickdisc002.mp3]Even Now[/url]

[QUOTE=DFelon204409]Going back to Rise Against, I think the reason I like them so much is because it really sounds like they mean it in the music. They are a very political band who do have some variety to their subjects but the way they play their instruments and especially the vocals are really poignant and candid. I love how it inspires me to believe whatever they believe even if it really isn't the way I think. They have that ability to trasmit a palpable yet difficult to pinpoint emotion throughout their music, which is why they totally own, man.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, they're so good that way. I'm not really sure how they do it, I think it's the speed and the singer's vocals.