i need help decidin which album to get

AEnema or lateralus

suggestions?
help?

Flip a coin

Or on a serious note, Aenima if you haven't heard Tool before

Lateralus if you want the deeper experience

k cool

thanks ill get lateralus cuz ive heard a lot of undertow, etc.

Hey all... im back.. been super busy with some life issues. I'm glad to see this thread has taken off so successful. I see it has became more of a general discussion rather then my whole theory plan or anything too technical like I was looking for. But thats fine.. its still cool. glad to see all the activity.

AS for the question on wich CD to buy, id recommend AEnima. just for the simple fact that the cd is alittle more easier to swallow for the general public. Alot of people enjoy lateralus more, but its takes alittle more to understand the in's & out of the cd. AEnima is a solid rock album. many great tracks, great lyrics, and its a mix between hard rock and softer rock. as for lateralus, its more of a cd you'd study, and think of millions of ways to interpet, same for AEnima, but I feel LATERALUS is somewhat deeper in that sense.. It all depends in what style of music you like. I enjoy all the cds, and Id say AEnima is great for "beginers"

[QUOTE=ToolOwnsYou]Hey all... im back.. been super busy with some life issues. I'm glad to see this thread has taken off so successful. I see it has became more of a general discussion rather then my whole theory plan or anything too technical like I was looking for. But thats fine.. its still cool. glad to see all the activity.
[/QUOTE]

WELCOME BACK!

I've been keeping 'your' thread active, but you are right, there hasn't been that much about lyrics/deeper meanings, though we have had some interesting APC talks, and one user who had a negative first post against Tool, but now posts positively

Awaiting some more of your opinions, i've dried iup on mine, been concentrating on learning/modifiying the guitar parts instead

im no beginner with tool though

whatever ill get em both

[QUOTE=Adam Jones is GOD]WELCOME BACK!

I've been keeping 'your' thread active, but you are right, there hasn't been that much about lyrics/deeper meanings, though we have had some interesting APC talks, and one user who had a negative first post against Tool, but now posts positively

Awaiting some more of your opinions, i've dried iup on mine, been concentrating on learning/modifiying the guitar parts instead[/QUOTE]

hehehe... my thread... yea right. its the 'peoples' thread! :thumb: I just got things up and running. If anyone was to ask me who thread it was i'd have to give you the credit. You've done an awesome job keeping things in shape, and moving further. I havent read all 26pages, but many of them. and Id say it looks great.

I have been working on a few more of my deeper meaning of some tracks, I think Im going to express my opinion of some tracks from undertow. Undertow has seem to almost been forgotten, and I feel its my duty to help this awesome album out. Once again you guys rock! keep up the good work.

:evil:

[QUOTE=ToolOwnsYou]If anyone was to ask me who thread it was i'd have to give you the credit. You've done an awesome job keeping things in shape, and moving further. I havent read all 26pages, but many of them. and Id say it looks great.
[/QUOTE]

Arrrr shucks :D

Yeah, Undertow has always been overlooked, I make it my job to listen to that more than the rest, and tracks have grown on me (i still think 4 degrees is the most catchiest riff ever)

26 pages? Man, never noticed that, it has done well! Though most of them were probably just helping people convert to Tool.

But still 0 spam, and 0 (unconstructive) flaming, this is probably one of the more friendlier threads on MX

[QUOTE=demon_hunter]im no beginner with tool though

whatever ill get em both[/QUOTE]

Well, if you havent purchased AEnima or Lateralus.. id have to say you are still pretty newbie.. thoes were their two most powerful albums yet. Ive owned both of the albums the day they were released. and I still sit on ponder on the lyrics and music structures. By saying "beginner" I meant no harm...


:evil:

Id consider myself a tool newbie, ive just started listening to them over the past few days. Id totally recommend Aenima to anyone wanting to start listening to the band. But i personally got hooked by undertow, that just me though.

[QUOTE=Adam Jones is GOD]Arrrr shucks :D

Yeah, Undertow has always been overlooked, I make it my job to listen to that more than the rest, and tracks have grown on me (i still think 4 degrees is the most catchiest riff ever)

26 pages? Man, never noticed that, it has done well! Though most of them were probably just helping people convert to Tool.

But still 0 spam, and 0 (unconstructive) flaming, this is probably one of the more friendlier threads on MX[/QUOTE]

I myself rarely listen to Undertow. I've been so focused on Aenima and Lateralus. I am now taking a further deeper look into Undertow. Yes dude I totally agree, 4 degrees has the catchiest riff! Undertow has lots of good riffs, so does Opiate. I feel Adam's style changes a bit on aenima and Lateralus. Maybe its just me though. But I'll soon be posting my thoughts on Undertow tracks!

Here's my first attempt at an APC analysis - giving my rough veiw of the song. I'll try and continue track by track for the next little while!

The Package: this seems to be from the veiw of an addict, meeting their ‘dealer.’ The addict and dealer both know that this is not a friendship, despite keeping up the pretence:

[I]Eye on what I'm after
I don't need another friend
Smile and drop the cliche
'Till you think I'm listening[/I]

The addict knows also that this meeting has only one purpose, to exchange the package of whatever the addict is after – I’ll assume drugs, but this could be true of an addiction to anything – alcohol, sex, exercise...the easiest analogy is the drugs though.
[I]I take just what I came for
Then I'm out the door again

peripheral on the package
Don't care to settle in
Time to feed the monster
I don't need another friend

Comfort is a mystery
Crawling out of my own skin[/I]
These lines are referring to the beginning stages of withdrawal, the fever that drives the addict to need another ‘hit.’
[I]
Lie to get what I came for
Lie to get just what I need
Lie to get what I crave[/I]
This shows how far the addict is willing to take their need...to the point of deception.

[I]Lie and smile to get what's mine[/I]
Thus aknowledging the delusion that addicts often feel, that the package rightfully belongs to the antagonist...
[I]
Give this to me
Mine, mine, mine
Take what's mine
Mine, mine, mine
Take what's mine
Mine, mine, mine[/I]
The violence of the delivery of these lines shows what the withdrawal is capable of producing in the addict...violence of words, if not physical too. The way these lines are delivered show also that this explosion is out of character for the antagonist, that the addiction has them tightly coiled and trying to reign in the aspects of character that have taken over in this time of need. The way the song returns to its peaceful, yet still tense state, shows the addict regain a little control over themself. This alternating explosion of anger and regaining control repeats itself again before the song fades.

[I]This is mine, mine, mine, not mine[/I]
Its interesting to note that last line: at the last second the antagonist concedes the truth, though presumably only after gaining “the package” for themselves.

i managed to get myself a live recording of apc at the hammersmith apollo london a few days ago (i went to that very gig...) and so all is happy...

as for tool albums...i guess i got into tool through the more accessible (sp?) apc...but the first tool albums i bought were aenima and opiate...i then got into lateralus and finally undertow...

i think as a first album lateralus may be a bit too deep and the aenima is a pretty good place to start as it is the current "middle" of tool's progression...having said this i do believe that the best of tool so far is lateralus...it's just not so easy to get into straight away...

i also found it took me months to fully appreciate tool so for anyone who doesn't get into it immediately keep at it and try different points of tool's music...

i guess if you are more into heavy music undertow and opiate are the way to go...i think they tend to sound extremely angry and the band sound perhaps as if they are trying to find their way and settle into the band they have become...aenima is really i think the point where tool's music takes a total turn and starts the new era of tool with new meanings and feelings...which are taken to a whole new level in lateralus which is possibly on of the best albums ever written...

but i guess eventually you have to own them all :thumb:

a perfet cirlce is one of my favorite bands.....everyone percieves the lyrics differently though...their cd the 13th step is really good...i bought it right away when it first came out...i heard a remix of Blue,has anyone else heard it ?? the original mix of the song is better than the remix in my opinion......

[QUOTE=an_underused_memory]Here's my first attempt at an APC analysis - giving my rough veiw of the song. I'll try and continue track by track for the next little while!
[/QUOTE]

Good analysis, I agree with all that, plus its given me a more insigtful look into the song. One thing that i've noticed with the lyrics and instrumentals, is how well they compliment each other.

For example, the guitar starts off lightly, the sense of calm, comfort. The heavier bass line enters, building up that feeling that there's something building beneath the surface, the acceptance of the user's addiction, but its still in the background to the concealing calm.

Then when Maynard bursts out [I]Give this to me[/I] the instruments increase intensit and volume, with the dramatic change, brings the sense of anger, desperation, and unltimately, total dependece. the song no longer feels calm and safe, and it continues in this trend, until the end, where it returns to the calm, and the lyrics [I]This is mine, mine, mine, not mine[/I] are sung in a hushed tone, showing that the acceptance has kicked in and that there may be hope for the addict after all.


haven't analysed anything of Tool/APC for a while, so nice to do so again

My friend and I were working on a cool theory for the Lateralus album with alternate track order and such and the Book of Enoch I think it was called. And by "my friend and I" I mean just my friend well I sat around. If this idea is new to you I can try to type what I remember of it.

[QUOTE=miserychick]a perfet cirlce is one of my favorite bands.....everyone percieves the lyrics differently though...their cd the 13th step is really good...i bought it right away when it first came out...i heard a remix of Blue,has anyone else heard it ?? the original mix of the song is better than the remix in my opinion......[/QUOTE]


Yeah, THIRTEENTH STEP is an awesome album. I also got it that day it came out...actually at a midnight sale Tower Records had that night. Anyway, I've heard the Blue Remix. They actually play it alot on the radio and I also like the orginal better....not that the remix is bad though. BUT I do have to admit that I like the Outsider Remix that came out on the Resident Evil soundtrack just a tad more than the original Outsider...and Counting Bodies Like Sheep, which is suppose to be a Pet Remix I guess, is pretty cool as well.

All the remixes so far have been done by the NIN community, so they have had some interesting results. Not heard the Blue/Outsider remix yet, but apart from the Judith remix, they all seem ok in their own way, I think the Weak and Powerless on ehtough is my favourite.

Might be looking forward to this 'new' album now

yeah, the Weak and Powerless was probably my favorite one too..but now I'm leaning a little more towards The Outsider. I think it's Danny Lohner doing the remixes except Blue which was done by James Iha...anyway, they're all pretty good.

The outsider remix is pretty good. It's a really interesting remix. :thumb:

I didn't realise that this would be a confession until I read that most ppl's opinions differ from mine....
but i LOVE the Judith remix!
a lot more than weak n powerless...
i think it sounds great in the industrial setting, but i guess all the guitar-heads in here (and elsewhere) are a little cut that the rock elements were lost. I was too, at first, but then i appreciated it in a different way. The w & p remix to me looses a bit because it doesn't have the dynamics of the original..but as a drummer its nice to hear some diferent beats to compliment the original also...it feels like danny lohner was just showing off the 2 approaches he has to remix - like "here's the rock one; here's the electro one"
yet to hear all the other remixes, but i look forward to it!

[B]Weak and Powerless[/B] – this one i feel is from the point of veiw of the addict, addressing the addiction itself.
[I]Tilling my own grave to keep me level[/I]
This shows a dual acknowledgement - that the character is on a descent, and that it can end in death, but that this descent keeps him together, at least more than giving up and feeling withdrawal symptoms.
[I]Jam another dragon down the hole[/I]
Ok, here i admit i have no idea what a dragon is, and what its doing down a hole! Is it a drug reference, or is it himself as a dragon being jammed down the hole he is digging??
[I]Digging to the rhythm and the echo of a solitary siren[/I]
Again, an ambiguous line...what is the solitary siren. Obviously the addict feels alone and solitary but perhaps its the siren in the straight part of his mind, telling us he knows that this is wrong, he’s sending himself warning sirens, but...
[I]One that pushes me along and leaves me so
Desperate and ravenous[/I]
The siren pushes him along...perhaps the alarm in his body that tells him its time for another hit? (once again i’m using the metaphor of drug addiction coz its the easiest but just extend the metaphor for any other addiction.)
[I]So weak and powerless over you[/I]
(aaahhh, finally a more obvious line!) the ‘you’ is the addiction itself

[I]Someone feed the monkey while I dig in search of china[/I]
‘digging all the way to china’ shows just how deep the hole he’s digging can get. But please, whats the **** monkey? Is it himself – as in ‘look after me as i can’t stop myself’ ? Or is the monkey someone/something that he should be looking after but cannot do this due to addiction – i.e. wife, kids, work etc
[I]White as Dracula as I approach the bottom[/I]
Dracula who was white due to his constant need for his drug – blood.

[I]Little angel go away, come again some other day[/I]
‘Little angel’ is either the good conscience or an outside figure, tempting the antagonist away from their addiction, but, like many addicts, the descent feels so comfortable. (‘comfortably numb’ you might say.)
[I]The Devil has my ear today, I'll never hear a word you say[/I]
the devil being the bad conscience/addiction
[I]He promised I would find a little solace and some peace of mind[/I]
the solace and peace of mind coming from satisfying the addiction
[I]Whatever just as long as I don't feel so
Desperate and ravenous[/I]
Showing that the protagonist is so taken by the disease of addiction that they’re happy just to stop the withdrawals.
[I]So weak and powerless
Over you[/I]
I’d welcome any interpretations of those lines i’m struggling with! And all discussion is expected if you disagree with any of this, thats half the fun! Hope you enjoy!

[B]PS[/B] I'm not including the complete lyrics in these analyses, but if anyone is interested, i've created my own *.doc file of the 13th step complete lyrics, since i couldn't find them all together on the net. I'm happy to email it to anyone

This is a pretty pointless post but I thought I'd at least stop by to acknowledge this discussion. I'm not overly enthusiastic about the band itself, but I love the intellectual genius of Maynard's lyrics. What probably draws me toward Tool so heavily is that I'm a dork. I [i]am[/i] a guitarist but above all else, I'm just an antisocial science nerd, particularly in the unknown and newly explored regions of Quantum Physics, Spirituality, and Psychology.

[quote]I embrace my desire to
feel the rhythm, to feel connected
enough to step aside and weep like a widow
to feel inspired, to fathom the power,
to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain,
to swing on the spiral
of our divinity and still be a human.

With my feet upon the ground I lose myself
between the sounds and open wide to suck it in,
I feel it move across my skin.
I'm reaching up and reaching out,
I'm reaching for the random or what ever will bewilder me.
And following our will and wind we may just go where no one's been.
We'll ride the spiral to the end and may just go where no one's been.

Spiral out. Keep going.[/quote]

It all really speaks for itself so there's no point in trying to be analytical, in this case. Its just so beautiful that I often times find myself getting emotional when I so little as read Maynard's poetry. Many Tool fans don't even know that they're getting a crash course in existentialism while listening.

As for A Perfect Circle, I love them too but its a different breed of song. It speaks more of introspective struggles/realizations than it does of the mental liberation of Tool. Its much more subjective and I tend not to buy it from other bands, but APC does it well so I don't resist.

[QUOTE=an_underused_memory]. The w & p remix to me looses a bit because it doesn't have the dynamics of the original..but as a drummer its nice to hear some diferent beats to compliment the original also...![/QUOTE]

The original song was one that Billy had wrote back in the Mer de noms era, but he could never decide on what beat to use for it, Josh came up with a dozen, and it was Maynard in the end that settled on using the current one. For the remix, im not sure if danny lohner used an original one, or one from Josh's original selection, but it shows that the song can take many different routes from different inputs of music.

As for the Judith remix, I suppose its one that people who really enjoy NIN's more industrial sound can enjoy more. I always prefer songs that are performed on instruments, rather than synthesised or full of samples. But thats just me

Tool is great because it appeals to my two main musical loves: songwriting and drumming. Danny Carey is amazing and underrated. The drum solo in 46 and 2 is a great use of odd time, while not intruding on the ostinato guitar and bass pattern and the guitar solo. And Maynard's voice is without parallel. He channels progressive rock of yore while infusing it with the angst of youth.

Track listing for the new APC album

01. "Annihilation" (Crucifix cover)
02. "Imagine" (John Lennon cover)
03. "(What's So Funny 'Bout) Peace And Understanding" (Nick Lowe cover)
04. "Counting Bodies Like Sheep To The Rhythm Of The War Drums"
05. "What's Goin' On" (Marvin Gaye cover)
06. "When The Levee Breaks" (Memphis Minnie cover)
07. "Freedom Of Choice" (Devo cover)
08. "People Are People" (Depeche Mode cover)
09. "Passive"
10. "Gimme Gimme Gimme" (Black Flag cover)
11. "Let's Have A War" (Fear cover)
12. "Fiddle And The Drum" (Joni Mitchell cover)

Yup, they said it was going to be a cover album. Theres also a full remix one on the way

I want to get this album. But I would rather APC make another album that they wrote. That would be awesome.

Ok I have a question for all that care to answer. Lately I have seen a lot of Tool fans pop up, now I myself cannot say im an original Tool fan 'cause frankly i was like 4 when they released the Opiate EP, but i have been a fan since '97. Now ever since 2001 the Tool fan base seems to have risen immensley. I see all these Tool fans all over the place, and its absurd these people hear Schism once on the radio and declare themselves dedicated Tool fans. Do you know any of these kinds of people? or if you are this kind of person, I really believe you shouldn't be reading anything in this thread. And another question for those who read this, what is it in your opinion that makes Tool such a great band. So yeah, Tool is cool. Stay in School, otherwise you wont understand the words they use. (Juxtaposed is my favorite usage) yeah i know, dumb saying but hey I don't care what you think, I think for myself.

thinking hurts

yeah i hate those guys you ask what their best song is and there like Schism..so next? ohh that song umm Sober, thats its and then think that their there number one fan and ****! that piss's me off!

Who are you to decide who can be a fan of the band? I have listened to Aenima many times and it's one of my fav albums. I consider myself a fan though I haven't heard there other songs.

[QUOTE=Street Spirit (Fade Out)]Who are you to decide who can be a fan of the band? I have listened to Aenima many times and it's one of my fav albums. I consider myself a fan though I haven't heard there other songs.[/QUOTE]

i'm agreeing with you on this one...tool are one of my favourite bands...if not my favourite band...but then it isn't up to me or anyone else who enjoys their music...i just think that with a band as deep as tool there are different levels of fans...fans who just enjoy their music, fans who are facinated by it and look into it deeper than those who just look at it on the surface and enjoy that level of it, and then those who...i feel...take it too far...i mean yes maynard is an incredible vocalist/poet/intelligent human being but NO he is not god...

[QUOTE=bebubly]...i mean yes maynard is an incredible vocalist/poet/intelligent human being but NO he is not god...[/QUOTE]

this is true...while maynard may not be God, he is a musical god, such as Jim Morrison, or Jimi Hendrix....

[QUOTE=xtreme450]this is true...while maynard may not be God, he is a musical god, such as Jim Morrison, or Jimi Hendrix....[/QUOTE]

i guess so...but like i say i am not talking about people who make that comment i am talking about people who literally talk of maynard as "god"...there's just a limit you know??

exactly

Yah you say about people thinking they are h4x tool fans. I would call my self 'really into them' but have only been listening for 2 months. I have yet to hear salival, undertow and opiate. My favourite tool song is sober, the first song i heard was aenima. I always had some weird feeling about the band like they weren't my thing. But now i listen to them and i really enjoy them. For those people who just hear schism and consider themselves hardcore fans I rekon you should just ignore 'em. They don't effect you and sooner or later they will realise they won't get cool points to like tool and will go back and listen to emo...

clearvision

[QUOTE=Myvisionisclear]Yah you say about people thinking they are h4x tool fans. I would call my self 'really into them' but have only been listening for 2 months. I have yet to hear salival, undertow and opiate. My favourite tool song is sober, the first song i heard was aenima. I always had some weird feeling about the band like they weren't my thing. But now i listen to them and i really enjoy them. For those people who just hear schism and consider themselves hardcore fans I rekon you should just ignore 'em. They don't effect you and sooner or later they will realise they won't get cool points to like tool and will go back and listen to emo...

clearvision[/QUOTE]

I agree with all of you. There are different levels of Tool fans. And if someone wants to cal themself a Tool fan when they only know two songs. Let them. We know that they aren't, and would get laughed at or would piss off a real Tool fan. Hey I like some emo!

stainds cover of sober is too slow

[QUOTE=bebubly]i guess so...but like i say i am not talking about people who make that comment i am talking about people who literally talk of maynard as "god"...there's just a limit you know??[/QUOTE]


My name should include the word musician at some point I realise now, as I do agree that calling any member of a group a 'god' is a bit far in that sense, and I certinally dont want people getting the other impression :lol:

As for the idea of qualifying for a Tool fan, I never recall having to take any test to become a 'fan', so its open to anyone to appreciate tool. Like was said, there are varying levels of fans, and I know that there are 'fan boys' (those that take it as their next trend, happening more with APC though now), people who just enjoy aspects of the music, then people like me and most of the posters on here who find some deeper connection. The band never planned on what fans they wanted, like I keep refering to, their goal is to provoke a reaction that leads to something creative, no matter what the reaction, as long as it leads to something positive.