OR

should i go for this?:

[url]http://www.wwbw.com/Kustom-KPA7212-7-Channel-PA-System-i142135.music[/url]

B stock for $340

compared to that s20 or those other ones?

would there be a big difference in sound quality/loudness/overall quality?

[QUOTE=Horenulas]OR

should i go for this?:

[url]http://www.wwbw.com/Kustom-KPA7212-7-Channel-PA-System-i142135.music[/url]

B stock for $340

compared to that s20 or those other ones?

would there be a big difference in sound quality/loudness/overall quality?[/QUOTE]
That is a good PA. I own one of those.

[QUOTE=isojoe420]That is a good PA. I own one of those.[/QUOTE]

Awesome. Now "B stock" means that it has scratches/marks etc., but since its b stock and not c stock it wouldnt be too bad would it ?

[QUOTE=devildriver421]500? not much. my band has a 120w bass amp, a drumset, and my 120w guitar amp, soon to be upgraded to the 5150 which is 120w tube. we're getting a new pa system soon, and we're looking at close to $800, and its just the basics, power amp, mixer, speakers. we were looking at a powered mixer again because of the prices, but none were powerful enough, and if they were they had so many features that we didn't need and they ended up being mroe expensive. we're getting an 800w system though, so we can do shows with it. i dont know what you want to do, but get at least 200w, that'll barely work for practices. id look more at 400-500 or more[/QUOTE]

well, we just need a decent PA for rehersal and maybe a small indoor show. We just need the PA for the mic. By the way, what exactly does the power amp do?? Sorry for the question, Im not too sure of equiptments :(.

[QUOTE=americangothic]Hmm, will it still keep the louder than SS properties?[/QUOTE]
Oh yes.
It'll be the same amount of power, watt for watt. But it'll sound louder because of the harmonic content created by the tubes.

[QUOTE=soheaven]well, we just need a decent PA for rehersal and maybe a small indoor show. We just need the PA for the mic. By the way, what exactly does the power amp do?? Sorry for the question, Im not too sure of equiptments :(.[/QUOTE]
Check out some of the more recent links to some PA systems in this thread. Over the last couple of pages.
somethign with at least 200 watts will be suitbable.


A poweramp is a part of the amp that 'adds the watts'.
When you buy a powered mixer like in a packeaged system. It already has a poweramp built into it.
But, you can buy poweramps seperately. Although these are intended for use in more higher end or advanced setups.

okay, I got more question :P

1. Can you play cd players through the pa system??
2. what is a passive and a active cab??
3. Since Im low on money, would it be a problem to have one speaker and having a mixer connected to the drum mic(bass drum only) and the vocals?

[QUOTE=soheaven]okay, I got more question :P

1. Can you play cd players through the pa system??
2. what is a passive and a active cab??
3. Since Im low on money, would it be a problem to have one speaker and having a mixer connected to the drum mic(bass drum only) and the vocals?[/QUOTE]
1. Yes
2. An active cab has an amplifier built into the cab, a passive cab doesn't.
3. I don't see a problem with that.

3. Yes. But for that to work you would either need to use a powered speaker (active speaker). Or a powered mixer.

Just a mixer with a speaker will not work. You'll need a poweramp in between the two.
Remembering that a powered mixer has got a poweramp built into it. And a powered speaker has a poweramp built into it.

[QUOTE=Aes820]3. Yes. But for that to work you would either need to use a powered speaker (active speaker). Or a powered mixer.

Just a mixer with a speaker will not work. You'll need a poweramp in between the two.
Remembering that a powered mixer has got a poweramp built into it. And a powered speaker has a poweramp built into it.[/QUOTE]
I figured he would already know that.

Just clarifying. :)

Hey, I am very new to all of this, and I was wondering if you could explain the basics of PA's/Mixers/Speakers and what I would need to get vocals up and running for jamming with my band.

Put very simply, to make yourself heard you need four things:

Microphone

Mixer

Power amp

Speaker


Some of these things come combined, like you can get powered mixers, where the mixer has the power amp built in, or powered speakers, where the speakers have the power amp built in.

Look for the PA packages on musicians friend for an idea of cost. Look into ones with a powered mixer and a pair of speakers, with a mic and mic stand, I think the complete packages are the best to start off with.

For getting yourself heard over your band, look for something 200 watts or above.

Thanks very much! :wave:

I'd say 200w was for getting yourself heard over a band at a small gig. 150 might do it for practice, or even slightly less if you're practising somewhere fairly small.

Also depends on what amps the band are using.

Not Really

[QUOTE=Aes820]3. Yes. But for that to work you would either need to use a powered speaker (active speaker). Or a powered mixer.

Just a mixer with a speaker will not work. You'll need a poweramp in between the two.
Remembering that a powered mixer has got a poweramp built into it. And a powered speaker has a poweramp built into it.[/QUOTE]

So would this work if i get one of each?

[url]http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/fg=122/g=live/search/detail/base_pid/481216/[/url]

[url]http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/fg=122/g=live/search/detail/base_pid/600910/[/url]

and

[url]http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/fg=122/g=live/search/detail/base_pid/631236/[/url]

^ Those speakers are active speakers. You will not need that poweramp.
Just the mixer and the active speakers will do.

But, they are only little speakers.
They are suitble for use as on-stage monitors. But I doubt they'll be big enough to handle gigs.

[QUOTE=Aes820]^ Those speakers are active speakers. You will not need that poweramp.
Just the mixer and the active speakers will do.

But, they are only little speakers.
They are suitble for use as on-stage monitors. But I doubt they'll be big enough to handle gigs.[/QUOTE]

well were not really planning to do a gig with that PA, just for practice since were on a low budgett but im not too sure of myself if one of those speakers will be good for rehersals. But is it better to get a passive speaker and analog mixers with a seperate poweramp? Or does it really matter that much?

Well, If it is just for rehearsals. Then I reckon that mixer with those powered speakers would be a pretty good setup.

Once you go for a seperate poweramp. Then you have to also start worrying about power and ohm loadings.
The powered speaker method defiantely keeps it simple for you.

Hey guys, I don't know if this belongs here but sometimes when I sing when I use the microphones, I get tiny electric shocks from the mic to my lips. It doesn't hurt much but it gets annoying. Anyone knows a reason for this or way to stop it?

Hey Aes820,
Speaking of Active speakers, which setup do u think would be louder:

1.BEHRINGER EP 2500 POWER AMP (2 x 450w 8ohm) and 2 x Quest QA350 passive 12" (350w rms @ 8ohms) , plus a suitable mixer.

or

2.Buy 2 x Quest QSA300 Active 12" plus a suitable mixer.

The Quest passive speakers have lightly higher power at 350wrms compared to the active speakers which are 300w (bi amped)... both with similar Max SPL peak of around 127db...

More importantly, would both these options, 1 and 2 be much better in terms of vocal volume than the system i have atm.. ie.
Behringer EUROPOWER PMH880S powered mixer (2 x 200w rms @ 8 ohms) with 2 x 15" PA Accusound LoudSpeakers (200w RMS @ 8ohms 400w peak, and sensitivity of 96 dB@1watt)

cheers,
steve

Tough decision there steve.

Why don't you go for option one. If the Max SPL works out about the same then i guess it doesn't really matter much.
But if you do go for the seperate poweramp, perhaps you can keep those Accusound speakers of yours and add them onto the Quest QA350 speakers in parrallel. For those bigger gigs. Where you'll then be able to get the extra power out of the poweramp if it is needed.

yeah the first option will cost only a little extra, and ive heard these power amps are very good.. from quite a few sources... apparently one of the best value for quality out there.

That last point u made is a great point.. almost forgot that.. if i do get the option 1, ie. the power amp... i do have the option of putting another set of speakers in parrallel if need to :), with active speakers, i dont have that option.

But one question regarding the power amp... now.. at parallel, means the impedance of each side would be 4ohm... and i checked the behringer amp, and it says it can do 650w @ 4ohm on each side...

If i was to add my accusound speaker (200w rms @ 8ohms) to the Quest QA350 (350w rms @8) in parrellel on each side... is it ok that the speaker are at different rms's.. i mean.. how is the power of amp distributed to both these speakers in the parrallel... im guessing id have to just be carefull with the accusound speaker.. and make sure im not overpowering them.. is that right??

And quickly.. how would know if i was infact overpowering them... distortion??? all i know is that overpowering speakers is different to clipping.

thanks for the feedback chris,
cheers,
steve

Yeah. Um, that's a good point you broguht up. I overlooked that.

When you connect up multiple speaker cabinets. The total safe power handeling of the setup will be equal to the lowest powered speaker timesed by the number of cabinets you've got.

So, that might be a bit of a problem. Seeing as those Accusound speakers are rated at 200 watts. Meaning that the total safe power handeling of the rig while in parrallel with those other speakers would be only 400 watts.
The poweramp will be pumping 650 watts.
That's a fair amount of difference there. It may not be a good idea for risk of overpowering your speakers.

When you overpower speakers. It's hard to hear. It'll be audible as 'compression'. As the speaker is pushed beyond it's limits.
But the extra heat will probably just burn out the speaker coil. Then it'll be much easier to smell ([B]![/B]) then it would be to hear.

Maybe if you sell the Accusound speakers along with your old powered mixer, you may be able to put that cash towards some more QS350 speakers for sometime in the future. When you wish to upgrade.

Either way, the points uve just raised in that last message are great bits of info.. just more info i can use with my PA choices..thanks for that chris.

Yeah, well im definately looking at selling my powered mixer, and speakers on ebay shortly... btw chris.. if know anyone who'd be interested give me a yell..

Ive only used them about 10 times in total.. had them for 3 months and if anything have helped breakin the speakers hahaha

I bought the Behringer EUROPOWER PMH880S powered mixer (2 x 200w rms @ 8 ohms/ 2 x 400w @ 4ohms)[url]http://www.behringer.com/PMH880S/index.cfm?lang[/url] for $560
12month warranty still in action
and the
2 x 15" PA Accusound LoudSpeakers (200w RMS @ 8ohms 400w peak, and sensitivity of 96 dB@1watt) [url]http://www.accusound.com.au/PA_Series.html[/url] for $360
5yr warranty still in action

total spent $920, will probably sell for $700-$800 if anyones interested.. hahaha sorry bout the advertisment.. just incase anyone in canberra or australia wants a system for a decent price. Ill probably put on ebay or canberra times.

Um one quick question chris.. or anyone else that can help.. actually 2 questions haha

1. In regards to Quest Active speakers, Would there be a big volume difference between the Quest QSA400 active 15" speakers and Quest QSA300 12" .. they both have the same biamped power, ie LF 240 Hf 60w, and the 15" has a slightly higher max peak SPL of 129db compared to 126db of the 12".. um and i guess the only difference is the 15".. will give a better bass response.. but would this mean louder???
i would use a semi-accoustic guitar as well, so maybe the 15"s would be good.. but in honesty im more concerned about loud and clear vocals being easily heard over the music.. yet with comfortable use of the amp :)


2.I mentioned before i want a mixer (unpowered) with 7 grafic equaliser in one package.. mainly wanted this to control unecessary feedback.. is this really important or not??:.. i mean. if was to get a poweramp + 2 passive speakers + 1 for monitor etc.. is an equaliser more just for the monitor speakers.. and if so... are equalisers really that important unless the the gigs/power levels used are enormous. Basically just wondering if its all that important for my usage..... cause i dont need that many inputs.. 1 or 2 mics.. and a couple of instruments atm. There are so many mixers out there.. and alot at the $60 - $200 with the number inputs i need.

talk soon,
steve

I'm going to be doing a gig at a birthday party, for about 100 people. I've never used a PA myself before and I have close to $250.

[url]http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/fg=122/g=live/search/detail/base_pid/632200/?c_tid=topseller[/url]

Would this work for the gig and usual practice?

And could someone explain monitors a little better? Do they just act like another speaker that you put next to you so you can hear yourself? Do you plug it into the mixer?

What type of music do you play?


Yes, thats pretty much what monitors are for. You can plug them into a mixer. But I dont think that the mixer you've shown is set up for monitors.
You wouldn't have a monitor level knob to adjust the monitor levels only.

That mixer does have a line out that you could send to a power amp or powered monitors. You wouldn't have much control because the line out is the same as the speaker outputs but at a line level. The monitors would have the same mix as the mains. But this wouldn't be that big of a problem in a small basic setup.

All kinds of music. Mostly classic rock..

It could work if you only use it only for vocals and keep the amps turned down. Also have the drummer play at a low level.

Steve

1. The 3dB difference may seem like a fair bit louder. Especially whle up at that volume range. But given the cost of those speakers, It may not be worth it.
Also, they weigh quite a bit and are bulky.

And, really, guitar is a mid range instrumet. 12" should be fine. If you are gettng into a more serious setup where you'll be wantign to run a bass guitar through the PA. Then a 15" driver may come in handy. But you'll also then need more watts to.

2. You're right. That seperate EQ isn't completely necessary. It'll be very handy for sound checks, and yes, to eliminate feedback.
But if the main speakers are pointing away from the microphones (and you keep the monitors not pointing directally towards the open mics), then risk of feedback may be minimal anway.

But, if a mixer has got a 7 band EQ, it may also have numerous other handy features. Many of which may not be completely necessary for your use either. Um, it's up to you.
But the 4 mic input Behringer Mixer I've got suits me more than well enough. It hasn't got an EQ but does have digital FX and a few other handy features. It was only a couple of hundred bucks, I think.

Hey chris..
On point 1. yeah the Quest QSA300 12" i can get for $799+$40delivery.. which is a good price.. i just asked the same guy about the QSA400 15" and they are only $100 more, ie. $899.. considering the rrp is $1599 thats pretty good.. but again.. the size is the issue aswell.

On point 2. Whats the model u have.. i think as long as it has the necessary inputs, and FX im happy...

Cheers,
steve

1. That sounds very cheap. $900 compared to the $1600 rrp. Wow. Bit of a bargain.
Maybe it is worth it. I dont know.
I don't want to make your decisions for you. :)

2. I've got this one:
[url]http://www.behringer.com/UB1204FX/index.cfm?lang=ENG[/url]

[url]http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/fg=122/g=live/s=packaged/search/detail/base_id/100465[/url]

Alright, I ended up buying this, I want to know if there's anything I shouldn't do that might be a common mistake with beginners?

[QUOTE=Starship][url]http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/fg=122/g=live/s=packaged/search/detail/base_id/100465[/url]

Alright, I ended up buying this, I want to know if there's anything I shouldn't do that might be a common mistake with beginners?[/QUOTE]
Looks alright.
And units like that are very beginner friendly. They are easy to use and hard to set up wrong.

Just never plug the speaker outputs into anything other than it's speakers.
And try to avoid making it feedback sqeual too much. As that can prematurely ruin your speakers.

Have fun. :)

Don't run it without a speaker load.

hey Ace182....

How to mixers stop problems with phase? Do they have components in them to do somehting about it? Or are there never really any phase problems in general band use?

I'm just thinking about things like mic'ing up amps when you're running more than one at once, as seems to be the fashion for some people ATM.

If you use multiple mics on the one cabinet, depending on the placement of the mics, you can get some phase cancellation problems at the mixer.
If you've got one close mic, and one far mic. The signal being picked up by the far mic will be delayed. By about three milliseconds per meter.

This can introduce what is known as comb filtering, which can decrease the combined signal strength at the mixer, and in itself is the basis for some time based effects like Flangers and Phasers.

In reference to phase cancellation in relation to the entire band situation. This will only be a problem if both signals reproduced are exactally the same but only inversed. The chances of this is neglidgible.

neglidgible?

ok, thanks :D