[QUOTE=whiteminority]Neeshee, they aren't even an emo band. Lord they are a post-hardcore band that are overly technical who are whored crazily hard because Billy was in Saetia.[/QUOTE]

I agree, except that I don't mind Hot Cross. But Saetia are infinitely better. Hot Cross are overtly technical and lack the emotion of Saetia.

[QUOTE=deadohiosky9]i agree with srt-4. hot cross are a lot more mature from billy's perspective than saetia was. hes kinda gotten over himself and brought a wiser persepctive lyrically.

EDIT: Ben you're sick.[/QUOTE]

I'm not really versed in hardcore and all this, how has he gotten over himself? How was he immature?

[QUOTE=Unban Me Says Cameo]I agree, except that I don't mind Hot Cross. But Saetia are infinitely better. Hot Cross are overtly technical and lack the emotion of Saetia.[/QUOTE]
i agree that emotion makes saetia great, whereas skill and creativity make hot cross great. but they are different bands, and the fact that they approach their music from different directions doesn't to me make one better than the other. i just happen to like hot cross better, but they are both great.

i think there is equal amounts of emotion

it's just applied differently

[QUOTE=srt-4]i agree that emotion makes saetia great, whereas skill and creativity make hot cross great. but they are different bands, and the fact that they approach their music from different directions doesn't to me make one better than the other. i just happen to like hot cross better, but they are both great.[/QUOTE]

Technical skill doesn't make a band to me.

[QUOTE=Unban Me Says Cameo]Technical skill doesn't make a band to me.[/QUOTE]
123

And let's face it, the background vocals are just REALLY bad.

[QUOTE=Unban Me Says Cameo]Technical skill doesn't make a band to me.[/QUOTE]
ok, good for you. thats just another example of people having different tastes.

[QUOTE=srt-4]ok, good for you. thats just another example of people having different tastes.[/QUOTE]

What a cop out. Way to actually discuss something.

if technical skill doesn't make a band for you

just out of curiosity

what does?

[QUOTE=Floydfanatic]if technical skill doesn't make a band for you

just out of curiosity

what does?[/QUOTE]

The feeling, the groove, and emotion. Someone said if it makes me A. Tap my feet, B. Feel emotional (in a good way, not like I want to kill the stereo), or C. Think about it afterwards, then chances are it isn't an awful piece of music. Dream Theatre are awful though. They do not groove, they do not move, and they don't make me sit down and think. If technical skill is all you care about, then I don't know how you can appreciate punk rock or folk music at all.

[QUOTE=Unban Me Says Cameo]What a cop out. Way to actually discuss something.[/QUOTE]
i'm being serious, its just different tastes. bands are different and people like different things. i like the emotion of saetia too, but i don't think they are better than every band that appears to display less emotion.

[QUOTE=Unban Me Says Cameo]I'm not really versed in hardcore and all this, how has he gotten over himself? How was he immature?[/QUOTE]

Well if you read Saetia lyrics they are much more angsty and melancholy than Hot Cross lyrics. The emotional delivery is also greater in Saetia. In Hot Cross, Billy seems older and wiser, and seems to have gotten out of his pervious angst in Saetia. Hot Cross lyrics are a lot more laid back, for ex. "fuc.k not lest ye be f.ucked", theres a bit of humor here and there. "Forget the phony f.uck who thinks with an as.s instead of a head." I'm not saying he was "immature" in Saetia, i'm just saying hes wiser in Hot Cross. Its a different perspective. And like FLoydFanatic said, thre is equal amounts of emotion its just applied differently.

EDIT: no one said they liked Hot Cross only because of their technical skill. Its just a plus.

[QUOTE=deadohiosky9]Well if you read Saetia lyrics they are much more angsty and melancholy than Hot Cross lyrics. The emotional delivery is also greater in Saetia. In Hot Cross, Billy seems older and wiser, and seems to have gotten out of his pervious angst in Saetia. Hot Cross lyrics are a lot more laid back, for ex. "fuc.k not lest ye be f.ucked", theres a bit of humor here and there. "Forget the phony f.uck who thinks with an as.s instead of a head." I'm not saying he was "immature" in Saetia, i'm just saying hes wiser in Hot Cross. Its a different perspective. And like FLoydFanatic said, thre is equal amounts of emotion its just applied differently.

EDIT: no one said they liked Hot Cross only because of their technical skill. Its just a plus.[/QUOTE]
ya, hot cross focuses more on skill and creativity. that doesn't mean they are devoid of everything else.

and i agree about billy, he just got older and you can see that in his lyrics.

[QUOTE=deadohiosky9]Well if you read Saetia lyrics they are much more angsty and melancholy than Hot Cross lyrics. The emotional delivery is also greater in Saetia. In Hot Cross, Billy seems older and wiser, and seems to have gotten out of his pervious angst in Saetia. Hot Cross lyrics are a lot more laid back, for ex. "fuc.k not lest ye be f.ucked", theres a bit of humor here and there. "Forget the phony f.uck who thinks with an as.s instead of a head." I'm not saying he was "immature" in Saetia, i'm just saying hes wiser in Hot Cross. Its a different perspective. And like FLoydFanatic said, thre is equal amounts of emotion its just applied differently.

EDIT: no one said they liked Hot Cross only because of their technical skill. Its just a plus.[/QUOTE]
word. he is viewing life from a matured state of self.

[QUOTE=srt-4]ya, hot cross focuses more on skill and creativity. that doesn't mean they are devoid of everything else.

and i agree about billy, he just got older and you can see that in his lyrics.[/QUOTE]

Do you see how "hot cross focuses more on skill and creativity" is a backhanded compliment to Saetia?

[QUOTE=Unban Me Says Cameo]The feeling, the groove, and emotion. Someone said if it makes me A. Tap my feet, B. Feel emotional (in a good way, not like I want to kill the stereo), or C. Think about it afterwards, then chances are it isn't an awful piece of music. Dream Theatre are awful though. They do not groove, they do not move, and they don't make me sit down and think. If technical skill is all you care about, then I don't know how you can appreciate punk rock or folk music at all.[/QUOTE]
i'm really tired and wasn't thinking when i made that post

yah dream theater blows

and i'm never posting in the guitar forum again

what a waste of air

[QUOTE=Unban Me Says Cameo]Do you see how "hot cross focuses more on skill and creativity" is a backhanded compliment to Saetia?[/QUOTE]
no, i don't.
i think we can both agree that saetia seemed to focus more on emotional catharsis, while hot cross seems to focus more on doing new and interesting things out of the love of creating and playing music.
where we differ is that you aren’t looking at this objectively. you value emotional expression above everything else, and regard any agreement about saetia on their emotional expression to be a concession to your point of view, however, like i said before, its really a matter of taste. i also put a lot of value in hearing genuine emotional release in a band’s music, maybe even the most value, but it just so happens that in this case, i like both saetia and hot cross a lot, but i like hot cross better. you can't really quantify emotion, skill, and creativity. they are both awesome bands, i just happen to like hot cross more.

Like people said, the technical skill is just a bonus. I personally find it amazing how they entwine the two guitars and manage to go from being super technical to spacy and atmospheric all within one song. They just take it to the next level. They don't just come up with a nifty riff and build around it, you can tell they really take time to construct a song while managing to not lose a sense of flow and cohesiveness and even create a sense of improvisation with some of the really strange stuff the guitarists do. Layered over top of all that is Billy's vocals which never fail to deliver as Neeshee and others have mentioned a cross between full forced emotion and abrasive wit.

well said guys. Urban Cameo, just because someone says that Hot Cross focus more on creativity and technicality, doesn't mean that they are a band who don't care about emotion. Like Srt-4 said, Saetia obviously focused more on emotional catharsis, while Hot Cross seem more interested in the music with the emotional catharsis as an add on. They are kinda doing their own thing.

ya know what band is better than hot cross and saetia combined? phoenix bodies.

[url]http://www.myspace.com/phoenixbodies[/url]

[url]http://www.hxcmp3.com/bands/4272/index.php[/url]

they are alright.

[QUOTE=deadohiosky9]they are tight.[/QUOTE]
they are tight.

hahahaha.

all our tomorrows end today is great. hows the other stuff?

I think the Saetia songs that have good lyrics are far better lyrically than Hot Cross's.

Saetia has alot more metaphoric basings, where as Hot Cross seems just stereotypical hardcore rants about the scene.

[QUOTE=deadohiosky9]well said guys. Urban Cameo, just because someone says that Hot Cross focus more on creativity and technicality, doesn't mean that they are a band who don't care about emotion. Like Srt-4 said, Saetia obviously focused more on emotional catharsis, while Hot Cross seem more interested in the music with the emotional catharsis as an add on. They are kinda doing their own thing.[/QUOTE]

It's Unban, but for what it's worth, when emotion is an 'add on' to music, it ceases to be good music.

Bull**** argument

[QUOTE=pixiesfanyo]I think the Saetia songs that have good lyrics are far better lyrically than Hot Cross's.

Saetia has alot more metaphoric basings, where as Hot Cross seems just stereotypical hardcore rants about the scene.[/QUOTE]

saetia lyrics are more poetic, hot cross is more straightforward. i don't see the rants about hardcore except in "lend me your brain (i'm building an idiot)". Unban Cameo, your view that when emotion is an "add-on" to music it ceases to be good music is an opinion, we can't really say what Hot Cross' primary focus is. We can just guess. Billy's primary reason might be for emotion, where as the guitarists enjoy focusing more on technicality in their writing. And I do believe there is plenty of good music out there that isn't incredibly emotional.

np: closed hands

favorite saetia track

closed hands
open arms
hold nothing

[url]http://www.sputnikmusic.com/album.php?p=4842[/url]

ive never heard kayo dot.

they are awesome, as is that album

i'll send it on aim if you want

yeah that would be cool.

[QUOTE=DFelon204409]so don't act like stances on technicality and emotion are somehow a one way road.[/QUOTE]
thats what i was trying to say.

[QUOTE=deadohiosky9]saetia lyrics are more poetic, hot cross is more straightforward. i don't see the rants about hardcore except in "lend me your brain (i'm building an idiot)". Unban Cameo, your view that when emotion is an "add-on" to music it ceases to be good music is an opinion, we can't really say what Hot Cross' primary focus is. We can just guess. Billy's primary reason might be for emotion, where as the guitarists enjoy focusing more on technicality in their writing. And I do believe there is plenty of good music out there that isn't incredibly emotional.[/QUOTE]

It's not a matter of what their perogative is with the musicianship/emotional output, it's with how you perceive it. You said the emotion is an add on to the music implying it would be good if it lacked emotion. I disagree.

And Kayo Dot are AMAZING

[QUOTE=DFelon204409]torn, your problem is that you think there's only one way to enjoy hardcore and that's your way. Your reasons for liking music specifically emo, are of course going to be different than everyone else's here, so don't act like stances on technicality and emotion are somehow a one way road.[/QUOTE]

Wrong, you see they were arguing for no reason really.. it wasn't like they were going to convince eachother, so the only logical outcome was a fight.

Anyone heard of Shahrazad or Makara? I have an oppurtunity to get their split 10". I was curious if they were good or not.

[QUOTE=tornpictures]Wrong, you see they were arguing for no reason really.. it wasn't like they were going to convince eachother, so the only logical outcome was a fight.[/QUOTE]

thats true actually.