Nah Sufjan is not very electronic at all.

Mostly real instruments, with real players, in real rooms.

I wouldn't call it indie per say, more like grandiose indie with superb arrangements.

The focus is usually on his voice, but he has some amazing players behind him.

[quote=Convectuoso;18292488]Nah Sufjan is not very electronic at all.

Mostly real instruments, with real players, in real rooms.

I wouldn't call it indie per say, more like grandiose indie with superb arrangements.

The focus is usually on his voice, but he has some amazing players behind him.[/quote]


The term I've heard used is "baroque pop."

Any tracks in particular I should check out?

Also, Katatonia - The Great Cold Distance. Awesome album mix. Jens Bogren is the man

Audacity
 

+1 Audacity

just fyi audacity sucks for serious recording

The only thing I ever found Audacity useful was for opening the Rockband multi tracks to make samples of the drums lol.

Otherwise it's a piece of crap.

You get what you pay for, I guess.
Although, saying that, I STILL haven't downloaded Reaper :-\ £25, what the fuck is wrong with me. I've just spent that on Zappa CDs.

But then I've been enjoying PT recently. I think PTLE8 + Mellowmuse ATA = winner.

Reaper <3

I take it you've got it then?
Pros/cons?
Just out of interest

Just get PT9 man, that mellow muse shit is a PITA.

It's probable that I'll crossgrade to PT9 in the near future, just don't have the cash at the moment. Have you got it? How's it treating you? Any major differences between 8 (LE in particular) and 9?

Go to studica they have great discounts for the crossgrade.

I'm still waiting on the Micro/ilok from Greece which I need to cross grade.

I paid 550USD/755NZD for the Micro/plug ins. Alone the SPL Transient Designer and EQ rangers are worth over 400NZD.

Plus it comes with Drumagog Pro and sample library worth a hefty price.

Fuck it here's the entire list:

[SIZE=3][COLOR=#ff0000][COLOR=#556b2f][I]Music Production Toolkit[/I][/COLOR]

[COLOR=#556b2f][I]Drumagog 5 PRO[/I][/COLOR]

[COLOR=#556b2f][I]BombFactory Fairchild Bundle v4[/I][/COLOR]

[COLOR=#556b2f][I]BombFactory Classic Compressors v4[/I][/COLOR]

[COLOR=#556b2f][I]BombFactory Pultec Bundle v4 [/I][/COLOR]

[COLOR=#556b2f][I]McDSP FutzBox [/I][/COLOR]

[COLOR=#556b2f][I]Softube FET Compressor [/I][/COLOR]

[COLOR=#556b2f][I]URS N4 series EQ [/I][/COLOR]

[COLOR=#556b2f][I]Oxford Inflator HD UB [/I][/COLOR]

[COLOR=#556b2f][I]Moogerfooger Analog Delay [/I][/COLOR]

[COLOR=#556b2f][I]Moogerfooger Ring Modulator [/I][/COLOR]

[COLOR=#556b2f][I]Moogerfooger 12-Stage Phaser [/I][/COLOR]

[COLOR=#556b2f][I]Impact[/I][/COLOR]

[COLOR=#556b2f][I]TL Space TDM[/I][/COLOR]

[COLOR=#556b2f][I]SoundReplacer [/I][/COLOR]

[COLOR=#556b2f][I]Voce Chorus/Vibrato [/I][/COLOR]

[COLOR=#556b2f][I]Bruno/Reso [/I][/COLOR]

[COLOR=#556b2f][I]Brainworks bundle hybrid-control-boom [/I][/COLOR]

[COLOR=#556b2f][I]X-Form [/I][/COLOR]

[COLOR=#556b2f][I]Access Virus Indigo [/I][/COLOR]

[COLOR=#556b2f][I]D-Fi [/I][/COLOR]

[COLOR=#556b2f][I]BNR LE [/I][/COLOR]

[COLOR=#556b2f][I]TL Drum Rehab [/I][/COLOR]

[COLOR=#556b2f][I]VSS3 Stereo Source Reverb TDM MassivePack [/I][/COLOR]

[COLOR=#556b2f][I]Bomb Factory BF-3A [/I][/COLOR]

[COLOR=#556b2f][I]VocALign Project LE [/I][/COLOR]

[COLOR=#556b2f][I]Music Production Toolkit [/I][/COLOR]

[COLOR=#556b2f][I]SPL TransDesigner + EQ Rangers [/I][/COLOR]

[COLOR=#556b2f][I]Eleven LE[/I][/COLOR]

[COLOR=#556b2f][I]Purple Audio MC77 [/I][/COLOR]

[COLOR=#556b2f][I]EMI TG Mastering Pack [/I][/COLOR]

[COLOR=#556b2f][I]JOEMEEK SC2 Compressor [/I][/COLOR]

[COLOR=#556b2f][I]JOEMEEK VC5 Meequalizer [/I][/COLOR]

[COLOR=#556b2f][I]Maxim [/I][/COLOR]

[COLOR=#556b2f][I]Cosmonaut Voice



[/I][/COLOR][/COLOR][/SIZE]Anyways. Then I need to get a new iLok2 cuz they're much sexier. Then I shall have a pretty decent setup...minus speakers/treatment :(

Looking forward to testing the Tg mastering pack and the SPL stuff. The URS N4 eq looks pretty nice too (Neve emulation) and the Softtube FET compressor will be my go to for quick parallel compression, mix knobs ftw.

Also Drumagog 5 may or may not rock my world.

I can't find PT9 on studica at all :confused:

Right, I'm seriously considering the PT9 crossgrade now (complete change of heart, I know!). Christmas is coming up and all that, so I might be able to afford it.

I've got a Digi 003 Rack Factory* with Pro Tools LE 8 + Music Production Toolkit 2**, plus the following plugs I've bought since having PT:
- Superior Drummer, EZ Drummer + 5 EZXs
- Sonalksis CQ1, DQ1, Creative Elements Suite, MaxLimit and StereoTools
- IK Multimedia CSR suite, Opto Comp, Linear Phase EQ, Multiband limiter, clipper, EQP1A
- Izotope Ozone4, Spectron and Trash

So I'm thinking the PT9 crossgrade (approx £230) would suffice? I don't think I'd need the instrument pack (although I'm not sure) and the Complete Production Toolkit would be overkill, for now at least. Besides, the CPT is way out of my price range.

* 'Factory' features:
Digidesign Bomb Factory BF-3A Classic Compressor.
Digidesign Cosmonaut Voice.
Digidesign D-Fi bundle (Lo-Fi, Sci-Fi, Recti-Fi, Vari-Fi).
Digidesign JOEMEEK SC2T Photo Optical Compressor.
Digidesign JOEMEEK VC5T Meequalizer.
Digidesign Maxim.
Digidesign Moogerfooger Analog Delay.
Digidesign Moogerfooger Ring Modulator.
Digidesign SansAmp PSA-1.
Digidesign Tel-Ray Variable Delay.
Digidesign Voce Spin.
Digidesign Voce Chorus/Vibrato.

** MPT2 features:
Mix up to 64 mono or stereo audio tracks
Digidesign Eleven LE
Digidesign Hybrid 1.5
Digidesign Smack! LE
Digidesign Structure LE
Digidesign TL Space—Native Edition.
Multitrack Beat Detective
Pro Tools MP3 Option

[url]http://www.studica.com/us/en/Avid/pro_tools_9.html[/url]

:) have fun :)


Yeah don't bother with CPTK2. Better things you can spend your money on. You can live without VCA's and 7.1.

Spend that 2k on preamps or conversion or speakers or room treatment.
I'd maybe try go the ebay 2nd hand plug in and get a few more exotic plug ins. It looks like you've got a lot of surgical and precision plug ins, but not enough flavoursome and easily abusable plug ins. The EQP1A is a good start for EQ. Maybe a Softube FET or the new CL1b (I think that's what it's called) would give you a nice smash compressor. Smack can only get you so far. Oh and if you haven't got any drum replacement tools, I'd get one. You never know what you may get from the tracking engineer.



In other news I haggled my way into a $275NZD LaCie Raid 1TB ext HDD.

It was originally 471. It was on clearance for 350.

So I grew some nuts and told one of the sales girls that it's been sitting there for at least 6 months, I'll take it off your hands for 275. I was so surprised when the manager said yes. According to the salesgirl they were losing like $300 on the sale. Idk why they were selling it at such a loss in the first place then.

Either way it's pretty legit. Dual mirrored drives. FW800, FW400 and USD2.0. Swappable/lockable drives.

And it looks seeeeeexxxy.

Decided if I'm building a legit rig I needed a legit backup system.

I highly recommend to everyone doing a lot of file transfer/backing up to try score something similar.

[QUOTE=Convectuoso;18297194][url]http://www.studica.com/us/en/Avid/pro_tools_9.html[/url]

:) have fun :)


Yeah don't bother with CPTK2. Better things you can spend your money on. You can live without VCA's and 7.1.

Spend that 2k on preamps or conversion or speakers or room treatment.
I'd maybe try go the ebay 2nd hand plug in and get a few more exotic plug ins. It looks like you've got a lot of surgical and precision plug ins, but not enough flavoursome and easily abusable plug ins. The EQP1A is a good start for EQ. Maybe a Softube FET or the new CL1b (I think that's what it's called) would give you a nice smash compressor. Smack can only get you so far. Oh and if you haven't got any drum replacement tools, I'd get one. You never know what you may get from the tracking engineer.[/QUOTE]
Lol I swear I couldn't find PT9 on studica :p cheers man. It's not available in UK/Europe, but $125 from the US will do just fine! Even if it ends up at $150, that's like £100, woop!

I don't have that 2k anyway, rest assured when I do it will be spent on DIY acoustic treatment and monitor speakers. Along with a TL Audio EQ-2; the best EQ I've ever used! Also doubles up as a 2 x valve mic preamp, absolutely beautiful sound.

Regarding extra plugs, I see what you're saying, but if I can only just afford PT9 then I'll have to skip getting more exotic plugs. I've never looked at my setup in that way but I guess it takes an outside perspective for that to become apparent, I guess most of my plugs are more geared towards technical rather than creative manipulation. I don't really like Smack tbh, I much prefer the IK Opto comp.
Regarding drum replacement software, I've always just manually replaced parts with the samples from my EZ/SD/EZXs. I'd started at looking into getting drum hits to create midi patterns rather than audio, to then run through SD, but I'm sure there's already software out there that does that (basically drum triggers) and your suggestion of drum replacement might cover that too. Suggestions then?

gah I really like the look of Velvet, the instrument pack is approximately £250 which I can't really warrant buying seeing as I've already got Structure and Hybrid, I've got SD/EZ/EZXs so I don't need Strike and I doubt I would ever use the Transfuser loop designer. But then Velvet is on studica. So I can have the PT9 crossgrade+Velvet (if I wanted it) for approximately £250.

Damn you Convectuoso for planting these ideas :p

[quote=EmbraceRandom;18295936]I take it you've got it then?
Pros/cons?
Just out of interest[/quote]
It's simple to use, recording on it is as simple as creating a new track and hitting a few buttons, customizable interface, customizable hotkeys, cheap, comes with tons of built in FX to play with, has a huge user following with tons of helpful information, isn't tied to specific hardware, gives me a boner

granted i had kuffluffs helping me, but figuring shit out in reaper was infinitely easier than cubase 5. i will say that it can be annoying editing midi in reaper, but once you get teh hang of it, it's not so bad.

yeah, protools is still the industry standard or whatever, but you also have to pay a shit ton more and I'm not really convinced it's worth it. correct me if i'm wrong, but i think they got rid of the hardware requirements though, which was fucking stupid to begin with

[QUOTE=EmbraceRandom;18297350]Lol I swear I couldn't find PT9 on studica :p cheers man. It's not available in UK/Europe, but $125 from the US will do just fine! Even if it ends up at $150, that's like £100, woop!

I don't have that 2k anyway, rest assured when I do it will be spent on DIY acoustic treatment and monitor speakers. Along with a TL Audio EQ-2; the best EQ I've ever used! Also doubles up as a 2 x valve mic preamp, absolutely beautiful sound.

Regarding extra plugs, I see what you're saying, but if I can only just afford PT9 then I'll have to skip getting more exotic plugs. I've never looked at my setup in that way but I guess it takes an outside perspective for that to become apparent, I guess most of my plugs are more geared towards technical rather than creative manipulation. I don't really like Smack tbh, I much prefer the IK Opto comp.
Regarding drum replacement software, I've always just manually replaced parts with the samples from my EZ/SD/EZXs. I'd started at looking into getting drum hits to create midi patterns rather than audio, to then run through SD, but I'm sure there's already software out there that does that (basically drum triggers) and your suggestion of drum replacement might cover that too. Suggestions then?

gah I really like the look of Velvet, the instrument pack is approximately £250 which I can't really warrant buying seeing as I've already got Structure and Hybrid, I've got SD/EZ/EZXs so I don't need Strike and I doubt I would ever use the Transfuser loop designer. But then Velvet is on studica. So I can have the PT9 crossgrade+Velvet (if I wanted it) for approximately £250.

Damn you Convectuoso for planting these ideas :p[/QUOTE]

just get 9, the plugs that come with it are great (purple audio and joe meek)

throw the purple on guitars... pimpsmack them bitches

I've got purple audio and joemeek. I've never liked the joemeek plugs, the compressor is nothing like the hardware unit it's modelled on

If plugin options are really a big concern:

[url]http://www.fxpansion.com/index.php?page=15&tab=43[/url]

There's an awful lot of excellent freeware VST plugins out there. This is a pretty inexpensive way to bring them into Pro Tools.

Yeah a VST wrapper, I wouldn't say plugins are a major concern though, I've got quite a few, just relatively not that many for more creative manipulation. It would be incredibly 'ungrateful' of me to say I have a plugin problem though, I've got some quality shit

i'm on a vsti kick lately, can't get enough virtual instr00menz

[quote=Xomblies;18297627]just get 9, the plugs that come with it are great (purple audio and joe meek)

throw the purple on guitars... pimpsmack them bitches[/quote]
Yeah looking forward to AB-ing the MC77 and the Softube FET, will post details.

Didn't realize you had the MC77. That might be your go to smacking compressor. But yeah you should be sweet with the stock plugs, I'm just a plug in geek.

[quote]Didn't realize you had the MC77. That might be your go to smacking compressor. But yeah you should be sweet with the stock plugs, I'm just a plug in geek.[/quote]
Was that aimed at me or Xomblington?

What would you guys suggest for compression? The ones I have now are dank and cause latency. I don't think reaper has latency compensation like profools

Reaper has latency compensation built in!

lol

well shit doesn't work

Explain your problem in detail man, might be able to help

[quote=Convectuoso;18298700]Reaper has latency compensation built in![/quote]

Not every plugin reports latency, though.

[QUOTE=Moseph;18298767]Not every plugin reports latency, though.[/QUOTE]

the daw is what determines the latency

edit: meaning it finds latency based when it inputs a signal into the plug and when it gets it back out

Tbh I was thinking about this the other day.

So how does the DAW interpret how latent a plug-in is?

[quote=Xomblies;18298912]the daw is what determines the latency

edit: meaning it finds latency based when it inputs a signal into the plug and when it gets it back out[/quote]

Looks like I made a bad assumption. It might be different for RTAS/AU/DirectX (and it [I]should[/I] be different for TDM, which aren't plugins in the strictest sense of software), but that was based on the VST implementation. I shouldn't have assumed they weren't different.

Anyway, it was my understanding that the DAW kept [I]track[/I] of latency, but didn't do a comprehensive ping to determine it in the first place (e.g., that doesn't make sense for variable latency plugins, though RTAS might not do that). In other words, the plugin was responsible for correctly telling the DAW latency values so that compensation would be accurate.

I was first made away of this because of the implementation of the Christian Knufinke's SIR1:

[url]http://www.knufinke.de/sir/sir1.html[/url]

Anyway, it looks like this might be the right way to think about it when dealing with VST implementations. Tom Gersic (who's website I now admire [I]even more[/I]), made the VST SDK Docs available online:

[url]http://www.gersic.com/vstsdk/[/url]

And it does look like there are some functions designed to report latency and other time-issues from the plugin to the host: reportCurrentPosition(), getOutputLatency(), getGetTailSize().


Regarding other formats, Paul Davis (head dev of Ardour) does mention these kinds of features in VST that are explicitly missing from LADSPA natively (insert joke about Linux nerds here):

[url]http://www.ardour.org/node/761#comment-2307[/url]

For even more obscure plugin formats, that's anybody's guess. Since Reaper does PDC, I would bet that Jesusonic supports latency reporting.

most likely it just finds the difference between when it sends the signal and when it gets it back. the dev can also set a value, but pro tools can calculate delay/ allows you to manually adjust so you aren't nudging audio files around (which can get really fuckin messy)

[quote=Xomblies;18298987]most likely it just finds the difference between when it sends the signal and when it gets it back. the dev can also set a value, but pro tools can calculate delay/ allows you to manually adjust so you aren't nudging audio files around (which can get really fuckin messy)[/quote]
Hey Xomblies.

HR824s....No?...Yes?


Wait till I even have the room for them?...or grab a second hand deal...?

those mackies are ok, a good starting point at least!

edit:
regarding the PT9 crossgrade, I don't need anything else do I? I.e., i don't have to buy a new iLok do I, if I've already got one?

Just making sure they haven't produced a new iLok or anything...

Also, besides the auto delay comp, what else am I gaining (as a PTLE8+MPTK2 owner) by crossgrading?

Gah I think I've changed my mind again...

I'm wondering whether there's much to gain by crossgrading from Pro Tools LE 8 (003 Rack Factory with Music Production Toolkit 2) to Pro Tools 9, or whether I would be better spending my money on other things.

The only advantages of the PT9 crossgrade I can see so far are:
1. [b]Auto delay compensation[/b]; I had been managing by using the TimeAdjuster to synchronise all the tracks, once I knew how much latency each channel was reporting. Alternatively, there's Mellowmuse ATA, which seems to be a slightly quicker way of doing what I've been doing.
2. [b]General increases in track counts[/b], such as 96 voices (mono or stereo) up to 48KHz. I am currently running 64 tracks (mono or stereo) up to 48KHz, or 48 tracks (mono or stereo) up to 96KHz. Apparently, PT9 allows 24 tracks (mono or stereo) up to 192KHz, but will a 003 Rack support 192KHz?
Also, my instrument track count would be doubled (32 to 64), as would my MIDI track count (256 to 512), aux track count increase (128 to 160) and a bus track count increase (32 to 256).
Regardless of all this though, I mainly work at 88KHz; the track count of 'up to 96KHz', where 88KHz projects would be considered, isn't changing - it remains on 48 tracks. Also, I never use 32 instrument tracks as it is (I track their output and then disable the channel/plugin), the aux increase from 128 to 160 isn't huge, so the only advantageous track count increase is the busses.

I can get hold of the crossgrade with a student discount for around £90, which is great, but I don't think there is much point. I mainly work at 88KHz and, although slightly tedious, I've been working around the lack of auto delay compensation.

I'm trying to work out whether I'd be better putting that £90 towards either a) upgrading components in my computer (making my general PT experience a smoother one), b) buying some more 'creative' plug-ins (I agree I have a lack of them), or c) getting a 49-key MIDI keyboard + A.I.R. Velvet.

Decision, decisions...

delay compensation editing features, beat detective features. basically everything you could do in HD that you couldn't do before in LE is now possible sans the TDM handling

trust me man, delay compensation is really important for a mix

1. Of course delay compensation is important, I'm not disputing that, I'm saying I've been [i]manually[/i] getting around delay compensation for ages.
2. I've already got multitrack beat detective, mp3 option and increase voice/track count because I have the Music Production Toolkit 2.

well then for you it's a waste of fuckin money

:(

I want to [i]want[/i] to get it, kinda seems as though I need someone to persuade me to get it