[QUOTE=redrumsixsix6]o.......... well we need them for live stuff so i guess i gotta look for something else.

what speakers would i need fr live stuff 4 vocals and maybe micin the guitar amps 4 extra volume?[/QUOTE]

well, the bass drivers need to be at least 10" I'd say, preferably 12", and advise you get some stands.

look on ebay. some good brands for busget are skytec, yamaha, behringer, and soundlab.

how is this mixer for just using mics and some speakers only a samll gig.

[url]http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=39783&item=5756098582&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW[/url]

[QUOTE=The Hawk]You definitely don't want to buy the B-52 bins using that mixer. You will totally under power them and you can't run one in bridged mode, as the impedance is not matched. [/QUOTE]
There is only a risk of underpowering speakers if you run the amp up into clipping.
Although, for speakers like those linked. It'll be good to have a decent amount of power behind them. At least 2x600 watts would be nice.

redrumsixsix6: I know you're are on a budget. But I honestly think your best bet would be to save up and buy one of those 4 channel 100 watt powered mixer packaged setups.

is that a no go
on the realistic pa- [url]http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=47094&item=7305299632&rd=1[/url]

I'm looking for a good PA for like 500. Nothing special, but not crap either. Primarily will be used to practice at home and sometimes with band. I will spend up to 800 for a PA and a mic( I still haven't picked a mic). The only things I'm looking for is a vintage 60s sound, something with reverb, think along the lines of Beach Boys.

Nothing too loud, but not some crap either. Because of my lack of knowledge about PAs I have even considered buying a bass amp to use with a mic. But thats pretty much all I need, a "vocal amp". So any suggestions, hopefully with links, are welcome.

[QUOTE=Kilisab]I'm looking for a good PA for like 500. Nothing special, but not crap either. Primarily will be used to practice at home and sometimes with band. I will spend up to 800 for a PA and a mic( I still haven't picked a mic). The only things I'm looking for is a vintage 60s sound, something with reverb, think along the lines of Beach Boys.

Nothing too loud, but not some crap either. Because of my lack of knowledge about PAs I have even considered buying a bass amp to use with a mic. But thats pretty much all I need, a "vocal amp". So any suggestions, hopefully with links, are welcome.[/QUOTE]

hmmm...

you may be better off with a seperate reverb unit and a PA.

Most Pas in that range won't have any useable build in reverb.

As for a mic, Stagg make an Elvis style 50's mic, otherwise get yourself a behringer XM8500 or 2 and concentrate on getting a decent PA.

I'd reccomend a packaged PA setup. One that includes everything, inclding speaker stands, mics and mic cables.
Something like: [url]http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=live/s=packaged/search/detail/base_pid/630173/[/url]

Hi people, Firstly id just like to say a big thanks for making this thread, and in particular id like to thank Aex820 for answering so many questions as well as the many others (they know who they are) whove helped.

Bit about me: im from australia, at age of 28 just got into music, ie. self taught guitar 3yrs and wanting to sing. A year ago began these fun jams with a friend who drums, and one on lead electric guitar who uses is own guitar amp. i play semi accoustic and sing through another guitar amp. Even though we just do this for fun once a week at the schools music room, ive had enough of trying to get the guitarist to tone down as my vocals cant get any louder..and all im doing instead is having to strain my voice to match electric guitar levels (btw, just acoustically its all great.. just electric sucks a bit for the heavier rock songs) NO MORE I SAY.. so ive decided to get a PA system. Athough we arent that serious, we are getting more into it, and its definatley not outta the question and infact most likely that we may play some giggs eventually give it a couple of years :) Once I get some singing lessons etc..and my guitar improves haha So yes..for the beginning ill just use the PA for Vocals, and my acoustic guitar (since im buying the whole thing )
... OKAY... so far ive done about a months research on PA systems on net + looked at this message board, and its all starting to make sense.

Last week i bought the following speakers:
[url]http://www.accusound.com.au/PA_Series.html[/url]
ie. 2 x 15" PA LoudSpeakers
Main thing is that they are each at 200w RMS @ 8ohms (or Power Handling as it says on side of box) Mainly got these cause of the 5 yrs warranty and from advice from a muso i know. Got them for AU$305 on ebay, rrp $1000

Now... after some research, found the simplest set up to have is a powered mixer and ive narrowed my options to 3, due to Price and Power. This is where id love an opinion AES820 (or anyone else who can help) on the best match to my already bought speakers and my needs, and since im aussie, ill tell u the price i can get these for in Australian dollars (price will include the powered mixer plus postage to canberra).. haha ive found some cool deals on each one.. but they wont last long so I have to hurry. Main thing is ive decided to buy everything brand new..due to warranty etc.. and hopefully less that can go wrong.

OK..
1.Behringer EUROPOWER PMH2000
2 x 250-Watt 10-Channel Power Mixer with 24-Bit Multi-FX Processor
[url]http://www.behringer.com/PMH2000/index.cfm?lang=ENG[/url]

Is 2 x 250w @ 4ohms, and at 2x 180w @ 8ohms (btw, is this the thing I need to look at.. from what ive read it is…
Also this one says its stereo, yet hasn’t got any panning (main or at individual channels)… weird.

$510 (rrp $599)

2.Alto PBM 8.250 - 8 channel 250W powered brick mixer
[url]http://www.gtp.com.au/musiclink/index.php?page=viewStory&title=PBM8250[/url] this doesn’t tell u much.. so I added the pdf
[url]http://www.musiclab.com.au/assets/cat_images/alto/mxalpbm8250.pdf[/url]

Very similar to above behringer, but has 2 less channels, also instead of 2 x 180w @8ohms, this one says it has 2x 190w @ 8ohms, so alittle more powerful @ 8ohms it seems.
Also this one has panning at individual channels (don’t know if ill really need this). And also has added a Built-in feedback terminator.. is this important?? Or infact a nice bonus??

$517.95 (rrp $749)

3. Behringer EUROPOWER PMH880S
Ultra-Compact 2 x 400-Watt 10-Channel Powered Mixer with Dual 24-Bit Multi-FX
Processor and FBQ Feedback Detection System
[url]http://www.behringer.com/PMH880S/index.cfm?lang=ENG[/url]

I couldn’t find the power of this one @ 8ohms , but I suspect it being around the 2 x 300w @ 8ohm mark. This also has the panning with the Feedback Detection System.

$580 (rrp $699)

Now I only added the 3rd choice cause I was wondering if infact its worth paying $60 more for this one, which is obviously a better more powerful amp?? And this may well be handy down the track if I ever get more serious bout this jamming and gigging (never done one yet) stuff.
Or is it infact too powerful for my 200wrms speakers??, and although if I turned it down etc, would I have to be extremely careful not to blow my speakers??

This is where HEADROOM comes into it. All of these powered amps say they have heaps of headroom??? Eg. The Alto says: “Extremely high headroom offering more dynamic range”
Its one of the concepts im still not understanding that well. I thought by getting either the 1st or 2nd choice powered mixers, ie. With 180-190w @ 8 ohms would be pefect for my 200rms 8ohm Speakers, as I could turn the amp up (main levels and channels) and still not quite reach the full rms of the speakers, hence very little chance for a beginner like me to blow my speakers..

Ive seen the talk about poweramps matching speakers in terms of power.. does the same apply for powered mixers??Ie. Ideally if u have a 2 x 250w @ 4 ohms ud want 250w rms 4 ohm speakers
Or in my case, with the same powered mixer, ud ideally have 180w rms 8 ohm speakers to match the 2 x 180-190w this amp produces at 8ohm??? Is this the right concept.

Or does clipping infact occur whenever u turn the powered mixer full ball (main level and channel levels reasonably high) even if u have speakers well beyond the capability of this power?? So infact does good Headroom mean, when u have a powered mixer which can easily exceed the RMS of the Speakers, so therefore ull never need to ever put the levels up high…
Hence.. is the clipping due to physically turning the levels up too high on an amp.. or due to the speakers being too weak… or both..
Jeeaz I hope I haven’t confused anyone.. and hope someone can help, hope others can benefit from having this answered…

On the 1st and 2nd amp (which I think will be the one most of guys will suggest), which is infact the better brand, in terms of overall quality, lastability, warranty etc.. alto do say they give a complete replacement for first yeah I think.. ill check. The alto is priced abit higher too..ie rrp, if price means it better??? Also.. the frequency terminator may be cool thing to have..

Sorry about the length of this. And Aex820 although u probably don’t wanna have people constantly askn ya questions etc.. but is it possible to contact u via email, mine’s [email]stevieb@dodo.com.au[/email]
Cause I don’t wanna make huge posts, but with the info, ill summarise and post on here if that makes sense,

Anyways, have a happy easter guys.. and rock on
Stevie B :)

Gidday. That was one of the longest posts i've ever seen.

I'm from Canberra too. I recently bought a place in Richardson. Where you from? Who do you play with? Anyone I'd know?

All those powered mixers you linked to look suitably powered for your speakers. Although when it comes to power, you may be better off with something more watts. Perhaps 2x400 watt. But it depends.

If you are playing acoustic gigs, this will probably be fine. But if you are playing with the electric guitar at a crowded pub (perhaps the size of King O Malleys) then it'll struggle to keep up.
It's true that alot of venues supply thie own PAs and you can always rent iof needs be. But A little extra power will never go astray.

For that reason. You may be better off with a seperate mixer + poweramp setup.
Buy a Behringer mixer, one that is similar in channels and features to those other ones you were looking at. Perhaps the UB1204FX-Pro.
Talk to Steve Gray at Better Music in Phillip and he'll set you up with a suitable poweramp for your needs, and all the leads and cabels that you'll need to (Speakon connectors for your speakers).

This way you can later add on more speakers and upgrade the poweramp if you need the extra power. And you'll be able to downsize for smaller gigs to.

But, don't let me talk you out of it. If you would prefer the ease of a powered mixer then definately go for it.
And if that is the case, then I'd reccomend you go for the Behringer EUROPOWER PMH880S. You may be overpowering your speakers slighly, so you may not be able to crank it up all that much. But at least you'll have that extra headroom if needs be.

I'll cover headroom and power and clipping in another post. I've got other stuff happening at the moment and haven't got long.
Or perhaps, after Easter I'll send you an email and talk to you via that.

Thanks for that Aes820.. wow.. what a small world we live in. Im from Belconnen side, and its funny when u ask who i play with etc. as u may know them. Nah.. i know nobody on the music scene im afraid... i wish hehe
Since im only very new to all this music stuff (learned on accoustic guitar for 3yrs, knowing basic chords, and just getting into barre chords + and just beginning to sing with no vocal training - something i will get soon though.. ;) Weve only jammed in at my school's (im a PE teacher) music room i have access to for a year.. bout not much more than 30 2hr sessions all up... so very little experience.. and only now starting to think bout PA stuff and improving sound etc.
Get this.. i dont know any musos, as my friends are more into sport etc.. therefore i jam with an ex student (17yr old guitarist) and his brother 15 yr old drummer (a mate whos only beginning sometimes does some easy drumming) hahah..
what a weird concept u ask.. ie. a 28yr old man jamming with his ex students.. hehe well i love music too much to stop me goin for it.. and as i mentioned its only fun atm.. but i have to say.. these guys i jam with are awesome..and well they want me as the vocalist and rythm..and yeah.. although we are definatly not gig ready, the sessions are great fun.. with no real expectations.

so that said (i probably shouldve waited for your email and just posted this dribble to u Aes820 instead of boring the rest of the world).. im more into first catering the basic needs of jamming in a 12meter x 12meter music room, but also open to the idea of possibly performing (once i get over my nervousness) at a school stage one of these days.. and oneday when we are better to do some very small gigs.. and then oneday make it huge on the scene.. when im 35 or so... hahahah yeah right

anyways at this time im definatly gonna go with th ease of a powered mixer. Ill talk to you abit more about it once u send me an email.. but i find the topic of 'how to match powered mixer with speaker' a very interesting one .. particulary for beginners who like myself just wanna get a set of speakers, and the powered mixer..and the ease of it all.. but with some power.
Btw ill post any important info i get from Aes820s email here so others can get some benefit from it ;)

Also.... have any of u guys heard of the brand ALTO?? and lets say i was to chose the 1st or 2nd choice amp.. which is better.. Alto 2x250 or that Behringer 2x250??
im just wondering which is more durable to last longer and the better overal amp.

who knows.. i may well end up getting the 3rd choice one anyways hahaha

btw.. when we jam, we do easy gnr covers, some Led Zep, some CCR (wanna learn some more), melloncamp,rolling stones, old acdc like TNT, and so much other stuff.... and a couple of cool songs from some aussie bands like powerderfinger and hoodoo gurus. haha even tried "The first cut is the deepest" by cat stevens / rod stewart

ciao
steve

which is suitable for my situation
 

in a rock band, very loud instruments, ESPECIALLY DRUMS. we play rock and metal. we currently have a kustom kpa804 pa system and its not cutting it for us. way too weak. heres the link <http://www.music123.com/Kustom-KPA804-PA-SYSTEM-i58245.music>
we want to know what would b a smart buy from the list of top sellers on <http://www.music123.com/PA-Systems-d32.music> or which you would prefer from <http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=live/search?sc=score&so=desc&c=5335>
we dont really have a big budget though. thanks.

Hey people... ive been recently trying get info on how to match my already bought speaker boxes with a powered mixer.. a music shop sent me a pdf if anyone wants it, and it tells of the dangers of having a low powered amp for speakers. i cant post the link, so if anyone wants the pdf file, just let me know.. its not big, but gives good guidline for purchasing amps or powered mixers.
my email: [email]stevieb@dodo.com.au[/email]

and big thanks to Aes820 for helping out


cheers,
steve

[QUOTE=aussiegnr]Hey people... ive been recently trying get info on how to match my already bought speaker boxes with a powered mixer.. a music shop sent me a pdf if anyone wants it, and it tells of the dangers of having a low powered amp for speakers. i cant post the link, so if anyone wants the pdf file, just let me know.. its not big, but gives good guidline for purchasing amps or powered mixers.
my email: [email]stevieb@dodo.com.au[/email]

and big thanks to Aes820 for helping out


cheers,
steve[/QUOTE]

[url]www.yousendit.com[/url] the pdf please

thanks

[QUOTE=squirrelnutz510]in a rock band, very loud instruments, ESPECIALLY DRUMS. we play rock and metal. we currently have a kustom kpa804 pa system and its not cutting it for us. way too weak. heres the link <http://www.music123.com/Kustom-KPA804-PA-SYSTEM-i58245.music>
we want to know what would b a smart buy from the list of top sellers on <http://www.music123.com/PA-Systems-d32.music> or which you would prefer from <http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=live/search?sc=score&so=desc&c=5335>
we dont really have a big budget though. thanks.[/QUOTE]

[url]http://www.music123.com/Kustom-KPA7212-7-Channel-PA-System-i106475.music[/url]

at this level you might want seperates- look at a behringer powered mixer with some peavey or behringer speakers especially.

An older fellow we know is basically giving us his bands old back up speakers, which is really nice of him. So by our next gig, we will have two Peavey 2x15 sun-wedge cabs and one monitor. Our band plays in gyms and small venues, including house partys and such. Our amps don't really need to be mic'd, they seem to keep up just fine, however our drummer is a HEAVY hitter.Prior to this...we were always getting complaints of the vocals not being heard over the drums, and I'm getting sick of it, despite what we tell the drummer. Now, my questions.

(1) To run those speakers, we would only need to purchase a small mixer and a power amp correct?(with suitable power handlings for the speakers of course)

(2) Would running 1 monitor and those Peavey cabs be loud enough for vocals to be clearly heard, while keeping up with the drums?

What kinda power amp/mixer would you suggest to power a vocalist? Any recommendations? Preferably pretty cheap....

(3) My friend has aquired a SWR bass head...without a cabinet however. The guy we know recommended running the bass head through the low gain of the other one of our 15 inch monitors. This wouldn't hurt anything would it?

Thanks a lot!

[QUOTE=moaner][url]www.yousendit.com[/url] the pdf please

thanks[/QUOTE]

dont know how to use that yousendit.com... cause i dont have a recipients email.. im guess thats u right...

ive left my email on my previous message, if u send me an email, ill reply with the pdf .. probably an easier way.

steve ;)

set the recipient as you, and then post the link it gives you.

[QUOTE=peaveyrules]An older fellow we know is basically giving us his bands old back up speakers, which is really nice of him. So by our next gig, we will have two Peavey 2x15 sun-wedge cabs and one monitor. Our band plays in gyms and small venues, including house partys and such. Our amps don't really need to be mic'd, they seem to keep up just fine, however our drummer is a HEAVY hitter.Prior to this...we were always getting complaints of the vocals not being heard over the drums, and I'm getting sick of it, despite what we tell the drummer. Now, my questions.

(1) To run those speakers, we would only need to purchase a small mixer and a power amp correct?(with suitable power handlings for the speakers of course)

(2) Would running 1 monitor and those Peavey cabs be loud enough for vocals to be clearly heard, while keeping up with the drums?

What kinda power amp/mixer would you suggest to power a vocalist? Any recommendations? Preferably pretty cheap....

(3) My friend has aquired a SWR bass head...without a cabinet however. The guy we know recommended running the bass head through the low gain of the other one of our 15 inch monitors. This wouldn't hurt anything would it?

Thanks a lot![/QUOTE]

I'd suggest getting a powered mixer for your vocals (with as many watts as you can afford) and then a cheap poweramp of ebay (only 2x100w or so) to power your stage monitors.

in the future, you probably will want to mic your amps. its a bloody good idea anyway,and if you like i'll draw you a digram why.

[QUOTE=moaner]set the recipient as you, and then post the link it gives you.[/QUOTE]

thanks for that moaner.. cool thing to be able to do.. never used it before

anyways here is the link to the pdf file.
basically helps out with amp/powered mixer and speaker match up.. only 2 pages, and last page has summary on choosing the amp. Basically better to get an amp bit more powerful than what the speakers can take.

[url]http://s32.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=2UVZJ451E2R3R3RHQDKA8QJPGD[/url]

hope it helps some of u guys,
cheers,
steve

I know this has been asked a thousand times before but here goes
My band will need to be getting a PA soon and well, ive got no idea what so ever as to what is a good size, brand ect.

Probably willing to play around $1500 aus, thats $1,152.63 us dollers for something to run the drums, vocal(s), guitar and bass through mic'd.
thanks.

noone help me?

^ Check out the brand Ashton.
They are an Australian company so they should be easilly available to you. And they may have some packaged setups which are suitable for you.

Either that, or head into a local music store and check out a Behringer, Yamaha or Peavey packaged system.

thanks man, so im probably looking at a 400w powerd mixer or something? that'd be plenty ay?

2x400 watts should be enough. But it depends what for.
With that you'll probably be right for 'noisy pub' sized gigs.

thanks. one more question tho, when adding foldbacks, do they effect the overall volume of the pa?

Foldbacks are for the beneifit of those on stage. So they can hear themselves and each other. So the guitarist who is standing over one side of the stage can hear the bassist who is standing over the other side.

The main speakers (FOH) project your sound out to your audience. The foldback monitors project the sound back towards you.
Often you can get away with playign gigs without monitors. But it does depend alot on the size of the gig.

yeh i knew that, let me rephrase it. Will foldbacks reduce the overall volume of comming from the main speakers as the foldbacks are taking power away from the power amp? /me hopes that makes sense

Right. I follow you now.

If you use one of those powered mixers that you can split to run both main speakers and monitors off of, then yes.
It will affect the overall loudness of the main outputs. You'll only have half the amount of headroom that you would otherwise.

The best thing to do is to have your own seperate monitoring setup. Run your Main PA as it is. And run the monitors off thier own dedicated and seperate poweramp / or use powered speakers for the monitors.

ok, thanks man

Are the Behringer Europower mixers any good? I've noticed these are alot less expensive than Mackie and other brands and I was wondering if the quality takes a big hit with the lower price.

Right now I have a very bottom end powered mixer and I'm going to need more channels soon, so I was looking at a mixer to submix with and then use in a mixer/poweramp configuration later on.

The ones I am looking at are this:

[url]http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=live/s=mixers/search/detail/base_pid/631230/[/url]

or possibly splurging on this:

[url]http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=live/s=mixers/search/detail/base_pid/631247/[/url]