[QUOTE=cbmartinez]You smoke crack Justin.

And to the illegal immigrant protest: If your an illegal immigrant, you have no rights. You can't really protest about your non-exsistant rights.[/QUOTE]If you don't live around a large demographic of illegal immigrants you really don't have any source of experience to form an opinion like that. These people work harder than any of us and I'm sure they've worked harder than any of our parents have on public and private projects that they really gain no benifit from aside from the fact they they're getting paid maybe $3.50 an hour in cash.

Have a little compassion. I shouldn't have that much of an advangtage in life just because I was born in America.

I'd get into this debate but I can't type pages and pages...

I'm liberal.

Usually, the debate boils down to:
omfg imigrants r 73h sux
omfg no imigrants r0x

I say come here legally. If not, we'll deal with it and give you certain, but not all rights. By "certain but not all," I mean some rights are clearly extended to everyone, such as life, liberty, persuit of happiness, freedom, etc. The rights to vote, etc., are NOT extended since they can't vote anyway.

-Gav

[QUOTE=cbmartinez]And to the illegal immigrant protest: If your an illegal immigrant, you have no rights. You can't really protest about your non-exsistant rights.[/QUOTE]
That's sort of what I was trying to explain, I just suck at wording things. :/

Immigrants come here to try to better their lives...they have no intention of draining the economy (which they aren't, they're doing quite the opposite) and stealing jobs (don't blame them...companies are giving them the jobs, amirite? Blame McDonald's, K-Mart, etc. if you want a scape goat).

But I reeeally don't want a political debate here. I'm way too lazy. :lol:

-Gav

I don't see anything wrong with them.

[QUOTE=I0Play0Bass]I'd get into this debate but I can't type pages and pages...

I'm liberal.

Usually, the debate boils down to:
omfg imigrants r 73h sux
omfg no imigrants r0x

I say come here legally. If not, we'll deal with it and give you certain, but not all rights. By "certain but not all," I mean some rights are clearly extended to everyone, such as life, liberty, persuit of happiness, freedom, etc. The rights to vote, etc., are NOT extended since they can't vote anyway.

-Gav[/QUOTE]
True, we will give them rights everyone should have, but not the awesome rights we Americans get such as the right to complain constantly, plot to overthrow the government, and break the law and stay in the country.

^ :lol:

Like I mean...obviously they have rights as human beings. A piece of paper saying "You're a citizen of the nation of XYZ" doesn't make your life worth more than someone who doesn't have that. That paper, to me, only gives you certain rights like voting, etc.

-Gav

You are damn right. Besides I have it from good sources that immigrants not only love our rights but they are absolutely love our various delicious snack foods.

America "Land of the Twinkie"

[QUOTE=faith and fiction]If you don't live around a large demographic of illegal immigrants you really don't have any source of experience to form an opinion like that. These people work harder than any of us and I'm sure they've worked harder than any of our parents have on public and private projects that they really gain no benifit from aside from the fact they they're getting paid maybe $3.50 an hour in cash.

Have a little compassion. I shouldn't have that much of an advangtage in life just because I was born in America.[/QUOTE]

No, I agree completely. I live right near Trenton and Camden (Princeton actually also has a large Guatemalan section) where there is a large immigrant workforce and I know that immigrants, particulary illegals, work harder than any other group in the workforce and that they're just trying to build a better life. And I couldn't tell an illegal from a legal if it came down to it so I don't really have a problem with them working. But when you start complaining and demanding the rights of citizens of a country that you don't legally belong too, I don't think nothing can be done. I know there's something to be said for human rights efforts and I actually spent a week in Nogales, Mexico, a border city two summers ago so I probably know more about it than most of you. And I support a number of organizations down there, particulary Borderlinks and the No More Deaths campaign, which work to set up water stations and provide medical care in the desert so people don't die when they are forced to travel through the desert to get into this country. But this isn't about people dying. This is about people who snuck into this country illegally and are now demanding the rights of a country that they don't belong too.

^Truth

The tour is Ignite (CD release), Blacklisted, Set Your Goals. This is going to be amazing. If it doesn't hit NJ odds are I'll be going into Philly.

"The tour is..."

Uhh okay Reiner...Who you be talkin to silly?!

Weird tour.

Haha Sorry, copy and pasted it off of Blacklisted posting it on B9.

Ether way it's two of the best current bands.

Well, I wouldn't exactly call SYG one of the best current bands...


























lol

Hahahah you fag.

[QUOTE=cbmartinez]No, I agree completely. I live right near Trenton and Camden (Princeton actually also has a large Guatemalan section) where there is a large immigrant workforce and I know that immigrants, particulary illegals, work harder than any other group in the workforce and that they're just trying to build a better life. And I couldn't tell an illegal from a legal if it came down to it so I don't really have a problem with them working. But when you start complaining and demanding the rights of citizens of a country that you don't legally belong too, I don't think nothing can be done. I know there's something to be said for human rights efforts and I actually spent a week in Nogales, Mexico, a border city two summers ago so I probably know more about it than most of you. And I support a number of organizations down there, particulary Borderlinks and the No More Deaths campaign, which work to set up water stations and provide medical care in the desert so people don't die when they are forced to travel through the desert to get into this country. But this isn't about people dying. This is about people who snuck into this country illegally and are now demanding the rights of a country that they don't belong too.[/QUOTE]This isn't about people demanding rights here as much as it is the Bush administration doing all they can to convince Americans that there is a serious threat with our open borders. Theyre doing all they can to uphold their scare tactics and they're doing pretty well considering this bill actually has a majority backing it.

Like it was said before, these people have been here forever doing the same thing and we've all lived our lives fine.

It's so funny how psuedo-redneck kids in my school are freaking out and actually saying things like "They took our jobs" when I'm pretty d'amn sure they're houses were built by illegals, half of them have probably had housework done by illegals, and their parents probably run construction firms where they hire illegals.

Basically in the past few years of my life I've come to hate the majority of people in this country. I may not be the most intelligent or up to date person on politics and whatnot. But I do know that it's not hard to care about the wellbeing of other human beings around me, whether they were born in the same hospital as me or paid a grand to get a ride over here.

dey-terk-er-jerbs

But seriously, Shane's right. If we were really concerned about immigration, which there is no question legit reasons why we should be, the approach we're taking right now is definitely not the best.

Semi-intelligent debate in these forums? A small corner in hell has just frozen over.....

Anyways, if you're illegal, you have no rights. The end. My ancestors came here legally, they can too.

[QUOTE=Route 1]Semi-intelligent debate in these forums? A small corner in hell has just frozen over......[/QUOTE]

:rolleyes:

[QUOTE=Route 1]My ancestors came here legally, they can too.[/QUOTE]

This is just stupid. I don't know if you realize but the process is a little different nowadays.

[QUOTE=REINER]The tour is Ignite (CD release), Blacklisted, Set Your Goals. This is going to be amazing. If it doesn't hit NJ odds are I'll be going into Philly.[/QUOTE]
What time area would this tour be held? I'm going to be around the northern states from June to July, and I'm a fan of all three bands. 'Specially SYG and Ignite(currently).

wtf, why are we having serious discussions in here?

we need to fix the situation, but guest workers or walls is not hte answer, those are two extremes, we just have to fix the immigration process to make it easier for people to come in, it will benefit our economy and their lives.

[QUOTE=40 oz 2 freedom]:rolleyes:



This is just stupid. I don't know if you realize but the process is a little different nowadays.[/QUOTE]
It's not [I]that[/I] different. We can't just passively let aliens into our country and look the other way.

[QUOTE=Route 1]It's not [I]that[/I] different.[/QUOTE]

:confused:

[QUOTE=Route 1]We can't just passively let aliens into our country and look the other way.[/QUOTE]

You, along with a few others that have posted, seem to think that before these new laws we just had free borders with no immigration control whatsoever.

[QUOTE=40 oz 2 freedom]:confused:



You, along with a few others that have posted, seem to think that before these new laws we just had free borders with no immigration control whatsoever.[/QUOTE]
Of course I know we had laws in place before. But, it seems like the current administration is turning a blind eye to some illegals. The new "guest worker" thing is just a slap in the face. "Oh yeah, you can coem to our country illegally, you just have to bust your back all day in exchange!" That's so cheap.

Late reply, but...
[QUOTE=TakeWarning]Pretty good.

How's things in Sydney?[/QUOTE]
I live in Melbourne.
Anyway, I'm doing really well thanks.
[QUOTE=Route 1]If you're illegal, you have no rights.[/QUOTE]
I agree to an extent, but to completely rob them of [I]all[/I] their rights isn't the way to go.

[QUOTE=Route 1]It's not [I]that[/I] different. We can't just passively let aliens into our country and look the other way.[/QUOTE]
It is very very difficult to come here legally. It takes years. I have relatives who wanted t come here legally but they couldn't because of all the restrictions. Luckily they don't have it as bad as most people in Mexico.

[QUOTE=Malice]Late reply, but...

I live in Melbourne.
Anyway, I'm doing really well thanks.

I agree to an extent, but to completely rob them of [I]all[/I] their rights isn't the way to go.[/QUOTE]
I'm not saying take away their [I]human[/I] rights, because everyone should have their natural rights. I'm saying that if they are illegal, the rights the constitution gives us should not apply to them.

[QUOTE=Route 1]Of course I know we had laws in place before. But, it seems like the current administration is turning a blind eye to some illegals. The new "guest worker" thing is just a slap in the face. "Oh yeah, you can coem to our country illegally, you just have to bust your back all day in exchange!" That's so cheap.[/QUOTE]Except that's what they're here to do and it's what they do when they come over. People aren't immigrating to sit around and enjoy the environment. They come, they work, they send money home, rinse and repeat.

[QUOTE=Route 1]I'm not saying take away their [I]human[/I] rights, because everyone should have their natural rights. I'm saying that if they are illegal, the rights the constitution gives us should not apply to them.[/QUOTE]So they don't have a right to pursuit of happiness?

[QUOTE=faith and fiction]Except that's what they're here to do and it's what they do when they come over. People aren't immigrating to sit around and enjoy the environment. They come, they work, they send money home, rinse and repeat.[/QUOTE]
Illegally.




The real problem lies in Mexico. They have to clean their act up so their own people don't have to flee their country.