FOH = Front Of House = the big speakers up the front of the stage, that point out towards the audience.
I'd reccomend reading through the rest of this thread to find out other terminology.

Moaner, say it was a 2x400 watt powered mixer. Two channels, both a left and a right, each with an output of 400 watts.
While split for monitoring, its like using what was the left channel for the FOH and what was the right channel for the monitors. So it'll be a dual mono output.

how many watts powered mixer do u reckon you need for a 3 piece punk band for the singer theres like bass, guitar and drums so its quite loud???

[QUOTE=10571z]how many watts powered mixer do u reckon you need for a 3 piece punk band for the singer theres like bass, guitar and drums so its quite loud???[/QUOTE]
it depends what you'll be doing. if it's just for messing around in your garage, not that much. if it's for playing a show in front of 500 people, obviously you'll need a little more. It also depends on how powerful the guitar and bass amps are. can you specify a bit more?

[QUOTE=himynameistweek]it depends what you'll be doing. if it's just for messing around in your garage, not that much. if it's for playing a show in front of 500 people, obviously you'll need a little more. It also depends on how powerful the guitar and bass amps are. can you specify a bit more?[/QUOTE]

except for very small gigs, you should always try to have guitar and bass going into the PA. mid size gigs, drums too i'm afraid.

[QUOTE=Aes820]FOH = Front Of House = the big speakers up the front of the stage, that point out towards the audience.
I'd reccomend reading through the rest of this thread to find out other terminology.

Moaner, say it was a 2x400 watt powered mixer. Two channels, both a left and a right, each with an output of 400 watts.
While split for monitoring, its like using what was the left channel for the FOH and what was the right channel for the monitors. So it'll be a dual mono output.[/QUOTE]

ah, right. so it has some limitations.

you could do that on any powered mixer really, if you watched your ohms, couldn't you?

[QUOTE=moaner]you could do that on any powered mixer really, if you watched your ohms, couldn't you?[/QUOTE]
An advantage of being able to split it is so that you can control the volume levels between the FOH and the monitors independantly.

[QUOTE=Aes820]An advantage of being able to split it is so that you can control the volume levels between the FOH and the monitors independantly.[/QUOTE]

ah, thats true,

do most powered mixers not have a master pan?

hey aes quick question... my band is looking to invest in a new pa system , just want to know what one would be better for the money, and big enough.. [url]http://www.music123.com/SoundTech-S20-i131742.music[/url] that or.. [url]http://www.music123.com/Kustom-KPA7212-7-Channel-PA-System-i106475.music[/url]

Out of those two, definately go for the Kustom.

The Soundtech one is rated at 160 watts [B]peak[/B]. Which you really have take with a grain of salt.
Be very careful when looking at amp brands that rate their power output in Peak. As this is no real representation as to how loud the amplifier actually is.
What you would want to take note of is RMS power output. Ignore peak power output, as a 160 watt peak amp may only have an RMS output of 50 watts or so.

The Kustom however has an RMS output of 200 watts. It will be a much more powerful and versatile setup.
This PA would be suitable for practising and some house party sized gigs, but may not be suitable for anything larger.
But, the price seems failry reasonable.

I have a few questions and I cant find the search bar anymore so I apolagize if these have been asked before.

First up, my powered mixer has 6 channels, 5 of which have mic inputs. This is fine for right now. However later we will need more channels for more instruments and more drum mics. Chances are we wont need more power right away, and what I really want to do is start building up a serious PA with seperate mixer and amp components for monitors, mains, etc.

Would the most sensible method right now be to buy another mixer and then run it into one of the channels of the powered mixer? Is there anything wrong with doing this? What I would do is get a decent sized 16 channel+ mixer and run it through one of the powered mixers channels till I got the seperate power amps.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The mics i have right now are pretty cheap and I believe microphonics (I believe thats what you call it) is causing the mics to squeal and feedback when i turn the mic channels volume passed half way. I cant get to use all of my PA's power because I cant amplify the signal enough before this starts to happen. Would an outboard mic preamp unit boost the line signal to be amplified? Also, would a seperate mixer such as one I was talking about getting in my first question have a mic preamp built in?

Also can I have some info about mic preamps? Is this what they are intended to be used for or are they mainly just for tone shaping? Thanks.

Yes. You can run the outputs of one mixer into the inputs of a powered mixer. it is quite fine to do so.
However, because of the larger number of ways in which you can set things, you'll have more places where things can go wrong, and you'll probably even be more prone to feedback. So you'll have to be extra careful with how you set your gain structure.
If you use a bit of care, you should be fine however.

If the cause of your second problem is infact microphonics, then some higher quality microphones will be a good option.
If it is infact just old fashioned feedback, then just position the PA speakers further away from the mics.

What about mic preamps, would this help boost the pre amplified mic signal? When I run a CD player through the tape-ins, the PA can play at loud volumes easily, and the mic cannot be heard over it.

Is the signal being sent strait into the mixer too low?

[QUOTE=Manimal]What about mic preamps, would this help boost the pre amplified mic signal? When I run a CD player through the tape-ins, the PA can play at loud volumes easily, and the mic cannot be heard over it.

Is the signal being sent strait into the mixer too low?[/QUOTE]

I doubt it.

As long as you're plugging a mic into a mic input, the level should be fine. go through checking your gain and "volume" levels, as well as your master level, to see where you might be going wrong. Remember that some tape ins bypass all volume controls, so you need to check the level on the CD player itself.

A mic pre-amp converts a mic level signal to a line level signal, and is not really the solution to your problem. Unless the mic pre-amps built into your mixer are too weak, which is very unlikely.

It doesnt bypass the main volume control.

Since a mic pre-amp turns the signal into a line level, wouldnt the mic pre-amp then be able to boost the signal to be amplified by the powered mixer without worrying about the screechy noises and turning the powered mixers levels up to the point where the screeching noises accure?

Hey, a bit out of place with the pre-amp deal going on, but can you guys give me an opinion on this? I've been doing a lot of research and I think it's definitely a worthy purchase, but if any of you have experience/knowledge about these PA's, do tell.

[url]http://www.carvin.com/products/single.php?ItemNumber=P620-1230&CID=SYS1[/url]

This is a noob question:

If you buy a powered mixer, do you need a PA head to drive the speakers still?

[QUOTE=Manimal]Since a mic pre-amp turns the signal into a line level, wouldnt the mic pre-amp then be able to boost the signal to be amplified by the powered mixer without worrying about the screechy noises and turning the powered mixers levels up to the point where the screeching noises accure?[/QUOTE]
A mic preamp boost a mic signal up to a line level signal using gain. The more gain there is then the more sensitive the input of the mic will be, too much gain and you will experience feedback.
If you daisy chain one mic preamp into another mic preamp then you'll have an ability to dial in greater amounts of gain, and therfore you will increase the risk of feedback.
Similarly, if you use large amounts of gain in either of the preamps, then you will experience clipping as the signal peaks over the maximum input headroom of the preamp section. And you'll get unwanted distortion. This sounds bad.

robman304: That looks fine to me.

H to the ickle: A powered mixer is a mixer which contains a built in poweramp. All you'll need in conjuction with this will be the actual speakers.

Many thanks.

thanks aes...you are the man as usual :thumb:

What do I need for microphone sound? I'm totally new to this stuff. Do I need an amp? A monitor? A PA? All these terms confuse me. I know what they are basically, but I don't know which is used for what. I know amps are used for guitar & bass, but are they for microphones as well? Are monitors just so the singer can hear himself? Is a PA used for the microphone so the audience can hear?

Basically this is just for a garage band type setup, but hopefully one day I'd want to use it on stage. So which do I need?

These are the microphone and stand I'm buying:

[url]http://www.americanmusical.com/item--i-SHU-SM58SLC.html[/url]
[url]http://www.americanmusical.com/item--i-MUS-MS7201B.html[/url]

For a garage type band setup (with the prospect of gigging in the near future). All you may need is a 2x300 watt powered mixer, with speakers. Something from the brands, Yamaha, Behringer or Peavey are usually safe bets.
Look around for 'packaged PA setups'.
And read through this thread for more suggestions and information regarding questions you may have.
Most of the questions you have asked, have been answered before.

hows this setup? will be used for giging vocals and maybe micing guiar amps for some extra wattage and drums posibly
Eurorack UB1202 Mixer
[url]http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=live/s=mixers/search/detail/base_pid/631236/[/url]

XP-350 Stereo Power Amp
[url]http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=live/search/detail/base_id/118900[/url]

[url]http://www.greatstuffsalesco.com/detail.aspx?ID=2559[/url]


one more thing, how dp you hok the power amp to the mixer?

Well, the mixer will work with the poweramp, but the speakers are unsuitable.
You'll need something more suited to your needs. Something with at least a 12" driver and a flared HF driver.
Oth than that, check the user reviews on that poweramp. It doesn't seem to be very popular.
The Mixer will do the job, but perhaps check out some other brands of poweramps. And you'll need proper PA speaker bins too.

Sometimes it is simpler to just buy a packaged PA setup. They usually contain a powered mixer, a couple of speakers and perhaps even a mic or two.
These may be alot more suitable for your use and you wont have to worry about how exactally they all hook up together.

EDIT: Sorry mate, I just read that thread you also made in the guitar forum about this. Shop around definately, sometimes you can find packaged setups that are cheaper than individual componets.
I think on the first or second page of this thread there is a few links to some cheaper setups. But see how you go.
If you've got links to any other products which you'll need help with or opinions on, just post them here and I'll let you know what I think.

Alright specialists on here tell me what you think of my setup (I just ordered it tonight so if it sucks I guess I will have to deal with it for now but it sure as hell beats nothing):

Behringer PMH2000 Europower Powered Mixer
[url]http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=live/search/detail/base_pid/631240/[/url]

Yamaha BR12 12" 2-Way Speaker Cabinet (only one)
[url]http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=rec/search/detail/base_pid/601212/[/url]

Shure SM58 Mic
[url]http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=live/search/detail/base_pid/270101/[/url]

Behringer Tube Ultragain MIC200 Mic Preamp
[url]http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=live/search/detail/base_pid/182491/[/url]

Skimpy on the speakers, I know, but I didn't have money for what I really wanted:

B-52 LX-1515 Dual 15" 2-Way 800W 4-Ohm PA Speaker
[url]http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=live/s=mixers/search/detail/base_pid/602059/[/url]

...even though I doubt the mixer I got could power it.
Anyway, what do you think?

[QUOTE=the_only_singer]Alright specialists on here tell me what you think of my setup (I just ordered it tonight so if it sucks I guess I will have to deal with it for now but it sure as hell beats nothing):

Behringer PMH2000 Europower Powered Mixer
[url]http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=live/search/detail/base_pid/631240/[/url]

Yamaha BR12 12" 2-Way Speaker Cabinet (only one)
[url]http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=rec/search/detail/base_pid/601212/[/url]

Shure SM58 Mic
[url]http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=live/search/detail/base_pid/270101/[/url]

Behringer Tube Ultragain MIC200 Mic Preamp
[url]http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=live/search/detail/base_pid/182491/[/url]

Skimpy on the speakers, I know, but I didn't have money for what I really wanted:

B-52 LX-1515 Dual 15" 2-Way 800W 4-Ohm PA Speaker
[url]http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=live/s=mixers/search/detail/base_pid/602059/[/url]

...even though I doubt the mixer I got could power it.
Anyway, what do you think?[/QUOTE]

The mixer and speaker pair up pretty well.
You definitely don't want to buy the B-52 bins using that mixer. You will totally under power them and you can't run one in bridged mode, as the impedance is not matched. I take it you are just using it for rehearsals and such?
You should be content with it......for awhile, lol

[QUOTE=Aes820]Well, the mixer will work with the poweramp, but the speakers are unsuitable.
You'll need something more suited to your needs. Something with at least a 12" driver and a flared HF driver.
Oth than that, check the user reviews on that poweramp. It doesn't seem to be very popular.
The Mixer will do the job, but perhaps check out some other brands of poweramps. And you'll need proper PA speaker bins too.

Sometimes it is simpler to just buy a packaged PA setup. They usually contain a powered mixer, a couple of speakers and perhaps even a mic or two.
These may be alot more suitable for your use and you wont have to worry about how exactally they all hook up together.

EDIT: Sorry mate, I just read that thread you also made in the guitar forum about this. Shop around definately, sometimes you can find packaged setups that are cheaper than individual componets.
I think on the first or second page of this thread there is a few links to some cheaper setups. But see how you go.
If you've got links to any other products which you'll need help with or opinions on, just post them here and I'll let you know what I think.[/QUOTE]


thanks alot!

how are these speakers?
[url]http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=47094&item=7305299632&rd=1[/url]

[QUOTE=redrumsixsix6]how are these speakers?
[url]http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=47094&item=7305299632&rd=1[/url][/QUOTE]

I'd stick with the Yamaha or check out some Yorkville stuff
[url]http://www.yorkville.com/products.asp?type=29&cat=2&id=211[/url]

They have some great gear at a decent price.

[QUOTE=redrumsixsix6]how are these speakers?
[url]http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=47094&item=7305299632&rd=1[/url][/QUOTE]

the frequency response isn't great, but they'd do you fine for a low level setup or for some monitoring.

[QUOTE=moaner]the frequency response isn't great, but they'd do you fine for a low level setup or for some monitoring.[/QUOTE]


o.......... well we need them for live stuff so i guess i gotta look for something else.

what speakers would i need fr live stuff 4 vocals and maybe micin the guitar amps 4 extra volume?