[QUOTE=btoto]Merkaba-1,

ha ha........I have some good news for you: I can already make some rasp. thanks to you of course ! :thumb:
But I can sing raspy only when I sing at a low voice. I mean, if I want to sing loudly, I'll get no rasp. And it is sad :upset: Probably, it's just a matter of time.

Also, one more question: Right now I'm 19. And I started singing when I was 18. A year ago. And I have never sang before that in my life. Is it where the problems come from? Maybe because I started singing too late. Or you think that's OK?

Thanks again, :wave:[/QUOTE]

well im willing to bet that you just havent got full control and seperation of the throat muscles from the vocal muscles. its easier to do at lower tones because the cords are thicker, stronger. so they can take more push. just keep practicing, relaxing. and dont forget you dont have to push much harder just because youre going up in range. and make sure youre pushing from your gut, not your throat. if it feels like youre pushing from your throat then that is the pressure that comes from having a closed throat due to the tension of pushing without enough support from the gut. it should be like an accordian, it is so important and i realize that i havent put enough stress on it, but its just hard to put into words. but concentrate on that too unless you know for a fact that you are supporting with your diaphragm.

So to help build rasp range, go to your highest rasp note. and go up to the next one and try. try it with a guitar note by note. it helps to work in semitones when youre trying something like this. it makes the muscles increments smaller which gives you more feel and control. But congratulations. you'll keep moving up, watch. just warm up, stay relaxed, dont overpush, but push from the gut, and warm down. and dont forget that near the end of your workout you should do some hard singing to build strength. just stay the same technique wise. and if you ever feel pain or if your speaking voice is affected then you know youre doing it wrong.

And your other question, i didnt start singing seriously until about 20, super seriously at about24. Im 28 now. so by being so young and really working you have an advantage because youre just more recuperative at a younger age. If youre serious, just watch other things too, most importantly your nutrition and exercise, and things like drinking and smoking. you wont have anything to worry about if you do what you know youre supposed to do and take care of your voice. and theres more than enough stuff on this forum and will be that will help you do that. remember that pain= damage. so keep on keepin on dude! :thumb:

Merkaba - 1,

Probably you are right. I can't control vocal and throat muscles independently. But about that gut thing, I can't really imagine how can you sing from gut. It's like singing from stomach. I can't imagine it :) No Joke ! When I tried to sing from gut as you said, I nearly coughed up all I ate for lunch :) maybe I'm doing smth wrong.

Singing along guitar is actually a good idea. I tried it, and it kind of helped a bit. Although still can't rasp loudly. I know....I need patience. :)

Then it's not late for me if you say you started at 20. But I don't really watch my nutrition. Yes, I don't smoke and don't drink (except for good red wine once a month). But I eat all I want :)

Yeah, there is already enough stuff on these forums about singing. And your sticky thread is a great idea. well done man ! :)

[QUOTE=btoto]Merkaba - 1,

Probably you are right. I can't control vocal and throat muscles independently. But about that gut thing, I can't really imagine how can you sing from gut. It's like singing from stomach. I can't imagine it :) No Joke ! When I tried to sing from gut as you said, I nearly coughed up all I ate for lunch :) maybe I'm doing smth wrong.

Singing along guitar is actually a good idea. I tried it, and it kind of helped a bit. Although still can't rasp loudly. I know....I need patience. :)

Then it's not late for me if you say you started at 20. But I don't really watch my nutrition. Yes, I don't smoke and don't drink (except for good red wine once a month). But I eat all I want :)

Yeah, there is already enough stuff on these forums about singing. And your sticky thread is a great idea. well done man ! :)[/QUOTE]

just take a deep breath, so your stomach bellows out, exhale saying ahh, when youre exhaling the support and push for the exhale should be coming from you drawing your belly button in and up to get the push, and your abs shouldnt contract much. if your abs are contracting hard when you push hard, youre probably gonna be pushing from the throat. a no no.

look online for some techniques to help you get the feel. i'll try to do the same if i have time. its hard for me to describe.

And hell, if you dont watch your nutrition its not like you have to be perfect. its just something to keep in mind. But i must say that after a day and a half fast, and starting back up with fruit. my voice is superb. Everything affects everything. but hell, im a sweet freak, which isnt good either. im probably gonna go get some Krispy Kreme doughnuts tonight. i live like 2 minutes from the actual shop where they make them fresh. a fresh krispy kreme dougnut is almost like cocaine. its just like you bite into it and you say this cannot be good for me. by the time you realize what youre thinking you've finished it and youre halfway through the third one! anyways, i digress....

sing like jim morrison
 

how the **** does jim morrison to scream like that?...alcohol?

unfortunately i dont have an immediate recall of the sound. got a link?

but its all technique. I'd like to see if i can try his. But hey, some people do just have more capacity than others. we cant all do what others do, but we dont know until we try properly, we might even be able to surpass our favorites. you never know

[QUOTE=Merkaba-1]just take a deep breath, so your stomach bellows out, exhale saying ahh, when youre exhaling the support and push for the exhale should be coming from you drawing your belly button in and up to get the push, and your abs shouldnt contract much. if your abs are contracting hard when you push hard, youre probably gonna be pushing from the throat. a no no.

look online for some techniques to help you get the feel. i'll try to do the same if i have time. its hard for me to describe.

And hell, if you dont watch your nutrition its not like you have to be perfect. its just something to keep in mind. But i must say that after a day and a half fast, and starting back up with fruit. my voice is superb. Everything affects everything. but hell, im a sweet freak, which isnt good either. im probably gonna go get some Krispy Kreme doughnuts tonight. i live like 2 minutes from the actual shop where they make them fresh. a fresh krispy kreme dougnut is almost like cocaine. its just like you bite into it and you say this cannot be good for me. by the time you realize what youre thinking you've finished it and youre halfway through the third one! anyways, i digress....[/QUOTE]


Well actually it's really hard to describe........so I won't understand it the way you want :thumb: Nevertheless, I thing I got the idea. Still, I sometimes push from throat. It's really hard to avoid it. It happens independently. But what the hell? I will overcome it :thumb:

It's the same with me with the food I like. Although I don't like doughnuts, I eat lots of sweets. But I don't think it can somehow affect my voice. The only thing I hate about sweets is when next morning you see whole your face covered with disgusting red things :D

Thanks for all man. I think there is already enough stuff on these forums to read. But I'll always know that I can ask Merkaba-1 if I have anything wrong with my voice :wave:

youre welcome. but yes, sweets do actually affect your voice. its not something you might particular notice right up front. but simple sugars tax the bodies hyrdration efforts. so again youre talking about mucous.... and stamina

And yea, i think i remember seeing a new member thats been singing for like 20 years. shes in here somewhere, im sure she can help too.

I need some critiquing of my screams...

I can do (as I understand it) death metal screams and spaz metal (converge, Black Dahlia Murder) type screams, but I need an honest opinion on how they sound!

I've made these songs as inside jokes for my friends, but those are my actual screams...

[url]http://www.hxcmp3.com/bands/12455/[/url]

Listen to:

Theme for Mike Goughan (goofy with death and spaz, Zao song)
Good Jalepenos/Mike's Theme Part 2 (death and spaz vox, Cryptopsy song)
Theme for Tony (death vox, Decapitated song)
Zachary's Theme (really goofy with death and spaz vox, tunes by Cryptopsy)
Theme for Kyle Farley (death and spaz vox, Funeral for a Friend song)
Theme for Baron Van Haas (death vox, Decapitated Song)

Please give me an up front, honest judgement of how my screams sound (if they sound like they're "supposed to", etc.)...and yes, I did sing over other bands' stuff.

cold beef! cold beef!....
hamburgerrrrrrrr

awesome! that little snippet, i dont know why, but i love it. i swear! i think its the rhythm or something. lol

well, sounds good. I'd say youre still closing up your throat a bit on a few notes i heard. just try to relax the throat even when youre portraying facial emotion(takes considerble practice for many of us). the low screams, its so hard to coach. I mean, all i can say is make sure you drop your jaw a bit and bring the push from your gut. with low stuff, you can get into whats called vocal fry, which is when the rasp comes from the cords just flapping. that you dont wont. but i must say that i do believe you still should be able to make it more than thirty minutes before feeling too fatigued. make sure youre getting good balance with the other instruments without having to push more than is necessary for the desired tone. other than that you sound good for the low scream technique which is not really my cup of tea. warm up though, and warm down!

Hey Dwarf,
I gotta say that's probably some of the best screaming I've seen posted on here (so far) but I'm pretty new to the forums. You're growls are great. Only thing I could possibly suggest is that you may want to try reaching down a little deeper into your diaphragm when you do them. Should give you a bit of a lower tone and fill it out just a bit more. As for the screaming good stuff as well but not quite as strong as the growls. They sounded a little thin but that generally seems to be the problem and you're probably not physically at fault for it. Maybe try changing your mic position. I think you may benefit from keeping it closer to your mouth to bring in (again) that deeper tone. Also, and this I'm sure will help the most, put your channel gain up as much as you can afford w/out feedback and w/out making the distortion too apparent. You just want enough to fill it out and still sound (fairly) human. you could also try throwing on some little amount of delay. Experiment. Otherwise you'll never know. Good Luck :evil: !

P.S. I have to commend Merkaba-1 for all his advice. definitely the most informed person I've seen on the threads so far. Keep it up. I'm sure I speak for everyone when I say that your assistance is greatly appreciated. :thumb:

Ive got some questions. I was a choir student for 7 years so know a lot about different singing techniques. I took lots of voice lessons and stuff like that. Would you say that I need to go back and get "professional help". Its been about three years since my last choir competition. Im looking for a sound like Nate Barslow from finch. I think he has a melodic but rough scream and I love it. SO any tips on how to attain that would be gretly appeciated.

I'm working on my grind scream/growl.

As best as I can understand, it's not really about projection but about getting as close to sounding like the spawn of Satan as possible (see: Lord Worm).

Any tips for grind/grindcore vocals? I'll post my results as soon as I get em recorded.

well that depends on what your career/longevity goals are!

i would agree with children of lilith. play around with your mic. you usually want your output level to be 7 or 8, or around 80%,(depending on the system) with as much gain as you can can before you get feedback and distortion. you have an acoustic instrument. a little reverb is always good. if youre running through a mixer, keep the mic input hot, around 80%, and adjust the outs, monitor level etc. you want the mic hot as hell with alot of gain going into the mix. keep it hot and adjust the gain, then the outputs.

There is only one way to properly vocalize. an open throat, and bringing it from the gut. go to my sticky titled voice help hotline. no i dont know everything, but i know a bit. and by grindcore you basically mean a lot of rasp, correct? its all the same. you've got rasp. but if youre not concerned with projection your going to probably end up falling into the black hole of over pushing and tension, which is probably why you get fatigued after thirty or so minutes. youre probably already losing it after fifteen, and just compensating until you cant anymore. you cant headline if youre losing it after thirty minutes, with shows five or six times a week! and warm up, stay hydrated, and warm down, thats my signature almost.


But i must say that i was singing cold beef/ hamburger all day at work today!

your vocals are amazing dwarf guy.

my head doesn't hurt anymore after singing :thumb: but this whole singing thing really confuses me. id ask on a diffirent forum about bands liek disgorge and they would say that its gutteral vocals or something like that and tell me to sing from the gut or the diaphram :amaze: :eek: and then theres some specific breathing techniques that you have to do and everything :amaze:

this is a disgorge sample of the site, its not their greatest song but you can hear the vocals pretty clearly
[URL=http://www.deathmetal.com/disgorge/Atonement.mp3]disgorge(usa) - atonoment[/URL]


heres a power metal band from british columbia with interesting sounding vocals. it might be just me but he goes frigin high at times :amaze:
[URL=http://www.omegacrom.com/media/live_tracks/Battlefield.mp3]Omega Crom - Battlefield (live)[/URL]

i think both of those vocal styles sound amazing

yea it can be like golf(dont laugh, i play a bit). the more you think, the more difficult it can be. its all just words to give you an idea of the feel. you dont want to squeeze anything in your throat, you want it open like youre saying ahh for the doctor, or yawning. and you want your breath to be supported by your stomach. thats it. read through my sticky, i've updated it twice in the past three days.

still trying
 

first of all i'd like to thank everyone who has given great advice so far :thumb: . I've been working on my scream for a couple weeks now and I think im doing an O.K. job (especially with all the pointers on this forum). I was just wondering if anyone could give me any advice on how to upgrade my scream to become louder and "fuller". Any advice would great! thanks alot. :D

so screamings fun..... i do it all the time before a show jus to " warm up"

[QUOTE=davidw_9]first of all i'd like to thank everyone who has given great advice so far :thumb: . I've been working on my scream for a couple weeks now and I think im doing an O.K. job (especially with all the pointers on this forum). I was just wondering if anyone could give me any advice on how to upgrade my scream to become louder and "fuller". Any advice would great! thanks alot. :D[/QUOTE]


sorry, only father time. cause that builds experience and strength. you gain more feel for yourself with experience and you figure out what does what for you. plus youre going to have to build more muscle and stronger cords. that just takes time. and you dont want to try to rush it. just take care, and you know how by now, and it will come and keep coming. again, dont think pushing harder will necessarily do it. although if there is no pain, i would up the agression a bit, if you feel your technique can handle it. again, no pain, no affect on your speaking voice. otherwise, keep testing your limits.

I have a problem..i cna scream liek hardcore scream really low..and i can scream like too high..but i can never get it in the middle like story of the year..etc..any tips..?and now practice i realized does make better..before i used to sscream once a couple months but now every other day and its improved..as well as my throat is stronger..haha no raspyness or loss of voice

thanks alot for the advice, ill keep trying my best :chug:

I wanna ask thee unsound about Dez's screaming (ex. Coal Chamber vocalist, now Devildriver's vocal) Take for example Devildriver - The Mountan. I've heard lives and he makes the screamz 100% like it's on the record, so it's like he's screaming from the gut and the other way at the same time... or I hear it kinda like that.

btw about the "chino" way of screaming, I practiced a lot with my falceto voice, but all I can do is scream like a raped monkey... But I can do it other way, less louder, but when I turn up the mic, it sounds pretty good, with my whispering and some of my normal voice (I think I use my diaphragm), but after too much of that my head starts to hurt :)

for some reason when i scream, it doesn't really sound like anything. it's pretty much a whisper, i can't get any tone on it unless there's a microphone. other than that, it's just a distorted whisper, it that the way it's supposed to be?

In response to the last two posts. There is just one way to properly scream. and thats to slightly close the upper throat AFTER the sound has been activated, but professionally you do it at the same time. when you get into mid and high pitched screams, youre either using your cords as usual, for mid range stuff, or youre using falsetto voice, or a mixture of the two. Thats it. if youre trying to scream out of your range, or push too much, then your cords just cant activate and youre gonna get less or no tone. so practice singing the note first. if you cant get it strong and tight, why do you think you will be able to push even more air over it to hit the back of the throat for a scream effect...? you have to be able to sing the note hard, thats all screaming is. but you just open the throat and hit the extra air off your throat. practice singing the notes.

Hey im just 18 now n iv been a big metal fan for about ever. I wanna learn how to scream well. I can do things like godsmack n mudvayne... but i get hoarse after singing like 1 or 2 songs. i dont even know if im doing things right or really where to begin. It would b really cool if somebody could give me a good instruction on a place to start and how to practice to get really good. Also, how to get the indurence. In my band, i really need to know how to switch back and forth between screaming and actually singing. can anybody help?

[QUOTE=MtlGtrRckr]Hey im just 18 now n iv been a big metal fan for about ever. I wanna learn how to scream well. I can do things like godsmack n mudvayne... but i get hoarse after singing like 1 or 2 songs. i dont even know if im doing things right or really where to begin. It would b really cool if somebody could give me a good instruction on a place to start and how to practice to get really good. Also, how to get the indurence. In my band, i really need to know how to switch back and forth between screaming and actually singing. can anybody help?[/QUOTE]
If youre getting hoarse at all, but ESPECIALLY within fifteen minutes, you are doing things WAY wrong and you need to stop now. at least read my replies in the voicehelp hotline sticky, and read around. but for your own sake dude, dont do irreversible damage to your cords by using improper technique.

Hey I've posted a few times but I never get any response. I've got a fairly deep voice, and almost no range, like when I try to go into a falsetto voice it just breaks up and its like I'm pushing air out but no sound comes out. Is it still possible for me to get a good quality scream (ie. Deftones - Around the Fur, Refused - New Noise) with this problem I've got? When I try to scream it sounds just like a loud shout and is very clear but I want it to be distorted..
Any help is greatly appreciated.

[QUOTE=osirisblind]Hey I've posted a few times but I never get any response. I've got a fairly deep voice, and almost no range, like when I try to go into a falsetto voice it just breaks up and its like I'm pushing air out but no sound comes out. Is it still possible for me to get a good quality scream (ie. Deftones - Around the Fur, Refused - New Noise) with this problem I've got? When I try to scream it sounds just like a loud shout and is very clear but I want it to be distorted..
Any help is greatly appreciated.[/QUOTE]

[url]http://www.musicianforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=219911[/url]

hey thanks a ton merkaba. like everyone else says, you deffinitely sound like u know what ur talkin about. its funny, my car is pretty much the only place i really sing (or scream) too. Ur help page is very informative. i appreciate it man. :thumb:

Thanks a lot for all this tips, i will be uploading my screaming shortly for evaluation.. but to compare i just wondered, can someone tell me how Poison The well does their screams? Thanks in advance.

well I haven't posted in a while - moving into college and stuff. Once I get some time and know that I won't scare every single person in the dorms, I'll get some new screams recorded. The grind-core vox hurt a bit still but they sound siiicckkkk.