to find your falsetto take a breath and do EEEEEEEEEEE slowly rising up in pitch till you feel/hear it start to get airy. then work around that area. its important to know where you go to falsetto, everyone is different but it gives you so much more confidence because you'll have fewer breaks and bad notes around that area because you wont be trying to sing falsetto notes with your normal voice and vice versa.
falsetto takes way more air because again, its like a flute. so people Fvck up there voice when they see people screaming and taking deep breaths...so they do the same , but they push their vocal cords...and blow them out or damage there voice. but you have to open your throat to let the air flow and "flute" out. I can do mudvayne and deftones all night with no pain, no hoarseness, no ill effects. not to brag because i'm not a natural singer, i dont think, cause i learned how and practiced everyday....not a few times a week. everyday. it takes practice. if you cant practice and scream alot everyday, then youre singing way to hard and way too incorrectly and you need to keep looking around this board! professionals will tell you the same.

[QUOTE=Teh1337Darklink]Sorry to burst your bubble, but your wrong :(

Your falsetto is that thing at the back of your throat.. hmm indeed it is hard to explain how to use it. you know how you can hit those high notes , the ones that girls can do except you can do it as well but not with alot of power? (refer to the first post, it explains better what im talking about) but you use that when you scream. Although i havent learned how to do that kind of scream, im still working on it. If you want to know how to do screams like slipknot/korn, i can do those, and can probably teach you how.[/QUOTE]ive been tryin to copy the jon davis screem. But he has like 20 different screaming voices. I have trouble changeing pitches like he does(twist). ne help would b appreciated.

how does one do matti way vocals? his vocals completely bamboozle me. if one doesn't know who matti way is he was the vocalist for "Disgorge"(USA, not the mexican one) he sings on the albums "she lay gutted" and "cranial impalement" listen to the beggining of the song "deranged epidemic" . Matti Way also does vocals for the band "Liturgy" and "cinerary", but "cinerary" isn't that great IMO. similiar vocals to matti way's can also be found in the band "brodequin"

after i scream,there is a light pain at the bottom of my throat.Is it normal or am i doing it wrongly?

[QUOTE=pinkboxers]after i scream,there is a light pain at the bottom of my throat.Is it normal or am i doing it wrongly?[/QUOTE]

pain is a reaction the body gives the brain. it is uncomfortable because its trying to make your brain change the action that is causing the pain. its trying to do this because damage is occuring. in your case, probably swelling, and slight tears.

so the answer is, no this is not normal. stop doing it. if you are screaming incorrectly youre pushing too hard for your current level. but im guessing youre doing it incorrectly. so change something up bud. I know how much i love singing and i'd hate for you to hurt your voice. how long have you been singing? and how long have you been screaming? and how old are you?

hmmm when i do screaming my throat doesn't really hurt at all ive been trying it for around 2 weeks now and it used to hurt but it doesn't anymore, but sometimes when im screaming and i finish then my head starts to hurt unbelievably bad, i almost feel like im gonna black out sometimes. im 14 years old. my screaming still sounds unbelievably crappy but im practising every day. i have no idea on how to sing or the diffirent techniques to use i just scream.

i still have no clue on how to do death metal vocals any tips would be greatly appreciated. some death metal bands:cryptopsy, cannibal corpse, liturgy, brodequin, decapitated, disgorge(the one from u.s.a.). also check out the band opeth they are a proggressive melodic death metal band with beautiful acoustic interludes with clean vocals and incredibely powerful death metal vocals

[QUOTE=alexliwoch]hmmm when i do screaming my throat doesn't really hurt at all ive been trying it for around 2 weeks now and it used to hurt but it doesn't anymore, but sometimes when im screaming and i finish then my head starts to hurt unbelievably bad, i almost feel like im gonna black out sometimes. im 14 years old. my screaming still sounds unbelievably crappy but im practising every day. i have no idea on how to sing or the diffirent techniques to use i just scream.[/QUOTE]

right. now how many people do you think are gonna make a career out of something that painful? your head is more than likely hurting from you pushing too hard and closing off your throat because you cant isolate the cord muscles from your throat muscles yet. that puts all kinds of pressure on your circulation system and especially your head! you have a set of false cords above your vocal cords. they close up when you tense and are there to help keep air pressure inside and not escaping, which supports your body and organs when youre doing something strenuous like lifting. thats why people get lightheaded from lifting too much or whatever. its the same thing. people blacking out from singing is far more common than you might think. do you think this is natural. no. you have to learn the difference between your throat shaping muscles and your vocal cord muscles. there all in the same area yet do totally different things. the easiest way to learn this is from exercises. Noone wants to do exercises. they want to run before they can walk. which leads to many falls and bruises. but in the vocal cord area, it can be very bad for your musical outlook. do it right. learn to scream first and then work on range. again, you have to be able to sing the note first. youre not gonna be able to scream it. otherwise youre just setting yourself up for failure. how long would it take you to bench press 300 pounds if someone dropped it on your chest everyday? the damage you would inflict before getting there would make the trip less worthy. you eventually would be able to stop it, but your body would be shot. now if you lifted a little bit of weight every day and added a bit every other day. you'll get there very quickly. get it?
screaming is just distorted singing. the distortion comes from extra air hitting your throat, to withstand the extra air you have to be strong. if you cant hold that note, then you cant scream it. any professional book or teacher will tell you the same, and they will also tell you that the most common mistake is tension in the throat area blocking airflow and or adding extra pressure to the vocal cords and thus giving you bad notes, pain, blowout, etc. again, its all pretty simple. but you have to work at it. and if youre trying to jump right in and get there with one step it will take you longer because you have to go through the process of healing twice the damage from being beaten, instead of healing from working. and when you do it right, you develop muscle memory that makes it easier and easier. plus too much pressure can permamantely or chronically ben and bow your cords out, which of course wont let them align properly and you can chalk up any kind of strong tone , or strong anything after that. go check my replies if you havent already:
[url]http://www.musicianforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=214130[/url]

don't strain for the sound you want. it'll come eventually with time

Whether this has been said or not. I don't really have the time to read through 15 pages of posts. I read through about 5 or 7 and was like, OK enough of this lol.

But here, have you heard the opening to Walls by Emery anyone? How in the world does that dude do that? It's crazy!

And how do I get my scream to sound like any of the dudes from Thursday? They all scream and have a different one. I just know I want the one who is white and plays guitar. I wanna say Tim Payne but that could be the Hispanic guy. bleh I dunno. Anyways, and pointers?

theres only one way to scream properly.

try readin my replies in this post
[url]http://www.musicianforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=214130[/url]

Hey, I'm not that advanced at screaming yet, but I'm slowly moving along with everybody's tips that they've put in here, and they're really helping me out, so thanks! But my problem is when my band is practicing, I'm using our drummer's pa system. And each time I scream, I usually hold the mic close to my mouth to get more distortion and a bassy sound (leaning towards a Finch/Story of the Year scream), and my drummer yells at me that I'm gonna "clip" the speakers...I really have no idea what he's talking about, since we just started using the pa (before I used a ****ty guitar amp). Anybody know?

maybe the amp is too weak for the speaker. The distortion that comes from a high volume setting (not the volume) is usually what does it. its actually a true term that basically means damaging the speaker from the distortion vibrations if im not mistaken. so you should try to find a balance to where you dont have to have the output so high. use as much gain as you can without feedback that will help you have the tone, clarity and fullness (not to mention more volume) that youre trying to control by moving the mic. technically speaking...you shouldnt have to move the mic. you should be able to control everything by your internal mechanisms. sounds egoish but its true. of course in a show situation you have a sound guy , usually...that can respond accordingly. but just for future things to think of, i would try to not move the mic too much. its a good habit to acquire, though with harder music its just one of those things. so compare the wattage of the amp with what the speaker can handle. if the amp wattage is way lower than the speaker rating then you need a bigger amp. if vice versa, a bigger speaker. If the amp is higher wattage then you can just work down the output. the opposite is where youre more liable to clip. thats when youre trying to make up for a big seperation in wattage. like a 100 watt amp trying to push a 400 watt speaker, ya know? then you have to redline that amp to get some sound from the speaker. redlining somewhere is what fuks up speakers. but dam, otherwise, tweak the volume and gain settings. I dont really know much about speakers and amps, so maybe someone else has some better info. But Im glad that youre making progress though. cool.

Merkaba-1

You have great advices. Some of them really kind of helped me. I didn't know there are so many moments in singing.
I know it has already become irritating,...............but can you please give advises on Cobain like singing and screaming.
I know people say you have to born with such a voice. But I read that Kurt had a horrible voice when he was young. And he gained it later. And my friends told me to smoke to get his voice. But I don't smoke, And I'm not going to rape my lungs because of a voice.

Maybe you have any other tips. Not about just his screaming, but his singing too. Even when he sang not loudly, he had that kind of distorted voice.

Thanks beforehand

[QUOTE=btoto]Merkaba-1

You have great advices. Some of them really kind of helped me. I didn't know there are so many moments in singing.
I know it has already become irritating,...............but can you please give advises on Cobain like singing and screaming.
I know people say you have to born with such a voice. But I read that Kurt had a horrible voice when he was young. And he gained it later. And my friends told me to smoke to get his voice. But I don't smoke, And I'm not going to rape my lungs because of a voice.

Maybe you have any other tips. Not about just his screaming, but his singing too. Even when he sang not loudly, he had that kind of distorted voice.

Thanks beforehand[/QUOTE]

Well yea, dont smoke now if you dont. hell i smoke like three times a week on the weekends only. And thats not good. Im trying to cut back and quite altogether but theres something spiritual i find in a black and mild cigar while being outside and in nature or riding. sue me!
And of course you might get a raspy voice from smoking because youre fukin up your cords. I mean, i'm glad youre smart enough to where you didnt even have to say, "does this work" because you already know better.

I dont know if you read some of my other replies, if you havent then i suggest you do. But again, theres only one way to get rasp correctly. AFter you learn how to do it succesfully, the more you do it the stronger your cords become, which gives you more flexibility. But cobain basically does like Louis armstrong, and lots of other singers. its just the same thing. youre getting the same rasp. Its all the same , trust me. once you have the muscle memory to be able to get it, you can sing raspy the whole time. like i said you should be able to get rasp with at least 50 percent push, and over time you should be able to get it with less, like with a 20 percent push or so. maybe slightly above talking. keep practicing the isolation excercises. Over time doing cobain will probably be nothing. it might take a while. its muscle memory because you have to switch angles a bit for different vowels and different tones. Cobain had kind of a whiney tone to me, so that comes from just being able to manipulate your tone and and notes well. remember you have to be able to sing the notes well before you can rasp them well. But theres only one way to rasp. remember that. and dont try too hard. its just you have to find it. and remember to try to relax as much as possible when trying all this stuff. because you have to learn to relax one part of your throat while using another. just keep at it. to sum up, cobain is just singing with rasp. any specific way or tone is up to you to decide. it sounds a little nasal to me at times. i dont know alot of cobain's stuff. of course the guy from PUddle of Mudd is basically doing the same thing. all the screams and rasp you hear(except for high pitched mariah carey shlt) is done the same way. as far as the rasp goes. once thats down, then you can experiment with manipulating the cords and throat to get what kind of tone and sound you want. its not hard once you get the rasp down. keep practicing man. it will come. after a while you will probably be saying , dam, i can really push harder now. Another thing is, remember there is a balancing point. if you push too hard you will lose tone and volume because too much air is escaping. so dont push too hard while youre learning. furthermore when you do, ** many people push harder because they think that the lack of volume and tone is coming from them not giving enough air. any extra air has to escape and thats where you have to make sure youre open so that extra air isnt creating a wall of pressure. when it does you get fatigue and loss of everything faster, then you think yo uneed to push more air, then youre back up there to where i put those two stars. then you go through that cycle again and again and again until youre shot. and be sure youre singing from your diapghram. thats what alot of people say because when you dont you push from the throat, kinda like a cough feel. that squeeze is when youre closing the throat. the big no no. so staying open and singing from the diagphram are the same idea. so remember to relax and practice staying open. and dont think too much. Warm up good too. it took me like an hour today to be able to slip into a comfortable rasp. it was like today my vocal cords were ready but the muscles that control my throat were still sluggish. so if i would have tried to rush it, i wouldve been pushing more air and going downhill. But Im ready now. i mean, i can wake up in the morning and do mudvayne and chino and cornell, but i would be shot as far as working later on. its not that its that hard, i just know my comfort zones. dont think into all this stuff too much. again, i like being wordy because i like sharing quality communication. it might be one last minute sentence that i decide to throw in that might be the turning point in understanding. And so with everyone when communicating. so take it easy and take care of your cords and it will come. and again, try practicing achieving the tone and some rasp with like a 50 percent push. the volume wont be the same, but it will help you not to tense and close up the throat. and try singing a cobain song but only using the word HAY.
dont try to do too much at once. the time it takes to grow and strengthen is all planned out in relation to what else you need to learn and experience along the way. dont choose to fuk up your voice by being impatient. that would be your choice. not an accident. enough on this book. didnt i say "to sum up" about three minutes ago? oh well.

Merkaba-1

wow. I didn't know I would cause you so much trouble. You wrote so much. Thanks a lot. I really appreciate that.

ha ha. Now I know my problem. I was pushing 100% of air and I felt like cats were fighting in my throat. :) So, now I should try 50% as you said.
It's great that it is possible to get raspy voice. Because all that tales about smoking and having it from birth really disappointed me.

However, I will have to bother you again. The thing that causes me trouble, is that when I try to sing raspy, I don't get raspy voice I get more of a growling. Smth like death-metal stuff. And I hate that. I mean, it sounds raspy, but in the same time it sounds like a growling vocals. Do you know how I can avoid that?
And another thing.............I didn't really get it. What is isolation exercises?

Thanks a lot man,
Sorry to bother you again.

[QUOTE=Poisonthewelll]Posion the well has some good screams, especially Nerdy and Botchla[/QUOTE]

yes those are my fav ptw songs

cuz the screams :thumb:

thanks man, i now know the secret to like cobain and bennington. I guess its the same with Jonathan Davis, who knows. but thanks. I guess i need to start practicing

Well like if its not, how does Jonathan scream? Is there a certain way to do it, or is it all the same?

[QUOTE=btoto]Merkaba-1

wow. I didn't know I would cause you so much trouble. You wrote so much. Thanks a lot. I really appreciate that.

ha ha. Now I know my problem. I was pushing 100% of air and I felt like cats were fighting in my throat. :) So, now I should try 50% as you said.
It's great that it is possible to get raspy voice. Because all that tales about smoking and having it from birth really disappointed me.

However, I will have to bother you again. The thing that causes me trouble, is that when I try to sing raspy, I don't get raspy voice I get more of a growling. Smth like death-metal stuff. And I hate that. I mean, it sounds raspy, but in the same time it sounds like a growling vocals. Do you know how I can avoid that?
And another thing.............I didn't really get it. What is isolation exercises?

Thanks a lot man,
Sorry to bother you again.[/QUOTE]
no trouble at all. There have a been a few instances that i get long winded because i love singing and i like to try to help. i've come a long way and i hope others can too.
And you poor thing. you were killing your poor innocent cords. you HAVE to learn the feeling of coming from your Diaphragm. you must have support. and an open throat. go to this link, and i do think that the first one under screaming has a couple of long replies in it. in which i discuss some isolation techniques. its quite simple. just takes time. [url]http://www.musicianforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=219911[/url]

and again, you didnt bother me. i have free will. if i was bothered i wouldve acted like i didnt see your post. trust me , its easy on a forum to not be bothered. :)

and yes, you should practice at 50% or so. but with good diagphram support you should be able to get some rasp. this will help you to not over push and constrict the throat while emotion and singing get the best of you. trust me, learning to isolate can be a big key. you must learn to move your vocal cords and your throat independently of each other. you havent been doing that i assure you. and yea, its cool to be able to generate a raspy voice, yet in normal conversation have a delicate soft one. i think thats kick ***. and thats what i have. and many greats like maynard and cornell, a few of my idols, are like that. rasp is technique, and is not vocal cord related like it would be if you were a smoker seeking to rasp your voice. lol. nothing good about that at all. and theres nothing genetic about being able to reflect air off of the back of your throat after passing it over over your cords. it just takes good support, and open throat, and practice. keep at it. if you have any more questions feel free to ask me.

[QUOTE=guitarrey]Well like if its not, how does Jonathan scream? Is there a certain way to do it, or is it all the same?[/QUOTE]

heres the skinny. Theres only one proper way to do a rock/metal/emo/blues/r&b/country/etc type of scream. and that is to scrape extra air off of the back of the throat. thats it. The only other scream is when you can just hit a real high pitch
like prince or mariah carey. if its high enough people consider it screaming. that just takes strong vocal cords and cant be gained by everybody. probably not really what you want to do.

the changing factor is how you shape the tone youre hitting off of the throat. that is the only thing that is one of a kind or can be compared. either you use more tone or less tone, or trill, vibrato, etc. which means you icorporate more of the cords or less. remember, you have to be able to sing the note well and have control over it before you can scream it well. thats just it. youre just singing the note off of the back of your throat, so if youre not strong enough to sing it strong and tight first, then you need to practice more. you realize that once you can sing it flawlessly tight with alot of push, then you can do whatever you want with it. so try to [B]sing [/B] a jonathan scream first. and sing it hard. be sure to relax, not move the mouth much(while youre learning), support with a good inhalation into the gut, and sing from the gut, with an open throat. (or sing the note using "hah" as the word) keep practicing. and warming up and warming down.

how does one scream in key :confused:
iv got the scream that i like down pretty good but its just the whole staying in key thing that puts me off........please help me,im in need :D

my scream is like the dudes from alexisonfire if thats any help.

any tone/note in the scream comes from your vocal cords. staying in key, means youre hitting the proper note while you scream. that just takes practice dealing with the cords. you should be able to sing the note first, in key, before you scream it. practice singing the note instead. and dont push too hard when trying either. you shouldnt have to push that hard if you warm up properly. staying in key is just practice. practice scales and notes on the piano or guitar to get your ears on the same page with your cords. but one common problem is thinking too much. most people arent tone def. if you relax your cords will automatically stay in key, most of the time. if youre singing or screaming with a tense or closed throat it makes it harder to stay in key because the airflow is restricted, and if you dont support with your gut area, you will have a harder time. and every scream doesnt have to have a full set of lungs. this can also make you mis notes. inhale as much as needed. not automatically as deep as possible just because youre gonna scream.

:thumb: thanks for that. Ill start practicing my scales.
my porblyem isnt staying in key alltogether because i can sing an stay in key pretty well beh ehh..

Question: I can do a sort of death metal type growl from the back of my throat, to a lesser extent a la Therapy? Hey Satan- You Rock, and I can do a hardcore punk type scream just by going all out, I feel it a little further forward. Both of these make my throat a little irritated, though. Not bad, but if I did a 30 minute gig like that I'd be worried. What I really want is a Trent Reznor kind of scream, as in when he goes: I want to f*ck you like an ANIMAL! It's not all that different from his singing style though, I think he incorporates a little of that most of the time. Anyway, I get what Merkaba is saying with scratching the notes (something like what Brendan Perry (dead can dance) does in Severance), that happens to me on random days just when I'm singing, but I can't do it when I try... Also, with falsetto. I got nothing. I have a very weak lower falsetto, when I push I can only make an extremely high pitched, short scream without that much rasp. Where am I going wrong? Help me...

[QUOTE=italic zero]Question: I can do a sort of death metal type growl from the back of my throat, to a lesser extent a la Therapy? Hey Satan- You Rock, and I can do a hardcore punk type scream just by going all out, I feel it a little further forward. Both of these make my throat a little irritated, though. Not bad, but if I did a 30 minute gig like that I'd be worried. What I really want is a Trent Reznor kind of scream, as in when he goes: I want to f*ck you like an ANIMAL! It's not all that different from his singing style though, I think he incorporates a little of that most of the time. Anyway, I get what Merkaba is saying with scratching the notes (something like what Brendan Perry (dead can dance) does in Severance), that happens to me on random days just when I'm singing, but I can't do it when I try... Also, with falsetto. I got nothing. I have a very weak lower falsetto, when I push I can only make an extremely high pitched, short scream without that much rasp. Where am I going wrong? Help me...[/QUOTE]

well its just like anything else. you have to work that area. and not just trying here or there. i mean its nothing for me personally to spend an hour on working on specific parts of my voice. but the fun thing is you can do it while singing. so for me, its been the kind of spiritually led thing to where i automatically have seemed to come across the next step in my development. by that i meant something that i like, that i could try to emulate. so get some songs or artist that you know sing high or higher than you normally can. then try to sing them. this is kinda a no no among alot of professionals. but the important part is to relax and dont sing too hard at first. just try to relax and make those notes. I worked on my upper registers by singing stuff like sarah mclachlin. Sweet surrender's chorus is a good exercise in and of itself. i mean youre talking about working every day to some extent. like 360 days a year over the past few years. thats alot of work, but i have grown immensely. i dont know if everyone has that kind of time. during the early part i was singing somewhat incorrectly, but it still helped me grow. Now i usually gauge myself by using Chris Cornell, mudvayne, Deftones, Tapping the vein, a little mars volta, at the drive in. it all helps keep the upper range strong while emulating the songs. hell i just figured out that Elite, by the Deftones off of the white poney album is gonna go into my reperetoire. if you havent heard it, you should listen to it. but i will use that to help train. just sing songs you like, from the gut, and relax. try to keep doing this for a long time, its the only way to get the area to grow and change. it is also imperative you make sure the singing push is coming from your gut area. not from your throat. there shouldnt be any push like a cough, but you should be open like a yawn. and when you push out, that force should come your belly button going in and up, kinda that feel. pay attention to how your throat feels when you yawn, very open. again, there shouldnt be any pain. if you ever do, stop. and at least come back and tell us what you were doing. maybe i could help shed some light. I like to get out as many angles and info as i can. again, not cause i try to be a look at me and what i know. i just know that it can take one or two sentences that can take your understanding to another level, thus your singing. like for me, it was the fact that the vocal cords are horizontal. i thought they were in the back of my throat kinda . but when i visualized them being horizontal and lower down the windpipe, it gave me a different perspective to what i should be feeling and doing with them and the air that comes to and through them. so just stay relaxed. warm up, and no pain. and also if your speaking voice is more than minimally affected you also are doing something wrong. over time you shouldnt have change in your speaking voice after you workout your voice in any capacity. you should never get hoarse in other words. at first, maybe slightly. but if you do youre strainging the cords too much. anyways. cheerio. keep at it.

Merkaba-1,

ha ha........I have some good news for you: I can already make some rasp. thanks to you of course ! :thumb:
But I can sing raspy only when I sing at a low voice. I mean, if I want to sing loudly, I'll get no rasp. And it is sad :upset: Probably, it's just a matter of time.

Also, one more question: Right now I'm 19. And I started singing when I was 18. A year ago. And I have never sang before that in my life. Is it where the problems come from? Maybe because I started singing too late. Or you think that's OK?

Thanks again, :wave:

hey merkaba - could you please use paragraphs? that would make your long replies so much easier to read... they're so full of information, so it's a pity that i don't want to read them solely because it's a huge chunk of text in the middle of the page.

what year is it now? *secret bump*

[QUOTE=shadedlife]hey merkaba - could you please use paragraphs? that would make your long replies so much easier to read... they're so full of information, so it's a pity that i don't want to read them solely because it's a huge chunk of text in the middle of the page.[/QUOTE]

I think about that all the time actually. but i usually am typing so much im too lazy to hit space five times. i cant use tab because that switches my curser to the submit reply button, but i'll try to work on that. but also a simple space or indention is also just a mental thing. its still the same info. so that gives us both something to work on! :thumb: :lol:

:wave: