During the early 80s underground music was pretty popular but the over access of MTV and Hair Metal over shadowed it and two it wasn't talked about much.

[QUOTE=Enlighten Me]Dude wtf do you mean popular? Metallica was one of the first great thrash bands out there and were pretty darn original.[/QUOTE]
Megadeth were better :p

[QUOTE=Cathedral]Megadeth were better :p[/QUOTE]


Amen to that brother.

Although atm Iced Earth > Both

:eek:

yeah but Megadeth only came out after Metallica already had released their second album.

[QUOTE=Cathedral]Megadeth were better :p[/QUOTE]

Opinions, Opinions. Personally I enjoy both's thrash work but I thing in the thrash world Slayer is King.

[QUOTE=Soul_Under_Arrest]Personally I think they were sell outs from day one. Let me explain this a little bit. You have 4 broke people who are trying to make money so they can have money to live doing what they enjoy. Now they have to do their very best to sell records. Meaning doing what is popular at the time. Now there you have two directions. You can A.) Do the now thing or B.) Doing something that will start the now thing. Remember that hair/glam metal was popular but so was underground music.[/QUOTE]

Thrash metal wasn't popular at their time. It was all basically hair metal. It was gaining popularity though. Metallica is a very original band. Sure they got some parts from the bands that inspired them, but most of it is original. Even load, reload, and st. anger.

[QUOTE=Soul_Under_Arrest]Kill 'Em All started them off so they could move along the country. Ride the Lightning made it so they could buy stuff that they couldn't before. Master of Puppets put them on the map. This would probably be there biggest break. Starting Statium tours and headlining tours. Money was flowing in like a mother f**ker. ...And Justice For All made them a main stay. The Black Album put them in the lime light.[/QUOTE]

Yes, they're rich.They say they like the path they've been through, music-wise, so why shouldn't they be proud and enjoy the money they made by making music? Yes, the lars sueing people, and companies is ridiculous, but besides that they're pretty straight forward with their music and money. Anyways, most bands that have been playing for 20+ years are rich.

[QUOTE=Soul_Under_Arrest]All of that would be their 'sell out' stuff. After all of that money became nothing to them. So making a record to sell very well wouldn't really help or hurt them. They had already made it so in-turn they had the freedom to do whatever they wanted because A.) They had the fan base to support them B.) They had already set themselves as a band C.) They had more then enough money to suit their needs. D.) Endorsements.[/QUOTE]

Sellout doesn't mean you sell lots of records. Britney Spears' Baby one more time sold probably near black album, did she sell out? Nope. She's part of popular culture, which is what sells. And she probably loves what she does and music she makes.

[QUOTE=Soul_Under_Arrest]So then the tide turns and they can now put out stuff that they like and music for themselves. This then creates Load, ReLoad and St. Anger. These albums are Metallica's musical freedom and expression for themselves. This is also called Metallica's 'selling out' point, when it actually is the bolt cutter to the chains that started them as a band who was 'selling out'.[/QUOTE]

Actually metallica probably dislike load and reload. Even on SKOM they've said how they proved they can make just about any music "work" as shown on load/reload. If you ask them today, do they ever regret releasing or making any of the albums, their answers would most likely be no, whether millions loved it, or millions hated it. It's metallica. :smoke: :smoke:

Man I wonder what the new album is going to be like..

[QUOTE=PepsiMetal]Thrash metal wasn't popular at their time. It was all basically hair metal. It was gaining popularity though. Metallica is a very original band. Sure they got some parts from the bands that inspired them, but most of it is original. Even load, reload, and st. anger.



Yes, they're rich.They say they like the path they've been through, music-wise, so why shouldn't they be proud and enjoy the money they made by making music? Yes, the lars sueing people, and companies is ridiculous, but besides that they're pretty straight forward with their music and money. Anyways, most bands that have been playing for 20+ years are rich.



Sellout doesn't mean you sell lots of records. Britney Spears' Baby one more time sold probably near black album, did she sell out? Nope. She's part of popular culture, which is what sells. And she probably loves what she does and music she makes.



Actually metallica probably dislike load and reload. Even on SKOM they've said how they proved they can make just about any music "work" as shown on load/reload. If you ask them today, do they ever regret releasing or making any of the albums, their answers would most likely be no, whether millions loved it, or millions hated it. It's metallica. :smoke: :smoke:[/QUOTE]

I see your points but you got to look at mine from my view to maybe understand it. My definition of a sell out in terms of a band is one that is trying to make it so they can make money. People are say Metallica has sold out after the Black album or during the Black album (though they've been saying it since the release of the One video) just to make money. I say after MoP, money wasn't an issue for them so why would they need to become sell outs to make more money? Personally I think they started as sell outs and after the black album they stopped being sell outs.

I have nothing against pop music other then I'm not a fan of it and nor did I say selling a lot of records = sell outs.

Basically my point is money talks and people will do anything to get it. When they have enough or it gets to the point were they have so much that they don't know what to do with it, they basically can do what they enjoy with out having to impress to gain more money.

Sure Metallica may not like Load, ReLoad or St. Anger but I'm sure at the time of them recording it, it was probably what they thought was right/want to create.

[QUOTE=Enlighten Me]Man I wonder what the new album is going to be like..[/QUOTE]

All I've heard about it is James has a new vocal style, solos are back on and everyone is focusing (especially Lars) on the tone of their instruments.

[QUOTE=Soul_Under_Arrest] everyone is focusing [B](especially Lars[/B]) on the tone of their instruments.[/QUOTE]

Thank god :lol:

[QUOTE=Father_Jack]Amen to that brother.

Although atm Iced Earth > Both

:eek:[/QUOTE]

Nice to see yuor enjoying them a lot.

Before I had an urge to play along to some Metallica...would be fun, but I don't remember full songs :-/

[QUOTE=Stormrider331]Nice to see yuor enjoying them a lot.

Before I had an urge to play along to some Metallica...would be fun, but I don't remember full songs :-/[/QUOTE]


Hey man. Yeah getting into Burnt Offerings. Its a bit different to their other stuff.

By the way, anychance you could upload me The Glorious Burden (no rush by the way)? I got it off the Daily Upload but its in a format I can't play :(

I'd be very grateful.

[email]jackramsden2003@hotmail.com[/email]

[QUOTE=Father_Jack]Hey man. Yeah getting into Burnt Offerings. Its a bit different to their other stuff.

By the way, anychance you could upload me The Glorious Burden (no rush by the way)? I got it off the Daily Upload but its in a format I can't play :(

I'd be very grateful.

[email]jackramsden2003@hotmail.com[/email][/QUOTE]

Burnt Offerings is awsome :) You should come in the IE thread sometime.

As for uploading, I uploaded an album once, and something bad happened...the songs wouldn't play :-/ I could try again, but I'm not guarenteeing anything.

BTW, it's different to the other stuff...different vocalist too. Still a great album though.

[QUOTE=Stormrider331]Burnt Offerings is awsome :) You should come in the IE thread sometime.
[/QUOTE]

Yeah I'll drop by some other time, when it's not like 23.20pm.

As for now, I'm out. G'night MX :wave:

[QUOTE=Cathedral]Megadeth were better :p[/QUOTE]
Hell yeah.

[QUOTE=MRDuCran]When will it be?[/QUOTE]


I have one every saturday morning. This week I'm recording the crazy train solo. and next week maybe Blackened

[QUOTE=Soul_Under_Arrest]I see your points but you got to look at mine from my view to maybe understand it. My definition of a sell out in terms of a band is one that is trying to make it so they can make money. People are say Metallica has sold out after the Black album or during the Black album (though they've been saying it since the release of the One video) just to make money. I say after MoP, money wasn't an issue for them so why would they need to become sell outs to make more money? Personally I think they started as sell outs and after the black album they stopped being sell outs.

I have nothing against pop music other then I'm not a fan of it and nor did I say selling a lot of records = sell outs.

Basically my point is money talks and people will do anything to get it. When they have enough or it gets to the point were they have so much that they don't know what to do with it, they basically can do what they enjoy with out having to impress to gain more money.

Sure Metallica may not like Load, ReLoad or St. Anger but I'm sure at the time of them recording it, it was probably what they thought was right/want to create.[/QUOTE]
sigh... At least he's being sensible about this.

Then explain to me why Metallica went against almost all popular rock genres of their time. Their first albums often were much heavier than many of the popular records of the time. I realize there were many bands like Black Sabbath, Motorhead etc. However these are maybe 2 or 3 famous bands out of hundreds of other popular bands. Also take note that MoP only went platinum AFTER AJFA went platinum. They weren't rich until around the time of AJFA and the Black album. Personally I think they didn't sell out until Load. Why? Because from what i've gathered a sell-out is a band that makes music not for the sake of making good music but for making money and appealing to as many people as they can. Well their first few albums was the music they really enjoyed. They really loved that music. They wanted to change it up for the Black Album and they became rich. Then they really changed things (This is where they became absurdly popular and where i believe they became sell-outs).

[QUOTE=Britton]I have one every saturday morning. This week I'm recording the crazy train solo. and next week maybe Blackened[/QUOTE]

Are you going to upload Crazy Train too?

What are everyone's personal feelings on the new album im pretty excited and i think they are on the right path.

I hope theyre on the right path. I wouldnt like another St Anger. I bet their whole fanbase wouldnt want another St Anger either.

[QUOTE=Soul_Under_Arrest]I see your points but you got to look at mine from my view to maybe understand it. My definition of a sell out in terms of a band is one that is trying to make it so they can make money. People are say Metallica has sold out after the Black album or during the Black album (though they've been saying it since the release of the One video) just to make money. I say after MoP, money wasn't an issue for them so why would they need to become sell outs to make more money? Personally I think they started as sell outs and after the black album they stopped being sell outs.

I have nothing against pop music other then I'm not a fan of it and nor did I say selling a lot of records = sell outs.

Basically my point is money talks and people will do anything to get it. When they have enough or it gets to the point were they have so much that they don't know what to do with it, they basically can do what they enjoy with out having to impress to gain more money.

Sure Metallica may not like Load, ReLoad or St. Anger but I'm sure at the time of them recording it, it was probably what they thought was right/want to create.[/QUOTE]

Yea, I understand what you mean. I don't know though, everything's possible. But did metallica actually get rich from first four albums? Or did those first four albums start selling ALOT once they became one of the most popular bands with their black album? But yea, I dont know. It makes sense if they were rich, they wouldn't need to get rich, but then again Lars sued napster in like 1998 or 1999, by then they must have money. Although I can see why he did get pissed off and started sueing. Oh well.

[QUOTE=Aw3someman]Because from what i've gathered a sell-out is a band that makes music not for the sake of making good music but for making money and appealing to as many people as they can. Well their first few albums was the music they really enjoyed. They really loved that music.[/QUOTE]

Are you sure sure about this? As far as I know, in every interview they keep saying how they don't want to go back to their old music, they want to try something new everytime so that it doesn't get boring, etc...

[QUOTE=BurtonChancellor]You've also misunderstood what I was saying. I was commenting more on your general contention that being a musician is like being a salesman, and that you have to write music based on what you think your fans are going to like. Personally, I think we'd all be far better off if everybody who feels that way about music put down their instruments forever and just disappeared like a fart in the wind.

And as for Metallica specifically, whether or not they "sold out" or were simply seeking to continue to progess musically and creatively, as they also did from Kill 'Em All through to Justice is an endless argument that I don't particularly care to engage in. [U]The bottom line is that their musical progression since the beginning of the 90's, whatever its motivations, has produced more than its share of ****ty music[/U].[/QUOTE]

Yes I do agree with you there. One other thing I forgot to mention in my first post was... Load/reload especially often get lashed for being Metallica's so called down albums. These albums are awesome albums. I just think they had the wrong fans to present these albums to!

If you think of it..
Kill em all
Ride The Lightning
Master of puppets
And Justice for all
were all released....
What kinda of fan basis do you think the band had at this point??? Then they go on to release..Load/Reload???
All of these thrash/Metal fans buy reload and race home to play it.. Mama said! At this point they were probably thinking something along the line of.. WTF I have a dud CD that has some other band on it!

If another band was to release load/reload as their first two albums admittedly they would have got alot better feedback from the album.

See that's where Metallica went wrong. I mean one ballad here and there but dont go over the border.
That's what other genres are for. :\

I think they tought people wanted that kinda stuff after Nothing else matters was like so much by people.

[QUOTE="Cathedral"]
Megadeth [B]were[/B] better [/QUOTE]



:upset:




but I still like Megadeth's newer stuff compared with Metallica new stuff :p

Agreed.

I hope they wont do what they did with St Anger.

What sound did they want to achieve? A band coming together for the first time?

[QUOTE=Soul_Under_Arrest]The problem with everything from Load to St. Anger is people are still looking for albums like Kill 'Em All to the Black Album. If another band made that album as their first then people would like it more. The problem is people don't like change and Metallica is a band that changed.[/QUOTE]

Some pages back i said exactly the same thing.....

[QUOTE=Mother]but I still like Megadeth's newer stuff compared with Metallica new stuff :p[/QUOTE]

2003 was the only year Megadeth has ever been better than Metallica.

Just barely.

[QUOTE]See that's where Metallica went wrong. I mean one ballad here and there but dont go over the border[/QUOTE]

Five of their ballads probably make up my top 10 favorite Metallica songs.

It's a catch 22 situation though, change and youre lambasted for it, remain the same and you still get critisized.

The key is to find what people love in your music and try to progress it, by progressing your own abilities.

The problem with Metallicas music - apart from the fact is is from a now defunct era - is that none of the aspects of it could have improved without an ensuing drastic change.

FTB,Sanitarium,One,Unforgivin etc...some of their best songs.

[QUOTE=Joe]2003 was the only year Megadeth has ever been better than Metallica.

Just barely.
[/QUOTE]
No way, sorry this is opinion but I can't disagree more.
I'd take anything SFSGSW onwards over anything AJFA onwards.

But 'Tallica ballads>megadeth ballads.