[QUOTE=Kyle]Yeah, I think I agree when you put it like that. But it's not really down to Rob, Lars and James will decide how much imput he has on the songwriting, hopefully they will really let him express himself.[/QUOTE]

Yea here to, but as long as he doesnt go on an all out jazz trip, keep it metal people lol, and when i mean metal, old metal not new or nu or neu metal or whatever the f*ck its called. Stop listening to the Linkin Park...

[QUOTE=Rattlehead] that's because they were early inspirations of Jason's solo work, Echobrain, which when listened to is blatently not metallica. Lars, in the hands of whom by power is held the fate of the bands genre, identified this and would not let it happen. Jason, when allowed to have an input with more than 50% of his overall ideas, would have lead metallica away from their true sound. more so than the departure of Cliff.[/QUOTE]

because Anger was just so similar to MoP...anyway, if you listen to jasons new Voivod stuff, its shows that Jason could easily write classic metallica stuff.

[QUOTE=E_man]because Anger was just so similar to MoP.[/QUOTE]
thats not what i said. they developed, yes, but over time. if at the time of Black album they had allowed Jason to input his music metallica would have been radically changed.

[QUOTE=E_man]...anyway, if you listen to jasons new Voivod stuff, its shows that Jason could easily write classic metallica stuff.[/QUOTE]
that was later on, and wasn't shot down by lars or james... i think.

[QUOTE=Rattlehead]
that was later on, and wasn't shot down by lars or james... i think.[/QUOTE]

What about Blackened, it has Newsted name on it, i think that demostrates that Jason could write Metal back in then. Jason was underappreciated by Metallica.

[QUOTE=heavy metal kid]What about Blackened, it has Newsted name on it, i think that demostrates that Jason could write Metal back in then.[/QUOTE]you what? i dont understand.:confused: [QUOTE=heavy metal kid]Jason was underappreciated by Metallica.[/QUOTE]
absolutely. and james likes to call it "roughening him up". i dissaprove of this, but no disrespect to him.

[QUOTE=heavy metal kid]What about Blackened, it has Newsted name on it, i think that demostrates that Jason could write Metal back in then. Jason was underappreciated by Metallica.[/QUOTE]
oh you mean Black Album? yeah, thats what timmySmi was saying. that is one of the albums where Newsteads ideas were majorly "shot down" by james/lars, and thats why Black Album does [B]not[/B] have jasons name on it.

[QUOTE=Rattlehead]you what? i dont understand.:confused:
[/QUOTE]

You are saying that Jason couldn't write riffs during AJFA and the Black album because his sound wasn't directed to Metallica, they were more to Echobrain.

I said that's not true, Jason could easily write riffs to Metallica, Blackened is an example.

[QUOTE=Rattlehead]oh you mean Black Album? yeah, thats what timmySmi was saying. that is one of the albums where Newsteads ideas were majorly "shot down" by james/lars, and thats why Black Album does [B]not[/B] have jasons name on it.[/QUOTE]

My Friend of Misery...never played live.

[QUOTE=heavy metal kid]You are saying that Jason couldn't write riffs during AJFA and the Black album because his sound wasn't directed to Metallica, they were more to Echobrain.
I said that's not true, Jason could easily write riffs to Metallica, Blackened is an example.[/quote]no, im saying that the [I]majority[/I] of his stuff wasn't suitable.
[I]and since when did Jason write Blackened???[/I] are you sure you don't mean Black Album?



[QUOTE=heavy metal kid]My Friend of Misery...never played live.[/QUOTE] a rare but fair comment. this is an exception, i think. but then alot of people hate MFOM. i dont, which contradicts what i am saying. but since this song is an exception(IMO) i dont mind. i stand by my love for MFOM.

[QUOTE=Rattlehead]
[I]and since when did Jason write Blackened???[/I] are you sure you don't mean Black Album?
[/QUOTE]

Blackened: Hetfield/Ulrich/[B]Newsted[/B]

check for yourself [url]http://www.metallica.com/Media/Albums/albums.asp?album_id=5[/url]

[I]there is no bass guitar in Blackened!?!?!?!?[/I]

must be a mistake.


or any other ajfa song for that matter.

[QUOTE=Rattlehead][I]there is no bass guitar in Blackened!?!?!?!?[/I]
or any other ajfa song for that matter.[/QUOTE]

Sure there is, the bass is only turned down, not bass-less, besides it does have bass live.

yeah, made up for live performances so that jason/rob didn't look lame and stupid standing around not playing anything.

ok, so the bass is turned down. [I]to zero decibels!!![/I] i cannot hear anything but loud bassy guitar in ajfa. because that's all there is. trust.

and anyway, why would he write for blackened and nothing else on ajfa??? has to be a mistake on that site, man.

Everyone's reasoning for forming opinions is valid, because opinions cannot be wrong. My ears are not misted I just feel his vocal approach is that to of watching paint dry. I don't know if your implying Iam a Metalhead with no acute musical hearing or just saying that to validate your view. But just because I have a disliking for the album does'nt mean I have no ability to have flexability. I don't feel the need to repeat myself but I dislike AJFA for the reasons stated on my last post. I doubt they did'nt like his ideas because they were Ecobrain orintated thats just Jason being musical well minded, of course he could write heavy riffs i.e Flotsam & Jetsam, Vovoid. But I agree on the fact with you that Metallica at the time where looking for a new sound and thats what probably led to Newsteds ideas beingshot away. Even when Metallica were going through there transformation into the Load,Reload era it was Jason that was against all of it, He was colaberating with bands like Sepultura. Iam sure if anyone was capable of writing a good metal riff is was Jason.

um, no, i was just saying that people often dont like a change from their thrash because of their inflexability. and so they exclude their later albums. i wasn't saying that was you, because you weren't objecting to their turning from thrash. you were objecting to ajfa. but i dont think james' vocals were passionless, they were full of power, which may have clouded any sense of passion for you. IMO, in a good way.

the vovoid stuff was later, so lars/james did not hear any early influences of it. and so they were judging his echobrain stuff, which was not at that stage suitable for metallica's sound. (In my opinion, and, apparently, Lars'.) Hence the "shooting-down" of his ideas.

[QUOTE=Rattlehead]um, no, i was just saying that people often dont like a change from their thrash because of their inflexability. and so they exclude their later albums. i wasn't saying that was you, because you weren't objecting to their turning from thrash. you were objecting to ajfa. but i dont think james' vocals were passionless, they were full of power, which may have clouded any sense of passion for you. IMO, in a good way.[/QUOTE]

Nothing clouded my sense of passion I just did'nt like his tone plain and simple.

[QUOTE=Rattlehead]
the vovoid stuff was later, so lars/james did not hear any early influences of it. and so they were judging his echobrain stuff, which was not at that stage suitable for metallica's sound. (In my opinion, and, apparently, Lars'.) Hence the "shooting-down" of his ideas.[/QUOTE]

Echobrain was after Jason left Iam talking from the prespective of his career as a whole In Metallica. As E_Man said surely Blackened and his work with Sepultura and Flotsam & Jestsam prove he was quite capable of writing heavy stuff. But also to be fair Newsted has stated he has given ideas to songs that he has not being given credict for aswell.

[QUOTE=timmySmi]Nothing clouded my sense of passion I just did'nt like his tone plain and simple.[/QUOTE]fair enough.



[QUOTE=timmySmi]Echobrain was after Jason left Iam talking from the prespective of his career as a whole In Metallica. As E_Man said surely Blackened and his work with Sepultura and Flotsam & Jestsam prove he was quite capable of writing heavy stuff. But also to be fair Newsted has stated he has given ideas to songs that he has not being given credict for aswell.[/QUOTE]but the issue was the basis upon which lars/james shot down his ideas. and that basis was that they weren't fully aware of the above mentioned potential. they had thus far merely heard his early echobrain influences, which, as i have said many a time, Lars did not see fit for metallica's genre at that time. and i agree. i respect jasons heavy metal ability, his heavy metal ability is not the point.

[QUOTE=timmySmi]I just did'nt like his tone plain and simple.[/QUOTE]
do you mean you "didn't like his tone, plain and simple," or just that you "didn't like his tone when it was plain and simple"?

[QUOTE=hetfieldfan86]I think u guys r both wrong....u sometimes can't expect a band to write amazing stuff after 7 studioe albums and rehab...even though i do like some fo the riffs off "..Anger." Bottom line 'tallica sounds better live than most bands their age and older....and still kick some serious a** live...if the new album is half decent it'll be better than most crap these days....period! ROCK ON!!!!![/QUOTE]

I really would love it if you could speel.

[QUOTE]yeah, made up for live performances so that jason/rob didn't look lame and stupid standing around not playing anything.

ok, so the bass is turned down. to zero decibels!!! i cannot hear anything but loud bassy guitar in ajfa. because that's all there is. trust.

and anyway, why would he write for blackened and nothing else on ajfa??? has to be a mistake on that site, man.[/QUOTE]

The Blackened intro would not be cool at all if you couldn't hear the bass, so they turned that up. But yes, that's about all the bass you can hear on the album. In my opinion, Rob is too loud live. Sometimes it makes the songs sound sloppy.

Jason left because he had different directions he wanted to take his music and Metallica didn't like the way it was going. James got mad that Jason was in a side project so that he could express himself. James wanted Metallica to be perfect, so Jason left.

absolutely. but who plays the bass on the studio blackened? i thought newstead came in the Black Album. and Cliff died before ajfa, so its fitting that i cant hear any bass guitar. i still am doubtful that there actually is any bass guitar in it.

people have said before on this thread that there isn't, aswell.

hmmm...

It was most definitely Newsted on Blackened.

[QUOTE=Rattlehead]do you mean you "didn't like his tone, plain and simple," or just that you "didn't like his tone when it was plain and simple"?[/QUOTE]
Jesus christ, I did'nt like his tone plain and simple as in I just did'nt like it I have already given my reason to why I did'nt in a previous post. Iam also very sure they where aware of his songwriting ability. Before joining he released Doomsday Deciever with F&J and he near enough wrote that whole album. So before letting him join I think they where fully aware of his capabilitys as a songwriter. It was all down to Lars & James direction they where taking musicially.

Jason wrote the main riff to Blackened. His bass is almost non audioable due to a combination of amature production on behalf of lars & James and and his equipment which he used. Steinberger bass along with a gallien krueger amp which Jason said just wasn't happening. Plus some speculate that is was because he was the newkid on the block.

calm down mate, i wasn't mad or anything, i was just not sure about your wording. just curious!

and as i have already said, i don't doubt jason's ability in bass playing. so you won't need to tell me for the umpteenth time about how brilliant a musician he is.:rolleyes:

you are probably right about him being the new kid on the block. so much so that his bass is literally inaudible. did he play in any other ajfa songs? *doubtful*

and jasons ideas were shot down because they didn't suit metallica. so its justified. <---- appropriate word usage :lol:

He recorded in every song on AJFA, it's just turned down so much that you can't hear him.

that's bloody stupid.

jeesus, he must have been pissed after that.

[QUOTE=Rattlehead]that's bloody stupid.

jeesus, he must have been pissed after that.[/QUOTE]

Yeh it is but I suppose it was just a way of dealing with burton's death.
that's what hetfield said about it anyway, that they weren't really ready for another bassist to replace their friend

[QUOTE=Rattlehead]that's bloody stupid.

jeesus, he must have been pissed after that.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, apparently he's still not over it or something.

It's quite a bummer they did that too because Newsted's bass playing is always fun to listen to.

He's not over it? You're thinking of Mustaine. :p

Seriously though, if he was that mad at them for mixing him out wouldn't he have left the band a long time ago?

yeah he just took it on the nose in hope for increased future respect, it would seem. i suppose he got a few inros, GTF, MFOM, KN... not too good, but better than absolutely inaudible bass playing throughout an entire album.... i still can't get over that.

[QUOTE=PepsiMetal]He's not over it? You're thinking of Mustaine. :p
[/QUOTE]
Mustaine confuses me. One minute he's over it, the next he's moaning again.

hell yes. 666th post, baby!

Metallica had to be the place, they were my first metal band. may this thread thrive untill the final Apocalyptic Lockdown on MX.

haha, and Flower dance is 15,000 posts ahead of me exactly, lol.