I edited that post a lot and turned it into a lesson if anybody wants to czech it out.

I'm beginning to understand chord progressions for the most part. This question came to me the other day though. Do you always have to start with I? Or could you start somewhere else? Or start at I and then play something lower instead of higher like I-IV <~~ How it goes up, is there a way to progress the other way?

I'm not sure if this makes much sense, but it's hard to explain.

you can go I IV down instead of up, once you hit I you can go anywhere. you dont have to start with I but you have to present it so you know that I is I

[QUOTE=Kilalues Guises]you can go I IV down instead of up, once you hit I you can go anywhere. you dont have to start with I but you have to present it so you know that I is I[/QUOTE]
Starting with modal jazz that doesn't hold true anymore, but generally speaking from bebop and before, and for most tradtional classical theory, that's correct. You don't even need to hit I per se - implying it is enough.

ok i have a question

is there any good theory site that have anythign that this one doesnt??

[url]http://musictheory.net/[/url]

if so plz post it

General theory? Jazz theory?

well im pretty good at general theory but dont know a damn thing about jazz theory (traids) <<< for some reason that is getting me, just cant grasp it so i just said ehh screw it if anyone can explain that

[QUOTE=corporatevictim]well im pretty good at general theory but dont know a damn thing about jazz theory (traids) <<< for some reason that is getting me, just cant grasp it so i just said ehh screw it if anyone can explain that[/QUOTE]

I would say triads are more of a general theory thing. I'm pretty sure they're mentioned in the site that you mentioned before. Just check out the introduction to chords lesson and the next few lessons after that one. All a triad is, is a somewhat fancy word for a chord that has 3 tones: A root, a third, and a fifth.

So.. many times ive heard guitarists and bassist say it doesnt get fun until you start playing in different positions of the scale. Now that ive gone through and learned a little theory, i still dont understand..wouldnt that be playing in different modes? or what do they mean??..:confused: :mad:

[QUOTE=joegog88]So.. many times ive heard guitarists and bassist say it doesnt get fun until you start playing in different positions of the scale. Now that ive gone through and learned a little theory, i still dont understand..wouldnt that be playing in different modes? or what do they mean??..:confused: :mad:[/QUOTE]

I'm pretty sure they mean that you can play an E scale from open E on an E string, or 12 on the E, or 7 on the A, those would all be different positions of a scale.

or maybe they mean modes, either way ive never heard anyone describe either of those as being tremendously fun

not fun i mean more colorful and adds flavor to the chords. :confused:
well i also have another question..Lets say my bands guitarist shows me a song he wrote in the key of C. the first couple measures are in Cmin. do i necessarily have to play it all in the Cmin scale or can i play in like minor third and stuff also? to mix it up some(Db). such as arpgeggioing up to C. ?
thanks

im not sure what you mean by play in minor third, but you can play whatever notes you want. c minor is just going to fit better under a c minor chord

[QUOTE=joegog88]not fun i mean more colorful and adds flavor to the chords. :confused:
well i also have another question..Lets say my bands guitarist shows me a song he wrote in the key of C. the first couple measures are in Cmin. do i necessarily have to play it all in the Cmin scale or can i play in like minor third and stuff also? to mix it up some(Db). such as arpgeggioing up to C. ?
thanks[/QUOTE]

Minor third? What exactly are you talking about? And what is "to mix it up some (Db)" mean? And it's "arpeggiating" not "arpgeggioing" :p

To me, it seems like you are just throwing around musical terms (or words resembling musical terms)... What are you trying to accomplish exactly?

[quote=joegog88]not fun i mean more colorful and adds flavor to the chords. :confused:
well i also have another question..Lets say my bands guitarist shows me a song he wrote in the key of C. the first couple measures are in Cmin. do i necessarily have to play it all in the Cmin scale or can i play in like minor third and stuff also? to mix it up some(Db). such as arpgeggioing up to C. ?
thanks[/quote]

That question honestly did not make any sense at all, but I'll try my best. If the song is in the Key of C, Cm is not in the key at all, so your best bet is to just arpeggiate the chord.

sorry if this isn't the right place for this, but i want to learn more scales. at this point in time i know Major, Harmonic Minor and Melodic Minor. Just wondering, is there a index of scale patterns around anywhere? it would prove very helpful

[QUOTE=joegog88]not fun i mean more colorful and adds flavor to the chords. :confused:
well i also have another question..Lets say my bands guitarist shows me a song he wrote in the key of C. the first couple measures are in Cmin. do i necessarily have to play it all in the Cmin scale or can i play in like minor third and stuff also? to mix it up some(Db). such as arpgeggioing up to C. ?
thanks[/QUOTE]


When you say a song is "in the key of", it means the major one, always. A song based around a Cmin chord at the tonic would be referred to as in the key of Eb, which is the relative major.

Saying "a song is in C" always means major, not minor, basically.

[QUOTE=EADG]When you say a song is "in the key of", it means the major one, always. A song based around a Cmin chord at the tonic would be referred to as in the key of Eb, which is the relative major.

Saying "a song is in C" always means major, not minor, basically.[/QUOTE]
Not true by any means. You can always say "in the key of C minor" (I realize that joegog didn't clarify this) and still be right. Yes, this will have the same [i]key signature[/i] as Eb major, but remember for every key signature you have both a major key and its parallel minor.

[QUOTE=HaVIC5]Not true by any means. You can always say "in the key of C minor" (I realize that joegog didn't clarify this) and still be right. Yes, this will have the same [i]key signature[/i] as Eb major, but remember for every key signature you have both a major key and its parallel minor.[/QUOTE]


You don't get what I'm saying. I mean, you CAN say "this song is in C minor". However, if you just say "this song is in C" and don't specify major or minor, it will be major.

So if your song was in C minor and you wanted to say the key signature without specifying major or minor you'd say "this is in Eb".


Yes?

[QUOTE=EADG]You don't get what I'm saying. I mean, you CAN say "this song is in C minor". However, if you just say "this song is in C" and don't specify major or minor, it will be major.

So if your song was in C minor and you wanted to say the key signature without specifying major or minor you'd say "this is in Eb".


Yes?[/QUOTE]
if the song was in c minor you woudlnt change it up so it was in its relative major. you would say it was in the key of c minor not eb major.

[QUOTE=Left Shoe]if the song was in c minor you woudlnt change it up so it was in its relative major. you would say it was in the key of c minor not eb major.[/QUOTE]


Still, you could say it was in Eb and you'd be correct.

[QUOTE=EADG]Still, you could say it was in Eb and you'd be correct.[/QUOTE]
...no. if you said that in front of a professional band they would all start with the one chord of the key you said, but you would play the 6th and youd lose the gig. thats kind of a sketchy example, but do you get what im saying?

[QUOTE=EADG]Still, you could say it was in Eb and you'd be correct.[/QUOTE]
Key /= key signature. It doesn't work that way.

[QUOTE=Left Shoe]...no. if you said that in front of a professional band they would all start with the one chord of the key you said, but you would play the 6th and youd lose the gig. thats kind of a sketchy example, but do you get what im saying?[/QUOTE]


No, I understand what you mean completely. But just because a song is in a certain key doesn't mean it has to start on that chord.

[QUOTE=HaVIC5]Key /= key signature. It doesn't work that way.[/QUOTE]


How so?

I don't understand what you mean.

When you say "play in the key of C major", that's something entirely different than "play in the key of A minor". They have the same key signature, sure. But they are two different keys.

Ok.. all I am trying to explain, is that if a person says "play in the key of C", you are to assume he means C major.

That guy said his song was in C but didn't specify that it was minor. I was trying to explain that he had to specify.


That's all.

Gotcha. :thumb:

okay, so i know a few scales, and am getting fairly good at using them for composing/playing and using the arpeggio's etc. but i want to know more

just wondering, is there a scales index anywhere? i just want the patterns, so yeah.

cheers

Google is your friend:
[url]http://www.angelfire.com/id/bass/[/url]
First result when I searched "bass scales".

[QUOTE=Akira]Google is your friend:
[url]http://www.angelfire.com/id/bass/[/url]
First result when I searched "bass scales".[/QUOTE]

cheers. i'll bookmark it, so i can come back to it whenever i need

[QUOTE=tomtom]cheers. i'll bookmark it, so i can come back to it whenever i need[/QUOTE]
those are wrong

[QUOTE=HaVIC5]When you say "play in the key of C major", that's something entirely different than "play in the key of A minor". They have the same key signature, sure. But they are two different keys.[/QUOTE]
ok now that confuses me, how is it different? because the modes are different?

[QUOTE=jaco jr]ok now that confuses me, how is it different? because the modes are different?[/QUOTE]


They have different overall tonality.

[QUOTE=jaco jr]ok now that confuses me, how is it different? because the modes are different?[/QUOTE]
No, the modes are the same. Like EADG said, they have a different overall tonality. The difference between A minor and C major lies in the tonal center, or the root note. Our job as bass players is to emphasize that particular note, A or C, in order to give it a major flavor or a minor flavor. The great beauty in this, of course, is that because we are the ones that control the tonal center of the piece, we can change back and forth depending on our whims. Power to the bass players.

[QUOTE=HaVIC5]No, the modes are the same. Like EADG said, they have a different overall tonality. The difference between A minor and C major lies in the tonal center, or the root note. Our job as bass players is to emphasize that particular note, A or C, in order to give it a major flavor or a minor flavor. The great beauty in this, of course, is that because we are the ones that control the tonal center of the piece, we can change back and forth depending on our whims. Power to the bass players.[/QUOTE]
ahhh ok i get it, now, although note wise they are no difference, the feel of a piece in C rather than in Am would be very different, and we have to basically make it sound like it should, major or minor?
i think thats right

[QUOTE=Kobaia]those are wrong[/QUOTE]
noticing ridiculous fingerings as well

[QUOTE=jaco jr]ahhh ok i get it, now, although note wise they are no difference, the feel of a piece in C rather than in Am would be very different, and we have to basically make it sound like it should, major or minor?
i think thats right[/QUOTE]


No, not necessarily the feel. Feel is more to do with the timing. I guess the easiesy way to describe it (without using theory) is, it changes the "mood" of the piece.

(And I know feel is a part of the mood too. So don't even try it.)


Yeah, it usually sounds "happier" in C and "sadder" in Am but not always. Sometimes it's not really either or somewhere in between.

Well, I don't know about big bands and what not because generally ensembles have sheetmusic, but think about a blues jam or open mic situation.

Half the band is under the impression the song is a 1-4-5 progression in Eb major, and the other half of the band thinks it's in C minor(I'm not entirely sure how blues progressions in minor keys work, but work with me on this one). So then at the end of 4 bars, the band hops to the 4th. Half the band hops to G# and the other hop to F?

[QUOTE=Jody LeCompte]Well, I don't know about big bands and what not because generally ensembles have sheetmusic, but think about a blues jam or open mic situation.

Half the band is under the impression the song is a 1-4-5 progression in Eb major, and the other half of the band thinks it's in C minor(I'm not entirely sure how blues progressions in minor keys work, but work with me on this one). So then at the end of 4 bars, the band hops to the 4th. Half the band hops to G# and the other hop to F?[/QUOTE]
*hiss* Ab*