Night guys. :wave:

Vince= The Masterdebater

Congratubations Vince. :thumb:

Talk tomorrow, guys.


EDIT: Gah, 6 bright red avatars in a row. :-/

[QUOTE=zeppelinfan2k3]Well, at the core of it, I believe if I asked you if, given the choice to have sweatshops, or not, based solely on your choice, you would say no. Thus you can't be genuinely happy because there are still things you would change. But I'm content to leave it there. I don't believe, and never will believe in genuine happiness, so there's no need for us to debate it since you do believe in it.[/QUOTE]

Of course I would say "no" to sweatshops. But I do know that if I decided to take action about it, I would simply get frustrated and upset at the lack of progress. And as a black man, I know a lot of about getting frustrated and upset over lack of progress.

Also, AH, seriously. You're overreacting. Although if you're gonna be like thsi every time we have a discussion, then so long.

Night :wave:

[QUOTE=Dr. Jake Destructo]Night guys. :wave:

Vince= The Masterdebater

Congratubations Vince. :thumb:

Talk tomorrow, guys.


EDIT: Gah, 6 bright red avatars in a row. :-/[/QUOTE]

or is it the masterbater lolmao

[QUOTE=Illmatic]Of course I would say "no" to sweatshops. But I do know that if I decided to take action about it, I would simply get frustrated and upset at the lack of progress. And as a black man, I know a lot of about getting frustrated and upset over lack of progress.

Also, AH, seriously. You're overreacting. Although if you're gonna be like thsi every time we have a discussion, then so long.[/QUOTE]
This was basically what I was getting at. Mainly differentiating between people like you, and people like me who would say yes to sweatshops without another thought.

I agree with the second half of this post essentially, and add: stop trying to be more emo than me :(

[QUOTE=zeppelinfan2k3]This was basically what I was getting at. Mainly differentiating between people like you, and people like me who would say yes to sweatshops without another thought.

I agree with the second half of this post essentially, and add: stop trying to be more emo than me :([/QUOTE]

I still don't see how something like this should change how you feel about people. After all, it's not as if I pretend to care about the folks in sweatshops and do nothing about it, is it?

[QUOTE=Illmatic]I still don't see how something like this should change how you feel about people. After all, it's not as if I pretend to care about the folks in sweatshops and do nothing about it, is it?[/QUOTE]
No it's worse, you do care and do nothing about it.

[QUOTE=madeyadams]Nuhuh. This is the first mouse I've seen since I've lived here. I dunno how the hell it got in.[/QUOTE]
Pfft.

You're overreacting.

[QUOTE=zeppelinfan2k3]No it's worse, you do care and do nothing about it.[/QUOTE]

I don't care, though.

[QUOTE=Illmatic]I don't care, though.[/QUOTE]
At your core you do. Otherwise if asked yay or nay to sweatshops you would say yay.

[QUOTE=madeyadams]It's gross. And it creeps me out knowing it could attack my feet at any given moment.[/QUOTE]
It's more scared of you than you are of it.

Finally spam is slowing down here.

[QUOTE=madeyadams]It's gross. And it creeps me out knowing it could attack my feet at any given moment.[/QUOTE]
Get a pot, scoop it up, put a lid on the pot, go outside, let it out of the pot.

Shouldn't take more than two minutes.

[QUOTE=zeppelinfan2k3]At your core you do. Otherwise if asked yay or nay to sweatshops you would say yay.[/QUOTE]

I think you're not reading me 100% correct.

And if it counts for anything, I'd vote "Yay" to sweatshops if only from a business standpoint.

And what zep said it true.

I'm guessing you're a bit more than 5 feet tall, it might be a few inches tall. It's like the friggin' Empire State Building compared to an average-sized person.

[QUOTE=madeyadams]I don't know where it scampered off to. I tried locking my cats in each room for like 10 mins to see if they could find it. No result. It could sneak back into my room in the middle of the night and eat my face.[/QUOTE]

It's a [b][size=200]MOUSE[/b][/size], for Christ's sake. Women.

[QUOTE=madeyadams]I don't know where it scampered off to. I tried locking my cats in each room for like 10 mins to see if they could find it. No result. It could sneak back into my room in the middle of the night and eat my face.[/QUOTE]
Where'd you see it last?

If one of your cats find it, they'll bring it to you, and it'll want a reward for it.

And yeah, it's a mouse, not a rat.

[QUOTE=madeyadams]Shut up. It's dirty and diseased. It's like a hooker. Except smaller and .. hairier. Except some hookers are pretty hairy.[/QUOTE]

It's a MOUSE.

[QUOTE=Illmatic]I think you're not reading me 100% correct.

And if it counts for anything, I'd vote "Yay" to sweatshops if only from a business standpoint.[/QUOTE]
But from a personal one you wouldn't. If you didn't care about them, you wouldn't care that they're suffering. You wouldn't care about the people who died in the tsunami, anything like that. 9/11. People suffering would not affect you unless you cared about them on some level, regardless of how small.

[QUOTE=madeyadams]It ran down the hallway and disappeared. I have no clue where it could be now.[/QUOTE]
Keep in mind it's running away with the fact that it's scared as s[size=2]h[/size]it of you.

[QUOTE=madeyadams]Shut up. You guys are queers.[/QUOTE]
Queers would be afraid of the mouse /stereotype

[QUOTE=zeppelinfan2k3]But from a personal one you wouldn't. If you didn't care about them, you wouldn't care that they're suffering. You wouldn't care about the people who died in the tsunami, anything like that. 9/11. People suffering would not affect you unless you cared about them on some level, regardless of how small.[/QUOTE]

To be 100%, I don't care either way about those things, but I say I do because I fear what might happen if I say "No, I don't care about them". That's how our society works.

[QUOTE=madey]Shut up. You guys are queers.[/QUOTE]

At least we're not afraid of a fu[size=2]cking mouse[/size].

NP: Twista feat. Cee-Lo - Hope

Well, I'm gonna throw something in. Maybe it'll be ignored maybe it won't. I think I'm generally (maybe not totally) in line with what Ray is saying, and Vince, hear me out on this because it shows that you're partially right and that he's partially right. I find the idea of sweatshops deplorable, but at the same time, it is a problem that has about as little effect on me in the present moment as a retirement plan failure. I do not work in a sweatshop and know no one that does, and so what I think I'm saying "no" to when the sweatshops thing comes up is the idea of sweatshops. The IDEA of a place where money-grubbing corporations make children in underdeveloped countries work long, hard hours for pitifully low wages offends my human decency. But to me, it's really just an idea: the line of reality stops there. I only have a vague notion of it as reality: I KNOW it's real, but I don't REALLY know it INNATELY. If I knew it innately I would be moved to strive for change. But the simple fact is that my life is easier not thinking about it, and so I won't. I'll unconsciously pretend that it doesn't exist, rather like I do for the racial problems we still have in this country (which is by the way a rather severe problem that I am working to rectify).

So I do care that sweatshops exist in that the idea of them offends me and strikes me as wrong, but it doesn't directly affect my life and I haven't seen it with my own eyes, so I'm not innately, internally moved enough to do anything about it. It's a rather deplorable psychological state to be in, but I'm in it and so are a lot of Americans, I think. I'm trying to fix it, but part of me will always take my privilages as an American for granted. It is just something that we can only hope to outgrow or conquer. But it doesn't mean that we don't care: what it really means is that we don't really KNOW.

[QUOTE=Illmatic]To be 100%, I don't care either way about those things, but I say I do because I fear what might happen if I say "No, I don't care about them". That's how our society works.
[/QUOTE]
Nothing happens if you're confident with yourself. You say you don't care and people think less of you, sure, but at least you can think higher of yourself not hiding behind a PC facade.

[QUOTE=zeppelinfan2k3]Nothing happens if you're confident with yourself. You say you don't care and people think less of you, sure, but at least you can think higher of yourself not hiding behind a PC facade.[/QUOTE]

Not from my experiences. After coming out and saying that I didn't care about the people who died in the tsunami, I got hit with a barrage of "HOW COULD YOU SAY THAT YOU'RE SO SELFISH AND INSENSITIVE" comments from just about everyone I knew. It reaches a point where I say I do care just to avoid a conflict (and yet, look what happened to this thread...the lesson, as always: if you don't care about something, say it with pride).

[QUOTE=Cain]Well, I'm gonna throw something in. Maybe it'll be ignored maybe it won't. I think I'm generally (maybe not totally) in line with what Ray is saying, and Vince, hear me out on this because it shows that you're partially right and that he's partially right. I find the idea of sweatshops deplorable, but at the same time, it is a problem that has about as little effect on me in the present moment as a retirement plan failure. I do not work in a sweatshop and know no one that does, and so what I think I'm saying "no" to when the sweatshops thing comes up is the idea of sweatshops. The IDEA of a place where money-grubbing corporations make children in underdeveloped countries work long, hard hours for pitifully low wages offends my human decency. But to me, it's really just an idea. I have a vague notion of it as reality: I KNOW it's real, but I don't REALLY know it INNATELY. If I knew it innately I would be moved to strive for change. But the simple fact is that my life is easier not thinking about it, and so I won't. I'll unconsciously pretend that it doesn't exist, rather like I do for the racial problems we still have in this country (which is by the way a rather severe problem that I am working to rectify).

So I do care that sweatshops exist in that the idea of them offends me and strikes me as wrong, but it doesn't directly affect my life and I haven't seen it with my own eyes, so I'm not innately, internally moved enough to do anything about it. It's a rather deplorable psychological state to be in, but I'm in it and so are a lot of Americans, I think. I'm trying to fix it, but part of me will always take my privilages as an American for granted. It is just something that we can only hope to outgrow or conquer. But it doesn't mean that we don't care: what it really means is that we don't really KNOW.[/QUOTE]
No I agree with you entirely. Except that I find that sort of willing ignorance deplorable and offensive. Sort of like not being bothered to think because someone else can do it for you. I know most Americans exist like this, but I am unwilling to be satisfied coexisting in such willful idiocity :)

Vince where do you live?

[QUOTE=Illmatic]Not from my experiences. After coming out and saying that I didn't care about the people who died in the tsunami, I got hit with a barrage of "HOW COULD YOU SAY THAT YOU'RE SO SELFISH AND INSENSITIVE" comments from just about everyone I knew.[/QUOTE]
Right. I felt better hearing that because I knew I believed it and that I had thought about it. Everyone is so stuck on the status quo, but if you are willing to fight it you will feel more liberated not bottling yourself.

[QUOTE=Otherside]Vince where do you live?[/QUOTE]
Arizona.

[QUOTE=zeppelinfan2k3]Arizona.[/QUOTE]

ah k.

[QUOTE=zeppelinfan2k3]Nothing happens if you're confident with yourself. You say you don't care and people think less of you, sure, but at least you can think higher of yourself not hiding behind a PC facade.[/QUOTE]

I suppose, but political correctness, while taken to stupid extremes very often, is still a healthy thing to try practicing. The goal of every person that doesn't care about something that offends human decency should be to start caring about it: that's my goal, at least. Right now I'm working on my tendency to racially stereotype and to not care about racial problems or pretend unconsciously that they don't exist. I do it: I still know that it's wrong and that I shouldn't. Political correctness is for me a way to try and care about something that I don't care about. It hinders progress to say "**** it" to everything that you WOULD say "**** it" to: a better way is to work on understanding and innately knowing the problem so you can actually start caring enough to do something.

Oh. I forgot to go to bed.

Now, I must leave.

[QUOTE=Dr. Jake Destructo]Oh. I forgot to go to bed.

Now, I must leave.[/QUOTE]

I think you have short-term memory loss.

Another note on political correctness: it IS a useful tool for both self-preservation and for avoiding offending somebody, after all. And there IS a way to admit your political incorrectness in a more sensitive way than saying "I don't care" flat-out, and that is the way change can be falicitated: admitting your faults in a sensitive way so that people don;t just outright attack you, but instead they help you to work through that fault.

I don't own a Yacht.. :upset: When was the name changed?

[QUOTE=Eitri Is Berserk]I don't own a Yacht.. :upset: When was the name changed?[/QUOTE]

Sometime earlier today.

[QUOTE=Eitri Is Berserk]I don't own a Yacht.. :upset: When was the name changed?[/QUOTE]

A few pages back. You should read up on what's been happening.. it's very... controversial...

[QUOTE=zeppelinfan2k3]Right. I felt better hearing that because I knew I believed it and that I had thought about it. Everyone is so stuck on the status quo, but if you are willing to fight it you will feel more liberated not bottling yourself.[/QUOTE]

I usually am the kind of person who believes and speaks on the contrary without caring, but with issues like the tsunami and sweatshops and such, I just decide to keep my mouth shut when I probably shouldn't.

[QUOTE=Cain]I suppose, but political correctness, while taken to stupid extremes very often, is still a healthy thing to try practicing. The goal of every person that doesn't care about something that offends human decency should be to start caring about it: that's my goal, at least. Right now I'm working on my tendency to racially stereotype and to not care about racial problems or pretend unconsciously that they don't exist. I do it: I still know that it's wrong and that I shouldn't. Political correctness is for me a way to try and care about something that I don't care about. It hinders progress to say "**** it" to everything that you WOULD say "**** it" to: a better way is to work on understanding and innately knowing the problem so you can actually start caring enough to do something.[/QUOTE]
See, I actually don't care less about human problems though. I have given up on the human race and so all the things you suggest I care about are, to me, pointless. If I wanted to fix something it would involve mass extermination of the race.