If it helps the healthcare system is pretty diabolical i couldnt even begin to say whats wrong

[QUOTE=Left Face Down;17899490]
Yeah, they're getting taxed using a census. Just admit it, you I gave you the definition. [/quote]

Nope, getting taxed the same way the federal government taxes you now.

[quote]

Yeah, it is called their job. That and I'm pretty sure the majority of hospitals are in the PRIVATE sector and with-hold the right to reject any one they want to reject. Even as a public service, they don't have to treat you unless you need immediate care. [/quote]

And false. Because hospitals in their very nature are money losing institutions, it is a necessity that they are state supported/assisted. Also, it is illegal to without treatment if you need it.



[quote]So now WE the taxpayers pay for those who make less than a certain amount of money each year despite if they do or do not have health insurance. WE the taxpayers will also be paying for it if the can or can not pay for it on their own. [/quote]

You already do that. Extending coverage to the greatest number of people will lead to a decrease in the total population paying for everyone's emergency room visits because now they can see a proper hospital.

[quote]Not even mentioning WE the taxpayers will be paying for the illegal aliens trip to the hospital who don't even pay taxes.[/quote]

Good old fashioned xenophibia. 6-7 million Illegal immigrants pay about 50-60 billion dollars in taxes a year.




[quote]Well this is wrong as there will be a lot of people that get free health insurance cause they don't have a job/good job. [/quote]

What else would you have them do? Is paying a little more really worse than people dying on the street?



[quote]They are collecting them on the basis of a census. Which is against the 16th Amendment. Which is why you see Obama and them using the term "penalty" instead of "tax". As the 16th amendment applies to taxes. [/quote]

Again, find an independent 1st party source to support that and maybe that claim can carry some water.

[QUOTE=Modern Iconoclast;17899505]
Taxpayers WILL NOT pay for the healthcare of other people with this bill. They will either buy insurance or pay the tax, whether they have a job or not, if they don't they go to jail end of story. Illegal aliens ARE NOT covered by this bill, there are specific provisions in it for that, you'd know that if you read it..[/QUOTE]

From a good old left-wing news organization just for you:

source: [url]http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20000846-503544.html[/url]
[QUOTE=CBS]
Paying for the Plan:

* Medicare Payroll tax on investment income -- Starting in 2012, the Medicare Payroll Tax will be expanded to include unearned income. That will be a 3.8 percent tax on investment income for families making more than $250,000 per year ($200,000 for individuals).
* Excise Tax -- Beginning in 2018, insurance companies will pay a 40 percent excise tax on so-called "Cadillac" high-end insurance plans worth over $27,500 for families ($10,200 for individuals). Dental and vision plans are exempt and will not be counted in the total cost of a family's plan.

*Tanning Tax -- 10 percent excise tax on indoor tanning services.
[/QUOTE]

Then how it will probably go drastically wrong. Of course CBS wouldn't tell us how it could go wrong, as they are left wing.

Source: [url]http://interact.stltoday.com/blogzone/the-platform/published-editorials/2010/01/cadillac-health-insurance-tax-hurts-the-middle-class/[/url]

[QUOTE=STLtoday] ...the tax is based on the cost of insurance premiums, not the richness of its benefits. The Senate plan would impose a 40 percent tax on premiums that exceed $23,000 a year for family coverage. But insurance costs vary by geography, so the tax would fall most heavily on certain parts of the country.
The Midwest is one of them. Average group health insurance premiums here are the nation’s second-highest. For HMOs and high-deductible health savings accounts, two popular types of insurance, our prices lead the nation.
Prices are higher for police officers, firefighters, construction workers and those who work in manufacturing because their risk of injury is higher.
Average premiums in the Midwest already are about $13,500 — not including dental, vision or flexible spending plans that also would count toward the cap. They’ve more than doubled over the past decade.[/QUOTE]


Now for the source which you are going to call B.S., Fox News.

Source: [url]http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/03/11/senate-health-care-raises-taxes-middle-class-analysis-finds/[/url]

[QUOTE=FoxNews]
A nonpartisan study is casting new doubt on President Obama's campaign pledge not to raise taxes on the middle class.

The Senate health care bill crucial to saving President Obama's signature domestic initiative will hit the wallets of a quarter of all Americans making less than $200,000 per year, according to an analysis by the nonpartisan Joint Tax Committee that assessed the way the bill would hit taxpayers directly through new taxes and fees and indirectly through taxes levied on health care providers and passed on to consumers.

The committee also determined that the bill would subsidized insurance premiums for 7 percent of taxpayers -- about 13 million people -- while some 73 million people would face higher costs from the new fees and taxes...

"For every family that gets some benefit from this program, in other words, a premium subsidy, three families are going to get a tax increase and those three families obviously include the bulk of people you'd call middle class America," Sen. Chuck Grassley, R-Iowa, told Fox News...

But the projection could be undermined by future spending needed to administer parts of the bill, including up to $10 billion for the IRS, up to $20 billion for Health and Human Services and up to $50 billion for "grant programs and other provisions."

The new analysis highlighting the tax burdens of the Senate bill could undercut the president's push.

There's a long list of taxes in the Senate bill, including some paid directly by consumers. Other taxes are on providers who will simply pass it on to consumers.

"It has imposed a lot of taxes and fees on the drug companies, on the medical device manufacturers, on the insurance companies," said economist Doug Holtz Eakin. "All of that is going to show up in higher sticker prices for those that have health insurance.

And then there is the proposed tax on high-cost insurance plans, which was pushed back but will result in significantly higher tax payments by tens of millions of Americans who have generous insurance plans through their workplace.

Also, there would be a brand new Medicare tax on dividends and capital gains, which haven't been taxed before.
[/QUOTE]


THEN back to CBS just for kicks, because you'd be crazy to tell me the companies aren't going to pass these prices on to the citizens.

Source: [url]http://abcnews.go.com/Business/Tax/wirestory?id=10144820&page=3[/url]

[QUOTE=CBS]
Projected revenues from the tax increases over the next decade, according to the nonpartisan Joint Committee on Taxation:

— The new tax on high-cost insurance plans, $32 billion.

— A fee on the makers and importers of brand-name drugs, $27 billion.

— An excise tax on the makers and importers of certain medical devices, $20 billion.

— An annual fee on health insurance providers, starting in 2014, $60 billion.

— The repeal of a tax loophole that could allow paper manufacturers to get tax credits for generating alternative fuel in the paper making process, $24 billion.
[/QUOTE]


Then lets hear from a Dem.

Source: [url]http://blogs.abcnews.com/thenote/2009/09/dem-senator-warns-of-big-big-tax-on-middle-class-in-baucus-bill.html[/url]

[QUOTE=CBS]
The West Virginia Democrat worries, however, that a lot of middle class workers, like the coal miners in his state, will end up facing "a big, big tax" under the Baucus bill because they currently enjoy generous employer-provided health care benefits which they receive tax free.

Referring to Baucus, Rockefeller said, "He should understand that (his proposal) means that virtually every single coal miner is going to have a big, big tax put on them because the tax will be put on the company and the company will immediately pass it down and lower benefits because they are self insured, most of them, because they are larger. They will pass it down, lower benefits, and probably this will mean higher premiums for coal miners who are getting very good health care benefits for a very good reason. That is, like steelworkers and others, they are doing about the most dangerous job that can be done in America."[/QUOTE]


Then I guess I'll end it with this. Which flat out says that those who cannot get a plan will get the money from the States. The government doesn't have an "income" as business do, it has taxes. So how are people not paying for other people's health care again?

Source: [url]http://www.newsweek.com/id/235296[/url]

[QUOTE=Newsweek]
[B]What about for people who are unemployed or underemployed who have had major health problems?[/B]

Within six months of enacting the law, every state would have to set up a temporary "high-risk pool" for people who have been uninsured, and who have been very sick, and who cannot get a policy. You'll have to be able to show that you've got a condition that prohibits you from buying insurance, or that you've recently become uninsured.
[/QUOTE]

// Double post because I went over the 10k character limit.

[QUOTE=JoshIsNumber3;17899842]Nope, getting taxed the same way the federal government taxes you now.
[/QUOTE]

No, this is wrong. You see, if you don't have health insurance you get taxed. If you do have health insurance, you don't get taxed. If you have too good of health insurance, you will be taxed after 2018 for that too.

The Government doesn't tax us for anything similar to this. Medicare, Social Security, and good old income tax are all Government run programs. Health insurance, at least for right now, in the United States is still mostly private.

10Th amendment says that all rights not given to the Government in the Constitution are in the hands of the state and the people. The Government is not given the right to tax you if you don't buy a good from a private company. Which is why you have almost 1/3 of the states with their D.A.'s saying this violates state sovereignty.

[QUOTE=JoshIsNumber3;17899842]it is illegal to without treatment if you need it.
[/QUOTE]

Well then I guess where I live is just rotten to the bone. I've seen people get rejected for non-life threatening things because they didn't have insurance.


[QUOTE=JoshIsNumber3;17899842]
You already do that. Extending coverage to the greatest number of people will lead to a decrease in the total population paying for everyone's emergency room visits because now they can see a proper hospital.
[/QUOTE]

Non sequitur, by a mile. You do realize that people's premiums are how insurance companies pay for their part of the bill, right? So you can't say that the cost will go down for a fact, but speculation falls more so on the side of costs going up. In 2014 it doesn't matter what you have you can just go get health insurance. Which will add all the people with chronic diseases to the bill for the health insurance companies. The big question is, will there be enough people who aren't sick to balance this out? Neither of us could say definitively.

[QUOTE=JoshIsNumber3;17899842]
Good old fashioned xenophibia. 6-7 million Illegal immigrants pay about 50-60 billion dollars in taxes a year.
[/QUOTE]

Well if illegal aliens are getting legal jobs in the U.S., taking jobs away from citizens. As well as being able to pay taxes with out people finding out they are illegals. Then you just saved me time trying to explain to Modern Iconoclast that illegal aliens will be able to get health care. As the bill only deals with them buying it, if the company gives it to the employees that is a BIG loop-hole.



[QUOTE=JoshIsNumber3;17899842]
What else would you have them do? Is paying a little more really worse than people dying on the street?
[/QUOTE]
Why would they be dying on the streets if Hospitals have to care for them like you said? "Social Justice" and "Redistribution of Wealth" are really worse than people dying on the streets.


[QUOTE=JoshIsNumber3;17899842]
Again, find an independent 1st party source to support that and maybe that claim can carry some water.[/QUOTE]

You need a better source than the Constitution of the United States of America and Bill of Rights; that is a new one. Sorry, I think that qualifies as a "independent 1st party source."

whoa full on political battle here in the lod

[quote]Well if illegal aliens are getting legal jobs in the U.S., taking jobs away from citizens. As well as being able to pay taxes with out people finding out they are illegals. Then you just saved me time trying to explain to Modern Iconoclast that illegal aliens will be able to get health care. As the bill only deals with them buying it, if the company gives it to the employees that is a BIG loop-hole. [/quote]

Amazing this is the way that it does not work. The reason that day laborers and farm hands are so prevalent in the illegal worker community is because those jobs existed before hand. Also, these taxes are filed under a pseudonym s or assumed names, with no expectation of receiving any direct benefits for paying these taxes. Illegal citizens can get health care by going to the emergency room, but their taxes foot a large part of the debts that are racked up.

[quote]
Why would they be dying on the streets if Hospitals have to care for them like you said? "Social Justice" and "Redistribution of Wealth" are really worse than people dying on the streets. [/quote]

Because hospitals are required to treat and stabilize to a certain degree, not required to keep a patient for an extended period of time. They stabilize you to the point where you can live outside the hospital for a certain amount of time and they usher you out. People who have chronic illnesses can be stabilized but that does nothing for actually treating with preventive care their ailments. Very literally, you can die when you leave the hospital because you cannot afford quality care hence the importance of insurance companies not discriminating due to preexisting conditions.

[quote]
You need a better source than the Constitution of the United States of America and Bill of Rights; that is a new one. Sorry, I think that qualifies as a "independent 1st party source."[/QUOTE]

Like I said, people have been arguing over the text of the Constitution since before it was even drafted. The audacity that you have thinking that you've gotten to the point of it and you know the real meaning of what it says, with almost no real education in study of politics, is surreal.

RL maybe just spam the thread again and they'll forget about it

Josh, show me your law degree and I'll shut up.

[QUOTE=viciouscycle;17900161]RL maybe just spam the thread again and they'll forget about it[/QUOTE]

:lol::p:lol:

[QUOTE=Left Face Down;17900162]Josh, show me your law degree and I'll shut up.[/QUOTE]

I concede that you make logical fallacies.

Hey, you have a really good chance of convincing him to change his ways, so it is definitely worth your time to keep trying.

LFD actually said the words "Social justice is worse than people dying on the streets", so tbh Josh you could walk away with your head held high on this one

This is why I want to move to Canada and live in a log cabin in da woods with an SKS.

Gimme the internet and a truck and I'll come get supplies once a month.

[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v693/the_mop/KerrehKing.jpg[/IMG]

[QUOTE=The_Mop;17900576][IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v693/the_mop/KerrehKing.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]

[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v607/coleman_phoenix/washboardforum.jpg[/IMG]


Also, lulz LFD THEY TOOK OUR JERBZ!

This thread is now about washboards.

[IMG]http://www.davidholt.com/music/images/washboard72.jpg[/IMG]

[QUOTE=Sad But True;17900609][IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v607/coleman_phoenix/washboardforum.jpg[/IMG]


Also, lulz LFD THEY TOOK OUR JERBZ![/QUOTE]

quoted for pagewn'd

[url]http://soundcloud.com/joshisnumber3/breathe[/url]

lol solo

[QUOTE=The_Mop;17900576][IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v693/the_mop/KerrehKing.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]

lol awesome

how does soundcloud work? it links to somewhere else?

bending is out of tune, and you slid up to a bad note, I'm sure you know this.
Chill song though I like, maybe change the drums up a bit

soundcloud is a hosting service.

bending out of tune makes be cringe

soundcloud is the new soundclick i believe

also wtf with washboard shizzle

[img]http://capinaremos.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/fuu3.jpg[/img]

so true

My old guitar teacher has a nice video oon youtube:

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onKrvopaHbE&feature=related[/url]

That's all improv btw. Also, wanna sound like Steely Dan much. I don't know why he doesn't play his Parker Fly in the vids, instead of his tele. It's a nice tele mind.

[url]http://soundcloud.com/viciouscycle/crossover[/url]

[QUOTE=AG;17902419]My old guitar teacher has a nice video oon youtube:

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onKrvopaHbE&feature=related[/url]

That's all improv btw. Also, wanna sound like Steely Dan much. I don't know why he doesn't play his Parker Fly in the vids, instead of his tele. It's a nice tele mind.[/QUOTE]

Sweet tone! My former teacher also has a nice one, shreddin' on a baroque lute [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iIANAfU2cS4[/url]

hey guys need your advice. i need a decent anti-virus program that is free until i can afford something better.

[url]http://www.microsoft.com/security_essentials/[/url]

sup guys.

i use avg.

stfu computer nerds i dont care, i'm gonna keep using avg.

mnemonic is defensive of his AVG. I think he feels insecure about his Anti-Virus.

lol thanks guys

I use AVG.

When I rebuild my computer I doubt I'll install any AVS. Prolly just a half decent firewall and then a spyware util.

Today I played with the slingbow with my Dad. It'll pierce through both sides of a biscuit tin at 15yrds. I also made an amazing flukey 45yrd shot into my 6"x12" target with a crosswind. I was by myself though and noone saw. /upsetface

Anyways, imma get this for my birthday:

[IMG]http://i718.photobucket.com/albums/ww187/aidancowen/aidanknife.jpg[/IMG]


So hawt. If you have to rely on one knife to do every task, it's this one.

You call that a knife...

This

[img]http://richardwiseman.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/spoon.jpg[/img]

is a knife

AG who are you going to knife with that knife

[IMG]http://i.somethingawful.com/u/kewpuh/ww04-04-10/wf-06.gif[/IMG]

wat

[QUOTE=Bruce E Kinesis;17904954]AG who are you going to knife with that knife[/QUOTE]

The best thing about a Khukri is that it has 3 seperate blade profiles;

The curved area is very sharp, allowing for detailed cutting

The thickest part has a profile suitable for chopping and batoning wood

The tip of the blade has a profile suitable for push cutting or slicing.

Which makes it a great utility blade. It would be a rather silly choice as a weapon.

[QUOTE=Left Face Down;17904687]mnemonic is defensive of his AVG. I think he feels insecure about his Anti-Virus.[/QUOTE]

:upset:

AG are you basically telling me that you're going to use it for whittling sticks

I once installed norton to a PC I was about to take apart (can't remember why now) - it was a fairly old version at the time and I didn't update the virus definitions - and it found a virus that AVG hadn't recognised for months, with constant updates.

Now as far as I'm concerned, Norton is pretty much the shittest antivirus you can get, not even considering if it's a few years behind in terms of virus definitions, but even THAT could spot a virus AVG willfully checked and moved on. Since, I've never trusted AVG.

NOD 32's supposed to be the best antivirus out there, and it's pretty cheap too. I got it a while back but I'm not really stupid enough to stumble upon viruses easily, so I can't really tell you how quickly it can act on these things XD

Any one familiar, or know a web site, which gives you instructions on how to swap out the wires on a humbucker? I know I've read how to before, but I can't remember where I found it. The damn like 26 gauge wire on the stock ibanez pickups sucks balls I want to swap it out for 22 gauge like comes on after-markets from SD or DiMarzio.


Singles is easy, as the joints are out in the open. I just remember pickups having some trick to them or some annoyance.