A band obviously has to have talent, but for the most part, drugs seem to either help or hurt. Usually they help the band make more interesting music, but hurt them in the long run with health-effects. I think The Beatles are the best example of drugs positive influence, as drugs led to them expanding their minds and trying new things. This led to them writing real personal lyrics and exploring new sounds such as the sitar. The Beatles wouldn't have gone anywhere without talent, but drugs helped them get the most out of their talent IMO. It's similar to steroids in baseball, look at Barry Bonds. He was a fantastic player before the steroids, still an MVP, but the steroids made him pretty much unbeatable. The only difference is that taking drugs isn't cheating.

This concludes class rock drug discussion and how it plays a role in music #987535827584

Wouldn't you say that drugs have a negative impact cause they end artists carees prematurely? Such as Hendrix, or perhaps Bon Scott.

[QUOTE=Schyma]This is coming from the biggest Dead Head in the forum^ :lol:[/QUOTE]

Yes, and from one who realizes how drug have both set the band back, and brought them forward in some cases.


[QUOTE][B]It's the inspiration they draw from drug that makes good music.[/B]

Edit: If it weren't for LSD you wouldn't have Jerry Garcia to praise and you probably wouldn't have any Jam Bands to listin to because Jam Rock wouldn't exsist.[/QUOTE]

No, you are wrong, and ignorant on the subject. The Grateful Dead never really gained praise for their use of LSD from the public; who would follow a group for 30 years just because they do LSD?. It had only brought Garcia and them into Acid Tests and Merry Prankster events. They gained praise because of their music, which wasn't written while on drugs nor about drugs (for the most part). Even when they struck fame by playing with the Merry Pranksters; Ken Kesey wouldn't want them around if they continuosly played while tripping - So they didn't. Besides what really set them off continently was their free concerts at Golden Gate Park and their apperance at Monterey, and then Live/Dead, Workingman's Dead and American Beauty.

And Jam Bands are not based upon drug usage; they do not derive from the Grateful Dead and Allman Brother's use of drugs. Jam Bands came out of the groups' influence and improvisation ideas; I thought that was quite obvious.

As for the bold, I don't even think that makes sense. LSD doesn't produce melodies, compositions, harmonies or even musical talent. An LSD experience would provide a writing topic (maybe), and of course they usually did not write about drug experiences.

I really like how you are taking offense to my comment though. And then countering idiotically. Yea, a couple of your response really rank up their with your comparison of Easter and 4:20, aswell as your break down of "The Christian Life", keep up the good work :thumb:.

[QUOTE=BassMasterMike88]Wouldn't you say that drugs have a negative impact cause they end artists carees prematurely? Such as Hendrix, or perhaps Bon Scott.[/QUOTE]

bon died from too much drinking. But yes, it's a negitive when someone dies from all of the drugs.

[QUOTE=rock not roll]This concludes class rock drug discussion and how it plays a role in music #987535827584[/QUOTE]


Actually it is only #287352098357

The other 700687536759 had nothing to do with Classic Rock

true.

[QUOTE=Walrus Gumboot]Actually it is only #287352098357

The other 700687536759 had nothing to do with Classic Rock[/QUOTE]

Yea, there have been a bunch of drug discussions in here since I joined... So Cream's good...

/lame attempt at turning discussion back onto CR.

Is anyone going to moedown this year?

What's moedown?
Anyway, it just occurred to me how muc good music has been produced because of Pattie Boyd/ Harrison/ Clapton. Layla, Bell Bottom Blues, Something, While My Guitar Gently Weeps, Wonderful Tonight... all love songs written about her.

She was hot, I don't blame them for writing songs about her.

[QUOTE=Badmoon]I really like how you are taking offense to my comment though. And then countering idiotically. Yea, a couple of your response really rank up their with your comparison of Easter and 4:20, aswell as your break down of "The Christian Life", keep up the good work :thumb:.[/QUOTE]

Dem is fightin' words.

( :p )

[QUOTE=lunch998]Dem is fightin' words.[/QUOTE]

Do you agree with him? Do you think their music would be pointless and terrible if drugs had never stepped into their career? All the reference to literature, christianity/religion/bible/spiruality, and old western topics are irrelevant, aswell as the great songwriting, solos, Root influences and improvisation right? :rolleyes:

Do you believe if it weren't for drugs, the Grateful Dead and Jerry Garcia would be nothing, and Jam Bands would hnot exist?

No, I agree with you. I was just trying to lighten the mood.

Badmoon is such a bully :lol:

moedown is a thing the band moe. does every year at Snow Ridge in NY, this year early Spetember. There are other acts, but I can't remeber them now. I think it's 3-day event

sounds fun.

You said "Spetember" :D

Typos are a funny thing indeed.

[QUOTE=rock not roll]sounds fun.

You said "Spetember" :D

Typos are a funny thing indeed.[/QUOTE]

Wow, that was the most ridiculous typo I have had all week

...except when I accidentally wrote "excrement" instead of "experiment" in a Bio Lab

[QUOTE=Badmoon]Do you agree with him? Do you think their music would be pointless and terrible if drugs had never stepped into their career? All the reference to literature, christianity/religion/bible/spiruality, and old western topics are irrelevant, aswell as the great songwriting, solos, Root influences and improvisation right?

Do you believe if it weren't for drugs, the Grateful Dead and Jerry Garcia would be nothing, and Jam Bands would hnot exist?[/QUOTE]
Another arguement with Tom Brooks.....how fun. :rolleyes:

From my understandings the Grateful Dead got their fame from the Acid tests and without fame the Grateful Dead wouldn't of had the influence they did on the rest of the music scene. Thus Jam rock would not exist. I think you are misunderstanding me here. I'm not saying they could not have made great music without drugs because this was not my point. My point was they could not have won the fame they did without the drug. It was the acid tests that got their name out there and without acid the acid tests would also not exist. Right? Excuse me if you misunderstood.
[QUOTE=Badmoon]I really like how you are taking offense to my comment though. And then countering idiotically. Yea, a couple of your response really rank up their with your comparison of Easter and 4:20, aswell as your break down of "The Christian Life", keep up the good work .[/QUOTE]
Drop it. I hate discussing religion with loonies like you because you carry it to a real extreme. :rolleyes:

so true. badmoon and his god, I mean like wtf?

Clapton is god! :thumb:

[QUOTE=Schyma]Another arguement with Tom Brooks.....how fun. :rolleyes:

From my understandings the Grateful Dead got their fame from the Acid tests and without fame the Grateful Dead wouldn't of had the influence they did on the rest of the music scene. Thus Jam rock would not exist. I think you are misunderstanding me here. I'm not saying they could not have made great music without drugs because this was not my point. My point was they could not have won the fame they did without the drug. It was the acid tests that got their name out there and without acid the acid tests would also not exist. Right? Excuse me if you misunderstood.[/QUOTE]

Well for one, it is impossible to predict what would have happened if the Grateful Dead did not participate in the Acid Tests. But to claim that there influence would have not spread and that they would have lacked fame is most likely incorrect. To begin with, the Grateful Dead did not participate in the Acid Tests, The Warlocks did. And I think you are slightly overexaggerating the importance and influence of the Acid Tests, but most certainly overexaggerating The Warlocks' importance at the Acid Tests; there weren't many Tests, and the band was rarely the main focus (as Jerry once said) occasionally they wouldn't play for longer than five minutes.

But what gave the Grateful Dead their fame and exposed them was their constant playing. They were the house band at the Big Beat Club, and several of them were regulars in the Coffee House scene (Which alone would get their name out). They would perform free concerts at Golden Gate Park, where big names like Allen Ginsburg, Neil Casady, Ken Kesey and even Timothy Leary were present. Drugs would be delt by people like Owsely Stanley, but the main focus was the music at those concerts (Not a Kesey Acid Test), even though the big San Franciscan names and writers would usually draw people in; people went for the music. The Dead, Jefferson Airplane and Big Brother would all play.

The Grateful Dead then performed at Monterey Pop Festival, where many acts finally got a break. Jimi Hendrix, Big Brother, Jefferson Airplane, The Who, the Grateful Dead, etc - each of those bands' fame was greatly hightened after that showing.

So, finally what I think. Drugs played a role in the Grateful Dead's life; it's importance in their fame is overexaggerated, however their usage is not. The Grateful Dead would have certainly grasped fame without Acid Tests and drugs, maybe not as much, but there are factors that played a large role. It would make much more sense to state that the Grateful Dead would not be famous or anything without San Francisco.

[QUOTE]Drop it. I hate discussing religion with loonies like you because you carry it to a real extreme. :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]

Religion is extreme and serious, and should be taken extremely serious. I take my fate as a human being extremely serious.

[QUOTE=Schyma]From my understandings the Grateful Dead got their fame from the Acid tests and without fame the Grateful Dead wouldn't of had the influence they did on the rest of the music scene. Thus Jam rock would not exist. I think you are misunderstanding me here. I'm not saying they could not have made great music without drugs because this was not my point. My point was they could not have won the fame they did without the drug. It was the acid tests that got their name out there and without acid the acid tests would also not exist. Right? Excuse me if you misunderstood.[/QUOTE]

Hmm, I don't know, when you have such a pheniminal band, with so much skill especially in a city like San Fran, I think you'll get discovered no matter what.

On a side note, did the acid tests take place when they were the Warlocks?

EDIT
Holy Sh[FONT=Arial]i[/FONT]t Badmoon, you post just made everything I said seem incompetent and answered my question at the same time.

Just because you have talent doesn't mean you'll get discovered.

[QUOTE=Schyma]Just because you have talent doesn't mean you'll get discovered.[/QUOTE]

Well yes, but it isn't like that's all they had going for them.

I still don't think the could have won the fame the did without it but whatever.....

I'm courious to hear a really early Grateful Dead (or Warlock) bootleg. Were they always a Jam Band? Were they psychedelic at first? What's the earlist bootleg that exsits?

They weren't the first to play psychedelic music BTW.

I can't really answer that as I haven't heard their first album, or their stuff when they were the Warlocks, but Anthem of the Sun, which came out in 1968 and Aoxomoxoa from '69 are both really psychadelic from what I've heard. Live/ Dead is also very psychadelic, and considering they came out of SF, I'd say that they were originally psychadelic, and they took psychadelic music futher than others. They improvised more and constantly toured, so I guess they started psychadelic and expanded into jam. Live/ Dead is a good example of this, it's very psychadelic and jam.

Their s/t (1967) has some psychedelia on it, though not as much as Anthem.

[QUOTE=rock not roll]She was hot, I don't blame them for writing songs about her.[/QUOTE]

Hell yeah, Pattie Boyd was pretty **** hot....I love women in the 60s mod getup, so **** sexy.

I think for the most part all The Beatles got pretty good opposites (well, except maybe John, but Cynthia was okay).....Maureen Cox? and Barbara Bach for Ringo? **** that guys the best! Paul's g/f before Linda, some actress or rather, was pretty cute as well.

Yeah, their self titled album is like Roots...edelia. Like "Sittin' On Top of the World"; it's a Bluegrass tune but they add a Rock/Psychedelic sound to it.

They weren't always a Jam Band (They weren't one till after Aoxomoxoa), but they always had a little Psychedelia to them.

[QUOTE=Badmoon]Yeah, their self titled album is like Roots...edelia. Like "Sittin' On Top of the World"; it's a Bluegrass tune but they add a Rock/Psychedelic sound to it.[/QUOTE]


I was listneing to a Bluegrass version of Sittin On Top Of the World, it was pretty nice

EDIT: Hot Rise bluegrass version

Psycheroots.
[QUOTE=Badmoon]They weren't always a Jam Band (They weren't one till after Aoxomoxoa), but they always had a little Psychedelia to them.[/QUOTE]
Maybe not a full-blown jam band, but what about the 23-minute version of Viola Lee Blues on the remastered s/t, and Anthem of the Sun is very jam influenced it seems (more psychedelia too it yes, but live around this time they had very long Alligator and Caution jams).

These are just easily documented live recordings because of their albums, I have basically no other clues about their live show in 67-68.