Ive got some questions. I was a choir student for 7 years so know a lot about different singing techniques. I took lots of voice lessons and stuff like that. Would you say that I need to go back and get "professional help". Its been about three years since my last choir competition. Im looking for a sound like Nate Barslow from finch. I think he has a melodic but rough scream and I love it. SO any tips on how to attain that would be gretly appeciated.

I'm working on my grind scream/growl.

As best as I can understand, it's not really about projection but about getting as close to sounding like the spawn of Satan as possible (see: Lord Worm).

Any tips for grind/grindcore vocals? I'll post my results as soon as I get em recorded.

well that depends on what your career/longevity goals are!

i would agree with children of lilith. play around with your mic. you usually want your output level to be 7 or 8, or around 80%,(depending on the system) with as much gain as you can can before you get feedback and distortion. you have an acoustic instrument. a little reverb is always good. if youre running through a mixer, keep the mic input hot, around 80%, and adjust the outs, monitor level etc. you want the mic hot as hell with alot of gain going into the mix. keep it hot and adjust the gain, then the outputs.

There is only one way to properly vocalize. an open throat, and bringing it from the gut. go to my sticky titled voice help hotline. no i dont know everything, but i know a bit. and by grindcore you basically mean a lot of rasp, correct? its all the same. you've got rasp. but if youre not concerned with projection your going to probably end up falling into the black hole of over pushing and tension, which is probably why you get fatigued after thirty or so minutes. youre probably already losing it after fifteen, and just compensating until you cant anymore. you cant headline if youre losing it after thirty minutes, with shows five or six times a week! and warm up, stay hydrated, and warm down, thats my signature almost.


But i must say that i was singing cold beef/ hamburger all day at work today!

your vocals are amazing dwarf guy.

my head doesn't hurt anymore after singing :thumb: but this whole singing thing really confuses me. id ask on a diffirent forum about bands liek disgorge and they would say that its gutteral vocals or something like that and tell me to sing from the gut or the diaphram :amaze: :eek: and then theres some specific breathing techniques that you have to do and everything :amaze:

this is a disgorge sample of the site, its not their greatest song but you can hear the vocals pretty clearly
[URL=http://www.deathmetal.com/disgorge/Atonement.mp3]disgorge(usa) - atonoment[/URL]


heres a power metal band from british columbia with interesting sounding vocals. it might be just me but he goes frigin high at times :amaze:
[URL=http://www.omegacrom.com/media/live_tracks/Battlefield.mp3]Omega Crom - Battlefield (live)[/URL]

i think both of those vocal styles sound amazing

yea it can be like golf(dont laugh, i play a bit). the more you think, the more difficult it can be. its all just words to give you an idea of the feel. you dont want to squeeze anything in your throat, you want it open like youre saying ahh for the doctor, or yawning. and you want your breath to be supported by your stomach. thats it. read through my sticky, i've updated it twice in the past three days.

still trying
 

first of all i'd like to thank everyone who has given great advice so far :thumb: . I've been working on my scream for a couple weeks now and I think im doing an O.K. job (especially with all the pointers on this forum). I was just wondering if anyone could give me any advice on how to upgrade my scream to become louder and "fuller". Any advice would great! thanks alot. :D

so screamings fun..... i do it all the time before a show jus to " warm up"

[QUOTE=davidw_9]first of all i'd like to thank everyone who has given great advice so far :thumb: . I've been working on my scream for a couple weeks now and I think im doing an O.K. job (especially with all the pointers on this forum). I was just wondering if anyone could give me any advice on how to upgrade my scream to become louder and "fuller". Any advice would great! thanks alot. :D[/QUOTE]


sorry, only father time. cause that builds experience and strength. you gain more feel for yourself with experience and you figure out what does what for you. plus youre going to have to build more muscle and stronger cords. that just takes time. and you dont want to try to rush it. just take care, and you know how by now, and it will come and keep coming. again, dont think pushing harder will necessarily do it. although if there is no pain, i would up the agression a bit, if you feel your technique can handle it. again, no pain, no affect on your speaking voice. otherwise, keep testing your limits.

I have a problem..i cna scream liek hardcore scream really low..and i can scream like too high..but i can never get it in the middle like story of the year..etc..any tips..?and now practice i realized does make better..before i used to sscream once a couple months but now every other day and its improved..as well as my throat is stronger..haha no raspyness or loss of voice

thanks alot for the advice, ill keep trying my best :chug:

I wanna ask thee unsound about Dez's screaming (ex. Coal Chamber vocalist, now Devildriver's vocal) Take for example Devildriver - The Mountan. I've heard lives and he makes the screamz 100% like it's on the record, so it's like he's screaming from the gut and the other way at the same time... or I hear it kinda like that.

btw about the "chino" way of screaming, I practiced a lot with my falceto voice, but all I can do is scream like a raped monkey... But I can do it other way, less louder, but when I turn up the mic, it sounds pretty good, with my whispering and some of my normal voice (I think I use my diaphragm), but after too much of that my head starts to hurt :)

for some reason when i scream, it doesn't really sound like anything. it's pretty much a whisper, i can't get any tone on it unless there's a microphone. other than that, it's just a distorted whisper, it that the way it's supposed to be?

In response to the last two posts. There is just one way to properly scream. and thats to slightly close the upper throat AFTER the sound has been activated, but professionally you do it at the same time. when you get into mid and high pitched screams, youre either using your cords as usual, for mid range stuff, or youre using falsetto voice, or a mixture of the two. Thats it. if youre trying to scream out of your range, or push too much, then your cords just cant activate and youre gonna get less or no tone. so practice singing the note first. if you cant get it strong and tight, why do you think you will be able to push even more air over it to hit the back of the throat for a scream effect...? you have to be able to sing the note hard, thats all screaming is. but you just open the throat and hit the extra air off your throat. practice singing the notes.

Hey im just 18 now n iv been a big metal fan for about ever. I wanna learn how to scream well. I can do things like godsmack n mudvayne... but i get hoarse after singing like 1 or 2 songs. i dont even know if im doing things right or really where to begin. It would b really cool if somebody could give me a good instruction on a place to start and how to practice to get really good. Also, how to get the indurence. In my band, i really need to know how to switch back and forth between screaming and actually singing. can anybody help?

[QUOTE=MtlGtrRckr]Hey im just 18 now n iv been a big metal fan for about ever. I wanna learn how to scream well. I can do things like godsmack n mudvayne... but i get hoarse after singing like 1 or 2 songs. i dont even know if im doing things right or really where to begin. It would b really cool if somebody could give me a good instruction on a place to start and how to practice to get really good. Also, how to get the indurence. In my band, i really need to know how to switch back and forth between screaming and actually singing. can anybody help?[/QUOTE]
If youre getting hoarse at all, but ESPECIALLY within fifteen minutes, you are doing things WAY wrong and you need to stop now. at least read my replies in the voicehelp hotline sticky, and read around. but for your own sake dude, dont do irreversible damage to your cords by using improper technique.

Hey I've posted a few times but I never get any response. I've got a fairly deep voice, and almost no range, like when I try to go into a falsetto voice it just breaks up and its like I'm pushing air out but no sound comes out. Is it still possible for me to get a good quality scream (ie. Deftones - Around the Fur, Refused - New Noise) with this problem I've got? When I try to scream it sounds just like a loud shout and is very clear but I want it to be distorted..
Any help is greatly appreciated.

[QUOTE=osirisblind]Hey I've posted a few times but I never get any response. I've got a fairly deep voice, and almost no range, like when I try to go into a falsetto voice it just breaks up and its like I'm pushing air out but no sound comes out. Is it still possible for me to get a good quality scream (ie. Deftones - Around the Fur, Refused - New Noise) with this problem I've got? When I try to scream it sounds just like a loud shout and is very clear but I want it to be distorted..
Any help is greatly appreciated.[/QUOTE]

[url]http://www.musicianforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=219911[/url]

hey thanks a ton merkaba. like everyone else says, you deffinitely sound like u know what ur talkin about. its funny, my car is pretty much the only place i really sing (or scream) too. Ur help page is very informative. i appreciate it man. :thumb:

Thanks a lot for all this tips, i will be uploading my screaming shortly for evaluation.. but to compare i just wondered, can someone tell me how Poison The well does their screams? Thanks in advance.

well I haven't posted in a while - moving into college and stuff. Once I get some time and know that I won't scare every single person in the dorms, I'll get some new screams recorded. The grind-core vox hurt a bit still but they sound siiicckkkk.

[QUOTE=A_Tossed_Dwarf]well I haven't posted in a while - moving into college and stuff. Once I get some time and know that I won't scare every single person in the dorms, I'll get some new screams recorded. The grind-core vox hurt a bit still but they sound siiicckkkk.[/QUOTE]

Pain=Damage

just remember that

alright, ive got a set of questions here: first of all, #3 says "make a weird grin thing by lifting your jaws' or whatever and i don't get that, but it sounds really important; can somebody explain that? also, how do i know if the scream is coming from my stomach or chest or throat? and how do i control which it comes out of, and which do i want it to come out of for what types of screams? i just tried screaming Metallica - Ride The Lightning and i could do it and it sounded cool but i would start to taste blood in my throat and my throat hurts now, so i know i wasnt doing it right.

well, its like if you are going to pretend snore. you know how you have to look like a snarling dog. at least thats how i feel.

Everything really comes from the gut. so dont overthink it. its just that if you have proper support AND a relaxed throat then you shouldnt feel alot of pressure in the throat. when you dont have enough support, you will tend to close your throat off to build up the pressure you feel you need. but this pressure comes at the expense of your cords because its not balance with whats being released. you should check out my audio samples. it might give you a bit to listen to that might help you. "coming from the gut" is the same feel as if youre were going to cough or grunt. as far as the diaphragm. now you dont want to sing with that much pressure, but it is the feeling that you need to be in touch with. you have to be able to hold that pressure behind the cords and keep it there, instead of blasting it like a cough. but its the same feeling of the belly button pressing up and in.

and yea, the taste of blood is just not good. There is a chance that you were blasting so much air against your throat that it kinda blasts your throat. if you have a soft throat. does it hurt behind your adams apple or like when you have a sore throat?

and all notes really should come from the gut. you can apply different pressure as needed. its like having a tank. you fill it up and you can dispense it as you need. now its not good to deeply inhale for one short or low note. you usually have too much air for a short note. but you still use the support from the diaphragm to take the tension off of your throat.

its weird, if I scream I either go in my head voice and sound like a little girl, or sing from my tummy:D and sound growlish...Maybe my voice is to deep???

Could anyone please take the time and listen to my screams on one of my bands songs? I'm not the singer in the band, I do backing vocals as well as the prominent screams you hear on "Casualties Are On Both Sides". Our singer also did a few less prominent screams.

The song can be found here: [url]http://www.guaranteedalifetime.com[/url]

Am I doing things the right way and what do you think of the sound? Also, comments on the song are more than welcome!

So, I have a question for you Merkaba-1.

I am in a metal band... and I can do deep vocals pretty well, but if I try to do a higher falsetto scream, I end up not harming my voice or so (or so I think) and i can go back to my growls, but afterwards it kinda feels like my throat is somewhat irritated. Somewhat, not immensly.

So question for you... how would I know whether or not I am doing the falsetto scream properly? I do not feel any irritation DURRING the process, but i feel a little dry afterwards.

Also... am i harming anything permanantly if I am growling by doing the grunting voice (you know, caveman style) then pushing air through and forming words? I feel a vibration at the back of my throat, but I am not completely sure if I am doing it improperly.

Thanks buddy.

you get the same thing as me........also when i breathed in deeply after i was practicing for about 1 an a half hours i kept getting a tickle in my throat an had to cough??????am i doing damage

I can't believe this thread I made is still alive :D

props to Merkaba-1 for maintaining it so well. :chug:

[QUOTE=Spliggity Splot(I got banned)]its weird, if I scream I either go in my head voice and sound like a little girl, or sing from my tummy:D and sound growlish...Maybe my voice is to deep???[/QUOTE]

if youre still in your head voice you have to open up to falsetto to get that static sound distortion. you can rasp a high head voice note though, to give it more of a bite, unless you want it girly sounding. If you want a high scream youre gonna have to practice falsetto notes, not head.

[QUOTE=metaliq]So, I have a question for you Merkaba-1.

I am in a metal band... and I can do deep vocals pretty well, but if I try to do a higher falsetto scream, I end up not harming my voice or so (or so I think) and i can go back to my growls, but afterwards it kinda feels like my throat is somewhat irritated. Somewhat, not immensly.

So question for you... how would I know whether or not I am doing the falsetto scream properly? I do not feel any irritation DURRING the process, but i feel a little dry afterwards.

Also... am i harming anything permanantly if I am growling by doing the grunting voice (you know, caveman style) then pushing air through and forming words? I feel a vibration at the back of my throat, but I am not completely sure if I am doing it improperly.

Thanks buddy.[/QUOTE]

are you sure this irritation isnt from the air hitting your throat? that might take some getting used to and i still get it sometimes, especially if i havent done alot of work in a while. If you know its your cords, around your adams apple, then you need to work on technique. If it feels like its related to a scratchy throat like allergies or when you swallow, then its not your cords. if there is no pain and your speaking voice isnt affected, then i would say keep going so you can really identify what it is. its hard to "feel" your cords being dry, so im thinking its your throat.

when youre doing low vocals your cords are thicker so you need a little more push. But just be sure to try to relax and still work on coming from the gut. you still want the rasp to be in the back of the throat. its best to drop your jaw a bit and keep your head level, maybe slightly tucking your chin. i know with performing we tend to do wild shlt but try to keep that in mind. plus you can just keep your eyes on the crowd more, use it to your advantage. again, practice sining the low notes first.

and check out my samples as far as the falsetto stuff goes, and the rasp too. it might help you a bit.

again, let discomfort and your speaking voice be your guides.

[QUOTE=Winter-seed...AKA b&h]you get the same thing as me........also when i breathed in deeply after i was practicing for about 1 an a half hours i kept getting a tickle in my throat an had to cough??????am i doing damage[/QUOTE]

well probabaly from mucous on the cords.

no pain?/speaking voice?

warm down.

[QUOTE=sliver]I can't believe this thread I made is still alive :D

props to Merkaba-1 for maintaining it so well. :chug:[/QUOTE]


i just do what i do. what i can. :thumb:

:chug: <--- (cherry coke please)

[QUOTE=frisb]Could anyone please take the time and listen to my screams on one of my bands songs? I'm not the singer in the band, I do backing vocals as well as the prominent screams you hear on "Casualties Are On Both Sides". Our singer also did a few less prominent screams.

The song can be found here: [url]http://www.guaranteedalifetime.com[/url]

Am I doing things the right way and what do you think of the sound? Also, comments on the song are more than welcome![/QUOTE]

its hard to tell since its in the backgroung kinda. but i must say that my initial response was that its a little throaty, kinda like theres not enough gut support and youre squeezing the throat to compensate and pushing harder than you need. it sounds forced. It just sounds like it to me based more on experience. But again, its hard for me to tell for sure. how do you feel ?

[QUOTE=Merkaba-1]well probabaly from mucous on the cords.

no pain?/speaking voice?

warm down.[/QUOTE]

yea i didnt warm down :upset:
but yea my speaking voice if fine an no pain....just scratchy

thanks for that dude.....ur a mad help :thumb:

well hey, i would keep going. i mean youre working out so. its probably your throat, and not your cords. but i dont know. just dont rush it and feel yourself out. you'll develop your own sense of whats good and bad based on how quickly you feel fatigue, lose notes, and get discomfort.

remember you lungs are way stronger than your cords. find the balance point for optimal air push and optimal sound. if i could draw a graph , as push increases volume and tone increase too, but as you keep increasing push, the more the line starts to go down on the side that says quality, tone, stamina,etc. ya know.

see ya

Hey sorry to bug you about this its probably somewhere else in this huge thread but i just started screaming for my band and like a month ago i couldnt scream at all. and i practiced for a while and now i can but my scream goes in and out some days it sounds good and others like crap. i want to know why that is and some basic tips for a beginner screamer. I would love to sound like As I Lay Dying or that type.

Merkaba-

Yea, it might just be air irritation in the back of the throat. Is there anything to take to keep the throat from gettin dry? I know water and such... and ive tried honey, and it doesnt help an extreme amount.

I dont think i could find anything in your stickied thread, so is there a way to get used to it more quickly.

As well... if there is 'phlem' (or whatever, haha) in your throat for metal growls, it shouldnt harm it really would it? Because i noticed milk helps with that, but its not good for singing... but I really am not singing in a classical sense.

Also- so grunting to growl/scream is the proper technique? I am trying to go from the gut, but I am still not quiet understanding how that works. I think I am getting it, but I still have to grunt per-say.

Thanks man.

just stay hyrdrated. i would recommend gargling with salt water and or listerine, and or hydrogen peroxide after you know your forceful duties for the day are through. it will help to keep that area from getting infected or getting a sore throat. There is a tea called throat coat that you can try. i've never tried it but a few instructors mention it.

my opinion is just say no to milk. i just posted a book on it in another thread. whats gonna happen is that the extra mucous makes you have to push harder to get your tone and youre back at square one. just sing low, and rasp it. its all the same. practicing singing that note like an opera dude is the best way. that way you know you have to strength set up to be able to rasp it without extra undue pressure, or strain or tension.

and no, grunting is wrong. i do think that i mentioned that you dont grunt, but its the PRESSURE that you feel like a grunt. maybe i need to make that clearer. but no you dont grunt, but its almost like youre getting ready to. you need that feel. grunting is usually a tense larynx move. you can practice by lightly grunting with a blank face like isolation exercises. just barely do it. and you ll feel the same pressure in the gut and on the cords. then just work from there to a hum, then a note. just dont tense up like you might with a grunt. a grunt also doesnt allow enough airflow for a big push note. but to get the feel of the pressure in the gut and cords its pretty dead on.

okok one more question.....i know im a pain in the *** ay? :cool:
ok it feels like i got the scream now an im kinda happy with the sound of it...its not perfect but im assuming over time ill get better at it. This scream causes no pain excpt a small amount of scratching but now my falsetto is gone...could it be from over practicing or is this something bad...cause i shat my pants :confused:

heres my scream ........i did it in a song to sound cooler :naughty: haha nah its all good.
[url]http://www.soundclick.com/bands/3/gnikregrubmusic.htm[/url]
thanks for any advice given.

[QUOTE=LivingDeadBoy]Thanks a lot for all this tips, i will be uploading my screaming shortly for evaluation.. but to compare i just wondered, can someone tell me how Poison The well does their screams? I sound somewhat like Alex is on fire(i hate the band though) Thanks in advance.[/QUOTE]
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