May I suggest you get Still Life :p

Although I think Deliverance is heavier/faster than SL if that's what your looking for.

So SL is more like Morningrise? Because that's definitly my favorite of theirs that I've heard so far :\

Yeah I guess so, and I'm told SL is more like BWP as well. Plus SL if my favourite from what I have so far.

If this is to continue we should probably switch threads.

Nah it's ok, I was just trying to some personal opinions. Back to the Tool.. discussion...

[QUOTE=G_Mac07]I know, I havent got a photo editing program for now though, so I'll stay with this for the next 2 weeks until I go home again. Then I shall start promoting Cog's upcoming album.

And I've picked up Deliverance, Still Life and Morningrise since I've moved. :thumb:[/QUOTE]

You did realize he meant that your avatar is distorted because you didn't re-upload it from the crash a few weeks ago?

[QUOTE=Kage]You did realize he meant that your avatar is distorted because you didn't re-upload it from the crash a few weeks ago?[/QUOTE]

Yep, I knew that. I was away for those couple of weeks as I was moving, and only got my laptop last week. Which means now I'm back, but I just have no cool avatar sized pics.

Here G, I made you an avatar.

[url]http://img228.exs.cx/img228/1170/gmac6tx.jpg[/url]

Thanks champ :thumb:

heh...very nice :lol:

[QUOTE=G_Mac07]Thanks champ :thumb:[/QUOTE]

Heh, no problem :smoke:

I especially like the period. refl.

[QUOTE=Otherside]Yah... except not?


He flipped him over, sat on him, and kept on singing.


When you go to military school, you learn things like that.[/QUOTE]

Have you not seen the video? He grabs the guys hand and starts hitting him in the face with it. But yeah I coulda mentioned that he keeps singing.

Also, another guy gets on stage and a security guard body checks him off the stage.

[QUOTE=Darkness Of Greed]Have you not seen the video? He grabs the guys hand and starts hitting him in the face with it. But yeah I coulda mentioned that he keeps singing.

Also, another guy gets on stage and a security guard body checks him off the stage.[/QUOTE]

Are we talking about the same thing? The one where the guy gets on stage to hug Maynard, which MJK pretends to return but flips him over and sits on him? I never remember him hitting him in the face.

[QUOTE=Otherside]Are we talking about the same thing? The one where the guy gets on stage to hug Maynard, which MJK pretends to return but flips him over and sits on him? I never remember him hitting him in the face.[/QUOTE]

Thats what I've seen. I've never heard of anything quite like what Darkness Of Greed is describing. :confused:

I don't think he was hitting him in the face. To me, it looked like the fan was moving his fist to the music. Rocking out.

Yeah I was wrong (ha sorry). Maynard flips him, wraps his legs and arms around him then rolls so hes sitting on top of him and starts patting him on the back and the guy raises his fist. Then the other dude comes on and the guard pushes him off.

Maynard also says something weird into the mic when hes sitting on him..can anyone make it out?

Sorry, I shoulda got my facts straight...its been easily a year since I've seen the video.

I was reading this post from the beginning, at page 7 I started to wonder how long the thread was. I was blown away! 170 pages, no f***ing way was I going to read all of them. It is almost a book in here. Well, I am going to stray away and write my feelings on an APC song: My interpretation was much along the lines of a possessive person tords something that had belonged to them.

[B]Artist: A Perfect Circle[/B]
[B]Song: The Package[/B]

[I]Clever got me this far
Then tricky got me in[/I]

This I thought was a constructed form of deceit. Clever, meaning the person knew how to construct sentances, or motions, to portray the deceitful manner. Tricky, meaning that the person stuck to the lie (deceit), which help them in.

[I]Eye on what I'm after[/I]

To me this is no different to a father telling his son to keep his eye on the ball or he wont catch it, or hit it.

[I]I don't need another friend[/I]

Let's just face it friends can get in the way of our goals, by trying to achieve their own.

[I]Smile and drop the cliche
'Till you think I'm listening[/I]

Here the person has used their cleverness to lour in the bait. The bait depends on what the person wants, which the song doesn't express.

[I]I take just what I came for
Then I'm out the door again[/I]

I would have to say that this is self explanitory.

[I]Peripheral long the package[/I]

I would have to say that this is a part, an extra piece. Anotherward the part is the package wraped.

[I]Don't care to settle in
Time to feed the monster[/I]

A clever person wouldn't want to settle in, just for the fact that they might be exposed for the decietful action(s). Here I believe the monster is the persons mind.

[I]I don't need another friend[/I]

[I]Comfort is a mystery
Crawling out of my own skin[/I]

Of course reminding themselves of the trickery in them. Their ability to decieve and maintain it.

[I]Just give me what I came for, then I'm out the door again[/I]

[I]Lie to get what I came for
Lie to get just what I need
Lie to get what I crave
Lie and smile to get what's mine[/I]

Here it seems as though the person is feeling shame for what they have to do just to get what they want. Putting on a false identity.

[I]Eye on what I'm after
I don't need another friend[/I]

[I]Nod and watch your lips move
If you need me to pretend[/I]

Here I don't fully understand, it could mean a couple things. First, it could mean that the person follows their ways in deceit and just ignores what the another is talking about. On the other hand, it could be a loved one, or another person, that cann't bare being without someone humering them.

[I]Because clever got me this far
Then tricky got me in
I'll take just what I came for
Then I'm out the door again[/I]

[I]Lie to get what I came for
Lie to get what I need now
Lie to get what I'm craving
Lie and smile to get what's mine[/I]

[I]Give this to me
Mine, mine, mine
Take what's mine
Mine, mine, mine
Take what's mine
Mine, mine, mine[/I]

The person sounds weak to me at this point, gasping for air. Demanding their piece of package. Although I perceive it as though it is being taken away. The song goes on to emphasis these points. I did, in a way stray from my original point, tords more of a person that was robbed of their peice of package. I will admit that I didn't express exactly what made me draw to that conclusion, but I would explain it if I knew how to.

Although, I thought it was also through the perspctive of some one chatting on line. "I'll take just what I came for, Then I'm out the door again" I sort of seen it as a chat room. Silly way of seeing it though.
Kry

Since The Package is my favorite track from 13th step, I will share my interpretation of it, in a first person mode.


i am what i'm after
i don't need another friend.

In other words, I am only looking for what makes me feel good, I don't need other people to help me do this, I only need the package

smile and drop the cliche
till you think i'm listening
take just what i came for
then i'm out the door again.

When people try to get friendly over something, just nod your head and say ok until you get what you came for then leave.

peripheral on the package
don't care to settle in
time to feed the monster
i don't need another friend

Again, I don't need any place that I feel comfortable, just as long as I can make myself feel good.

comfort is a mystery
crawling out of my own skin
just give me what i came and
i'm out the door again

I can no longer find comfort, I just need it, more more of it

Give this to me
Take what's mine
Mine, mine, mine
Take what's mine
Give this to me

I get angry here, demanding the package, just give it to me I need it.



give this to me.

take what's mine.
take what's mine.
mine.
take what's mine.
take what's mine.
take what's mine.
this is mine.
mine.
all mine.

And here is where I crumble, I soley depend on the package, and without it I feel as if I have no substance, and beg for it.



In other words, The Package = drugs.

That's also what I got from it. Isn't the album something of a concept album dealing with that sort of thing?

[QUOTE=Kage]That's also what I got from it. Isn't the album something of a concept album dealing with that sort of thing?[/QUOTE]

Yup. It's a vague concept album that deals with drug addiction. Some people claim that 13th stepping is the process of taking drug rehab but not really quitting. I don't know, that doesn't fit with me, not as gravity as an ending track.

Well, I think vague is the key word there. I don't understand how songs like Pet, Blue, and The Outsider have anything to do with it. I actually haven't thought all too much about it, but unless it's taking it from different points of view, I just don't see all the connections.

The outsider could be about the drug addict, and how he/she is a fake suicidal/an attention whore.

So it's obviously not so much a personal account as it is just lyrical themes dealing with the same issue.

[QUOTE=Kage]Well, I think vague is the key word there. I don't understand how songs like Pet, Blue, and The Outsider have anything to do with it. I actually haven't thought all too much about it, but unless it's taking it from different points of view, I just don't see all the connections.[/QUOTE]

I pretty much agree with that. Perhaps I'm not seeing something but the entire album doesn't seem to fit as a concept album would.

Anyway, great to see some song meanings back in this thread. I can't wait to do this with the new album :thumb:

I sort of see the album as starting out with the Package where he gets the "drug" or whatever it will be, and the rest of the album is sort of the process of being messed up by it. For example, Weak And Powerless explores how he cannot live without it, etc...then the Noose talks about how he's basically hurting those around him as well as himself. Blue talks about how as a result of his "addictions" he is almost unable to maintain human affection and relationships. Vanishing is the actual act of dissappearing from the world, getting "high" and running away from it...vanishing into the air and forgetting his problems.

After this, the lyrics seem to switch from generally first person to being generally third person. Perhaps this reflects the outside view of the person (he becomes a Stranger and an Oustider) or maybe to reflect a dream-like, hazy state.

Take stranger and outsider both as third person. During stranger, this person is semi-interested in the drug addict, and considered becomming friends with the person.

During outsider, the friendship is over and the person hates the addict because he/she knows him/her better.

I think it sort of shows the different levels of corruption that's involved in it. The person is, like you said, at first considering befriending the addict, etc. It's sort of like the corruption of innocence, he goes from being a nice person and then becomes more cynical (the Outsider) because of his experiences with the addict.

Are you guys allowed to post APC stuff in here? Because this is kinda a Tool thread.

There are three possibilities for the new album:

1) One disc of 3 or 4 10 minute or longer songs
2) Two discs of 10 minute or longer songs
3) LK is the only REALLY long song.

yes this is the place for APC stuff aswell but haven't APC broke up?

No. They are on Hiatus while Maynard is with tool.

Ah ha! At last.

[URL=http://s25.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=10FE9LI2MP3BC3GOW5N0FYDUV9]MJK shows us the art of self defence[/URL]

Uploading H at some later point. I still have Schism and about 30 secs of Eulogy easily available too

[QUOTE=MXican]yes this is the place for APC stuff aswell but haven't APC broke up?[/QUOTE]


Yes this is also the place for Apc and drunkeness. As I asked before, does anyone know anything about Zaum(sp?). they're mention in the thread preview but that all ive heard about them.

10 min post ++ :p:chug:

I'll run through each track of Thirteenth Step, and write my basic opinion of what each one means in terms of the drug theme.

The Package is about a drug addict doing basically whatever it takes to get his fix.

Weak and Powerless is a drug addict coming to realize that he's lost control over his own life, and he's basically powerless over the fact that he requires drugs.

The Noose is about the friend of a recovered addict who is congratulating him on his recent recovery, but also questioning the former addict on how he will make amends for some of the horrible things he has done under the influence (having possibly killed people).

Blue is about two people taking a drug, and one of them has an overdose and begins to die on the spot. The other person is too high to do anything, so he just watches as his friend dies.

Vanishing describes the actual act of taking the drug. The user basically feels like he's transcending his physical reality, and begins to drift a way, in a sense.

A Stranger is an interesting one. I read an excellent theory online that the drug user has lost his faith in god, as the lyrics metaphorically describe the father ("[color=white]f[/color]ucking tornado") the son ("terrified child") and the holy ghost ("shy away phantom"). However, it could merely be about a counselor or friend trying to help an addict, but giving up too easily.

The Outsider is sung from the perspective of someone who knows the drug addict, and has become angry at what the addict is doing to himself.

Crimes tells of someone who has literally been incarcerated for something having to do with his addiction. The counting in the song (one, two, three, etc.) is a method in anger management/recovery programs which tells you to count to ten in order to avoid unleashing anger. The voices in the background could be other inmates in the prison (though it's actually Billy, Jeordie, and Josh).

The Nurse Who Loved Me is about an addict who has basically lost his mind. Placed in a institution, he dreams of unreal things, such as the love of one of the nurses.

Pet is a difficult one to figure out, though the connection it has to eMOTIVe, in the form of Counting Bodies, is much more obvious.

Lullaby doesn't really meaning anything, it's basically and extended end to Pet.

Finally, Gravity tells of someone who did manage to recover, and has found life again.

Also, unlike many other theories, I don't believe the album centers on one particular drug addict. Rather, each song tells of a different one.

Those are just my personal interpretations, I know there are many different theories out there.

Any Tool fans who really don't like APC in here?
There must be a few.
I'm not one of them, although i would rather see another 2 Tool Albums than one of each.

Mer de noms was bad ***. they imo went downhill from there. 13th step was ok, noose, gravity were amazing. but i only liked passive off of emotion. i agree all the way man, two from tool is much better than one from each.

13th Step was great man...

I hated APC at first, and about two weeks ago I took Mer De Noms for another spin. Now I'm wearing an APC shirt and I'm covering Judith with my friends. I guess it just takes a few listens.

Its usually the other way round with people I know. They fall in love with APC, yet hate Tool.

AJG, have you heard any Mars Volta?

[QUOTE=Adam Jones is GOD]Its usually the other way round with people I know. They fall in love with APC, yet hate Tool.[/QUOTE]
I love both Tool and A Perfect Circle.It's two sides of Maynard's writing capabilities.Anyway,what's your favorite piece by MJK?Mine is "3 Libras".