[QUOTE=Xomblies;17700957]you're not being objective, you're being an elitist[/QUOTE]

You're also being elitist by claiming that your screamo is refined and more advanced. Which is falso. Sweeping is not refined. It's easier to replicate. Old screamo was something that was more advanced in reference to it's own genre because it was an outlet of emotion unlike any other genre. It was raw and barbaric at times, but also soothing and melodic at other times. Your version of screamo is not better, and in my opinion, subjectively worse, because it is so much more cookie cutter designed. Regardless, that doesn't hinder on my argument that they're both labeled as screamo.

[QUOTE=iamrockzorz;17700970]You're also being elitist by claiming that your screamo is refined and more advanced. Which is falso. Sweeping is not refined. It's easier to replicate. Old screamo was something that was more advanced in reference to it's own genre because it was an outlet of emotion unlike any other genre. It was raw and barbaric at times, but also soothing and melodic at other times. Your version of screamo is not better, and in my opinion, subjectively worse, because it is so much more cookie cutter designed. Regardless, that doesn't hinder on my argument that they're both labeled as screamo.[/QUOTE]

objection sustained

[QUOTE=whiteminority;17700968]how the **** am i being an elitist? if i were an elitist i would tell you taste in music is worthless and you should go hang yourself for attempting to discuss this type of music.

i asked you a simple question you jump to accusations instead of realizing, that oh ****, i might actually know what i'm talking about on this subject.[/QUOTE]

chill

[QUOTE=iamrockzorz;17700970]You're also being elitist by claiming that your screamo is refined and more advanced. Which is falso. Sweeping is not refined. It's easier to replicate. Old screamo was something that was more advanced in reference to it's own genre because it was an outlet of emotion unlike any other genre. It was raw and barbaric at times, but also soothing and melodic at other times. Your version of screamo is not better, and in my opinion, subjectively worse, because it is so much more cookie cutter designed. Regardless, that doesn't hinder on my argument that they're both labeled as screamo.[/QUOTE]

Well said, brah.

[QUOTE=Xomblies;17700973]chill[/QUOTE]

watch your mouth before you go acting like an idiot then.

to be honest you can trace the lineage of those bands but i doubt you would know the bands that laid the foundation for that sound, but because i feel like being a nice guy i'll fill you in, check out the band Dispensing of False Halos, they were a contemporary band of the screamo era that were described at the time as "too metal for the screamo kids and too screamo for the metal kids." they definitely were among the first to adapt something besides hardcore/grind/power violence to the screamo sound and any band after that with the sound were followers and not innovators.

[QUOTE=whiteminority;17700977]watch your mouth before you go acting like an idiot then.

to be honest you can trace the lineage of those bands but i doubt you would know the bands that laid the foundation for that sound, but because i feel like being a nice guy i'll fill you in, check out the band Dispensing of False Halos, they were a contemporary band of the screamo era that were described at the time as "too metal for the screamo kids and too screamo for the metal kids." they definitely were among the first to adapt something besides hardcore/grind/power violence to the screamo sound and any band after that with the sound were followers and not innovators.[/QUOTE]

represent

[QUOTE=iamrockzorz;17700970]You're also being elitist by claiming that your screamo is refined and more advanced. Which is falso. Sweeping is not refined. It's easier to replicate. Old screamo was something that was more advanced in reference to it's own genre because it was an outlet of emotion unlike any other genre. It was raw and barbaric at times, but also soothing and melodic at other times. Your version of screamo is not better, and in my opinion, subjectively worse, because it is so much more cookie cutter designed. Regardless, that doesn't hinder on my argument that they're both labeled as screamo.[/QUOTE]

i was thinking about what you said about old screamo having more emotion, i think that may be a little more subject to perception, but overall you're right man, i am no better than the other side, but i am open minded to listen to why one would think chiodos isn't.

I don't mean oh you can't place chiodos in a genre so they have to be screamo by default of the average listener, nor do i want a list of bands who supposedly started the genre, i've gotten those and i've listened. what i'm asking is HOW the people who disagree with me differentiate the two in a way that actually has to do with the music itself

Genres only exist "by default of the average listener" which is the point I'm trying to make.

The difference between the two genres of screamo is as follows:

Screamo #1 is punk
Screamo #2 is not so much

Aesthetics. It's all about the aesthetics.

[QUOTE=iamrockzorz;17700822]People in this scene are too ****ing elitist. Subjectively, your usage of a term to define something other than what we use to define it is not any worse. It's simply different. People are into different things, but that doesn't make me better than you for liking something that existed before what you liked and carried the same terminology.

I'm just sick of seeing this response in this thread:

Newbie: I like screamo, underoath is cool.
MX User: OMG You'RE A MORON! you KNow NOTHING! listen. let me give you a history lesson on why you're wrong about everything.
Newbie: I like "an undefined genre", underoath is cool.

What comes of it?[/QUOTE]
undefined genre = metalcore

problem solved :>

[QUOTE=iamrockzorz;17700989]Genres only exist "by default of the average listener" which is the point I'm trying to make.

The difference between the two genres of screamo is as follows:

Screamo #1 is punk
Screamo #2 is not so much

Aesthetics. It's all about the aesthetics.[/QUOTE]

you can definitely hear the difference, and i can understand why it would be iritating for someone to lump the two together when you're a fan of one or the other because their similarities are why we would classify either as screamo. All i was saying with my first post in this thread; include the bands that many other people also classify as screamo... even if it's not your own personally. I'm not by any means saying that the bands originally posted aren't. Just that there's a lack of respect for people who think there are more bands to be added to the list. and i find it silly that they haven't been because there are some people who simply don't think they're punk enough... does that make sense?

Just throwing it out there, most of the "screamo" you listed is post hardcore.

[QUOTE=witchxrapist;17701007]Just throwing it out there, most of the "screamo" you listed is post hardcore.[/QUOTE]

eh, if there were a solid definitive way to categorize bands like the ones i listed into post hardcore i wouldn't have even poped my head into the emo/ screamo thread

apples to apples i guess

[QUOTE=witchxrapist;17701007]Just throwing it out there, most of the "screamo" you listed is post hardcore.[/QUOTE]

Truth. But there is also a flaw in that argument. Do you see similarities between fugazi and the other bands that started post-hardcore, and today's post-hardcore chiodos? It's just as bad of an argument as the screamo thing. They're not the same at all, but because of classification, they're labeled as such regardless.

Chiodos is as similar to Fugazi as Guns Up! is to Minor Threat, or Suis La Lune is to Honeywell, or Through The Eyes Of The Dead to Entombed.

Do you see where I'm going with this? Genres evolve over time.

False. Chiodos is not as similar to fugazi as guns up! is to minor threat. They sound COMPLETELY different. Post-hardcore is to hardcore as post-punk is to punk. and maybe this is post-post-hardcore, but is sure as hell ain't post-hardcore.

[QUOTE=iamrockzorz;17701016]Truth. But there is also a flaw in that argument. Do you see similarities between fugazi and the other bands that started post-hardcore, and today's post-hardcore chiodos? It's just as bad of an argument as the screamo thing. They're not the same at all, but because of classification, they're labeled as such regardless.[/QUOTE]

yeah, and i prettymuch said that in my last post saying there's no definitive method of categorization, which is why i understand your frustration when someone comes in here saying what i said. but because of that lack of differentiation it's inherent that these bands are included in multiple genres, even if some don't agree. Unfortunate yes, but nothing to get angry about, not saying that you are at all... just some people immediately wrote me off as some schmuck who doesn't know anything...

[QUOTE=iamrockzorz;17701024]False. Chiodos is not as similar to fugazi as guns up! is to minor threat. They sound COMPLETELY different. Post-hardcore is to hardcore as post-punk is to punk. and maybe this is post-post-hardcore, but is sure as hell ain't post-hardcore.[/QUOTE]

:lol: i guess

**** genre in any cases, music is what it is. Genre only exists because the consumer's mind can't grasp identifying things on a large scale without the help of some nuancing term. Listen to what you listen to. Even worse, genre classification helps to create scenes. Sure that's a good thing, but way too often it lends to a restrictive elitism that is pretty lame.

[QUOTE=iamrockzorz;17701036]**** genre in any cases, music is what it is. Genre only exists because the consumer's mind can't grasp identifying things on a large scale without the help of some nuancing term. Listen to what you listen to. Even worse, genre classification helps to create scenes. Sure that's a good thing, but way too often it lends to a restrictive elitism that is pretty lame.[/QUOTE]

yeah i think it's safe to leave it at that, music simply is...


[B]so chiodos is screamo right?!?![/B] lol i'm just fuqin your butt

Come on guys. Punk is supposed to be communal. Leave unnecessary debate for the indie kids.

the year 666 bc

thinking about starting a christXdemonXsurfXoldskool rap core or technojazz ambient tribal band. anyone want to join?

yes

didn't know people actually used the term post-anything for serious. more ambiguous genres don't exist. also post indicates that something's finished. neither rock nor metal nor hardcore nor whatever is finished, so post-whatever doesn't even make sense.

it makes sense when you take it in the context its used and dont go all english nazi on the term yeah

post-rock is just the remainder of rock left over after an epic dragonforce solo

@John
no it doesn't. have you seen how people use post-rock? it's everything from Sigur Rós to Rites of Spring to Slint to Explosions in the Sky to The ****ing Used.

it's silly. usually it's used on (instrumental) math rock. so why not just say (instrumental) math rock? and leave Slint and Mineral and whatever out of it? it's a stupid genre.

You're acting as if Sigur Ros and Explosions In The Sky are the most unsimilar bands ever?

And I've never, ever seen anyone call Rites Of Spring or The Used post-rock....

[QUOTE=NOTindietrash;17701193]didn't know people actually used the term post-anything for serious. more ambiguous genres don't exist. also post indicates that something's finished. neither rock nor metal nor hardcore nor whatever is finished, so post-whatever doesn't even make sense.[/QUOTE]

I'll make you finish so fast you'll lose sensation in your legs for weeks.

Post-fag[font=verdana]got[/font]

post-rock is used by the art college student who can't even get his cashmere sweater taken off by a girl in his art loft before the end of an 'epic' hour long song by a band from some icy country.