In case you're wondering, here's the lyrics to [i]Reno[/i]:

[quote]She took off her stockings, I held them to my face. She had your ankles, I felt filled with grace. [i]"Two hundred dollars straight in, two-fifty up the as[font="verdana"]s[/font]"[/i] she smiled and said. She unbuckled my belt, pulled back her hair, and sat in front of me on the bed. She said, [i]"Honey, how's that feel, do you want me to go slow?"[/i] My eyes drifted out the window, down to the road below. I felt my stomach tighten. The sun bloodied the sky and sliced through the hotel blinds. I closed my eyes.

Sunlight on the Amatitlan, sunlight streaming through your hair. In the Valle de dos Rios, smell of mock orange filled the air. We rode with the vaqueros down into cool rivers of green. I was sure the work and that smile coming out 'neath your hat was all I'd ever need. Somehow all you ever need's, never really quite enough you know. You and I, Maria, we learned it's so.

She slipped me out of her mouth, [i]"You're ready,"[/i] she said. She took off her bra and panties, wet her fingers, slipped it inside her, and crawled over me on the bed. She poured me another whisky, said, [i]"Here's to the best you ever had."[/i] We laughed and made a toast. It wasn't the best I ever had, not even close.[/quote]

It's the way you use the cliche, people.

If you use it knowing it is so, then maybe you can skip the effects and obviousness of what you write.

[QUOTE= slack] I think writing specifically about any event or any emotion allows you a certain freedom to not care about cliches[/QUOTE]

true, but then the piece needs to rely more heavily on delivery, in order to get a sense of genuine emotion. and by witnessing events or emotions first hand, and then writing about them, you're able to write more specifically about varying aspects of the situation.

and yeah, Reno's a great song. love the lyrics.

[QUOTE= tojes]It's the way you use the cliche, people.[/QUOTE]

that's a valid point, using cliches to your advantage can give the message a much more subtle delivery. look at dylan's Leopard skin pill box hat; outwardly a pretty generic, daft blues song. but underlying that is a mocking social commentary. so being aware of cliches allows you to play off audience/reader expectations.

hey kids hows it going :wave:

f[SIZE="2"]u[/SIZE]cking happy, that's how...drunk.







If I'm feelin in the mood I may post a piece sometime soon...but probably not, no but seriously.................maybe.

Write a drunkard one!

who r u?

Mitch2oo6. Im the one that put a crit up for your song in the in-depth thread...and had an angry type of with APS in another of your threads.

[QUOTE=Surf]I'll ask in here, rather than make a thread;

is a that i think a song is unoriginal a valid criticism?

i think it is, but what are other views?

i think that if a piece is unoriginal, then it undermines its purpose as a piece of (and lets face it all forms of lyrics are) poetry. unless you can shed new light, or bring something new to the table, what is the point of flogging a dead horse?
i realise there are counter arguements to this, but what are they?
e.g. "its the way i really feel" or "its a big enough topic, for example love"

so, you tell me, is it a valid criticism or not?[/QUOTE]

Depends on how unoriginal. If it is damn near a copy of something else, then yes, there is no point in it existing.

But you also have to realize that there are many songs out there that pertain to many aspects of human life, and the idea that someone "did something before" is kind of moot. I mean, I *could* write a 100% original song about a giraffe who had a friend that was a rat who happened to live in Antarctica where he lounged all day eating apricots while practicing fencing...or I could write about an aspect of society that someone else once wrote about, but in a completely unique way and in a style all my own. That makes it original.

Generally, the way I look at it, for a song to be cliche it cannot simply be the topic, a MAJORITY of the song has to be...from the phrases, the construction, flow, etc. It has to lack a personal feel to it. (this is why I feel that 98% of rap should be destroyed. Hell, nowadays they don't even bother to make their own music, they just recycle things others have done.)

[QUOTE=Minos]Depends on how unoriginal. If it is damn near a copy of something else, then yes, there is no point in it existing.[/quote]Other than for the amusement of the artist. :)

I usually don't care how cliche they are.

Sometimes my first lines will be cliche because they get my mind going, and then after that I start thinking of better stuff.

[QUOTE=slack]Other than for the amusement of the artist. :)[/QUOTE]

Good point. ;)



The problem is when people don't see the line between something they should just keep for themselves to appreciate and something that can be appreciated in a greater form when shared.

[QUOTE=Minos]Depends on how unoriginal. If it is damn near a copy of something else, then yes, there is no point in it existing.

But you also have to realize that there are many songs out there that pertain to many aspects of human life, and the idea that someone "did something before" is kind of moot. I mean, I *could* write a 100% original song about a giraffe who had a friend that was a rat who happened to live in Antarctica where he lounged all day eating apricots while practicing fencing...or I could write about an aspect of society that someone else once wrote about, but in a completely unique way and in a style all my own. That makes it original.

Generally, the way I look at it, for a song to be cliche it cannot simply be the topic, a MAJORITY of the song has to be...from the phrases, the construction, flow, etc. It has to lack a personal feel to it. (this is why I feel that 98% of rap should be destroyed. Hell, nowadays they don't even bother to make their own music, they just recycle things others have done.)[/QUOTE]

123.
You my friend have got it down.

erm... has anyone listened to "Shed Some Light" from Shinedown ?

The lyrics are way too good...

And how about "In loving Memory" from Alter Bridge ?

I really like simple lyrics, but filled with feeling

[quote=minos](this is why I feel that 98% of rap should be destroyed. Hell, nowadays they don't even bother to make their own music, they just recycle things others have done.)[/quote]C'mon, you can do better than that.

[QUOTE]I *could* write a 100% original song about a giraffe who had a friend that was a rat who happened to live in Antarctica where he lounged all day eating apricots while practicing fencing...[/QUOTE]

Nah, I'm pretty sure the Mighty Boosh did something similar a while back.

On that note, does anyone here watch that show? I'm not even too sure if it's made it out of the UK yet, but it's hilarious - look it up on YouTube or something like that - it's well worth it, I think someone described it as 'Lewis Carrol meets Morecambe and Wise', and that's pretty damn accurate.

Killeroo and Tundra are the two best examples of what it's about.

[QUOTe=Minos]
Generally, the way I look at it, for a song to be cliche it cannot simply be the topic, a MAJORITY of the song has to be...from the phrases, the construction, flow, etc. It has to lack a personal feel to it. (this is why I feel that 98% of rap should be destroyed. Hell, nowadays they don't even bother to make their own music, they just recycle things others have done.)[/QUOTE]
No.
[QUOTE=Leftovers]erm... has anyone listened to "Shed Some Light" from Shinedown ?

The lyrics are way too good...

And how about "In loving Memory" from Alter Bridge ?

I really like simple lyrics, but filled with feeling[/QUOTE]
Hahahahahahahaha

[quote=subtledagger]No.[/quote] Rap isn't music duhhhhhh.

If someone hears something cliche in a song, do they stand up and say, "THAT LINE WAS CLICHE THIS SONG IS TERRIBLE"?

I do. Then I start smashing things.

AlienEater smash AlienEater angrrryyyy!

:angry:

If you are a pop songwriter, people won't mind because people tend to like things they relate to: Read it as, Love, Anger against parents, Political music. That's what everyone's into, they don't mind it's being written again and again.

On the other hand, people who care lightly about lyrical content will see that and fall all over you.

I care about lyrical content, but I certainly could care less about cliches.

contradictions yay

When you are in love cliches are so awesome,.

Cliches are funny.

It sucks when you have an awesome--no, [i]a genius[/i]--concept for a piece, but no idea how to write about it. I'm dying here. :upset:

I usually write down words that associate with it even in a free association manner, and build my song that way.

to slack:

what's the concept?



anyway, I might post a piece sometime :p

I dunno, something about seashells and Omaha beach. I'm still working out the details. :)

Sounds...interesting, to say the least.

yes well the challenge is not letting it get melodramatic. you have to keep that emotion at bay, kids.