Piracy increases album sales says study
2012-05-21 by Voivod STAFF | 204 Comments
A new academic study from the university of North Carolina, titled Profit Leak? Pre-Release File Sharing and the Music Industry, reveals that in contrast to the general consensus within the music industry, piracy increases album sales, albeit by a small percentage and mostly for critically acclaimed artists.

During a nine month period, researcher Robert Hammond collected traffic data from the most popular Bit Torrent private tracker for music distribution (150,000 users). Traffic data exclusively involved new releases that had got leaked prior to their official release. He then correlated the aforementioned traffic data with the legitimate sales of these albums during the same temporal period and constructed a model to predict album sales based on the albums' Bit Torrent file sharing kinetics prior to their official release.

The end result of Hammond's study is that piracy favors albums sales, albeit by a small percentage and mostly for critically acclaimed artists. On the other hand, new releases from small and unknown artists are not favored by their disposal within the Bit Torrent networks.

Hammond's study can be viewed in full at the following location:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/93891327/Hammond-File-Sharing-Leak





Source:
http://tech.in.gr/analysis/article/?aid=1231196487
Tagged: Sputnikmusic

Comments:Add a Comment 
Spec
May 21st 2012
27170 Comments


Gonna pirate regardless.

theacademy
Staff Reviewer
May 21st 2012
28521 Comments


oh boy the first sentence FUCKING LOL

this thread is going to be a disaster of misinformation

Digging: Chris Brown - X

Spec
May 21st 2012
27170 Comments


Aaaaaaaaaand go!

Voivod
Staff Reviewer
May 21st 2012
6105 Comments


@ theacademy

You are right so I fixed it a bit.

Digging: The Sabbathian - Ritual Rites

gabethepiratesquid
May 21st 2012
4521 Comments


this thread is gonna be so dumb, I can feel it in my bones

pirating obviously decreases album sales and any logical not-trying-to-justify-it-to-themselves person will tell you that. But yes, if albums are leaked then it's possible that it can make people want to buy the album more.

pcar
May 21st 2012
530 Comments


siigghhh

theacademy
Staff Reviewer
May 21st 2012
28521 Comments


No i mean the first sentence of the paper. He calls music piracy a "black market"

like seriously

edit: ok also the first sentence of the news article

Spec
May 21st 2012
27170 Comments


hey acad you wanna come over and smoke a cigarette? I won't tell my mum

theacademy
Staff Reviewer
May 21st 2012
28521 Comments


trying to cut down but i'll hang and shoot the shit if the invite still stands

Satellite
May 21st 2012
20816 Comments


brb gonna torrent some assault rifles and human spleens

theacademy
Staff Reviewer
May 21st 2012
28521 Comments


second hand smoke ftw

edit: to lol for sat

Eclecticist
May 21st 2012
3863 Comments


It is actually very interesting that piracy only contributes to a small percentage of hikes in album sales, I really thought it would be much more than just a small fraction.

Also, I find it very interesting that the sales are mostly increased for 'critically acclaimed artists' but that isn't very surprising when sites like sputnikmusic suck the dicks of artists like Drake.

theacademy
Staff Reviewer
May 21st 2012
28521 Comments


5 pages in this isn't a total waste of time but private trackers = pretty narrow scope

Evreaia
May 21st 2012
4040 Comments


I wonder why anyone would be surprised by this?

Pirating get's the name out, the more people know you, the more you sell.

You could sell 7 album among 10 fans if you don't allow pirating.
But you could sell 17 albums among 50 fans if you allow it.

fish.
Contributing Reviewer
May 21st 2012
21964 Comments


so wait was there a control?

unless I'm completely misreading this

theacademy
Staff Reviewer
May 21st 2012
28521 Comments


in this thread: people aren't reading the article and are commenting dumb stuff (see: Evreaia)

Spec
May 21st 2012
27170 Comments


oops wrong account

Voivod
Staff Reviewer
May 21st 2012
6105 Comments


so wait was there a control?

What do you mean by that?

RosaParks
May 21st 2012
14908 Comments


Gonna pirate regardless. [2]

theacademy
Staff Reviewer
May 21st 2012
28521 Comments


funny and interesting, but not really all that important: the paragraphs about how he assigned genre to each of the 1075 albums


Pentagon
May 21st 2012
1998 Comments


in this thread: people aren't reading the article and are commenting dumb stuff (see: Evreaia)

What he says kinda make sense though, although the article does not support it. Who cares though, artists make
their money through touring, and if piracy helps them get their names out, then it does help artists.

Dummit
May 21st 2012
352 Comments


lawl bit torrent.

mediafire that shit.

pcar
May 21st 2012
530 Comments


artists marketing themselves on facebook gets their name out

pirating doesn't

theacademy
Staff Reviewer
May 21st 2012
28521 Comments


@pentagon yeah but he began with "I wonder why anyone would be surprised by this?" lol

theacademy
Staff Reviewer
May 21st 2012
28521 Comments


@pcar: no pirating does its share of promotion. The main thing is that it's not black and white... there's a balance and its dependent on so many variables that generalizing about it like that is stupid imo

fish.
Contributing Reviewer
May 21st 2012
21964 Comments


What do you mean by that?

well what did he compare his results to? cos it's not like he can compare them to albums that aren't pirated.

oh, unless he's comparing them to albums that weren't leaked before release? that seems kinda pointless tbh, and 60 additional units is negligible...

Eclecticist
May 21st 2012
3863 Comments


"so wait was there a control?"

If by 'control' you mean a control group then fucking obviously.... This isn't a literature review :S

theacademy
Staff Reviewer
May 21st 2012
28521 Comments


ugh^ @fist

Voivod
Staff Reviewer
May 21st 2012
6105 Comments


@ AnarchistFish

Hammond compared the Bit Torrent traffic data (collection time: 9 months) for certain new albums prior and after their official release with the legitimate sales of those albums after their official release over the same temporal period and calculated the contribution of piracy in the album sales.

Eclecticist
May 21st 2012
3863 Comments


Oops, reading the article, nvm

Eclecticist
May 21st 2012
3863 Comments


EDIT: There was no control group because it was a literature review. Although, if you want to define the accuracy then you have to check all of the sources that Hammond used.

theacademy
Staff Reviewer
May 21st 2012
28521 Comments


Voivod: private tracker bit torrent data

pcar
May 21st 2012
530 Comments


@acad: the point is artists don't get venues unless they get people from areas they play in to come out and see them. That happens when artists market themselves effectively on social networking sites.

not to mention that the vast majority of people who feel they deserve music for free also wouldn't pay money toward that artist anyways, shows or otherwise

stop trying to justify stealing (copying) another person's intellectual property

fish.
Contributing Reviewer
May 21st 2012
21964 Comments


ugh^ @fist

suck it



theacademy
Staff Reviewer
May 21st 2012
28521 Comments


actually Voivod: NO

theacademy
Staff Reviewer
May 21st 2012
28521 Comments


oh my god so much fucking idiocy, and i knew what was gonna happen, and then i let it happen

Eclecticist
May 21st 2012
3863 Comments


I can't read the full review because I have my own research to conduct atm on alternative sexuality, gender dysphoria, and dissociative identity disorder, but this is good stuff from what I have read from the introduction.

If anyone wants to take a real crack at this area of research, it would be nice to see more information being posted on sputnikmusic about this sort of stuff.

But hey guys it would be difficult to clear the ethics for something like a study of mediafire because BitTorrent sites like ThePirateBay have original jurisdiction being based from a country in which music downloading for free isn't illegal. Ethics wouldn't bite and mediafire probably wouldn't hand over information. I am not sure what self-incrimination laws are like in the states.

Dolving999
May 21st 2012
1633 Comments


I always knew pirates were nice people, deep inside.

Wolfhorde
May 21st 2012
13390 Comments


"not to mention that the vast majority of people who feel they deserve music for free also wouldn't pay money toward that artist anyways, shows or otherwise

stop trying to justify stealing (copying) another person's intellectual property"
Cool, do you have any scientific evidence to support that thesis?

trilogique21
May 21st 2012
408 Comments


lol

pcar
May 21st 2012
530 Comments


i always love how the first thing to toss out is "need scientific evidence" when there's no cohesive argument against a statement

not as bad as political boards, but dear god man

theacademy
Staff Reviewer
May 21st 2012
28521 Comments


its like he wrote a response to my comment

without reading it

TheFantasticDangler
May 21st 2012
1158 Comments


i HATE threads on music piracy because everyone seems to think they can ponder for 10 fucking seconds
and after theyve successfully solved the crisis and have complete understanding of how musicians make
money

Digging: The Contortionist - Language

RosaParks
May 21st 2012
14908 Comments


nice thread

Pentagon
May 21st 2012
1998 Comments


@acad: the point is artists don't get venues unless they get people from areas they play in to come out and see
them. That happens when artists market themselves effectively on social networking sites.

not to mention that the vast majority of people who feel they deserve music for free also wouldn't pay money
toward that artist anyways, shows or otherwise

stop trying to justify stealing (copying) another person's intellectual property"


theacademy
Staff Reviewer
May 21st 2012
28521 Comments


@TheFantasticDangler this isn't about how artists make money though, this is about a regression that this guy ran that says something very directly. we should be debating his methodology. not the usual stuff...




Eclecticist
May 21st 2012
3863 Comments


- "stop trying to justify stealing (copying) another person's intellectual property""

- "Cool, do you have any scientific evidence to support that thesis?"

What the fuck does that even mean? Are you saying that issue of legal jurisprudence needs to be backed up by scientifically valid information?

UGH that almost never actually happens! Science is only used in the law in criminal cases and even then it has nothing to do with a principle matter, it's for the submission of professional evidence.

in this thread: people aren't reading the article and are commenting dumb stuff (see: Evreaia, Wolfhorde)


theacademy
Staff Reviewer
May 21st 2012
28521 Comments


lol lets keep a running talley

TheFantasticDangler
May 21st 2012
1158 Comments


@acad

I know, I was just speaking generally. So many uneducated, useless opinions being tossed around in threads like these its unbearable.

pcar
May 21st 2012
530 Comments


@Pentagon:

"Its just that I wont go to a concert just because Facebook told me to go"

I think you're looking to argue without understanding what I'm saying. A band that effectively markets themselves will do things to get people to be interested, such as upload a song or two (or even a whole fucking album), in addition to perhaps showing some insight as to their development process, showing support for other artists similar to them, etc.

It's not HEY GUYS I PLAY TOMORROW AT X CUM SEE ME

fish.
Contributing Reviewer
May 21st 2012
21964 Comments


- "stop trying to justify stealing (copying) another person's intellectual property""

- "Cool, do you have any scientific evidence to support that thesis?"

What the fuck does that even mean? Are you saying that issue of legal jurisprudence needs to be backed up by scientifically valid information?

UGH that almost never actually happens! Science is only used in the law in criminal cases and even then it has nothing to do with a principle matter, it's for the submission of professional evidence.


I think he was talking about

not to mention that the vast majority of people who feel they deserve music for free also wouldn't pay money toward that artist anyways, shows or otherwise


Eclecticist
May 21st 2012
3863 Comments


@academy we certainly are going to keep a running tab

and before anyone starts trying to get at me keep in mind that I am a Law & Psychology major, so I may not be an expert but I know what the fuck I am talking about for the most part.

theacademy
Staff Reviewer
May 21st 2012
28521 Comments


@pcar (read this in a nice, calm voice) why are you talking about facebook and self-promotion in this thread

Wolfhorde
May 21st 2012
13390 Comments


Context.
"not to mention that the vast majority of people who feel they deserve music for free also wouldn't pay money toward that artist anyways, shows or otherwise"
This is the point. Generalized vague statements about "majorities" which is something every half-assed presumptuous dickhead can say about next to every kind of hot topic. Who says that these people are a majority? (I know, not mentioned but otherwise it would be an irrelevant point) What majority? And where does that info come from if not from subjective observations? You might be able to guess that "subjective observation" and talking about "majorities" doesn't mix too well.

Eclecticist
May 21st 2012
3863 Comments


"I think he was talking about

not to mention that the vast majority of people who feel they deserve music for free also wouldn't pay money toward that artist anyways, shows or otherwise"


See now that is a hypothesis, THAT should be backed up by scientific data.

TheFantasticDangler
May 21st 2012
1158 Comments


@eclecticist

im sure you werent trying to be pretentious.....but man....haha

fish.
Contributing Reviewer
May 21st 2012
21964 Comments


shut up guys I went to uni!

Wolfhorde
May 21st 2012
13390 Comments


"See now that is a hypothesis, THAT should be backed up by scientific data."
It wouldn't have made too much sense if it would've been about the "justication attempts", would it.

Eclecticist
May 21st 2012
3863 Comments


"@eclecticist

im sure you werent trying to be pretentious.....but man....haha"


Not intentionally... but some of these comments are frustrating.
General opinion is fine but shit, there is a lot of crap in the thread.

"It wouldn't have made too much sense if it would've been about the "justication attempts", would it."

What do you mean by that?


TheFantasticDangler
May 21st 2012
1158 Comments


@eclecticist

Yeah its cool, I know what you mean.

PurpleDino
May 21st 2012
3076 Comments


not to mention that the vast majority of people who feel they deserve music for free also wouldn't pay money toward that artist anyways, shows or otherwise


this simply isn't true, I pirate music, but I pay for merch and shows
the fact is, people steal music because they can, I can't steal merch or a show, so I pay

pcar
May 21st 2012
530 Comments


@ wolfhorde - so are you going to use this lack of information to suggest piracy is good or bad to continue pirating? Because people who try to pinpoint ridiculous things in arguments as a means to detract from the point are precisely the kind of people who don't care if the stuff they're stealing will have a negative impact or not

o rite need scientific data sorry

@ theacademy - Why not? I disagree with the sentiment that a paper concluding that piracy is alright for already well-known artists gives justification for all facets of music piracy, and offer up the idea that perhaps it's not the pirates but smart artists who know how to sell themselves that can lead to success.

Do you disagree?

theacademy
Staff Reviewer
May 21st 2012
28521 Comments


I neither agree nor disagree. Based on that response, I don't think you have read the paper, and I don't want to be mean to you.

DarkNoctus
Contributing Reviewer
May 21st 2012
8821 Comments


not to mention that the vast majority of people who feel they deserve music for free also wouldn't pay money toward that artist anyways, shows or otherwise


bollocks.

Digging: Darkspace - Dark Space III I

pcar
May 21st 2012
530 Comments


acad, have you even read the paper?

theacademy
Staff Reviewer
May 21st 2012
28521 Comments


yes

pcar
May 21st 2012
530 Comments


sort of doubt that for a variety of reasons

Ponton
Emeritus
May 21st 2012
5793 Comments


yes, the result for what we do justifies what we do

thank god for these studies



theacademy
Staff Reviewer
May 21st 2012
28521 Comments


right because my comments have been way off topic, the paper is really all about how bands should market themselves and use social media

pcar
May 21st 2012
530 Comments


so are you this much a moron in real life?

serious question, because I feel like you're a solid 10 years younger than you should be

and yes I'm resorting to personal attacks - it's necessary when dealing with people with that low of an apparent IQ. You're free to prove me wrong though

theacademy
Staff Reviewer
May 21st 2012
28521 Comments


im kinda blushing that you think im so young!!

you made my day sweetums

pcar
May 21st 2012
530 Comments


well i was once arrested for playing guitar

was caught fingering a minor

Sanders
May 21st 2012
2351 Comments


acad's avatar is the perfect response to most of these comments

TheFantasticDangler
May 21st 2012
1158 Comments


...

PurpleDino
May 21st 2012
3076 Comments


you're a full blown tard

pcar
May 21st 2012
530 Comments


> "you're a full blown tard"
> "people steal music because they can"

nigga please get real

I apologize for pointing out those who think piracy is somehow legitimized are wrong, rescind my statements and will enjoy the frivolous pursuit of downloading everything I can because I have a what.cd account

god, you're almost as bad as the retards who pirate video games

Eclecticist
May 21st 2012
3863 Comments


"well i was once arrested for playing guitar

was caught fingering a minor"


lol nice red herring after attacking someone

CaptainDooRight
May 21st 2012
29132 Comments


FUCK THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Digging: Kangding Ray - Solens Arc

Hyperion1001
Staff Reviewer
May 21st 2012
18480 Comments


gay thread

Digging: Recondite - Caldera/DRGN 2

pcar
May 21st 2012
530 Comments


red herring isn't exactly the best interpretation of a horrible pun

Eclecticist
May 21st 2012
3863 Comments


"red herring isn't exactly the best interpretation of a horrible pun"


...and none of your comments are an accurate interpretation of the literature review or an appropriate response to any of the comments in this thread.

PurpleDino
May 21st 2012
3076 Comments


dude you said the majority of people who pirate don't pay for shows...

how else do they go to shows? or do people who pirate not enjoy live music?

I don't think piracy is legitamised but I'm not going to get punished for it so I will carry on enjoying free music

next time try not to make blatantly false sweeping generalisations

pcar
May 21st 2012
530 Comments


guess that's your opinion

or did you not read it either?

pcar
May 21st 2012
530 Comments


@ purpledino - or most people who go to shows buy the music, listen to it legally or follow the artist for other reasons

bloc
May 21st 2012
34853 Comments


Good to know, I guess.

Digging: Interpol - El Pintor

lucasjcockcroft
May 21st 2012
3707 Comments


You could sell 7 album among 10 fans if you don't allow pirating.
But you could sell 17 albums among 50 fans if you allow it.
^this, fucking this

Shuyin
May 21st 2012
11633 Comments


'piracy increases album sales, albeit by a small percentage and mostly for critically acclaimed artists.'

this hard

Digging: Cannibal Corpse - A Skeletal Domain

CaptainDooRight
May 21st 2012
29132 Comments


gay thread[2]

AsoTamaki
May 21st 2012
2525 Comments


You could sell 7 album among 10 fans if you don't allow pirating.
But you could sell 17 albums among 50 fans if you allow it.

So sales are 70% without pirating and 34% with pirating? Artists sure are lucky to have piracy.

Voivod
Staff Reviewer
May 21st 2012
6105 Comments


On a total of 88 comments, I can hardly count 10-20 posts that are on topic here...

I could be mistaken though...

paxman
May 21st 2012
4084 Comments


This is redundant.

PurpleDino
May 21st 2012
3076 Comments


or most people who go to shows buy the music, listen to it legally or follow the artist for other reasons


I thought I said to stop making blatantly false sweeping generalisations

ConcubinaryCode
May 21st 2012
2076 Comments


whenever i download an album i enjoy, i try to buy it.
if i don't like it i just delete it

octopus3000
May 21st 2012
24 Comments



@ purpledino - or most people who go to shows buy the music, listen to it legally or follow the artist for other reasons

You just can't say that. You're just saying your opinion over and over, no facts. It's like your too self-righteous to admit when you are wrong. It's probably the other way around if anything. I think it's justafiable to download an album if I am already giving the band my money for merch and tickets

ZKG777
May 21st 2012
171 Comments


As an artist myself, I approve this message. All this should be telling you is that bands have to make REALLY good music in order to keep making money. That is a GOOD thing. Most people will buy it if they like it enough. That's what I do and that's what I expect everyone to do with my music.

sniper
May 21st 2012
19049 Comments


my only argument for file sharing is that i spend as much money on music as most of my friends who don't pirate. the only difference is that i listen to a lot more music than them. the pirating is more or less unrelated to whether i buy the album. i only buy shit from bands i'm really sure are going to impress. people who don't pirate do the same thing.

lucasjcockcroft
May 21st 2012
3707 Comments


"You could sell 7 album among 10 fans if you don't allow pirating.
But you could sell 17 albums among 50 fans if you allow it.
So sales are 70% without pirating and 34% with pirating? Artists sure are lucky to have piracy."

you completly missed the fucking point

fish.
Contributing Reviewer
May 21st 2012
21964 Comments


So sales are 70% without pirating and 34% with pirating? Artists sure are lucky to have piracy.

that's a stupid way to look at it whether it's true or not

Recspecs
May 21st 2012
9829 Comments


Didn't feel like perusing this thread, gonna go ahead and assume that it reeks of dumbassery.

HitlerIsGod
May 21st 2012
746 Comments


"All this should be telling you is that bands have to make REALLY good music in order to keep making money."

lol

FlyntFlossy
May 21st 2012
86 Comments


I make 300,000 a year so I don't pirate anything because I hate it when people pirate my music.

sifFlammable
May 21st 2012
2741 Comments


cool so pre-release sharing of critically acclaimed artists help sales thank you oh robert hammond assistant professor at north carolina state university

Acanthus
May 21st 2012
9543 Comments


I like getting music, both in physical and digital form.

Digging: Falls of Rauros - The Light That Dwells in Rotten Wood

Eclecticist
May 21st 2012
3863 Comments


"I make 300,000 a year so I don't pirate anything because I hate it when people pirate my music."

Fuck dude it must suck having so much money and being able to afford physical copies of all of the music that you like. It's a good thing that everyone makes that much money so that they can do the same and not pirate your music!

Seanny
May 21st 2012
76 Comments


It's interesting that this came up, as I just got done reading this article which shares a similar topic...

http://www.metalsucks.net/2012/05/21/80-illegal-downloaders-of-all-shall-perish-music-will-be-outed-and-sued-without-bands-permission/

Seanny
May 21st 2012
76 Comments


"I make 300,000 a year so I don't pirate anything because I hate it when people pirate my music."

Fuck dude it must suck having so much money and being able to afford physical copies of all of the music that you like. It's a good thing that everyone makes that much money so that they can do the same and not pirate your music!


Could be 300,000 yen! :D

Eclecticist
May 21st 2012
3863 Comments


http://www.metalsucks.net/2012/05/21/80-illegal-downloaders-of-all-shall-perish-music-will-be-outed-and-sued-without-bands-permission/

WOW! 80 people have to pay $150,000 U.S.!! Fuck I am glad to live in Canada :|

Acanthus
May 21st 2012
9543 Comments


My internet says I live in Canada ^_^

Or was it Sweden? I can never remember....

fish.
Contributing Reviewer
May 21st 2012
21964 Comments


http://www.metalsucks.net/2012/05/21/80-illegal-downloaders-of-all-shall-perish-music-will-be-outed-and-sued-without-bands-permission/

Just saw that on their fb

Some of the comments are retarded. Keep blaming the band

pcar
May 21st 2012
530 Comments


"I thought I said to stop making blatantly false sweeping generalisations"

sigh

i'm sorry to the rest of the earth that people as stupid as you even exist

i guess i just don't understand the drive behind purposefully causing people to not make money on stuff they legally have the right to do

but then again I'm also not a selfish child who thinks he's entitled to everything because the internet exists

please take your life or at least don't breed, for the love of all that is holy

"You just can't say that. You're just saying your opinion over and over, no facts"

And what else is there to state? The only "facts" are from a variety of opinion pieces that can conclude nothing more than already well-established artists perhaps benefit slightly from piracy, although there isn't even enough evidence to suggest this is indeed true.

Yet all you need to do is peruse various boards with piracy as some sort of thread subject to see that people will take anything like that as justification for what they do, and will happily spout off about how they support the band with "merchandise" and "concerts".

That's fucking bullshit. If you liked the artist so much, you wouldn't mind forking over 10 bucks for a digital download of some sort. Or merchandise. Or concerts.

If it's not such a blatant lie that people will generously pay for what they feel is deserving, after pirating it, then why are artists aside from those with top 10 hits living poor? If people actually pay what they owe out of the goodness of their own hearts, then why is it not reflected in reality?

Because you're liars, that's why. For every person who pays money for entertainment, a hundred others won't.

geif scientf c evidnec plZ!!!

On the plus side, those of you who actually aren't miserable human beings, support artists in various ways and abide by the law are awesome people who should continue their practices.

AsoTamaki
May 21st 2012
2525 Comments


Intense post, pcar. Good luck to whoever you're talking to.

fish.
Contributing Reviewer
May 21st 2012
21964 Comments


most people on this site still buy music even if they download it at first

AsoTamaki
May 21st 2012
2525 Comments


Do you have research to back up that claim?

Eclecticist
May 21st 2012
3863 Comments


"Do you have research to back up that claim?"

lol I like this guy

sifFlammable
May 21st 2012
2741 Comments


"most people on this site still buy music even if they download it at first"

this is simply not true

sniper
May 21st 2012
19049 Comments


if i wasn't downloading the music i wouldn't be listening to it at all so what difference does it make

sifFlammable
May 21st 2012
2741 Comments


and buying 1 cd to morally justify 100GB of dling doesnt count

bloc
May 21st 2012
34853 Comments


Is that info in that Metalsucks article actually serious? Damn.

fish.
Contributing Reviewer
May 21st 2012
21964 Comments


I still buy a shitload of CDs for the music I enjoy, probably as much as I can afford and certainly no less than I would if I couldn't download. You can't expect people to spend shitloads of money on music they probably won't like.
Youtube doesn't count because it's illegal to upload most stuff to youtube anyway, and streams don't have the same effect cos you have to stay stuck to a computer to listen to them. But if you're gonna listen to a stream, why not download it anyway?

if i wasn't downloading the music i wouldn't be listening to it at all so what difference does it make

^^

so anyone who says that isn't morally justifiable can go fuck themselves

PurpleDino
May 21st 2012
3076 Comments


pcar are you still trying to tell me that people who pirate music don't buy merch or go to shows?
because so far you have twice failed to acknowledge how wrong you are in that assumption, I would like clarification instead of an overblown, self-righteous rant against my immorality

sifFlammable
May 21st 2012
2741 Comments


anarchistfish can you stop speaking for everyone on this site

fish.
Contributing Reviewer
May 21st 2012
21964 Comments


where in that post was I talking about anyone but myself?

Acanthus
May 21st 2012
9543 Comments


I don't attempt to justify my piracy, though I could try if I so desired. I buy two CD's or more per paycheck, and the amount of music I obtain through the internet has gone down drastically since I got a job.

sifFlammable
May 21st 2012
2741 Comments


"most people on this site still buy music even if they download it at first"

"anyone who says that isn't morally justifiable can go fuck themselves"

sniper
May 21st 2012
19049 Comments


that wasn't even an argument wtf

Aids
Contributing Reviewer
May 21st 2012
23826 Comments


Yarrrrr

fish.
Contributing Reviewer
May 21st 2012
21964 Comments


"most people on this site still buy music even if they download it at first"

yeah that was in the previous post, based on observations since I've been here

"anyone who says that isn't morally justifiable can go fuck themselves"

not sure what the relevance is here

Acanthus
May 21st 2012
9543 Comments


sif is referring to the tense of the words you use(d), such as most and anyone.

This makes the statements wide and sweeping rather than just your opinion.

fish.
Contributing Reviewer
May 21st 2012
21964 Comments


the second statement isn't about opinions though..

sifFlammable
May 21st 2012
2741 Comments


what are you trying to defend yourself from exactly? you put your false idea on "most people on this
site"'s mouth, and then on the next post make sweeping statements and end it with sth that implies
"you should obviously agree with me and if you dont agree you can go fuck urself"



Ponton
Emeritus
May 21st 2012
5793 Comments


those damn pirates

been graying black and white issues since the wee 2000s

DeathsThread
May 21st 2012
214 Comments


i bought a lot more albums because i pirated.

fish.
Contributing Reviewer
May 21st 2012
21964 Comments


yeah cos I've never heard a good argument against that scenario
still don't get what these sweeping statements are, apart from that first one which may have been exaggerated but still applies to quite a few people here

sifFlammable
May 21st 2012
2741 Comments


want an example?

"You can't expect people to spend shitloads of money on music they probably won't like."

anyway thank you for reducing "most people" to "quite a few people" thats a good start

Eclecticist
May 21st 2012
3863 Comments


"those damn pirates

been graying black and white issues since the wee 2000s"


LOL

fish.
Contributing Reviewer
May 21st 2012
21964 Comments


how is "people (as individuals) don't enjoy the majority of music" wrong?


lucasjcockcroft
May 21st 2012
3707 Comments


i buy like 5 albums to ever 50 i download, but a lot of the stuff i download i would never buy, so the bands arent actually losing money.

Ponton
Emeritus
May 21st 2012
5793 Comments


...

Ponton
Emeritus
May 21st 2012
5793 Comments


did you read your post?

AsoTamaki
May 21st 2012
2525 Comments


Hahaha, man. Thanks for posting this, Voivod.

Spec
May 21st 2012
27170 Comments


http://www.metalsucks.net/2012/05/21/80-illegal-downloaders-of-all-shall-perish-music-will-be-outed-and-sued-without-bands-permission/

Speaking of piracy...

Eclecticist
May 21st 2012
3863 Comments


"http://www.metalsucks.net/2012/05/21/80-illegal-downloaders-of-all-shall-perish-music-will-be-outed-and-sued-without-bands-permission/

Speaking of piracy..."



What I want to know is how a Panama-based company has the legal authorization to act on the rights of a U.S. based artist upon U.S. citizens.

The case would have to be held in the United States because of original jurisdiction and they would have to base the trial off of U.S.A. common-law jurisprudence and legislation. Which means:

A) The trial is going to be really fucking expensive which is why I can believe that the estimated cost in damaged/trial-fee's per person will amount to $150,000

B) The Panama-based company is going to have to hire lawyers who are licensed to practice in the United States of America

There should be an American-based company other than Nuclear Blast handling this. That is just piss-poor legal management.

GuanoBumbershoot
May 21st 2012
1456 Comments


I always had a feeling this was the case in some ways. There are still people dedicated to buying physical copies of an album they enjoy. However, I still think it can help much more underground bands aswell. I've seen plenty of young bands gain much more recognition through social media, youtube, and torrenting. In cases where the band makes music a lot of people seem to enjoy, it only helps them more. eventually these bands are able to tour with more recognized bands and get their music out there. This in some way must help increase their record sales.

Spec
May 21st 2012
27170 Comments


I'd be fine with releasing stuff for free. Would just want it to be heard.

ChuckyTruant
May 21st 2012
15716 Comments


Well duh

Digging: The Contortionist - Language

Forevermore
May 21st 2012
129 Comments


> i buy like 5 albums to ever 50 i download, but a lot of the stuff i download i would never buy, so the bands arent actually losing money.

Same here. It's a convenient way of trying it before you buy it. If I enjoy the music I'll buy it, but I only end up liking maybe 5% of what I download. There are a lot of artists I never would have found if a music blog hadn't posted their album. If piracy wasn't an option you can be sure I wouldn't be throwing away my money on random artists on the off chance that I might like them.

Azn.
May 21st 2012
5609 Comments


I am a poor high school loser. Therefore piracy.

Zion
May 21st 2012
812 Comments


I buy like 1/10th of 1% of what I pirate. Whether I'd buy albums if piracy didn't exist is up in the air... and a moot point... kinda like this study.

Azn.
May 21st 2012
5609 Comments


I feel like this study will change nothing at all.

DotEight
May 21st 2012
5530 Comments


Eminem sold over 20 million copies of one album alone, along with Linkin Park, and this was just 12
years ago.

Now an artist is lucky to sell a million records. You kidding me? Retarded article.

Zion
May 21st 2012
812 Comments


Every album I have as a 5 here I have bought basically.

spillingmercury
May 21st 2012
877 Comments


Gabe's bones must be tingling because this thread has really lured all the idiots and their opinions out.

Azn.
May 21st 2012
5609 Comments


This thread is just actually mad dumb because this study is faulty. Like, disregarding other people's opinions.

LifeAsAChipmunk
May 21st 2012
4854 Comments


Why pirate when you have bandcamp and youtube?

Azn.
May 21st 2012
5609 Comments


^Not every band is on bandcamp, not every band offers free stuff on bandcamp.

Also if you're looking for terrible sound quality, then yeah, go for youtube.

LifeAsAChipmunk
May 21st 2012
4854 Comments


I was kinda being rhetorical. When I get free downloads, I get them from some friends because I'm not good with that myself.

Azn.
May 21st 2012
5609 Comments


Well...that's file sharing for ya :D

spillingmercury
May 21st 2012
877 Comments


This thread is just actually mad dumb because this study is faulty. Like, disregarding other people's opinions.

The thread could be intelligent even when the study is faulty. It's stupid because half the thread commentators saw the words "pirate" and "music" together, and vomited out their personal opinions about the topic.

LifeAsAChipmunk
May 21st 2012
4854 Comments


"This thread is just actually mad dumb"

Lol, that sentence.

"Well...that's file sharing for ya :D"

Exactly. What are friends for?

Azn.
May 21st 2012
5609 Comments


I agree. Hence, the "disregarding other people's opinions" part.

Arguing about piracy is pointless...nothing will change, a pirate's not gonna just stop pirating music.

LifeAsAChipmunk
May 21st 2012
4854 Comments


"Arguing about piracy is pointless...nothing will change, a pirate's not gonna just stop pirating music."

That's why you don't read the thread except the last 3 responses.

"Gonna pirate regardless [3]" Pretty much.

spillingmercury
May 21st 2012
877 Comments


I agree. Hence, the "disregarding other people's opinions" part.

Arguing about piracy is pointless...nothing will change, a pirate's not gonna just stop pirating music."

yo ho, a pirate's life for me...

Maniac!
May 21st 2012
26250 Comments


Threads like this are always retarded

camaraderie
May 21st 2012
988 Comments


That article seems very fake.

Dave de Sylvia
Moderator
May 21st 2012
34 Comments


Surprised nobody has pointed out that the report doesn't say piracy has the effect of increasing sales. It says an album leaking pre-release has the effect of increasing sales. It doesn't account for how the musician reacts to the leak either.

LifeAsAChipmunk
May 21st 2012
4854 Comments


"Surprised nobody has pointed out that the report doesn't say piracy has the effect of increasing sales. It says an album leaking pre-release has the effect of increasing sales. It doesn't account for how the musician reacts to the leak either."

That suggests that people actually took the time to read the article...

Hospital
May 21st 2012
2058 Comments


Mediafire rules d00d

zaruyache
May 21st 2012
6475 Comments


Actually mediafire kinda sucks now. They nuke links far more frequently since megaupload bit the dust.

Digging: Alpha Male Tea Party - Droids

Dominatus
May 21st 2012
17 Comments


UNC > NC State + Duke - Is relevant

Hyperion1001
Staff Reviewer
May 21st 2012
18480 Comments


mediafire doesnt kill the links if you dont name it NEW DEATHS GRIPS DOWNLOAD HERE FROM MY BLOGSPOT like idiots

CaptainDooRight
May 21st 2012
29132 Comments


you'd think people would catch on by now

pcar
May 22nd 2012
530 Comments


why would anybody even pirate death grips

talk about staining the computer forever

liledman
May 22nd 2012
3826 Comments


so many people not taking in the info, as de sylvia said.

the fact that the report apparently proves that an album sold more or less because it leaked is fallacious; there are no alternate outcomes in equally controlled environments which you can compare. anyway, many artists say taking down leaks/links from blogs during the first few weeks of a release actually help sales (that's the whole motivation behind it).

have a gander and read up all of you militant pirates: http://thetrichordist.wordpress.com/2012/04/15/meet-the-new-boss-worse-than-the-old-boss-full-post/

the point about society owning all of the art, in a communist way, is very ironic considering the general american phobia of the word.

i feel that any artist should be happy to have fans, to be heard, and appreciated, whether people are buying their product or not. having said that, we need to find some way to help artists make a living, because that means more focus on music, not economics. a balance needs to be struck between openly accessible art and an industry of artists being supported, without the need for big business or purely capital interests at play. funding of the arts needs to be addressed (kudos to alec baldwin).

Deviant.
Staff Reviewer
May 22nd 2012
31169 Comments


You can't beat me kid, I'm Alec Baldwin

Digging: LV and Joshua Idehen - Islands

Hyperion1001
Staff Reviewer
May 22nd 2012
18480 Comments


liledman being the voice of reason as usual

fish.
Contributing Reviewer
May 22nd 2012
21964 Comments


It's actually been ages since I tried to access a mediafire file only for it to have already been deleted. It's become more buggy but that's probably on my end.

Surprised nobody has pointed out that the report doesn't say piracy has the effect of increasing sales. It says an album leaking pre-release has the effect of increasing sales.


I did kinda say this earlier

LasNoches
May 22nd 2012
35 Comments


"piracy increases album sales, albeit by a small percentage and mostly for critically acclaimed artists."

You've heard it first here, record labels! Now you have no excuse to sign such shit artists.

omnipanzer
May 22nd 2012
21451 Comments


Should follow it up with this news item:

http://gizmodo.com/5912226/supreme-court-lets-students-675000-file+sharing-fine-stand

RoyRogersMcFreely
May 22nd 2012
11 Comments


This thread made my day. Thanks people and especially thanks to pcar; you sir are one angry little fella.

dbizzles
May 22nd 2012
298 Comments


I usually pirate shit to see if I like the album enough to pay for it or if I already paid for an album and lost it or if it is scratched all to shit from years if overplaying and abuse.
Most of the shit I pirate and don't like gets deleted, not shared- no harm done there because I am not going to be supporting a band I don't like. If I DID already pay for it, why the hell should I have to again? Even if it is my fault that I didn't rip the CD or take good enough care of it, it should still be my right to own the music forever.
Also, the bands I end up enjoying a lot after my piracy previews usually will eventually be on the receiving end of payment for the concert tickets and merch I will purchase if they actually even come to Utah. So, while it may be 'damaging' sales overall, I don't give any shits because I am sick of paying $15 for a shit album that can't even be returned.
This is payback for all the years of overpriced garbage I spent money on as a teenager.

dbizzles
May 22nd 2012
298 Comments


And, NO, I didn't read the paper.
I read this article and responded with justification for why I pirate music.

Please analyze me.

AsoTamaki
May 22nd 2012
2525 Comments


If I DID already pay for it, why the hell should I have to again? Even if it is my fault that I didn't rip the CD or take good enough care of it, it should still be my right to own the music forever.
Lol.

Analysis: you are a fool.

Dave de Sylvia
Moderator
May 22nd 2012
34 Comments


Also, the bands I end up enjoying a lot after my piracy previews usually will eventually be on the receiving end of payment for the concert tickets and merch I will purchase if they actually even come to Utah.

Maybe more bands would actually come to Utah if more actual people in Utah actually paid for CDs.

dbizzles
May 22nd 2012
298 Comments


Dave: I DO buy the CDs, dipshit.
Aso: Please expound as to why I'm a fool for thinking my music should expire after purchasing it.

AsoTamaki
May 22nd 2012
2525 Comments


You bought a disc containing the music. You own the disc. You didn't purchase the master recordings of the music to do with as you please. If you lost the disc, you own nothing.

dbizzles
May 22nd 2012
298 Comments


Aso: You're a total ass
So, if I buy digitally and have the music forever on my harddrive our a cloud, you equate that to purchasing the master recordings? Since they can't be lost or damaged in the same way files in a compact disc can?
I guess I just got schooled.

AsoTamaki
May 22nd 2012
2525 Comments


Indeed. I hope you learned something.

Lol, dude. It's the same thing when buying digitally. You own those particular files. Not every copy of the album in every format that exists. If your hard drive or whatever gets wrecked, then you're screwed just the same. Some places let you re-download things, but that's it. If you bought music on iTunes, you can't go on Amazon and be like "uh, my files got deleted so let me download them for free," can you? Nor can you walk into your local store and take a copy of the CD.

fish.
Contributing Reviewer
May 22nd 2012
21964 Comments


Downloads aren't finite, you can't compare illegally downloading to taking CDs.

On a practical level, I don't see what's wrong with just redownloading if you've already paid for the music, which is what paying for downloads and CDs ultimately are.

dbizzles
May 22nd 2012
298 Comments


Just because companies won't let you re-download something you already paid for so they can make even more profit, it doesn't mean their decisions are justified either.
So, I just download these things illegally instead and that is how I justify my own actions. I don't intend to speak for anyone else.

Ommushwo
May 22nd 2012
112 Comments


-Without piracy(love the word) I wouldn't have been able to listen to at least half of the music I have in my library.
-Without piracy I wouldn't have known them at all.
-Without piracy I wouldn't have the taste and knowledge of culture I'm so proud of.
-Without piracy I wouldn't play Barry White songs in my head while boning.
-Without piracy I would've continued buying CDs, without realizing only about 5-10% of the price would've gone to the artists. Imagine being in a 5 member band.
-Without piracy I wouldn't have gone to awesome festivals and concerts so that those artists and me are even.
-Without piracy I would regret half of my purchases, then contribute to global warming by setting them on fire.
-Without piracy I wouldn't have access to foreign media that I find interesting.
-Without piracy I would have to watch the foreign media I do have access to in french.
-Without piracy I wouldn't have been encouraged to still buy albums if I see the merit.
-I tried buying without piracy once, and bought a Ramones CD.

UnnamedOcean
May 22nd 2012
3966 Comments


Exposure>Album sales.

Azn.
May 22nd 2012
5609 Comments


Well then. Shiver me timbers.

cloudnx
May 22nd 2012
35 Comments


CD righteousness!!

CrimsonLies
May 23rd 2012
2021 Comments


I torrent music and if I like it enough, I go out and buy it.

If it weren't for torrenting, I wouldn't know more than half the bands I listen to.

NorwichScene
May 23rd 2012
1429 Comments


I would never have bought have the CD's I have if I didn't have Sputnik and torrents

Digging: Lonely the Brave - The Day's War

ModHunter
May 23rd 2012
58 Comments


wut wut wut

Voivod
Staff Reviewer
May 23rd 2012
6105 Comments


For those of you that are on universities and campuses and have access to peer reviewed journals, here is a 2008 paper dealing with the subject.



Author: Alessandro Balestrino

Title: It Is A Theft But Not A Crime

Journal: European Journal of Political Economy (Elsevier Editions)

Volume: 24

Year: 2008

Pages: 455-469

Voivod
Staff Reviewer
May 23rd 2012
6105 Comments


Here is another one:



Authors: Felix Oberholzer-Gee and Koleman S. Strumpf

Title: The Effect Of File Sharing On Record Sales: An Empirical Analysis

Journal: Journal of Political Economy (The University Of Chicago Press)

Volume: 115

Year: 2007

Pages: 1-42


link to the full paper: http://www.hss.caltech.edu/~mshum/ec106/strumpf.pdf

ModHunter
May 23rd 2012
58 Comments






























































wut

BlueW
May 23rd 2012
2095 Comments


I ish pirate no matter wut

BlueW
May 23rd 2012
2095 Comments


cuz pirates are cool and suffer from scurvy, y'know?

dbizzles
May 23rd 2012
298 Comments


^^^
Yep.

ModHunter
May 23rd 2012
58 Comments


Pirates gonna pirate

Ommushwo
May 23rd 2012
112 Comments


The bilgerats!



You have to be logged in to post a comment. Login | Create a Profile





MOST VIEWED NEWS

Kanye West causes uproar
She has learned everything...
Avenged Sevenfold release new vid..
xSPONGEXCOREx announce new EP
Manchester Orchestra Hope
Motionless in White debut new vid..
Foo Fighters tease 'Outsides'
The Ghost Inside detail new album
Today Is The Day debut new song
Unearth release new song


OTHER RECENT NEWS

Stream Hammock's Sleepover 2
Dance Gavin Dance stream new song
Burn The Sun stream debut EP
Zodiac stream Sonic Child
I The Mighty vocalist goes solo
GWAR reveal David Brockie's repla..
Superfood set release date for ne..
Another Exotype single
Monster Magnet re-imagine album
The Amity Affliction debut new vi..
Dungortheb stream new album
New Decapitated track
Spain's Horizon stream debut album
Orphans of Dusk stream debut EP
New Chief Keef song

» see all news

FAQ // STAFF & CONTRIBUTORS // SITE FORUM // CONTACT US

Bands: A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T U V W X Y Z


Site Copyright 2005-2014 Sputnikmusic.com
All Album Reviews Displayed With Permission of Authors | Privacy Policy