Should be a rewarding and engaging listen

Of course they're just going to look at the number of digital downloads of the mega-successful artists to justify their rhetoric. Sad they refuse to look at the broader picture.

Well I mean, its the RIAA. When have they ever cared about [insert struggling little-known indie band here]?

bands dont need record companies anymore

the riaa can go rot in hell

I mean, seriously. The last huge album that the RIAA has had was The Carter III. They keep spitting out shit and expecting people to buy it in mass numbers like it was Dark Side of the Moon again or something.

Let's occupy this dude's house.

strangely, the RIAA's website is currently down (no idea how that happened....)

Kill it with fire.

the riaa can go rot in hell

he could have finished that blog a lot sooner if he just put 'we did it because we want more money.'

^ i might second that (the bomb comment)

"In a blogpost entitled 'Why Closing Megaupload Matters'"

what a prick

well shit

RIAA Issues Statement: http://youtu.be/EPuCY1KF9nM

"Why Closing Megaupload helps us and not music artists"

Fucking faggots.

wow

Hasn't this guy ever been told to go suck a fuck

History in front of us, I'd say. There's this very strong lead, that the rest of the world is
following.

My question is, when do we stop having possibility to use web as we wish.

"enables great new services to be launched – like Spotify, which launched in the US last year and quickly signed up millions of new users."

i got an email newsletter from mode records, a new york based modern classical independent label, detailing the pitfalls of these streaming services. yeah its a label complaining, but remember they own the copyright for the recording. anyway:

"As an example, Mode had 28,060 streams via one of these services in January and we were paid a total of $6.2034!"

so i guess its safe to assume that the artists are making fuck all from those types of sites.

It'd be ridiculous if that happens considering the owner isn't the one uploading or downloading the material, and filesharing is completely legitimate provided it's not breaching copyright. I know that's why everyone uses these sites but that's not the fault of the owner.

To use an analogy, it's like....well it's like something.

god this guy is such a cunt

All streaming services are is legal pirating. Artists get jack from it, there's a nice little graphic out there I wish I could find which shows just how much artists make from all of these services (Pandora, Last.FM, Spotify, etc), I want to say it's in the ball park of 0.0003 cents per play.

"Collectively, this evidence strongly suggests that the shutdown of illegal sites helps create a thriving and diverse digital marketplace."

what the fuck is the difference when the artists themselves make fuck all either way

i'd rather not give you bastards any and get the songs for free, then go to newly discovered bands' shows to support them

I know that's why everyone uses these sites but that's not the fault of the owner.

lick my crusty asshole

I'm gonna sue all car companies because their vehicles allow people to break the law.

Smaller bands still need labels. You guys have no idea how expensive physical media is to create.
Especially when it comes down to things like vinyl. Most of the smaller bands you listen don't make
money. They work real jobs so that they can pay for their band. Even bigger bands. Take Thursday for
example. Those dudes were broke and if I remember right half of that band was living in their
practice space because they couldn't afford rent anymore. Even more when a band tours they don't
make money, they hope to god that they break even. Even bands on decent sized tours. Take for
example all those medium sized bands that you see playing on packed bills at places like the house
of blues and shit. The headliner gets around 600 per show in their guarantee but the support gets
about 200-300. then that band has to factor in their gas cost to get to the next show in a van that
gets 10mpg. then after that you have to split that money 4 to 6 ways. and that's not even taking
into account paying for all the physical product/vehicle maintenance/food/lodging/booking manager
etc etc etc that goes into it. now think of your DIY bands that go out there and fund their tours
for a quarter of the door or on donation or for 50 dollar guarantees. they're fucking boned. theres
no money in music at all unless you really make it huge. then once you already have a massive
fanbase you can dictate your terms, but until then it's fucking survival.


oh and i forgot to mention that they get fucked on merch too because not only do most headliners set
the merch prices in order to make their own shirts look like a better deal, the venues take up to
half of the money on merch sales as their percentage.

this is bafflingly stupid

@Zion
Tell me, how exactly does one suck a fuck?

Want to hear this Kim album. Lolz will be had.

"He knew perfectly well what his service was largely used for and would profit from encouraging it."

True. I haven't read those allegations. If I was the owner under fire, I'd hire a clever lawyer and argue that the site is just a vehicle for (ideally legitimate) filesharing. Any piracy that occurs is the fault of the users and that they actively take down links in breach of copyright at the request of labels etc. It's kind of ridiculous that these guys take the fall I think. It's pretty lazy and unfair really to stamp out these sites but just a much easier solution than trying to go after all of us individually.

It's an inconvenience to me. I understand them wanting to look after their shit and not have people acquire it for free (alot of people don't seem to understand that). I think they're going about it the wrong way but it's obvious that they don't really know how to react.

"Smaller bands still need labels. You guys have no idea how expensive physical media is to create. Especially when it comes down to things like vinyl. Most of the smaller bands you listen don't make money. They work real jobs so that they can pay for their band. Even bigger bands. Take Thursday for example. Those dudes were broke and if I remember right half of that band was living in their practice space because they couldn't afford rent anymore. Even more when a band tours they don't make money, they hope to god that they break even. Even bands on decent sized tours. Take for example all those medium sized bands that you see playing on packed bills at places like the house of blues and shit. The headliner gets around 600 per show in their guarantee but the support gets about 200-300. then that band has to factor in their gas cost to get to the next show in a van that gets 10mpg. then after that you have to split that money 4 to 6 ways. and that's not even taking into account paying for all the physical product/vehicle maintenance/food/lodging/booking manager etc etc etc that goes into it. now think of your DIY bands that go out there and fund their tours for a quarter of the door or on donation or for 50 dollar guarantees. they're fucking boned. theres no money in music at all unless you really make it huge. then once you already have a massive fanbase you can dictate your terms, but until then it's fucking survival."

This so much.

"theres no money in music at all unless you really make it huge."

thats why you do it because you love it. and with the advent of the internet your music doesn't absolutely need physical releases to be heard by many people. physical releases can come with time, record companies no longer need to exist for exposure

JAV wins.

digital media helps you get your name out there, yes, but it doesnt help you when you're touring. that was a big part of my argument. also labels get you media exposure that throwing your shit up on bandcamp cant, that being print media. im not advocating things like the major players but there are a ton of people who put in hard work helping bands survive who work for or run labels even if it's just someone in their garage.

lololololololo JAV

JAV wins.

JAV doesn't win you're all just dumb so you think his analogy works

actually i just liked it for teh lulz

"im not advocating things like the major players but there are a ton of people who put in hard work helping bands survive who work for or run labels even if it's just someone in their garage."

i was thinking about this earlier actually, because there are actually some really cool labels out there. but my guess is that they would have to be small enough and be run by a person that has the same idea of music consumption as the bands do. i like to see it as a music collective, kind of like a commune, rather than a label if that makes any sense at all

so basically you're throwing large sized labels like epitaph/anti, merge, fat wreck, arts & crafts, southern lord and vagrant under the bus even though they promote their asses off and work insanely hard for their bands just because they are a for-profit business? that's pretty asinine.

everyone go buy some Love American shirts!!!

not exactly my idea of large labels but alright we can go with that

well, they are on the bigger sizes of their respective genres and deal with millions of dollars in sales/inventory.

it happens all the time and is standard practice. you're just oblivious to it. im not talking about
things like DIY tours and playing punk houses and shit, but if you play at the house of blues or the
roxy or the key club or the whiskey or the viper room or the el rey or the avalon or the music box
this is exactly what happens.

what i meant was that the labels can be condensed enough to be run with the artist still basically controlling almost everything that goes on with his or her band. all the labels you listed fall under that category for me.

but i still believe that the the internet has much more power when it comes to exposure than most people give it credit. so much so that physical sales would benefit from the large amount of exposure free digital transfer actually does offer. were not talking about people stealing cd's here, were basically talking about a mass scale "hey bro can you burn tha cd for me?" "filesharing" basically existed before the internet in a different form, but now it has become a much more organized process

Bands do need record labels to an extent, but what they DON'T need is the fucking RIAA. RIAA doesn't care about the artists at all, only the money in their pockets. I'm totally for an anti-piracy solution, I hate not supporting the artists I love, but I refuse to pay 10-15 dollars an album when the artists themselves get little profit from it, and I hardly ever get to preview the album in its entirety before purchase.

You give me a reasonably priced anti-piracy solution, one that even someone that downloads as much music as I do can afford, then I will GLADLY jump on board.

@andcas read this http://www.altpress.com/features/entry/expensive_white_ts_the_politics_of_price_matching

is RIAA a post-rock band or something

so much so that physical sales would actually benefit from the large amount of exposure free digital transfer actually does offer.

^^^actually, there is precedent for that, and someone even cited it:

Carter III

(obviously not the norm though lol)

Joshua P. Friedlander talks about a possible rise in digital music sales, similar to what happened in the aftermath of Limewire's demise in 2010.

the people that used limewire were the only ones that listened to their shitty music

who the fuck downloaded music via megaupload anyway?

ugh my eyes

i was gonna say something about the subject, but i think ill keep staring at emim's avatar instead.

What turds.

satellite proving why hes a shitty user itt

also lol piracy

...

@satty i do but it would be nice if you disagree to actually provide a counterpoint argument rather than something like that. i mean, i really dont know why anymore, but i like to actually discuss things on this site

lol this thread was doomed when someone commented:

wow could this be more biased

yeah im not talking about DIY tours. im talking about things like the tours you see advertised in a quarter panel of altpress or AMP

let's just hug it out and go back to being friends

"It encourages users to go to legitimate sites, and enables great new services to be launched"

and ironically megaupload was about to launch a legitimate site for music before you closed the fucking site

idiots

but yr claim had no basis in reality. i don't think i need to write an essay to back up the fact that what you said makes no sense. instead i'll post a chart...

http://tinyurl.com/787t68j

youre implying that the decline is 100% due to piracy

it's a much larger story than just napster... the music industry got RAPED by Apple.

hey sat[2]

nah i didn't mean imply that per se, but there isn't a single factor more responsible for the industry's decline than piracy. i mean, logic dictates that people used to buy albums because that was the only way of attaining music, and now that's not the case.

btw i download a shitload of music illegally and i don't lose any sleep and i'm not trying to make it look like i give a shit about the riaa.

hi coneren new user dildozer

that chart is all well and good, but it doesnt encompass the entire picture. im mainly concerned with musicians who make music which is still valued on physical format. me as an example, ive spent more money in the years that ive had access the the wealth of information on the internet that i ever did before, because i value having albums i like on something worth it. piracy may not help the big guys, but i still believe that it does help out the little guys to some extent

i know that, and i'm not even really defending Hyperion's point (because its impractical)... all i'm saying is that there is some truth to the wild rationalizations of benevolent pirates/criminal audiophiles

well yeah, i mean hardcore music fans and vinyl nerds like the people who populate music websites like this one obviously benefit from using filesharing to make more informed purchases and discover more music than previously possible, but we're by far the minority.

i still believe that it does help out the little guys to some extent

also im not saying that piracy per se if the best method of getting your band recognized, but the way music, and most information for that matter, is being transferred has been completely revolutionized. piracy is just one of the first forms because the old ways are essentially still in place.

And as, if you're playing at really decent sized venue, they are definitely going to take a cut

"it just lowers the bar. trading off more exposure (and thus, more bands) with a lower aggregate sales volume."

ill would agree with that point

but the way music, and most information for that matter, is being transferred has been completely revolutionized.

@dev im not sure i understand. i meant the fact that information from all across the globe can be transported essentially anywhere in a very very short amount of time to many people as opposed to before the internet existed.

“Collectively, this evidence strongly suggests that the shutdown of illegal sites helps create a thriving and diverse digital marketplace”, claims Friedlander.

Do they really think they can pass that off as their motive? I am fucking insulted.

You're talking about how how information regarding an artist can be accessed by anyone in the world now (the internet etc) and how that has been revolutionized. While that might be true, I believe that the old school way of simply talking about and hyping these struggling artists surpasses all these revolutionary new ways to access music for free

yeah, of course, most of the music i like i heard because someone somewhere said, dude check out this band. and thats essentially whats happening on the internet, just look at the way blogs have sort of taken over this role.

is that english

yeah, of course, most of the music i like i heard because someone somewhere said, dude check out this band. and thats essentially whats happening on the internet, just look at the way blogs have sort of taken over this role.

hahah 'mates sharing with other mates'

sputnik's annual civil/informed discussion itt

you guys cant tell but im wearing a tie and nice shoes

I'm just saying, I'm immensely proud of the fact that I, along with a few others were able to help Swarms raise enough money through the attention that we gave them to give Old Raves End a vinyl run. That would never have happened if it were just blogs posting a dl link

the problem i have with that though is that you dont necessarily agree with everyone all of the time. the power to physically listen to an entire album before you buy an have your own opinion is a powerful thing.

thats why i have the utmost respect for bands that stream their albums in full with good quality before release. thats one of the best ways to get paying customers.

once again, im not necessarily saying that piracy is "good" per se, just that it is essentially the harbinger of a new era of information consumption, and the old ways are going to have to be phased out in light of the new ways of doing things

yeah, that is pretty rad dev. i'd like to think that my incessantly hyping bands like btmi/laura + the cans/the state lottery has resulted in at least a drop in the bucket for them.

i'd like to be known for more than just contributing sporadic dick jokes, is what i'm saying.

And see, now this is where you and me end up in heated argument. I'm not disagreeing with you, and to be honest I download shit all the time so I can hear it and make a conscious decision as to whether or not I'm going to buy the album. But I download it because the link is right there in front of me, if it wasn't I'd just go to their website, or soundcloud or whatever. Downloading has only become such an enormous entity because it is so much simpler than anything else

dude u should be proud... but also i think your debate with hyperion may not be what it seems... it may be a question of semantics

for example, when most people discuss "the effect of the blogosphere on the music industry," they're including sites like sputnik, pitchfork, absolutepunk, etc... online publications (in general) are what i think hyperion was referring to... any site with the element of user-generated or community-generated content that spreads awareness of an artist's craft... not just individual blogs posting download links

Well me personally, I wouldn't put RollingPitchNik in the same category as "some kid's blog"

well WE wouldn't

but the people running numbers for the RIAA do

I actually went on a spree of buying CDs (when I had the funds) of small artists who I had previously pirated. I read an interview with one of my all time favorite artists, who releases everything on his own tiny label, in which he said "music is all I do. It's what puts food on my table." Now, I could argue (poorly), "do it cause you love it" and steal his music, but that did kinda make me think about it, so I bought his stuff. I generally try to use the listen to preview as a rule of thumb now. If I listen to something and it's meh, I don't usually waste my HD space keeping it. If it's awesome, I buy it.*

*well I try damnit...

I agree that the internet has made it easier to find new bands, but there were plenty of ways before it came around. Mtv
played actual music videos, the radio played a more diverse selection of artists, there were tons of music magazines that
all featured a review section and often came with label-backed samplers. Century Media, for example, released a
compilation every year that was just $1.99 and was full of artists no one had ever heard.

when i read "blogosphere" in print media about music i assume it's talking about sites like this included, just like when I read it regarding politics i assume they really mean "the huffington post says..."

i always just assume it's a meaningless buzzword that journalists like to resort to

i think we disagree on less than you think, because i essentially agree with what you said. and i really enjoy the fact that you satty and acad actually discussed this. things can get a little heated on here sometimes, as were all well aware of.

now one of the things i do think downloading and filesharing has that is absolutely a positive is the sharing of rarities. and by that i mean things that are just no longer in print. those are the kinds of things i am really glad i was able to find and actually download.

once again, im not necessarily saying that piracy is "good" per se, just that it is essentially the harbinger of a new era of information consumption, and the old ways are going to have to be phased out in light of the new ways of doing things

punk-o-rama comps

/nostalgia

Mtv played actual music videos

--@willie, I actually miss the days when you had to get off your fat ass to find out about a band. --

I remember when I was little and I would go to the grocery store with my mom whenever she went shopping and just stand in the magazine aisle reading music magazines for their reviews of stuff I had never heard, and I'd write down the interesting ones and wait for the weekend to skate down to a CD store that was like a mile and a half away (not in the snow uphill both ways, this is San Diego) to try to find a few of them. If they didn't click immediately, it didn't matter because that's all you had for another week or two so you tried and tried again and eventually a lot of them would click.

ehh i tend to not give a shit about music videos anyways, especially metal, because it usually consists of 5 dudes headbanging in some morbid area for a few minutes

id much rather watch a band playing live with good quality than a music video

that being said there are awesome music videos out there

i reverse engineered my music taste from the weird al parodies

Edit because Sputnik decided to massacre the formatting of my post. Megarage.

no that's circular

no that's circular

hahaha same

does anybody know if the new 90210 is worth watching?

i'm going to go make some pizza rolls

--@willie, I grew up in socal as well so that was also the story of my life. I used to ride my bike down to a tower records or get lost in virgin at the block in orange like an adventure.--

We had indie stores like Off the Record and Lou's Records that had all kinds of obscure punk and alternative, and then Blue Meanie Records a little bit inland that was nothing but random obscure metal (owned by the drummer of Psychotic Waltz). But I never wasted a chance to get into Tower Records in Long Beach whenever I got old enough to drive.

i want to watch flyin ryan

JAV doesn't win you're all just dumb so you think his analogy works

Let's watch flyin ryan together

There sure are a lot of people who think they're entitled to free music.

Lol. No one is entitled to free music, but only a fool wouldn't love free music and how easy things are now.

in comes captain gabe to set us all straight

This is just an extension of his never-ending crusade to defend every mainstream pop artist. They've been losing money!

i would obviously suffer from not having file-sharing when it comes to consuming music but i would also feel pretty good about it via adam's posts

What RIAA did will deteriorate sales in the long run.

Those who buy records with a certain rate, because the had first listened to it through file sharing, will buy less records now, as they are going to be less aware of records they might like owning in physical format.

In principle one who does buy records, may read a great and objective review about a record, but listening to it will finally convince him to buy or not to buy.


Those who wouldn't buy anything anyway, the will continue doing the same.

people need to buy more CDs, it's a more rewarding experience (and maybe lower the price in some of regions of the world, instead of converting the US/UK market price, where people have lower salaries)

"I mean, seriously. The last huge album that the RIAA has had was The Carter III. They keep spitting out shit and expecting people to buy it in mass numbers like it was Dark Side of the Moon again or something."

yeah and the last diamond record was like a decade ago...

Liars.

What happened to the good ol' days? Oh wait...

$30 AU for a decent CD around here. And they wonder why the industry is dying.

@Aso: Yeah. Fuck anything that isn't giving my baby Ke$ha all the money she deserves.

you can all pirate Katy Perry, though. Fuck her.

fuck that im tired of paying a dollar for 1 fuckin song

gabe how old are you like 10?

12, why?

$30 AU for a decent CD around here. And they wonder why the industry is dying.




There, the situation described in one sentence.

Question is how are artist now gonna leak their matarial?

CDs are cheaper in most cases than they were 20 years ago. The price of everything else has gone up.

Haha, gabe...

CDs are cheaper in most cases than they were 20 years ago.

If you are buying from the net, probably yes.

If you are buying from retail stores, though, chances are you will be robbed...

Eh, not in my experience. I know there are the dedicated record stores that may sell music at a premium, but even those tend to be at the price CDs used to be. It's certainly not more expensive. There are more stores like Best Buy where you may not be able to find your underground favorites, but there is still a fairly wide selection. Also, as you say, there is the net. Most artists (especially the smaller ones) will have something set up where you can purchase directly through their website.

CDs in France (not sure about other eurozone countries) are ridiculousy expensive. Seen them for €20-30, and that seems to be the norm. Not just for new CDs either

CDs in France (not sure about other eurozone countries) are ridiculousy expensive. Seen them for €20-30, and that seems to be the norm. Not just for new CDs either

In Greece the prices are steadily between €16-20, even for records issued 10-15 years ago.

What is the point in charging a 10-15 year old record €16-20, it is beyond me...

CDs in France (not sure about other eurozone countries) are ridiculousy expensive. Seen them for €20-30, and that seems to be the norm. Not just for new CDs either

i was gonna say something about the subject, but i think ill keep staring at emim's avatar instead. [2]

But yes, this still helps no one but the RIAA

Fuck this shit. RIAA can suck it.

Who cares about the RIAA's opinion

Maye if they learn to harness the power of the Internet instead of just shunning it away and closing sites things would be better. 1.29 a song on iTunes is BS

2012 so far is a fuckin train wreck

Pirating music on the Internet is my one moment of feeling like a badass for breaking the law in any given week, even weed is decriminalized here. Whenever I download an album online Wanted Dead Or Alive plays in my head

F you Lars

I pirated the upsides by the wonder years, I now own a vinyl of that album, four shirts, a hoodie, a poster banner thing, the cd of suburbia and have seen them live twice, all because someone on here hyped them so much and I decided to check them out as I wouldn't lose anything by pirating, thanks to andcas btw

"All streaming services are is legal pirating. Artists get jack from it, there's a nice little graphic out there I wish I could find which shows just how much artists make from all of these services (Pandora, Last.FM, Spotify, etc), I want to say it's in the ball park of 0.0003 cents per play."

http://www.informationisbeautiful.net/2010/how-much-do-music-artists-earn-online/

I think you might be talking about this one? It's clear why small labels dropped out of the Spotify service once they realized that they (and their artists) would make no money and that their already diminutive album sales would shrink even more.

i can't help you fix yourself


but at least i can say i tried




















i'm sorry but i've got to move on with my own life

Century Media, for example, released a
compilation every year that was just $1.99 and was full of artists no one had ever heard.

Streaming services do NOT make any money for artists.

For eg: Jon Hopkins tweeted that he got paid £8 for 90000 plays by spotify!

The RIAA is still stuck in the late 90's - early 00's, when it wasn't uncommon for an album to sell millions of copies in a matter of a few weeks.

But they need to get with the program. Those days are long gone. I can guarantee you there will never be another album that will break 10 million copies in hard sales like Eminem, OutKast, and Linkin Park did in the turn of the millennium.

Just pirate the music you want and if you want to support the band, contact them and tell them you want to donate $10-$20 for their music so that they directly get 100%. I assure you it works and most bands are thrilled.

I has the diariaa

I can guarantee you there will never be another album that will break 10 million copies in hard sales

21 by Adele has sold 17 million so far. Worldwide mind you, but I know it's the biggest album in the UK in a long time

Nah, you're forgetting the Scorpions have a new album coming out.

Streaming services like Spotify don't make the artists any money directly, but I've bought about a dozen CDs that I've been able to hear through that service. CDs that I wouldn't have ever thought about downloading to check out.

I can see the appeal of Spotify, but honestly I just use blogs/Sputnik/Beatport for most of my music updates.

Just putting this out there, but I've bought at least a dozen if not more CDs that I've downloaded first.

Streaming services like Spotify not really helping artists directly isn't really that big of a deal considering they get their money through live shows rather than sales

Which is a bullshit justification for stealing music that you would otherwise buy.

I don't see a point in attempting to justify stealing music anymore, eventually the social value will
change and it won't be such a faux pas anymore. Until then enjoy your tunes, and buy when you can.

Hopefully that never comes true.

i love how they try to make it sound like they give a shit about the artists

"Which is a bullshit justification for stealing music that you would otherwise buy. "

yea man why would anybody want to go see awesome artists live

Go see them live, but it doesn't justify stealing something they've produced.

Hopefully that never comes true.

I can understand this, at the same time I'd have to think long and hard about whether I can agree or not. I definitely enjoy the artists who release things for free, at the same time I enjoy how Beatport does music sales and if I had more money could live just fine with a similar business model.

Perhaps the artists will pave the way for change, whether it be completely free or a more acceptable fee.

That's the issue. The record labels ripped people off for so long with inflated prices and albums full of filler that backlash was inevitable. Unfortunately the artists are feeling the backlash not the labels and greedy execs. When's the last time one of them didn't get their bonus?

"Go see them live, but it doesn't justify stealing something they've produced. "

I guess that's just too bad. CD sales pale in comparison to merchandise, live show sales and media spots. Programs like Spotify and sites like Megaupload are what get otherwise completely unknown artists out there.

I know, and I'm not sure what the artists themselves can do about it tbh

Which is a bullshit justification for stealing music that you would otherwise buy.

@pcar: that's all true, but if you would buy a CD but don't because you can steal it off the Internet then there's no excuse no matter how much other shit you buy.

Great booklets sell albums... Just sayin'

Unless you weren't talking to me, Trey, in which case GO [insert sports team]

@emim: if you wouldn't have listened to it then you wouldn't have bought it, which falls outside of what I'm talking about.

"@pcar: that's all true, but if you would buy a CD but don't because you can steal it off the Internet then there's no excuse no matter how much other shit you buy. "

Let's not get too carried away. Legality isn't a moral issue. Programs like Spotify that "steal" from artists are just as legal as downloading from Megaupload is illegal. Hopefully I'm not misinterpreting what you're saying.

I agree that services like Spotify are grey areas. They're legal but the only reason they're tolerated is because the labels are desperate at this point. If music sales were good Spotify couldn't exist. On the other hand, I do use Spotify because I'm human like everyone else and it's easier to convince myself to buy something attached to Spotify than to buy something I've already downloaded free and clear.

Hey guys mediafire is still up go download a shit ton of new music and shut your pie holes love you

spree

what.cd spreeeee [:

yay, i got on a couple days ago :]

i can't upload torrents b/c my mac is being dumb though :[