Hurricanslash: I Don't Believe In Bad Music

Hurricanslash 02.21.14	List is recent jams/albums I own. Whassup?
BMDrummer 02.21.14	I agree, but this thread is going to be controversial. You probably expected that though.
CalculatingInfinity 02.21.14	Should have figured this out earlier, also 3 is great.
Diglett 02.21.14	i wish other people shared this sentiment but we're on sputnikmusic where that is impossible
Duckman118 02.21.14	I don't want to sound like an elitist but there is such a thing as "bad music". For example, blood on the dance floor makes music that requires no talent, no effort, and no passion. There is tons of shitty music out there, although it absolutely your right to like something shitty. But that doesn't make it good, you just happen to enjoy bad music.
chemicalmarriage 02.21.14	I feel the same way but every once in a while I just have to say god damn this shit sucks cuz I'm a shit person
NordicMindset 02.21.14	3 rules
BigHans 02.21.14	6 rules
Hurricanslash 02.21.14	@Duckman118: Well shucks, I actually enjoyed their last album. And I don't think it is half-bad. But okay, I don't want to start a fight. It's all in good opinion.
Calc 02.21.14	yep bad music exists, just like bad children, bad video games, and bad santas.
SharkTooth 02.21.14	I recommend 2Chainz
GhettoHmbrglr 02.21.14	give 4 another listen see if you still hold the same opinion
ArsMoriendi 02.21.14	So can you explain to me exactly how Miley Cyrus's new album could be considered anything other than bad?
CalculatingInfinity 02.21.14	Another troll account from the same sad bastard, mods delete the post by 'FrankTheTwinkieFucka' please and install IP bans already.
facupm 02.21.14	there is bad music
MrSirLordGentleman 02.21.14	I think there IS bad music, I like some albums even though I know they may not be good
chemicalmarriage 02.21.14	I listen to Meshuggah in my truck then I go into the store and they are playing barry manilow or something and I say to myself god damn this shit sucks
slagun 02.21.14	yep bad music exists, just like bad children, bad video games, and bad santas. [2]
Riviere 02.21.14	Yeah bad is like subjective maaaaan.
sniper 02.21.14	i think there is bad music but there is certainly no such thing as a genre or style that is bad inherently. i mean opinions are obviously subjective but that doesn't mean music has no objective features. imo it is fair to argue that a band whose music is indistinguishable from hordes of others, relies heavily on tropes, or excessively apes the work of a particular artist, is objectively less valuable as an artist. that doesn't mean people are wrong to enjoy it, but to place ground-breakers and cover bands on the same level does a disservice to the music of both.
RadicalEd 02.21.14	Bad music does exist. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbjLtginLrc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJuu_4SR8-Y http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-tu2qK2IB8 Case closed.
Hurricanslash 02.21.14	@Sharktooth: You actually think I don't have all of his projects under that name? @GhettoHmbrglr: I have been listening to that album for lik 4 months straight now. @ArsMoriendi: I think it's effective pop-music with enough controversy around it to warrant listens and record-sales. Also, the choruses are damn catchy. So, also in consideration that that is probably all it's going for, in that case it succeeds in every way possible. I hope that explains it, person with username that is one of my favourite songs ever. @chemicalmarriage: Funny, sometimes I listen to those two after each other and still enjoy both.
Hurricanslash 02.21.14	@RadicalEd: Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's bad. Except for Prussian Blue, because they seem to be rather racist, I would jump to defend Farrah and BOTDF every day.
VermTheImpaler 02.21.14	3,5 and 7 rules hard, fuck the rest
Hurricanslash 02.21.14	@Verm: Yoyoyoyoyo, please don't say that EPMD and Eels suck. I beg you. Out of all the controversial bullshit I put on this list, at least spare those two.
RadicalEd 02.21.14	"Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's bad. Except for Prussian Blue, because they seem to be rather racist, I would jump to defend Farrah and BOTDF every day." You're wrong though. Just because art as such has obviously an subjective angle(a very big one) and just because everyone is entitled to like bad music, there are some measures for quality. Like proficiency at an instrument, (or as a singer) lyrical quality etc. While the lines are certainly blurry, there are definitely songs out their who are just plain bad, just because the lack anything good. Your view of music (and I guess art in general, because only having that view on music, but not on say: paintings, doesn't really makes sense) is just a surrender to being arbitrary, because the picture had to many shades of gray for you(dayum I hate that book) to decide where good ends and where bad starts. I hope you'll get my points, because my english is a bit to shaky to discuss abstract ideas like this.
Judio! 02.21.14	There is no bad music... only bad people.
SirDrumsalot 02.21.14	There is such thing as bad music. But simply not liking some music does not make it bad.
Yuli 02.21.14	It sounds like the point of this list, more than any statement on the possible existence of objectively bad art, is you telling us you don't want to be ridiculed for liking James Blunt
NordicMindset 02.21.14	James Blunt is probably the best of his ridiculed picks
Hurricanslash 02.21.14	It's interesting because they teach my point of view in the art-philosophy course of the university I'm attending. This is in no way supposed to say that my opinion is the only real one because of that, seeing how it is just an opinion. I just want to say with that, that I feel justified by bringing up this opinion on this site. As you said, the lines in art are very, very blurry, but considering your point of view, in which artistic measurements would you look at a genre like noise-music? Art is simply too broad and complex to measure it in good/bad. There are simply too many aspects you have to look at to measure it in this kind of way. The intentions of artists, the reception of the crowd, even success are all things you have to look at when you talk about music. Let's say a "good" musician decides to put out a "bad" album, with reasonings and everything behind it. If it turns out "bad" now, would you say it is bad or good, seeing how it succeeded in it's intentions? Bottom line is: You can think of music/art in good and bad, but it's all completely subjective because there is wayyyyyyyy too much to consider.
RadicalEd 02.21.14	haha omaha. Like Asking Alexandria and Nickelback aren't way worse xD
chemicalmarriage 02.21.14	you are a better man than me Hurricanslash
DikkoZinner 02.21.14	Erick & Parrish Making Dollars, good stuff.
RadicalEd 02.21.14	@ hurricansian not quoting you because posts are to long xD. I agree that a lot of the "this shit is bad" calling is purely subjective, and I get that the question, "did the artist achieve what he wanted to achieve" is often not considered enough. But I disagree with this non-committal way of thinking that is often to be found in modern days. Obviously you can deconstruct nearly everything in this world until you have nothing of objective merit left. You could even deconstruct the simple notion that you are an awake human being, living on the planet earth, until there is nothing objective left about it, if you just get "philosophical" enough. But I don't think that this way of thinking is very fruitful.
Riviere 02.21.14	"Bottom line is: You can think of music/art in good and bad, but it's all completely subjective because there is wayyyyyyyy too much to consider" What about this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnPNr9yquuc I'd say that's objectively bad.
SharkTooth 02.21.14	Noise music is a niche genre, it's neither bad nor good in the standards of music, the scale of quality for noise is only known to those who will have a tolerance for it, for the have an understanding of the genres principles
RadicalEd 02.21.14	If I just pick up a guitar play and randomly make some noises with it, not even following any pattern, while squeaking some incomprehensible noises over it, is it still on the same level than say: Stairway to heaven? Is it still? Well... either you like it or you don't, it's purely subjective.
zakalwe 02.21.14	Music done without passion, integrity and soul is shite. Automaton getting wheeled out onto stage for the love of the almighty dollar is shite. Hackneyed re-hash of once gone magic is shite. Everything released post 2000 is shite :D
Diglett 02.21.14	^hahaha what
RadicalEd 02.21.14	"Everything released post 2000 is shite :D" Don't have multiple 5/5 ratings from past 2000?
zakalwe 02.21.14	One of them statements is a joke dudes. Fuck me!
PunchforPunch 02.21.14	"If I just pick up a guitar play and randomly make some noises with it, not even following any pattern" that's stupid
Hurricanslash 02.21.14	@Riviere: I wouldn't say that. Performance-art is often misunderstood, but I understand completely if you think that it is a waste of time. And to everything else: I don't want you to stop ranking music, seeing how this is what this site lives off of, and seeing how it is definitely a good indicator for people if they would like something or not. I just want people to stop disrespecting others for their taste in music. That's my main reason for making this list.
LambsBread 02.21.14	Define bad music. I'd definitely say there is music that leads people to what I would call "bad" choices in life etc., but if you mean "bad" in a quality sense, then yeah sure, everyone obviously has an opinion on what "sounds good".
SharkTooth 02.21.14	Definition: 2Chainz
zakalwe 02.21.14	Bad music = Metal Machine Music
Yuli 02.21.14	Hurrican, for studying these things in school I'm surprised you'd pull the "it's all subjective!!" card. Just because it's difficult to judge something as good or bad as a whole doesn't mean it can't have separate components that are objectively good/bad
menawati 02.21.14	definition of bad music http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bTFCwKvlKZo but then i actually love it because its so bad
mryrtmrnfoxxxy 02.21.14	BULLSHIT ZAK
Tunaboy45 02.21.14	Definition: Emmure It's all opinion I suppose.
SirDrumsalot 02.21.14	@Riviere That is probably one of the greatest video's I've seen in my entire life. That is hilarious!
zakalwe 02.21.14	What's that dude Metal Machine Music? As a 'statement' it's the greatest thing of all time as 'music' the only way you could sit and listen to the whole thing and say it has melody is if your a total nutter.
Riviere 02.21.14	Hilarious, but not good. It's one of those things that pretentious people can defend to the death, but when calling a spade a spade it's a fat lady sliding on butter.
LambsBread 02.21.14	"Stop whining and ignore bands you don't like, it's as simple as that." The main reason I criticize what I think is bad music is that I used to listen to the same stuff in the past and had someone show me better music that I consider life changing. I don't think it's as simple as never pointing out that music is bad.
SirDrumsalot 02.21.14	Thats what makes it so hilarious, people actually take that seriously.
Negator 02.21.14	objectively there is bad music.
Riviere 02.21.14	I can see why you made the list hurrican, but you might as well ask people to stop being people. You can't have respectful sharing of tastes all the time. Someone who's never been called a fag for liking a certain band hasn't taken enough chances with their tastes.
Negator 02.21.14	I understand your premise of equality in music or at least tolernace of diversity but what about music primarily created for monetary gain? I think thats a very bad value in music that warrants labeling of bad music.
Hurricanslash 02.21.14	@Omaha: I agree with you completely, but I'm talking purely about the whole. @SirDrumsAlot: Yeah, because there is intention behind it. Don't erase that. @Riviere: I wish you could have that all the time, because I think it's stupid. I was just hoping I could make some valid points in the comments for some people to stop them from acting this inane.
SGGreenman 02.21.14	How do you explain crazy frog then?
Hurricanslash 02.21.14	It's good in the aspect of its massive success. I don't like it, though.
SharkTooth 02.21.14	Explain the fact that D4L's Laffy Taffy became a #1 hit
LambsBread 02.21.14	Everybody wilding out trying to be the wildest And refuse to acknowledge why they shit is so childish One two - one two - play, I wonder what they do today Besides repeat their choruses more times than Confucians say And start too many songs with "Uh Oh Uhh" Yeah I hear you soldier I told ya, like "No duh!"
Diglett 02.21.14	the level of cringe is mindblowing
Yuli 02.21.14	I think of these things like an art class. It teaches you about the history and context behind art, as well as particular directions you can take with it And I think saying all art is qualitatively equal is like saying someone who's never touched an easel before can do something just as respectable as Van Gogh's works. There's clearly a difference between those two instances, and it would strike me demeriting the clearly more accomplished artist by reducing his work to the low precedent established by the novice.
NordicMindset 02.21.14	What do you call music you don't enjoy?
Hurricanslash 02.21.14	That's true, that's true. And it would lead me to the point of many people asking to remove the artist from the art itself. and that would lead to even more problems. Yes, it would be demeriting, that's quite true, but I even see problems in saying that. I completely understand your point, though.
Hurricanslash 02.21.14	@Green Baron: Music I don't enjoy, duh. Also, I think it's funny how people now try to make me explain songs that they themselves think are bad. Do you know how you sound? Especially with this kinda philosophical discussion going on here, which I am glad I was able to initiate because it is really interesting?
someguest 02.21.14	I don't believe in you. Bastard.
pmmets07 02.21.14	what a mature opinion
Yuli 02.21.14	How do you feel about removing the artist from the art, Hurrican?
Hurricanslash 02.21.14	I think it's highly problematic. Yes, of course, art should, in its core, be able to stand on it's own without the artist attached to it. But the problem herein, in my opinion anyways, is that you just shouldn't ignore the artists intentions. I am well aware that art can and should be interpreted differently by different people, otherwise it wouldn't be able to pull your own meanings and feelings out of a piece of art, and that the intention of the artist itself shouldn't matter, because it's just wrong to call people out on interpreting art "wrong". However, especially when it comes to measuring the success of a piece of art, you should include the artist himself and his intentions.
SharkTooth 02.21.14	This is an issue with no clear solution, I personally like to approach music the same way Gene Siskel approached movies, basically: "There is a point when a personal opinion shades off into an error of fact. When you say 'The Valachi Papers' is a better film than 'The Godfather,' you are wrong."
karmacost029 02.21.14	Listen to this then come back to your decision on whether there is "bad" music or not. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVmJg2gPobs
SCREAM! 02.21.14	I think it goes deeper than this. Out of the 7 billion people on earth you're sure to find someone to like a song almost no matter what it is but that doesn't mean it's necessarily a good song that you just don't like. Like people have said, songs with no passion, talent or thought can easily be called "bad songs". Some people may still like them but usually the reason they give is because it's "catchy" and that reason tends to fade over time with repeated listens (since there is no substance, the effect fades). Also, just because I like something doesn't mean I think it's "good" per say. Sometimes a song just hits you the right way even though you can tell objectively that there was no effort or thought put into this.
Spec 02.21.14	Talking shit about bands people don't like is like 80% of the activity on this site though.
SharkTooth 02.21.14	But I talk shit about the post-rock genre which contains some of Sputniks favorite musical acts, am I one of the 20%?
StallionMang 02.21.14	http://www.sputnikmusic.com/bands/Blood-on-the-Dance-Floor/20576/ Disproven
Hurricanslash 02.21.14	@karma: I still defend Farrah. @SCREAM!: Hmmm, I wouldn't say that. There are enough songs without "substance" as you might say that are years old and I still enjoy them to this day. I won't list any examples because people hate me enough already, but let's take the song "Bad Day". I heard so many people claim that it's one of the worst songs of, uhhhhh, pretty much ever. I still like it after all these years. And you're right, out of all the people on this planet, you can always find someone who likes a song. And that's why I want people to stop being such mean idiots to people who like music they themselves think of as "bad".
Hurricanslash 02.21.14	@StallionMang: HOW OFTEN DO I HAVE TO SAY THIS CRAP? I STILL DEFEND THEIR MUSIC. GODDAMMIT DON'T YOU EVER LISTEN TO ME, PEOPLE?
SCREAM! 02.21.14	My whole point about always finding someone who'll like something was to say exactly the opposite of how you took it haha We have to draw a line somewhere since that clearly doesn't work as a basis. If I were to fart in a mic and record it I'm sure I could find someone somewhere that likes it (if I looked hard enough) even though it has no musical value whatsoever. This may be an extreme example, but it's just to illustrate the point that just because someone likes something doesn't make it "good" automatically. It's unfair towards all the artists that take their art seriously and put effort, time, experimentation, etc into their work to put out something memorable and lasting to be like "ok that's good but that guy who shat out a song in 5 seconds is good too because people like him"
Hurricanslash 02.21.14	You are right, we have to draw a line, but I sure as hell don't want to be the dude who will do that. People get offended too easily.
Onirium 02.21.14	Well, I believe in bad music. 8 is bad. 10 is bad. 4 sounds good at first. But it's bad. Just bad.
sunbathory 02.21.14	yeah there is its called touche amore
sunbathory 02.21.14	botdf is better than touche amore tbh
Lord(e)Po)))ts 02.21.14	there is definitely fucking bad music just like there is bad art and bad movies dont be so open minded ya twat
sunbathory 02.21.14	THIS IS SURVIVED BY WHO HELD ME UP THIS IS SURVIVED BY WHO SANG THE SONG oh my GOOODDDD do not speak holy shit i hate u
Lord(e)Po)))ts 02.21.14	also by your logic there is also no good music either, just music you like, and thats retarded!! no good no bad. just music. noooo!!! this takes away all the fun of having >>> opinions than other people!!!!!
zakalwe 02.21.14	Yep if you don't believe in bad music then there would be no ability to make timeless classics and to conclude that would be shit.
sunbathory 02.21.14	yea ok but can we talk about how how terrible touche amore is tho
Lord(e)Po)))ts 02.21.14	logic does not follow through therefore list is invalid
menawati 02.21.14	ofc there is bad music but even the worst song could become someone's favourite if maybe it had special meaning (like it was on the radio first time you jacked off or smthng)
CoolCalmJoe 02.21.14	thread was a little long so I just skimmed, but not surprised hurricanslash was typing in all caps by end of it
Lord(e)Po)))ts 02.21.14	lol
Ryus 02.21.14	wow well u r just so accepting rnt u
Lord(e)Po)))ts 02.21.14	the inner logic and critical thinker student me wants to create a series of premises and conclusions based on this argument and then make triple venn diagrams proving this thought process invalid
Ending 02.21.14	There's bad music AND there's music that a person doesn't personally like.
Dunwich 02.21.14	That Justin Timberlake album everybody on here was raving about is bad. That much I know.
titanslayer 02.21.14	"dont be so open minded ya twats" you tell them lordpots
Lord(e)Po)))ts 02.21.14	CLOSE YOUR MINDS BITCHES
qwe3 02.21.14	oh man this guy is a true philosopher. a pioneer of our times
Lord(e)Po)))ts 02.22.14	fuckin plato 2014
Rhyme 02.22.14	people say this use it as a defense for when people don't like the stuff they like and it for some reason bothers them
Lord(e)Po)))ts 02.22.14	there is no shame in liking bad music. i shamelessly enjoy some bad as fuck music.
jefflebowski 02.22.14	isn't there some unbelievably retarded thing on here that prevents you rating albums with a certain average as a 1? Just sprang to mind when i saw this
Rhyme 02.22.14	yeah if you dont like something that is considered bad, youre trying too hard
Lord(e)Po)))ts 02.22.14	'sn't there some unbelievably retarded thing on here that prevents you rating albums with a certain average as a 1? Just sprang to mind when i saw this' yep
jefflebowski 02.22.14	just tested it, it's definitely a thing what the fuck is wrong with this site
Rhyme 02.22.14	its to prevent troll rating i think
jefflebowski 02.22.14	who cares about troll ratings? if you like an album whatever the average rating is shouldn't matter to you
Lord(e)Po)))ts 02.22.14	'its to prevent troll rating i think' tis
sora236 02.22.14	Mommy!!! He likes stuff I don't like!!! Wahhhh!
jefflebowski 02.22.14	why not just apply it to every album then? There's no way that this rule isn't suggesting that some albums are objectively untouchable
Lord(e)Po)))ts 02.22.14	"why not just apply it to every album then? There's no way that this rule isn't suggesting that some albums are objectively untouchable" i agree its stupid but the point is once an album has so many ratings it becomes a huge target for troll rating because obviously trolls would rather troll rate things that make large groups of people butthurt
jefflebowski 02.22.14	fair point, seems like other people care about that stuff more than i do i guess
Lord(e)Po)))ts 02.22.14	yeah, well, it may be a stupid rule but trolls are also incredibly stupid, i guess mx figured they could neutralize stupiud with stupid
Rhyme 02.22.14	you can always rate stuff on rym if it bothers you so
jefflebowski 02.22.14	haha, when you put it like that it seems a proportionate response
jefflebowski 02.22.14	also fuck people who rate stuff on rym, the snarky descriptions they sometimes put by the ratings piss me off much more than they should
Lord(e)Po)))ts 02.22.14	i cant even look at rym its ugly
Rhyme 02.22.14	its ugly and all but it feeds me recs that i dont get here
Lord(e)Po)))ts 02.22.14	i just rec things to myself mostly im like hey id like that it has a 'world' tag
jefflebowski 02.22.14	don't get me wrong, it's awesome for discovering new music and obviously has many many more ratings for most albums
Rhyme 02.22.14	you can use auto recs once youve built some sort of taste based on your ratings so i never need to interact with anyone on there its what i use rym for anyway + bigger database
Hurricanslash 02.22.14	I, I, I am quite speechless. I mean, I don't know what I expected, but damn, if this is where being open-minded gets you, I think I should quit that now. Wow, the amount of "NOOOOOOOOOOO, YOU'RE WRONG" is amazing. Considering RYM, goddamn, the people there are even more obnoxious than the worst users here. -.- Also, when I give an album a rating on this site, it's not based on how good I think a record is, it is based on how much I enjoyed a record. And I think you can have pretty fun discussions about why someone didn't enjoy an album as much as you did. And yeah, that doesn't even include if a record is "bad" or not.
Lord(e)Po)))ts 02.22.14	dude you'll be fine welcome to the internet where people fuck with you for the sake of fucking with you. again, you'll be fine.
Lord(e)Po)))ts 02.22.14	its DEFINITELY not a black and white subject tho. there are good albums that you may not enjoy and you're right in saying that a rating is based off how much you enjoyed it. but there are also DEFINITELY straight up bad albums. and albums that you admittedly think are good but have no interest in. music is infinitely broad.
Dunpeal 02.22.14	also fuck people who rate stuff on rym [123]
Hurricanslash 02.22.14	@LordPots: I know, it's just so hard to come to peace with that realization. Really enjoy your music, though, will rate soon.^^
ScuroFantasma 02.22.14	To disprove 'bad music' you would have to define what 'bad' is and what 'music' is. As someone above posted, they could fart into a mic and someone would probably enjoy that, but can you rightfully call it music?
sora236 02.22.14	If they can control their farting and create different rhythms with it instead of random farting, that would be considered music. Just not music I would enjoy.
qwe3 02.23.14	dude you'll be fine welcome to life where people fuck with you for the sake of fucking with you.
CoolCalmJoe 02.23.14	"if this is where being open-minded gets you, I think I should quit that now." No one is really arguing against open-mindedness, just your opinion that there is no such thing as bad music, which LordPots has adequately refuted with some very basic logic.
CoolCalmJoe 02.23.14	but i love you bro
Yuli 02.23.14	Love how many comments of farting into microphones inevitably come up in discussions like these
tempest-- 02.23.14	https://www.facebook.com/radishpowellfart
TheBarber 02.23.14	Yeah I'd agree, even the shittiest art can be good for some sucker or for some laughs (and that's still good in my book)
TheBarber 02.23.14	The only cases of bad music to me is when it feels absolutely soulless and empty
TheGooseTavern 03.12.14	Music should not belong to trifling little children such as Rick and AA. These are demons set loose on the earth to lower the standards. You can go ahead and lie down and roll over but I won't. I remember when music had a conscience man, and bands like those aid in its destruction.
ChoccyPhilly 07.31.14	How can there possibly be "bad music" when music is basically anything and everything that is sound? It boils down to how you define music and how you define good and bad? Who is there to judge and say that certain melodies or textures are bad for everyone. People who like ambient music will happily listen to birds chirping or something like that, but someone else won't like it and will consider it as just "noise". Considering that everyone we consider to be good and bad is simply human perception, then surely if someone out there enjoys a piece of sound that's labelled as music, then it's not bad?
BMDrummer 07.31.14	why the bump
ChoccyPhilly 07.31.14	Felt like it. Wanted to discuss something
YakNips 07.31.14	have you even heard Hotel Books
ChoccyPhilly 07.31.14	I probably won't like it, but my point was I don't exactly understand who chooses objective qualities in music
SourAK 07.31.14	u cant tell me what to do
YakNips 07.31.14	this is objectively bad https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Q2EzlLzWOk
SourAK 07.31.14	hotel books is a hard 1
ChoccyPhilly 07.31.14	I wasn't telling you what to do, I'm just asking for some opinions. I'm ok with that song Yak, and from the looks of the likes, so do many people. But why do you think it's objectively bad? Cos if you think that's bad, then almost all spoken word is bad
Skull917 07.31.14	ok, but I want you to keep this hippie attitude and not complain about anything from now on. we got a deal ?
LambsBread 07.31.14	Its not as simple as ignoring the bands you don't like when they hog all the credit from masterful musicians when they are just overrrated virtually-talentless spiritually-bankrupt hacks and terrible role models for kids who do nothing but try to look cool. bad music is what is wrong with our generation get this terrible list outta here
SourAK 07.31.14	cant take someone seriously who thinks 6 is bad
ChoccyPhilly 07.31.14	I'm not complaining. I just want to hear some of your views and what you all think is "objectively bad". This kind of discussion is by far better than the typical "this song is better, no this band is better"
YakNips 07.31.14	"Cos if you think that's bad, then almost all spoken word is bad" omg are u for real
ChoccyPhilly 07.31.14	Got something wrong with spoken word, mate?
zakalwe 07.31.14	What's your favourite Choccy Phil?
YakNips 07.31.14	no just saying that THAT is on par with all other spoken word is fucking ridiculous
ChoccyPhilly 07.31.14	@zak I dunno, probably cadbury's @yak, yeah definitely not. It's a bit boring but I don't see anything significantly horrible about it. Care to share your thoughts?
Supercoolguy64 07.31.14	"I Don't Believe In Bad Music" [2]
YakNips 07.31.14	yea my thoughts is that it's cheesy and terrible
ChoccyPhilly 07.31.14	Fair enough. But that doesn't really justify how it's objectively bad, if you get what I'm trying to say.
LambsBread 07.31.14	jk to each their own! IMO! etc etc
Skull917 07.31.14	You can't put accurate value on art, so in a way a guidance point are the ones that make and distribute(in today's industry) music. Objectively bad will then be skeletal music with nothing going for it that relies on the ignorance of the listener in order to make sales, or people imitating this type of music. As you explore more music and become more aware and knowledgeable about it you'll start to distinguish the decent efforts from the scams. Now, this was for the objectively bad that everyone can agree on if they were the slightly bit interested in getting deeper into the music world.; From there you will start to see that there is more value in some music than other.
Xar 07.31.14	Music is bad until proven otherwise.
Royl123 07.31.14	Of course there's bad music like the kind that worships satan... But there's also good music like the kind that worships our lord jesus, for Evah and Evah Amen...
SourAK 07.31.14	this thread is pretty pointless because calling someone bad in and of itself is objective so there is no possible intelligent discussion to be had but at the same time saying something cant be objectively bad implies that their is no notion even saying it is an actual piece of subject matter tldr; everything has to be objective to be subjective
Skull917 07.31.14	sour's bringing the heavy artillery
ChoccyPhilly 07.31.14	@skull917 Really good point bro, but it depends what you consider a scam. I mean yes, there are many bands that replicate another bands style to a huge degree, but if they change a small part of it, then surely it has a slight tinge of their personal trademark on it? This can be as simple as a different voice or something like that. Rather than discussing acts and replicas, I'm simply referring music for musical value, pretty much ignoring where or who it came from. As for for ignorance of some listeners, diving deeper into more complex music doesn't make simple, cheesy, poppy music bad in the slightest (if that was what you were referring to). it's possible to enjoy both and there will never be any quality of sound that EVERYONE will think is objectively bad, so can it exist?
zakalwe 07.31.14	If the artists intention is to create something objectively bad then what's that??
Skull917 07.31.14	I was talking about this kind of scam https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWHOF_0-6Hg, emotionally manipulative trash that people are buying into because they haven't heard better (and let's not overestimate the intelligence of some people)
YakNips 07.31.14	sour's right you can stop
Skull917 07.31.14	zakalwe, it could be a parody, satire or it could be that objectively bad as well (look at the disaster movies parodies http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1213644/?ref_=nv_sr_1)
zakalwe 07.31.14	I was thinking more Lou Reeds' Metal Machine Music.
SourAK 07.31.14	lists like this r allowed to exist but my lists where actual conversation is had get taken down by feminist fuckwits i dont get it
ChoccyPhilly 07.31.14	@skull, hey I actually remember my parents playing that around the house a fair amount hint hint. It's not that manipulative, it's just a pretty simple ballad that as you pointed out, sold well because people haven't heard much else. You can still enjoy this and far more challenging music too. Also, the entire purpose of music is to entertain us, and it's clearly done the job of that to many people
ChoccyPhilly 07.31.14	@Sour I don't get why you have a problem with this list. If this isn't worth discussing, then why would we even comment on reviews saying one song/band/album is better than whatever. It's all subjective after all, isn't it? Like the views on this topic. But yeah, your lists weren't bad at all, not like you were trolling or anything
Skull917 07.31.14	I don't know about the myth of him wanting to flip off his label, lou reed was planning on making a noise record either way and it's not that it is abysmally bad it's just that his fanbase were not into this kind of music and were not expecting something like that at all
SourAK 07.31.14	that's exactly what i said dude but im just venting cuz nothing pisses me off more than a snitch tbh
Skull917 07.31.14	ok, let's say that we can all agree that some music just offers more to the listener than other
zakalwe 07.31.14	The sentiment behind it is fuckin awesome but come on, has anyone actually sat through the whole thing? Or if they have, when it finished not felt relief? It's bad. It's noise.
ChoccyPhilly 07.31.14	Certainly not, but I'll agree to simply put this to rest because I don't think it'll get any better
GnarlyShillelagh 07.31.14	it's called subjectivism
Skull917 07.31.14	hey swans' cop is a sonic abuse of the highest degree and it is still one of my favourite albums. MMM is a cacophonous assault on the senses and that's exactly what it was going for. If you listen to it there are a lot of small nuances to keep the noise enthusiasts interested and as a sort of experimental experience. I wouldn't rate it high but I wouldn't give a 1 either.
zakalwe 07.31.14	Have you listened to it from start to finish?
Skull917 07.31.14	I have
zakalwe 07.31.14	In one sitting?
Skull917 07.31.14	that's the point of it
JohnnyoftheWell 07.31.14	Stand up for your opinions, bitch; if it sounds bad to you, it's bad and who gives a fuck if people disagree. Bad music exists, even if we can't agree on what's bad.
Skull917 07.31.14	take this for instance http://www.sputnikmusic.com/soundoff.php?albumid=81019 a 5 hour minimalistic piece. It's just alternative type of experience.
zakalwe 07.31.14	The point of it? Fuckin hell Lou would be absolutely pissing himself dude. Cool!
Skull917 07.31.14	have you listened to much noise, because mmm is pretty is tame and musical even, when compared to some
titanslayer 07.31.14	I don't believe in good music
Skull917 07.31.14	I don't believe.
SharkTooth 07.31.14	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDYNuD4CwlI
Kman418 07.31.14	have you heard nails nails are definitely objectively bad