JWT155
08.14.12 | Will, Jim and Charlie are my bros and Maggie, Sloan and Mackenzie are my dirty whores. |
ThyCrossAwaits
08.14.12 | They made an offhand comment about some South Dakota college kids trapped in Egypt...of which I was one IRL. |
Trebor17
08.14.12 | breaking
bad |
JWT155
08.14.12 | Breaking Bad is great, but I find it so refreshing to watch a quality show on HBO with great writing, acting, character development and the lack of gore and tits to make up for the lack of *cough* True Blood... |
ILJ
08.14.12 | "breaking
bad"
We have a winner. Thread's over, we can all go home. |
Deviant.
08.14.12 | Idk, I heard The Newsroom had its head stuck up its own ass |
Trebor17
08.14.12 | Funny, I heard something similar
|
Deviant.
08.14.12 | Sorkin just writing a script to jerk himself off with |
Spare
08.14.12 | yeah i've also heard the newsroom is godawful but i like alan sorkin so idk it's probably pretty good. louie is the best show on television right now though if you ask me. |
Spare
08.14.12 | i like him so much i said alan instead of aaron |
Knott-
08.14.12 | show absolutely rules |
JWT155
08.15.12 | Knott knows what's up |
johnnyblaze
08.15.12 | ya The Newsroom is fucking great. i love how Jon Stewart mentions it like every single night. |
JWT155
08.15.12 | Jeff Daniels could give Bryan Cranston a run at best Actor on a TV drama this year. |
qwe3
08.15.12 | "Sorkin just writing a script to jerk himself off with"
its aaron sorkin dude |
fsharptrit0ne
08.15.12 | great show but not on the same level as bb |
fsharptrit0ne
08.15.12 | i mean seriously, did you see breaking bad's ep this past sunday |
Voivod
08.15.12 | Saw only the pilot episode, really good stuff. |
JWT155
08.15.12 | I'm a season behind on Breaking Bad but I love that show as well, plus it is its final season so anything but amazing episodes would be disappointing. For a drama with almost nothing but dialogue, the Newsroom is amazing. |
klap
08.15.12 | the writing on this show is terrible and reeks of Sorkin editorializing everything |
someguest
08.15.12 | yeah this show rules, I really like the cast.
klapizwrong. |
Inveigh
08.15.12 | heard mixed reviews about Newsroom, it is on my list of shows to check out though. finishing up Six Feet Under (finally) at the moment.
and yea Breaking Bad and Louie are probably my favorite shows on TV right now. |
JWT155
08.15.12 | Honestly, my biggest complaints about the show is that the dialogue is very obviously scripted (literally there will be minutes of witty comments back in forth and quick dialogue that will leave you lost in conversations) and the that in since the show takes place in the past they can use the benefit of hindsight to make wild predictions and stances knowing what the outcome in the "news" will be. Other things aside it's a show where you become really attached to the characters and each show seems to have more tricks then the episode before it. |
JWT155
08.15.12 | If you have never watched or heard of the show, this clip pretty much sums up the writing, satire and content of the show pretty nicely. From the opening minutes of the 1st episode...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h__uutzcQXc |
Spare
08.15.12 | that was kind of cringe-worthy
also inveigh finishin up six feet under, you are gonna cry js |
Deviant.
08.15.12 | "its aaron sorkin dude"
Yeah, but he's even worse than usual here |
klap
08.15.12 | Its just pretentious as fuck which explains why so many people on this site like it |
someguest
08.15.12 | smart and witty aren't always interchangeable with pretentious |
klap
08.15.12 | Agreed too bad the show is neither |
someguest
08.15.12 | Any reasoning or are we just doing blanket statements about it? |
klap
08.15.12 | it honestly just feels like I'm listening to an episode of sorkin thinks this and that about (insert important news event of past few years). Subtle as a brick to my head and impossibly idealistic/rooted in infallible hindsight. Will discuss more when off my phone |
klap
08.15.12 | Also the main character is really hard to like off the bat |
someguest
08.15.12 | I think that's pretty much the point of Will. He's supposed to be unlikeable but respectable at the same time.
I think you're always going to get viewpoints of writers thrown into a show. It's just quite more obvious here because the show is all dialogue and politics - nothing more (another part I like). They can talk about sex without showing it and still get the point across, which means a lot in a day where we need to see everything. It also shows how opinionated those who work on a newscast are behind the scenes, but that they must show restraint in a broadcast. |
Deviant.
08.15.12 | Yeah but having the writers ideologies and views make their way into a show is a given, it's probably half the reason why the show was created in the first place, or why it's set in a newsroom and not a hospital or something. But there's a clear difference between that and using the show as your own soapbox; Sorkin could have accomplished the same thing by hosting a weekly blog. Sure give your characters something to say, but the only words coming out of their mouths are the words of Sorkin's egotistical agenda and college-approved rhetoric |
Knott-
08.15.12 | What a ridiculous rant. Certainly you can argue that the issues presented are skewed towards the things that make the left look positive but the show is about media dynamics, not the rights and wrong answers to specific political questions. A couple of episodes ago, in the longest single-issue segment of the series so far, they tore Will to pieces for doing the typically-'liberal' thing of asking a gay guy how he can agree with a man who thinks he's a sinner. I grant that most of the targets who are put up as targets at which to aim "information" as their Kryptonite are conservatives, but there's a plethora of reasons for that. One is definitely political bias, but conservatives also say stupid things a lot more often than liberals do. If you don't get that, then, as the show proclaims, you're just wanting balance for balance's sake. Facts are the centre.
And no, the show couldn't be set in a damn hospital. That's not the point of the show at all. It's not just LOADSOFPEOPLEWORKINGTOGETHER. The key dynamic is media presentation. And if you can accomplish the same thing as the closing five minutes of the Arizona shootings episode did with a weekly blog then I'd adore seeing you try. Oh, and "college-approved rhetoric" is a cheap shot which means very little in reality. 'Cause people don't use big words and sound logic in the real world, yo. |
Knott-
08.15.12 | The infallible hindsight critique is a very appropriate one to make and it does lend the moralizing slant of the show a slight awkwardness but Sorkin's trying to portray a news organisation which gets things right, not wrong. They're not perfect, either, in his construction; they make mistakes sometimes. But I can't see that given the premise of a show based on reforming a news media channel from the dire current state of affairs (which exists, if you think it's exaggerated you're crazy) you would have it any other way than to, you know, illustrate how news media channels should work by, you know, illustrating how they SHOULD work. |
TheSpirit
08.15.12 | what about game of thrones |
Spec
08.15.12 | Breaking Bad is a great show. |
johnnyblaze
08.15.12 | ...and my boner for knott gets a little harder |
Deviant.
08.16.12 | "And no, the show couldn't be set in a damn hospital. That's not the point of the show at all. It's not just LOADSOFPEOPLEWORKINGTOGETHER."
That was my point but okay Sorkin. It's just the same as him writing a show that was set in the White House, he's simply using it as a platform to express his own thoughts (which in a way is fine), by attempting to dress it up as something other than a pretentious and sanctimonious piece where he can force his agenda on people. Granted I've only seen two episodes, but it seems like everyone is just waiting on pins and needles waiting until they can deliver that grand weekly Sorkin speech |
Knott-
08.16.12 | I don't know what element of sitting down to voluntarily watch an episode of a television program with a remote in your hand and 900 other channels to choose from constitutes having an agenda "force"d onto you. The primary focus of The West Wing - or the first season, in any case, which I've just finished watching - is the juggling act by any and every administration of the choice between doing what's right now and doing what's easy now so you can do what's right later. It says far more about politics as a game that people play than it does about the actual issues, but of course it has to possess a context within which to put that commentary and if the writer is trying to present a group of people who are generally well-meaning and making progress then he's obviously going to show the right decisions as being the ones that he agrees with. The exact same thing happens in The Newsroom, but the discourse being examined is the secondary conversation, whereas in The West Wing it's the primary.
Before I watched The Newsroom I didn't even know who Aaron Sorkin was. But I used to blog about journalistic integrity and I could talk about it all day. |
Deviant.
08.16.12 | Being able to choose what I watch and/or voluntarily watching has nothing to do with me referring to the writer "forcing his agenda" on me/the viewer. I'm talking about the fact that he can't go more than 5 minutes without falling back into his old habits of making sure that everyone is aware of his ideas and views. If he was able to tone it down it wouldn't be a problem, but the fact that he does so in such an overtly preachy fashion (as far as I'm concerned) is the reason why I stopped watching
Everything else that you're referring to in that last post relates to the bigger picture of his shows, I'm talking about how that message is getting lost in translation because of Sorkin's inability to separate telling a story that may or may not be based around some cold truths and simply writing a bunch of political diatribe and saying "I'm Aaron Sorkin and this is my opinion America" |
Deviant.
08.16.12 | Actually I take that back, it's not getting lost in translation because it's literally being forced down our throats with all the subtlety of a sledgehammer. There's no chance for a viewer to form their own opinions, because Sorkin has taken up all the available time pushing his own onto us, at the expense of good storytelling |
Apollo
08.16.12 | might get shit on for this but I don't give a flying fuck
Breaking Bad is the absolute best television drama ever. Nothing comes even close. The Wire would be second but it's a fucking long gap between it and Breaking Bad. |
Deviant.
08.16.12 | The Sopranos
Breaking Bad
Mad Men
The Wire
Game Of Thrones
Interchangeable top 5 for rme |
Apollo
08.16.12 | I would include Game Of Thrones in my top 5
Battlestar Gallactica is in there as well |
Spare
08.16.12 | the wire's miles ahead of breaking bad tbh |
fsharptrit0ne
08.16.12 | yea the wire kills bb but yea of course bb is fantastic |
Rikardur
08.16.12 | Just going to but in here with a few things:
1) Shit son, I need to check this show out soon...after I finish rewatching Twin Peaks.
2) Breaking Bad is definitely not the best drama of all time, the fans are overhyping that shit. The only praise I will give to the show is the incredible use of subtle foreshadowing and symbolism, but I cannot hold other aspects in high regard. The narrative can be intense but that wears off on a reviewing. What's left after that is characters that just fucking bother you. All of them. |
Rikardur
08.16.12 | And yes, The Wire is objectively one of the greatest shows. |
Spare
08.16.12 | >subtle foreshadowing
>breaking bad |
Inveigh
08.16.12 | "The Sopranos
Breaking Bad
Mad Men
The Wire
Game Of Thrones
Interchangeable top 5 for rme"
pretty much agree with this. also I think if Sorkin had wanted to make a show about "how the media really works behind the scenes" and get all "real" and "truthy" with it, then he probably should've just interviewed a fuck ton of people from a real newsroom or read a book (there's actually been a few written on the topic) and tell a real story -- rather than just making up your own badass version of Captain Hindsight and tell the world how YOU would run a newsroom if you could time travel. |
fsharptrit0ne
08.16.12 | nah the writing in bb is phenomenal and the characters have developed very well |
Rikardur
08.16.12 | Breaking Bad is a show that I totally appreciate and admire yet I simply cannot do the same on an
emotional level. It's a shame. A character dies...my reaction? Thank god. Although I'm ironically
liking Jesse a lot more than I did before since he is less YO BITCH and more toned down. And I'm
liking Hank too a bit more now. Walt's mannerisms and face bug the shit out of me now. As does his
son. And Skyler's face too, holy shit. |
fsharptrit0ne
08.16.12 | all the things you just said about the characters proves the writing is effective though. it's the point |
Rikardur
08.16.12 | That's what I understand. I just said I love the show from every level other than an emotional one. |
Rikardur
08.16.12 | Also Mad Men is the best show currently on air, I'll fight to that. ALTHOUGH I've never watched either Game of Thrones (yet) or The Newsroom, so chyll. |
Emim
08.16.12 | reruns of Seinfeld are still the best damn thing on TV
Newsroom is awesome though |
fsharptrit0ne
08.16.12 | mad men is great too but ehh. last season was messy. |
fsharptrit0ne
08.16.12 | its not really meant to be an insult to the show but mad men feels like a glorified soap opera set in the 60's |
Rikardur
08.16.12 | I thought last season had many brilliant moments. The show is more about themes and characters than plot. The way I watch it is from that point of view. I'm always looking at the underlying themes and connecting to it what had came before and also relating it to what I can in real life. |
fsharptrit0ne
08.16.12 | oh yea i get that and i admire it for doing something different. not relying on violence, action or death to keep the audience watching. 5 definitely did have many great moments but damn idk whats up with betty's arch. |
RosaParks
08.16.12 | that rant about America not being the best country in the world is all I have seen from it but that was awesome so |
Rikardur
08.16.12 | I don't want to get in depth in this thread but it was to further show her character I think, and how she developed, being who and what she is. Her jealousy, her unhappiness in her marriage, childish persona, etc. She is still the same ol' Betty; people can't change who they are. Don just needed the trigger to revert back to his old ways. |
731
08.16.12 | the people who think this show is saying something Very Important probably thought crash was a thought provoking look at the evils of racism |
alachlahol
08.16.12 | i just like jeff daniels, fuck it |
731
08.16.12 | same |
Deviant.
08.16.12 | "5 definitely did have many great moments but damn idk whats up with betty's arch. "
Meh, it's only Betty. Plus pretty sure what's her name (woman who plays her) just had a kid (hence the weight gain issue earlier on), so she's probably had half her storylines cut so she can stay at home etc. Even though her lack of appearances lately is almost a nice insinuation about how Don just sees her as someone completely disposable now |
Rikardur
08.16.12 | Agreed with Dev. She is only really brought up when it comes to something important in Don's life (his kids, basically). |
fsharptrit0ne
08.16.12 | yea but that one episode i believe it was called tea leaves, was almost complete filler. |
Deviant.
08.16.12 | I disagree; the parts with Betty showed her frustration and boredom as a housewife whose children are old enough to be in school and she's not constantly caught up in turmoil with Don. And the whole scenario with Don and Harry at the gig trying to score the Stones and Don chatting to that girl represented the generational gap that began to emerge in the 60s, the baby boomers. I think the end of the show is going to revolve around the agency heading into the 70s and trying to cope in that changing society, this somewhat foreshadowed it. Like with Don listening To Revolver for all of 10 seconds before turning it off because he didn't understand it, he's losing touch |
fsharptrit0ne
08.16.12 | didnt say anything about the whole don and harry thing, that was p cool. it was mostly about betty (who the ep was based around more or less) the betty thing felt a bit tacked on.. especially the cancer scare subplot and her whole weight class thing. maybe its because by this point in the series i really don't care for betty too much, but it really just came off as sloppy |
fsharptrit0ne
08.16.12 | i thought almost every example of how they showed the 60's generation gap was extremely well done. roger doing acid with the beach boys in the background was great, as was the whole hare krishna plot with harry and paul. it was nice to see, however, the interaction between don and betty when she told him about the possibility of cancer |
defjaw83
08.16.12 | Amazing show. The Newsroom that is. I love Sorkin's writing, and I can see why people would say he's up his own ass etc, but it's such witty, fast, clever dialogue. He's also bang on with the show's subject matter and the way it's dealt with. I'm hooked |
defjaw83
08.16.12 | And I agree with everything Knott said above |
fsharptrit0ne
08.16.12 | i hope season 2 of newsroom can manage to stay good. apparently sorkin fired his whole writing staff |
JWT155
08.16.12 | Well that blows |
Deviant.
08.16.12 | "especially the cancer scare subplot and her whole weight class thing. maybe its because by this point in the series i really don't care for betty too much, but it really just came off as sloppy "
Well like I said she got pregnant in real life so they had to find a workaround (for the weight gain) as well as allow her some time off (because as we all know the usual outcome for these events is that pregnant women end up actually giving birth) |
klap
08.17.12 | "also I think if Sorkin had wanted to make a show about "how the media really works behind the scenes" and get all "real" and "truthy" with it, then he probably should've just interviewed a fuck ton of people from a real newsroom or read a book (there's actually been a few written on the topic) and tell a real story -- rather than just making up your own badass version of Captain Hindsight and tell the world how YOU would run a newsroom if you could time travel."
omg this |
Torviss
08.17.12 | "i hope season 2 of newsroom can manage to stay good. apparently sorkin fired his whole writing staff"
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/08/02/entertainment-us-newsroom-idUSBRE87102N20120802
"The writing staff was not fired. ... Seeing that in print has scared the hell out of the writers. They are coming to work early and being polite to me. I love the writing staff. I think they are a fantastic group"
Also, apparently the one bit about the writer that was also his ex-girlfriend that was spared from the mass-firing was made up as well. |
defjaw83
08.17.12 | I don't see it as Sorkin saying "this is how news should be done", he is just showing the pressures and split second decisions that these people have to make. It's pretty funny too |
