TMobotron: Death Metal Sucks

TMobotron 10.02.10	Sorry for "hating" on DM guys. I really want to like it, I just don't think I understand it. Any arguments for DM or against it are welcome, any tips for getting into it or appreciating it more would be great, or any artists that I might like from the genre too. I actually really like a lot of metalcore because the hardcore emotion is there (Converge and DEP i love a lot), and SOME bm like burzum too. It's really just DM that i almost universally dislike. Sorry if this list sucks more than i thought it would, i'm half drunk making this but i think i focused up enough to make my points well. love you guys.
bailar14 10.02.10	i think i love you
Terrifyer 10.02.10	tl;dr
foreverendeared 10.02.10	Dude, it doesn't get much more emotional anger-wise than death growls
TMobotron 10.02.10	definitely knew i was at risk of a tl;dr situation and that's fine i don't expect everyone to read it. Love you too bailar, question though, where do you live? because you're usually one of the only people on so damn late even where I am, (Arizona) where it's earlier than most other places so it's normal to be on now. and foreverendeared i disagree. I think DM growls sound angry, but no one has ever actually growled like that when angry. So yes, they do have an angry sound, but they aren't the sound of anger (if that makes sense). I think a band like pg. 99 displays a true angry sound much better than any dm band i've ever listened to could ever hope to. But i guess maybe our perceptions of what's truly angry is just what makes the difference in liking or hating DM.
NeroCorleone80 10.02.10	If you like some black metal then I dont understand why you find it hard to get into death metal. Bm is a lot harder to get into than dm imo, mainly because it takes time getting used to the poor production. Anyway best way to start off is with melodeath. thats basically a gateway to full on dm. At the Gates - Slaughter of the soul Dark Tranquillity - The Gallery In Flames - The Jester Race If you cant get into these then you'll probably never get into dm.
bailar14 10.02.10	oh im in california. i just have a terrible sleep schedule. and i acutally really liked this list. i have similar issues with some of these too. vocals can play a big role for some artists for me.
foreverendeared 10.02.10	i disagree, i think BM is easier to get into than DM. The atmosphere in BM make it easy to get lost in the songs.
NeroCorleone80 10.02.10	I got into dm pretty much straight away. it took me a lot longer to get into bm. but i guess its just different for different people.
TMobotron 10.02.10	Thanks for the recs nero, any one specifically i should look into because ill probably get at least one of those. And yeah I get what you're saying but those are 2 completely different limiting factors on music. I simply don't mind poor production as much as I do dm vocals.
TMobotron 10.02.10	Lol but josh johnny drama is a fucking champion. And @ bailar im pretty happy at least someone else has a bad sleep schedule so someone else posts when i post way fucking late. And yeah I'm sure there is, but I haven't really liked any DM I've listened to that much, whether it's considered good or bad.
bailar14 10.02.10	ha no problem bro. my classes are all in the afternoon anyways. so theres tons of time to have my quiet music time and sputnik time. plus everything is done online now so i cant get away from the site now.
TMobotron 10.02.10	best scene in the whole show (at least up to season 6 ep 7 which im watching as we speak): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rf2_2vRv80A followed by when he says "i thought i pulled my cock off" which i cant find a vid for
DeafMetal 10.02.10	It's 6:30 AM in Pittsburgh. My sleep schedule is terrible.
DeafMetal 10.02.10	Never was a fan of table games tbh.
TMobotron 10.02.10	fuck its 3:30 here i thought that was bad (though i probably wont sleep until 5). I do love everyone who stays up late though, the site gets so slow later, we need more night people. carpe noctem.
TMobotron 10.02.10	and bailar i know the feeling, every time i have to do something on my computer (which is all the fucking time, computer systems major), I just immediately go to sputnik, i can't help myself.
bailar14 10.02.10	i do wish some more of hte aussies would post during the late night times. its only almost 9 where they are.
bailar14 10.02.10	from cali, australia is 7 hours behind, while england is 7 hours ahead. so its pretty easy to remember for me.
kangaroopoo 10.02.10	8.40pm, k'tal?
TMobotron 10.02.10	yeah when i asked where you were from i realized maybe you were form another country so it wasn't really late at all. but that is weird where the fuck are the aussies
TMobotron 10.02.10	dude guys more episodes of entourage or the big lebowski you choose.
bailar14 10.02.10	the dude. ive watched the fuck out of entourage already. so thats just me.
bailar14 10.02.10	nighty night josh d enrique will be in your dreams and all that jazz
TMobotron 10.02.10	okay yeah youre right im gonna watch that now and get it out of the way i have plenty more entourage. and josh why dont you just sleep right now? too into sputnik? im just curious
TMobotron 10.02.10	yeah i haven't listened to the new underoath but that's how i feel about all their old stuff ive heard define the great line and lost in the sound of separation in full multiple times and neither seemed that great.
TMobotron 10.02.10	yeah i know what you mean, it's definitely okay but there's nothing going on that isn't going on in a much better way with different bands.
bailar14 10.02.10	they just dont suck hard. so they get praise i guess. i havent listened to them much to really have an appreciation for them either.
TMobotron 10.02.10	well yeah i mean their best album is rated as a 3.9 (iirc) so it's not like the universal opinion is any more than average but they have a shitload of ratings so i just wonder where the fanbase came from.
bailar14 10.02.10	i assume its the majority of users who dont really bother getting involved with the site, save for rating albums, and using it for music.
Motiv3 10.02.10	lol @ pth being anywhere close to DM. Theres alot of emotion in bwp, so i cant understand why u would say there isnt. Maybe because the more obvious emotional parts come from the clean sections of the album.
TMobotron 10.02.10	are there really that many people who do that? i dont have any idea i guess. random question but what are you guys listening to a lot right now? For me my go to bands atm are how to dress well, off minor, murder by death and cursive. But im curious.
TMobotron 10.02.10	fuck hollier i had a response but i tried to click edit and deleted on accident, short version: knew pth wasnt dm, but dm was what the list was about so i was contrasting the kind of metal i do like and why, i like the cleans in opeth but not enough to validate the rest of the album.
bailar14 10.02.10	if i told you youd figure out who i am maybe! naw jk la dispute, circa survive, american football, porcupine tree, the blood brothers, and maudlin of the well
TMobotron 10.02.10	maybe someone would, personally i dont keep tabs on anyone on this site well enough to know what the hell they're listening to. but hey you should check out my last list hyro da hero it has a cool hip-hop song sampling circa's living together. but ive been into la dispute and american football lately too. which la dispute, somewhere at the bottom...?
bailar14 10.02.10	im just kidding bro. but i told you my dig it'd be REALLY obvious as to who i am since no one else is diggin the album atm. but i actually saw youre last list. was surprised at how it sounded. pretty cool. and yeah somewhere at the bottom. i have all of their other ep's but i just havent listened to them. which is kidna odd since i love the full length.
TMobotron 10.02.10	lol wait so do you still post on your regular acct? and if so how often? you dont have to answer both or either but im really curious because i think of bailar as 1 whole person not 1/2 of a regular user. have you listened to the touche amore split? maybe you include that with "their other ep's" im not sure but when i say im digging la dispute thats what im referring to, i think it's better than all of somewhere at the bottom. though that's really good too.
bailar14 10.02.10	its all good bro. 80% this one and then 20% the other, as of late. but i stilll have more than 1000 comments on my main. i only post on my main for most stuff i legitimately care about on the site. not to say everywhere i post on this one is just for nothing, i just like to have better musical discussion on my main. ive actually interacted with you on it a good amount of times if i can recall correctly. but yes i have the split. i would include that as well. but i meant more like vancouver and the hear, here ep's. but i love the dual vocals. wish the split was longer than 10 minutes though.
TMobotron 10.02.10	haha dude i was seriously gonna ask you in this post whether ive talked to your main (or maybe at this point its your bailar alt) acct, because it would be weird if i hadnt. But yeah the split is kind of a continuation of somewhere at the bottom where the hear heres sound completely different. I haven't heard vancouver but from what i've heard i expect just a slightly worse version of somewhere at the bottom. I'm actually going to see touche amore and la dispute with and so i watch you from afar and envy on the 23rd. are you going to any of the ca shows by any chance?
PaleCompanion 10.02.10	I'm not a big DM expert but I don't think the point of growls is to be relatable or pleasing to begin with.
bailar14 10.02.10	yeah i guess the two switched at some point. but this one is slowly becoming more like how my main is tbh. i just trolled with it originally cuz well frankly i was bored and i had lots of free time. but that seems like itd be a pretty awesome show. la dispute is enough to be worth it. but havent gotten any tickets yet, but id either go to hte show in anaheim or los angeles. im currently stuck in college in orange county with no car, so id have to arrange some way to see the show.
qwe3 10.02.10	DEATH METUHLLLLL
TMobotron 10.02.10	yeah i dont have tickets either but im sure they wont sell out soon or anything. ive probably gotta pay for my buddy's ticket to get him to come along (cant go alone have to at least look like im not a loner) but i cant miss this show. @palecompanion then what is the point of dm growls? i didnt want to make the list thinking the dm vocals had one purpose that i understood completely, but i cant see what the purpose would be besides being relatable or pleasing. and im honestly just curious, btw if your name is from agalloch which i assume it is i fucking love that song.
TMobotron 10.02.10	btw bailar i gathered youre living in the dorms so freshman i assume what college do you go to?
Prolapse 10.02.10	dm
BigTuna 10.02.10	thread is way too long so I didn't read it, so I'm sure this has been said before: Think of dm vocals as another instrument, used (just like the dirty guitar and heavy drums) to set the heavy, dark atmosphere. They're not supposed to be "aesthetically pleasing." And if you stick with dm, you'll learn to like it.
TMobotron 10.02.10	appreciate the input. that makes a good amount of sense, i guess it's just such a radical change from any vocals im used to that maybe its hard for me to think of it that way. whats your favorite dm album tuna?
Prolapse 10.02.10	none so vile, it's pretty crazy
liledman 10.02.10	"Maybe this isn't considered DM I'm not sure" putting that in the list automatically took away credibility. i came into dm from metalcore and hardcore, and i found myself liking the more guttural side of vocals in some metalcore bands. basically i just kept searching for heavier music. if thats not your thing, who knows, maybe just try some stuff you dig instrumentally and get used to the vocals.
TMobotron 10.02.10	well to add to what i said to hollier i knew it wasnt dm, maybe i should edit that, though even if i didnt know what genre it belonged to idk that it would change the value of the point i was making. But i havent explored metalcore quite as much as i could have because i didnt even realize until recently that i liked that side of metal as much as i do. but if you got into dm with metalcore that might be the right path for me. im definitely thinking ill get into as much metalcore as possible from here, so wish me luck i guess.
chait12 10.02.10	to get into death listen to melodeath (i did tht too) listen to the bands given by nero
NeutralThunder12 10.02.10	Opeth- wrong about them dude Protest the Hero- Not death metal Off Minor- Not Death metal maudlin of the Well- Not death metal
Prolapse 10.02.10	he's comparing them
NOTINTHEFACE 10.02.10	Okay, I felt the same way as you did back in the day when I first got BwP. It wasn't that the vocals were bad, per se, it was just that they felt... cheesy. Pretty much exactly what you were saying with them not being genuine. Eventually the intricacy and technicality of Opeth's music made me able to at least ignore the vocals in favor of the music, but it wasn't until i heard In Mourning's Shrouded Divine before I truly started appreciating death vocals. Maybe give that a shot?
BigTuna 10.02.10	my favorite death metal? well that's difficult I really love the old school death sound, but that developed over a bit of time. What's nice about dm is the classics in the genre usually ARE classics, no matter your taste. I'd agree with others here who are telling you to get into melodeath first (great gateway), but here are my favorites: Death - Symbolic Death - The Sound of Perseverance Morbider - When Darkness Returns Cryptopsy - None So Vile Decapitated - Winds of Creation Atheist - Unquestionable Presence She Said Destroy - This City Speaks in Tongues Definitely start with those Death albums, they're quite easy to get into.
BigTuna 10.02.10	if you listen to that Cryptopsy album you'll see what I'm saying about the vocals being an instrument
Hyperbore 10.02.10	I got into black metal a lot more easily than death metal, too. My suggestion, as it worked for me like a charm, is to dive into some classical. You don't need to pursue it too deeply -Beethoven, Bach, and Mozart should do the trick- but the melodic dynamics in that form of music may help you appreciate what goes on in death metal more easily, since it will prepare your mind to accept what seems at first like random riff changes. Also, the vocals are meant to not be pleasing or emotionally relatable. They're meant (like the rest of the music, including in black metal) to convey concepts that transcend the limited perspective of human-centered emotions.
Crysis 10.02.10	To be honest with you, a critical staple of death metal is the vocals, so if you despise them then you really shouldn't be listening to death metal.
SlightlyEpic 10.02.10	Dude, I can completely to relate to how you feel about death metal vocals. I've always had trouble forming any kind of connection with death metal releases since they strike me as somewhat mechnical and, like you said, lacking in emotion. Skramz 4 lyfe.
BigTuna 10.02.10	I think it's a mistake to base your reactions to music based on emotion only. Of course it plays a large part (most of my 5's are classics because I've connected with them emotionally more than any other album), but there's something to be said for perfecting a style of music/aspiring for perfection in a style. That's why a lot of metalcore and deathcore are bland; they pollute the style of music with monotonous breakdowns and uncreative repetition. Now based on that, I'd say dm needs to be approached (and enjoyed) first from a musical standpoint. I think there is emotion to be found in the guitar riffs and the overall atmosphere of a dm album (try listening to Cryptopsy and not wanting to fuck shit up), but if you come to dm with a slightly different perspective (for example, focusing on the intricacies of the music) your potential to enjoy it will definitely increase.
Hawks 10.02.10	No sir, you suck.
SlightlyEpic 10.02.10	I mean don't get me wrong I can still enjoy/appreciate death metal I'm just more partial to other genres.
BigTuna 10.02.10	Srightry I never get you wrong ;) And I know what you mean, I haven't listened to dm in a long while.
Hawks 10.02.10	Listen to Silent Waters. Fucking awesome progressive death metal.
Inveigh 10.02.10	I think if you're trying to get the exact same type of emotional impace out of death metal that you do out of post-hardcore, screamo or metalcore then you're probably listening to it with the wrong mindset. What BigTuna, NeoCorleone and Crysis all said makes a lot of sense, and yes, a decent way to look at the vocals are as another instrument. They're very much an acquired taste. The vocals in extreme metal are almost more about an atmosphere than emotion, I mean even the lyrical content is completely different. Generally death metal songs are not about any sort of genuine personal experience or relationship, they're more third person, like attacking social issues or generally growling about the occult, death or war. So, emotion's not always the intended reaction... anyways, melodeath's definitely the best way to get into it. I'd say for just a one album rec: In Flames - Colony
Terrifyer 10.02.10	yeah start with melodeath and more accessible stuff no point jumping straight into things like Cryptopsy if you dont think you're ready
Hawks 10.02.10	Yeah exactly. If you listen to something like Cryptopsy or Suffocation first then you're most likely going to hate it.
Terrifyer 10.02.10	In Flames - The Jester Race/Whoracle/Colony Dark Tranquillity - The Gallery/Fiction At The Gates - Slaughter Of The Soul Death - Symbolic Amorphis - Silent Waters Hypocrisy - Virus Opeth - Still Life try these
SlightlyEpic 10.02.10	just listen to Brutality - Screams of Anguish because it's probably my fav dm release at the moment so
Hawks 10.02.10	Do exactly what Fade just said.
Inveigh 10.02.10	yeah if you can't get into Terrifyer's recs then death metal's probably just not for you, at least not now
Motiv3 10.02.10	yeah start with In Flames older stuff and Dark Tranquillity's newer stuff. That got me into death metal in general before going on to the straight up heavier stuff.
wyankeif1337 10.02.10	Majesty and Decay
PaleCompanion 10.02.10	Well some people like BigTuna already answered, but I'd add that I assume that only they're not about being pleasing, they might actually be about being unpleasing. As in, something out of this world, not human and scary. Which, somehow, might still be something you can relate to if these sorts of things speak to you.
PaleCompanion 10.02.10	and yes, it's from the Agalloch song :)
Xplisit 10.02.10	You should try out Autopsy Mental Funeral
Emim 10.02.10	Most screamo comes across as false emotion, tbh.
kitsch 10.02.10	what Xplist said old skool dm is the shit dont like any other kind tho, for reasons similar to yours. i like the old skool shit because of the production and the muddiness. gives the otherwise shitty vocals a good context
TMobotron 10.02.10	what screamo do you think does emim? i do agree that some of it does. definitely not off minor though. But thanks everyone you guys are fucking great. I'm definitely gonna check out some melodeath today. I wanna clarify though I'm not listening to metal expecting to connect with it emotionally or anything like that, i go in with a pretty open mind. I was just using that as an example for why I like screams and not DM vocals.
Ire 10.02.10	[NERGAL'S HEAD]
JWT155 10.02.10	All right Drama.
TMobotron 10.02.10	baby bro
Emim 10.02.10	"what screamo do you think does emim? i do agree that some of it does. definitely not off minor though." Well definitely CTTS (lol, no debate intended). I just find more emotional connection in other music; usually hardcore and such.
zarquan99 10.03.10	TMobotron I was going to post a thread on almost the exact same topic because I am also trying to get into death metal and found the vocals rather weak. I listened to Death's Human a while back and I respect it as a great album which I listen to occasionally, but I never got the aggression I wanted from a DM album. The production is kind of awful, the guitars sound mushy, not punishing. Although most DM is like this for me, I recently listened to Cryptopsy's None so Vile. The vocals in that really are angry. Fucking amazing album. I strongly suggest you listen to that as not only a great DM album, but a truly amazing album. It harbors the same kind of intensity that Jane Doe has. btw that mid-section in They Aren't All Beautiful is breathtaking. That is honestly the most intense vocal moment I have heard on recording.