toxin.
10.05.11 | wow. |
eternium
10.05.11 | in b4 Apple makes "RIP Steve Jobs" iPod for $180 each |
AngelofDeath
10.05.11 | No more reality distortion field for Apple. |
flalafell
10.05.11 | "in b4 Apple makes "RIP Steve Jobs" iPod for $180 each"
i lol'd but felt bad afterwards |
accompliceofmydeath
10.05.11 | I want his faced engraved on the back of mine... for the low low price of $350. |
toxin.
10.05.11 | Yeah I feel bad idk Apple will probably go to shit now |
accompliceofmydeath
10.06.11 | I don't think he had been doing much since the beginning of the year. Wasn't he on medical leave or something for most of the year? |
taxidermist
10.06.11 | Sucks. Jobs was a boss. |
ElJosho
10.06.11 | k we have enough lists about this, thx |
taxidermist
10.06.11 | Gonna be buried in an iCasket hurr hurr hurr. |
ElJosho
10.06.11 | aw too soon man |
taxidermist
10.06.11 | I own a Mac, I HAVE A RIGHT. |
Pharoh
10.06.11 | Awww I thought he was gonna outlast bill gates |
KILL
10.06.11 | fuck apple but rip |
foreverendeared
10.06.11 | Man dies.
Quickly update FB status and make a pointless list about it. |
tarkus
10.06.11 | RIP
I don't like macs but iPhones have some nice tech |
KILL
10.06.11 | lol |
Knave
10.06.11 | iSad |
KILL
10.06.11 | shut the fuck up |
Niceinvader
10.06.11 | get a zune |
Deviant.
10.06.11 | Steve Jobs2 will about in like a month, don't worry |
Emim
10.06.11 | Should I buy Steve Jobs2 right away or wait until the updates come out, Dev? |
toxin.
10.06.11 | "so funy
iDead ha ha ha ha
oh i got one
iGotCancer!
so funy"
[1234]
It's not even original you guys. |
Deviant.
10.06.11 | "Should I buy Steve Jobs2 right away or wait until the updates come out, Dev?"
I heard there was a longer lasting battery on it, so maybe hold out
Fuck it, I'm going to hell |
Alexcore
10.06.11 | "Suck my cock"
Bill Gates.
rip steve |
Emim
10.06.11 | Hell probably uses Apple products.
But really, rip, good sir, even though I never bought a single product of yours, and am using an inordinate amount of commas in this sentence. |
vondo
10.06.11 | I'm naming my GSII after him. |
eternium
10.06.11 | Right now the Wall Street protest is much more important to me. |
Darkvoid67
10.06.11 | RIP. But seriously, the i-pod marked the proper start of illegal file sharing and music downloads, so my sorrow is rather minimal |
iFghtffyrdmns
10.06.11 | RIP brother |
Schindler
10.06.11 | you flaming cock monger |
AfterTheBreakdown
10.06.11 | Thanks for the ipod. RIP |
Trebor.
10.06.11 | He was a legend |
someguest
10.06.11 | "Right now the Wall Street protest is much more important to me."
Yes. Instead of screaming ignorance at their televisions and monitors, they're doing it to buildings. Good 'ol unemployed young fucktards. |
R6Rider
10.06.11 | Sucks.
RIP dude. |
eternium
10.06.11 | Sigh, thankfully I know you're just trolling, someguest. |
someguest
10.06.11 | I'm serious. Even ABC News interviewed the crowd, and no one knew what they were doing there. |
eternium
10.06.11 | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJgWdfZqDj0
Ever think that maybe the media is only showing certain interviews? |
someguest
10.06.11 | Well, while the rest of us are out actually getting things done and improving our lives (and others, I might add) these people are just whining - and nobody listens to a bitch. |
eternium
10.06.11 | Oh please. The very reason that they are out there is because they've tried and they have failed. They were told if they went to college then they would be successful. They went to college and found themselves thousands of dollars in debt and in an economy that will not hire them. They worked full time at a job for decades that ended up going under and they were let go, now unemployed and unable to find work. These people lose homes, lose health care, and lose the very foundation of their lives that they are either trying to work for or have already worked for.
The idea that someone can work themselves up to the top is a myth now and that is why they are angry. The system no longer works for the middle class, all of the success goes to the top and when the top fails they get bailed out while the rest of us lie in the streets. |
someguest
10.06.11 | I bet if we were to analyze the decisions made on a daily basis alongside their career, we'd find that the choices they made were just as damning as the company that "made their world collapse". |
toxin.
10.06.11 | Thank you for this great debate you guys.
At least one good thing---this discussion---came out of his death. |
kris.
10.06.11 | lol trying to reason with someguest |
someguest
10.06.11 | The difference between this economic downturn and the ones before it is people don't hold themselves responsible anymore. Everyone has to point their finger - there's no way I caused the situation I'm in. I'm perfect. |
eternium
10.06.11 | That's absolute bullshit to assume about millions of people, especially when unemployment and underemployment is so widespread. Go ahead and live in your little world because that's exactly what they want you to do. Ignore the problem, blame the victims. |
Ovrot
10.06.11 | 10 points to eterniumdore |
someguest
10.06.11 | I have no money and I've given up on making a living BUT I'M FLYING TO NEW YORK. |
eternium
10.06.11 | So you're assuming that none of these people are actually from New York despite the fact that they have their own protests starting up in other cities. |
someguest
10.06.11 | New Yorkers in New York? I never would've thought.
They'll grow hungry and tired and go home and everything will be back to the way it was. Wait until the snow starts. |
eternium
10.06.11 | Actually they're feeding each other, giving each other clothing, sleeping in tents together, and even providing medical care to each other. This has been going on for nearly twenty days and is only getting larger. 20k or so people in New York is a pretty large crowd. |
toxin.
10.06.11 | "lol trying to reason with someguest"
but to be fair, he has a point. Idk it sounds like you guys are just on opposite spectra and at the end of the day the answer probably lies somewhere in the middle. I don't know why the individual AND the companies can't both be responsible for this shit we're in. Except that it's harder to fix when we don't have one obvious group responsible |
someguest
10.06.11 | I'm a senior in college and I'm working an eight dollar an hour job. I don't have sympathy for whiners. Sorry. |
eternium
10.06.11 | The corporations have all of the power. They have all the money, they lobby and fund campaigns for politicians who then do what they want, they hand out foreclosures, they hand out pink slips, they hand out low wage jobs to people who work their asses off, they deny health care coverage to people who work their asses off, etc. |
eternium
10.06.11 | You don't think some of these people have eight dollar an hour jobs too? They're just actually sick of it and fighting for better wages among other things. |
someguest
10.06.11 | Mortgages are contracts. If you can't hold up your end of the deal, don't sign on the line.
Lobbying is a political problem. The only reason it happens is because the government allows it.
Firing happens.
Healthcare is a good, not a right. |
joplinpicasso
10.06.11 | someguest, you've been bamboozled, pummeled, and tricked into thinking working an $8/hr job is putting in your time, carrying your weight, and better than 'whining'. The richest in this country are not the richest by pulling their weight. |
taxidermist
10.06.11 | Someguest has a point. |
joplinpicasso
10.06.11 | Oh, and RIP Steve Jobs. |
eternium
10.06.11 | So you're unaware of people getting foreclosed upon despite paying their bills. It's true, look it up.
The government allowing the wealthy to have so much power is the entire reason that they are out there.
The banks themselves are firing people despite making huge profits. Businesses are putting profits before people and that is sickening.
Health care is a right that every single human being should have access to. |
someguest
10.06.11 | The only way healthcare can become a right is to remove all monetary values from it. Simplistically, make all pharm companies public, etc. But that would just stifle research and development - so even if everyone had access there wouldn't be any progress. |
toxin.
10.06.11 | I wonder how many of these protesters have shitty "college" degrees from community colleges (instead of transferring out into a more respected institution) and thus want high-paying jobs? I think a lot of the problem is at the top (wealthy being paid too much, too many tax loopholes) AND the bottom (a lot of people who simply deserve shitty jobs complaining about the shitty jobs they have) |
eternium
10.06.11 | Sure, the private industry is a little more effective at developing new drugs. That said, I will still argue that fewer people would die under a government funded health care system that uses only what drugs already exists than a for-profit system that gains a few more drugs every year. What is the point of a new drug if you can't afford it? Besides, the for-profit system will always exist, I just hope that it will exist alongside a system that everyone can get into. |
eternium
10.06.11 | "I wonder how many of these protesters have shitty "college" degrees from community colleges (instead of transferring out into a more respected institution)"
You have any idea how much a "more respected institution" costs? The students are already in debt, do they really want more when they already feel that it isn't worth it? |
eternium
10.06.11 | That said, I've seen pictures of Harvard students and professors at the protest. |
DoctorPencil
10.06.11 | oh thats like the time |
someguest
10.06.11 | If these protestors are as poorly off as they let on, they probably could've receieved Pell grants while they were in school - you know, loans that aren't paid back. |
eternium
10.06.11 | The Pell grant is miniscule compared to the average college costs. Get your head out of your ass. |
someguest
10.06.11 | It's still free money. And they're whining about bailouts. |
toxin.
10.06.11 | "You have any idea how much a "more respected institution" costs? The students are already in debt, do they really want more when they already feel that it isn't worth it?"
That's true, but with scholarships, grants, and loans (and I understand the consequences of loans obviously) they should be able to make it.
I'm not saying Harvard. Of course. And money might be tight until you get into a comfortable, decent-paying job.
(On a different note, I do think the entire education system needs to be revamped here. Public education, from Kindergarten up to College needs to be cheaper for sure.)
|
someguest
10.06.11 | Dismantle teacher unions, allow charters to come in everywhere. |
eternium
10.06.11 | They're there because they can't find a comfortable, decent-paying job..
http://dberri.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/american-wages.png |
zxlkho
10.06.11 | I guess an Apple a day doesn't keep the doctor away... |
eternium
10.06.11 | Yes, dismantle the unions so that workers will not be allowed to organize for better conditions. |
foreverendeared
10.06.11 | That pic is very disheartening. |
eternium
10.06.11 | That's the point. That's our reality that most Americans aren't even aware of. |
someguest
10.06.11 | "Yes, dismantle the unions so that workers will not be allowed to organize for better conditions."
Their conditions are already better than the rest of the marketplace. They're holding on to benefits that aren't affordable while keeping schools with stagnant scores open. The cost per student in the public education system has more than tripled since the 1970s, but scores have only gone up an average of one percentage point over the whole time period. |
toxin.
10.06.11 | "They're there because they can't find a comfortable, decent-paying job"
But that misses the point. I don't know that these people are the ones who even deserve the "comfortable, decent-paying job." It's really cyclical in nature, because people can't afford college, so they can't get (and don't deserve) good jobs. The ones who don't think they're going to get good jobs won't try taking the loans to afford a "respected" institution.
That is a very telling picture though. Obviously it'd be nice to have some official data with it (how do you measure productivity) though |
eternium
10.06.11 | Maybe if you're talking about a principal. My mother is a teacher and doesn't make much. Again with the false assumptions. |
foreverendeared
10.06.11 | I wonder what they used to measure productivity. Output in quantity? Is quality factored in? |
someguest
10.06.11 | The unions screw over their own by allowing poor teachers who have nothing but senority on their side to keep their jobs. And the young teachers, many who are good, get shit on. |
foreverendeared
10.06.11 | xtoxin just asked the same question |
eternium
10.06.11 | Doesn't anyone with a college education deserve a comfortable, decent-paying job? Isn't that the entire fucking point? Community colleges are very good despite what you are implying. Many people are there not because they can't afford anything bigger and fancier. I thought the crappy jobs were only supposed to go to high school dropouts.
Besides, you're right. Your parents are poor, you can't afford college, so you're poor and your kids are poor, etc. That is why the American Dream is dying and that is why people are pissed at the ones raising tuition fees and keeping wages low. |
eternium
10.06.11 | "Output in quantity? Is quality factored in?" Probably somehow factor business profit divided by worker compensation or something. |
foreverendeared
10.06.11 | "That is why the American Dream is dying and that is why people are pissed at the ones raising tuition fees and keeping wages low."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KSO4EiimzYE |
eternium
10.06.11 | I wish Carlin wasn't right but he usually was. |
foreverendeared
10.06.11 | "It's called the American Dream because you have to be asleep to believe it." |
toxin.
10.06.11 | "Community colleges are very good despite what you are implying."
But see that's just opinion. You're speak with with powerful rhetoric but the meaning behind is a little shaky. DOES somebody with a community college degree deserve the kind of job/wages/benefits these protesters want? I don't have the data but I don't think that's necessarily true. I have a hunch a lot of these protesters have bad jobs because they're just not qualified and protested because they want better. Instead of improving themselves they want the government to improve their situation.
I'm not saying they're not justified at all. I'm not saying they are justified. I think there are some people (and IMO the minority) that are justified and demanding better wages and more people who are not.
And to jump back to community colleges, you see, CC's are worse than Cal State Universities here in California, which are worse than UC's, which are worse only to private colleges (Stanford and USC here in California). To attend community college, you need know requirements other than pass the pathetic requirements in California. For example, to get a diploma you need to pass Algebra I. I took Algebra I (for reference) in 7th grade and learned it (tutoring) in 5th.
To get a diploma, you likewise need to pass your classes, meaning a minimum of a 2.0 (probably 3.0-3.5 for the "better" majors). This is in a college that accepts the people who have no other college to go to. This is likely the bottom 25% that is unemployed or underemployed (in their minds) |
someguest
10.06.11 | When the American Dream was flourishing we didn't have 311 million people. And everyone wasn't "gimme, gimme" with their hands around the President's dick. |
Emim
10.06.11 | A man none of you knew has died, and you're carrying on about this inane bullshit.
Have some respect, you curmudgeons. |
Vesper
10.06.11 | "Doesn't anyone with a college education deserve a comfortable, decent-paying job?"
I think this expectation that education should manifest itself in monetary benefit is ultimately damaging. People would go through higher education, not necessarily because they wanted to gain more knowledge in a certain area, but because that piece of paper was practically required to get a good job. So, when a lot more people have college degrees, its value drops (although there is still competitive value if you went to an elite school). Now, why are people surprised that college degrees don't get them jobs? It's become the equivalent of a high school degree.
Not to mention, people want more jobs, but the fact is that our society is not only increasing in population but also becoming increasingly post-labor as we find more ways to do jobs efficiently, often removing humans from the equation altogether (i.e. mechanization). The entire idea of work needs to be rethought. |
eternium
10.06.11 | Cost is a huge factor, like I said. There's idiots at my state college but I'm afraid to move onto a larger one later because I'm not sure if I can afford it.
Your first half makes you sound like you believe most people don't deserve a comfortable, decent-paying job. Is that what life is about? Working your ass off for less than you can be comfortable with? I don't want to live from paycheck to paycheck but most people do. That's the reality that needs to be changed. You shouldn't have to lose everything because your boss made a dumb decision that cost you your job. |
foreverendeared
10.06.11 | ... but I didn't know him so of coarse I'm going to carry on. Someone else I don't know died while I typed this too. |
eternium
10.06.11 | "Tonight at #OWS, I met teachers, nurses, students, autoworkers, plumbers. All have jobs & bills & made time to protest." |
Emim
10.06.11 | Several dozen of them! Have you no heart?
Reduce yourself to a crumbling ball of pathetic ineptitude this moment! |
foreverendeared
10.06.11 | Putting myself in timeout now :[ |
eternium
10.06.11 | "It's become the equivalent of a high school degree."
This is a problem that I've worried about for years. I'd call it education inflation because I don't know what else it could be called. Really even a B.A. can't get you too far even if you've worked your ass off and paid thousands of dollars in tuition for it. This is devastating on the labor force. |
Emim
10.06.11 | I love the smiley faces that use brackets :] |
BallsToTheWall
10.06.11 | Great Depression Part II: Somebody call in the Japs to cause a ruckus so we can achieve financial prosperity. |
foreverendeared
10.06.11 | Me too :] |
eternium
10.06.11 | These people are being pepper sprayed, beaten, and arrested by cops while others accuse them of being lazy and worthless. |
someguest
10.06.11 | You have to know someone. You have to kiss ass. You have to make a good image for yourself. These kids think they can stroll out of college and just land a job without networking. College is too easy - as xtoxin pointed out. If everybody can do it there's nothing that sets anyone apart. |
Emim
10.06.11 | If they were not lazy and worthless then they wouldn't be getting beat up.
It's basic math. |
BallsToTheWall
10.06.11 | Muck like Fable 3....a revolution is necessary to facilitate an awakening. Who here is a prince? |
toxin.
10.06.11 | "Your first half makes you sound like you believe most people don't deserve a comfortable, decent-paying job"
This is the rhetoric I was talking about. I don't think a "comfortable, decent-paying job" is a birthright, and for the few people who disrespect the education system so much that they laugh about failing tests (as a track athlete I hear discussions like this all the time from fellow athletes) I don't think they really deserve the kind of jobs they want.
"Comfortable, decent-paying" is inherently subjective by nature, and while they should deserve jobs, I don't necessarily think that something like a life at McDonald's or an office job for their lives (with limited but still some upward mobility) isn't what they deserve. (And this is for the bottom percent of people, with whom I have trouble sympathizing)
"You shouldn't have to lose everything because your boss made a dumb decision that cost you your job.
Obviously that's related but at the same time it's a whole separate beast. I do agree that your boss being a greedy motherfucker and paying for it shouldn't cost YOU your job, but at the same time, what were you doing during school and such to put yourself in that situation? I feel bad that they undergo that, but at the same time each of those people could have avoided the situation. It's not a black or white thing by any means. |
Ovrot
10.06.11 | I'm half prince balls. |
toxin.
10.06.11 | @andcas,
For the record I've worked my ass off so I'm in position to get a full ride from USC. I'm at a half-ride already and with a good interview I could get a full ride. I'm one of those people who could (and might) have my parents pay for it because they can, but by no means would that limit my option were they to say "No I don't want to pay for your education." So there's the option of getting scholarships (or grants/aid) if you don't want a loan.
Also there's nothing wrong with CC for two years (or even four and doing really well) and transferring / getting a masters or something. It's just the people who bullshit through community college in addition to high school, get a shitty degree, and STILL expect to be paid well and have a good job.
I have nothing against CC as the institution and think it's an excellent choice for someone without money. |
BallsToTheWall
10.06.11 | Well then were' half way closer to solving this dilemma. |
Alexcore
10.06.11 | "Oh please. The very reason that they are out there is because they've tried and they have failed. They were told if they went to college then they would be successful. They went to college and found themselves thousands of dollars in debt and in an economy that will not hire them. They worked full time at a job for decades that ended up going under and they were let go, now unemployed and unable to find work. These people lose homes, lose health care, and lose the very foundation of their lives that they are either trying to work for or have already worked for.
The idea that someone can work themselves up to the top is a myth now and that is why they are angry. The system no longer works for the middle class, all of the success goes to the top and when the top fails they get bailed out while the rest of us lie in the streets."
wow, welcome to greece |
BallsToTheWall
10.07.11 | Im just going to get this out and say fuck you Steve Jobs. Thank you for making stupid lazy Americans even lazier with your unholy wizardy. |
toxin.
10.07.11 | Can this thread die? The somewhat pun not being intended of course. |