Torontonian
07.13.16 | both candidates suck balls so i really can't even make out which one is more disfavorable for me. |
Futures
07.13.16 | will be the worst thread of all time |
LotusFlower
07.13.16 | "not trying to start an argument would just like to know"
dont hide your real intentions |
Tyler.
07.13.16 | Can't wait for everyone's opinion !!!!!! |
Relinquished
07.13.16 | yea be honest you want a shitstorm |
Koris
07.13.16 | I hate both candidates |
FullOfSounds
07.13.16 | Both are terrible |
heck
07.13.16 | fuck em both, I'll probably vote third party |
LotusFlower
07.13.16 | good way to absolutely waste your vote and increase the chances of trump winning |
MistaCrave
07.13.16 | Not trying to start an argument, just wanting to hear some interesting opinions from the peaceable users of Sputnik Music amirite |
smaugman
07.13.16 | Lmao arnold for president |
TVC15
07.13.16 | Oi, this is a music site don't you know you can't talk about nothin unless it's music??!!11? |
p4p
07.13.16 | good way to get 1000+ comments thread i guess. smart move man, fucking bravo. |
heck
07.13.16 | "good way to absolutely waste your vote and increase the chances of trump winning"
I dislike Hillary just as much. so. who else would I vote for if not third-party
I really hate this "third-party = wasted vote" mentality but I'm not gonna get into it lmao |
Torontonian
07.13.16 | @relinquish this site is continuously a shit storm bruh |
TVC15
07.13.16 | GradeAUnderA for pres #MakeYoutubeGreatAgain |
MistaCrave
07.13.16 | If the list title is 3 words or less and is about something political then it's def gonna get at least 200 comments |
Relinquished
07.13.16 | it wasn't when I first started but current shitheads made this place filthy |
FullOfSounds
07.13.16 | I follow politics, but damn this year is stupid as hell |
Snake.
07.13.16 | can we make this thread about something else |
ArsMoriendi
07.13.16 | Not that I like Hillary, but I feel forced to vote for her since Trump is such a worse alternative and everyone knows 3rd party candidates realistically have no chance of winning.
Hopefully she'll adopt some of Bernie's ideas. |
Storm In A Teacup
07.13.16 | Jill Stein or Gary Johnson are the two I have to decide between |
ArsMoriendi
07.13.16 | Jill Stein is cool, if she had a fighting chance I'd vote for her easily. |
MistaCrave
07.13.16 | ^^^ This is the kind of mentality I agree with. I don't understand why people hold the whole "voting for the lesser of two evils" idea in such disdain. I mean, yeah, Hillary may not be the best candidate ever, but I would much rather have her in office instead of Donald Trump, and voting for a 3rd party candidate would be pointless |
Snake.
07.13.16 | so guys who here is playing pokemon go |
LotusFlower
07.13.16 | bye snake, the pokemon go thread is elsehwere. |
ArsMoriendi
07.13.16 | I've played Pokemon Go a few times now. It's pretty fun.
lol Cl0ver |
Conmaniac
07.13.16 | cant wait to wake up and see that this has 500 comments |
MistaCrave
07.13.16 | uhhhh not me cause I'm not a fuckign nerd |
Conmaniac
07.13.16 | also ill be voting for Hilary prob but begrudgingly |
Koris
07.13.16 | I'm actually re-playing the Mass Effect trilogy again to get hyped for the new game. Despite ME3's lackluster ending, I'm still really excited for Andromeda |
FullOfSounds
07.13.16 | my phone doesn't have enough space for go, kind of a shitty phone |
Koris
07.13.16 | So yeah, no Pokemon Go for me right now, despite how many people are flooding my newsfeed about it |
MistaCrave
07.13.16 | noice dude, I decided to start reading A Song of Ice and Fire and I'm hooked, flew through the first book and am onto the second. TBH that's the reason I haven't played Pokemon Go |
LotusFlower
07.13.16 | i cant believe the pokemon go comment actually worked |
MistaCrave
07.13.16 | wouldn't have worked if anybody else said it but snake |
Koris
07.13.16 | @Mista: Sweet. I'm about to finish Season 5 of GoT (I plowed through the entire series in a really short time), and the show's been fucking amazing so far |
TVC15
07.13.16 | Caught hella OP pokeanimals at the park cos I turned on my inscence and two pokestops had that item that attracts hella pokemon to the pokestops |
MistaCrave
07.13.16 | Prepare yourself for Season 6, IMO it's the undisputed most fast-paced and intense season so far. Episode 9 is arguably my favorite episode of any show ever |
Koris
07.13.16 | Yeah, I couldn't believe when I saw the 10/10 IMDB rating for Winds of Winter and the 9.9 rating for Battle of the Bastards. Can't wait |
Koris
07.13.16 | I just saw Hardhome and it blew me away. That battle at the end was amazing |
BallsDeep
07.13.16 | Why does it always come down to two or three insufferable pricks competing to lead the country, the same thing happens in Australia. I guess the role attracts a certain type of person |
ArsMoriendi
07.13.16 | Still at LV4 in Pokemon Go, so I haven't chosen a team yet.
I'm thinking Mystic because Articuno is the coolest legendary bird |
MistaCrave
07.13.16 | Once you catch up with the series you should consider reading the books. You'll realize how much of the story you missed if you end up reading them. Knowing so many more of the details of the story honestly makes the entire thing so much more engaging |
LotusFlower
07.13.16 | im watching 12 oz mouse right now, this show is actually really great |
FullOfSounds
07.13.16 | what's 12 oz mouse? |
LotusFlower
07.13.16 | adult swim show that is infamous and hated for its terrible animation, too many people dismiss it for its stupid pilot but the main show is actually pretty funny and has a really interesting plot. I think its currently considered the cheapest produced show of all time? |
Iamthe Nightstars
07.13.16 | "This is the kind of mentality I agree with. I don't understand why people hold the whole "voting for the lesser of two evils" idea in such disdain. I mean, yeah, Hillary may not be the best candidate ever, but I would much rather have her in office instead of Donald Trump, and voting for a 3rd party candidate would be pointless"
The only reason a 3rd party candidate doesn't have a chance is because of this mentality that they have no chance. It might not happen not happen this election but if enough people vote Johnson it could give the libertarian party some momentum to break the two party system in the next one. Seriously, how bad do our options have to be for people to vote 3rd party? You couldn't pay me to vote for Trump or Hillary. If you vote for the lesser of two evils you're still voting for evil. |
FullOfSounds
07.13.16 | sounds interesting tbh, just looked up the animation |
TVC15
07.13.16 | 12 oz mouse looks hilarious thanks for the new show CL0VER! Been needing something new to watch since my aunt's Netflix subscription wasn't renewed and can't catch up on Grey's Anatomy anymore |
BlacKapes
07.13.16 | hey guys can we talk about religion too
also black lives matter, police brutality, guns, and muslims PLEASE PLEASE IM BEGGING YOU WE NEED TO DISCUSS THIS ON SPUTNIKMUSIC.COM |
LotusFlower
07.13.16 | the show goes from being funny in that low budget "this is stupid" kind of way to being really interesting because of the underlying storyline that turns every weird thing in the show into a massive "WTF" when explained, it actively fights against its anti humor and its an interesting dynamic. I would say skip the pilot, however, its just a waste of time. |
FullOfSounds
07.13.16 | what's an episode i could look up now and watch? |
FullOfSounds
07.13.16 | it looks everything done in the show is gonna be funny because the animation looks like a 6 year old drew it |
BlacKapes
07.13.16 | stop changing the subject, you know everyone is just itching to hear everyone's opinions on these matters |
MistaCrave
07.13.16 | "If you vote for the lesser of two evils your still voting for evil."
Well I mean that's true, but realistically I'd rather lower Trump's chances of winning (even by an amount which is practically immeasurable) than vote for someone who has practically no chance of winning |
LotusFlower
07.13.16 | the show follows a serialized storyline, so you'd best be starting with the episode titled "Signals" which can be found on Kisscartoon (id go there) or the Adult Swim website (player is fucked on that site lol). Any background info you need to know from skipping the pilot is that Mouse is contracted for jobs through Shark. |
MistaCrave
07.13.16 | Yeah I just looked up the show and I'm so glad that clover mentioned it, that shit is my kind of humor lmao |
FullOfSounds
07.13.16 | alright thanks |
LotusFlower
07.13.16 | let me know what you guys think, im about 10 episodes in and im loving it. |
MistaCrave
07.13.16 | I've been watching Wet Hot American Summer (the show) recently for comedy. Without a doubt one of the funniest shows I've ever seen |
LotusFlower
07.13.16 | thats the netflix original right? never heard much about it since it came out, worth a watch I assume? |
sempiturtle
07.13.16 | All I see about this election is people saying they're gonna vote third party and people saying they're not voting third party because "its a vote for X candidate"
Maybe people should just vote for who they think is the best candidate for the job? |
MistaCrave
07.13.16 | Yeah it's a Netflix original, and "worth the watch" is an understatement. I was going into the show expecting it to be about as funny as the movie, but my expectations were blown out of the water. You've gotta check it out dude, it's only 8 episodes that are each 30 minutes long, and it's some of the best comedy you'll ever watch. The fact that most of the cast are in their mid 40s and are supposed to be playing 16-year-olds should say enough about the style of comedy. |
LotusFlower
07.13.16 | ill give it a look soon then, thanks! |
TVC15
07.13.16 | The theme music and opening credits for 12 oz mouse kicks ass omg |
p4p
07.13.16 | guys plz watch californication it has tons of sex! |
LotusFlower
07.13.16 | the band who did it are called Nine Pound Hammer, theyve done music for Aqua Teen Hunger Force before. |
Koris
07.13.16 | you guys should watch Watamote, especially if you have issues with social anxiety (like I often do) |
LotusFlower
07.13.16 | isnt that the one where the girl tries to get her brother to have sex with her? |
TVC15
07.13.16 | "Before would've been better... But before is over" |
LotusFlower
07.13.16 | wait thats like 30 animes |
LotusFlower
07.13.16 | @TVC Im making that my senior quote tbh |
FullOfSounds
07.13.16 | i'm laughing my ass off, this show is hilarious.
"sir you can't park your tank here" |
TVC15
07.13.16 | Well 12 oz mouse is as awkward and awesomelessy random as Aqua Teen Hunger Force so I think I'm going to love this show |
LotusFlower
07.13.16 | it becomes a wild ride as it goes on, trust me |
FullOfSounds
07.13.16 | I feel the same way TVC
thanks for showing us it, clover |
LotusFlower
07.13.16 | you guys are welcome, this is seriously becoming one of my favorite shows. |
RadicalEd
07.13.16 | How has this not turned into a shitstorm yet. Sput disappointing once again. |
LotusFlower
07.13.16 | snake ruined everything so blame them |
FullOfSounds
07.13.16 | the plot is getting better in rooster |
TVC15
07.13.16 | Adult Swim app sucks the vid keeps freezing while the audio keepa going |
LotusFlower
07.13.16 | thats why i was suggesting kisscartoon |
FullOfSounds
07.13.16 | yeah, the kisscartoon player is having no issues for me |
LotusFlower
07.13.16 | yeah, same people who operate kissanime. nice site all around. |
TVC15
07.13.16 | I'm guessing kissanime has Cowboy Bebop in there? Been meaning to hop onto that show since I started listening to the kickass soundtrack a while ago |
LotusFlower
07.13.16 | kissanime/cartoon have pretty much every show dubbed or subbed in some of the best quality you can find, i love them quite a bit. |
LotusFlower
07.13.16 | also if we're talking about superior animes you should all see Kaiba. one of the 6 good anime on earth. |
TVC15
07.13.16 | Is Nine Pound Hammer supposed to be a pun on Nine Inch Nails? |
LotusFlower
07.13.16 | they formed in 1985 so... no |
LotusFlower
07.13.16 | also i dont watch enough anime to justify a subscription to crunchyroll, and theres no conventional way to watch cartoons outside of whats airing. |
FullOfSounds
07.13.16 | I've never been the biggest anime fan, but Death Note was really cool |
LotusFlower
07.13.16 | the 6 good anime: FMA:BH, FLCL, Cowboy Beep Boop, Steins;Gate, Kaiba, and Neon Genesis. If you disagree or say there are other good animes you are lying and are a reptile. |
Futures
07.13.16 | this is probably gayer than the political shit |
LotusFlower
07.13.16 | ive seen about 40+ since i used to be a major anime fan and id only say 10 of them were good. the rest were shows people and the general consensus said was good. |
FullOfSounds
07.13.16 | i am a proud reptile |
heck
07.13.16 | if your list of good anime doesn't include anything Ghost in the Shell then your list is wrong |
LotusFlower
07.13.16 | Also in exaggerating, there are other really good animes like Ping Pong, Tetami Galaxy, OPM, Katanagatri, K-On, Trigun, Hellsign Ultimate, and other shows I've forgotten about. But the bad do outweigh the good to a comedicaly extreme level. |
FullOfSounds
07.13.16 | How could I forget about Spirited Away, anyone ever see that movie? |
BlacKapes
07.13.16 | black lives matter is fucking stupid, what do you think? |
LotusFlower
07.13.16 | I haveny seen ghost in the shell yet, sorry |
p4p
07.13.16 | love Madhouse works but for fluid combat animations i always prefer Clamp's |
LotusFlower
07.13.16 | I've only seen a little bit more than you, I honestly don't think its a genre that you need to see a lot of to have expertise in because a lot of it follows treads the same ground. Honestly my dislike for anime is half how many genuinely bad shows there are and half how many anime fans praise said bad shows (can't even begin to tell you how many people told me SAO was good back when it was popular) |
LotusFlower
07.13.16 | Oh another really good anime worth your time is Inferno: Requiem For the Phantom but avoid the dub like the plague. |
TVC15
07.13.16 | Uggghhh... My brain... My head... MY BEER |
FullOfSounds
07.13.16 | sao was pretty bad, cool concept though |
p4p
07.13.16 | Tatami Galaxy is so surreal its amazing |
LotusFlower
07.13.16 | Surreal stuff is always my favorite, or anything that dares to deviate from the "standard" art style as far as anime goes. |
p4p
07.13.16 | yea but i hate fantasy in a sports anime like Kuroko no Basuke for example and their fans hailed it as the best sport anime ever like what? bitch go watch Slam Dunk and read the fucking manga |
LotusFlower
07.13.16 | Ping Pong: The Animaton tho |
ConcubinaryCode
07.13.16 | If you cats are digging 12 Oz mouse, look up frisky dingo another show on adult swim. Our rather was. It reminds me of a spiritual predecessor of archer. |
LotusFlower
07.13.16 | I've heard some great thing about Frisky Dingo, I know it was made by the same production studio at least. |
p4p
07.13.16 | oh man the animation for ping pong is weird especially the facial expressions of the characters but its good tho |
LotusFlower
07.13.16 | It's also really smooth and super well directed, they really know how to prevent the ping pong aspect from going stale. |
TVC15
07.13.16 | Damn hats off to Snake for completely derailing the topic of the list |
ConcubinaryCode
07.13.16 | Yeah and they two shows have some recurring voice actors too. Awesome x is Gillette |
BallsDeep
07.13.16 | So are you guys into hentai? whats your thoughts on ASMR? |
Koris
07.13.16 | |
TVC15
07.13.16 | "whats your thoughts on ASMR?" Ask Toad |
BallsDeep
07.13.16 | Agree to disagree on the hentai, but manly ASMR will put hairs on your chest, in case you didn't see the video in the other thread
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPyNEbLnZh0 |
brainmelter
07.13.16 | 12 oz mouse rules |
ArsMoriendi
07.13.16 | Imagine Hillary Clinton doing an ASMR video while saying lines from 12 oz mouse and playing Pokemon Go. |
BlacKapes
07.13.16 | just cut my dick off and i'm bleeding to death on my floor |
MistaCrave
07.13.16 | Wow this thread has probably 3 comments about the actual subject that it was made to discuss and all of the other comments are about Pokemon Go, Henrai and 12 oz Mouse. Probs not what this guy was anticipating when he made it |
BallsDeep
07.13.16 | maybe he's just what the world needs im 2016 |
AlexKzillion
07.13.16 | I'm gonna vote for Kanye in 2020 what about you guys? |
Funeralopolis
07.13.16 | Trump will make America great again |
Ocean of Noise
07.13.16 | OK, so I know this thread has derailed, but I'm going to add my two cents anyway.
Clinton is NOT the ideal candidate that Sanders would have been, but she won't be a disaster. Trump WILL be a disaster. America has to vote for Clinton.
There are times that political risks are worth taking for the sake of the common good. If both the Republican and Democratic candidates were qualified, reasonable people, then it would be perfectly fine to vote for a 3rd-party candidate. But this is not that time. Trump is not a risk that the United States, or the world, can afford to take in 2016. His proposed policies range from inconsistent to completely barbaric. He will create all sorts of problems for America and for any countries working with America.
The U.S. CANNOT AFFORD to vote for anyone other than Hillary Clinton in November. |
FullOfSounds
07.13.16 | And the thread ended up ending with the original topic anyway |
StarlessCore
07.13.16 | lol clinton
im voting gary johnson though he cant win |
Rowhaus
07.13.16 | What exactly makes ANYONE think Hillary is qualified? Being a failure and a fervent liar as secretary of state? |
TVC15
07.13.16 | Clinton is a corrupt cunt that should be nowhere near the White House |
StarlessCore
07.13.16 | no the fact that the FBI proved she lied to peoples faces and maintained/sent/deleted classified emails that were subpoena'd
and then they said were not pressing charges
shows you how corrupt it all is, and how powerful she is |
TVC15
07.13.16 | She has nothing going for her, like congrats you're a woman but your gender won't automatically make you a good president you fucking idiot |
NastyCrab
07.13.16 | Clickbait ass title |
LotusFlower
07.13.16 | "like congrats you're a woman but your gender won't automatically make you a good president you fucking idiot"
you're really dumb if you think thats the leg she stands on |
Sinternet
07.13.16 | clinton ain't even that bad tbh
johnson is way worse
trump doesn't even need to be mentioned |
Evatallica
07.13.16 | Kanye 2020 |
Funeralopolis
07.13.16 | "you're really dumb if you think thats the leg she stands on"
I M W I T H H E R
M
W
I
T
H
H
E
R |
Friday13th
07.13.16 | ^ lol wreckage |
NastyCrab
07.13.16 | I M W I T H H E R
I M W I T H E R
I M H I T W E R
I M H I T L E R
Double Hitler confirmed Trump and Hillary damn |
Typhoon24
07.13.16 | "clinton ain't even that bad tbh
johnson is way worse
trump doesn't even need to be mentioned"
that's 100 right there |
FullOfSounds
07.13.16 | I actually liked Marco Rubio and Ben Carson |
TVC15
07.13.16 | Yeah Ben Carson was probably the best candidate |
SCREAM!
07.13.16 | are people really already forgetting how batshit crazy Carson was? |
Typhoon24
07.13.16 | carson been cooning out black people since day 1
makes doctors look bad too with his evolution denying ass |
Keyblade
07.13.16 | real shit |
Sinternet
07.13.16 | 'Ben Carson was probably the best candidate'
lolwut |
TVC15
07.13.16 | At least the dude was probably the least corrupt of the candidates. Wouldn't've minded Jeb either |
Sinternet
07.13.16 | jeb was probably the most sane of the republicans
idk about carson in relation to corruption but the dude was like a less racist trump on acid |
Sinternet
07.13.16 | she's stood for progressive values most of her life and she's had a lot of experience so i'm not too bothered about her winning, there are issues with her ties to major corporations but that's pretty much the same with virtually all the candidates
happy to see Sanders endorse her anyway, hopefully they can work together to deliver a better America |
BallsDeep
07.13.16 | Only fuckwits run for President/PM anyway, 95% of the time at least |
Typhoon24
07.13.16 | I think the trump voters that aren't frothing at the mouth are voting for him because they categorize Hillary, liberals, and pretty much all politicians (republicans too) as cogs in a machine that hasn't worked for them in years, and somehow this trump genius with dat sweet successful business record (lol) and no-nonsense flamboyant American spirit is gonna fix it. somehow. because he talks like them.
probably how they forgive all the stupid things he says |
BallsDeep
07.13.16 | I haven't been following the drama, why is young Bernard Sanders out of the running? I thought he was the most sensible, progressive major candidate there was? I guess I answered my own question. |
LotusFlower
07.13.16 | Sanders tried so hard to appeal to the youth demographic of votes that he forgot that almost every other demographic thinks hes a communist. A tad bit of an exaggeration but he did fuck up with his demographical appeal. |
Typhoon24
07.13.16 | sanders was out the second he said he didn't necessarily wanna lower taxes.
who cares about giving poor people access to health care and higher education, americans seemingly can't stand anyone promising something other than "NO TAXES EVER" |
Sinternet
07.13.16 | general ignorance is the only thing really stopping more socialist countries from existing, in reality socialism is beneficial to everybody |
Funeralopolis
07.13.16 | Bernie is a joke and he deserved to lose, even if he doesn't make a big show his ideas are consistently shit. |
Koris
07.13.16 | Well, Hillary and Trump are jokes and deserve to lose, but look at where we are now |
Typhoon24
07.13.16 | you guys know that no matter what happens, trump will probably appear on future generations' elementary school social studies textbooks?
he's that close to being prez yo |
Rowhaus
07.13.16 | Sin: Venezuela? Ever heard of it? What about East Berlin? Last time I checked, socialism has failed every time it's been tried. |
Typhoon24
07.13.16 | "Sin: Venezuela? Ever heard of it? What about East Berlin? Last time I checked, socialism has failed every time it's been tried."
but wot about democratic socialism tho, which is like every successful developed country except us |
Rowhaus
07.13.16 | Democratic socialism is like cold fire. It's a complete oxymoron. It doesn't matter what sort of friendly-sounding name you wanna sprinkle on top. Ultimately, it's still an unsustainable economic system that's doomed to fail. |
Sinternet
07.13.16 | 'What about East Berlin?'
communism, not socialism, big difference
also a USSR puppet which went against many socialist principles
'Sin: Venezuela? Ever heard of it?'
not fully socialist as the majority of the economy was not publically owned
also venezuela's turmoil at the moment is a lot to do with oil prices fluctuating, with oil being a major export
a lot of the government's policies have also been increasingly right-wing |
anarchistfish
07.13.16 | If you still think sanders is a socialist you probably shouldn't be allowed to vote |
BallsDeep
07.13.16 | yeah I'm no capitalist but ill admit Socialism is better in theory then practice not to mention Human nature makes communism unattainable |
Knave
07.13.16 | I love Trump. Can't wait to vote for him again in the general. |
Typhoon24
07.13.16 | knave could u explain why ur voting for him if u aren't trolling? lay it all out pls |
Knave
07.13.16 | Because I want to see all Muslims dead and Mexicans sent back to Mexico and a trade war with China and all black people in jail. I don't need to explain myself to you. I'm not attempting to convert you. I answered the question. This post is a troll, but I am not kidding when I say I love Trump. I think he is the absolute answer to what is wrong with the United States' culture right now. |
Typhoon24
07.13.16 | "I think he is the absolute answer to what is wrong with the United States' culture right now. "
could you elaborate on this? I think your opinion (and anyone else who likes trump) on this matter is also something this thread wants to learn about. I wont come at you or anything, I just wanna know |
NastyCrab
07.13.16 | Hey kid are u a mexico? |
Knave
07.13.16 | I think we are soft as a nation. I also think we are content with allowing our common culture (American culture) to deteriorate. The strength of a society is in its commonality and reliability internally. We don't count on eachother anymore as Americans. There is far too much fear among factions of our American society. A house divided against itself can't stand. I think what Trump does is he takes the "American" in any "blank-American" statement and magnifies it. For example, race relations are terrible right now. Instead of focusing on the division, the "African" in "African American," Trump will focus on the issue from the "American" standpoint. If we constantly perceive eachother as the enemy we will never be able to fix anything because domestic conflicts resemble wartime more than concerted cohesive efforts to better our society. We focus on bullcrap instead of solving issues directly and efficiently. I don't think he's going to be the savior of the country or anything. I do, however, think he will address big issues that need addressing. I also like that he isn't controlled by special interest groups. The special interest monopoly is my single biggest voting issue, and I can't in all good consciousness vote for Hillary for that reason. I also lean conservative economically, own guns, live in a bad neighborhood, and can't find work. I'm the textbook Trump supporter. I'm also 23, so I'm probably a bit on the younger side of his traditional base, and I am college educated, currently pursuing a master's in political science. |
Knave
07.13.16 | I'm also a black dude. I know that's not relevant to me, or anyone in the Trump camp for that matter, but I know that generally speaking race is a hot button right now. I figured it was relevant. |
Iamthe Nightstars
07.13.16 | I think my favorite thing I hear from Sanders supporters is that he's not a socialist, he's a democratic socialist. That's like saying black metal isn't metal. Yes it is. It's just a certain type of metal. |
Conmaniac
07.13.16 | Knave I respect your opinions and despite how well written that statement is I think your are very delusional |
Knave
07.13.16 | Okay. |
SCREAM!
07.13.16 | "I think my favorite thing I hear from Sanders supporters is that he's not a socialist, he's a democratic socialist. That's like saying black metal isn't metal. Yes it is. It's just a certain type of metal. "
In the end though, they're still wrong I think. He's more of a social democrat (ie has some socialist leanings but def not a full blown socialist). COrrect me if I'm wrong here. |
Funeralopolis
07.13.16 | Entitled Sanders supporters who think they are owed the fruit of other's labour by virtue of existence and hold personal greed over the good of the country as their voting criteria above all while simultaneously decrying the fat cats in power for using their power to gather resources are the most delusional of all. |
Conmaniac
07.13.16 | Your statements about Trump also directly contradict statements Trump himself has made, especially about race. You say we should stop perceiving each other as the enemy yet Trump has openly made statements painting certain races as the enemy. You may write this off as pandering to a certain demographic but I, for one, am concerned as to what may happen to certain minorities if he is elected president. You can't just ignore some of the blatantly racist remarks he has made against both Muslims and Mexicans |
Typhoon24
07.13.16 | so i think here are your four points, correct me if they’re wrong:
1. Trump focuses on the “american” in us rather than the things that divide us
I don't know about that, he seems to do a lot of the opposite. Grouping mexican americans with mexican criminals, conveniently referring to both good and bad muslims (mostly the bad) as “they,” whatever birther bullshit he pressed on for Obama, sarcastically referring to him as “our great African American president” when referring to riots in Baltimore. I mean, you can say Americans are soft for taking offense at that but he aint necessary helping either.
2. not run by special interest groups
true, but he is still supported by all those corporations he promises to cut taxes for...also guys like the NRA are behind him. We also gotta point out that trump IS a special interest group. he is the same as the corporations and fat cats he complains ruined congress.
3. Hillary is corrupt or at least corruptable
can’t argue there
4. Economic policies are closer to economic conservatism.
True, but he hasn’t been very clear about anything. I stopped reading too much after he said he was going to successfully tax china every time they misbehaved. or about abolishing the IRS
|
Knave
07.13.16 | I think if you have it in your head that Trump is divisive, you will see it all the time because we are cognitively conditioned to view politics as a group +group+group= big tent party. I think Trump throws that whole dynamic out the window and just says we are all Americans. He also has not said that Mexican-Americans are criminals and rapists. He said that some of the illegal immigrants that are located here are rapists, which is absolutely true. The Mexican/American border is a hotbed for rape and crime, and many women illegally migrating to the US are subject to rape. The statistics are staggeringly high. I feel like many people feel this way about Trump because it's the best angle of attack to discredit him as a speaker. His ideas are dangerous to the influx of cheap, untaxable labor that Republican and Democratic donors absolutely love. I actually like that Trump is a special interest group himself, not owned by one. It means that he has a vested economic interest in the health of the US. I also know he could be sitting on the beach and retiring in his 70s, but instead he is risking his life every day because he sees this country as heading in the wrong direction. I agree with him. |
Conmaniac
07.13.16 | What Trump does is he takes a reasonable issue (like the one you mentioned about the Mexico/USA border) and uses it as leverage to make generalizations about entire races. Trump isn't concerned about this issue specifically nor does he have any reasonable polices that will fix this issue. He is justifying his own racist tendencies and advocating for mass deportation due to his own inherent racism |
Typhoon24
07.13.16 | if he said "some of the Mexicans illegally entering into this country are murderers and rapists," no one would have a problem.
he instead says "they're coming into this country...unbelievable..we need a wall. they're coming in, they're rapists, they're killers..."
all that vague talk that could easily be interpreted negatively is a bad look for a potential president, no? Also, if I was a Mexican American (im also a 23 year old black dude), I'd want a president who is more careful when talking about such a hot button issue
Also I doubt he cares about this country at all. I think his egomaniacal viewpoint (not dissing him, he's probably take pride in being called that) and history of being a professional celebrity signal to me that he only cares about Donald trump. |
Knave
07.13.16 | Conmaniac, as someone who lives with race every day thrown constantly in my face due to the color of my skin, I generally found that "racist!" isn't an argument. Saying Trump is a racist isn't an argument, it's an attempt to dismiss him based upon your perception of his character. I think we all need to stop worrying about race issues to the degree that we do and start building together. I have no doubt that Trump's egomania will be a tremendous asset in office. He would never allow the country to falter under his watch, as it would haunt him for the rest of his days if he was an objectively bad president. |
Funeralopolis
07.13.16 | that post like 4 above this one was beautiful Knave |
Typhoon24
07.13.16 | edited, thanks ala
"He would never allow the country to falter under his watch, as it would haunt him for the rest of his days if he was an objectively bad president."
all those bankrupted Trump ventures don't seem to have burdened him too much. |
Conmaniac
07.13.16 | How can you dismiss his blatant racist statements as an argument? It's not that I perceive him as racist it's that he IS racist. His character is built upon his actions and his statements and I believe it is totally justifiable to judge his character in this light. Again, I think you are delusional because you are throwing your own ideals into Trump's character. How can we all just "stop worrying about race"? The harsh reality is that racism is still very prevalent in this country and turning a blind eye to it and saying "let's all just hold hands and build this country up together" is ignoring people that are being oppressed everyday. |
Knave
07.13.16 | You mean the 7 failed companies out of over 500 successful businesses? Yeah, he's a real disaster... I never understood that line of argumentation. That's over a 98% success rate. Compared with the one company Hillary founded, Whitewater, which ended in several arrests for fraud before it collapsed, I'd prefer Trump's record. |
Ocean of Noise
07.13.16 | It's hard to know what he believes about anything, really. He's incredibly inconsistent, and that's the main problem. |
Knave
07.13.16 | I think your "racist!" triggerfinger is just a little too itchy and I don't think most of America agrees with you, Conmaniac. |
Rowhaus
07.13.16 | we could sit here and meticulously pick apart everything a candidate says, or we could extract the true message from the words. I think Trump's platform is very clear, and whether you agree with it or not, these racism allegations can't be proven. Words are malleable and can be spun/interpreted every which way. It's this PC eggshell-walking that Trump, and a lot of the US citizenry for that matter, resent. It holds people back from discussing real solutions to problems. |
Conmaniac
07.13.16 | I think if you look to your own people, Knave, you will see that they do in fact agree with me. |
Knave
07.13.16 | I like what Rowhaus said. Trump's platform is for America First. Hillary's platform is that she's been drooling over the Presidency since she was in college and she's a woman. She doesn't have a campaign message. At least not one based on anything substantiative. |
Typhoon24
07.13.16 | he failed a lot more than 7. Trump Mortgage, Trump Airlines, Trump Casinos (half of atlantic city, too), Trump Steaks, GoTrump.com and Trump University are pretty big blunders from the list. no one can call themselves a successful businessman after doing that.
|
Knave
07.13.16 | My people ARE the American people. |
Knave
07.13.16 | "I think if you look to your own people"
This really drove me up the wall. So because of the color of my skin I have to identify with those rioters in Baltimore? THAT, my friend, is racism. My people are you, my family, and my fellow citizens, regardless of race. All Americans. |
Conmaniac
07.13.16 | Then you should be upset when YOUR Americans are being oppressed |
Knave
07.13.16 | Typhoon, we get it. You don't like Trump. You don't have to twist yourself into pretzels trying to convince anyone that a billionare landowner and real estate developer is economically unsuccessful. |
Rowhaus
07.13.16 | Damn Con, you just got roasted! Seems like YOU are the ignorant one. |
Knave
07.13.16 | How are we being oppressed? We live in the freest society in the world and we are damn lucky to. |
Typhoon24
07.13.16 | conmaniac is totally right about this. i get that no one should decide what is good for a race of people but trump hasnt shown any love for us blacks (especially after what he said about latinos and muslims). that should be a sign that maybe he will continue to be like that. |
smaugman
07.13.16 | Rip america 1776-2001 |
Keyblade
07.13.16 | damn knave shuckin and jivin real hard |
Knave
07.13.16 | He doesn't have to! Just include yourself in the "American" category and stop looking to be pandered to and, my gosh, he may just have shown some love for you! |
Sinternet
07.13.16 | e d g y |
smaugman
07.13.16 | Every group of people that are poor or less fortunate are victims lmao |
smaugman
07.13.16 | Lol yea like hillary is better |
smaugman
07.13.16 | Both suck tbh |
StarlessCore
07.13.16 | gary johnson or bust guiz |
Conmaniac
07.13.16 | I'm so confused Knave. Minorities aren't looking to be "pandered" to they are looking for equality and Trump hasn't shown any signs of promising this to any group. |
Conmaniac
07.13.16 | I agree that we should unite as Americans but we can't just ignore the still prevalent racist institutions that still exist in this country. |
Knave
07.13.16 | Equality is the definition of what he is providing. He hasn't shown signs of promising this to any group because when you inherently focus on the development of one group over another, you are explicitly rejecting the idea of equality. |
anarchistfish
07.13.16 | "Why would you put yourself into a demographic based on race though?"
cos those constructs are politically relevant |
Rowhaus
07.13.16 | Johnson would have my vote if he'd change his mind on the border |
anarchistfish
07.13.16 | you can't just pretend these social structures don't exist, that just obscures the power relations even further |
Conmaniac
07.13.16 | " when you inherently focus on the development of one group over another, you are explicitly rejecting the idea of equality."
So you want to keep everything the way it is now? The idea of equality is equality and the fact is that certain groups of people have way more disadvantages than others. You can't just ignore that |
smaugman
07.13.16 | It's so easy blaming the "underrepresentated" percentage of blacks as leaders and important figures on racism |
anarchistfish
07.13.16 | people focus on the race aspect of trump's views too much though (in relation to all the other shit) |
Knave
07.13.16 | There are two black communities in the US. It's ridiculous that all of us are being lumped in with gang-culture, liberalism, and anti-police sentiment. The black people that always resented being "African Americans" with the emphasis on the African love Trump, like me. |
Conmaniac
07.13.16 | responding to Knave not u ALA |
smaugman
07.13.16 | America needs affordable education |
anarchistfish
07.13.16 | i'm not really addressing you in particular alchemist
"It's ridiculous that all of us are being lumped in with gang-culture, liberalism, and anti-police sentiment. "
yet it's so much less ridiculous to lump them into two |
Sinternet
07.13.16 | you guys need socialism |
Keyblade
07.13.16 | yea man let's ignore race, were all one ppl! except for when I'm twice as likely to get shot by a cop, or 1/2 as likely to land a job or 18 times more likely for my son to be tried as an adult for a crime. foh with that shit |
smaugman
07.13.16 | Socialism sucks as far as the defintion of it goes. |
Knave
07.13.16 | It's really not. There's a reason the black vote is perceived as a block group. I consider that the mainstream black community will call me an "Uncle Tom." There are mainstream black voters who engage in groupthink and put the black community before all else, and then there are those who explicitly reject that. I've never, in my entire life, met someone halfway on that fence. |
anarchistfish
07.13.16 | i'll be honest I never got the "african-american" thing being a liberal love |
Conmaniac
07.13.16 | "yea man let's ignore race, were all one ppl! except for when I'm twice as likely to get shot by a cop, or 1/2 as likely to land a job or 18 times more likely for my son to be tried as an adult for a crime. foh with that shit" [2] |
Knave
07.13.16 | All I'm saying is that the way to get Americans to view the black community as an asset to the country and not a constant problem to be fixed is if everyone actively contributes toward Americanism, not self-segregation through these culturally divisive movements. BLM is a cancer to race relations. |
anarchistfish
07.13.16 | "I've never, in my entire life, met someone halfway on that fence."
which is why those power structures need to be taken into account. to distance yourself from that stereotypical views of black people you almost have to position yourself totally in opposition to that ideal. that it comes across as "acting like a white man/uncle tom" to idiots really just reflects the emphasis made on a particular culture |
Rowhaus
07.13.16 | There's a reason kids of all races play together on the playground. They're unaware of these social constructs and look at each other as people. There's so much to be learned from the mentality of children imho. If we work to dissolve these social constructs and look at each other as equals, these racial tensions would disappear. Politicians want to buy votes so they can stay in power. The majority of them could honestly care less about minorities of any kind. |
Conmaniac
07.13.16 | why would people being oppressed want to identify with their oppressors? I feel like this is the main flaw in your "ideal America" |
Knave
07.13.16 | anarchistfish, I couldn't agree more. The stigma internally at criticizing President Obama is staggering, no matter how small the criticism. |
Futures
07.13.16 | this has really gone to hell |
miketunneyiscool123
07.13.16 | I think Donald has enough "balls" to make a worthwhile candidate, but he falls short with his "emptiness" as an individual. I take neither him nor Clinton for president. |
Knave
07.13.16 | Because you have to understand where the power lies in a situation in order to affect any change and cater to it. |
anarchistfish
07.13.16 | "this has really gone to hell"
well now that you've commented |
Conmaniac
07.13.16 | and the people in power will want to stay in power, thus never allowing for any change for those that arent |
Conmaniac
07.13.16 | ALA i think you completely misunderstood my point |
Knave
07.13.16 | SO BE AN ASSET TO THE SYSTEM SO THAT YOU CAN HAVE A PIECE OF THE PIE. Why is this hard to understand? It's capitalism. |
Futures
07.13.16 | well now that you've commented
you are debating politics on sputnikmusic.com take a step outside |
Conmaniac
07.13.16 | It's too hard so just conform yeah this is a very very dangerous mindset to instill in people |
NastyCrab
07.13.16 | anyone wanna use this thread to talk about their deeply held religious beliefs or lack of beliefs??? |
Conmaniac
07.13.16 | you wont ever make a difference so just play along. things are always going to be this way so why not just accept your disadvantages and play the game. sorry man it's unfortunate but thats the way our country works. its capitalism man nothing you can do |
miketunneyiscool123
07.13.16 | I think a big problem is that many people are putting the weight of the world on the shoulders of a presidentail candidate to make the U.S. a "better place to live again" rather than all us huddle and think about what the fuck we can do about it. It's called revolution. When a problem is being worked on from the inside looking out rather than the outside looking in, we can all learn tolerance and compromise on a common goal and get shit done. That is why I respect those who spoke against this political bullshit (Martin Luther King Jr. and Jesus Christ for two big examples) and focused more on what we can all do about it. |
Conmaniac
07.13.16 | didn't we already have a religion thread @Crab?? |
Knave
07.13.16 | It's not that it's too hard, it's that it will eventually lead to a division so great that it won't be able to be rectified without force. I don't want that to happen, when the potential for mutual success is absolutely here. You just don't want to because you perceive systemic oppression and blame rather than taking charge of your own situation and changing what you can. I've done some of the dirtiest jobs for some of the lowest pay, because that's what I could do at the time. Years later, I worked myself through school. If you want personal success, take it. Protesting and complaining is the equivalent of asking. |
anarchistfish
07.13.16 | i always laugh at those that dig at humanities but then call economics a science |
Conmaniac
07.13.16 | dont protest man youre only hurting our country. oh your friend was unfairly killed by the people that were supposed to protect him? too bad man that sucks but dont speak out against it. we are supposed to be united man ignore the fact that you could be next and just play along |
Ryus
07.13.16 | "Yeah Ben Carson was probably the best candidate"
fucking lmao |
Knave
07.13.16 | Or you could just be really respectful of cops and constantly show them your hands when interacting with them. Again, it's about understanding where power lies in a situation. |
NastyCrab
07.13.16 | @Conmaniac yeah I just wanted to make this thread more of a fucking mess tho |
miketunneyiscool123
07.13.16 | Not all cops are bad people, and any decent cop won't do anything against you as long as you don't act stupid. |
Conmaniac
07.13.16 | all hail big brother. gotta know where the power lies man |
anarchistfish
07.13.16 | Police's problems are much more deep rooted than just the people that serve (though obviously it attracts the worst sorts of narcissists) |
anarchistfish
07.13.16 | What do people think of Theresa May |
Knave
07.13.16 | It's not about hailing big brother, it's about knowing how to succeed and stay alive in the world. Do you want to change the world so it fits your mindset because you're incapable of adapting to the social systems that keep us all safe from anarchy? I also have a theory that if more black youths wore belts, alot of the shootings could be avoided. When you run from the police, but you need to pull your pants up, your hands go to your waist. If I was a cop, that would be a BIG red flag, no matter how innocuous the gesture might be. Again, though, it goes back to being able to understand that we all want the same thing, which is for everyone to stay safe. |
Knave
07.13.16 | I've gotta jet you guys I have to drive to my parents' house. Good talk. I hope we all one day live in a great society where we try to understand eachothers concerns and compromise to a degree that minimizes any sort of group conflict. I love you all and it was fun talking to ya |
miketunneyiscool123
07.13.16 | Self-fulfillment is important, very important, but so is solidarity. If there's no solidarity, how the fuck can we be a nation? |
Conmaniac
07.13.16 | what anarchistfish said
although I do agree with you on that Knave that won't fix the issue really. the racial tensions that have been prevalent for decades are the main causes of a lot of these issues, especially with cops. have you ever read the book Native Son? kinda interesting how a lot of current events were basically predicted in the book |
Conmaniac
07.13.16 | nice talk yeah thx for helping me kill time at work |
anarchistfish
07.13.16 | We're gonna save ourselves by electing someone that doesn't believe in climate change. That'll fix it |
Conmaniac
07.13.16 | doesn't believe in gay marriage. man look how united that is! |
Funeralopolis
07.13.16 | implying cops even disproportionately kill black people at all |
anarchistfish
07.13.16 | Funeralopolis is a libertarian guys dw ignore |
Conmaniac
07.13.16 | trying hard not to respond aha |
Conmaniac
07.13.16 | disproportionate overall? no. but when you take into account the percentage of blacks vs the percentage of whites in this country I would beg to differ. you cant just say "more whites were killed than blacks" you have to look at other statistics as well. |
SCREAM!
07.13.16 | "implying cops even disproportionately kill black people at all"
implying there isn't data to prove it |
Funeralopolis
07.13.16 | "Funeralopolis is a libertarian guys dw ignore "
Haven't been one for a long time but glad you were keeping track. I dig the Trump/alt-right shit now make sure to jot that down. |
Funeralopolis
07.13.16 | "implying there isn't data to prove it"
They are killed more at raw numbers, but not when you consider important factors like in percentage of arrests or altercations with police, black people in US commit multiple times the severe crimes as whites and get killed 7.13 in one million vs white 2.91 in one million |
zakalwe
07.13.16 | 'Thug life' has a lot to answer for. |
Conmaniac
07.13.16 | how many of those arrests are warranted though and how many were due to the color of their skin? how many of those altercations were due to racial issues from the cops? again you can throw out statistics but it's hard to measure the racial inequality in this country |
anarchistfish
07.13.16 | Is alt right that different to libertarianism? |
anarchistfish
07.13.16 | We have moved onto the next meme guys. Ayn rand is so 2013 |
Typhoon24
07.13.16 | do u guys think knave was for real |
Conmaniac
07.13.16 | yeah |
Funeralopolis
07.13.16 | "Is alt right that different to libertarianism?"
Yes very much so. Trump is often seen as the first true American candidate to represent this growing ideology. Alt-right is anti-establishment, tired of mainstream media, tired of being told what to think and tired of political correctness. It is nationalistic and focused on looking for the interests of our country and economy regardless of the left wing media trying to slander us or call us racists. It is cautious of globalism and post-modernism. It has tendencies of both left wing and right wing in some ways. It is about looking out for what is good for OUR people, the people of our country, and doing what is right for the long-term of the country's majority, not about giving out handouts.
Due to its anti-globalization nature it is actually in many ways not capitalist but a mixed economic system of government intervention to protect jobs and protect society from foreign risk.
One of the absolute best voices in this movement and a true sensation in it is Stefan Molyneux, who makes fantastic political videos on Youtube. Would encourage anyone to watch his stuff. |
porcupinetheater
07.13.16 | But trying to be isolationist in a world that's so globally interconnected and facing issues on that same global scale that put the future of the human race at risk is irresponsible at best. It's a really regressive ideology that's trying to apply outdated standards to a time when they aren't applicable. This alt-right "us vs. them" mentality is delusional and dangerous.
Plus, extreme nationalism's always worked out super great, more of that please! |
Typhoon24
07.13.16 | sounds like libertarianism for people that don't like progressive politics |
anarchistfish
07.13.16 | Libertarianism with bonus fascism great |
TheGreatQ
07.13.16 | As someone who is on the right, the alt right is total shit. |
Typhoon24
07.13.16 | the Wikipedia page isn't too nice about alt-right either. anti-Semitism, facism, dark enlightenment, anti-immigration, and white nationalism are related terms lol |
zakalwe
07.13.16 | The left has mutated into the most authoritarian backward thinking tyrannical monster of all time. Hitler was more liberal. |
Conmaniac
07.13.16 | lol wat |
Typhoon24
07.13.16 | if u said authoritarian FORWARD thinking tyrannical monster of all time, I'd kinda agree with you |
TheGreatQ
07.13.16 | "the Wikipedia page isn't too nice about alt-right either. anti-Semitism, facism, dark enlightenment, anti-immigration, and white nationalism are related terms"
This is pretty accurate in my experience except I haven't really met any of the actual fascist ones. |
Sinternet
07.13.16 | leave zak be, if anyone else goes in that chamber the echo might get distorted |
Sinternet
07.13.16 | alt right is lol
libertarianism is lol
socialism is the one true ideology |
smaugman
07.13.16 | Commie bastard |
porcupinetheater
07.13.16 | Don't be dissin on a comrade, let's all have peace over a nice bowl of hot borscht |
ShadowRemains
07.13.16 | trump openly pumped his ego about being right after 50 people died at a nightclub
that's all i really need to know he's a complete piece of shit that should be nowhere in the same area code as the white house |
Ryus
07.13.16 | yeah that was pretty much the worst thing ever |
ShadowRemains
07.13.16 | how the hell can anyone vote for someone after something like that? |
Conmaniac
07.13.16 | delusional people
sadly there are many of those in this country |
Ryus
07.13.16 | idk man. nothing he says has any consequences in terms of losing support--just shows you the caliber of his voter base |
Sinternet
07.13.16 | they're in every country, it's just the americans are the loudest ones |
zakalwe
07.13.16 | Testify!! |
ShadowRemains
07.13.16 | "The left has mutated into the most authoritarian backward thinking tyrannical monster of all time. Hitler was more liberal."
you first |
TheGreatQ
07.13.16 | Lol fuck this site again |
Sowing
07.13.16 | You kids have fun |
Futures
07.13.16 | List Closed for Posting by Moderators |
p4p
07.13.16 | http://i.ytimg.com/vi/SZYxXKu2d3U/hqdefault.jpg |
Iamthe Nightstars
07.14.16 | "Maybe people should just vote for who they think is the best candidate for the job?"
Wow, what a completely rational way of voting. Either people aren't doing this or America really is even dumber than I thought. |
Snake.
07.14.16 | this thread was doing well when we were talking about pokemon go wtf happened |
JohnnyoftheWell
07.14.16 | RIP Pokemon Go |
JigglyPDiddy
07.14.16 | The Republican Platform wants to ban gay adoption. So fuck him. |
Iamthe Nightstars
07.14.16 | Pokemon go is just as lame as politics. |
Snake.
07.14.16 | at least it won't conjure up textual cancer like politics on this site will |
iloveyouall
07.14.16 | fuck the right, I'm flexin' |
zakalwe
07.14.16 | Don't quite know what to think about gay adoption to be honest. |
Funeralopolis
07.14.16 | "trump openly pumped his ego about being right after 50 people died at a nightclub
that's all i really need to know he's a complete piece of shit that should be nowhere in the same area code as the white house"
Literally every politician does this, Obama and Hillary got right on top of pushing gun control rhetoric real quick. Don't really see anything wrong with it tbh, in the wake of tragedy while people are thinking about it, it is important to think about solutions.
|
miketunneyiscool123
07.14.16 | What's wrong with gay adoption? What's wrong with gay? We're all human aren't we? |
Funeralopolis
07.14.16 | I think gays should be able to adopt but I'm against gays having their own naturally butt born babies |
miketunneyiscool123
07.14.16 | I'm not "gay" per se, but how would you feel if I said I'm against you having your own kids? |
miketunneyiscool123
07.14.16 | It's not cool to make exceptions like "I don't mind this, but I'm against that" bullshit, especially if it's at the cost of some people not having as many rights as others. |
MistaCrave
07.14.16 | "I'm not 'gay' per se"
why don't you just go eat some hay. You could make things out of clay and lay by the bay, you just may, what do you say?
anybody |
Funeralopolis
07.14.16 | Giving birth out of your penis is too difficult hence why I think it should be banned |
miketunneyiscool123
07.14.16 | Isn't that Happy Gilmore? |
miketunneyiscool123
07.14.16 | @Funeral That's why they hire a woman to carry the baby or some shit like that. It's weird but still legit. |
MistaCrave
07.14.16 | maybe |
zakalwe
07.14.16 | I just think there's a further unraveling of the natural order, familial structure and unit when it comes to this sort of thing.
Am I saying a gay couple would make bad parents? No. Is it right for the child to be brought up without 'traditional' nurturing mother and father figures? I dunno dudes.
I don't know why some people are so aghast to believe that there are differences between sexes, differences between us all.
|
miketunneyiscool123
07.14.16 | Yes, there are differences, but we are still all human regardless. We should at least respect our differences as human no? Isn't that acceptance and tolerance? |
zakalwe
07.14.16 | Yeah I agree dude. I don't know what the bigger picture is. |
miketunneyiscool123
07.14.16 | I think people obsess about what they feel is the "ideal tradition" and when they stuff like gay marriage and gay adoption, they freak out and are against that solely for that. |
zakalwe
07.14.16 | Course not, but again being a single parent is not without its problems. Direct consequences. |
miketunneyiscool123
07.14.16 | I can relate since my mom has raised me when I was a child when my dad left me before I was born, and she raised my little bro when his dad wasn't in the picture either. And gay parents have to face discrimination and hatred. |
Knave
07.14.16 | This election is the plot of Happy Gilmore. Only question is how will Hillary react when she loses the gold jacket? |
miketunneyiscool123
07.14.16 | @Jacquibim Right on dude. "Right" ain't no one's fucking judgment to make but his/her own. |
evilford
07.14.16 | yea be honest you want a shitstorm [2] |
zakalwe
07.14.16 | Cheers man.
Yeah shit parents cover the spectrum which just about says it all to me. I just think that at the nuts and bolts of it a good mother and father offer a child a broader variation on what it is to be a family. It's the best unit for the overall benefit of the child.
|
miketunneyiscool123
07.14.16 | Absolutely. My mother may have been the only parent I've ever known, but with the help of my uncles (when I was younger), I turned out to be a pretty ok person. :) |
evilford
07.14.16 | "Course not, but again being a single parent is not without its problems. Direct consequences."
are you a single parent? if not then don't judge |
ShadowRemains
07.14.16 | "Literally every politician does this, Obama and Hillary got right on top of pushing gun control rhetoric real quick. Don't really see anything wrong with it tbh, in the wake of tragedy while people are thinking about it, it is important to think about solutions."
that is totally not what trump did though
|
zakalwe
07.14.16 | When you put an arm around your 6 year old nephew whose in absolute pieces because he can't understand why his dad left you get a vibe. |
evilford
07.14.16 | ok so you're talking about that scenario specifically and not just split parents who both share time w/ their kids? ok nevermind then |
SgtShock
07.15.16 | Seeing people defend trump and talk about "pc culture" as an issue that's threatening the US is really hurting my soul. Complaining about not being able to make racist remarks and disenfranchise minority groups from their own experiences is just a sign of white masculinity coming to grips with the fact that their grip is slipping. It's just one big tantrum and trump is the ringleader of it. |
Typhoon24
07.15.16 | so how bout that vp pick? |
Typhoon24
07.15.16 | pc culture is coming for your kids faster than isis and the Mexican cartel combined |
NastyCrab
07.15.16 | "Complaining about not being able to make racist remarks and disenfranchise minority groups from their own experiences is just a sign of white masculinity coming to grips with the fact that their grip is slipping. It's just one big tantrum and trump is the ringleader of it."
Basically. |
Keyblade
07.15.16 | [2] hard af |
Friday13th
07.15.16 | lol how can anyone "disenfranchise minority groups from their own experiences"? You race baiters say the stupidest things. Thanks for killing MLKJ's dream. |
zakalwe
07.15.16 | Well said.
|
Keyblade
07.15.16 | race baiters |
SgtShock
07.15.16 | @Friday13th Im assuming that's a question, not just a rhetorical bludgeon... The process I'm referring to is rooted in interactionist perspectives on inequality. See Schwalbe et al. (2000) for a more in-depth explanation -- particularly the section on emotion management. I can link other works if you're really interested. See also Michael Kimmel's 2013 Angry White Men or his 2008 Guyland for more info on the "tantrums" I am describing. |
Friday13th
07.15.16 | It was a question, one I can tell no one has a straight answer for. Go check out the anti-sjw side of youtube, bro. Wipes 4 years of university dogma in a few hours. |
SgtShock
07.15.16 | Oh fuck, nvm. This is Sputnik. Better save my sources and valid argumentation techniques for somewhere else. I'll just say "lol u wrong" instead. |
zakalwe
07.15.16 | That black bird looks fucking ridiculous dressed like that, could be a bloke for all I know?
Racist, misogenist, prejudice, sexist, islamophobic, hater, bigot, homophobe.
Righto.
|
SgtShock
07.15.16 | I see. Academic works are not valid sources of information. YouTube videos are. Of course. |
Keyblade
07.15.16 | lol check youtube bro |
Friday13th
07.15.16 | appeals to authority are fallacies
how about you use your own mind to judge if something is ridiculous or not
try to convince me yourself |
SgtShock
07.15.16 | Bruh, who needs college when you got Sargon of Akkaad? |
Friday13th
07.15.16 | I've done both and Sargon wins |
zakalwe
07.15.16 | Well if you want to actually learn a thing or to you might as well fuck college right off. |
SgtShock
07.15.16 | i linked you sources. You made up your mind that they were part of "university dogma" without even reading them. Sounds pretty fallacious to me, friend. |
zakalwe
07.15.16 | Interactionist perspectives on equality will not matter one jot to my white masculinity pal.
Pint? |
Friday13th
07.15.16 | don't fool yourself, you learned this stuff at college. The sources are secondary. Maybe if you sum up an interesting point I might be interested. So far "interactionist perspectives on inequality" is about as thought provoking as toast. |
SgtShock
07.15.16 | Zakalwe put things in perspective for me. I'll drink to that. |
SgtShock
07.15.16 | Friday, if you're legit interested in understanding I'll message you and we can arrange like a Skype call or something or maybe trade pm's. Some Sputnik thread is hardly the place to explain that kind of stuff. We'll just get drowned in memes and crosstalk. |
Keyblade
07.15.16 | who needs sources when ur a shining example of what he was talking about. u invoke an anti 'sjw' movement - sjw which is such a loaded term which is basically a euphemism for 'ppl who disagree with me'
so instead of being part of an anti-homophobia, anti-racism or anti-misogyny movement or any movement that opposes u know...actual injustices, u vehemently oppose those who are because they have the audacity to do so. look at zak just nonchalantly mocking those terms like they're not some serious shit. why can he do that? well because as Sgt mentioned, none of that shit matters or even applies to him |
Friday13th
07.15.16 | @keyblade Every anti-sjw acknowledges the existence of those things, it's the absurd worldviews that revolve around finding those traits everywhere is what we're against. Haha you know exactly who sjw's are and it's been made very clear. I can tell by your freudian slip of what the anti-sjw movement is against. The activists against mysogyny, homophobia etc. are obsessed. Just this week feminists in Nottinghamshire outlawed cat calling as a hate crime. |
MillionDead
07.15.16 | Literally don't understand how anyone who cares about people is a conservative, socially at least. |
zakalwe
07.15.16 | Because it's about wanting what's best for the people you total berk |
Keyblade
07.15.16 | what does that make u when ur obsessed with them then? why -are- u so obsessed anyway? at least they are obsessed with trying to combat injustice, however overzealous and misguided they can be. my point is that ur literally an entire movement against that, but against the real shit u simply 'acknowledge the existence of those things'. keep on fighting the good fight dawg |
Cygnatti
07.15.16 | "sjw which is such a loaded term which is basically a euphemism for 'ppl who disagree with me"
completely disagreed. ridiculous amount of sjw bullshit i've seen firsthand. |
Cygnatti
07.15.16 | btw guys, remember this gem!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAeB_yl2E90 |
zakalwe
07.15.16 | Give us an example cyg dude. |
Cygnatti
07.15.16 | there was a flier (and later an activist) outside the video game room saying
"[to the women/girls] did you know that you are in danger?" in referring to supposed (and completely misrepresented) 'gamergate' hostility to females and shit.
all the girl gamers in the room were like "lmao they're delusional" |
Wolfhorde
07.15.16 | I hope all of the priviliged motherfuckers in here get - at one point - their faces beaten in so badly that they won't recognize the face in the mirror and then have no legal recourse.
Maybe - maybe then - they'll think before spewing discriminating bullshit against those to whom this type of shit happens on a regular basis. |
Keyblade
07.15.16 | actual sjw's are jokes, they're the type of person u find in cringe compilation...nobody should take them seriously
the fact that there's an entire movement against the sjw boogeyman proves what Sgt was talking about when he said that ppl cant handle their grip slipping |
Cryptkeeper
07.15.16 | 'I hope all of the priviliged motherfuckers in here get - at one point - their faces beaten in so badly that they won't recognize the face in the mirror and then have no legal recourse.'
That's a healthy fucking perspective |
Keyblade
07.15.16 | wolf dont forget to remind them to stop playing the victim
and then when they point out that ur disenfranchising them from their own experiences, laugh and call them stupid race baiters |
Cryptkeeper
07.15.16 | I do feel like somewhere deep down the SJW movement has something constructive and benine to say and change, too bad it's overtaken by the amount of deluded third-wave feminists.
Good part of this is however that anti-SJW's have somewhat become what SJW's are supposed to be as in they constantly debunk their half-assed logic and horrific amount of fallacies to seek out true equality which they then support.
Not so much as in changing standing controversies, but rather preventing new ones. |
Sinternet
07.15.16 | 'sargon'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnZ-xACeuLA |
LambsBread
07.15.16 | the country will be unrecognizable after 16 years of SJW hysteria of Obama and Hillary. Trump is sort of in over his head, he puts his foot in his mouth on some wonky foreign policy shit, but he's not a bad person at all when you compare him to Hillary, he's actually a somewhat decent person.
I don't know who I support. I thought I liked Johnson but he has somewhat become a sellout to the same SJW PC nonsense as Hillary ("hey everyone lets ignore our immigration laws and accuse people who want to enforce them of bigotry... this isn't a childish thing to do at all."). Now i'm afraid Johnson will get on the debate stage (he has 12% in polls) if he gets 15% and it will turn into this lame sort of ganging up on Trump. If it's Trump vs Hillary in a debate Hillary is going to get worked. I don't think any candidate will be so disgraced on stage in recent memory, I actually think she is going to weasel out of the debates somehow. Trump has a devastating zinger prepared on every topic (EX Hillary is a false ally of LGBT because she gets money from governments who kill gay people). |
Sinternet
07.15.16 | i'm not gonna disagree that there are some fucking dumb and weird people in the 'sjw' movement but the whiny little alt-right white boys are 100x worse |
Cygnatti
07.15.16 | keyblade, dude they're infiltrating college campuses. they're getting people fired or threatening their credibility.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6ZVEVufWFI
they (blm are included) hijacked an orlando memorial vigil for the 50 people killed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ge9pHidD8sc
they stormed the stage from a conservative speaker, smacked the guy in front of an audience, and no one (not the security) stopped them. the school didn't punish them, and their professors were congratulating them doing so.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KI-84RzYDfY
"should not be taken seriously" - this would be a viable suggestion, if they actually had no power. but evidently, considering how they're able to get away with this stuff so often, get people to lose their jobs, etc. they obviously do have power. to ignore it is negligent and is a big part as to why this problem is as ridiculous as it is now (because no one took them seriously in the 2000s) |
Cygnatti
07.15.16 | "i'm not gonna disagree that there are some fucking dumb and weird people in the 'sjw' movement but the whiny little alt-right white boys are 100x worse"
completely disagreed. i don't like the alt-right either, especially considering they promot traditionalism (which i hate), but at least the alt-right has borderline no power and are not even mildly accepted by mainstream conservatives (trump is still not mainstream, some would argue he's not even a 'real' conservative) whereas sjws are accepted by mainstream liberals, and even some conservatives. the two don't compare (at this point), even if they are in part a response to one another. |
Wolfhorde
07.15.16 |
"wolf dont forget to remind them to stop playing the victim
and then when they point out that ur disenfranchising them from their own experiences, laugh and call them stupid race baiters"
oh right I forgot about that
@crypt: oh don't give me that shit, most of these "anti SJWs" who think racism doesn't exist, feminism was achieved with women voting rights and the like have absolutely no fucking issue with violence targeting people they don't like, nobody even bats an eye if a muslim is beaten to shit in a dark street corner and he has literally no legal recourse. But once you turn it around it's like "oh hey let's all stay civilized ok" |
LambsBread
07.15.16 | Such an ungenerous strawman Wolfhorde. No one thinks "racism doesn't exist", we just think BLM has been caught lying and being sensational dozens of times, and it's really getting old being accused of being racist when you point out the lies of habitual liars. |
MillionDead
07.15.16 | "Because it's about wanting what's best for the people you total berk" What's best for people is telling other people that they can't do things that offend the former's sensibilities? Also, there are going to be shitty people in any movement or group of people. Circumstances will see that all types of people latch onto all types of things. I don't like when people ignore logic or reason to create oppression in their heads. That's stupid and honestly undermines real issues. A lot of the issues brought up are, in fact, real and the conversation that it starts is really necessary. |
Trebor.
07.15.16 | Especially now considering his VP if you vote for Trump you don't care about civil rights and as far as I'm concerned that makes you a piece of shit |
Keyblade
07.15.16 | cyg see that's exactly my point. we gotta be worried about and oppose dubiously racist people getting fired and events being hijacked while we got ppl getting murdered in cold blood by cops, anti-lgbt laws being passed in the US in 2016 and institutionalized racism being as rife as ever literally happening right now?
and then anybody who points this out or opposes this is an sjw...who needs to be opposed. u see why the anti-sjw is lowkey just an anti-dont air my shit out movement? |
SgtShock
07.15.16 | CryptKeeper, I gotta ask: Do you actually know what third-wave feminism is? |
Keyblade
07.15.16 | " but at least the alt-right has borderline no power and are not even mildly accepted by mainstream conservatives (trump is still not mainstream, some would argue he's not even a 'real' conservative)"
lol dude, the poster boy of the alt right is about to be elected as president. it is becoming ridiculously mainstream. like even 5-10 years ago ppl will laugh at u if u were to tell them about what's going on right now |
MillionDead
07.15.16 | I'm really, really startled that Trump has the amount of traction that he does. Says volumes about a sizeable amount of American people, none of it good. |
LambsBread
07.15.16 | The problem with modern day "liberals" (Hillary, Bernie and Obama) is they state a fact and then jump to an illogical/absurd solution.
Racism exists / the past was bad for AA -> we need to extort white people, we need to discriminate against white people in public employment and universities.
Gun violence exists -> we need to imitate the policies of US cities with the highest gun violence.
Global warming exists -> we need to destroy the entire fossil fuel sector that built the world we live in today, and continues to lift people out of poverty and famine all around the world.
All they are doing is bossing people around with the government's monopoly on legal violence... people vote for them to boss people around, not to build a better nation, whether they get that or not. If you use force, you will eventually have someone use it back... our elections are just auctions of people selling each other's shit.
Obama/Hillary supporters basically have no knowledge or care of what a law actually is, specifically the fact that it is enforced by violent force (and thus should not be used frivolously or "just to do something"). They also don't know or care that they are quite literally selling the future generation down the drain to buy votes today.
These are the reasons why I support Trump. He was my last pick of the Republican candidates because he is quite authoritarian (still not as bad as hillary), but now he's grown on me and I really think a lot of good will come simply from having an anti-establishment candidate. |
MillionDead
07.15.16 | I was going to say your viewpoint was fair until you called Trump "anti-establishment". lol |
LambsBread
07.15.16 | "I'm really, really startled that Trump has the amount of traction that he does. Says volumes about a sizeable amount of American people, none of it good."
Which European/Australian-country-that-US-saved-in-1942 are you from? |
MillionDead
07.15.16 | I'm literally from Mississippi. |
Cryptkeeper
07.15.16 | 'CryptKeeper, I gotta ask: Do you actually know what third-wave feminism is?'
I'm gonna put 500$ on redundant |
LambsBread
07.15.16 | "That's stupid, but a lot of the issues brought up are real and the conversation that it starts is really necessary."
It is completely counter-productive to whatever cause you think you support, if you constantly lie about the issue. BLM gets attention just because it pisses people off. It hasn't really accomplished anything. Pissing people off and getting famous is not a noteworthy goal. They have not improved race relations or enlightened anyone. They've simply lied about many of the trials, which pisses people off who actually pay attention, while getting superficial support from superficially informed people.
They've started a giant bicker fest. They have not started a meaningful dialogue, at all. You can't have a meaningful dialogue with people who can't admit to basic/obvious facts. The movement is incredibly pedantic, people only support it because they are so aggressive in shaming people and miscalling them racist if you don't. It's a terribly misguided movement, it needs to stop and be rebuilt by people who actually have a clue. |
Sinternet
07.15.16 | i'm gonna put 500 freedom units on answer the goddamn question |
Cryptkeeper
07.15.16 | 'Gun violence exists -> we need to imitate the policies of US cities with the highest gun violence.'
Let's be real tho, there is no sane argument for allowing anything more dangerous than a handgun or bolt-action hunting rifle. |
Cryptkeeper
07.15.16 | I do believe the American system is highly racist, but BLM just being counter-productive. I do not believe there is any relevant form of misogyny however.
Anyone who brings up the wage-gap should be euthanized. |
Sinternet
07.15.16 | it's fine to raise awareness as Long As it doesn't AfFECT me right guise |
Trebor.
07.15.16 | lol wtf dude, there are a lot of people who won't vote for Clinton because she's a woman, even my fucking dad admitted that to me |
Sinternet
07.15.16 | wage-gap is real bro |
LambsBread
07.15.16 | I mean I see how you would be surprised Trump actually got the nomination, but I really don't see how Hillary is not way worse. She's the epitome of a phony corrupt US politician. Benghazi showed she was horrendously incompetent at best, and a shameful liar who sacrificed four innocent American lives for votes at worst. It's mind boggling anyone supports her, I can at least get Trump's anti-establishment appeal. |
SgtShock
07.15.16 | Third wave feminism introduced a lot of fresh perspectives in the field. Saying it's redundant is off-base. It also constitutes a wide variety of conflicting viewpoints. You shouldn't conflate third wave with whatever group you're trying to refer to here. |
MillionDead
07.15.16 | Or maybe black people are just tired of being bullied by the justice system, particularly cops on the street? Acting as if everyone in the BLM movement is as you describe is like acting like every Christian is like the ones at Westboro Baptist. Same leap. |
Sinternet
07.15.16 | it's ok bro it's obviously redundant because i'm too dumb to admit i don't know what i'm talking about and just parrotting right-wing bs |
Trebor.
07.15.16 | Bro, what if she's on her period and she gets PMS and nukes the world? IT could happen bro |
MillionDead
07.15.16 | Oh, and Trump and Hilary both suck. As far as I'm concerned, they're the same thing in different packaging. It's like a choice between eating shit or some old, chewed up Juicy Fruit from the bottom of a dudes Crocs. |
zakalwe
07.15.16 | Just a question here.
Has any individual here been racially abused, subjected to hateful prejudice, 'gay bashed' been a victim that has felt a need to report something as a criminal matter? Has it happened?
During the Bosnian war there were an influx of refugees into the South East of England.
I was mistakenly called a 'kosovan cunt' and told to "fuck off back home" and I pissed myself laughing. I did see the odd fight I spose.
I've witnessed someone being stabbed and called a "paki cunt" but that is it in nearly 40yrs.
Things are better now than they've ever been in the UK. Don't know about the US but I'm sure hysteria abounds on matters rarely reported. |
Trebor.
07.15.16 | "I live in the South west of america and have mostly Mexican friends, there's no racism here or sexism that I've experienced. Am I doubting there is a racist or sexist? No, but they don't speak for the majority of America and they're much more rare than people act like they are."
idk dude, people tend to live in bubbles, you probably tend to associate with a certain group of people that's not necessarily representative of the national average
For example 95% of my friends are atheist, but that in no way accurately represents the national average |
Sinternet
07.15.16 | 'Things are better now than they've ever been in the UK.'
lol zak u off ur pills or something |
LambsBread
07.15.16 | Trebors dad is dumb, therefore so are 300 million people unrelated to trebor |
Cryptkeeper
07.15.16 | 'it's ok bro it's obviously redundant because i'm too dumb to admit i don't know what i'm talking about and just parrotting right-wing bs'
Tfw you are a socialist but become right-wing the moment you critisize third-wave feminism. Equality under law, equality in working conditions, equality in social interactions. #OPPRESSED |
Trebor.
07.15.16 | what's scary is that my dad is not dumb, but he's a straight white male over the age of 50 and a lot of them were brought up to believe a certain way that is definitely still the norm |
zakalwe
07.15.16 | They are dude, the media is a farce and has a lot to answer for. |
Cryptkeeper
07.15.16 | 'Trebors dad is dumb, therefore so are 300 million people unrelated to trebor'
Just saying that I've never heard anyone around here even allude to that statement. And he says he knows a lot of people who feel that way. Seems like enough of a difference to make a hyperbolic statement.
Or is everyone on this site just severly autistic? |
Trebor.
07.15.16 | I'm not saying Americans are much dumber than most western civilizations, I'm saying the average person in most nations is well, average, AKA not very smart and behind the times |
LambsBread
07.15.16 | "Let's be real tho, there is no sane argument for allowing anything more dangerous than a handgun or bolt-action hunting rifle."
How about the fact that America is on the verge of nation wide riots? |
Trebor.
07.15.16 | "Just saying that I've never heard anyone around here even allude to that statement. And he says he knows a lot of people who feel that way. Seems like enough of a difference to make a hyperbolic statement."
see here's the thing with most racists and mysoginists, they don't go around yelling "I hate black people!" or "I hate women!" They keep that shit inside and then they vote |
Cryptkeeper
07.15.16 | 'Has any individual here been racially abused, subjected to hateful prejudice, 'gay bashed' been a victim that has felt a need to report something as a criminal matter? Has it happened?'
A gay friend of mine has repeatedly been called several homophobic slurs and definitely learned to make sure he doesn't go out late by himself. |
Trebor.
07.15.16 | "Being trans is odd though. If you're born as a man and you feel like a woman and get the surgery (other way around too) I 100% support that and think it's a daring move seeing how social interaction gets weird (other way around too). Acting like a woman but refusing to have a surgery is just fucking weird and seems to me to just be a extreme attempt to get attention, gender-fluid people should visit a shrink and otherkin should be shot.
Otherwise I can't really remember any problems the SJWs/third wave feminists have brought up."
Cryptkeeper this is one of the best comments I've ever seen on the internet"
holy shit you're a fucking moron. I'm trying to be civil and nice or whatever itt but goddamn dude you need to read some books or something |
Cryptkeeper
07.15.16 | 'How about the fact that America is on the verge of nation wide riots?'
Seems to me like those riots would be way less dangerous if you guys didn't have >300 million guns lying around |
Cryptkeeper
07.15.16 | 'holy shit you're a fucking moron. I'm trying to be civil and nice or whatever itt but goddamn dude you need to read some books or something'
Give a rebuttal in any other way than 'there are some trans people who don't undergo surgery because of possible dangers due to whatever medical problems'
Seems to me that being born into the wrong biological gender would be enough of a motivation to get that surgery. You'd finally feel freed of those shackles you've felt your entire life and actually feel like yourself. |
Typhoon24
07.15.16 | Racism exists / the past was bad for AA -> we need to extort white people, we need to discriminate against white people in public employment and universities.
considering how underrepresented latinos and blacks are in high paying fields and good universities though, something had to be done. like at my law school, there were 4 other black guys in the entire entering class out of 300.
Gun violence exists -> we need to imitate the policies of US cities with the highest gun violence.
grew up in a house with a family that loves and uses guns. not one of em thinks you need anything more than a shotgun to protect your family or kill an animal for fun.
Global warming exists -> we need to destroy the entire fossil fuel sector that built the world we live in today, and continues to lift people out of poverty and famine all around the world.
If we can move on to more sustainable energy sources and build our infrastructure around those (or at least invest in them more, instead of giving coal companies more tax breaks and political clout), I don't think anyone would mind getting rid of fossil fuel industries in this country. |
LambsBread
07.15.16 | They aren't "lying around" but nice loaded wording where you beg the question.
Also, consider that the US saved Europe from tyranny less than a century ago. Disarming your population is not a good idea, 20th century history (AKA the lives of our parents and grandparents) isn't Scientology. |
Cryptkeeper
07.15.16 | You are seriously using Hitler as a reason to keep guns.
What the actual fuck. |
Cryptkeeper
07.15.16 | 'They aren't "lying around" but nice loaded wording where you beg the question.'
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperbole
|
Cryptkeeper
07.15.16 | 'wage-gap is real bro'
They took the total amount of money earned by both working men and women.
Not per hour.
Not based on occupation.
Not based on intricacy of work.
Not based on education.
Kill yourself. |
Keyblade
07.15.16 | "Has any individual here been racially abused, subjected to hateful prejudice, 'gay bashed' been a victim that has felt a need to report something as a criminal matter? Has it happened?"
idk why u seem so incredulous that this can happen. but yea ive been called all sorts of ish. been fucked about by cops, spend an eternity at airports cuz i got a muslim-ish name, when i apply for jobs apparently i have to contend with the fact that i have at least half as much of a chance as a white person with identical qualifications etc etc. how do i report it when it's embedded in society? shit, if i reported it i'd prolly have some trump supporter on the line telling me to stop playing the victim and some bs about affirmative action and bootstraps |
Cryptkeeper
07.15.16 | They were several cases here in the Netherlands where Turkish and Marrocan youth applied to universities, were declined, then sent the exact same letter with changed name and adress and were invited for a meeting.
Yeah racism exists still. |
TVC15
07.15.16 | Damn the thread's back on topic |
LambsBread
07.15.16 | @typhoon
"considering how underrepresented latinos and blacks are in high paying fields and good universities though, something had to be done."
That isn't a logical argument. Discrimination isn't justified simply because one group has it bad. Not when you can help AA on your own, with charity etc., instead you lazily support government discrimination of others as a lazy copout.
I don't care what your family thinks about guns. I've had my life and my family's life threatened and had to sit up at night with an AR. I'm not giving up my right to be defended against the common threat of gangs because of your irrational fear of a weapon that in no way increases the ability or likelihood of unjustified violence.
If you want to invest in other industries, go ahead, you have your own money. Stop forcing people to spend their money on things they don't want to spend it on, when you can easily accomplish your goal without the government.... this is exactly what I mean by liberals having no care for the violent force involved in governments. |
Deez
07.15.16 | Not this again |
MillionDead
07.15.16 | "Because rape culture doesn't exist." Sorry, but I think the fact that about 1 in 4 girls on a college campus can expect to be sexually assaulted may prove that it still does.
"Has any individual here been racially abused, subjected to hateful prejudice, 'gay bashed' been a victim that has felt a need to report something as a criminal matter? Has it happened?"
When I was younger in my hometown, I was accosted by a cop for standing while black one time. Peers assumed "black" things about you in casual conversation. I've had numerous slurs thrown at me from cowards in passing cars and in highschool. I've had a few friends and a girlfriend who I could never hang out with because their parents were racist. And I've had friends that have been through worse with the police. Had gay friends that got shit for being gay, etc. People are shitty. |
LambsBread
07.15.16 | "You are seriously using Hitler as a reason to keep guns.
What the actual fuck."
Try making an actual argument instead of being reductive and feigning outrage.
There were numerous examples of genocide after gun-control in the 20th century. Tyranny is a real thing, it is a never-ending threat in our system of democracy, despite what a lot of spoiled first world yuppies think, who had the world literally built for them by others resisting tyranny within LIVING MEMORY. |
Typhoon24
07.15.16 | charity isn't gonna solve the underrepresentation of minorities. hell Affirmative Action is barely working, but it's better than anything else.
And isn't it the government's responsibility to take care of the environment? people will never do shit unless they were taxed to, and there aren't enough rich philanthropists out there to fix this country without the gov |
TheSonomaDude
07.15.16 | nO |
Cryptkeeper
07.15.16 | '1 in 4 girls on a college campus can expect to be sexually assaulted may prove that it still does.'
Considering these campusses are a hotbed of feminist activity and their tendency to lie I'd rather take actual police report.
Also rape is not rape when both are intoxicated. You can't claim women aren't at fault when they have sex drunk and free them of any responsibility but expect men to act responisble themselves.
I've had sex with a partner several times when both of us are high, am I supposed to refuse her when she makes sexual advances? |
Cryptkeeper
07.15.16 | 'There were numerous examples of genocide after gun-control in the 20th century. Tyranny is a real thing, it is a never-ending threat in our system of democracy, despite what a lot of spoiled first world yuppies think, who had the world literally built for them by others resisting tyranny within LIVING MEMORY.'
Good thing the American populace has managed to stop police brutality, KKK assaults and Black Panther crimes right? |
LambsBread
07.15.16 | @typhoon You are just blatantly ignoring the rights of white people by focusing solely on the problems of black people. It's really rich when liberals rant about racism... there would be far less racism if they would stop pinning black vs white against each other with the government like AA.
Obama/Hillary's "solutions" usually just push dirt under the rug and create other problems. Then they solve these problems they just created with solutions that create more and more problems. AA ostensibly helps black people by giving them access to more jobs, yet it also clearly hurts black people by creating resentment towards blacks among whites who just got discriminated against.
The philosophy/idea is a joke, it's not a real attempt to solve a problem, it's a politicians way of looking like they are doing something. |
LambsBread
07.15.16 | I don't think you realize the Civil Rights Movement would not have happened if there was gun-control in the US. It's astonishingly incoherent how "liberals" argue that institutional-racist-tyranny was the worst thing in the history of the universe, then two minutes later they ask "why would you ever need a gun? What do you think the US is tyrannical? Insane!" |
Typhoon24
07.15.16 | so, when it comes to affirmative action the options are:
do nothing and (1) hope black people solve their own problems or (2) someone nice comes along and gives them access to education and good jobs. (3) or tell the kids who had their schools close down on them for lack of funding to bootstrap themselves up.
or give the university a chance to holistically look the qualities of an applicant, instead of just test scores, in considering the value of something like diversity in a classroom.
the "terrible" unwanted consequence of all this is white enrollment in the school would go down from 80% to 79% so that black enrollment can finally break double digits. I know it is still discrimination and it's not perfectly fair, but I think the "resentment" you're talking about is overblown. Most white people I talked to about this would be mad if 8 in 10 of the kids in their class looked like them and had (very likely) the same socioeconomic background. |
MillionDead
07.15.16 | Nice fluff articles on conservative websites, Alchemist. And the response "It doesn't happen as much as so and so say it does" is somehow supposed to justify when it does? If it was 1 in 10, it'd still be too often.
Lambs, I've been at school for 3 years now, and I hear about rapes at frat houses every other month or so. And I don't assume that it only happens when I hear about it or even only in frat houses. "Hotbed of feminist activity" You talk about it like it's heroin dealing or something. lol God forbid our sons and daughters have the same opportunities. God forbid women want a level playing field in the real world. I agree that some people take it way too far and twist into something it isn't, but that doesn't mean textbook feminism is a bad thing in itself. Also, I agree that drunk girls that consent to fucking other drunk dudes just need to accept the responsibility for their actions. I don't drink, and I think it's irresponsible for anyone to get too drunk know what's going on around them. But that doesn't mean that whatever some significantly more able individual does to them after the fact is fair game. Dragging half-passed out chicks to your dorm is rape. Slipping roofies to get a chick in your bed is rape. It happens too much.
Also, Typhoon is right. Like seriously, the thing about affirmitative action and opportunity enrollment at schools is that even if a white guy loses a space to a minority, there should be a place for him somewhere else. Besides, no one is "owed" the spot in the first place. |
Sinternet
07.15.16 | 'I'd like to know which ones. Because rape culture doesn't exist'
yes it does http://www.wavaw.ca/what-is-rape-culture/
'the wage-gap doesn't exist (yet everyday it's brought up like third-wave feminism wants to lose even more credibility)'
equal pay and wage gap are too completetly different things btw
http://www.wageproject.org/files/why.php
http://www.aauw.org/research/the-simple-truth-about-the-gender-pay-gap/
'whore-shaming might be a problem there, seeing as how America consistently paces about 2 decades behind the rest of the developed world, but past the 'owie my feelings are hurt' is there any argument here?'
firstly I don't particularly think america is that backward, it just suffers from different issues than other developed countries
secondly while i don't think it's the most pressing issue, there's still a clear double standard in the expectations and depictions of male and female sexuality
this is a pretty good piece about it https://finallyfeminism101.wordpress.com/2010/04/04/what-is-slut-shaming/
|
MillionDead
07.15.16 | [2] |
SgtShock
07.15.16 | @cryptkeeper: The wage gap is not a phenomenon exclusive to third wave feminism. It's been mentioned since way before third-wave's 1990's origins. Also, third wave paved the way for a lot of fascinating concepts. I find third-wave approaches like Judith Butler's breakdown of the social construction of sex (yes, sex -- not just gender) an amazing application of post structuralist perspectives. Academic works like hers really paved the way for the trans movement. Third wave also encouraged a reflexive look on feminism and who it was really helping. It called to attention the fact that black women have often been playing second fiddle to white women in these movements. Lastly, as I said before, third wave has a lot of conflicting viewpoints, like sex-positive and sex-negative debates for instance.
I'm calling you out, Cryptkeeper. You put third-wave just to make yourself sound smart. Don't confuse an entire paradigm with what a bunch of people on the Internet are parroting. |
Sinternet
07.15.16 | get learned |
Keyblade
07.15.16 | Sgt on that birdman steez. "I'm pullin up on YOU nigga" |
MillionDead
07.15.16 | lmao |
Friday13th
07.15.16 | ^ SgtShock, I see we won't find any common ground at all to debate. The "social construction of sex" is exactly the sort of third wave feminist absurdities that deserve no more than a snicker and constant ridicule. Post modern/deconstruction anything is the most obvious, self-refuting far left nonsense out there. What's funny is reading about academics who purposefully wrote parodies of postmodern theories and got published by peer review postmodern journals (see Sokal Hoax). But yeah if you can't smell the crazy when science is a social construct, I can't help you, man. |
SgtShock
07.15.16 | @Friday13th: Why are you arguing with me again? Didn't you already condemn all of academia as "university dogma"? I get it, YouTube is a way better source of information. |
Friday13th
07.15.16 | No, obviously not all. Just the social justice ideologies. But what information? Stuff like genetic information? Information is a social construct invented by elites to keep us down. See what I did there. |
Typhoon24
07.15.16 | idk what the heck you two are arguing about anymore |
Sinternet
07.15.16 | tinfoil hats must be in fashion these days |
SgtShock
07.15.16 | @Friday: Yeah man, YouTube is the best. |
LambsBread
07.16.16 | "so, when it comes to affirmative action the options are:
do nothing and (1) hope black people solve their own problems or (2) someone nice comes along and gives them access to education and good jobs. (3) or tell the kids who had their schools close down on them for lack of funding to bootstrap themselves up.
or give the university a chance to holistically look the qualities of an applicant, instead of just test scores, in considering the value of something like diversity in a classroom.
the "terrible" unwanted consequence of all this is white enrollment in the school would go down from 80% to 79% so that black enrollment can finally break double digits. I know it is still discrimination and it's not perfectly fair, but I think the "resentment" you're talking about is overblown. Most white people I talked to about this would be mad if 8 in 10 of the kids in their class looked like them and had (very likely) the same socioeconomic background."
So much wrong/illogical here it's hard to break down. First you create a false dichotomy, or actually a false trichotomy.
Then you assume because your bad ideas won't work, nothing can possibly solve the problem.
Then you do some sort of bullshit equation where you say only 1% of white people needs to be discriminated against to help 10% of black people.
Then you ignore that AA is very controversial, and you anecdotally based approval for a policy that affects 300 million people based on "some people i've talked to" ... as if your white friends just must be a good indicator of the opinion of 200 million people or so.
There's a lot of things you can do to help African American culture that doesn't discriminate against innocent people, and doesn't create resentment towards African Americans.
-Stop illegal immigration, give black people their jobs back that were taken by illegal aliens.
-cut business taxes to spur investment and lower unemployment.
-Repeal discrimination laws applying to private institutions and businesses so AA can create "black only" universities that were successful even during segregation.
-Change gun laws, especially concealed carry laws, to allow AA to defend themselves. Stop letting criminals control black cities by disarming non-criminals. You can't ever improve a city until you stop crime. 911 is a joke. Democrat solutions are a joke.
There's a lot that can be done. Affirmative Action is the laziest and crudest solution anyone could have dreamed up. The worst part is how it's supported by many people who haven't given a single fuck about AA society, they never do anything in their personal lives to improve the situation, but they pat themselves on the back for lazily supporting a crude policy. |
LambsBread
07.16.16 | @MillionDead I haven't even mentioned feminism, what are you talking about? I don't disagree with most of third wave feminism, but the wage gap is bullshit. Rape culture exists but yeah it is sensationalized because they extend the definition of rape to a ridiculous degree (IE if girl is drunk, it's rape automatically) in many studies/infographics. |
MillionDead
07.16.16 | Totally my mistake. I wrongly thought that one of Cryptkeeper's comments was yours.
I'm not exactly in a position to contradict all your points, but illegals aren't hurting anyone. Our crops honestly depend on them and they HELP the economy. I really don't think that your average black American wants the jobs where illegals work underpaid in the blistering sun for 10 hours and the other menial positions they actually fill. I'm pretty sure most who ever complain about them taking jobs doesn't actually want the jobs they have. They'd honestly probably have it if they wanted it. The fact that droves of illegals are so eager to do things like pick crops, clean, and bus tables makes the services they provide more affordable for the population at large. Plus, it'd be ridiculously hard to stop immigration, or even worse, deport them. Like, deporting 11 million people is pretty literally impossible. It'd all be a waste of money.
And I think black people suffering in black areas has a lot more to do with ghettoization and systemic oppression than them not being able to shoot back. Edit: Black areas are more likely to be poor and street crime is often a direct result of poverty. Where there is poverty there will always be crime, no matter who has guns and who doesn't.
Plus, minorities are largely discriminated against in the business world as well as American society at large. People will give less consideration to an ethnic name on a resume. Affirmative Action is a necessary push to level the playing field in a in an unbalanced game where little else is being done at a legislative or social level. Also, if a white guy loses a spot to a white guy its tough luck, but if he loses it to a dark person its discrimination? |
zakalwe
07.16.16 | If it's down to 'positive discrimination' it's a farce. |
Keyblade
07.16.16 | don't see u condemning the actual discrimination that it's borne from tho. dudes only have an issue when it's a white person being discriminated against |
SgtShock
07.16.16 | When I apply for a job or a degree program as a white guy, it's easy for me to forget about all of the help I got along the way. I've been told since I was a kid that I'm smart and I'll go to college. Even with my college-educated parents divorced, they both managed to be there for me when I needed them. My great grandparents hard funded me to get into school, even when I didn't apply for as many scholarships as I could have. People who look and talk like me are the movers and the shakers -- either in politics or even in fictional representations like the media. As discussed in Unequal Childhoods, being raised in a household that doesn't use authoritarian parenting has taught me how to confront and argue through bureaucratic tape. That's a lot of help from society and my family's past. It's very flattering for me to think I got where I am solely on my own grit or gusto, but the reality is I've had a pretty sweet deal and I have no problem admitting it. Of course, this line of thinking is antithesis to the standard "BUILD YOUR OWN DESTINY - WORK HARD AND YOU WILL PROSPER" American Dream. The sad truth is most people die in the same social class they were born in. |
Cryptkeeper
07.16.16 | ''I'd like to know which ones. Because rape culture doesn't exist'
yes it does http://www.wavaw.ca/what-is-rape-culture/'
'In her book she defines rape culture as a complex set of beliefs that encourage male sexual aggression and supports violence against women. It is a society where violence is seen as sexy and sexuality as violent.'
Boy do I love masturbating to women who are being abused. I love to actually choke women when I have sex dude, and I'm sure like 90% of the male population enjoys that as well.
'Rape culture includes jokes, TV, music, advertising, legal jargon, laws, words and imagery, that make violence against women and sexual coercion seem so normal that people believe that rape is inevitable.'
I only now realise that by making nazi jokes I am actually making militant white supremacists out of the people in my social group.
Oh wait it's only wrong to joke about rape because rape happens everytime you make a joke about it.
When your ideology tells you that jokes about that certain ideology is wrong, either leave it or kill yourself and do the world a favour.
'Rape culture is…
…the existence of “Keep Calm and Rape A Lot” t-shirts. They really, seriously exist.
…the media’s constant glossing-over of sexual assault with euphemistic language: “inappropriate behaviour,” “sexual misconduct,” and even plain old “having sex.”
…Facebook’s refusal to pull sadistically graphic images of violence against women (while deeming photos of breastfeeding moms to be objectionable)!
…a beauty website that calls toddlers “effing hot” – even the preschool set can’t escape objectification!
…a magazine editor’s blasé admission that “the women we feature in the magazine are ornamental” and “objectified.”
…major news outlets waxing sympathetic about how two teen rapists’ “promising” lives will be destroyed by a youthful mistake, without once mentioning how the rape might affect the survivor.
…kids who call losing a sports game “getting totally raped.”
…a pizza marketing campaign that makes a joke out of rape
…a subculture of self-proclaimed “ratters” who hack into women’s computers and steal their photos.
…college women being instructed to vomit or urinate on demand to protect themselves against rape.
…10,000 untested rape kits collecting dust on a shelf somewhere.'
GIVE ME AN S
GIVE ME A T
GIVE ME AN R
GIVE ME AN A
GIVE ME A W
GIVE ME AN M
GIVE ME AN A
GIVE ME A N |
Friday13th
07.16.16 | @Sgt I totally agree with your explanation of family, but it has nothing to do with negating the American Dream. A caring, functioning family has proven to be the single greatest indicator of wealth. Family privilege is greater than race privilege. What you're showing Sgt is that there are so many factors involved in people's success that it's ridiculous to single one out and claim problems have to do with one with no evidence.
Doing the best with whatever privilege you have is the only way we keep from wasting time tallying privilege points and pulling others down. A poor person who works hard will likely go up as long as laws protect them. A rich person who works hard and invests will go up too and will help a large number of people. Wealth is not like a game of monopoly, you can create wealth through technology and increased trade. The players won't be equally rich, but society will increase in real wealth though not necessarily comparative wealth. I don't know how you could deny that.
Yeah the American Dream is a total myth. That's why the U.S. has been the most powerful country for years. |
Cryptkeeper
07.16.16 | 'http://www.wageproject.org/files/why.php
http://www.aauw.org/research/the-simple-truth-about-the-gender-pay-gap/'
Still no distinction in level of education or occupation.
Gj dude you fucking swung and missed so bad you actually killed the catcher |
smaugman
07.16.16 | I get cancer and aids from reading sinternet's bs |
smaugman
07.16.16 | And raped!! ;)) |
barcafan21
07.16.16 | one third of college dudes would rape a girl if no one found out about it, so yeah, a lot of people don't know how fucking terrible rape is
http://thinkprogress.org/health/2015/01/11/3610327/college-men-forcible-sex-study/ |
Friday13th
07.16.16 | Rapists go to jail and get publicly shamed for the rest of their lives. It's a hard crime to prove sometimes, but a natural barrier to quick justice doesn't make rape culture. |
smaugman
07.16.16 | If there's a place that got a rape culture, it's arabian countries |
Friday13th
07.16.16 | ^which liberals want to import wholesale |
smaugman
07.16.16 | Middle eastern refugee kids come to sweden and germany, harass and violate, police responds by trying to get trending twitter hashtags and giving out bracelets saying "dont molest" lmao |
Keyblade
07.16.16 | arabian |
Cryptkeeper
07.16.16 | 'And raped!! ;))'
Well now a woman got raped I hope you are proud of yourself you enabling cis white male opressive bigot pig rapist |
Sinternet
07.16.16 | crypt you didn't actually rebutt any of my points
and how is something a strawman if it actually happens
you're dumb af kid
you are not a socialist |
Sinternet
07.16.16 | 'Boy do I love masturbating to women who are being abused. I love to actually choke women when I have sex dude, and I'm sure like 90% of the male population enjoys that as well.'
#NotAllMen |
Cryptkeeper
07.16.16 | Because some people are dicks rape culture is real #YesAllMen |
Cryptkeeper
07.16.16 | Because some people joke about rape, rape culture is real #CensorThePeopleIDon'tLike |
Cryptkeeper
07.16.16 | Because latino women are less likely to have an education and are paid less because of lack of said education wage gap is real #KillAllMen |
smaugman
07.16.16 | According to sinternet and other sjws, bdsm should be labelled rape porn |
Sinternet
07.16.16 | that seems pretty plausible to me |
zakalwe
07.16.16 | Give it 20yrs violent predatory rape will be a sexual preference, there will be a flag and everything. |
Cryptkeeper
07.16.16 | You have a discussion with me and I link shitty sources and call me out on it, you're #dumb also I decided you're not supporting the ideology you preach #TrumpLover |
Cryptkeeper
07.16.16 | 'Give it 20yrs violent predatory rape will be a sexual preference, there will be a flag and everything.'
Yeah pretty much what I do, sex is violent amirite?
If only someone had told me rape is bad, I wouldn't have become a rapist/ |
Sinternet
07.16.16 | 'According to sinternet and other sjws, bdsm should be labelled rape porn'
yeah no i've never heard this
i've heard of wanting to make the porn industry safer for women
i've heard of making sure bdsm communities are friendly places in which members are respected
but of course i'm attacking strawmen here aren't i?
|
Sinternet
07.16.16 | 'You have a discussion with me and I link shitty sources and call me out on it, you're #dumb also I decided you're not supporting the ideology you preach #TrumpLover'
considering feminism is a part of the socialist ideology then you're not socialist
i've linked pretty good sources, would you like to show me some to support your points?
sorry you're so defensive when it comes to recognising problems in society which according to you, you have no involvement in |
Cryptkeeper
07.16.16 | I sure am 200% for equality, thing is, feminism has changed to accomodate women to get more advantages when men and women are pretty much equal in all respects |
Sinternet
07.16.16 | no it hasn't lol |
Sinternet
07.16.16 | equal under the law? yes
equal in society? no |
Cryptkeeper
07.16.16 | Again, I've refuted the wage gap bullshit, feminists can't even agree on a definition of rape culture which is just fucking fallacy upon fallacy upon fallacy.
Which other problems are we dealing with? |
Cryptkeeper
07.16.16 | 'equal in society? no'
Lol |
MillionDead
07.16.16 | I don't think you know what a Straw Man actually is, Crypt... You're the one making Straw Mans by misrepresenting what he's saying. He's not misrepresenting your point. He's not saying that your "arguments" means you hate women. He's saying rape culture is real, which it still is as long as many people rape people and their buddies don't say anything. Or women get disproportionally. objectified in media the way they do constantly. Etc. There are facets in our society that contribute to apathy or silence about local and widespread mistreatment of women on many levels. And that is bad.
The fact that you think women are perfectly equal in society demonstrates that you're profoundly out of touch with the other half of your own species.
@Friday: The American Dream is in fact a myth. As said before, most will die in the same class they're born in. It's hard to bootstrap yourself up the path to success with few to no roads to walk. Wealth doesn't trickle down in any tangible way. Poor people can and will work themselves to nothing and still barely get by. There are plenty of impoverished people who have tight family units. |
zakalwe
07.16.16 | I like nothing more than taking the wife out for a nice meal, possible a bottle of red and a nice stroll afterwards along the river. A shared joke whilst hands are held, and a knowing smile that reinforces the bond of love.
Then it's home for a good old fisting and full on anal prolapse. |
Cryptkeeper
07.16.16 | 'I don't think you know what a Straw Man actually is, Crypt... You're the one making Straw Mans by misrepresenting what he's saying. He's not misrepresenting your point. He's not saying that your "arguments" means you hate women.'
Got the wrong translation, the translation of strawman in Dutch is used here to describe a false problem only because of one example. It's hard to describe but I'm sure you'll get what I mean.
You know the 'this muslim commited an act of terrorism therefor all muslims are terrorists' |
Cryptkeeper
07.16.16 | '@Friday: The American Dream is in fact a myth. As said before, most will die in the same class they're born in. It's hard to bootstrap yourself up the path to success with few to no roads to walk. Wealth doesn't trickle down in any tangible way. Poor people can and will work themselves to nothing and still barely get by. There are plenty of impoverished people who have tight family units.'
American dream has been dead for at least a decade |
Sinternet
07.16.16 | you know i'm not sure we're gonna agree on this so let's just agree to be civil to each other and leave it here |
barcafan21
07.16.16 | milliondead knows whats up |
Cryptkeeper
07.16.16 | 'He's saying rape culture is real, which it still is as long as many people rape people and their buddies don't say anything. Or women get disproportionally. objectified in media the way they do constantly. Etc. There are facets in our society that contribute to apathy or silence about local and widespread mistreatment of women on many levels. And that is bad.'
If women are subject to rape culture because they get raped, what about men who get raped and laughed at? Seems even worse to me. As long as women's magazines and fashion shows keep objectifying themselves I'd not start accusing men of objectifying. Men do it women, men do it to men, women do it to men, women do it to women.
This is not new, nor anything else than the way society rolls, and it's not a rape culture when your feelies get a little hurt. |
Cryptkeeper
07.16.16 | 'you know i'm not sure we're gonna agree on this so let's just agree to be civil to each other and leave it here'
Fuck it, fine |
SgtShock
07.16.16 | To go back to the original thread topic, I think this sums up a great deal of Trump's voterbase:
"But first we have to understand that anger, get inside it. For one thing, it’s an anger that knows no class nor originates in a specific class. Whether we’re talking about the white working class—shorn of union protection, stripped of manufacturing jobs that once provided a modicum of dignity with a paycheck, not to mention the hale-and-hearty camaraderie of the shop floor, they’ve watched as “their” jobs disappeared with the closing of the factory gates. Or the lower middle class, that wide swath of small farmers, independent shopkeepers, independent craft workers—plumbers, electricians, contractors—and small businessmen whose livelihoods have been steadily eroded, as the farm crisis of the 1990s consolidated independent farmers into wage workers for agribusiness, as Walmart put local grocery and other retail stores out of business. Even upper-middle-class men, even those with jobs and pensions and health plans, feel ripped off—by affirmative action programs, immigration, welfare, taxation, and the general sense that they’re being had.
What unites all these groups is not just the fact that they are men. What unites them is their belief in a certain ideal of masculinity. It is not just their livelihoods that are threatened, but their sense of themselves as men. Faludi observed in Stiffed that American men have lost “a useful role in public life, a way of earning a decent and reliable living, appreciation in the home, respectful treatment in the culture.”3 They’re feeling emasculated—humiliated. The promise of economic freedom, of boundless opportunity, of unlimited upward mobility, was what they believed was the terra firma of American masculinity, the ground on which American men have stood for generations. Today, it feels like a carpet being snatched from under their feet." (Kimmel, 2013)
|
Cryptkeeper
07.16.16 | ^They managed to fuck themselves by voting Republican massively year after year in some sort of demographic case of Stockholm Syndrome |
smaugman
07.16.16 | Nice analysis there, einstein |
Cryptkeeper
07.16.16 | It's almost like the Republican party's main goal is to ease taxation on rich people, when the poor still believe the American Dream to be alive and then sneakily make sure the lower classes find getting good educations harder and harder |
MillionDead
07.16.16 | @Crypt: "Even worse" Why? It could only be equal. I don't think you get to determine how the physical and psychological pain of someone forcibly stripping their victim and fucking them against their will is distributed from person to person. The sheer invasion of that. If you could put yourself in that place for one second. "It's not new" doesn't mean hasn't always been disgusting, because it has. And if you think anybody is wrong for being upset about being RAPED or wrong for CARING enough about the next person to speak out against rape and the societal factors that enable it, you are scum.
And yes, women can be guilty of perpetuating rape culture. There are plenty of women who don't realize that they act as if women deserve less. This is only because misogynistic, chauvinistic society put it in their heads, though. You can't grow up in the US without being exposed to it.
To add to Sgt's quote, I don't think the prospects of the American Dream were ever real, or at least as widely accessible as jargon would led people to believe. It's an idealistic ideal that the workings of society don't agree with. Edit: Even if we'd all love it to be true. |
Cryptkeeper
07.16.16 | '"It's not new"'
That quote was talking about objectification, good to see you read like 2 sentences of my comment |
MillionDead
07.16.16 | Everything is really okay, I read your comment. The way you've acted up to this point still makes everything I said in my last post valid. There's objectification that's harmless. Just thinking whoever is hot or even saying it is harmless.
It's when people's, largely women's, bodies get treated like they're property and that they don't belong to them that it's wrong. Or when people treat other people like they owe them something because they want it. Which happens often. And that's still, I repeat, disgusting. That objectification is steadily perpetuated by all types of media to people and from person to person. I don't see why that isn't bad or worth combating in any way we can. I think I'm about done with this arguing, though. |
Sinternet
07.16.16 | i've always loved this sketch that shows the everyday sexism in society
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9fFOelpE_8 |
Friday13th
07.16.16 | @Crypt if your stupid criteria for the "American Dream" working continues to use a segregated class view, then yes you will think it's dead. Unequal outcome that raises up everyone is better than equal outcome that keeps everyone back. Did you know the luxuries the poor have today in the west would be impossible without capitalist-powered technology? Name one tech invention in a socialist country, and I'll name a dozen just in the United States. And our admittedly expensive military protects little western rape capitals like Sweden from being instantly taken over by expansionist aggressors like Russia. America gives more to charity than any other country. Stop your America hating, it's laughable. |
Storm In A Teacup
07.16.16 | Trump and Clinton both should not be nominees of any party. This is disgusting. Congratulations America, I wish I lived in Canada or Switzerland for fucks sake. |
Ryus
07.16.16 | mike pence is one terrible motherfucker |
SgtShock
07.16.16 | @Friday: I see where you're trying to go with this, but you're way off-base. You seem to be confusing The American Dream with whether or not America is successful. The American Dream I am referring to (and I believe other commenters are, as well) is the cultural idea that we live in an age of opportunity, where everyone can create their own destiny and reach self-actualization -- provided they work hard enough. This idea isn't exclusive to the United States, but discourse on this ideology frequently uses the American Dream as an umbrella term. Whether you attribute its formation to influences of Calvinist philosophy, manifest destiny, or consumerism doesn't really matter. What matters is that the American Dream is cultural narrative that promises upward mobility for citizens. Furthermore, it implies an equal playing field for all (which is sadly not the case). It's a mantra we tell ourselves to justify our ambitions and 70 hour work weeks at dead-end jobs. Unfortunately, this upward mobility rarely happens and that leads to individuals feeling disenchanted with society in general. The most important facet of all of this, however, is the sense of entitlement that accompanies this mindset. Hopefully that clears things up a bit. |
smaugman
07.16.16 | I never liked trump nor hillary, but I was leaning towards trump. Now that trump has chosen a fucking crazy christian fuckface im all for hillary |
Ryus
07.16.16 | yeah its not that great of a pick for trump. how does he expect to unify the party by picking an extremely conservative christian |
SgtShock
07.16.16 | I was always under the impression that you should start your political campaign by being more extreme, and gradually become more moderate as the election comes closer. Why does it seem like these candidates are doing this backwards? |
Friday13th
07.16.16 | Reasonable enough, SgtShock. But it is usually used as a slight at capitalism and American success, as Crypt showed. Most jobs aren't meant for upward mobility though. I guess if you take that definition of "American dream" and include Maslow's ever elusive "self-actualization" then yeah. But it wouldn't be dead since it never existed anywhere. If you raise expectations too high, you'll come short.
In terms of education, upward mobility in a well paying job is very possible to anyone. It's just the less taken path. Why doesn't everyone just go into STEM fields which give scholarships like crazy especially to minorities? Oh, because they're "following their dreams." If you think self actualization comes from following your dreams, fine. Don't complain when no one hands you a big check for playing by your own rules. |
SgtShock
07.16.16 | I see where you're coming from, but feeling screwed by the system isn't an experience that exclusively belongs to Arts and Music majors. I feel like where you and I drift apart is on the issue of agency. For you, this is all a matter of choice. People are in a rough place are there for a reason: Their own poor decisions. For me, I really don't think that's the case. If things were as level and obvious as you're making them, then these issues would resolve themselves. Not everyone has the same opportunities, and inequalities related to race/gender/class have a lot to do with that. |
LepreCon
07.16.16 | The way I see it, with the two worst (presumptive) nominees from either major party I've ever seen, America done fucked up. I also can't understand why Bernie supporters would throw in behind Gary Johnson; Libertarians are pretty much conservatives who are okay with legalizing marijuana. Jill Stein and the Greens are cool but they've no chance to get even close to the support they need. |
MillionDead
07.17.16 | Yeah, its an honest to goodness shit show. Not excited about the way this turns out even one little bit. |
SgtShock
07.17.16 | I don't get the bern supporters swapping to the libertarian party, either. I mean I guess they both pull from similar demographics? Maybe? They're just such different viewpoints. Especially considering taxes, gun control, government regulation, etc. I guess the legalization of marijuana is the drawing point. Or maybe just online culture's fascination with libertarian perspectives is just rubbing off on the far left. |
Typhoon24
07.17.16 | both are gentle souls, want pot legalized, dont seem stupid, and are stars in their home states |
SgtShock
07.17.16 | Typhoon raises a good point. I'm focusing too much on policies here, neglecting the fact that candidates can seem attractive to voters for other reasons. |
MillionDead
07.17.16 | Yeah, I think people want more people that feel like Bernie. I don't blame 'em, either. |
LambsBread
07.19.16 | @Milliondead you have a complete misunderstanding of economics. If you stop letting people work for illegal wages, more legal jobs open up. It has nothing to do with "taking the farm jobs that no one wants to do". The African American unemployment rate is low because businesses don't structure themselves to have to hire legal labor, because they get dirt cheap labor from illegal aliens.
I have no patience for this argument. "hey everyone, lets ignore our immigration laws, yeah there's no problem with laws being selectively enforced right? Oh and you know how the black unemployment rate is like 50% for teenagers... well they wouldn't benefit from 20 million less people in the unskilled labor market... trust me."
Sorry man but you are being absolutely absurd, this is nothing but democratic talking-point PC nonsense that isn't based in reality in the slightest. |
LambsBread
07.19.16 | People really still like Bernie?
The dude who got millions of dollars from poor people, only to sell out and endorse the most corrupt politician, who had more to do with the nightmarish state of US inner cities and mass incarceration, more than any other politician...
If you still are supporting Bernie at this point, you simply haven't been paying attention at all. He played people like a fiddle. It shows that the socialist philosophy attracts demagogues and people who don't understand the basics of law, history or economics. |
LambsBread
07.19.16 | Anyone who says the American Dream is dead has no idea what they are talking about. It has never been easier to become rich in any country throughout the history of the world. Does this mean that if you work 70 hours a week you are going to become a millionare? NO! But if you save money, live frugally, use your brain, make sacrifices and work your ass off your entire life you can create a better life for your kids and a retirement you can enjoy immensely.
Only in the US are people so spoiled they actually think they deserve to go from rags to riches by staying at the register of Walmart their entire life. These European countries with their vast welfare systems are unsustainable. They wouldn't even exist today if the US didn't save them in the 1940s... that's what happens when you spend 0 on national defense and 90 percent of your budget on handouts. |
TheSonomaDude
07.19.16 | Bernie rules because weed and music. That's all that fucking matters. Fuck that other bullshit. Bring him back goddamnit. |
ArsMoriendi
07.19.16 | Holy shit that guy from Duck Dynasty was asked to speak at the Republican Convention
...I don't even know anymore |
LambsBread
07.19.16 | The sad part is he just recently came out as pro-legalization when he saw it was popular. Before that he never mentioned legalization throughout his 30 year career. He's a fucking fraud. |
LambsBread
07.19.16 | @Ars
Republicans get multi-millionaire entrepreneurs to speak at conventions.
Democrats shamelessly drag on the mother of proven attempted murderer Mike Brown - they lie about police and stand on the graves of people to gain political points.
Take your pick.
Thinking every single person in the country needs to endorse your lifestyle/sexuality is naive. |
Spacesh1p
07.19.16 | Lambs I'm on board with you here bro, Bernie is a joke. |
L4titudes
07.19.16 | Gary Johnson |
ArsMoriendi
07.19.16 | "Democrats shamelessly drag on the mother of proven attempted murderer Mike Brown - they lie about police and stand on the graves of people to gain political points."
I mean the Republicans brought up the mother of a Benghazi victim. I'd say that's about the same level of shameless. |
LambsBread
07.19.16 | The Republicans brought up the mother of an actual victim, created by actual government incompetence/evil, of one single person who is virtually the only other candidate in the election.
The Democrats pretended a proven-attempted-murderer and violent thief was a victim. They then used a grieving mother to try to give a facade of credence to their blatant lies by using her as an emotional diversion to ignore sworn witness testimony, forensic evidence and the entire trial itself.
Yeah, the Republican Party is very far from perfect, but the modern Democrats ... there's no word I can use to criticize them without subjecting myself to their plan, their attack on the principles of free speech: whereby simply noting the bad behavior of others is turned into YOU becoming the bad person for saying anything negative.
Here's a great example of that, which is well explained:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHIQtxLCgrM
The Democrats only power comes from shame and turning people against each other: blaming the rich, blaming the white race, blaming the cops, blaming men, blaming the military, it all has superficial truth but it's crudeness amounts to an attack on innocent people. If you don't attack innocent people (EG cops) in this way, you are a (EG) racist. |
Conmaniac
07.19.16 | lambs' other list is so relevant rn...can I get untagged from this list plz? |
Parallels
07.19.16 | Hands down Trump/Pence.
I've vote Jill instead but I'd rather my vote be put against making sure Hillary does not get office. All the other candidates I've seen are just embarassing imo. |
SgtShock
07.19.16 | "Anyone who says the American Dream is dead has no idea what they are talking about. It has never been easier to become rich in any country throughout the history of the world. Does this mean that if you work 70 hours a week you are going to become a millionare? NO! But if you save money, live frugally, use your brain, make sacrifices and work your ass off your entire life you can create a better life for your kids and a retirement you can enjoy immensely."
Source? |
BlacKapes
07.19.16 | gary johnson though he's moderate as fuck and im an ancap but whatever, step in the right direction i guess
anyway fuck trump and fuck clinton really |
LambsBread
07.19.16 | You think Gary Johnson is an anarcho-capitalist? |
BlacKapes
07.19.16 | lol no he's like as moderate as you can get still being a libertarian, still would much rather him than the others bc the others want bigger and bigger government and want to be authoritarian |
Snake.
07.19.16 | para i don't even know how you can even vote for trump now, he couldn't satisfy the bigoted bullshit brought by the conservative regime himself so he had to compensate by choosing one of the most dangerous threats to the LGBT community worldwide as VP |
Kupasexy15
07.19.16 | I'll answer honestly, as I'm conservative Christian with what many would consider are salty opinions:
Trump is necessary evil. He's far from perfect, but he doesn't need to be. There really isn't a conservative party in America, and there needs to be. And that's why Trumps needs to be. He's a raging forest fire incinerating the dead wood, so something better and new can grow from the ashes. He's a heat-seeking missile locked onto the center of the Republican establishment -- all he has to do is go boom. Let the pieces fall where they may.
His candidacy also is actually freeing us. He's expanding what's known as the Overton Window. There were certain subjects we can't talk about because the chilling of political correctness. But thanks to Trump, we're actually talking about immigration policy and actually having functional borders backed by the rule of law. We're considering halting mass Muslim immigration for the time being, who as a people have no concept of equality before the law, feminism, the separation of church and state, freedom of speech, freedom of religion, LGBT rights etc. Their values are incompatible with our values, which always causes social strife: e.g. Nice, Cologne, Paris, Brussels, Charlie Hebdo, Orlando, San Bernadino, Boston Marathon bombing. Our cultures do not mix, especially since we've become so self-flagellating and don't promote assimilation. Too many of our elites are repulsed by the idea that when in Rome, do as the Romans. Trump's moratorium rejects this idiocy of "diversity" for the sake of diversity that is progressive multiculturalism. Trump simply is a return to common sense that is so lacking in Western politics these days.
As for Trump vs. Hillary, it's not that difficult. Hillary is incompetent, corrupt and running as proxy for Obama's third term. Even if Trump is a racist -- he's not -- the presidency can and has survived racists (Woodrow Wilson). What it can't survive is incompetence and corruption.
Moreover, with the Supreme Court in the balance, and issues concerning religious liberty, freedom of conscience, freedom of speech and the Second Amendment -- which ultimately backs up the Bill of Rights -- it's critical that a conservative justice gets nominated to protect these negative liberties. |
Cryptkeeper
07.19.16 | Either a Trump presidency is gonna tear up the (Republican) political system or it's gonna be a reason reinforce it with more superdelegates the way the Democratic party has done to make sure the puppets will always dance on their master's strings. |
Cryptkeeper
07.19.16 | 'What it can't survive is incompetence and corruption.'
After all of Trump's failed enterprises, his crooked ass faking to donate money to war veteran charities, lying about the amount of money, and only donating that money months later only because journalists smelt some shady shit, I definetly would call Trump corrupt and incompetent, but who needs to look at his actions right? |
SgtShock
07.19.16 | Crypt's gotta good point about using extremist straw men to argue past one another. EDIT: Misread crypt's post so I deleted the second half of this comment) |
Kupasexy15
07.19.16 | Cryptkeeper,
I've heard it a lot, but I'm wondering why you used the the phrase, "on the right side of history"? How does history have sides, let alone what I think you mean moral sides? |
porcupinetheater
07.19.16 | "We're considering halting mass Muslim immigration for the time being, who as a people have no concept of equality before the law"
Yeah! No respect for equal rights! Let's ban 'em and put them and them exclusively on a privacy invading register!
Like, do you have any self-awareness at all? |
Kupasexy15
07.19.16 | Businesses fail, Crypt. He still has had a successful career as a business man and making it rich off his brand. Yeah, all what you scribbled for some reason doesn't bother me as much as Hillary putting state secrets on an unsecured server for Moscow to easily read and perjuring herself about doing so. |
porcupinetheater
07.19.16 | Trump isn't a good business man, he's a good pitchman with a powerful legal team that screws over his contractors and runs repeated business ventures into the fucking ground and just happened to get lucky with a massive inheritance and a few fluke New York real estate purchases. |
Conmaniac
07.19.16 | actually keep me tagged in this list so I can see which sput users are fucking idiots
already got a list started |
SgtShock
07.19.16 | I don't see how a ham-fisted, mass-banning of Muslims from our country is going to improve relations or solve any issue. It would legitimately just make the US seem xenophobic and backwards. |
Kupasexy15
07.19.16 | Pocupine,
Is there a right to immigrate to this country? Equality before the law for our citizens, sure, but are you positing some inalienable right to become a US citizen? Don't you think a real role of the federal government is to regulate and control our borders, as it pertains to national defense?
You're putting words in my mouth, porcupine. I never said I supported a register for current Muslims citizens, who ought to be equal before the law. I would oppose that vehemently. I supported stopping mass immigration of people who fundamentally don't see the world anywhere near as close as you and I do -- which, judging by your snarky comment is still a planetary distance. |
Conmaniac
07.19.16 | added^ |
Kupasexy15
07.19.16 | Porcupine,
The Apprentice. He's rebranded himself, and despite his failures, he's still worth millions. And what are you're actual credentials of running businesses? Do you know the details of why certain deals or ventures of his failed? |
Friday13th
07.19.16 | @Kupa Gleefully embracing revisionist history is the trend these days. "Wrong side of history" is a postmodern/dialectical materialist phrase. There's some sort of relativist/utilitarian morality in there somewhere but it's not worth understanding.
Nice Trump analysis, Kupa. You have your priorities straight.
Omg Lambs just laid a pile of woop up there. Hillary has many times mentioned systemic racism is the cause of (supposed) police brutality and canonized a bunch of proven thugs in a spineless pandering to BLM. Look at the peace that's brought us. Hillary is on board the extreme train of lies.
Being selective on what immigrants to bring in out of the whole friggin world is no big deal. Japan has never let Muslims in. |
porcupinetheater
07.19.16 | Codswallop, the Muslim register is purely directed at people who are already citizens.
You can talk all you want about only supporting border control (which itself condemns people fleeing Isis, who attack other Muslims at a significantly higher rate than any other group and only helps their narrative and leads to further and accelerated radicalization, particularly in conjunction with a US military policy that supports mass bombing campaigns - the "liberal" one currently in place and largely endorsed by Hillary included), but you can't endorse Trump for his border control without implicitly endorsing his interior Islamophobic hate speech, as well. You can't cherry pick-support a politician's political beliefs while supporting that politician. |
BlacKapes
07.19.16 | who the fuck says codswallop lmao nigga |
porcupinetheater
07.19.16 | And don't give me that "I'm not a business man, so I can't criticize failed business policy" bullshit. You aren't a border agent in charge of homeland security, therefore you can't criticize immigration policy. Come off it.
Trump has a fucking documented history of piling unsustainable debt on numerous businesses he runs, until eventually filing for chapter 11 bankruptcy, most notably numerous times for Trump casinos. The amount he has is less than what he would have if he just stuck is inheritance in a fucking hedge fund.
(@BlacKapes - I'm the British equivalent of a weeabo, I suppose) |
Kupasexy15
07.19.16 | SgtShock,
What's ham-fisted about what I just wrote? Xenophobic? Hardly. What's irrational about saying we shouldn't take in large swaths of people who have sizeable populations who believe that Sharia law should be the law of the land. That, for example, means a woman's testimony in a court of law is worth three times less than a man's. How does that square with our culture that values equality before the law and feminism? Not all cultures are morally equivalent. Not all cultures are compatible. To put to incompatible ones together is recipe for social strife, and we've seen some of that already. |
Friday13th
07.19.16 | The vast majority of border agents support Trump btw
A business can go bankrupt if it's an LLC and that doesn't mean the person is bankrupt. It just means the company's assets don't cover the debt/interest. You sell and move on. I studied business. |
porcupinetheater
07.19.16 | Never said Trump himself was bankrupt, said he's a shitty businessman that bankrupts his businesses repeatedly, which is provable. |
Friday13th
07.19.16 | That doesn't make a businessman shitty, it means he's been working hard and not hoarding like liberals assume all rich people do.
One politician funds her campaign with $200 million of corporate donations, the other funds his own campaign with $40 million of his own money. |
Kupasexy15
07.19.16 | Porcupine,
I said Trump is necessary evil. I didn't say he was perfect. I didn't say I agree with everything he has stated in blustery campaign. He's not Hitler, and he's not going to do Hitler-type things. And I see no reason why if I support one candidate, that must mean I support all his positions or his statements. That doesn't follow. But there are really good things about his candidacy culturally that are invaluable in my mind that far outweigh the bad.
Sure, that's more or less true. But you're criticizing the results, but you don't have much of an idea why or what led to him making those decisions that led to those results. The important thing, he's figure out ways to thrive despite making mistakes or errors.
|
porcupinetheater
07.19.16 | Man, it's pathological with his ventures. And Trump hoards his cash whenever he thinks he can get away with it - there're numerous anecdotal cases of him fucking over small business owners that he hires on contracts and that threatens with expensive legal proceedings to get out of paying them what they initially agreed upon: look up Andrew Tesoro
(Also, Friday, your final statement implies I'm supporting Clinton, which I assure you, I'm not. She's a corrupt, racist, rape-defending war monger) |
Kupasexy15
07.19.16 | Thanks, Friday.
I know to what he was referring. I have a degree in philosophy, so I know what Hegelian dialectic is and how Marx inverted it and incorporated it in his concrete, historical materialism. I just wanted to see if Cryptkeeper did. Call his bluff. I find run-of-the-mill progs say things, but they have no idea where they come from or what they really mean. |
Friday13th
07.19.16 | @Porcupine Hey if you're a Gary Johnson supporter we can shake hands, live and let die.
keywords being anecdotal and on Hillary's website amiright hehe
@Kupa right on |
porcupinetheater
07.19.16 | @Kupa
How in the world can you support a candidate by arguing that the ideology is more important than the effectual results? Sure, I know there's a lot of (misguided) ideological rage that's led to the seemingly irreparable political schism we currently have, but that doesn't change the fact that the results are unconscionable racism and discrimination, and, potentially, disastrous increases in the very "radical Islamic terrorism" (that he has a hard-on for saying) that he claims to be fighting. The results are horrifying, and the ideology is rooted in uninformed and misguided disappointment in a two-party system that by design screws over the average citizen. |
porcupinetheater
07.19.16 | @Friday, Jill Stein for me, but I'd sooner have Johnson than either Trump or Clinton |
Friday13th
07.19.16 | Miss sunshine eh
How about that retroactive student debt canceling. Sounds about as legal as armed robbery. |
porcupinetheater
07.19.16 | I don't have any qualms, considering the student debt is directly tied to a phenomenon in just the last couple decades that saw all college education privatized and with rates immediately and consistently hiked since then to the point that paying off the debts required to have a chance at a successful future more or less took away that chance (for all but the luckiest), and required a sacrificing of ambition for functional wage slavery to prevent insurmountable debt that led to legal action without payment in very short order, exacerbated in an environment that isn't conducive to the acquiring of long term jobs. It's a foundationally corrupt system, and I don't have any problem with them losing the money they've spent the last 20 years actively screwing people out of. |
Kupasexy15
07.19.16 | Porcupine,
I think what you don't understand is that I'm not voting for him so much for his character. It's not great, but it's more appealing than Hillary's. Narcissistic or not, Trump, from what I can tell, loves this country. Hillary, from what I can tell, ultimately loves herself and will say or do anything for her own self-aggrandizement, even if it means letting Americans die at Benghazi.
Trump is a vessel of conservative anger for the last 8 years. He has a chance to destroy the status quo. His candidacy can force the "true conservatives" with good "character" to actually conserve something and not just be content with being the faces of a political opposition always in slow retreat. These "true conservatives" are content with presiding over ruins and letting the totalitarian left continue its transformation of this country, consolidates its grip on what's considered acceptable to say in the national discourse and run roughshod over the Bill of Rights. |
porcupinetheater
07.19.16 | I agree, Hillary is a rampant and irredeemable narcissist. But I don't understand how you can say that and not see that Trump is exactly the fucking same. They're both just piggy-backing on mainstream ideologies in the interest of their own personal corruption, just on opposing sides of the spectrum. Trump may be a vessel, but he flip-flops to his base just as much as Hillary (her late switch to LGBT rights when it became fashionable, his jumping on the religion train to appeal to the fundamentalists, etc.) I don't see how you could call one out on it and not the other when both do basically nothing to conceal how fucking obviously they're pandering. |
Friday13th
07.19.16 | @Porcupine But you do understand who pays for it, right? Not the universities that will continue to get funded. Not the professors and advisors that lead students to believe worthless diplomas would land them a job. Not Obama that signed the last student debt reform that currently makes debt impervious to bankruptcy. No, the taxpayer. All the smart responsible people who worked hard to make a living. |
porcupinetheater
07.19.16 | At the hefty cost, with the amount of people living in the country, at about 40 dollars a year. I'll happily cover that shit, especially if it means giving people the opportunity to pursue meaningful accomplishments that they otherwise wouldn't have been able. |
SgtShock
07.19.16 | @kupa: Having an immigration policy is fine. But how does a ban like that help the US' relations with Muslims? Just seems like it's one more reason so for extremist groups to hate the US. Furthermore, I don't see how it would be enforceable. Just gonna blanket ban certain countries from immigration? Fine, but not every immigrant is gonna harbor fundamental Islamic ideals. Also, there are individuals who hold the views you're speaking about in countries that wouldn't be considered "large populations" like you mentioned. So what, are you gonna screen immigrants based on their religious status? How? Just hope everyone's honest? None of this seems effective at all. |
Friday13th
07.19.16 | I kinda like the model where you're only given a scholarship for degrees that are in demand and everything else costs the students because their studies aren't really helping society in any objective sense. A lot of students would have been better off learning a quick trade and maybe going to the public library more often. |
Friday13th
07.19.16 | Our infidel status and lack of Shariah are enough for muslim extremists to hate the U.S.
ask them to draw Mohammed |
porcupinetheater
07.19.16 | I'd be alright with that, if the tuitions were brought down to a reasonable level (which, even factoring in inflation, they have been for the majority of their history), but where tuitions are now, even taking into account shifting prices, are the picture of corrupt legal theft. It's made even worse in a time when, more than ever, college degrees are required for anyone who wants to work in almost any capacity beyond the service industry. The system is fundamentally rigged against the student as things currently stand, unless said student already has a background of independent wealth, which itself displays more clearly than its ever been before the laughability of the "American Dream."
If college is priced at a fair system that treats the capacity to have a fulfilling future as a right rather than a purely economically determined privilege, I'll happily support a graduated scholarship system. Until then... |
porcupinetheater
07.19.16 | Our hypothetically secular status and lack of governmental Christian theology are enough for christian extremists to hate the U.S.
ask them to publicly acknowledge (note: not support or believe) anything from any other religious origin |
Kupasexy15
07.19.16 | Porcupine,
What policy will lead to "unconscionable racism and discrimination"? And could you give an example of the "unconscionable racism and discrimination" you fear that will occur?
Islamic terrorists commit acts of barbarism not because of "Islamophobia" or some toxic, "noninclusive" environment that apparently conservatives are somehow responsible for. They do them for ideological reasons. They have free will and agency. People are compelled to do things for other reasons than environment or power structures. They aren't just a sum of social relations that determine what they do or who they are.
If you actually look at the latest statistics for hate crimes (2014, I believe) Muslims are second on the list for victims of hate crimes. There's somewhere around 100. The first are Jews, which the reported statistics show suffer about 10X as many hate crimes. In a country of 320 million, that's pretty good, but the point is, a first glance, there isn't the expected correlations of concrete bigotry that would correspond with this rising culture of hatred you are wary of.
Islamic terrorism is evil perpetrated by evil men. Calling it or them evil and make policy on that truism won't demotivate them from being what they are -- wheezing bags of dick tips. Let's put it this way: Imagine if FDR and politicians refused to call the Nazis evil out of fear of offending German Americans who might somehow be compelled to join the Third Reich. That would be hopelessly silly and a poor way of conducting our war effort. |
Kupasexy15
07.19.16 | Porcupine,
You might be fine with paying it -- if that is indeed the cost -- but other people might not be. You're being magnanimous with other people's money. And given taxation is always ultimately backed by a barrel of a gun, the ramification being that you're fine with the government forcibly taking other people's money for something they don't actually support. Just to be clear. |
porcupinetheater
07.19.16 | Dude, quite a few of the people supporting Isis (outside the inherent and misguided radicals that are a disavowed and embarrassing component of any religion) reached the point of radicalization through either American terror campaigns in the Middle East - again, a policy that owes just as much a debt to American liberalism as conservatism, just to clarify that I'm not specifically charging the right wing with this, the American left wing is largely disgusting, as well - that inherently lead to the wanton deaths of countless people living in the Middle East, made up largely of outsider non-combatants, can very easily and understandably foster hatred in the survivors and makes radicalization extraordinarily simple. Look at all the people calling for the murder of not just terrorists, but the families of suspected terrorists here - and that's without having their families and closest friends subjected to seemingly endless airstrikes. Add to that a relatively new culture that explicitly paints Muslims as an other (including the ones that live here, which bears striking resemblance to the Japanese interment camps of WWII), and the creation of an anti-American sentiment is inevitable. There's a reason Isis recruitment campaigns prominently feature Trump's hate speech. |
porcupinetheater
07.19.16 | The pressure of taxation is backed by both parties, the only question is where it's directed. The right wing supports the anecdotally failed trickle down theory through tax cuts on the rich, whereas the left wing increasingly favors a graduated taxation system that puts added pressure on the people that can afford to pay them, and functionally decreases taxation pressures on a majority of the population. |
Friday13th
07.19.16 | lol Porcupine I'm sure the Christian terrorist numbers would have to be comparable for you to make such a parallel. You know, the less than 30 exclusively abortion doctors who have been murdered in American history. We have a less than 1% Muslim population and we still get way more radicals.
I think we all agree that Muslims should be treated with respect, but at some point you have to divide between peaceful religion and death cult. Islamism is a death cult. For eveyone's safety including peaceful Muslims, measures must be taken. You can't see the terror statistics and pretend it's just another regular religion. Muslims need to willingly help weed out the evil strain too. |
SgtShock
07.19.16 | Nice job sidestepping my point, Kupa. Also, wtf is this?
"They do them for ideological reasons. They have free will and agency. People are compelled to do things for other reasons than environment or power structures. They aren't just a sum of social relations that determine what they do or who they are."
So Islamic terrorists are born with a "natural" ideological urge? And how isn't religion the product of socialization? Is there some God gene that awakens in every individual? I think you should honestly stop and read what you're writing before you hit submit. |
porcupinetheater
07.19.16 | Unless it's directed at very specifically designated, commonly perceived groups hated by Christians, it is classified as a hate or terror motivated crime.
Dylann Roof was a regular church attendant, and you don't see him being classified as a Christian terrorist. The classification isn't indicative of the facts of a situation, it's post-action motivated rhetoric utilized to spin a narrative to a desired result, a result that in the US of A, a heavily Christian nation, isn't particularly interested in seeing Christians painted as "the other." An other that is inherently assigned, to anyone who has even a modicum of empathy, to murderers.
Do people motivated by Islamic extremism commit atrocities? Of course.
Do people motivated by Christian extremism commit atrocities? Just as much so, it just isn't painted that way. |
Friday13th
07.19.16 | agency, Sgt, agency
choice...you know...like pro choice? or should it really be "pro social pressure and response to stimuli"? |
Friday13th
07.19.16 | That's so dishonest to say "just as much", Porcupine. One example = just as much. Go move to Syria and let me know how many Christian terrorists you find. You know, I bet there are a load of Hindu and Budhist terrorists too since all religions are pretty much the same. |
SgtShock
07.19.16 | @Friday: I'm not promoting the erasure of agency, Friday. Man, you always seem to start frothing at the mouth whenever social perspective gets added to the discussion. What happened? Did you get mugged at the American Sociological Conference? |
oWhoadYo
07.19.16 | yo my band just released a new album
https://elemantraband.bandcamp.com/album/foreign-breath |
porcupinetheater
07.19.16 | Go to Sri Lanka and tell me how many Muslim terrorists you find.
(Hint: it's mostly Buddhists massacring Hindus there).
Essentially, levels of terror are entirely contingent on social situations in a given area.
And in America, again, only killings by people labeled as Muslim are designated as Terror killings. The manner in which things are presented represents how they are received: i.e., Muslim American murderers are "terrorists," African American murderers are, "thugs; criminals," white American murderers are "disturbed, lone wolves, mentally ill," (despite the fact that others might be as well), and no probing whatsoever is done into their religious background, despite that fact that white murders are responsible for more mass killings on American soil, by a large capacity, than any other group or ethnicity. |
Friday13th
07.19.16 | @Sgt Well he said agency and you glossed over it. It's true, I'm not a fan of social perspectives (especially plural "perspectives") |
Keyblade
07.19.16 | umm africa is rife with christian terrorism? go peep whats going on in the central african republic where people (muslims ironically) are beheaded and cannibalized (yes) en masse
or if u wanna talk buddhists perhaps u should keep up with whats going on in burma where there are regular pogroms (against muslims again) and terrorism from buddhist monks. but these dont make global headlines cuz its not white ppl who are the victims and it doesnt fall into the narrative that all terrorists are muslims |
Friday13th
07.19.16 | Those don't usually qualify as terror because there are material gains to be had. Not all murder or genocide is terror even if it is terrible. The problem we have with muslim terrorists is they have no respect for their own self-preservation so you can't stop them. |
Keyblade
07.19.16 | lol i knew u were gonna say something like that |
SgtShock
07.19.16 | @Friday: I can see why you feel that way. It doesn't help that sociology and gender studies terms are inappropriately jammed into online discourse until all meaning connected to them fades away. Or the fact that post modern perspectives are used as a nihilistic retreat rather than simply a tool to expose biases and conduct better science. Oh well. |
Friday13th
07.19.16 | I mean I see how these postmodern perspectives revolve around biases and might have a thing or two that's worth contemplating. I don't see how it's compatible with science at all. Objectivity is basically gone and yes, it all becomes a strangely rigid form of nihilism. Like you can't even just enjoy nihilism how it's meant to be lol amiright |
porcupinetheater
07.19.16 | Fucking Christ, there's no arguing with you, you spin everything to fit you convenient narrative, regardless of the facts surrounding someone's background or the situation in which it arises. If religion is so fucking important to someone of the Islamic faith, why the fuck is it irrelevant to anyone else, even when the murders (and there are many of them, from any faith, Hindus against Mulsims during the conflict between India and Pakistan, Buddhist against Hindu in Sri Lanka, Buddhists against Muslims in Burma, and, if you want to ignore that current and obviously Christian motivated killings today, the historical murders of Christianity against both other religions (the crusades), and other Christians (Zwingli, for example, because you apparently won't accept obvious examples in the mordern age when the church (which here largely implicates the laymen and not merely the religious leaders) dances around the motivations of such killings). |
Keyblade
07.19.16 | terrorism doesnt count unless they're muslim bro |
Friday13th
07.19.16 | I condemn all murder, porcupine, if that wasn't clear. If I knew anyone who was going murder anyone I'd turn him in. When we're talking policy, we have to try things that are effectual. Terrorism is different because regular safety precautions don't work. We know why Muslim terrorists do what they do and we know that economics and feeling marginalized have nothing to do with being willing to kill yourself for 70 virgins in paradise. Preventative measures must be taken. |
Keyblade
07.19.16 | lmao if u actually think it's about getting 70 virgins in heaven |
FourthDyke
07.19.16 | Im voting for trump because i think fat chino would do the same and we all know fat chino is best chino |
Friday13th
07.19.16 | lmao you think muslims in the middle east speak progressive politics lingo and use marxist justifications |
Keyblade
07.19.16 | how does it feel to be as informed as a kevin hart joke |
Keyblade
07.19.16 | and that was the weirdest strawman i done ever seen, gj |
FourthDyke
07.19.16 | Have you guys ever heard saturday night wrist? |
zakalwe
07.19.16 | 70 virgins? I'd rather have 20 filthy slags.
|
SgtShock
07.19.16 | @Friday: Aye. As in most theory, the middle ground tends to make the most sense |
porcupinetheater
07.19.16 | Regular safety precautions don't work for other mass murderers either. I'm not saying people willfully support people of any other ideologies murdering innocent people.
People willfully assign Muslim murderers to doing it "for 70 virgins in paradise," but refuse to so much as acknowledge that extremism has any motivation whatsoever for anyone who commits a murder that doesn't have a vaguely Middle Easter skin town, and anyone who does is immediately a terrorism suspect. Regular safety precaustions don't work for anyone who has even a fucking hypothetical interest in murder (especially for white people who don't have any functional blocks to acquiring weaponry), and I have yet to see any reasonable proof that marginalization has nothing to do with the radicalization that leads to the very small number of murders that this country sees fit to classify as religiously motivated, or that's it's somehow different from Christian murderers. |
FourthDyke
07.19.16 | Id rather jam smiths non stop m/ |
Friday13th
07.19.16 | So when they tell you they did it for the virgins, you go "nah, you don't actually believe that. You did it for the reasons I would do the same thing." Not a strawman imo |
porcupinetheater
07.19.16 | Oh shit, never mind, Sputnik confirmed Fat Chino is most effective Chino, shit, FourthDyke you opened my eyes, I'm glad nobody from the Netherlands plugged you |
FourthDyke
07.19.16 | Hope trump comes to brazil m/ |
SgtShock
07.19.16 | Anyone else look up Houri and find the "Young boys of perpetual freshness" section? That is some good shit, lol. Almost as good as Christianity's "God summoning bears to maul 42 kids cuz they made fun of some guys baldness" |
FourthDyke
07.19.16 | I just watch fiji water reviews mostly |
zakalwe
07.19.16 | I mean if you were actually that bothered to bed 70 virgins just be a school PE teacher. No vest required. |
porcupinetheater
07.19.16 | And Jesus @Friday, you're completely flipping the argument. Nobody's saying Islamic terrorism isn't responsible for any killings whatsoever. We're asking you to fucking acknowledge that other religions are also responsible for terrorism, in the same capacity. If you're going to go so far as to say that people of the Islamic faith are killing for their God, then you have to be willing to acknowledge that people of almost any other fucking other faith are willing to kill in almost the same numbers (except Voodoo, that only happens in horror movies). |
FourthDyke
07.19.16 | Does that make me gay yea |
Keyblade
07.19.16 | 72 virgins (which is a weird, incorrect meme peddled by non-muslims...but for the sake of argument) have been available for muslims for almost 1.5 millenia...but islamic terrorism is a relatively very recent phenomenon in the last ~20 years or so. odd
but naw muslims in the m.e. are savages incapable of being politically inclined and driven only by their religion and lust. lol keep telling on urself homie |
zakalwe
07.19.16 | Have you been to a mosque? It's like church but even more besotted by the blind. |
Friday13th
07.19.16 | lol Zak them pedos get caught and rightfully so. |
FourthDyke
07.19.16 | I cant go to a mosque because im not real |
porcupinetheater
07.19.16 | I can't be be real, because I am a mosque |
Kupasexy15
07.19.16 | Sgt Shock,
I'm holding two convos at and once and I just had a long comment addressed to both you and porky that got deleted because of its length. My man Friday though is doing a good job articulating, reiterating and providing rebuttals for my views.
I'm not dodging anything. Your last comment addressed to me wasn't very clear. Given the time of day where I live, I don't have the desire to discern what you mean. Good argument takes effort and clarity, and a Sputnik thread isn't exactly conducive to such an end. So, I'm doing the best that I can.
Anyway, what point are you exactly accusing me of dodging?
|
Friday13th
07.19.16 | It's not even close to the same capacity and it's not even close to the same kind of fight. I already told you why. Wars, murders, and genocide are horrible and yes belong to all sorts of people including Christians. |
porcupinetheater
07.19.16 | (I have a good argument!)
(No really, I just don't know what it is!)
(No really, I'm sleepy!)
-Kupa |
Kupasexy15
07.19.16 | Haha. |
Keyblade
07.19.16 | must suck to be suffering from all that cognitive dissonance |
porcupinetheater
07.19.16 | OK, give me a good (factual) rebuttal as to why the minority (in population and in murders committed) Muslim extremists are more dangerous.
http://time.com/3934980/right-wing-extremists-white-terrorism-islamist-jihadi-dangerous/ |
Keyblade
07.19.16 | things are only the way i want to see them because fuck u thats why |
SgtShock
07.19.16 | "Having an immigration policy is fine. But how does a ban like that help the US' relations with Muslims? Just seems like it's one more reason so for extremist groups to hate the US. Furthermore, I don't see how it would be enforceable. Just gonna blanket ban certain countries from immigration? Fine, but not every immigrant is gonna harbor fundamental Islamic ideals. Also, there are individuals who hold the views you're speaking about in countries that wouldn't be considered "large populations" like you mentioned. So what, are you gonna screen immigrants based on their religious status? How? Just hope everyone's honest? None of this seems effective at all."
That was the comment. I shouldn't have assumed you willfully ignored it, so sorry about that. I get what you mean about Sputnik not being the easiest place to talk about complex issues. |
Kupasexy15
07.19.16 | I admit I do find it ironic that I'm accused of not answering someone's point, when there's a lot of what I've written that you guys haven't addressed or just summarily ignored. |
SgtShock
07.19.16 | Also, mad props for anyone who's been typing these rants out on their phone's touchscreen keyboards. That shit ain't easy. |
porcupinetheater
07.19.16 | "things are only the way I want to see them because fuck u thats why"
K evidence please, + the points that you think haven't been answered and I'll happily answer |
zakalwe
07.19.16 | I've asked this one before but does anybody live in a 'multicultural' area?
I'm not taking about a curry house up the road and a Polski Sklep on the corner or 'chinatown'
I'm talking a swathe of foreign culture that floods in? |
Keyblade
07.19.16 | lol not u porc dude, i agree with u |
Friday13th
07.19.16 | Maybe you forgot 9/11.
You know, high tech, best defense in the world penetrating terrorism. Maybe you missed the immigrant crisis, the one that ceases to let up and you will claim is such a humanitarian disaster when it fits a progressive agenda. Maybe you fail to see the most advanced national defenses in the first world scrambling to stop this stuff. And you bring up third world conflicts as a rebuttal. It's terrorism because no one is safe. Not because you drove into war torn congo to look for trouble. You go to a concert and get mowed. |
porcupinetheater
07.19.16 | Oh, shit, whoops, saw a K start point and started jumping to all sortsa conclusions (K in this case is short for Kupa)
My bad, my man |
Friday13th
07.19.16 | @Sgt :) yup I'm a thumb master
damn some of you guys have good taste in music
too bad this politics stuff has to suck us in |
Keyblade
07.19.16 | its only terrorism when they get past my super tight western defences
anyway YOU were the one who asked for examples of terrorism in asia and the third world, the fuck is wrong with u? u move the goalposts so fast u cant even keep up with urself, jesus christ |
SgtShock
07.19.16 | Depends on your standards, zak. My city isn't as crazy as NYC or even myneighbor, Miami, but it still has a great deal of Latino presence. Then again, you may not consider a high Puerto Rican population to be any more foreign than Midwestern white people with Mickey Mouse hats. Idk, let the diversity olympics commence. |
Kupasexy15
07.19.16 | Yeah, a de facto moratorium works on Islamic countries seems very enforceable True, not every Muslims is a threat, and many just want to live their lives, worship Allah, provide for their family. But public policy often must be based in generalities and not exceptions to the rule. So we can't treat this as a question about a singular individual case but comprehensive groups. If the question was just Muslim family A, I have no problem with letting them in. But, we're talking about thousands upon thousands upon Muslims families. It's an entirely different question. There is no right to immigration.
What I mean by large populations is that polls show in Morocco -- a moderate Islamic country -- not an insignificant amount think Sharia should be the law of the land. So taking a large amount of Moroccans and transplanting them next to a much Texans with a contradictory different view of the universe, there's bound to be strife.
Does that answer your question?
Oh, and "naturally" refers to "easily follows". I wasn't referring to genes or something biological. |
Friday13th
07.19.16 | Good point, Keyblade. I did ask, but you know I don't accept your definition of terror. |
Keyblade
07.19.16 | well obviously. it doesnt really fit into ur narrative does it |
zakalwe
07.19.16 | Sgt. Yeah I suppose I'm trying to avoid the issue but I basically mean Muslim integration (or lack of) due to the divides or total domination. |
Friday13th
07.19.16 | it doesn't fit logic to be terrorized by genocide on the other side of the world |
porcupinetheater
07.19.16 | @Friday
Believe me, I see the "best defenses" scrambling to stop it. Just like the perpetrators of those attacks were definitely American citizens, and just like those committing the attacks are American citizens and who are only attacking American soil and not other Muslims, not at all (by the way, that was sarcasm, considering Muslims are, again, the largest victims of Isis). Thank the Lord for fucking border control. Like, if you want to bring in 9/11, the perpetrators were DEFINITELY applying for American citizenship, and there's DEFINITELY been enough situations since then to show Citizenship applications have any connection to terrorism (if you're thick, that was actually sarcasm. There aren't, believe it or not). And if you face the facts and admit that the path to citizenship isn't there, you're just preventing people trying to escape the same thing you're arguing against from escaping and leaving open the potential for extremist conversion (particularly considering the three factors of: fear, American Islamophobic campaigns, and the potential massacre of families).
Aside, Keyblade, you're one of my favorite people right now |
Keyblade
07.19.16 | it only fits logic when ur trying to make a point, but not when that point backfires. lol ok |
SgtShock
07.19.16 | Oh okay, the natural thing makes more sense. That explanation definitely hashed out your position a lot better. I guess I still don't understand how a policy like that prevents extremist attacks (which is the point that trumps platform hammers again and again). Which, on that note, seriously fuck that guy for using the pulse shooting to say "I told you so" |
Friday13th
07.19.16 | Trump's campaign calls for anihilation of Isis and resettlement of Muslim refugees in their own land.. I don't deny peaceful Muslims suffer the most. But you don't even want them to be on a registry to protect their own lives.
I don't quite get what you're try to say about citizenship, Porcupine. |
porcupinetheater
07.19.16 | You're trying so hard to create your own rhetoric of citizen Muslim attacks, when essentially one exists, and even the family has chocked that up to ingrained homophobia from someone who other anecdotal evidence has provided was homophobic to cover his own attraction to men.
Or maybe you forgot 9/11 (you know, that one committed by no fucking American citizens)
The influence Isis has on the refugies is the same influence causing them to seek asylum in the first place. |
Keyblade
07.19.16 | "But you don't even want them to be on a registry to protect their own lives."
umm wow |
Keyblade
07.19.16 | protect their lives. yeah that's totally it |
Friday13th
07.19.16 | That's just a bad argument because the whole point is that as it is we aren't letting any Muslim in willy nilly. Most of them are professionals or students and have to pass rigorous checks. Refugees pass no such reliable checks. So just because we've done a good job selecting citizens that means a more liberal approach will yield the same result? No. We'd be taking people straight from the war zone. |
Kupasexy15
07.19.16 | Yeah, both sides of the aisle politicize stuff when the bodies are even cold yet.
It may not prevent them wholesale, but it works to prevent them from increasing. Some already may radicalize and unfortunately do some terror. But as time passes on, the Muslims here will begin to intermarry with non-Muslims or moderate Muslims will become more American.
The issue is that young Muslim men seem to have trouble assimilating into Western society. So transplanting a bunch of them is likely to increase attacks. |
Keyblade
07.19.16 | "No. We'd be taking people straight from the war zone."
that's the whole point of granting asylum |
Kupasexy15
07.19.16 | Yep, Friday is more succinct and articulates better than me on this. |
Friday13th
07.19.16 | I don't doubt its altruistic intent. |
porcupinetheater
07.19.16 | "But as time passes on, the Muslims here will begin to intermarry with non-Muslims or moderate Muslims will become more American."
Oh my God, it's disgusting how fucking racist you are.
Essentially:
"People born in Islamic countries are fundamentally terrorists, we just have to wait long enough for them to have sex with 'normal people' so they can have 'normal babies,'"
How the fuck are you not aware how fucked up everything you seem to say is? |
SgtShock
07.19.16 | @Kupa: Is it, though? Where's the research backing that up? Where/How has causation been proven on that policy? I'm curious as to where you're getting this information from. |
Keyblade
07.19.16 | u guys act like there aren't gonna be stringent and thorough background checks on refugees like there have been forever. it's not like this syrian conflict is the first ever conflict where a lot of people flee to seek refuge. it's nothing but fearmongering and paranoia to assume that a bunch of terrorists are going to flood in simply because they're muslim |
Keyblade
07.19.16 | ""But as time passes on, the Muslims here will begin to intermarry with non-Muslims or moderate Muslims will become more American.""
lmfao holy |
porcupinetheater
07.19.16 | P@ SgtShock: Prediction:
Islamophobic asshole has no logical or factual explanation and relies on further intellectual fallacies to support argument. |
Keyblade
07.19.16 | how do ppl say shit like that with a straight face and then turn around and pretend like they're only concerned with security. fuck outta here |
Friday13th
07.19.16 | You only need a few rotten eggs. Thorough background checks, eh? From torn countries that have never been allies? Where would we get this info? |
Friday13th
07.19.16 | btw who said that quote? |
Kupasexy15
07.19.16 | porcupine,
That's not what I said at all. Culturally, we're incompatible. When I say become American, I mean culturally. I'm not implying more white, as if American refers to a Caucasian archetype.
I did not claim people in Islamic countries are born fundamentally terrorists, you slanderous asshole. |
SgtShock
07.19.16 | "Yeah, both sides of the aisle politicize stuff when the bodies are even cold yet"
NO political candidate has even come close to the level of disrespect for these recent tragedies as Donald Trump has. He had no fucking clue whether Omar Marteen was an immigrant or not. When I read his tweets the morning after my city lost all those people I swore I would never vote for someone that disgusting. Such blatant ignorance and arrogance. Who the fuck mocks a disabled person when they're running for president? Even in the past week he's been warping recent events to fit his campaign's talking points so he can seem like he's on the right side of every issue. You can try to hide Donald Trump's ludicrous tactics behind "but all politicians do xyz" but it's clear he's taken it all to a whole new level of depravity.
|
Kupasexy15
07.19.16 | porcupine, can you give identify by name the fallacies I've committed? |
Keyblade
07.19.16 | what do u even know about their culture let's be real lol
u basically said as time goes on they will hopefully become less muslim-y. if u dont see whats wrong with that statement then idk |
porcupinetheater
07.19.16 | K, I'll rephrase for you, ya closeted xenophobe:
"People of Islamic descent can't "escape" their Islamic heritage, and thus, anyone fleeing terror in their own country is a likely suspect for acts of Islamic terrorism. By the way guiz, I have a very limited grasp on the idea of cause and effect."
Improved? |
Kupasexy15
07.19.16 | He's also been super misrepresented. Like I said, it's what he represents more than his character that matters. |
Friday13th
07.19.16 | yeah I get you Kupa, it was just confusing because "moderate" implies already compatible with American culture, though if you look at stats some things considered moderate are not. |
Keyblade
07.19.16 | idk how a tweet he personally tweeted can be misrepresented. i agree with Sgt, that shit disgusted me and i thought that would be a nail in his coffin. who can vote for someone like that? the fact that he has prob millions of supporters who agreed with him is frankly frightening, moreso than any terrorist |
Friday13th
07.19.16 | @Porcupine anyone "fleeing terror" implies you know the motive for coming when you know full well you don't |
bakkermaarten007
07.19.16 | There's something as Christian terrorism? You bet there is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHEk_kaXmTk |
SgtShock
07.19.16 | Misrepresented? Who misrepresented his post-pulse tweets? Or his ridicule of that reporter? Or the multitude of other blunderous missteps this political season? That was all him. In fact, placing his quotes in context just damns them even further, as far as I'm concerned. |
Keyblade
07.19.16 | he's been misrepresented is like the default defence of him by his supporters, it's weird as hell. it's almost like they realize they cant deny that what's being 'misrepresented' is horrible, but they wanna pretend he didn't say it. crazy levels of cognitive dissonance |
bakkermaarten007
07.19.16 | hum hum hum
Christian terrorism:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHEk_kaXmTk |
porcupinetheater
07.19.16 | Fallacy question, from my dearest Kupa:
Genetic fallacy (you may argue this one, but you've yet to say anything against it)
Questionable authority: "And what are you're actual credentials of running businesses?"
Argumentum ad Populum: "These "true conservatives" are content with presiding over ruins and letting the totalitarian left continue its transformation of this country, consolidates its grip on what's considered acceptable to say in the national discourse and run roughshod over the Bill of Rights."
Appeal to Tradition: "I have a degree in philosophy, so I know what Hegelian dialectic is and how Marx inverted it"
Argument from Personal Incredulity: (after already explaining that politically enforced hostility can lead to radicalization): Islamic terrorists commit acts of barbarism not because of "Islamophobia" or some toxic, "noninclusive" environment that apparently conservatives are somehow responsible for. They do them for ideological reasons."
If you like, dear Kupa, I can go on.
But I've got class in the morning. @ Me in any arguments and I'll happily respond tomorrow. |
Kupasexy15
07.19.16 | We're conflating mass immigration with mass asylum now. Nope, I never said that anyone fleeing terror in their own country is a likely suspect for acts of Islamic terrorism. You keeping reading things in there I haven't said or just plain twisting them.
You can still be a Muslim -- follow the pillars of Islam -- and think there should be a separation of mosque and state. I've met such people.
Marriage has cultural aspects. So when people of different cultures marry, cultures change over time. This happened between the Irish, Germans, Swedes and Italians in this country. This is called assimilation and it's a good thing. A second generation American Muslim, might be more likely to denounce Sharia than her parents because she's both a product of Islamic and American influences. That's what I mean by intermarriage and become American.
|
bakkermaarten007
07.19.16 | Guys, watch the Christian terror above! |
Kupasexy15
07.19.16 | You can go on, but you clearly don't understand them and misapply them. And after you called me out on the genetic, I clarified my position: You fixated on results, but I said you lacked knowledge about how and why those results came about and what circumstances prompted Trump to make the decisions he did that led to those results.
An argument ad populum is thus:
1) Most people believe X
C) X is therefore true.
Appeal to tradition:
1) We've always done x
C) We should therefore continue to do x, or x is true, or x is right.
Likewise, that's not an argument from personal incredulity either.
|
Kupasexy15
07.19.16 | What tweet? I've known Trump has said some disgusting things that I don't support, but like I said it's what he represents. I can understand not voting for him for those reasons, but I'm not voting for him because of character.
This is what I mean by misrepresented: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gw8c2Cq-vpg |
Keyblade
07.19.16 | https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/742034549232766976?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw |
Kupasexy15
07.19.16 | Yeah, that's smug and offensive and not helping anything. There were better ways to communicate what he wanted there. |
Parallels
07.19.16 | >para i don't even know how you can even vote for trump now
>he couldn't satisfy the bigoted bullshit brought by the conservative regime himself
:) Yeah a lot of what people say about Trump (even on here) is just people blowing shit way out of proportion and context and throwing around shit like racist and xenophobe to people that disagree with them (although there are actual racists and xenophobes voting for him, they might not have voted for him if he was running as a democrat.) The media spends every day attacking the fuck out of him because they get attention and clicks and it's in the media owner's best interest to. I doubt Trump really cares about the Republican party considering that he is easily more of a moderate, but what he says about a large portion of illegal immigrants that come into this country is entirely true in my opinion and it's been documented through every president since Reagan.
And while I have friends of middle eastern descent I'm not going to tolerate a religion that would throw me off a roof given the chance. Feel free to call me Islamophobic in that regard, I'll gladly take wear that as a badge because I refuse to tolerate a religion that makes apostasy illegal, makes the sentence for being gay to be death, forces young gay men to transition to women, encourages family killing to restore "honor," and that encourages deceiving if it's for the greater good of their religion. The day I see the government and people there actually fight in numbers for human rights in the middle east is the day I start to tolerate them and not be horrified of them as a whole.
> most dangerous threats to the LGBT community worldwide as VP
Imo Pence is no more threatening than Bush was in 2000, to some that might be more than enough and he might push to pass something stupid like the partial birth abortion ban just to edge up against women's rights advocates but no one is going to undo LGBT rights without the nation erupting into civil war. He voted for things that were against LGBT previously but so did Hillary and fuck, even I voted for questionable stuff when I turned 18. He's harmless and that's why Trump picked him.
|
porcupinetheater
07.19.16 | As to my ad populum argument, you say that, "His candidacy can force the "true conservatives" with good "character" to actually conserve something and not just be content with being the faces of a political opposition always in slow retreat, and then state what I quoted: "These "true conservatives" are content with presiding over ruins and letting the totalitarian left continue its transformation of this country, consolidates its grip on what's considered acceptable to say in the national discourse and run roughshod over the Bill of Rights." Regardless of whether you put it in quotes or not, you're statement endorses the initial idea that the "conservation" of "something" - that you leave ambiguous, and through this ambiguity imply that this conservatism is correct.
Appeal to tradition: You're right, I was wrong. Your fallacy isn't an appeal to tradition, but an argument from authority, which you fail to back up with anything more substantial than "I have a degree in..."
Argument from personal incredulity: You debate that Muslims commit acts of terrorism for ideological reasons, after I've provided numerous sources saying that these are no different from other inspirational souces for terrorism. You fail to provide any anecdotal counterpoint. |
Parallels
07.19.16 | fuk, comment too long
The reasons I'm actually voting for Trump are because of his tax plan and a possible IRS reform, he's for state's rights just as much as Obama is, because he wants to cut off corporations from hiring the cheapest labor around the world instead of hiring americans, because he wants to streamline immigration and avoid people messing up the system for people that actually enter the country legally, and because he wants to put a sieve on people from entering the middle east which will prevent too many from leaving their homeland. Even the Dalai Lama said the muslim immigration into the US should not be allowed to happen, it boggles my mind that a bunch of people think it's racism because the media and Hillary say it is.) |
Parallels
07.19.16 | >Yeah, that's smug and offensive and not helping anything. There were better ways to communicate what he wanted there.
Yeah, idiots thanking him for "being right" and him saying that he didn't want their thanks is real offensive alright. jfc |
Keyblade
07.19.16 | "Yeah a lot of what people say about Trump (even on here) is just people blowing shit way out of proportion and context"
there it is again |
Parallels
07.19.16 | >there it is again
You know it bby. And I'll say it every time I need to against your smart assery Facebook-tier pandering :)
< 3 |
Keyblade
07.19.16 | "Yeah, idiots thanking him for "being right" and him saying that he didn't want their thanks is real offensive alright. jfc"
do u really believe he wasnt just congratulating and fellating himself, and was really just politely turning down thanks? idk if that's naivety or apology |
Kupasexy15
07.19.16 | Sgt shock,
About how do I know? It's simple. If you have a demographic with not an insignificant amount of members who do acts of terror because of a lack of cultural compatibility with the host population, one way to neutralize that is cultural assimilation over time. So rapidly increasing the number of people that aren't assimilated in that demographic increases the likelihood of continuing terror from that demographic and short circuits the effectiveness of the assimilation. That's all I'm arguing. |
Parallels
07.19.16 | I think the phrase "I don't want congrats" directly right after the fact made it pretty clear that he wasn't being serious.
As for the "being right" part, he guessed something and it turned out that he was right, and told people that congratulated him that he didn't want their thanks, and said he wanted them to be vigilant. |
Keyblade
07.19.16 | i really have no words |
bakkermaarten007
07.19.16 | You have five |
Keyblade
07.19.16 | dat middle school wit |
Kupasexy15
07.19.16 | porcupine,
I'm still not seeing ad populum. What I saying is, imho, many establishment Republicans don't conserve much, meaning they don't act like conservatives, ergo they're not conservatives. I'm saying America's political landscape needs to be changed to better represent its population. Trump is laying down the foundation for such a change to happen. You might be getting confused with No true Scotmans, but I'm not guilty of that either. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman
Furthermore, you're listing what are known as informal fallacies. What makes them a fallacy isn't purely from logical structure, as formal fallacies are, but also from content. So, take for instance the argument from authority. It does not mean every time an expert makes a truth claim, it means that claim is false on the grounds an expert said it. An appeal to an authority isn't itself fallacious but it can be depending on how it's used. Often we expect an authority is more likely to be right speaking about his field of expertise. It doesn't mean he's always right, but it's not necessarily unjustified to think he's right. So yes, it's not at all fallacious to think someone with a philosophy degree is likely to know some stuff about Hegel (philosopher) and Marx (the most famous intellectual Hegel has influenced), even if that person is reasoning that himself.
As for incredulity, I never rejected your reasoning as to why Muslims commit terrorism because I found it incomprehensible or didn't understand it. I rejected it because I don't think it's accurate. Saying I didn't address your argument is not the same as rejecting it because I didn't understand it.
As for countervailing evidence, try this: You can easily verify it too. Islam is about submission to Allah in all aspects of life. So this blends politics and the state with spirituality and religion. Like I said, there is no separation of mosque and state in Islam. Jihad is often both a political and spiritual act. So, when suicide bombers self-detonates in Iraq to kill US soldiers, there's aspects to it that are political -- the US invasion and occupation of Iraq -- and spiritual -- in that the bomber is taking direction from the Hadith and Muhammad.
Now, there are different meanings of Jihad, but the point is there seems to be virulent and prevalent interpretation of Jihad that justifies terrorism against non-Muslims, and that this has religious origins. So, yes, it's not at all unreasonable to conclude Muslims do things because of ideology. I think basic life experiences makes this plausible too. People have free will. They act on beliefs all the time. |
Kupasexy15
07.19.16 | Anyway, I got to sleep. It was nice butting heads. Sgt Shock, Porcupine, Keyblade, and whoever else, no hard feelings on my end. Trump is a pill -- I'll give you guys that -- but I just see Hillary as so much more destructive to this republic in both the short and long term. When both have shitty characters, you got to pick one for other reasons than that. |
bakkermaarten007
07.19.16 | "dat middle school wit
"
The key to ever lasting youth |
Keyblade
07.19.16 | peace kupa. really sucks having to choose between those 2. makes me kinda glad im not american and dont have to lol |
Cryptkeeper
07.19.16 | https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/754788362368741376
Cops shot, massive discord amongst black civil rights activists and cops?
Better look tough amirite?
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/754662980164386816
This kinda shit just makes me want to fucking leave this planet. |
Sinternet
07.19.16 | stop reviving dead threads you fucking morons |
Cryptkeeper
07.19.16 | http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/muslim-anti-isis-march-not-covered-by-mainstream-media-outlets-say-organisers-a6765976.html |
bakkermaarten007
07.19.16 | "http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/muslim-anti-isis-march-not-covered-by-mainstream-media-outlets-say-organisers-a6765976.html
"
'Anti-ISIS march'. More like in-defense-of-Islam-march or this-has-nothing-to-do-with-Islam march. Look at the banners, look at every single banner you find. It is not a march agains ISIS, it is merely a whitewash march of Islam.
A real anti-ISIS march would be a reformation of Islam march. Until then, we're getting nowhere |
bakkermaarten007
07.19.16 | And I will also dig this up again, to add some much-needed contrast and perspective:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/feb/08/british-muslims-london-protest-against-muhammad-cartoon-charlie-hebdo
Compare the numbers. |
bakkermaarten007
07.19.16 | Oh wow, there's even a banner that says' Islam Promotes Human Rights'.
Good, I needed that reassurance. Now I have repleted faith in multiculturalism. Sure feels good to look away in confidence. |
Friday13th
07.19.16 | I mean, I want to be charitable and say that many Muslims who say things like terrorism has "nothing to do with Islam" are also working to stop radicals in their communities. Call it denial, fear of being labeled, or genuine belief in different tenets of Islam. But in the end they know their opposition to terrorists springing from Muslim communities is crucial. Of course a lot of them are afraid of radical backlash.
But yeah, there is more outrage over cartoons and freedom of the press than terrorist violence. |
bakkermaarten007
07.19.16 | "But yeah, there is more outrage over cartoons and freedom of the press than terrorist violence."
Exactly, which says more than words. |
zakalwe
07.19.16 | Well I don't know about you but I'm welcome to letting a few more million in now. |
Conmaniac
07.19.16 | man too many sput users are fucking idiots I can't even keep a list |
Keyblade
07.19.16 | "I mean, I want to be charitable and say that many Muslims who say things like terrorism has "nothing to do with Islam" are also working to stop radicals in their communities."
u want to be charitable lol. but u'd rather assume the opposite. it wont kill you to challenge ur preconceptions from time to time
it's a fact that muslims in america at least are really pro-active in helping weed out extremists or potential extremists in their communities and actively assist authorities by reporting them
one interesting incident that happened a few years ago where the FBI planted an agent into a mosque in an attempt to ensnare potential extremists. what happened instead was the FBI agent was reported by the mosque members...to the FBI lol
ignoring the fact that the freedoms of muslims are being encroached on and the authorities are freely admitting it (dont think you'd mind though, considering that ur cool with them being registered in databases), you need to stop perpetuating the myth that muslims are cool with the extremist elements among them or arent doing anything about them based on nothing more than a hunch u have |
Cryptkeeper
07.19.16 | 'But yeah, there is more outrage over cartoons and freedom of the press than terrorist violence.'
How fucking detached have you become? |
guitarded_chuck
07.19.16 | bakkermaarten's favorite christian is muhammed ali
all you need to know |
Cryptkeeper
07.19.16 | 'Compare the numbers'
Maybe more people would've come if the demonstration got some more exposure hm? |
Friday13th
07.19.16 | I clearly specified I'm giving the benefit of the doubt to the ones that seem to deny the problem. I don't use a hunch. Here's a breakdown by a real Muslim reformer Raheel Raza: http://youtu.be/pSPvnFDDQHk |
Cryptkeeper
07.19.16 | 'More like in-defense-of-Islam-march or this-has-nothing-to-do-with-Islam march.'
Tfw your mum has thrown you against the wall so bad you completely forget the lack of uniformity in Islam and decide every muslim thinks the same.
Who cares about learning the differences between sunnism, shi'ism, sufism, salafism and wahabism right? |
Cryptkeeper
07.19.16 | 'I clearly specified I'm giving the benefit of the doubt to the ones that seem to deny the problem. I don't use a hunch. Here's a breakdown by a real Muslim reformer Raheel Raza: http://youtu.be/pSPvnFDDQHk'
I've said it a hundred times, and so have dozens of others on this site, the extremist interpretation is a result of the conditions of life of those muslims.
If you look at the trackrecord of America's involvement in the Middle-East, ranging from the assassination of democratically elected leaders, manipulation of factions in the region to wage war upon eachother, the treacherous nature of America and it's habit of stabbing any ally in the back, accompanied by the military involvement, enabling and funding of extremist terrorist organisations and their continued butchering of the local populace, are you really suprised they seek a religious doctrine that doesn't only provide solace but a way to avenge your country, relatives, friends or way of life? |
Keyblade
07.19.16 | "I clearly specified I'm giving the benefit of the doubt to the ones that seem to deny the problem. I don't use a hunch."
no the tone of ur post was i wannnna give them the benefit of the doubt but idk it seems like they care more about cartoons lol XD |
Cryptkeeper
07.19.16 | Blaming it on religion is not only a quick answer to a very complicated problem but also a veto on reaching an even more complicated solution. |
Keyblade
07.19.16 | "Tfw your mum has thrown you against the wall so bad you completely forget the lack of uniformity in Islam and decide every muslim thinks the same.
Who cares about learning the differences between sunnism, shi'ism, sufism, salafism and wahabism right?"
or the hundreds of different cultures that interact with it, u know with there being 2 billion of them
but no i read this website once, and i read this verse outside its textual context once so they must all think the way i want them to think to justify my xenophobia! |
Conmaniac
07.19.16 | "Blaming it on religion is not only a quick answer to a very complicated problem but also a veto on reaching an even more complicated solution"
ayy Crypt gets it |
Cryptkeeper
07.19.16 | 'but no i read this website once, and i read this verse outside its textual context once so they must all think the way i want them to think to justify my xenophobia!'
And I changed my opinion once so I'm pretty much the most intelligent person on this site |
Keyblade
07.19.16 | "Blaming it on religion is not only a quick answer to a very complicated problem but also a veto on reaching an even more complicated solution"
lol the funny part is that it's such a simple and lazy conclusion to draw, but is justified by a lot of convoluted mental gymnastics |
Friday13th
07.19.16 | yeah the textual context of the pedophile prophet who ran around killing people. If only they looked at context! Look at the research and statistics by Raheel Raza. Many of these countries like Indonesia have not been touched by American foreign policy. You liberals still project your justifications onto people with completely different cultures. |
Conmaniac
07.19.16 | okay cool Friday13th made it to the top of my list |
Keyblade
07.19.16 | lol is everyone who disagrees with u a liberal? u are literally a meme |
Friday13th
07.19.16 | no, when the shoe fits. I can't believe you're mad that I called you a liberal. What do you identify as politically? |
Keyblade
07.19.16 | aint nobody mad, im just laughing at how ur so quick to throw out labels and ish |
Keyblade
07.19.16 | it's almost as if u jump to conclusions based on preconceived notions |
Friday13th
07.19.16 | so was I right or not
it's called examining evidence you should try it |
Keyblade
07.19.16 | obviously not, which seems to be a running theme |
zakalwe
07.19.16 | Just ask yourself if you are willing to live in a predominantly Muslim area. Don't be scared to say "no" it doesn't make you a bad person.
There has to be a balance but trust me when it comes to Islam it's saturation and nothing else.
Come to Ilford and have your eyes opened by what actually happens, it'll give you more knowledge than any book will. |
Keyblade
07.19.16 | yea just like u examined the evidence on their being all kinds of terrorism all over the world, many of them religious
or like the time u examined the evidence on how muslims are addressing extremism in their communities
hey remember the time u examined the evidence and oddly came to the incorrect conclusion that islamic terrorism is based on the search for those elusive 72 virgins |
Cryptkeeper
07.19.16 | 'You liberals'
:') |
Friday13th
07.19.16 | keyblade refuses to identify in some twisted form of trying to come out on top. I have good news for you. There's a large movement in the U.S., Canada and abroad that agrees with you on the points you've made on this thread. They call themselves liberals. |
Keyblade
07.19.16 | ay dawg did u hear about the white nationalist who was armed to the teeth, sitting on 120 kilos (!) of TNT ready carry out 15 terror attacks at the Euro's last month before he got intercepted by police? must have missed that one in ur quest to examine the evidence
http://www.truthdig.com/images/eartothegrounduploads/gunsfrance_360.jpg |
Friday13th
07.19.16 | Crypt now I have to commend you for honesty lol |
Keyblade
07.19.16 | tfw zak is a middle eastern looking dude and wont be spared if shit hits the fan in europe |
guitarded_chuck
07.19.16 | lol |
Conmaniac
07.19.16 | Friday13th has no argument left so now he's trying to get Key to say he's a liberal lmao |
Cryptkeeper
07.19.16 | 'Many of these countries like Indonesia have not been touched by American foreign policy'
So, there's a shitload of Indonesians (or Indos as they call themselves) and they're like the chillest people. They drink, they smoke, they fuck, and those people also go back to Indonesia every once in a while on vacation. Indonesians and Turks are like the most Western muslims can be.
|
guitarded_chuck
07.19.16 | mfw people dont realize the biggest culprit is lack of education, resources, government corruption in these areas, not the fundamentals of the religion (though it's used as a means of corruption, as has been the case with other religions through history) |
guitarded_chuck
07.19.16 | "They call themselves liberals."
and thats a bad thing cause your daddy told you so amirite |
Cryptkeeper
07.19.16 | GOSHDARN COMMIEFUCKS |
bakkermaarten007
07.19.16 | "ay dawg did u hear about the white nationalist who was armed to the teeth, sitting on 120 kilos (!) of TNT ready carry out 15 terror attacks at the Euro's last month before he got intercepted by police? must have missed that one in ur quest to examine the evidence
"
And what does this prove? That white Europeans can be criminals too? Lol, it would be baffling if in countries that still have a predominant ethnic-European population, that every single act of terror are executed by muslims. Can't be too greedy now, lol |
guitarded_chuck
07.19.16 | LIDERALY THE DEVIL *shakes fist, chews straw* |
Cryptkeeper
07.19.16 | 'And what does this prove? That white Europeans can be criminals too? Lol, it would be baffling if in countries that still have a predominant ethnic-European population, that every single act of terror are executed by muslims. Can't be too greedy now, lol'
Remember when you said Islam had a monopoly on terrorism?
Of course you don't, you'd lie about saying that and quickly backtrack to edit your comments like the slimy fuck you are |
guitarded_chuck
07.19.16 | user bakker honestly thinks only muslims commit crime
you should all ignore user bakker |
Keyblade
07.19.16 | whew bakker comin thru with that yung NUANCE |
zakalwe
07.19.16 | It's alright key dude I'll be ideal for the resistance, infiltrate the fuckers Team America style. |
Conmaniac
07.19.16 | ok yeah he's added to the list as well |
bakkermaarten007
07.19.16 | "Remember when you said Islam had a monopoly on terrorism?"
No, I don't but I'm willing to believe you. You know what a monopoly is? It doesn't have to be absolute. It is enough if the other competing parties are marginalized
If you look at the relative percentage of muslims in Europe and their relative share of terror acts, and even their absolute share of terror attacks, you may well say that Islam has a monopoly.
('cause it has)
Where are the days when one could still have faith in some terror acts of Die Rote Armee Fraktion? Now, all the communists do is going frantic in unions. |
bakkermaarten007
07.19.16 | Aaaaand here we go again, people twisting my words as usual. |
Cryptkeeper
07.19.16 | I've always wondered why America doesn't massively use patriotic muslim fellows to infiltrate ISIS |
bakkermaarten007
07.19.16 | "I've always wondered why America doesn't massively use patriotic muslim fellows to infiltrate ISIS"
So suggestive. I could bite, but I won't for words will be twisted yet again. |
Conmaniac
07.19.16 | are your words really being twisted or are you just saying stupid shit? |
bakkermaarten007
07.19.16 | You have already formed and picked your answer. g'bye |
SgtShock
07.19.16 |
"About how do I know? It's simple."
Oh boy.
" If you have a demographic with not an insignificant amount of members who do acts of terror because of a lack of cultural compatibility with the host population, one way to neutralize that is cultural assimilation over time."
Maybe "incompatible cultures" would have an easier time "assimilating" (how about co existing, or is America's goal here to convert all citizens into conservative Christians of the palest shade?) if people like you didn't treat them as a deficiency that has to be bred out.
"So rapidly increasing the number of people that aren't assimilated in that demographic increases the likelihood of continuing terror from that demographic and short circuits the effectiveness of the assimilation. That's all I'm arguing."
Like I asked before: Source? I understand you already checked outta this thread (and you did so in a respectful way), but these are some pretty bold assertions about cultural dynamics and what causes incidents of terror. Furthermore, the policies you're proposing off of these shaky assumptions are pretty dire. They affect a lot of people: including leaving many to die, and making enemies out of Muslim allies the US does have. Some more evidence on this stuff would help your case. |
Keyblade
07.19.16 | "And what does this prove? That white Europeans can be criminals too?"
where is ur condemnation???
this was a right wing anti-immigrant, anti-Islamic extremist who shares similar views with some of u. what are u doing to combat these kind of ppl in ur community???
why are u not protesting against them???
not all right wingers???
not all white people??? |
bakkermaarten007
07.19.16 | "Like I asked before: Source? I understand you already checked outta this thread (and you did so in a respectful way), but these are some pretty bold assertions about cultural dynamics and what causes incidents of terror. Furthermore, the policies you're proposing off of these shaky assumptions are pretty dire. They affect a lot of people: including leaving many to die, and making enemies out of Muslim allies the US does have. Some more evidence on this stuff would help your case."
It wasn't me who you were arguing with, but brrrr the taste of red herring here is overwhelming... |
zakalwe
07.19.16 | Waffle waffle waffle, gesticulate, produce text, waffle, ponder, waffle, stroke chin, waffle.
WOULD YOU LIVE IN A PREDOMINANTLY MUSLIM AREA???? |
guitarded_chuck
07.19.16 | g'bye |
guitarded_chuck
07.19.16 | "WOULD YOU LIVE IN A PREDOMINANTLY MUSLIM AREA????"
not likely but not because of the religion
actually while typing that i have to mention i almost took a job in abu dhabi |
bakkermaarten007
07.19.16 | In answer to Keyblade: there is no book, no document whatsoever, no single thing that white etnic-Europeans adhere to and that leads to crime.
Nothing, you would have to go deep into subcultures like neo-nazism to find ethnic-Europeans who do.
(can you guess the rest already?)
There are many-MANY- muslims who adhere a book that is loaded with verses that contain hateful violent ideas.
Moreover, the ideal person for many muslims is the prophet Muhammad, who has killed many times those who did not agree with him.
So no, being white and European, one should not automatically feel compelled to publicly condemn such act of extreme-right terrorism, 'cause IT IS a given that we do. Such person doees not speak in our secular/ Christian/ Enlightened/whatever name.
But Islamic terrorists DO.
Do-you-grasp-this? |
Keyblade
07.19.16 | i live in a muslim country?
and grew up in a wouldnt say predominantly...but a pretty healthy amount of muslims in my area in canada?
not sure what that has to do with anything tho |
SgtShock
07.19.16 | Also, Ima dirty liberal. Got a bleeding heart because I believe inequality exists and should be addressed. It's a pretty extremist view, I know. :P But yeah, anyone else think it's crazy that Kupa had a degree in philosophy but was a conservative Christian? That's rare af |
Keyblade
07.19.16 | "actually while typing that i have to mention i almost took a job in abu dhabi"
ay im moving there soon. what kinda job? |
guitarded_chuck
07.19.16 | "Moreover, the ideal person for many muslims is the prophet Muhammad, who has killed many times those who did not agree with him."
Moreover, the ideal Christian by you is Muhammad Ali
g'byeg'byeg'byeg'byeg'byeg'byeg'byeg'b |
Keyblade
07.19.16 | lmao bakker that cognitive dissonance doe |
zakalwe
07.19.16 | Thank you chuck.
What if Abu Dhabi was in actual fact 55% of Philadelphia as a result of mass immigration and reluctance to 'merge' how would you feel? |
guitarded_chuck
07.19.16 | "ay im moving there soon. what kinda job?"
environmental impact analysis type work, an extremely well paid lab rat basically |
bakkermaarten007
07.19.16 | "lmao bakker that cognitive dissonance doe
"
So again you have nothing to say and continue to throw red herrings at me?
Not that I suspected you to agree whatsoever, I've only come across one muslims (by name only) who actually did |
Keyblade
07.19.16 | zak stop actin like u not part of that 55% lol |
bakkermaarten007
07.19.16 | let's bring some diversity with enlightened and christian values to the Middle-East. They ought to love their multiculture |
guitarded_chuck
07.19.16 | "What if Abu Dhabi was in actual fact 55% of Philadelphia as a result of mass immigration and reluctance to 'merge' how would you feel?"
i mean how would you feel in the moon were pink if were talking of completely useless hypotheticals with no application in a conversation of the current state of things ya dig |
Keyblade
07.19.16 | too many brown faces in my neighbourhood. white flight didnt work, so we need to find something else to do something about this |
zakalwe
07.19.16 | Fair enough mate.
Live there for a few years and see that 55% increase and I guarantee somewhere a little bit of your spirit will start to flutter and say "hang on a sec, this is shit. What happened?" |
Keyblade
07.19.16 | u guys need to just be real and say that u dont like all these swarthy foreigners coming in and stop hiding behind terrorism and shit. this thread already proves how flimsy that house of cards is |
bakkermaarten007
07.19.16 | "i mean how would you feel in the moon were pink if were talking of completely useless hypotheticals with no application in a conversation of the current state of things ya dig
"
The analogy was fair, but you knew only to deal with it by declaring it a useless hypothesis. It is not: for it has been done already in Europe. Enough material to form a grounded hypothesis. |
Keyblade
07.19.16 | wait, looks like we already got to that point |
SgtShock
07.19.16 | @Baak: Red herring? What irrelevant information was I adding to the discussion? Is this fallacy roulette where we just throw enough of them at each other until they stick? I'm asking for evidence that a blanket ban on Muslim immigrants would help the situation. That's a huge move. I think that's within my right to ask for some sources, here. |
bakkermaarten007
07.19.16 | Keyblade; time and time again we have said that race is irrelevant. It is the ideology.
But ofcourse when you see people with that ideology are almost always pale blonde swedes, ofcourse you are going to be reluctant if you see that more pale blonde swedes might come into here. |
guitarded_chuck
07.19.16 | the analogy was not fair because abu dhabi is it's own place but if you want to use it as an analogy abu dhabi is apparently an extremely safe and clean city even compared to the whitest most jesus dick sucking US OF AMERICA city so~~~ |
bakkermaarten007
07.19.16 | "the analogy was not fair because abu dhabi is it's own place but if you want to use it as an analogy abu dhabi is apparently an extremely safe and clean city even compared to the whitest most jesus dick sucking US OF AMERICA city so~~~"
Truly sounds like paradise. Can I bring my gay friends too? |
bakkermaarten007
07.19.16 | "Article 80 of the Abu Dhabi Penal Code makes sodomy punishable with imprisonment of up to 14 years"
[wikipedia]
Woops |
zakalwe
07.19.16 | Fuck me where did these people come from? *up goes another mosque* is the infastructure going to cope with this? *another two bedroom property houses 7* Fuck is up with that getup? Weird!!! *The old junior school gets 'rebranded' a faith school*
Oh there's a group of 'em on the corner with placards *unintelligible religious horseshit with a bit of hate speech thrown in cos why not*
You're left scratching your head I can tell you. |
Keyblade
07.19.16 | "Keyblade; time and time again we have said that race is irrelevant. It is the ideology."
does that mean ur also not cool with white australian muslim immigrants? or malaysian immigrants? or senegalese muslims? because to me it sounds like yall are just against middle easterners
"But ofcourse when you see people with that ideology are almost always pale blonde swedes, ofcourse you are going to be reluctant if you see that more pale blonde swedes might come into here."
or u can just not be xenophobic idk |
guitarded_chuck
07.19.16 | yeah and the murder rates in the us of a make it paradise amirite
|
Keyblade
07.19.16 | also lol @ 55% and all this fearmongering. reminds me of this chart
http://i.imgur.com/FCuNwJ5.png |
Cryptkeeper
07.19.16 | 'No, I don't but I'm willing to believe you. You know what a monopoly is? It doesn't have to be absolute. It is enough if the other competing parties are marginalized'
'the exclusive possession or control of the supply of or trade in a commodity or service'
DAMN BAKKER BACK AT IT AGAIN WITH THE STUPID ASS SHIT |
bakkermaarten007
07.19.16 | Well, Crypt your giving me the economic definition.
Now, look up a more general meaning will you?
You will probably feel stupid yourself now, instead of that 'stupid ass shit' |
Cryptkeeper
07.19.16 | '"i mean how would you feel in the moon were pink if were talking of completely useless hypotheticals with no application in a conversation of the current state of things ya dig
"''
I swear work the fucking quotations out man, are you so incompetent? |
Cryptkeeper
07.19.16 | 'the exclusive possession or control of something.'
http://www.dictionary.com/browse/monopoly
'complete ownership or control of something'
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/monopoly
You never know when you're wrong and to surrender a fight do you?
It just makes you look like the densent fucker in the neigbourhood. |
SgtShock
07.19.16 | Key, that chart was amazing, lol. |
zakalwe
07.19.16 | Yeah key lol hard at Ilford, and Luton and Southall and areas of Leicester and Bradford and Bow and Manor Park and Leyton and you know them other places where it's actually happened. |
Cryptkeeper
07.19.16 | 'also lol @ 55% and all this fearmongering. reminds me of this chart
http://i.imgur.com/FCuNwJ5.png'
SHARIA LAW ISLAMISATION OF EUROPE |
bakkermaarten007
07.19.16 | Crypt, okay you left 'service' away, good. Now look up control and note the absence of 'total' or 'absolute' but 'exclusive' instead.
This is ridiculous, I doubt you had good grades for your Dutch lessons. If you look around you can find plenty of examples of monopolies that are not absolute but close enough to be called that way.
Heck, even the Microsoft case back in the day was not absolute.
It's utterly ridiculous that I need to explain these things because you guys (many of you) are not well-versed in eloquent language. |
SgtShock
07.19.16 | Eloquent language. |
bakkermaarten007
07.19.16 | Most of all, it is telling that Cryptkeeper and others need to dissect every sentence to find something that they can use to launch their reply.
It says enough. It has been that way many times: people like zak and I offer enormous examples-->opposition finds small blemish and focus on that instead of looking at the massive pile right in front of them. |
Cryptkeeper
07.19.16 | 'Crypt, okay you left 'service' away, good. Now look up control and note the absence of 'total' or 'absolute' but 'exclusive' instead.'
'the exclusive possession or control of something.'
http://www.dictionary.com/browse/exclusive
'complete ownership or control of something'
http://www.dictionary.com/browse/complete
Is this what we call linguistic gymnastics? |
Cryptkeeper
07.19.16 | 'Eloquent language.'
Lmao only just noticed |
bakkermaarten007
07.19.16 | "http://i.imgur.com/FCuNwJ5.png'
SHARIA LAW ISLAMISATION OF EUROPE"
Ugh... The nazi party had around 8,5 mln members at the end of WWII. The total population was just under 70 mln.
You don't need a majority. An aggressive minority and a demoralized majority is enough. |
zakalwe
07.19.16 | And them statistics on that chart must be correct even though they don't account for the fact that a family of five entering the UK accounts for 'one entry' and the census which basis it's findings soley on who responds to the fucking thing and doesn't take into account its filled in by the two members of a house that is occupied by 7. |
Cryptkeeper
07.19.16 | 'Most of all, it is telling that Cryptkeeper and others need to dissect every sentence to find something that they can use to launch their reply'
See the problem here is that you keep saying stupid shit and people call you out on it.
You bang on people for bad spelling and a sub-par understanding of their second language and somehow tie that to their native tongue, but you're the kind of motherfucker to mess up your and you're so maybe you shouldn't be talking. |
bakkermaarten007
07.19.16 | "See the problem here is that you keep saying stupid shit and people call you out on it."
You're calling me out on things that aren't stupid. Which is stupid. |
SgtShock
07.19.16 | Bakk just compared the Muslim population to the Nazi party in WWII. Holy shit. I... I can't deal. |
bakkermaarten007
07.19.16 | "ut you're the kind of motherfucker to mess up your and you're so maybe you shouldn't be talking."
Angry again, huh? This language just tells me you don't understand half of what I say. Thus you declare it stupid. |
Cryptkeeper
07.19.16 | 'You're calling me out on things that aren't stupid. Which is stupid.'
I just can't |
Cryptkeeper
07.19.16 | 'Bakk just compared the Muslim population to the Nazi party in WWII. Holy shit. I... I can't deal.'
UR JUST DUMB FOR NOT UNDERSTANDING BET UR MAD YOU SJW CUCK |
zakalwe
07.19.16 | People like bak give me faith that not everyone has had their mind turned to mush by bullshit. I can only assume he's living it as well, seeing it. Experiencing it for himself.
Funny that. |
Keyblade
07.19.16 | "Yeah key lol hard at Ilford, and Luton and Southall and areas of Leicester and Bradford and Bow and Manor Park and Leyton and you know them other places where it's actually happened."
as per the 2011 census, these are the muslim demographics...in %
Ilford - 18.6%
Luton - 24.6
Southall - 25.8
Bradford - 24.7
Leyton - 30.2
Bow - 20.6
Manor Park - 45.4
so of all of these little towns u mentioned, only 1 even approaches ur paranoid claim of 55% |
bakkermaarten007
07.19.16 | "Bakk just compared the Muslim population to the Nazi party in WWII. Holy shit. I... I can't deal."
You can't deal because you automatically assume that all nazi members were genocidal freaks. A minority of them were, and the majority was silent and offered ideological support among the total population.
it is the same with muslims. No, don't be shocked. The radical among the muslims commit crimes that are as horrific if not more horrific than the holocaust, going from sex slaves (even children), to burning alive and decapitation.
The majority does nothing but adheres the same ideology and thus offers support;
Yes, yes, scream away: racist, bigot, bla bla bla; You will find out during your lifetime, that I warned you in vain. |
Keyblade
07.19.16 | jesus christ |
bakkermaarten007
07.19.16 | @Crypt: everytime you feel the heat of my arguments, you back away and drag in some irrelevant matters. Like it has always been. Don't expect for one second that I'm impressed or fooled by that. |
Conmaniac
07.19.16 | pretty sure the majority of muslims speak out against the extremist muslims. I see it all the time but no one cares because that isn't newsworthy is it? |
Keyblade
07.19.16 | yo bakker have u heard of ur christian homies in the Central African Republic who regularly enslave, behead, forcefully convert and cannibalize people (ironically muslims) in the name of Christianity? |
bakkermaarten007
07.19.16 | "pretty sure the majority of muslims speak out against the extremist muslims. I see it all the time but no one cares"
I know the way your kind 'sees' this: 1. Terror attack. 2. 10, 50, maybe even 500 muslims speak out with banners 'THIS IS NOT ISLAM'. 3. Your kind can close your eyes agian, waiting for the next shot of reassurance followed after the next attack.
It will go on and on and on and on... |
zakalwe
07.19.16 | I've already said about the census key dude.
And seriously lol at them figures. |
StarlessCore
07.19.16 | islamic terrorism very bad
some muslimsare extremeists
very few are active extremists
there are extremeists in every religion throughout history/time
not every muslim is a terrorist
not every muslim condones the extremist anti-west violent terrorism
thats it, nothing more to it. extremists exist within every religion |
bakkermaarten007
07.19.16 | "yo bakker have u heard of ur christian homies in the Central African Republic who regularly enslave, behead, forcefully convert and cannibalize people (ironically muslims) in the name of Christianity?"
Bastards, aren't they? But it is not: a) Europe. I live in Europe not Africa, tough luck. Will deal with that after Europe is safe. and b) in a continent like Africa that has been doing genocides between their peoples for as long as we can remember, I doubt that Christianity is the only faction playing there....No, actually I know.
|
Conmaniac
07.19.16 | same exact thing happened after Pearl Harbor with the japanese Bakker and look what happened then. the people with your kind of attitude helped put thousands of innocent people in internment camps for years |
Keyblade
07.19.16 | lmfao i love it when bakker puts on his nuance glasses when it's white people or christians in question |
Conmaniac
07.19.16 | yet when its muslim he's quick to jump to religion |
Keyblade
07.19.16 | he moved those goalposts with the QUICKNESS |
guitarded_chuck
07.19.16 | "I doubt that Christianity is the only faction playing there....No, actually I know."
but islam is the only factor when it helps your argument amirite
go away kid |
bakkermaarten007
07.19.16 | Ever single time the defenders of Islam only need 1 example of a crime in name of Christianity (it doesn't even have to be in the West!) and they are satisfied. Likewise they only need 1 example of good muslims and they can assure that Islam is peaceful.
On the other hand: shower them with crimes and violations of human rights in their face, and they will remain idle. Possibly accompagnied by cries of disbelief that someone can be so 'racist/ intolerant/ Choose your pick' |
SgtShock
07.19.16 | "You can't deal because you automatically assume that all nazi members were genocidal freaks. A minority of them were, and the majority was silent and offered ideological support among the total population.
it is the same with muslims. No, don't be shocked. The radical among the muslims commit crimes that are as horrific if not more horrific than the holocaust, going from sex slaves (even children), to burning alive and decapitation.
The majority does nothing but adheres the same ideology and thus offers support"
This hurts my soul. |
StarlessCore
07.19.16 | religion itself is racist and intolerant its in no way limited to muslims even in todays society |
StarlessCore
07.19.16 | "it is the same with muslims. No, don't be shocked. The radical among the muslims commit crimes that are as horrific if not more horrific than the holocaust"
any idea that modern radical islamic terrorism is as bad as the holocaust is ignorant repulsive false inaccurate moronic I can continue |
Keyblade
07.19.16 | "I've already said about the census key dude.
And seriously lol at them figures."
i dont get it dude, are u really salty that a few areas in england have a 20% (gasp!) muslim population? embrace the diversity man
in inner city toronto where i grew up everybody says Wallahi and other muslim slang, it's legit part of our lexicon...along with the other words borrowed from the various other cultures in the best city in the world
https://www.ovoforums.com/threads/toronto-slang-ovo-vocab-catalog.2517/ |
Conmaniac
07.19.16 | he uses the holocaust as an analogy for modern terrorism but he fails to see the irony...his stance of categorizing an entire religion as the problem is exactly why the holocaust happened in the first place |
bakkermaarten007
07.19.16 | "embrace the diversity man"
It's not diversity when you see that there is only a rise in muslim inhabitants and muslim culture.
One way direction |
Cryptkeeper
07.19.16 | 'Yes, yes, scream away: racist, bigot, bla bla bla; You will find out during your lifetime, that I warned you in vain.'
'everytime you feel the heat of my arguments'
'I know the way your kind 'sees' this'
Either seek help or jump of a flat |
Cryptkeeper
07.19.16 | 'It's not diversity when you see that there is only a rise in muslim inhabitants and muslim culture.
One way direction'
I wish my community would be become more diverse.
And with more diverse I mean I want more white people |
guitarded_chuck
07.19.16 | "he uses the holocaust as an analogy for modern terrorism but he fails to see the irony...his stance of categorizing an entire religion as the problem is exactly why the holocaust happened in the first place"
also - the holocaust was committed by white christian europeans
also - he praises muhammad ali as an ideal christian so what else needs to be said
guy is literally a fucking moron i wish everyone would stop entertaining him |
bakkermaarten007
07.19.16 | "his stance of categorizing an entire religion as the problem is exactly why the holocaust happened in the first place"
The holocaust is in reverse, against 'infidels'. If you hadn't noticed. In ISIS-occupied areas Christians, Jhezidi and other subgroups are getting exterminated. Here, it is in the form of a little terror strike from time to time...
|
Cryptkeeper
07.19.16 | 'Ever single time the defenders of Islam only need 1 example of a crime in name of Christianity (it doesn't even have to be in the West!) and they are satisfied. Likewise they only need 1 example of good muslims and they can assure that Islam is peaceful.'
You completely fail to see we take your way of thinking and tendency to overreact and jump to conclusions and apply it to any other form or terrorism that doesn't involve muslims.
Your ignorance is a sight to behold. |
zakalwe
07.19.16 | It's defo higher than 20% I mean it really is.
And like I mentioned there's no multiculturalism to embrace unless you're a total dumb cunt whose moved in from the shires on daddys hedge fund and lived in a bubble.
|
bakkermaarten007
07.19.16 | "also - the holocaust was committed by white christian europeans"
Nazis for the most parted LOATHED Christianity. Just like communists did. Such a stupid thing to say.
You're calling me a moron after saying something moronic. hah. But it's sad really |
Typhoon24
07.19.16 | im not even to the end of reading all the 7/19 comments so but I gotta say damn we really outdid ourselves today. |
Keyblade
07.19.16 | i dont think bakker sees his blatant hypocrisy so imma try to break it down for him to try to help him out
it's not about just 1 example. you make the claim that muslims are the -only- ones who commit acts of terror in the name of religion. all it takes is -1- example to disprove that
or that muslims are unique in that they are inherently more barbaric and commit acts that are reminiscent of nazi germany. again, all it takes is 1 example to show this isn't true
if christians in africa are using their religion to justify terrorism (when it's all really political in nature), why is it different for muslims? why do u not extend the same understanding to muslims? do u not see ur hilarious bias? |
Sinternet
07.19.16 | is bakker still not banned yet |
guitarded_chuck
07.19.16 | he is that type of person whos ignorance is so far gone that he has absolutely no hope of ever seeing the light
my lesson to any of those reading this post out here is to simply ignore this type of people in life because there is no benefit for you you'll only get frustrated and waste your time |
Cryptkeeper
07.19.16 | And you still haven't adressed any of the socio-political and financial causes of the rise of extremist terrorist Islam.
Moving the goalposts miles and miles and just ignoring a still undisputed claim made in this discussion, you have no idea how to converse with anyone, and I can't say I'm surprised. |
bakkermaarten007
07.19.16 | Eventually these debates or whatever they are don't really matter. Reality will catch up with you soon enough. Possibly one or two family members will die first, but eventually eyes will open. |
guitarded_chuck
07.19.16 | "Nazis for the most parted LOATHED Christianity. "
???????????????????????????????????
you are even more oblivious than i imagined |
bakkermaarten007
07.19.16 | Golden rule: if some well-known users disagree hard and start asking for bans I know I was on a roll. |
Cryptkeeper
07.19.16 | @Key don't bother, it filters anything it doesn't agree with and just doesn't respond to it. |
Cryptkeeper
07.19.16 | 'Eventually these debates or whatever they are don't really matter. Reality will catch up with you soon enough. Possibly one or two family members will die first, but eventually eyes will open.'
|
Keyblade
07.19.16 | "And like I mentioned there's no multiculturalism to embrace unless you're a total dumb cunt whose moved in from the shires on daddys hedge fund and lived in a bubble."
man, why cant u keep ur old dude who's allergic to change schtick to just music :[ |
Cryptkeeper
07.19.16 | Please seek help |
bakkermaarten007
07.19.16 | "you are even more obvious than i imagined"
Chuck: time for some schooling again.
Hitler did not get rid of Christianity for one reason and only one reason: he feared the people might turn against him for it was still too strong.
Rosenber, the party's intellectual, tried to create a 'nazi-religion' to put in place of Christianity after it was eradicated. However, Hitler felt that people would never accept such foolishness (it was quite pompous and cringe worthy accordingly) |
guitarded_chuck
07.19.16 | Eventually these debates or whatever they are don't really matter. Reality will catch up with you soon enough. Possibly one or two family members will die first, but eventually eyes will open. |
Keyblade
07.19.16 | almost sounds like a threat |
anarchistfish
07.19.16 | Fucking idiot kid |
guitarded_chuck
07.19.16 | Hitler was by most accounts not a Christian in private but in public he was and Christianity was absolutely a central part of Nazism
f
u
c
k
o
f
f |
bakkermaarten007
07.19.16 | Well, it's sad but true. You are so comfortbly living in your artifical bubbles that you just cannot grasp that there is an immens existential threat lurking around the corner. To accept that truth, is to accept uncomfortable thoughts, living a little more uncomfortably and having doubt. |
StarlessCore
07.19.16 | there were sects of denouncing all religion within nazism but like
loathed christianity? have you ever taken a 6th grade history class? hitler persecuted pretty much everyone, and its true that the church opposed the third reich, but this is just an ignorant comment, so many nazi's were christian, some in the higher levels denounced it, some really didn't, and most of all, hitler killed like every other type of people in droves (including christians) but was known for kind of ignoring christianity especially in the beginning. There was an anti Christianity sentiment that developed in nazi germany, but the statement "nazis for the most part loathed christianity" is just misguided, lacks context, oh and youre dumb |
guitarded_chuck
07.19.16 | TIL the Nazi's used Christianity as a means of gaining and maintaining support from the German people and that's okay but when ISIS uses Islam to do the same shit it's less send all Muslim's to Mars and nuke them or some shit
you're a walking fucking hypocritical immature closed minded piece of dogshit kid and i hope you know it, the fact everyone here basically says the same thing should really start to register with you at some point, one can only hope, or like i said maybe you really are too far, fucking sad |
guitarded_chuck
07.19.16 | yeah bakker denying the nazis were christian is his low point no one can take anything he says seriously thereafter, clearly a biased racist piece of shit |
bakkermaarten007
07.19.16 | "Hitler was by most accounts not a Christian in private but in public he was and Christianity was absolutely a central part of Nazism"
Not at all. Christianity was controlled by nazism and likely some of the cleric favoured nazism, but never was it a central part of Nazism. Christianity as a whole was a nuisance which Hitler talked about many times. Read: Hitler's Table Talk. his dealing with Christianity was one of his fav subjects.
Do you honestly want me to make you feel stupid again? I'm so sure about this I would bet my whole house on it. |
StarlessCore
07.19.16 | @chuck you are definitely right but theres no denying the tension between the church and Nazism. But its a moot point, everybody was on their shit list, it was an extremeist nationalist anti anti everything movement. Christianity however was never the focus or even one of the focuses, it just happened to be there. Nazisim in theory was supposed to universally denounce it, but so many nazis were protestant |
Keyblade
07.19.16 | confirmation bias is a hell of a drug |
StarlessCore
07.19.16 | to reiterate tho, yea guitarded impossible to deny the large amount of nazis who were actually protestant/christian/wjatever the fuck and that is perhaps what downplayed christianity as a nazi target, the other targets were simply acknowledged far more, yes there was tension between the church and the third reich on philosophical grounds, but the statement nazis generally loathed christianity is just misguided |
bakkermaarten007
07.19.16 | Just read Hitler's table talk or look for quotes if you can find them. I'm handing you the original source, so thank me later.
There are a lot of misconceptions about Christianity in Nazi-Germany but the only truth is this: Hitler tolerated Christianity just as long as was needed before he could destroy it. |
guitarded_chuck
07.19.16 | yeah starless and just like greater islam and muslims as a whole deny ISIS, greater christianity denied nazism
same shit but zomg dont criticize christianity / dont not put all muslims into the same extremist basket |
guitarded_chuck
07.19.16 | whats your fucking point bakker i literally just said that
do you think all of the leaders of the islamic state in their own minds 100% subscribe to islam or they just use it as a means of garnering control and power like hitler did with christianity |
bakkermaarten007
07.19.16 | Chuck: I urge you to read Hitler's Table Talk. I'll gladly forgive you your insults.
Hitler said some things to cater to Christians publically, but his plan was to get rid of it. |
bakkermaarten007
07.19.16 | "whats your fucking point bakker i literally just said that "
Then why on earth did you start arguing?? |
StarlessCore
07.19.16 | "Hitler said some things to cater to Christians publically, but his plan was to get rid of it."
ok but your statement most nazi's hated christianity is still moronic and misguided, Hitler did not represent every single nazi in his brigade lol |
anarchistfish
07.19.16 | Have you researched the origins of these attackers beyond "they are brown"? Since you love to cherry pick your own examples |
bakkermaarten007
07.19.16 | From one of Christa Schroeder's letters to her friend: "It is all so enlightening what the boss says when e.g. he explains that Christianity with its lies and hypocrisy has held Western humanity back 2,000 years in its development – from the cultural standpoint. I really must start making notes afterwards about what the boss said, but the sessions last a ridiculously long time and one is by then – if not actually ready to drop – well at least so enervated and bereft of energy as to not feel like writing."
I could quote from Hitler's Table Talk too ,but I only have it in print. |
anarchistfish
07.19.16 | I.e. What narratives the media promotes |
guitarded_chuck
07.19.16 | bakker: i urge to respond to my comments as opposed to ignoring things you dont agree with
this is probably a major problem you have in life if im reading your personality correctly, just some advice |
anarchistfish
07.19.16 | Yeah this graph
http://commonsenseatheism.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/darkages.gif
Is mocked by the vast majority of historians |
bakkermaarten007
07.19.16 | "ok but your statement most nazi's hated christianity is still moronic and misguided,"
No, it is not. It is only so, if you think that every German during Nazi-Germany was a Nazi-German. Most didn't care enough or sympathised just enough to accept Nazism, but they weren't nazis. Technically: only party members are Nazis and it was these people who I was talking of.
Then there was also a part of people, like some generals who wanted to be on good terms with Hitler, that joined the Nazi-party. But strictly speaking: a radical Nazi was not Christian. Many radical nazis were paganistic tbh |
bakkermaarten007
07.19.16 | "Yeah this graph
http://commonsenseatheism.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/darkages.gif
Is mocked by the vast majority of historians"
Communism didn't do so good either. |
bakkermaarten007
07.19.16 | "
this is probably a major problem you have in life if im reading your personality correctly, just some advice"
Lol, you miss important parts of what I type. You see things like 'Radical Islam ...' and you stop reading |
guitarded_chuck
07.19.16 | "No, it is not. It is only so, if you think that every German during Nazi-Germany was a Nazi-German. Most didn't care enough or sympathised just enough to accept Nazism, but they weren't nazis. Technically: only party members are Nazis and it was these people who I was talking of."
but every muslim wants to throw every not muslim into a gas chamber amirite
|
bakkermaarten007
07.19.16 | "Have you researched the origins of these attackers beyond "they are brown"? Since you love to cherry pick your own examples"
Did you read your version in Pravda? Ugh, away with your vile communist beliefs. |
guitarded_chuck
07.19.16 | AMIRITE BAKKER |
bakkermaarten007
07.19.16 | "but every muslim wants to throw every not muslim into a gas chamber amirite"
Never ever said that. I said that they adhere the same ideology and therefore offer support, a foundation.
|
anarchistfish
07.19.16 | "Communism didn't do so good either."
Wow someone give this guy a phd |
bakkermaarten007
07.19.16 | "Wow someone give this guy a phd"
You support the ideology and mock its deaths by using the Soviet symbol unashamedly... |
guitarded_chuck
07.19.16 | you never said it, you just explicitly imply it, over and over and over again, day after week after month, in many threads
tell me how sad of an existence you live irl |
guitarded_chuck
07.19.16 | tell me again how you look up to the great christian muhammad ali |
bakkermaarten007
07.19.16 | "you never said it, you just explicit imply it, over and over and over again, day after week after month, in many threads"
Oh, you are going to tell me what I imply as long as it suits your own ideas of me huh? Your ideas of me are wrong. You are arguing against someone who values the European cultures and its people and their future. In this, I see it as a task of the utmost importance to make people aware of the dangers that they cannot or will not see. |
guitarded_chuck
07.19.16 | if you value the well-being of your continent you will remove yourself from it immediately if not sooner, your irrationality and negativity serves no useful purpose |
bakkermaarten007
07.19.16 | *Sigh*. Luckily for you, Chuck, I won't leave you! I'll stay with you to make you see, yes yes |
guitarded_chuck
07.19.16 | luckily for me i dont live on your continent and dont have to deal with the ever increasing xenophobia therein
have fun |
anarchistfish
07.19.16 | Game's over guys. Decades of carefully crafted research all for nothing because bakker can't understand epistemology nor irony. |
bakkermaarten007
07.19.16 | But I still care.
Have fun as well |
bakkermaarten007
07.19.16 | "Game's over guys. Decades of carefully crafted research all for nothing because bakker can't understand either epistemology or irony."
I Would say I care for you as well. But you're a communist and thus utterly destructive to society. Let's just hope you'll get back on track. That being said, France has been infested by marxism/ communism ever since WWII, so low hopes. |
GhostOfSarcasticBtrd
07.19.16 | Only gonna post once here hit-and-run style... mainly for the benefit of Kairi because we've never gotten along and I love seeing people defend Islam.
Muslim progressiveness, modern edition:
- A large number of Muslim nations have the death penalty for gay sex (Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Iran, Afghanistan, Mauritania, Sudan, and northern Nigeria), almost all others have prison sentences for it. Gay marriage isn't legal in one Muslim nation on planet Earth.
- If you wanna talk trans people, just pretend Muslims don't exist if you want any sort of hope of convincing yourself Muslims are enlightened. Atheism is criminal in most of the Muslim world as well... sweet.
- >70% of Muslims in the Middle East and Asia wish to codify Sharia law. (http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-overview/)
- 90% of Middle East Muslims believe a wife must obey her husband and >50% believe she should be mandated to veil her face. (http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-overview/)
- Only 33% of Muslims in the Middle East and North Africa think a woman should be able to get a divorce from her husband. (same link)
- Half of Muslims deny evolution. (same link)
- More than 10% of BRITISH Muslims say those drawing cartoons of Mohammed should be attacked, and a quarter say that such attacks on drawers can be justified in some cases. (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/11433776/Quarter-of-British-Muslims-sympathise-with-Charlie-Hebdo-terrorists.html) These numbers are waaaaay higher in the Muslim world.
- The penalty for apostasy under Islam remains death. Progressive stuff.
I love Islam and it's treatment of women, LGBT, and secular belief. It's a true beacon of goodness and warmth in this cold dark world.
|
guitarded_chuck
07.19.16 | Beyonce Lemonade
Later generations' history students will, after being asked to provide a major example for
the downfall of morality and culture in the twentieth/ 21st century, in large numbers cite
this album's title and culprit for the making of it. In this regard, it is invaluable to
future historians.
1.5
04.28.16
Kanye West The Life of Pablo
It's always great when something like this comes out, to adjust my objectivity rating
2.0
02.14.16 |
bakkermaarten007
07.19.16 | Yes Chuck, great isn't it? (not the albums, those are shit) |
Typhoon24
07.19.16 | we still talking about muslims? because the quran's got totally evil verses and not enough people speak out against the verses themselves. kids are being taught every word of it is true.
thankfully most Christians and jews nowadays cherry pick what part of their religions they wanna teach and think is good (usually in line with modern morality) so rigid fundamentalism is relatively uncommon. wish I could say the same for my muslim family members... :( |
LambsBread
07.19.16 | WOULD YOU LIVE IN A PREDOMINANTLY MUSLIM AREA????"
not likely but not because of the religion"
Dear god. Regressive leftists are going to be the downfall of humanity. |
LambsBread
07.19.16 | Is there anything more hypocritical and childish than supporting massive Muslim immigration to OTHER COUNTRIES when you wouldn't even last a day in virtually any Muslim country.
Gee it's so hard to be tolerant of people living thousands of miles away from you. These Canadians are enlightened gods the way they coexist with their 95 percent white population, with more living space than any other country, remarkable. All we need are people like tredau to rule the world based off their rugged experience of growing up in an all white suburb. |
LambsBread
07.19.16 | No, you are just an immature child who doesn't even know the most common terms being used in modern political dialogue. |
Conmaniac
07.19.16 | ayyy Lambs is here great |
Futures
07.19.16 | learn how to spell tongue |
Keyblade
07.19.16 | lol hill not even gonna lie that was funny . this is why we need a real nigga from the dot to become PM |
LambsBread
07.19.16 | I hate steven crowder but keep grasping at straws. |
RosaParks
07.19.16 | kinda surprised the clit tongue still visits this website to convince not a single person that his regressive views are good in any way |
guitarded_chuck
07.19.16 | "These Canadians are enlightened gods the way they coexist"
thanks bro
btw we've let in like 10x the number of immigrants since the syrian refugee crisis as the usa despite our much smaller population and economy and have had ZERO issues
my neighbors are one of the refugee families and they are sweethearts super nice have brought me over food a few times |
RosaParks
07.19.16 | "I hate steven crowder"
is he a le cuck |
guitarded_chuck
07.19.16 | "tredau"
good attempt 3/10 |
LambsBread
07.19.16 | "Do people motivated by Islamic extremism commit atrocities? Of course.
Do people motivated by Christian extremism commit atrocities? Just as much so, it just isn't painted that way."
This is blatantly false. There are multiple times, probably 15x, more Islam extremist terrorist attacks today, you would have to be completely oblivious to not know this...Oh and there are 10 MUSLIM nations where gay people are MURDERED LEGALLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (in b4 'but hey... Christians don't want to give them cake!... same thing')Oh and there are about 75% of Muslims who think you need to be killed if you leave the Religion, or draw a cartoon of Muhammad. Oh and if a woman shows her face in public, most Muslims would beat her.
Do some fucking research before patting yourself on the back for blindly being for "tolerance".
'hey, let them all in! It's not my country, I support tolerance regardless of if i'm being tolerant of intolerance, all so I can have a "Tolerance!" or "COEXIST!" bumper sticker on my Prius!'.
Yes, regressive leftists will be the downfall of western civilization, if you don't know that you literally don't even know what a Muslim is. |
LambsBread
07.19.16 | Sorry but Canada isn't noteworthy enough for me to remember how to spell their irrelevant PM's name. Only time you hear about that clown is when he's patting himself on the back for shutting down energy industries. |
guitarded_chuck
07.19.16 | regressive leftists willnfall of western civilization, if you don't know that you literally don't even know what a Mus be the dowlim is |
guitarded_chuck
07.19.16 | if canada isnt noteworthy why do you go on and on about it constantly
check my shout box for another example if anyones interested |
Keyblade
07.19.16 | " if you don't know that you literally don't even know what a Muslim is."
damn think this is where i stop fuckin with u :[ |
Conmaniac
07.19.16 | I feel like you are forgetting why they are immigrants in the first place...maybe it's to leave all the bullshit that muslim run countries have (stuff that you listed)? Cherry picking muslim run countries is kind of unfair because muslims within those countries often don't support the ridiculous laws that are there in the first place. just a thought |
Keyblade
07.19.16 | tfw uganda instated the death penalty for homosexuality after heavy influence from american evangelists |
bakkermaarten007
07.19.16 | muzzlelimbs |
LambsBread
07.19.16 | shorter chuck:
"hey bro, we've decreased our white population from 95% to 94.99 percent% up here in the artic wasteland known as Canada and have had NO problems. Maybe you sheltered Americans could learn a thing or two and flood your country with 20 million more illegal immigrants and people who overwhelmingly support persecuting gay people, atheists and women." |
LambsBread
07.19.16 | "if canada isnt noteworthy why do you go on and on about it constantly" becuause delusional and arrogant regressive leftists like you think the world would be a perfect place if Americans "wisened up" and imitated the policies of an irrelevant and virtually powerless nation. |
guitarded_chuck
07.19.16 | "artic"
decent attempt 4/10 |
LambsBread
07.19.16 | Nevermind the fact that Saddam Hussein would still be in power feeding wives to his son's dogs on their wedding night if not for the US, committing mass genocide, torturing people every single day... no that doesn't matter. What matters is the Canadians let a few war refugees into their vastly underpopulated land. What heroes. |
SgtShock
07.19.16 | I got off this crazy train when Muslims got compared to Nazis in WW2. Some people just don't have any humanity. Get some help, dude. |
bakkermaarten007
07.19.16 | "tfw uganda instated the death penalty for homosexuality after heavy influence from american evangelists
"
When you only have examples from Africa- regarding Christianity -to make for the case of Islam in the West, it is rather a telltale sign.
I should thank you: thank you user keyblade. |
LambsBread
07.19.16 | I forgot how pointless debate is on this site. No one can do anything but point out typos and repeat the same lame ass memes that were played out years ago. |
LambsBread
07.19.16 | Did anyone actually compare Muslims to the Nazis or are you just a typical regressive leftist using strawman arguments to deflect from the fact you have no knowledge of Islam whatsoever (IE can't even reconcile your views with the most banal polls). |
guitarded_chuck
07.19.16 | "torturing people every single day"
are you referring to usofa here or |
bakkermaarten007
07.19.16 | Anyone defending Islam: how long would it take for you to draw the logical conclusion if this video were real?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHEk_kaXmTk
It wouldn't take you llong to assert that the problem is Christianity. Now reflect upon that. |
bakkermaarten007
07.19.16 | "Did anyone actually compare Muslims to the Nazis or are you just a typical regressive leftist using strawman arguments to deflect from the fact you have no knowledge of Islam whatsoever"
I did. What about it? |
LambsBread
07.19.16 | https://whyevolutionistrue.files.wordpress.com/2013/05/homosexuality.png?w=330&h=860
in b4 people ignore this blatant fact^ and try to change the topic with another played out meme and/or sarcasm. |
anarchistfish
07.19.16 | "I Would say I care for you as well. But you're a communist and thus utterly destructive to society. Let's just hope you'll get back on track. That being said, France has been infested by marxism/ communism ever since WWII, so low hopes."
I didn't say you were the one carefully crafting anything omg |
DrGonzo1937
07.19.16 | Anyone in America that thought we have problems for leaving the EU will be in a shitstorm of trouble themselves if that whack job gets in the White House. |
LambsBread
07.19.16 | ""torturing people every single day"
are you referring to usofa here or"
Look everyone its a played out meme and/or dimwitted sarcasm. Thanks for your contributions to the debate chuck. |
Keyblade
07.19.16 | i find it funny that it's always the dudes who are normally against feminism, LGBT rights, minority rights etc and decry all that shit as sjw nonsense who suddenly champion these causes when using it as a convenient stick to beat muslims from third world countries with
i remember the site culturalmarxismdotcom had an entire homophobic section dedicated to LGBT ppl (if ur not familiar with the cultural marxism conspiracy theory, it's basically white dudes whining about how western civilization is being subverted by feminism, multiculturalism and homosexuality), but their Islam section had an article chastising some muslim cleric for being homophobic lmao
or that time that ProudToBe video by youtube was uploaded and had a 80% dislike ratio and was filled with homophobic comments decrying cultural marxism and the destruction of western civilization and all that good stuff lol http://i.imgur.com/TAWwEnG.png . just be real and say we dont want u in our countries because fuck u, stop pussyfooting |
SgtShock
07.19.16 | Lamb: Youre right, it isn't a debate. It legit sounds like a white power rally in here. Stormfront forums are that way, people -----> |
Keyblade
07.19.16 | "When you only have examples from Africa- regarding Christianity -to make for the case of Islam in the West, it is rather a telltale sign."
umm the discussion isnt about the west, but 3rd world middle eastern countries, please keep up. i think semi-developed countries like uganda are a more than fair comparison |
LambsBread
07.19.16 | If you can't do anything but call him a wackjob it indicates you can't debate any of his policies. That is precisely why Trump has done so well to this point. He's making arguments that lefists can't debate ("uh, maybe we should actually enforce our immigration laws), so they call him a meanie.
They think they look intelligent by saying some various-form of meanie (racist, bigot, misognist, homophobe, transphobe) etc... really anyone with any basic maturity sees all they are doing is namecalling. |
LambsBread
07.19.16 | @sgtshock try responding to the basic fact that I just proved (muslims are homophobes) and stop with the childish namecalling and/or "back to stormfront" played-out meme, where you have no argument [2]
So sad you regressive leftists can't even imagine up your own snark. You actually repeat the same shit that has been said for years like its not corny. |
bakkermaarten007
07.19.16 | @ keyblade: I find it funny that you think feminists or SJW's are helping gay and/or minority rights. We do care. An d may I point out to you, user keyblade, that it is you who just again sought out a stick to beat with?
"i remember the site culturalmarxismdotcom had an entire homophobic section dedicated to LGBT ppl"
That is the site that speaks for everyone who is against feminism, Islam, ...
It is a bit our Quran you say? /s
(it is a shit site and I already told you it's shit and it's not helping any cause)
But keyblade: answer the question regarding that parody video? Would you or would you not say- in the case that it was real- that Christianity is the problem? |
LambsBread
07.19.16 | "i find it funny that it's always the dudes who are normally against feminism, LGBT rights, minority rights etc and decry all that shit as sjw nonsense who suddenly champion these causes when using it as a convenient stick to beat muslims from third world countries with"
You just made this up / assumed it based on anecdotal experience because it sounds convenient to your argument and you are trying to change the subject from Islam being blatantly homophobic. You used ad hominem argument and anecdotal evidence in a two sentence argument... that's when you know your argument is awful.
https://whyevolutionistrue.files.wordpress.com/2013/05/homosexuality.png?w=330&h=860
WHen you guys want to pull your head out of the sand and deal with this reality^ let us know. The adults have better things to do than sit around and read childish played-out memes.
|
bakkermaarten007
07.19.16 | "umm the discussion isnt about the west, but 3rd world middle eastern countries, please keep up. i think semi-developed countries like uganda are a more than fair comparison"
Euhm, no. Don't try maneuvering out of this.
1) the discussion is about an ideology's influence that stems from the middle-east, in the west.
2) uganda is not a semi-developed country. It is a third world country for Christ sakes. I know it doesn't help your argument, but it is in fact still a third world country |
Keyblade
07.19.16 | i think i was clear that it was an anecdotal observance |
bakkermaarten007
07.19.16 | Thus you seek a country where there are crimes in name of Christianity: it happens to be third world shithole. Inconvenient |
bakkermaarten007
07.19.16 | keyblade: look at the video please. And just for one moment disregard the parody and think it is real. Would you or would you not say that Christianity is the ideological culprit? |
SgtShock
07.19.16 | I asked for evidence that a mass ban on Islamic immigrants would help the US. I'm still waiting. |
LambsBread
07.19.16 | I'm not even Christian, but there's absolutely nothing inconsistent about Christians being anti-homosexual-marriage and being anti-Islam (AKA pro death/incarceration for gay people).
Islam is literally defended by people who haven't read a single poll, study or book on Islam, let alone even skimmed the Quran, who pat themselves on the back for their "Coexist" bumperstickers.
These people... I truly can't stand them. They want to act like they are enlightened heroes, in reality they are childish and haven't even taken the most basic steps to inform themselves... they haven't even made any attempt to live in reality.
Delusionally preaching pacifism is not a noble thing once you realize you live in a violent world. Most of you are just absurdly sheltered. |
SgtShock
07.19.16 | Also, please don't act like you're above name calling. You've called me regressive leftist in the perjorative at least three times in the past twenty minutes. |
bakkermaarten007
07.19.16 | "I asked for evidence that a mass ban on Islamic immigrants would help the US. I'm still waiting."
Wait until you'll have evidence that it could've helped. |
Keyblade
07.19.16 | "1) the discussion is about an ideology's influence that stems from the middle-east, in the west."
no. the argument was that X countries in the middle east do Y as a result of islam. the response is that there are Z countries in other parts of the 3rd world who also do Y because of religion. also the cogent part of my point that u predictably missed is that it was an american behind that law...u know, as in from the civilized west?
"2) uganda is not a semi-developed country. It is a third world country for Christ sakes. I know it doesn't help your argument, but it is in fact still a third world country"
u ever been to uganda, or anywhere outside of europe for that matter? it's not a 3rd world country comparable to say iraq or yemen. maybe semi-developed isnt fully accurate but that wasnt my point, idk what it has to do with anything...i was just trying to describe it from what i know,it has nothing to do with my argument lol. fine, for the sake of argument we can call it a 3rd world country. what difference does it make, we're still comparing 3rd world countries? |
LambsBread
07.19.16 | The single stupidest thing I have ever seen in my life: After A Muslim killed 50 gay people in Orlando and pledged allegiance to the Islamic State...
There was a Democrat rally with a rainbow-gay-pride banner, hundreds of people marching and holding a banner saying "LGBT against republican hate".
I am honestly speechless. This sort of delusion is absolutely mind blowing. It's literally on the level of pacificists during WW2. |
Keyblade
07.19.16 | "keyblade: look at the video please. And just for one moment disregard the parody and think it is real. Would you or would you not say that Christianity is the ideological culprit?"
what video? |
bakkermaarten007
07.19.16 | "Islam is literally defended by people who haven't read a single poll, study or book on Islam, let alone even skimmed the Quran, who pat themselves on the back for their "Coexist" bumperstickers."
Well, those persons and then there's also those who seek to defend Islam in their aims for a new proletariat to cater to (voters). The former ones are the inhabitants of lala-land (soon to become self-destructive land), the latter ones are the tyrants; the islamosocialists/cultural marxists, however you want to call it. |
bakkermaarten007
07.19.16 | This video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHEk_kaXmTk |
LambsBread
07.19.16 | ""I asked for evidence that a mass ban on Islamic immigrants would help the US. I'm still waiting."
You obviously haven't been paying attention and twenty bucks says this is your first time hearing the words Shariah Law.
http://www.pi-news.org/wp/uploads/2013/06/1Pew.jpg
|
LambsBread
07.19.16 | "You've called me regressive leftist in the perjorative at least three times in the past twenty minutes." regressive leftist accurately details what you are doing. You are tolerant of intolerant people. It is not namecalling, you just can't handle your bad behavior being called out.
Calling someone a racist for enforcing immigration laws on the other hand, is namecalling.
im guessing you don't even care, you are just trying to change the subject because you are blatantly losing the argument. |
StarlessCore
07.19.16 | "The single stupidest thing I have ever seen in my life: After A Muslim killed 50 gay people in Orlando and pledged allegiance to the Islamic State...
There was a Democrat rally with a rainbow-gay-pride banner, hundreds of people marching and holding a banner saying "LGBT against republican hate".
I am honestly speechless. This sort of delusion is absolutely mind blowing. It's literally on the level of pacificists during WW2."
wow....dont know whats more surprising, this fact, or the fact that somebody as dumb as lambs made the observation
|
SgtShock
07.19.16 | "I asked for evidence that a mass ban on Islamic immigrants would help the US. I'm still waiting."
"Wait until you'll have evidence that it could've helped."
You can use that logic(?) to hypothetically defend any point. "Guise, women shouln t be allowed to vote because bad stuff will happen!" "Do you have proof?" "NO BUT WE GOTTA STOP IT BECUZ LATER YOULL BE SORRY" |
Keyblade
07.19.16 | "This video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHEk_kaXmTk"
so what am i supposed to be looking at here other than bad humour |
SgtShock
07.19.16 | I'm still waiting on a source that deals with the negative effects of Islamic immigration. Some opinion poll from 3 years ago is a far cry from scientific evidence that "bad stuff will happen". |
LambsBread
07.19.16 | Does anyone want to make a bet that the next terrorist attack will be commited by a muslim?
no?
Oh sorry I forgot yall are here to try defend your childish coexist bumperstickers/superficial and asinine philosophy. |
Keyblade
07.19.16 | u tryna make money off terrorism too now? lol |
LambsBread
07.19.16 | "I'm still waiting on a source that deals with the negative effects of Islamic immigration. Some opinion poll from 3 years ago is a far cry from scientific evidence that "bad stuff will happen"."
Im still waiting for a source that god doesn't exist |
SgtShock
07.19.16 | Still waiting, Lamb. |
SgtShock
07.19.16 | You are now saying that proving that a blanket ban on Muslim immigrants would help the US more than harm it is as hopeless as proving god exists. I'm glad you've admitted how indefensible your point is. |
LambsBread
07.19.16 | I really love how you put "opinion poll from three years ago" blatantly trying to change the subject and cast doubt on the poll, by making to an invalid point about the poll being outdated, when it isn't (and you would know that if you literally studied Islam for 1 hour).
There's a ton of evidence, you will just say it is all right wing conspiracy. I've already seen you do it in this thread. let's stop pretending this is a debate, this is simply you refusing to acknowledge the elephant in the room because you want to fit in with your ignorant-like-minded friends - all of which would have been pacificists in ww2. |
Keyblade
07.19.16 | i mean there was a huge terror plot intercepted in france just last month. not to mention that british MP who was murdered in a terror attack in the same period. yall act like white extremism and terrorism is non existent but this was all just last month (!) |
LambsBread
07.19.16 | If you can't connect "virtually all muslims are homophobic" to "a muslim slaughtered 50 gay people in the US" then there's no helping you. You have no integrity when debating, you are dense and you are shameful for defending people who are blatantly evil.
His father was an immigrant from Afghanistan. THis isn't hard to get, you are being obtuse and I honestly cannot stand people like you who play childish debate games in life-or-death topics like this. Bye. |
SgtShock
07.19.16 | Your poll is not sufficient evidence to make such a huge policy decision. It doesn't address the effects of immigration or the social dynamics that result from it. Where are your sources?
EDIT: Please indicate where I condemned someone's source as right wing conspiracy. Why do you have to make shit up like that? |
Conmaniac
07.19.16 | LambsBread how come you never addressed the legitimate points I made above? |
bakkermaarten007
07.19.16 | "so what am i supposed to be looking at here other than bad humour"
Not surprised. Oh well, can't blame you I guess |
Keyblade
07.19.16 | ok man have fun sniggering to bill o'reilly videos i guess, if it helps keep u cozy at night |
Conmaniac
07.19.16 | he was also mentally insane but no it was the fact that he was MUSLIM yeah thats it |
bakkermaarten007
07.19.16 | I was just reading an article about how Hitler was a lone wolf and his actions were an abuse of true national socialism |
bakkermaarten007
07.19.16 | His troops didn't even read Mein Kampf
#notallnazis |
Keyblade
07.19.16 | hey who knows, hitler was white so he's def eligible for the lone wolf card |
Keyblade
07.19.16 | once again with the nazi comparisons tho, yikes |
bakkermaarten007
07.19.16 | "hey who knows, hitler was white so he's def eligible for the lone wolf card
"
One joke at the time, son. too much joke |
bakkermaarten007
07.19.16 | national socialism is an ideology of peace. Hitler was no true national socialist |
SgtShock
07.19.16 | Who has the gall to say all Muslims are the equivalent of Nazis in WWII? That's so disgusting. How do you live with yourself? |
ShadowRemains
07.19.16 | "national socialism is an ideology of peace."
except like none of its practitioners view it that way so that is pointless |
LambsBread
07.19.16 | "I'm still waiting on a source that deals with the negative effects of Islamic immigration"
Sorry I forgot that regressive leftists are so pitifully ignorant they think Afghanistan is eminems new album. |
SgtShock
07.19.16 | Are you going to provide a source and back up your claim? You just seem desperate throwing out insults like that. |
LambsBread
07.19.16 | Do I really need to give you a source on the history of Afghanistan? That should tell you you aren't informed enough to even be discussing Islam. |
LambsBread
07.19.16 | Do I really need to give you a source on the history of Afghanistan? That should tell you you aren't informed enough to even be discussing Islam. |
Sinternet
07.19.16 | this is why we need socialism |
Sinternet
07.19.16 | half of you would be straight down the road to your friendly neighbourhood gulag |
SgtShock
07.19.16 | Look at Lambs dodging my question again. This guy... |
Parallels
07.19.16 | lol sinternet |
LambsBread
07.20.16 | I'm not dodging your question, I answered it and you are so oblivious and appllingly ignorant you didn't even notice.
"Show me evidence that John Lennon was a musician"
"Do I really need to give you a source on the Beatles?... You're that ignorant?"
"Omg obviously you are avoiding my question! Yeesh what is with the namecalling"
|
Sinternet
07.20.16 | that's it fucker i'm getting the KGB |
Futures
07.20.16 | john lennon beat his wife |
Typhoon24
07.20.16 | was also muslim |
runaways
07.20.16 | LambsBread is ridiculous lmao @ them pretending they give a shit about gay people |
runaways
07.20.16 | Late to the alt right conversation, but that political ideology is fucking ridiculous. It's a group of neo nazi fascists spearheaded by pseudo-intellectual journalist twat Milo Yiannopoulos and only seek to "advance" the US by spewing derogatory bullshit. They're a breed of 4Chan users who reached voting age. Seriously, try arguing with one of the many you find on Twitter with an anime icon and they'll call you a "cuck" as their only argument. |
runaways
07.20.16 | Just the other day Milo encouraged his gang of racists to attack Leslie Jones and call her "Harambe" repeatedly in the name of "comedy". I'm all for free speech and comedy, but if you have to be a fucking racist cunt to be funny, you're not funny. And to think people take him seriously. |
Cygnatti
07.20.16 | runaways dude stop being so salty, and the guy is trolling. and while i think he definitely crossed the line there, recall that leslie retweeted a post calling milo an "uncle tom" - which along with "coon", are the go-to name that so-called tolerant liberals call any black person who's a conservative or simply doesn't agree with them.
did she deserve what happened to her, no. but she certainly could have handled it better. |
Cygnatti
07.20.16 | also if taking milo seriously is so surprising, then why are liberals so scared to let him talk on his tour? |
zakalwe
07.20.16 | Milo is great |
Cygnatti
07.20.16 | btw, not that it matters that much, but orlando shooting dude was a registered democrat. |
LambsBread
07.20.16 | Yeah Milo is largely a clown, but then again so are you for blindly lumping me in with him because you are so oblivious you think anyone who isn't a regressive leftist, anyone who can read a single poll on the beliefs of Muslims, is "alt right". |
LambsBread
07.20.16 | by "clown" I mean: more intelligent than the rest of the users disagreeing with me on this forum put together, but still not a serious intellectual. |
SgtShock
07.20.16 | I'm asking you to provide proof that trump's muslim ban will help the U.S.' situation. You know, scientific studies? Examples of policies in the past with comparable effects? Pretty much anything more substantial than "ur a dumb liberal" or "here's an opinion poll on worldwide muslim attitudes that has no information on immigration at all". Also, how is John Lennon's status as a musician even remotely close to the same level of complexity as the effect immigration has? You have no sources because your position is indefensible. It's really embarassing you can't just admit you're wrong, man. Please do us a favor and grow up. |
runaways
07.20.16 | I didn't lump you in with him, LambsBread, hence why it's a separate comment and is preceeded with "Late to the alt-right conversation" |
runaways
07.20.16 | Also lol @ Milo being smarter than anyone in this thread |
LambsBread
07.20.16 | Trump voters sure are dumb!
Can't wait for Eminem's new album Afghanistan! |
LambsBread
07.20.16 | Oh sorry runaway you didn't lump me in with another comment/person, you just baselessly assumed I lacked empathy because you can't defend your superficial views for 10 seconds and need to resort to the most asinine form of ad hominem argument. |
LambsBread
07.20.16 | I am asking for proof that this never-been-tried-before policy has been tried and tested! You know, scientific studies?
I'm on the verge of giving up. |
SgtShock
07.20.16 | Immigration policies and moratoriums have been tried before. Maybe you should give up, Lamb. You don't have any factual basis that the policy would prove effective. If you put as much effort into backing up your argument as you did writing hate speech on a music forum then you'd probably have something worth listening to. Unfortunately it's just opinion and that's not good enough to enforce such a dire policy on. |
LambsBread
07.20.16 | Says the person who thinks Afghanistan is Eminem's new album. |
LambsBread
07.20.16 | I really don't know how to break this to you, there is no polite way, so sorry but: Your ignorance is astounding, and it truly leaves me speechless. It is like hearing someone ask you who John Lennon is, then going on a rant about how he has 'scientifically deduced' that Waka Flocka is the best musician of all time.
You just asked for "scientific proof that Trump's immigration ban will help the US." Then you backtracked to "Immigration policies" in general. What do you expect me to give you as evidence? "Oh here is a scientific study on the last time the US banned Islam, which never happened."
That is the entire fucking point that you are painfully unaware. I am using examples of Islam destroying nearly every country it has touched, to show you how asinine your belief that large-scale immigration of Muslims is "nothing to worry about".
|
SgtShock
07.20.16 | Where did I say that exactly? Oh, this is just like the time you accused me of calling other users' sources "right-wing conspiracies": Completely made up. |
SgtShock
07.20.16 | I see you quoted me saying its "nothing to worry about". Where did I say that? Oh, another fucking made up point.
" I am using examples of Islam destroying nearly every country it has touched"
You haven't provided any sources about Islamic immigrants destroying countries so I don't know what what this is about either. You're flailing, man. Just let it go. |
Kupasexy15
07.20.16 | Yeah, LambsBread,
It's not worth it. One of the reasons why there is so much political acrimony right now, of which this thread is a microcosm, is because conservatives and progressives irreconcilably disagree at deep, philosophical levels. We disagree when it comes to human nature, normative ethics, the role of government, etc.
This isn't to pick on Sgt Shock, but as an example, he seemed unwilling to accept as plausible the notion that people do things for ideological reasons even though his presence and persistence at debate here was itself seemingly because of ideological reasons. He seemed to instead think Islamic terrorism is largely due to socio/political power relations between the Islamic world and the West, and somehow Western dominance between the two bestows moral superiority to the Islamic underdog. How this template can be used to explain the San Bernadino killers -- the husband lived here his entire life, I think, and seemed to be living the American dream -- or the Taliban throwing acid in Muslim girls' faces for going to school, I don't know. |
Kupasexy15
07.20.16 |
Likewise, he mentioned he believes inequality exists and should be addressed. Well, it's not that we don't believe that inequality exists -- conservatives do -- but we don't view many types of inequality as normative like he and other progs do. We're for equality before the law and think inequality before the law needs to be addressed, of course. We also think we're all equal in value, in what philosophers call an ontological sense, i.e. "we're all created equal...". But where we part ways is that we recognize a lot of inequality is just a result of real world, empirical differences between people (Some people are smart/dumb, ugly/attractive, driven/lazy, good/evil, etc. or somewhere in between and this leads to differences in behavior and results). We don't think humanity is malleable, but that human nature is fixed as fallible. We're not putty that can be molded and shaped by human will. On the other side, many progs think the exact opposite, and that statistical discrepancies between incarceration rates between blacks and white, for example, must because some shadowy oppressive structure, ie. institutional racism and not because of innate differences in the demographics, i.e. blacks commit 50% of violent crime in the US for only being 13% of the population, most of the perpetrators being young males. Let me also be clear what I mean by innate: naturally occurring or stemming from a group but not necessarily for biological reasons. I'm not claiming violence is written in the DNA of blacks, but that blacks commit almost 4x their population percentage (13%) in violent crime and that it's an observable, real social fact. This all isn't to say something can't or shouldn't be done to address and remedy high incarceration levels -- I think in fact it can, but it's black communities who have to do it -- but it's not the job of the government to do so. And if it attempted to, it would only make matters worse in perhaps other ways.
Now, once again, this isn't to pick on SGT. Shock but just to illustrate as a sort of case study briefly outlining the intractable philosophical differences between those on the Left and the Right in this country. I guarantee some people will be appalled by what I said about blacks, failing to distinguish between a racial fact or a racist statement. But most of this stems from lack of knowledge or understanding of conservatism as a philosophy, which, imho, often quickly turns into willful ignorance or emotional obstinacy.
I'm checking out for good, as this isn't worth it and just banging one's head against the wall. |
LambsBread
07.20.16 | "IM ASKING YOU TO PROVIDE PROOF THAT TRUMPS MUSLIM BAN WILL HELP THE US SITUATION"
Not making anything up, stop playing victim. |
LambsBread
07.20.16 | I've provided sources, you were too oblivious to even see them for what they were. You've been arguing for hours while being completely unaware Afghanistan is a country that has been ruined by the influx of Muslim population. I was just enjoying you embarrassing yourself too much to point this out until now. Let me know when that new Em album drops ok? |
LambsBread
07.20.16 | "One of the reasons why there is so much political acrimony right now, of which this thread is a microcosm, is because conservatives and progressives irreconcilably disagree at deep, philosophical levels. We disagree when it comes to human nature, normative ethics, the role of government, etc."
Really though, these aren't disagreements. It's just one side blinding themselves to all available evidence. Assuming people have inherently good/non-violent normative ethics is to deny virtually all of human history. Proposing a massive government like the one's Democrats propose is to ignore all 20th century history.
They always try to make this out to be a "intellectual disagreement" it's not, it's like a clergyman debating an astronaut about the moon.
You're right though, it is basically a lost cause. These kids have been so brainwashed from birth there is basically no hope of getting them to open their minds to even the most obvious of facts (this threads unwillingness to even recognize or respond to a single poll I posted about Islam is a microcosm of that.)
My eagerness to inform people to blatant truths is an addiction, not something i'm proud of. On this site though, it's just an utter waste of time. Too much sarcasm, facetiousness and childishness. I've convinced many people, never on this site really. I don't know why I am wasting my time, something about people who don't know what Afghanistan is talking condescendingly about GW Bush's foreign policy really just pisses me off. People died for this shit you damn kids. |
SgtShock
07.20.16 | So Canada's immigration experiences can't be compared to the US but Afghanistan's can? I can't even. |
SgtShock
07.20.16 | I'm not playing victim. You accused me of calling sources posted by other users "conspiracy theories". Never happened. You accused me of saying this was "nothing to worry about". Never happened. Lastly you keep recycling some tired joke that I said Eminem's album was named Afghanistan. Once again, that never happened. Do you just make shit up like his all the time? |
porcupinetheater
07.20.16 | Didn't know you could have a God complex and a persecution complex in the same person. LambsBread is a miracle of science. |
porcupinetheater
07.20.16 | Wait, never mind, that's nearly the entirety of America's pseudo-intellectual right wing. |
bakkermaarten007
07.20.16 | Everyone here dismissing Milo as a racist/ fascist whatever, would not last 2 minutes with him in debate. Look up some videos of him utterly destroying regressive liberals. |
guitarded_chuck
07.20.16 | Eventually these debates or whatever they are don't really matter. Reality will catch up with you soon enough. Possibly one or two family members will die first, but eventually eyes will open. |
guitarded_chuck
07.20.16 | Possibly one or two family members will die first, but eventually eyes Possibly one or two family members will die first, but eventually eyes will open. Possibly one or two family members will die first, but eventually eyes will open.Possibly one or two family members will die first, but eventually eyes will open.Possibly one or two Possibly one or two family members will die first, but eventually eyes will open. Possibly one or two family members will die first, but eventually eyes will open.Possibly one or Possibly one or two family members will die first, but eventually eyes will open. Possibly one or two family members will die first, but eventually eyes will open.Possibly one or two family members will die first, but eventually eyes will open.Possibly one or two family members will die first, but eventually eyes will open. family members will die first, but eventually eyes will open.Possibly one or two family members will die first, but eventually eyes will open.family members will die first, but eventually eyes will open. open. Possibly one or two family members will die first, but eventually eyes will open.Possibly one or two family members will die first, but eventually eyes will open.Possibly one or two family members will die first, but eventually eyes will open. |
bakkermaarten007
07.20.16 | Exactly user guitarded_chuck. Keep repeating it until it is engraved into your unconsciousness. Excellent pupil |
Keyblade
07.20.16 | it's almost like ur wishing for it to happen just so ur proven right. disgusting
no wonder ur so self loathing and depressed, no sane human can live with themselves after spewing such horrible shit |
bakkermaarten007
07.20.16 | "it's almost like ur wishing for it to happen just so ur proven right. disgusting
"
Mean-spirited. (followed by another personal attack)
The spiritual can is dry it seems |
bakkermaarten007
07.20.16 | I hope I'm wrong, but as it looks and from past experiences (conversing with lefties who turned right after their neighbourhood turned to shit)...as it looks, the olitical indoctrination has proven so succesfull that many people will only come to their senses after a personal atrocity happens. There's only one side and one side only responsible for this: the left.
It's a bit like this ex-KGB agent cares to inform us. A man well-versed in subversion techniques...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlpODYhnPEo |
guitarded_chuck
07.20.16 | yeah i bet guys like bakker and lambs are the most disgusting antisocial piece of shit losers irl
like they can get all big and tough behind a username on a forum on the internet but irl they are probably useless pathetic scum going nowhere in life what with their absolutely flawed worldviews and negative attitude, if this is their true personality i'm sure there aren't many people flocking to them in admiration or anything |
bakkermaarten007
07.20.16 | Watch the video chuck (I'm pretty sure we would get along irl tbh) |
Keyblade
07.20.16 | lol ur talkin bout mean spirited when ur lowkey wishing ppl's family members die just so they can 'see the light' and comparing muslims to nazi's. you are detached from reality, seek help fam |
bakkermaarten007
07.20.16 | Keyblade trying to frame me, again.
Ity just shows the shallowness of your arguments. If you wanted that, keep doing what you're doing. Otherwise, brood for something better. |
guitarded_chuck
07.20.16 | dont attack me personally bro, even though i am personally attacking 25% of the global population |
bakkermaarten007
07.20.16 | I am attacking their ideas, not their forms. As I have stated a bazillion times |
bakkermaarten007
07.20.16 | 'Nazism is an essential part of some persons' personalities, therefore attacking their ideology is attacking them personally', is what you are saying about muslims and their ideology.
|
bakkermaarten007
07.20.16 | Unlike you, I don't see muslims as inseparable of their beliefs. There are enough ex-muslims to attest to that. These ex-muslims are often courageous too, for they could easily have died by the hands of their ex-'comrades' |
Cryptkeeper
07.20.16 | 'Everyone here dismissing Milo as a racist/ fascist whatever, would not last 2 minutes with him in debate. Look up some videos of him utterly destroying regressive liberals.'
Remember when he said there are no decent countries that don't have Judeo-Christian values? No? Of course you don't because you're fucking blind to anything that harms your cause.
Milo is a joke of a fucking journalist and has been repeatedly silenced in debates when he ran out of anecdotes. |
Cryptkeeper
07.20.16 | 'I'm pretty sure we would get along irl tbh'
You don't even know how to socially interact let's stop pretending now |
bakkermaarten007
07.20.16 | Whatever keeps you happy cryptkeeper. Be sure to watch the video above, about useful idiots |
bakkermaarten007
07.20.16 | ^^the video features an ex-KGB agent. Someone who was molded in subversion techniques. Someone who was at the top of communist spheres. In short: someone who knows a lot more than you.
But it doesn't matter how authentic the information is. You will cry in disbelief until indeed you get 'kicked in your *** bottom' |
Keyblade
07.20.16 | "Unlike you, I don't see muslims as inseparable of their beliefs. There are enough ex-muslims to attest to that. These ex-muslims are often courageous too, for they could easily have died by the hands of their ex-'comrades'"
u realize ex muslims are not...muslims? basically what ur saying is muslims are nazi's except for the ones who arent muslim anymore. how has ur head not exploded from cognitive dissonance yet |
bakkermaarten007
07.20.16 | Not going to explain another sentence to you. Pfft, ridiculous. |
Cryptkeeper
07.20.16 | 'the video features an ex-KGB agent. Someone who was molded in subversion techniques. Someone who was at the top of communist spheres. In short: someone who knows a lot more than you.'
A spy knows by definition about demographic data and sociological science.
Good to know, had no idea the AIVD actually should be doing polls. |
anarchistfish
07.20.16 | "You don't even know how to socially interact let's stop pretending now"
yh ironic that he's less agreeable than probably 95% of muslims |
bakkermaarten007
07.21.16 | sigh. lost souls
communist above me lecturing me, gosh
Should I go to the gulag now? |
bakkermaarten007
07.21.16 | A society that's tolerant for communism and for islam. Well, it probably deserves to end
But I'll keep fighting |
zakalwe
07.21.16 | How many Muslims have truly assimilated into Western Society? |
porcupinetheater
07.21.16 | Like, a fucking lot? Almost every single Muslim living in Western society? My God, the mental gymnastics... |
bakkermaarten007
07.21.16 | From time to time I feel these incredibly sinister waves of sadness for my fellow beings wash over me and I wonder if it's even worth it
Zakalwe above me asking an honest and obvious question. But the continuation upon that question is already so predictable. It's so, so sad so suffocating |
zakalwe
07.21.16 | Yes truly assimilated by increasing the amount of mosques, faith schools, dominance in numbers in specific areas and being shackled by religious beliefs. |
porcupinetheater
07.21.16 | Building mosques? Jesus, next you'll be telling me that when a bunch of Christians move into an area they build churches, and large Jewish communities have temples! It's almost as if people of a specific and acknowledged religious faith still practice their religion! Even more shocking, people of similar minority backgrounds move into similar areas! You're really rewriting the book on social dynamics here, goodness gracious.
Your ignorance regarding the last point, that Muslims are shackled by religious beliefs to the extent that they are incapable of assimilating into Western society just screams you go out of your way to never interact with anyone of Muslim faith, lest your preconceived notions be challenged by the fundamental nature of reality. |
bakkermaarten007
07.21.16 | I would stop there zak. If someone deems it normal that you bring your own culture and force it upon your host culture instead of assimilating to the host culture...I mean, then you just know that you won't be able to reason with that person. His source code is completely different from yours. |
bakkermaarten007
07.21.16 | Society with immigration is like being invited for dinner at someone's home. You assimilate to the habits of your host as long as you are there. It is common courtesy and it creates order. |
zakalwe
07.21.16 | I've said this before dude.
The difference is I live this shit. I see it with my own eyes and see the divisions it creates. Everything has consequences, for better and worse.
|
bakkermaarten007
07.21.16 | Would I walk around in tank top and a cross hanging around my neck in Saudi-Arabia, Iran, ...?
Let alone, after being friendly and accepting to me, would I dare ask my host to build a couple of Churches for them to stare at every time they look up? |
porcupinetheater
07.21.16 | You wouldn't because of the political context, the same that allows the prominent rise of extremist groups in the first place. The relative power of Extremist Muslim groups is directly traceable to their existence in countries that have either a very weak centralized government or a despotic reign (for instance, compare freedom of expression in Iran in the 1970s to Iran present day) - it isn't coincidence that Al-Qaeda was able to gain prominence after the massive political shifts in the region in the early 90s around the time of the Persian Gulf War, and Isis only reaching significant power following the withdrawal of outside forces in a region massively destabilized and then abandoned by Imperialist Western Military intervention.
Religious extremism exists everywhere. When these extremist groups either take governmental power or exist in a place where the government doesn't have the strength to keep them in check, the implications of the radical belief become much more violent and much more deadly. Religious tenets have nothing to do with it, it's just a convenient smokescreen to cover political instability and genocide. How you can ever argue there's something inherent to the Islamic belief system when it has more subdivisions of belief than any other religion with the possible exception of Christianity (not sure of the exact figures), I don't understand at all. |
Cryptkeeper
07.21.16 | 'yh ironic that he's less agreeable than probably 95% of muslims'
Combine it with his autistic reasoning and the more than obvious inferiority complex and you got yourself a classic basket case.
Good thing he also sees himself as a fucking prophet fighting the 'good fight'. |
bakkermaarten007
07.21.16 | "You wouldn't because of the political context, the same that allows the prominent rise of extremist groups in the first place. "
We're getting there....now answer me: why is the political context as such?
Because of...yes yes, Islamic groups with Islamic politics.
Nevertheless it is their culture and we should respect it. You have an odd sense of hospitality if you think it is okay for any group to exercise their own culture wherever they are.
|
bakkermaarten007
07.21.16 | "Combine it with his autistic reasoning and the more than obvious inferiority complex and you got yourself a classic basket case.
"
Insult after insult. I could easily start insulting you, but I'm above that. All that rage.
Besides: when you said 'A spy knows by definition about demographic data and sociological science.
Good to know, had no idea the AIVD actually should be doing polls.'
You do realize that KGB are so much more than spies right? Their main task is propaganda and subversion (like 85% as Yuri Bezmenov said himself in the extended video). Thus yes, they do know a whole lot about demographics and sociology. A lot more than your stubborn mind.
How does it feel to realize that you made a fool out of yourself, yet again? It sure is in fashion to remain stubbornly on the moral highground despite all ods. |
bakkermaarten007
07.21.16 | You do realize that 'higher' people laugh at your attitude and the attitude of your likes, right? No ofcourse, you don't. But you should know that you are nothing but a disposable tool for them. Your vote matters, you think but you are molded into a perfect shape for their convictions.
You are merely an end to an easily controllable world. Why would they force you to believe what they want you to believe if they can make you feel morally superior by making you think it yourself?
Questions, questions, questions. Without ever finding the answer... |
porcupinetheater
07.21.16 | I believe anyone should have the right to express their own religious belief, provided it doesn't interfere with anyone else's right to do so. I'm sure you'd disagree, but I see very little evidence of any Muslims living in Western civilizations attempting to impose their religion on anyone else (it's Christians who are almost universally responsible for that here).
And the history of political unrest in the Middle East is almost universally traceable to Western Imperialism - the forceable removable of land to create the state of Israel and stripping millions of citizens of their established government, arming Al-Qaeda when it was still the Mujahideen to fight the Soviet Union, supporting Saddam Hussein in the Iran-Iraq war as well as numerous other political conflicts at the height of Interventionist Western foreign policy in the interest of acquiring cheaper oil reserves, embroiling ourselves in conflicts just long enough to rip away certain areas of any semblance of political stability, declaring "Mission accomplished!" and pulling out from the mess Western imperialism wrought with an embryonic and unestablished government quickly falling prey to the better armed and better organized extremist groups (that, again, we initially helped to fund and arm in the first place). |
bakkermaarten007
07.21.16 | "but I see very little evidence of any Muslims living in Western civilizations attempting to impose their religion on anyone else (it's Christians who are almost universally responsible for that here)."
It is thus obvious that you live in the US. Come to Europe once in a while (for an extended holiday of half a year). You might change your opinion soon enough.
But hey, I get it: in the US the problem is not as big- not nearly as big) as it is in Europe.
You got worse problems than that for the moment like racial conflict or your next president... |
porcupinetheater
07.21.16 | Sure, by virtue of not having an insurmountably large body of water to separate y'all from the main global landmass, the specifics of the situation are different, but that doesn't change the fact that root source of extremism is political and not religious. It's no accident that the location most currently succumbing to extremism is also the most politically unstable, which in turn leads to the refugee crisis (who are largely Muslims themselves trying to escape persecution and terror in the Middle East itself from these extremist groups). It's all interconnected, and the political environment is only worsening (i.e. what's happening in Turkey right now) and, at least according to the multiple family members I have currently living in Ankara, the unrest, fear, and ultimately panic is not springing from religion. It's a similar situation to what was happening in Iran in the 1970s. |
Keyblade
07.21.16 | "Yes truly assimilated by increasing the amount of mosques, faith schools, dominance in numbers in specific areas and being shackled by religious beliefs."
are u against the building all places of worship and faith schools or just islamic ones? |
zakalwe
07.21.16 | Islam causes the most problems dude, it's the most dominating and far and away the least malleable |
Evreaia
07.21.16 | ""but I see very little evidence of any Muslims living in Western civilizations attempting to impose their religion on anyone else "
I'm going to call bullshit on that, especially in Europe.
example: It's forbidden to have a cross (the symbol of our religion) in public buildings, because its oppressive towards Islam. And this is just one thing, I can name you a shitload more from the last 5 years alone.
|
bakkermaarten007
07.21.16 | "It's all interconnected, and the political environment is only worsening (i.e. what's happening in Turkey right now) and, at least according to the multiple family members I have currently living in Ankara, the unrest, fear, and ultimately panic is not springing from religion. It's a similar situation to what was happening in Iran in the 1970s."
What a coincidence it is then that: Turkey was largely secular since Kemal Atatürk and was growing ever more to the model of Europe. And since Erdogan got in power- an Islamist- secularization is turning backwards and oppression of infidels or political opponents is increasing.
Islam is politics. It is not just a religion but a total ideology. |
Keyblade
07.21.16 | "Islam causes the most problems dude, it's the most dominating and far and away the least malleable"
i mean that's ur subjective opinion but yea eff freedom of religion right? we're all about western values except for when brown ppl make us feel uncomfortable |
Keyblade
07.21.16 | "I'm going to call bullshit on that, especially in Europe.
example: It's forbidden to have a cross (the symbol of our religion) in public buildings, because its oppressive towards Islam. And this is just one thing, I can name you a shitload more from the last 5 years alone. "
u got a source for that bro? i know a lot of places in europe where the cross is banned in the name of secularism tho |
bakkermaarten007
07.21.16 | "u got a source for that bro? i know a lot of places in europe where the cross is banned in the name of secularism tho"
No matter his source, I can attest to that. I live in the same country as he does and although I don't recall that it is forbidden to have a cross in public buildings, I do recall that crosses or 'real' Christmas trees in big cities are being discouraged in order 'to not offend anyone'.
Believe it or don't believe it, in the latter case we would be liars.
If you're going to ask sources for everything we wouldn't be finished with this thread in ten years. Only large sociological manifestations or quotes and other game changing aspects need sources in such a 'debate'. But you can think of us- Belgian citizens- as liars if it suits you;
|
bakkermaarten007
07.21.16 | " i know a lot of places in europe where the cross is banned in the name of secularism tho"
In governmental institutions it has been forbidden for a long time already. But here we are talking about non-governmental organisations or initiatives with a public function. |
Keyblade
07.21.16 | im not accusing anybody of being a liar, evereia's my homie. im just asking for a source because i cant seem to find one and u would think there would at least be reports if something like that happened just like there have been in plenty of other cities where crosses have banned because in the name of secularism
also, kindly dont quote me from now on. i dont fuck with ppl who consider me as bad as nazi's because of my faith thnx |
guitarded_chuck
07.21.16 | thanks for actually taking time to post some actual logic and factual info porcupine. i can't justify wasting time arguing with basement dwelling ignorant racists personally but im glad someone is willing
btw i really liked the list of films you posted yesterday and saved the list, going to start watching them over the weekend. cheers |
zakalwe
07.21.16 | It's all subjective though apparently. |
Keyblade
07.21.16 | are there ways to objectively measure a vague term like malleability? if not then it's subjective yea |
zakalwe
07.21.16 | Saudia Arabia. Rigid as fuck. |
Keyblade
07.21.16 | because saudi arabia is representative of muslims and islam, gotcha |
Cryptkeeper
07.21.16 | 'but I'm above that'
''higher' people'
Actually kill yourself |
xxxPussiSlayer69xxx
07.21.16 | Holy shit this thread got messy. What's going on? Someone do a summary for my wee brain |
Keyblade
07.21.16 | lol a1 username. spare urself dawg |
ShadowRemains
07.21.16 | jesus fucking christ bakker |
Evreaia
07.21.16 | "Someone do a summary"
clash of experiences |
xxxPussiSlayer69xxx
07.21.16 | Keyblade it's that bad?
Evreaia thanks! |
guitarded_chuck
07.21.16 | press 1 if you think user Bakker should log out off Sputnik forever |
xxxPussiSlayer69xxx
07.21.16 | what has he done? |
zakalwe
07.21.16 | In a nutshell sanctimonious kids sticking there fingers in their ears when they're berated by obnoxious racists. |
Evreaia
07.21.16 | throwing the big useless words out there. |
Cryptkeeper
07.21.16 | Zakalwe with the incorrect data and faux-intelligent vocabulary |
zakalwe
07.21.16 | Just trying to assimilate to sput |
Cryptkeeper
07.21.16 | Good attempt, but you need to post other people's and pretend that those scores are ludicrous |
RadicalEd
07.21.16 | I swear I'll name my End of the year list: "Trump 2016" so I too will get 1000+ comments. |
guitarded_chuck
07.21.16 | nah |
Keyblade
07.21.16 | and then rename back to Ed 2016 it when it hits 1000 |
Evreaia
07.21.16 | Gonna steal that idea.
Telling you now. Sorry not sorry ! |
bakkermaarten007
07.21.16 | "im not accusing anybody of being a liar, evereia's my homie. im just asking for a source because i cant seem to find one and u would think there would at least be reports if something like that happened j"
It's weird indeed. And it would point to us being liars. But just trust us on this. When it happened, there was little attention for it anyway, as if society was already prepared for this.
"also, kindly dont quote me from now on. i dont fuck with ppl who consider me as bad as nazi's because of my faith thnx"
Is it really so hard to distinguish yourself WITHOUT your faith? I think your faith is as bad-possibly worse- than nazism, but that doesn't make you as bad. I know some people who hold some disturbing ideas but they are good people and their moral values would prevent them from even considering doing something stupid.
I don't think you are bad, okay? I think you are a good guy, judging from only sputnik comments, with sympathy for an ideology that I don't deem good.
|
bakkermaarten007
07.21.16 | This is a comment coming from a tolerant person, who just classified me as 'Slechtmensch' and therefore can die without problem:
"'but I'm above that'
''higher' people'
Actually kill yourself"
Also: this is how Gutmenschen react when you corner them. |
Maco097
07.21.16 | Man if Trump wins this world will be more interesting. |
bakkermaarten007
07.21.16 | Here's me caring for my fellow beings and trying to steer them onto a path that's better for their intellectual and physical integrity, but oh no; these people wish death upon me.
Luckily I'm past that stage to actually get disturbed by someone on the internet. Phew |
bakkermaarten007
07.21.16 | "Man if Trump wins this world will be more interesting.
"
That is a certainty. Interesting it will be. |
Maco097
07.21.16 | @bakker That's the spirit, stick to your ideals. Even though I don't agree with some of them. |
bakkermaarten007
07.21.16 | "fuck off already you inbred moron
"
Woops, such tolerant people forgetting their aura.
I'm not shocked though. I know how hypocrite your bunch are. |
bakkermaarten007
07.21.16 | "That's the spirit, stick to your ideals. Even though I don't agree with some of them."
Amen. Unfortunately Voltaire has not been read by leftie sputnik users. Calling for death etc.
Now think what would these users do if a less confident user would actually do it, kill himself? It's nastiness.
To think I would shame them in real life when they cannot have 5 minutes to figure out responses.
Every time on here I 'debate' with two/three/ or more persons at a time, never waiting longer than a couple of minutes. Would they be silenced in a real debate... |
Evreaia
07.21.16 | its the internet, everyone is a hypocrite here.
|
bakkermaarten007
07.21.16 | Some more than others |
Maco097
07.21.16 | Yeah I can see that, most of the users here throw Ad Hominems and think they can actually make someone bad. |
Evreaia
07.21.16 | "Every time on here I 'debate' with two/three/ or more persons at a time, never waiting longer than a couple of minutes. Would they be silenced in a real debate..."
reminds me of Belgian Politics, once the red rats start spouting nonsense again. |
bakkermaarten007
07.21.16 | "reminds me of Belgian Politics, once the red rats start spouting nonsense again.
"
Yup, no wonder our politicians of the right are better debaters, they have much better training against more opponents=) |
Keyblade
07.21.16 | "It's weird indeed. And it would point to us being liars."
once again, i'm not saying anybody is lying. if it turns out it's not true it can just be misinformation. i'm not accusing i just want to find out and forgive me if i dont trust someone who probably sees muslims in his cereal
"Is it really so hard to distinguish yourself WITHOUT your faith?"
this is something you seem to have a hard time grasping...you can't. a faith is nothing without the people who practice it. what is your solution to combating the faith that u loathe? it certainly isn't ripping up as many korans as u can find...whatever you solution is will inevitably involve PEOPLE. it is a convenient and weak cop out to say well i'm not talking about the people, just the ideology when we know damn well they are synonymous. do u deport books or do u deport people? do u want to prevent korans from being imported from syria or is it the people?
in any case it was -muslims- you compared to -nazi's- and not -islam- to -nazism- so your little copout is moot. so once again i'll ask you to leave me out of your discussions |
Conmaniac
07.21.16 | i shouldnt of opened this thread I was in a good mood today ):
bakker is still a misguided, racist, idiot. what's new |
Evreaia
07.21.16 | "misguided"
And you're deluded if you think everything is as black and white as racist/non-racist. |
zakalwe
07.21.16 | Is anyone actually offended by anything anyone's said in this thread? |
bakkermaarten007
07.21.16 | "this is something you seem to have a hard time grasping...you can't. a faith is nothing without the people who practice it. what is your solution to combating the faith that u loathe? it certainly isn't ripping up as many korans as u can find...whatever you solution is will inevitably involve PEOPLE. it is a convenient and weak cop out to say well i'm not talking about the people, just the ideology when we know damn well they are synonymous."
The ideology and the people ARE not synonymous. Obviously enough, people HOLD beliefs not exist of beliefs. I could go on about this little anecdote of yours, but this is one of the main reasons why criticizers of Islam deem it so dangerous: because of this conviction that the belief system is inseparable from the person. Therefore whatever that person does, he/she will inevitably be influenced by his/her belief and inevitably exert some kind of pressure on other persons/entities/institutions. Islamization is no revolution, it is creeping throughout many aspects of everyday life and we cannot stop it without attacking the ideology.
"in any case it was -muslims- you compared to -nazi's- and not -islam- to -nazism- so your little copout is moot. "
Then I was being inconsistent. What I mean is: muslims adhere a troublesome ideology in my opinion. But adhering that ideology doesn't make them evil. It is the lengths to which they want to go in adhering it that can make it troublesome.
|
Evreaia
07.21.16 | "But adhering that ideology doesn't make them evil. It is the lengths to which they want to go in adhering it that can make it troublesome."
[2]
Hard denying that. |
bakkermaarten007
07.21.16 | For instance: many European Christians are just Christian by name and when the occasion calls for it. They are European citizens who conform to a set of laws and valeus of the Enlightenment when that is not the case. If all muslims could behave that way? It would be wonderful.
We want stability that is all. We do not want a drastic departure from those values we have come to know and love.
|
Conmaniac
07.21.16 | oh look another user to add to my list! thanks Evreaia |
Evreaia
07.21.16 | You're welcome. |
bakkermaarten007
07.21.16 | "Is anyone actually offended by anything anyone's said in this thread?
"
Well, calling for my death was almost there. |
Evreaia
07.21.16 | "calling for my death"
Internet, Internet never changes. |
Typhoon24
07.21.16 | "Is anyone actually offended by anything anyone's said in this thread?"
offended nah but depressed |
Conmaniac
07.21.16 | but depressed [2] |
zakalwe
07.21.16 | You don't find it uplifting that we are not all one hive mind. People feel strongly and passionately about issues that effect them without being shackled by religion, or God or bullshit?
Gives me hope tbh. |
bakkermaarten007
07.21.16 | listen to some jams and come back when you're feeling sunny again @con and ty |
Conmaniac
07.21.16 | Zak all of your arguments have been at least somewhat legit and I agree that it's refreshing to see different opinions.
but other users in this thread....idk man it's just sad |
Conmaniac
07.21.16 | doing that rn bakker. the more you comment though the sadder I become so maybe it's best if you just stop talking for now |
bakkermaarten007
07.21.16 | Classic compliment-attack combo |
bakkermaarten007
07.21.16 | Maybe it's best if you voice your opinion about Trump or Islam or something instead of keeping an imaginary list of so-called idiots. |
Typhoon24
07.21.16 | real talk I liked zakalwe's contribution to this thread the most. |
Evreaia
07.21.16 | "so-called idiots"
People with different views
ftfy |
Typhoon24
07.21.16 | no real problem with bakker's pov either. some of the arguments were a stretch but he aint crazy.
I was depressed at all the name calling and "im more educated than you" bs from everybody |
bakkermaarten007
07.21.16 | "no real problem with bakker's pov either. some of the arguments were a stretch but he aint crazy.
"
Why thank you. It's a relief that I'm not crazy lol |
Conmaniac
07.21.16 | aka Lambs
and Bakker has some legit arguments but some of his other stances (aka Nazis = Islams) are ridiculous
also Evreaia and Bakker are salty cuz they know they are at the top of my list |
Evreaia
07.21.16 | To be honest, I found the discussion rather civil between Keyblade and bakker. I've seen way worse shit on this site. |
bakkermaarten007
07.21.16 | "also Evreaia and Bakker are salty cuz they know they are at the top of my list
"
Don't care a single bit about your list though. You should know that by now |
Evreaia
07.21.16 | "salty"
totally salty here, the salt an online discussion brings to my life is unimaginable. Please stop blowing things out of proportion. |
Conmaniac
07.21.16 | hahah if you truly didnt care you two wouldn't still be talking about it (; |
bakkermaarten007
07.21.16 | "hahah if you truly didnt care you two wouldn't still be talking about it (;
"
Okay, we do care. Please scratch my name of your list mighty conmaniac? |
Funeralopolis
07.21.16 | Trump will win the presidency and it will be a glorious day. It's unbelivable that any Anti-Trumper would vote for Hillary, Hillary honestly is the only candidate Trump could ever have a chance of defeating, due to his controversial nature, and yet here we are. Bernie would have probably crushed Trump if he became the nominee tbh. |
Evreaia
07.21.16 | "hahah if you truly didnt care you two wouldn't still be talking about it "
We're talking about the topic, not about your list. |
Conmaniac
07.21.16 | Trump will win prob yeah. Bernie's supporters are so hardcore bernie that they will prob refuse to vote for Hilary. not sure who I'm even going to vote for to be honest. |
Typhoon24
07.21.16 | it'll be the most embarrassing day in American history. :( |
Evreaia
07.21.16 | Both candidates are pretty shit, sucks to be an american this election. |
zakalwe
07.21.16 | George Dubya. |
Conmaniac
07.21.16 | at least we agree both candidates suck Evreaia |
Typhoon24
07.21.16 | yeah but lets not act like trump isn't much worse than Hillary. sure she's a shady robot, but I don't see her doing anything Obama wouldn't have done. I'd gladly take an awkward old lady Obama over fuckin trump.
and bush was an embarrassment too. I'd get over him quick because at least he was polite and stupid. trump is rude and stupid. |
bakkermaarten007
07.21.16 | Honestly, I did think that Trump's public appearances regarding the presidential race but recently with his wife's plagiarism and his ridicule for his running mate ("I don't need him") made me doubt again.
He'll probably be a shit president too. America's politics are done with. Better vote en masse for a third party. But that won't ever happen. |
Evreaia
07.21.16 | Bush was literally the worst president ever.
Both of them. |
bakkermaarten007
07.21.16 | "but I don't see her doing anything Obama wouldn't have done. "
Her relationship with Russia is not good. It's one very important aspect in today's world. |
Conmaniac
07.21.16 | exactly Typhoon. Hilary is awful but I can't see her doing anything too terrible tbh. she's far from qualified though |
Conmaniac
07.21.16 | her foreign policy is actually a strength id say, one of the few things she had over Bernie |
Conmaniac
07.21.16 | Trump has a good relationship with our potential enemies (North Korea...) and a shit relationship with a lot of our allies... |
Funeralopolis
07.21.16 | Hillary is the safest candidate but things have been going to shit for years, things have to change, and that takes some risk at one point or another |
Conmaniac
07.21.16 | agreed Funeral but is Trump really the risk we want to take? |
Typhoon24
07.21.16 | for real. I'd rather have a serious third party candidate change things up than this asshole |
Evreaia
07.21.16 | I really don't understand how no other candidate has stand up for either party. It's not that these two are bad, literally all candidates this election where rather weak.
Trump, Cruz, Hillary and Bernie take the cake though for this shit show. Laughable idea that any of those could become one of the most mighty people on earth. |
Conmaniac
07.21.16 | despite Bernie's unrealistic goals and weaknesses I will still stand by the fact that as a politician he was the change this government needed. (aka getting money out of politics) |
Typhoon24
07.21.16 | yup. economic policies were super unrealistic but Bernie has a heart and soul. I'd trust him to keep us out of war and to invest our resources on things that matter. everything else (national debt, isis, etc...), he might have to take an L. |
Conmaniac
07.21.16 | exactly. internet hyped him up a lot on things he really didn't have great experience in. hopefully at the very least he inspired people to start voting locally, because really this Presidential election is important, but not as important as people are making it out to be. |
LambsBread
07.21.16 | "I am attacking their ideas, not their forms. As I have stated a bazillion times"
Doesn't matter, regressive leftists hear what they want you to say. They realize if they look at a single poll on the opinions of Muslims, they lost the argument. All they can do is call you a big meanie and grasp at straws about how you are an evil person for stating obvious facts. The irony is, this rhetoric clearly implies they are the ones with no integrity, honesty, goodwill etc. Haters gonna hate.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CnrIGGkUMAEjCdE.jpg |
LambsBread
07.21.16 | "guys look, 75% of Muslims want to kill ex-Muslims and gay people!!! I have scientific polls as proof!"
"Omg you fucking bigot, way to talk shit about 25% of the entire world population. You are scum! blah blah blah blah blah asshole dick loser"
|
LambsBread
07.21.16 | Look at the substance of Chuck's comments in this thread LOL:
" i can't justify wasting time arguing with basement dwelling ignorant racists personally"
"yeah i bet guys like bakker and lambs are the most disgusting antisocial piece of shit losers irl
like they can get all big and tough behind a username on a forum on the internet but irl they are probably useless pathetic scum going nowhere in life what with their absolutely flawed worldviews and negative attitude, if this is their true personality i'm sure there aren't many people flocking to them in admiration or anything"
"tell me how sad of an existence you live irl"
"but every muslim wants to throw every not muslim into a gas chamber amirite"
"this is probably a major problem you have in life if im reading your personality correctly, just some advice"
"he is that type of person whos ignorance is so far gone that he has absolutely no hope of ever seeing the light
my lesson to any of those reading this post out here is to simply ignore this type of people in life because there is no benefit for you you'll only get frustrated and waste your time"
"guy is literally a fucking moron i wish everyone would stop entertaining him"
"go away kid"
"and thats a bad thing cause your daddy told you so amirite"
He's like all of the kids crying in that photo I just posted at once. He comes into serious discussions, flings shit, then starts rattling off personal insults (which he seems to be self-projecting). Very strange guy, but being on Sputnik for 15+ years will do that to you.
This is a common strategy of the regressive left. They can't actually debate, so they need to pretend the debate itself over Islam is absurd. They need to call you a racist before you can simply point to the overwhelming evidence supporting your arguments (any poll ever taken etc).
Innocent people are going to die because of childish rhetoric like this, I hope you are proud. |
Conmaniac
07.21.16 | You do the same thing though Lambs, don't act like Chuck is the only one name-calling. I could literally comb through this thread and cherry pick quotes from you just like you did. |
Maco097
07.21.16 | My favorite part is when they think they can judge a person according to some comments in a forum. Lol |
Conmaniac
07.21.16 | my favorite part is when Lambs says the words "regressive leftists" makes me giggle |
LambsBread
07.21.16 | It really sucks because I am not a strong Trump supporter, he was my least favorite Republican, and have basically been forced into supporting him because over half the country thinks Islam is synonymous with Jainism, and sees no problem with flooding our country with young Muslim men when ISIS is literally telling us they will use our refugee program as a trojan horse.
You have regressive leftists like Chuck to thank for the rise of Trump, people are rationally voting for Trump because these people will destroy western civilization and are too oblivious to even know it. |
Conmaniac
07.21.16 | ayyyy he said it again |
LambsBread
07.21.16 | Regressive leftist isn't a form of unproductive/needless namecalling, it actually diagnoses/conveys what you are doing: being tolerant of intolerant people.
I have not been namecalling. You can go ahead and try to quote me. Saying someone is "ignorant" who doesn't know what Afghanistan is is hardly the same thing as saying someone is scum for stating a valid fact. |
Conmaniac
07.21.16 | never said regressive leftist was a form of namecalling. it's just funny when you use the term (: |
LambsBread
07.21.16 | "You do the same thing though Lambs, don't act like Chuck is the only one name-calling."
um |
Conmaniac
07.21.16 | do I really have to explain my comment to you?
you namecall throughout this thread. when you say "regressive leftist" i laugh. 2 different things that were in 2 different comments |
LambsBread
07.21.16 | "I haven't read this thread but no one is taking you seriously"
uh no |
AsleepInTheBack
07.21.16 | As an outsider (I'm from the UK) its honestly terrifying that Trump has a shot. Not meaning to offend any if his supporters, but, at least from the press coverage we've had, the shit he's saying and the support he has been getting for it is incredibly worrying |
LambsBread
07.21.16 | I haven't name-called, you are just lazily making things up to make bad arguments. |
LambsBread
07.21.16 | "the shit he's saying and the support he has been getting for it is incredibly worrying"
Have you been hibernating for the last 8 years under Obama? |
AsleepInTheBack
07.21.16 | Again, I'm just going off the press in the UK, and the press have always loved Obama or at least ignored his blunders that affect the US and not the UK, so I can't really comment. What I can comment on are the offensive comments Trump continually makes and the unprofessional way he conducts himself, as well as the (in my opinion) racist policies he advocates. |
LambsBread
07.21.16 | "While "regressive leftists" might exist, it's definitely possible to be used as a form of immature name calling."
You should probably read the thread before thinking people are going to care about your judgement of it. Saying "You are a regressive leftist for ignoring every available poll on Muslim's intolerance regarding homosexuals, women, apostates and atheists. You are tolerating intolerence"
Is nothing like saying "You disagree with me. You are (insert name here) (ramble on about personal insults for 5 more sentences)."
If you can find me doing the latter, ok, but you can't, so stop criticizing me for making valid arguments. Just because you don't like the way I agressively force you to realize you are wrong doesn't mean I am being immature and name calling (the one times I came close was when talking to SgtSchock for a few comments, still didn't even namecall they way Chuck/others are. I really don't know any way to respond to someone not knowing what Afghanistan is, than to say they are too ignorant to be discussing the Islam debate.) |
LambsBread
07.21.16 | None of his policies are at all racist whatsoever. Please name some you think are racist and i'll explain. |
Conmaniac
07.21.16 | proof that Lambs will make anything into an argument lmao |
LambsBread
07.21.16 | uh i'm defending myself from allegations of an argument you brought up. Go away. |
Conmaniac
07.21.16 | build a wall |
Futures
07.21.16 | arguing with a man that can't spell tongue |
AsleepInTheBack
07.21.16 | I'm not gonna get into this as I can't be arsed and I know my arguments will be misinterpreted as can all too easily happen on these forums. But all his shit about 'lets build a wall' and the ridiculous focus on immigration, make the US great again and the plethora of offensive sexist, racist and anti-disabled person comments I've seem him make over the last few months is shocking. I just don't trust that man to run a country. Add to that the stuff about a Muslim register (yes I know the coverage on that is unclear) and its just a tad worrying.
Not that I can talk, the UKs fucked after the Brexit vote anyway |
LambsBread
07.21.16 | T O U N G E - Tongue.
Ding! |
AsleepInTheBack
07.21.16 | Also I love how you side step my comments on his professionalism and offensive comments |
Sinternet
07.21.16 | Lambs why dont you go back to whining in the forums like a little bitch instead of acting like a moron on the main site |
LambsBread
07.21.16 | Enforcing immigration laws isn't racist. The irony is you are from Europe which has far stricter immigration than the US... yet you are calling him racist for simply trying to do the exact same things your country already does...?
No, what is truly and blatantly racist is "liberals" thinking Mexicans should get to have open access to the country over every single other race who is trying to immigrate LEGALLY. Breaking laws to benefit one race is the epitome of racist policy.(I know Mexican isn't a "race", but you know what I mean).
Most all of those "misogynistic" comments are taken out of context. He wasn't mocking the guy's disability, he didn't even know he had one, he was mocking him groveling. You really have to be gullible to think a Presidential candidate is going to openly mock the disabled.
You've been lied to heavily. THe reason Trump has so much support is because people are sick of decent candidates being tarnished by bullshit soundbites that are taken out of context, precisely like you are trying to do. |
Conmaniac
07.21.16 | Lambs does a great job of taking someone's argument, twisting it so that it's easier for him to argue against and ignoring the valid criticisms the person actually brought up. |
LambsBread
07.21.16 | Islam is a belief, not a race. I haven't ever supported a complete Muslim ban, I get that many Muslims are just nominal Muslims who don't follow through on the terrible things the Quran preaches (death to homosexuals etc), but banning refugees from countries with high risk of terrorists is just common sense (which is what he backpeddled to eventually). |
LambsBread
07.21.16 | "Lambs does a great job of taking someone's argument, twisting it so that it's easier for him to argue against and ignoring the valid criticisms the person actually brought up."
The fact that you can't even point out an example of me doing this shows you are just frustrated that you are losing the debate (or can't even debate for 10 seconds without exposing your ignorance). |
LambsBread
07.21.16 | There's some valid ways to criticize Trump, yall aren't even coming close to doing it though, and that's exactly why he is winning. Calling someone a racist over and over because you can't debate his policies is the most childish/petulant behavior I can think of.
The problem is, Liberals are in no position to criticize him, because all of the bad things about Trump are even more true about them. They can't bash him for ignoring the constitution. They can't bash him for being friends with the Clintons or being a former Democrat. They can't bash him for supporting abortions when they support partial birth and third trimester abortions. They can't criticize him for attacking free speech, freedom of internet, or privacy, becasuse they have been leading the charge on all these attacks for the last eight years.
They (you, regressive leftists) are out of decent criticisms, so they need to call him a meanie. They think they look intelligent by using various invalid forms of "meanie" like "racist, bigot, xenophobe, misogynist" all which completely lack meaning in the way they use the terms (as i've been over, with your accusation that enforcing immigration laws is "racist"). |
Conmaniac
07.22.16 | want me to point out an example?
let's look at Asleep's comment again...
"anti-disabled comments"
your response: "he was mocking him groveling. You really have to be gullible to think a Presidential candidate is going to openly mock the disabled."
"sexist comments"
your response: "Most all of those "misogynistic" comments are taken out of context." (aka it was sexist out of context so that makes it okay to say)
"build a wall"
your response: "Enforcing immigration laws isn't racist. The irony is you are from Europe which has far stricter immigration than the US... yet you are calling him racist for simply trying to do the exact same things your country already does...?
No, what is truly and blatantly racist is "liberals" thinking Mexicans should get to have open access to the country over every single other race who is trying to immigrate LEGALLY. Breaking laws to benefit one race is the epitome of racist policy.(I know Mexican isn't a "race", but you know what I mean)." (you completely side-step the fact that the whole premise of "building a wall" is extremely racist and ignorant. instead you choose to argue about immigration policies in the UK compared to the US.) |
AsleepInTheBack
07.22.16 | To be honest I think the current approach of the UK to immigration is racist too, or at least, from personal experience, incites a racist attitude in members of the public which just isn't worth it (I would explain this in more detail but I just can't be bothered). Additionally, his idea of sending back all illegal immigrants and asking them to enter legally (the last I checked that what he said) is just impractical. A ridiculous chunk of the US workforce in certain areas is make up of illegal immigrants, and sending them all back would cripple several areas. Its ideologically sound, but practically flawed.
Yes many of his comments are taken out of context, but a huge chunk of them are still offensive even in context.
To be honest I'm not clued in on the whole disability comment, all I know is that it sparked a lot of controversy at the time so admittedly I could be wrong on that one.
That stuff on Muslims is just bull. No other county in the world (to my knowledge) adopts such a radical step as that because its disproportionate, and stereotypical/racist (I could give you a more nuanced argument, but I want to go to sleep).
I really haven't been lied to heavily. A lot of the issues I have with the guy aren't just comments I've taken out of context. His whole attitude/bravado and his policies, amongst other things, just don't sit well with me at all, as well as with pretty much every other person I've talked to about it in the UK. We honestly just don't get Trumps popularity and it scares the shit out of us |
AsleepInTheBack
07.22.16 | and cheers Connor for ripping up his argument where I was too tired to notice its flaws |
DeadGuy
07.22.16 | i'm so triggered by your different opinions |
climactic
07.22.16 | "THe reason Trump has so much support is because people are sick of decent candidates being tarnished by bullshit soundbites that are taken out of context"
lol. no
for every "intelligent" trump supporter who legitimately listens to and agrees with his stances on trade, isolationism etc, there are 20 who hear BUILD THE WALL! BAN ALL MUSLIMS! SCREW POLITICAL CORRECTNESS! and get all riled up in the nationalistic fervor. dumb people LOVE the soundbites (his supporters, and yes liberals too). as much as i think hes a horrible candidate, i dont think trump is a legitimate racist, although a massive chunk of his base is |
climactic
07.22.16 | i guarantee at least half of his supporters still dont even know the basic key points and issues about free trade/nato/nafta |
Snake.
07.22.16 | i guarantee that trump himself doesn't know either |
Futures
07.22.16 | i guarantee you don't know either |
Snake.
07.22.16 | i guarantee you don't know either |
climactic
07.22.16 | yeah he does. hes not as dumb as he makes himself out to be. sadly a large part of his campaign has been pandering and playing into the fears of stupid people who finally have an outlet |
LambsBread
07.22.16 | "sexist comments"your response: "Most all of those "misogynistic" comments are taken out of context." (aka it was sexist out of context so that makes it okay to say)
(you completely side-step the fact that the whole premise of "building a wall" is extremely racist and ignorant. instead you choose to argue about immigration policies in the UK compared to the US.)"
You didn't even explain how my comments re disabled were superficial, so moving on...
Misogyny: No, that is not what I said. I said if you actually view the statements in their context they are NOT misogynistic. For example, he once quoted a rockstar saying "women want to be abused" (or something along those lines), and the media took the quote out of context to make it sound like he was saying the statement, not quoting someone.
Racism/building a wall: The whole premise of building a wall is not at all racist...what a bullshit circular-reasoning argument. What in the world are you honestly talking about? He wants to build a wall to stop ILLEGAL immigration, how exactly is that inherently racist? You seem to be missing that He is still letting Mexicans immigrate here LEGALLY. He isn't discriminating against any race, he is discriminating against people BREAKING THE LAW.
There are 20 million people in the US not paying (full) taxes, committing identity theft, who don't even have a criminal record if they commit a crime. These are problems that have nothing to do with race, which building a wall would address. You using circular reasoning to say building a wall must be 100% about race, when there's a number of other problems you are blatantly ignoring, is absurd. You are just calling him a racist because you disagree with his idea. There's nothing racist about stopping illegal immigration by using a wall... you are completely confused and making illogical circular-reasoning arguments: "building a wall is racist because building a wall is racist", is not a logical argument.
|
Snake.
07.22.16 | "a large part of his campaign has been pandering and playing into the fears of stupid people who finally have an outlet"
truuuu
i guess when his supporters say that he speaks his mind they really mean that they're tired of listening to politicians use big words because they couldn't ever wrap their head around what they fucking mean
hence why trump said "until we figure out what the hell is going on" in favor or "after the recents attacks in paris" |
LambsBread
07.22.16 | "A ridiculous chunk of the US workforce in certain areas is make up of illegal immigrants, and sending them all back would cripple several areas. Its ideologically sound, but practically flawed."
There's this thing called unemployment in the US... Not sure what is practical about ignoring the rule of law when you think it is convenient, sounds like lazy demagoguery to me.
"but a huge chunk of them are still offensive even in context. " Yet, you can't name a single one and are hiding behind vague criticisms you can't prove.
You are bizarrely admitting the UK media has heavily confused you while simultaneously arguing you understand Trump better than I do. Really, you've been lied to heavily. You can't even point out a single policy or quote he's said that is truly racist, yet "he is still a racist". Like I said, this is the ONLY TACTIC THE REGRESSIVE LEFT HAS LEFT, CALL PEOPLE RACIST BEFORE THEY CAN SHOW OTHERS EVIDENCE.
This isn't thinking rationally, you are just hating someone based on rumors about them... (again, i'm not a huge trump fan, your critique is just blatantly off base to anyone who actually follows this closely and doesn't blindly hate Trump based on out-of-context speech clips and slander articles) You have fallen hook line and sinker to the regressive left's only effective tactic.
Really, he is going to be a big pain in the ass to BBC and other crony-capitalist media stations, and they are trying to bring him down. Believe what you want, yall have no idea what's going on if you think you can judge our election based on a few soundbites. |
LambsBread
07.22.16 | "incites a racist attitude in members of the public which just isn't worth it "
There's some argument here, but the fact is if Democrats didn't act like the common-sense policy of securing borders is racist, then it would have happened long ago and there would be no illegal immigrants to play the race card in the country. Furthermore, given your reasoning to this point, you are probably just assuming most reasonable republicans who want to follow the rule of law are racist. Sure there are some racists supporting deportation, but there are also some child molesters who support the welfare state... this isn't a logical argument. |
LambsBread
07.22.16 | "ol. no
for every "intelligent" trump supporter who legitimately listens to and agrees with his stances on trade, isolationism etc, there are 20 who hear BUILD THE WALL! BAN ALL MUSLIMS! SCREW POLITICAL CORRECTNESS! and get all riled up in the nationalistic fervor. dumb people LOVE the soundbites (his supporters, and yes liberals too). as much as i think hes a horrible candidate, i dont think trump is a legitimate racist, although a massive chunk of his base is"
All assumptions, no evidence.
Funny how people constantly accusing others of stereotyping constantly stereotype others in this way.
"i guarantee at least half of his supporters still dont even know the basic key points and issues about free trade/nato/nafta"
Look, you did it again. |
guitarded_chuck
07.22.16 | did melanie think shed get away with that tho |
LambsBread
07.22.16 | This whole anti-trump rhetoric is hilariously ironic.
"Trump and his supporters are all idiots. How do I know? Well i'm repeating what I heard on TV. Yeah they are all stereotyping idiots who don't know how to analyze evidence... i'm basing this off of my anecdotal experiences...they really just don't understand logic (insert ad hominem, circular reasoning, or strawman argument here). He really loves to make everything about race.... [two sentences later] stopping illegal immigration is ALL about race! Omg look at his baseless character attacks that fucking orange skinned idiot with small fingers"
At this rate, he's gonna win. I'm not completely happy about it, and yall have yourselves to blame for being so facetious, hypocritical and petulant throughout the entire election.
At least he will uphold the second amendment and not sell out innocent police for votes I guess. |
ShadowRemains
07.22.16 | "i dont think trump is a legitimate racist, although a massive chunk of his base is"
this is the problem, even after he's gone, we're stuck with these trash heaps that his movement brought out of the shadows |
LambsBread
07.22.16 | Yeah let's all ignore the elephant in the room and ignore how Democratic black people have KILLED innocent white people, and pretend Trump turned this country racist, not the Democrats who have been selling White Amerikkka paranoia for the past 3 decades and have blatantly and shamelessly lied about many of the cases that started the BLM movement. |
Jots
07.22.16 | Lambs, would you say the US's comparably declining education rating correlates with the type of people they elect? |
LambsBread
07.22.16 | Yeah, our public schools are absolute shit. They don't teach mathematics or science effectively and they are just liberal-indoctrination in regards to social studies. Our history classes are tragically disgusting, i've met Europeans who know more about American government than I did as a recent college graduate who studied politics. |
ShadowRemains
07.22.16 | "and pretend Trump turned this country racist"
trump didn't turn the country into racists, he gave a voice to them |
LambsBread
07.22.16 | That being said, I won't vote for Trump because it seems to be a vote for racism in some people's deluded minds. Gary Johnson will get my vote probably, but I am still rooting for Trump heavily over Hillary... people have no idea how much scientific thinking and logic in forming public policy is going to be hurt by her PC hysteria. |
Conmaniac
07.22.16 | building a wall is somewhat racist but it's such an ignorant, unrealistic stance to have on immigration policy. |
LambsBread
07.22.16 | Calling Trump supporters racist is just lazy and presumptive. Yeah, there are some, but again, there are child molesting democrats and I don't go around calling all Democrats child molesters.
Is he speaking out against white supremacy, not really, is he openly advocating racist policies, no. He is a racist to the same extent Obama was, he will not speak out about bad (EG racist) things when it benefits him in the polls.
To assign blame to Trump, or to Republicans solely for racism is not helping anything. Racism in this country is so complex, and there's not really any one group or person to blame... that's what we all need to realize or this blame game is never going to stop, and it will lead to race/civil war. |
ShadowRemains
07.22.16 | "That being said, I won't vote for Trump because it seems to be a vote for racism in some people's deluded minds."
have you even seen a trump rally? give me a break with "deluded minds" |
LambsBread
07.22.16 | "building a wall is somewhat racist but it's such an ignorant, unrealistic stance to have on immigration policy." You realize Hillary supported a wall earlier in her career?
I don't see how it's unrealistic. It's a fucking wall. They built a bigger one in ancient China. I think the unrealistic stance on immigration policy is open borders combined with a welfare state. Social security is already unsustainable. Leftists seriously have no concern to debt or how any of their ideas get paid for... Republicans try to solve these problems and are called evil for trying to have sustainable policies. |
LambsBread
07.22.16 | Did I say i'm voting for people at a Trump rally or (not) voting for Trump himself?
Voting for Trump, as he's explained his platform, is not in any way racist. This is just a fact, building a wall isn't racist, if you think it is you completely lack logical thinking skills (again child molesters tend to be Democrats - means nothing). For the 100th time, this is the only tactic the Democrats have left, call anyone pointing out the stupidity of their policies racist.
If you aren't going to vote for a candidate because of their supporters you might want to apply that to Hillary and her supporters calling for death to innocent cops...
Voting for someone based on how you anecdotally view their supporters based of the tiny glimpse the media gives you of them is absolutely absurd and irrational... especially in Trump's case because he has basically talked shit to the media the entire election and it's obvious they have incentive to slander him. |
Ignimbrite
07.22.16 | y'all should read this shit and explain to me how donald fucking trump would be a competent president
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/20/magazine/how-donald-trump-picked-his-running-mate.html |
LambsBread
07.22.16 | If you honestly are trusting NYTimes on Donald Trump at this point, you have not been paying attention. I'm ready for an article based on hearsay and anonymous sources. |
LambsBread
07.22.16 | "But according to the Kasich adviser (who spoke only under the condition that he not be named)"
first paragraph, wow. It amazes me they even waste their time writing articles based on anonymous sources like this, even more amazing people read them and share them. Worst form of journalism imaginable. |
ShadowRemains
07.22.16 | and yet all i basically see here from you is a bunch of fox news/breitbart talking points |
LambsBread
07.22.16 | That's a completely reductive and disingenuous summary of my statements. Not hard to jump into a conversation every 50 comments and say "YOU WATCH FOX NEWS!", it's actually one of the most played out debate tactics among pseudo-intellectual/frustrated leftists. Let me know if you actually want to respond to my points line by line (won't happen). |
ShadowRemains
07.22.16 | you sound more frustrated than anyone else in this thread, frankly it's just a necessary extension for you since you were canned from the forums |
LambsBread
07.22.16 | Interesting baseless presumption about me, very mature and impressive. Yet, it just sounds like an excuse for avoiding a substantive debate that you would be embarrassed in.
Seriously let me know if you can do more than use strawman arguments (FOX NEWS) and say "I know you are but what am I".
PS Breitbart isn't even pro-Trump lol |
LambsBread
07.22.16 | "guys look at this groundbreaking article on TRUMP. EXPOSED!"
"uh the entire thing is based on an anonymous source"
"lol he's pointing out the article is journalistic trash. HE CLEARLY WATCHES FOX NEWS!!!! YEAH! you are so frustrated dude. so mad bro" |
ShadowRemains
07.22.16 | "PS Breitbart isn't even pro-Trump lol"
i'm talking about all of your crusades against "leftists" and whatever else that doesn't follow your own ideology
you've made it crystal clear on the forums that it's pointless to engage you in conversation since your head is way too far up your own ass, but you'll just play it off as if people are "afraid to debate you" or whatever other copout
in addition, if you were actually a good debater, you wouldn't have to lie about your credentials or accomplishments constantly...as someone in a scientific field, that's usually one of the first clues that someone is actually full of shit when they're trying to make a point |
LambsBread
07.22.16 | I don't read/watch Breitbart or Fox. You're presumptuous and bad at it.
Keep rattling off the excuses. You can't debate me. People who can't debate love making excuses about how debating would be a waste of time because their opponent is too absurd.
The real question is why are you even in the thread if you are only here to scream your opinion, then retreat? If I was as absurd as you say you would simply ignore me. The reality is you want to be smart but can't actually back it up by defending a single one of your points, so you name-call. Please stop wasting my time and derailing the thread. |
ShadowRemains
07.22.16 | "The real question is why are you even in the thread if you are only here to scream your opinion, then retreat?"
that's funny because i mostly only see you talking to yourself in here |
Piglet
07.22.16 | i thought breitbart was notorious for being pro trump |
LambsBread
07.22.16 | I'm responding to people whether you are bright enough to see that or not. (I can prove it: quote me and i'll quote who I was responding to). Stop wasting my time and stop whining. |
ShadowRemains
07.22.16 | "I don't read/watch Breitbart or Fox. You're presumptuous and bad at it."
you're also a liar and bad at it, so what's it going to be? |
ShadowRemains
07.22.16 | "Stop wasting my time"
no |
LambsBread
07.22.16 | They certainly lean right, but many of their most notorious authors and executives are vehemently anti-trump (look at anything Ben Shapiro has said in the last year.) |
LambsBread
07.22.16 | It's going to be i'm ignoring you from here on out because you are petty and I don't care that you say untruthful things about me. You're just a fly i'm trying to get to go away. |
ShadowRemains
07.22.16 | lol, who's bitching now?
actually i'd prefer if you would just go straight to hell |
Piglet
07.22.16 | Didn't Ben Shapiro leave Breitbart for the very reason that they were pro-trump?
The only other journalist for Breitbart I know is Milo and hahah yeah |
Sharenge
07.22.16 | if I wanted to watch the world burn, I would vote for Trump.... the tough part is deciding if that's what I really want or not |
LambsBread
07.22.16 | http://www.breitbart.com/author/ben-shapiro/
|
Piglet
07.22.16 | Yeah he resigned on March the 14th because he thought Breitbart's treatment of Michelle Fields was unfair and underlined their trump bias. |
LambsBread
07.22.16 | Oh wow, well like I said, I don't read or listen to Breitbart. |
SgtShock
07.22.16 | Find those sources yet, Lambs? Or did you come up with more quotes I never said? I'm still waiting for an argument backed up by data on policy effectiveness. I'm also still wondering why you wouldn't consider Canada's experiences with Muslims but for some reason considered Afghanistan more applicable to the United States. Are you going to actually back up your position? |
LambsBread
07.22.16 | I've answered all these questions multiple times. There are no "sources" on a policy that has never been tried. What there are sources on is the beliefs of Muslims. And a huge percent of them, tens of millions of them, are literally telling us they would rather have the right to beat women, kill cartoonists, kill gay people, etc. than to live in a secular democracy where this kind of barbarian shit is outlawed by life in prison.
Why don't I care about Canada? Maybe because the US has nearly as many illegal immigrants as Canada does total people? |
Conmaniac
07.22.16 | "I don't see how it's unrealistic. It's a fucking wall. They built a bigger one in ancient China."
im dead |
AsleepInTheBack
07.22.16 | Any intellectual debate in this thread died a long time ago. Also, I love how Lambs calls people out for a lack of evidence (sorry mate, its an internet thread on a music site, I can't be fucked) and then doesn't use any himself for the majority of his points and argues that we've all been blinded by the medias allegedly anti-trump coverage, possibly one of the vaguest and most unsubstantiated arguments you could make |
Storm In A Teacup
07.22.16 | They must realize you could still go around the wall no matter what. |
torts
07.22.16 | fuckign gunga |
porcupinetheater
07.22.16 | Great Wall of China fun facts!
-It took decades to build
-It was intended for defense against an actual invading army (instead of racist xenophobic misguided and misinformed beliefs)
-It didn't work! |
Storm In A Teacup
07.22.16 | Stein/Johnson 2016 |
porcupinetheater
07.22.16 | I'll take a Stein, hold the Johnson, please! One Stein, a la carte |
ShadowRemains
07.22.16 | "Great Wall of China fun facts!"
and it was also the 14th fucking century, let's not forget that nice nugget |
porcupinetheater
07.22.16 | Also can't forget it utilized mass slave labor.
Really, it was just an all around rousing success and is really something to be emulated. |
Piglet
07.22.16 | the Great bloody Dingo Fence of five thousand and five hundred kilometres long bloody well works the trick and mexicans have the same amount of limbs as dingos so it'll bloody well work |
Evreaia
07.22.16 | "PS Breitbart isn't even pro-Trump lol"
They fucking suck his cock every bloody article. Not to mention one of their writers actively promotes Trump every chance he gets (the faggot, forgot his name).
|
Cryptkeeper
07.22.16 | "PS Breitbart isn't even pro-Trump lol"
LOL |
LambsBread
07.22.16 | "Lambs calls people out for a lack of evidence (sorry mate, its an internet thread on a music site, I can't be fucked) and then doesn't use any himself "
I've posted numerous polls and cited numerous studies on the practices of Islamic countries. Whether you are smart enough to realize it or not is another issue. You're right though the debate ended a long time ago when you regressive leftists got mad when I pointed out your tolerance of homophobic Islam is asinine, and literally all any of you could do was throw a hissy fit and namecall. |
DominionMM1
07.22.16 | "And a huge percent of them, tens of millions of them, are literally telling us they would rather have the right to beat women, kill cartoonists, kill gay people, etc. than to live in a secular democracy where this kind of barbarian shit is outlawed by life in prison."
source on that number please |
Evreaia
07.22.16 | There's no point in arguing with the left. Just look at the whole twitter fiasco with Milo. |
LambsBread
07.22.16 | Sorry I forgot your average "liberal" has never built anything in his life and building a bird house is the accomplishment of a lifetime to these type of people. To people who can wipe their own ass, building a wall in th 21st century is not an unrealistic idea. Your arguments against it are hilariously dumb.
"They built the Great Wall of china centuries ago!" Uh, yeah, that makes the feasibility of making one now, with vastly improved technology, more likely and easier, not less likely and harder.
"Some people will go around the wall!" Yes and more wont, most illegal immigrants come right over the border.
"Great Wall of china was created with slave labor" yeah we have something called a crane and public spending. Dear god.
Best of all is how none of you have a better solution than a wall. You actually advocate for open borders and aren't bright enough to realize open borders combined with a welfare state is bankrupting the country.
Typical Sputnik, bunch of naysaying haters who call others dumb who have 10x their IQ and knowledge.
Your guys knowledge of the world is flat out embarassinf, your arrogance and confidence in your ignorant point of views even more so.
But yeah let's listen to goofy Canadians preach about public policy when the US has nearly as many illegal immigrants as Canada does people TOTAL.
Please just stop embarrassing yourselves and avoid politics. logic and you guys is like water and oil. |
LambsBread
07.22.16 | I've already posted numerous sources. Pull your head out of the sand and look at Muslims support of shariah law. |
StarlessCore
07.22.16 | yea there should be a wall on our southern border
u kno like all the other freaking developed countries that SECURE THEIR BORDERS PHYSICALLY |
DominionMM1
07.22.16 | i'm not seeing any sources for the actual numbers though. maybe you could repost them. |
Evreaia
07.22.16 | "u kno like all the other freaking developed countries that SECURE THEIR BORDERS PHYSICALLY"
Practically no European country does this anymore,
oh wait!!!!! |
TheNotrap
07.22.16 | Both mediocre candidates. |
LambsBread
07.22.16 | Of course there's no point arguing with the left, it's just fun to break them out of their childish delusions that they are good and/or smart people and watch them perform mental gymnastics to get their asinine policies to have some semblance of intelligence.
"I am a good person because I'm tolerant"
"No you aren't, you tolerate intolerant people. You literally advocate for violence by supporting and defending violent people who persecute and opress women's gays and atheists."
"No! That's not true! Liar! Racist! Devil! Devil begone! Ahhhhhhh! Someone help me! Where are the rest of the leftists?!? Alone we are just ignorant people who insult others to avoid the topic of our own ignorance. Together we are strong! Regressive leftists unite and let's rattle off dumb arguments about the Great Wall of china and how we don't know how to build a do-it-yourself bookcase"
|
LambsBread
07.22.16 | Pew did an extensive study on Islam. Anyone who hasn't read it and is talking is embarrassing themselves (literally everyone but me and one other guy) |
zaruyache
07.22.16 | "open borders combined with a welfare state is bankrupting the country"
And here i was thinking were were in debt because we owe China trillions. |
LambsBread
07.22.16 | Pew did an extensive study on Islam. Anyone who hasn't read it and is talking is embarrassing themselves (literally everyone but me and one other guy) |
StarlessCore
07.22.16 | "Practically no European country does this anymore"
greece bulgaria macedonia turkey and more have ramped up physical security border fences during this immigration crisis
also, stop using europe as the standard that everyone has to follow
plenty of other countries like australia and new zealand take security seriously
its a complete waste to not define your country's borders physically, canada does it as well
it's not about deporting 11 million immigrants most of whom actually do work and pay tax, it's about keeping more undocumented people from entering the country where a. we don't know who they are b. we don't know what/who they are bringing c. we don't have record of their entry/exit which is a huge security risk etc
i understand being against mass deportation because mass deportation doesnt make sense
but a physical border and increased security around all our borders in the country, especially during a time now with heightened terrorism is completely legit, not racist, and not that expensive compared to some of the other ways our fed has spent money in recent years
please people stop acting like people who are pro border security are racist bigots you're morons |
LambsBread
07.22.16 | Lol we borrow money from China to pay for our massive entitlement programs... I really hope you are kidding... |
DominionMM1
07.22.16 | "And here i was thinking were were in debt because we owe China trillions."
nope. it's muslims and mexicans. tens of millions of them out to get us. |
StarlessCore
07.22.16 | we borrow money from china for everything, entitlements are not solely the cause of the debt
the interest on the debt is the biggest problem. absolutely horrific and inefficient |
SgtShock
07.22.16 | Lambs still hasn't provided proof that these policies would prove effective. He provided a poll on Islamic attitudes, worldwide. However, he has yet to link immigration policy to social problems on any level -- neither has he shown how Trump's immigration policies will be successful. It's funny because all I'm asking for is a few sources from lamb and after -- what, three days now? He's no closer to actually debating in an intellectual manner. I gotta say man, you're just like Donald Trump: All hyperbole and hate. No substance. |
Evreaia
07.22.16 | "greece bulgaria macedonia turkey and more have ramped up physical security border fences during this immigration crisis"
Turkey isn't party of the EU, and will never be if Hitler, excuse me, Erdogan reinstates the death penalty. The other countries you named are on the border of the EU, 85% of the EU countries don't have border security. But that doesn't really matter because;
"also, stop using europe as the standard that everyone has to follow"
I was incredibly sarcastic with my comment, not sure how you missed that. |
DominionMM1
07.22.16 | "Pew did an extensive study on Islam."
which one? they've done a fuckload of them. |
zakalwe
07.22.16 | Just to go back to an earlier point, I was in Newham, London earlier today. Forest Gate.
No fucking way are them stats true. I'll say this is the actual breakdown
White English - 10%
White Other - 20%
Black - 20%
Pakistani/Indian/Arab- 50%
That is a ridiculously rough guesstimate but in terms of the Muslim population I would honestly put my mortgage on it being well over 50%
|
SgtShock
07.22.16 | Also, comparing the Great Wall of china to the border between Mexico and Texas: That landmark that was built for a tyrannical God-emperor that ultimately China's enemies ended walking around? Wow. Next thing I'll hear in this thread is that all people who practice Islam are the equivalent of Nazis. Oh wait, that's already been said. |
StarlessCore
07.22.16 | i didnt see the sarcasm I guess
and yeah, europe does everything backwards, and not having border security is horrific imo, especially in a time like this
the countries you are saying that dont have border security have all ramped it up recently because of the migration crap
of which a lot of problems are stemming
sweden you know the country liberals claim is the greatest socialist paradise on earth has a massive rape problem already and with the immigration it's spiraled out of control |
Evreaia
07.22.16 | "sweden you know the country liberals claim is the greatest socialist paradise on earth has a massive rape problem already"
Its not only Sweden that has this problem, every country in the EU has it. Look at Germany, Belgium, etc. Practically everyday we get new news of rape reports, and that's only what we hear off.
Sadly Europe has the dumbest politicians of the entire world, they'll never fix it sadly. Europe is a fucking dying ship.
|
StarlessCore
07.22.16 | i didnt say only sweden had the problem
sweden's version of the problem is perhaps the worst though just based on the data |
Evreaia
07.22.16 | touche |
LambsBread
07.22.16 | "And here i was thinking were were in debt because we owe China trillions."
"nope. it's muslims and mexicans. tens of millions of them out to get us."
I'm honestly amazed you are this dim. You think we got into debt by getting into debt? Lol. What do you think we are buying Chinese finger traps with treasury money? Bahahhahahahahhahahha
If you actually think open borders and a massive entitlement program didn't cause the debt? Hahahahahhahaha you think anyone who points this out is racist against Mexicans LOL
Omfg I can't breathe |
Keyblade
07.22.16 | "nope. it's muslims and mexicans. tens of millions of them out to get us."
odd how he's not worried about the literal tens of millions of american christains and the majority of republicans (57%) who are in favour of dismantling the constitution entirely and replacing it with a christian theocracy
http://big.assets.huffingtonpost.com/toplines_churchstate_0403042013.pdf
http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/pdf/2015/PPP_Release_National_22415.pdf
so something like 100 million people hold these views...if we were to extrapolate from a couple of polls that is
or the fact that most christian denominations in america are more intolerant than muslims when it comes to lgbt people and their marriage
https://d1ai9qtk9p41kl.cloudfront.net/assets/mc/_external/2016_06/poll.png?h=768&w=418
i mean since we're using polls as a barometer to judge ppl, which i think is a bad way of doing things. 57% of republicans are in favor of turning america into a theocracy, and they have infinitely more political influence than muslims to achieve this goal and have been slowly doing so. but apparently we gotta be afraid of syrian refugees |
LambsBread
07.22.16 | "We arent in massive debt because of open borders and massive entitlement programs that 20 million illegal immigrants don't pay for, we are in debt because we are in debt"
How did you guys honestly pass fifth grade? |
LambsBread
07.22.16 | 5th grade social studies test:
Why is the US in serious debt?
A) massive entitlement programs
B) 20 million illegal immigrants getting a free ride
C) all of the above
D) cuz we in debt and China, China and China want tha money so we're in debt cuz China |
StarlessCore
07.22.16 | lambsbread 76% of illegals work and pay tax
estimates and data from numerous different outlets all agree that if you mass deported the illegals there would be a. a tax revenue crisis in many states b. price of many goods increase as many illegals work labor jobs for lower pay, making the products able to be priced lower
the majority of the 20 trillion dollar debt is in no way because of illegal immigrants feeding off the system, you are laughably mistaken |
SgtShock
07.22.16 | I'm glad someone brought some sources to the table. Lambs, please debate like an intellectual. |
StarlessCore
07.22.16 | "If you actually think open borders and a massive entitlement program didn't cause the debt?"
have you ever looked at official fiscal operating budgets, spending allocations and congressional budgets by year
cause youre wrong so it sounds like you havent
if you dont think the majority of illegals in the country pay tax you are just wrong there is no argument none absolutely zero the majority of them pay tax period there is NO DEBATE |
DominionMM1
07.22.16 | "If you actually think open borders and a massive entitlement program didn't cause the debt?"
so you're saying that illegal immigrants and social welfare programs have caused a $19 trillion debt? can you honestly do basic arithmetic? |
DominionMM1
07.22.16 | "odd how he's not worried about the literal tens of millions of american christains and the majority of republicans (57%) who are in favour of dismantling the constitution entirely and replacing it with a christian theocracy"
why? they're (mostly) white and speak english |
StarlessCore
07.22.16 | like ive said before, lambs is the dumbest on the site
atrocious views, horrible arguments, hes worse than genocide
like if you think illegal immigrants are the major cause of the current 21 trillion dollar operating debt, you are a huge huge huge ignoramous |
StarlessCore
07.22.16 | hes looking up on google rn and hes sitting their awestruck cause he probs thought no illegals pay any tax and all are on welfare
simply not even close to reality
its ok tho, theres plenty of ignorant fools who probably think illegals dont pay tax |
LambsBread
07.22.16 | Lol only 5 million free loaders, no problem there. Dear god y'all are amazing. Did I say the majority of the debt came from illegal immigrants? No. But if you think 5 million freeloaders it's not a problem you are a fool.
A revenue crisis? Dear god. Do you know what unemployment is? Do you even get that unemployment is higher because you are giving jobs away to illegal citizens committing identity theft, no, you clearly don't.
Yeah I'm sure open borders and millions of free loaders is a sustainable system, I forgot it wasn't the entitlement programs that people like you favor that have us in unsustainable debt, no it must have been Donald trump, not Obama who doubled the debt in 2 terms.
It's sad because all your opinions have a superficial appeal to them, you actually think you made a good point until I come along and shit all over your terrible arguments. |
Keyblade
07.22.16 | dude is ridiculously reactionary when it comes to innocuous and inconsequential subjects like music and basketball what were u expecting lol |
LambsBread
07.22.16 | "hes looking up on google rn and hes sitting their awestruck cause he probs thought no illegals pay any tax and all are on welfare"
^^^^^It's sad because all your opinions have a superficial appeal to them, you actually think you made a good point until I come along and shit all over your terrible arguments. [2] lmfao |
LambsBread
07.22.16 | "like if you think illegal immigrants are the major cause of the current 21 trillion dollar operating debt, you are a huge huge huge ignoramous" Notice I never said that, never said anything remotely like that, and you are just dumb enough to think anyone who points out entitlement system is abused/unfair is saying "GIT RID OF DA MEXICANS!" |
Keyblade
07.22.16 | lambs the type of dude to get in a scrap irl in a discussion about which is better between pepsi and coke |
CaliggyJack
07.22.16 | Coke's better fuck all you Pepsi lovers |
StarlessCore
07.22.16 | "Lol only 5 million free loaders, no problem there. Dear god y'all are amazing. Did I say the majority of the debt came from illegal immigrants? No. But if you think 5 million freeloaders it's not a problem you are a fool."
1. didn't say that wasn't a problem
2. there are plenty of wealthy people that hide money or income so its not taxed causing revenue shortages
3. plenty of legal residents evade tax and commit tax fraud
4. you kept citing them as a cause of the current debt crisis, so excuse me if to us that seemed as though youre saying they are one of the main causes behind it, which they are not, and data proves it
"A revenue crisis? Dear god. Do you know what unemployment is? Do you even get that unemployment is higher because you are giving jobs away to illegal citizens committing identity theft, no, you clearly don't."
1. absolutely a revenue crisis if you deport 11 million illegals, there is zero argument i wont even discuss it further ive seen the analytics and data from organizations mass deportation would leave us with less federal tax revenue there is no argument
2. i do understand that unemployment is higher when illegal immigrants get jobs, relax
"It's sad because all your opinions have a superficial appeal to them, you actually think you made a good point until I come along and shit all over your terrible arguments."
there is not an identifiable substantive way in which you 'shit on my arguments'
and again, the unsustainable debt is from a lot more than just tax payer funded entitlements, while that is a large part of the issue, it is not the sole reason, it's the level of spending on everything combined matched against the revenues we take in
" forgot it wasn't the entitlement programs that people like you favor that have us in unsustainable debt, no it must have been Donald trump, not Obama who doubled the debt in 2 terms."
essentially agreed
|
LambsBread
07.22.16 | Basically, yall are exhausting the "call him racist" tactic
and have gone to your only other tactic "strawman arguments".
This is the saddest part about regressive leftists. They argue with the wall, then act like they are humiliating their opponent in debate by putting words in his mouth. They think because they can counter Nazi idealogy they have sucessfully dealt a death blow to the Trump campaign, then they turn on the news and wonder "BUH!?!?!? how come he's still winnin?!?!?!? omg Merica is Nazi! I KNEW IT!"
|
LambsBread
07.22.16 | Good ol starless core. 1st comment "LOL LAMBS IS THE DUMBEST USER EVER ON THE SITE HAHAH IDIOT"
next comment "Oh, I mean, I know you didn't say that, let us rationally discuss this in a mature manner."
get lost you punk |
StarlessCore
07.22.16 | "Notice I never said that, never said anything remotely like that, and you are just dumb enough to think anyone who points out entitlement system is abused/unfair is saying "GIT RID OF DA MEXICANS!""
Why is the US in serious debt?
A) massive entitlement programs
B) 20 million illegal immigrants getting a free ride
C) all of the above
|
LambsBread
07.22.16 | Notice I didn't say B was the correct answer you imbecile. |
CaliggyJack
07.22.16 | You're both complete fucking idiots.
I love you both, but you both are dumbasses. |
StarlessCore
07.22.16 | to clarify also, im in no way a leftist. im definitely a more libertarian oriented right wing kind of person i just kno that deporting 11 million illegal immigrants is dumb would never happen and would be detrimental to the economy and to our government |
StarlessCore
07.22.16 | "Notice I didn't say B was the correct answer you imbecile."
theres like multiple comments of you stating illegals abusing the system being the problem |
LambsBread
07.22.16 | I'm getting sick of smug pseudo-intellectuals I really don't think I can continue. |
StarlessCore
07.22.16 | then plz leave
just like the 11 million you wanna deport
we'll be headed to prosperity the day theyre all gone! |
Keyblade
07.22.16 | if the implication is the answer is all of the above, then it includes B lol |
LambsBread
07.22.16 | I said illegals abusing the system is A problem.
Your inability to distinguish between me calling something A problem or THE problem shows you either have no integrity or you are remarkably dumb (probably both). |
DominionMM1
07.22.16 | "Did I say the majority of the debt came from illegal immigrants? No."
yeah you kinda did actually
"If you actually think open borders and a massive entitlement program didn't cause the debt?"
|
LambsBread
07.22.16 | I can't believe I honestly have to explain things like this to you guys.
Yeah, it includes B, in other words, ENTITLEMENTS are the big issue, illegal immigrants are just part of the problem that should be addressed. It's more of a fairness issue than anything, not fair for legal citizens to be denied employment and have to contribute tax dollars to illegal aliens. |
Evreaia
07.22.16 | I'm surprised so many illegals/refugees are working in the US. Here in Belgium we had an article that only about 800 of the tens-of-thousands (doesn't specify the exact number of refugees at that time), were actually working, all the rest was collecting welfare.
Over the course of 3 years they paid about one million in taxes. (wow, we spend MILLIONS a year for them, and over 3 years we only got a million back).
This is speaking about Belgium, not about USA like the ongoing conversation.
http://www.demorgen.be/buitenland/slechts-achthonderd-asielzoekers-aan-het-werk-b561fd93/
source is in dutch, but trust me when I say that's a reliable source, no breitbart bullshit kind of source. |
LambsBread
07.22.16 | Do you know what the word AND means dominion?
dear god. |
StarlessCore
07.22.16 | if the implication is the answer is all of the above, then it includes B lol
yeah exactly
cannot believe how insane he sounds
he kept articulating the same point about illegals abusing the system causing the debt, not really citing any other debt reasons (like wars that taxes weren't raised for) and then is upset that we accused him of thinking that thats a mjor reason for the debt
hes just so stupid he'll twist anything anyway to make it seem like hes not in the wrong, like you kept citing that as your main argument for the debt crisis so please just shut up and die thnx |
Futures
07.22.16 | LambsBread
07.22.16
[Report this Post] I'm getting sick of smug pseudo-intellectuals I really don't think I can continue.
|
Drummerboy123
07.22.16 | lol |
CaliggyJack
07.22.16 | Compared to a lot of sites Evreaia, Breitbart is actually surprisingly good. THey get biased as is usual, but they do use lots of sources and facts to back up many of their claims. They're not perfect though. |
porcupinetheater
07.22.16 | LambsBread coming in talking about "regressive leftists" only resorting to strawman arguments and then proceeds to twist virtually every argument made against him to conveniently fit his narrative. |
Evreaia
07.22.16 | Wow that website is quite depressive to look at. |
LambsBread
07.22.16 | @porcupine Never made a single strawman argument, try quoting one time I did that (oh yeah, you can't, but thanks for another baseless accusation - we all know leftists baseless accusations gain strength with numbers, or at least you think they do), but keep popping into the thread every 50 comments to give us some lame bullshit summary about how your side won the argument with no evidence.
|
LambsBread
07.22.16 | @Evreaia yeah, and people wonder why I have an eager tone when I try to educate yall to the most basic facts of politics. |
zakalwe
07.22.16 | Munich shooting.
Immigrant Muslim fundamentalist or lone nut job? |
LambsBread
07.22.16 | "cannot believe how insane he sounds
he kept articulating the same point about illegals abusing the system causing the debt,"
Never said that, you can't read the difference between "a cause" and "the cause" and it's a wonder how you ever passed the fifth grade, honestly. Let me know if you guys can do anything but put words in my mouth. This is getting old. |
LambsBread
07.22.16 | So, what copouts do you guys think Dominion is going to try to make to ignore the fact he was obviously and embarrassingly wrong about entitlements/debt that he was so cocksure about?
I'm guessing "racist", possibly "xenophobe"
So rich, the two dudes saying "Bush caused da debt cuz of da wars n shit" and "we have debt to china because we have debt to china" are actually trying to insult me for having a superficial understanding of the causes of the US debt. 100% honest: i've had an easier time teaching fifth graders politics. |
porcupinetheater
07.22.16 | I mean, your comment about me only popping in to give lameass single post every so often is sorta poisoning the well, innit?
This is a longass unwieldy thread so give me some time to go back and drag the waters. |
Evreaia
07.22.16 | "he kept articulating the same point about illegals abusing the system causing the debt"
to be quite honest, I posted an article that explicite said 'Only 800 of the tens-of-thousands refuges are working, all others so far collected wellfare since day one and haven't contributed anything"
Though that was about Belgium, but I guess this is a global problem.
|
AsleepInTheBack
07.22.16 | yay, lambs is back. and he's still using the same tragic arguments and then sinking to calling everyone liberals and a plethora of insults when they disagree, the highest form of argument.
If you want a rational conversation conduct yourself in a moderately rational way. |
LambsBread
07.22.16 | There's not a really good way to know how much damage illegal immigrants do the the system, because alas, they are undocumented.
But don't let that stop you from making claims about how "75% of immigrants contribute!", nah, illogical arguments haven't ever stopped yall before, just keep spamming/namecalling/saying "I WIN, YOU LOST, IM SMART, YOU ARENT", it's literally all modern US leftists can do. |
LambsBread
07.22.16 | I've pointed out numerous facts that you can't handle (Muslim opinion polls, the cost of entitlements). This isn't a disagreement, it's you guys denying facts, and i'm only insulting people who are being willingly obtuse and insulting "HEE HEE LAMBSBREAD THINKS THE MEXICANS ARE THE SOURCE OF THE WORLDS PROBLEMS" etc.
Please stop acting like you could last 10 seconds in a debate with me AsleepInTheBack, you are a coward who can only say "im smart you're not" then leave the thread. |
brainmelter
07.22.16 | after watching the gop convention last night, unfortunately there is no doubt that trump will take the presidency |
DominionMM1
07.22.16 | "Yes, entitlement programs are the primary cause of the debt"
medicare is an "entitlement program"? |
LambsBread
07.22.16 | Lol that took you a long time and it still was a terrible answer.
Illegal immigrants get medicare and social security you dope, they get fake social security numbers and commit identity theft or they wouldn't be able to work here either. |
LambsBread
07.22.16 | Nice, you knew your comment was so dumb you edited it "DERP ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS CANT GET SOCIAL SECURITY IDIOT ... OH WAIT [DELETE]... LET ME CHANGE THE SUBJECT TO A SEMANTIC DEBATE" |
DominionMM1
07.22.16 | "they get fake social security numbers and commit identity theft or they wouldn't be able to work here either."
huh? |
LambsBread
07.22.16 | Dear God, don't tell me you are going to deny you just wrote "illegal immigrants cant get medicare or social security", this would, remarkably, be a new low for regressive leftists in this thread. |
DominionMM1
07.22.16 | sorry. illegals being able to qualify to ss is very new. had to edit when i remembered obama's bill. |
zaruyache
07.22.16 | "Unfortunately there is no doubt that trump will take the presidency"
Their convention was a mess. It'll still come down to turnout, and loads of Dems are scared to death of Trump so i kinda figure they'll vote. It's not over until it's over.
|
LambsBread
07.22.16 | What do you mean HUH? the concept of illegal immigrants committing identity theft is news to you?
Dude, you embarrassed yourself, you are woefully ignorant (re entitlements, re illegal immigrants, re Islam, re everything in this thread) and I exposed it. Just give up and admit you were wrong and you'll have a chance of actually being an intelligent person in the future. |
LambsBread
07.22.16 | "sorry. illegals being able to qualify to ss is very new. had to edit when i remembered obama's bill."
wow this is rich. From "YOU ARE A FUCKING IDIOT IF YOU BELIEVE THIS" to "well looks like I was wrong, oh well." |
Evreaia
07.22.16 | Lambs please, let's try and keep it civil at least. |
Typhoon24
07.22.16 | lamb prolly doesn't think he's annoying at all |
LambsBread
07.22.16 | Funny how it's always me who needs to keep it civil after 5+ different people insulted me over views I didn't even say and have never held.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZMpuzabEJU |
SgtShock
07.22.16 | You're asking someone to be civil who called all who practice Islam no better than Nazis. An entire religious group: Nazis. |
LambsBread
07.22.16 | No, I am very aware that I annoy the shit out of petulant regressive leftists who think they are great people for doing absolutely nothing, who pat themselves on the back for being "tolerant", an act that literally takes nothing, while they scorn others for being politically active and intolerant of violent hatred IE much of Islam. |
Evreaia
07.22.16 | Lambs I agree with you on most things you said, I'm just saying to keep it civil, no need to retort to the same methods as they are using, that won't make them hear you at all. |
LambsBread
07.22.16 | I'm not even resorting to the same methods, I'm simply quoting them with far, far more integrity than they ever showed towards their paraphrases of my statements. |
DominionMM1
07.22.16 | "What do you mean HUH? the concept of illegal immigrants committing identity theft is news to you?"
nope. just not sure how rampant it actually is.
"wow this is rich. From "YOU ARE A FUCKING IDIOT IF YOU BELIEVE THIS" to "well looks like I was wrong, oh well."
yep i was wrong. let me rephrase: you're a fucking idiot if you think a bill that's been in effect for less than two years has contributed significantly to our national debt. |
Typhoon24
07.22.16 | yeah I have no problem with your dislike for and recognition that islam is the most dangerous popular religion on earth. disagree with ur views on immigration but I don't mind them.
my problem is that you're too pedantic, you sound like a raging neckbeard, and you don't even try to seem likeable (not that you have to, but it helps). |
LambsBread
07.22.16 | LOOK OUT MY WINDOW SEE A WORLD THATS ON FIRE!!!
SOME PEOPLE THINK THAT WE SHOULD JUST LET IT BURN!
WITH ALL THIS IGNORANCE THE FLAMES JUST GET HIGHER!!!
DUNUHNUHNUHNUHNUHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! |
LambsBread
07.22.16 | Why don't you try having a debate with 10 people at once, all of whom have the maturity of 6th graders, and tell me how it goes?
If you haven't noticed it is only very recently that I have given up on trying to be "likeable" to confirmed assholes (read the first 75% of my comments in the thread, they are overly-polite even in response to insulting comments) who will misquote what I say on purpose to try to make me look like a bad person.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZMpuzabEJU |
Typhoon24
07.22.16 | idk if they're being stupid. when you make a sweeping controversial claim about entire groups of people and provide evidence that (at best) only supports it and is not necessarily dispositive, you can expect that you're gonna be met with criticism and cynicism. |
AsleepInTheBack
07.22.16 | "Please stop acting like you could last 10 seconds in a debate with me AsleepInTheBack, you are a coward who can only say "im smart you're not" then leave the thread."
Terribly sorry that I can't spend all day on Sput, unfortunately I have better things to do. And more insults and complimenting yourself despite knowing nothing about me, cheers Lambs |
LambsBread
07.22.16 | and also, don't give me that "im on your side but" bullshit. You aren't on my side, yuo are just trying to avoid criticism from me because you won't be able to debate me.
"yup. economic policies were super unrealistic but Bernie has a heart and soul. I'd trust him to keep us out of war and to invest our resources on things that matter. everything else (national debt, isis, etc...), he might have to take an L."
Yeah a lot of heart that one, the guy that took tens of millions of dollars from the poor to endorse the most corrupt candidate in living memory. The guy who flip flopped on legalizing drugs and getting AA out of prison only when it became popular (THIS ELECTION) what soul! |
LambsBread
07.22.16 | "ou make a sweeping controversial claim about entire groups of people"
quote one time where I did that. Oh yeah, you can't, you're just using pathetic strawman arguments like everyone else. |
StarlessCore
07.22.16 | "yuo are just trying to avoid criticism from me because you won't be able to debate me."
you are an ego maniac
|
Trebor.
07.22.16 | Only way Trump wins is low turnout, which is very likely to happen
2016 has been a garbage year and it's only going to get worse |
LambsBread
07.22.16 | Yes I am an ego maniac because I can out debate a group of people with highschool education and 6th grade maturity. You got me. |
LambsBread
07.22.16 | "Only way Trump wins is low turnout, which is very likely to happen"
Yes, in the most viewed election in history, and the candidate who has gotten more primary votes than anyone ever, low voter turnout is very likely. (what?)
Yes, Trumps key to victory is low voter turnout, that is why he won every state with major voter turnout, and is polling even or ahead with Clinton on polls where voter turnout is irrelevant.
GO take a logic class please Trebor. |
StarlessCore
07.22.16 | no youre an ego maniac cause in every thread you call everybody a 6th grader with no intelligence and then proclaim yourself god of debates that nobody can compete with you
all the while, telling people to stop insulting you to stop using terms like moron idiot 3rd grade reading level while you actually physically sit there and do the same
its absolutely horrifying that you will even try to defend like im not 100% right about this, everybody in this thread sees it, everybody in past threads sees it, you can see it in this thread in fact |
SgtShock
07.22.16 | Lambs, you should probably take a break. You're posting like a crazy person. |
StarlessCore
07.22.16 | oh and the worst is that you compulsively edit your comments as you sit there salivating over getting what you think is the most intelligent response
makes me sick!!! |
DominionMM1
07.22.16 | logic class? pure gold right there. hope treb has some aloe for that serious burn. |
AsleepInTheBack
07.22.16 | "Lambs, you should probably take a break. You're posting like a crazy person." [2]
|
StarlessCore
07.22.16 | maybe he stopped! |
LambsBread
07.22.16 | It honestly amazes me how none of you have an ounce of shame in your body.
I come into this thread and absolutely school you on every topic, immigration, islam, entitlements... to an embarrassing degree. Like, yall were actually defending violent homophobes, thought illegal immigrants couldn't get SS, thought Trump benefits from low voter turnout and low voter turnout is likely etc., and you still have the nerve to pop in here and say "LAMBS IS DUMB" after you've blatantly lost the debate on every single topic, and have resorted to strawmanning me as your only hope of keeping some superficial appearance of intelligence.
I'm honestly at a loss for words. This website is filled with some of the most bitter, angry, clueless and defensive people you will ever meet. All any of you can do is talk shit, which is ironically what you say about me, yet i've posted numerous facts that you simply can't handle.
Here we go again:
http://www.usdebtclock.org/
http://www.pewforum.org/files/2013/04/gsi2-chp3-1.png
http://www.pewforum.org/files/2013/04/gsi2-overview-3.png
http://www.pewforum.org/files/2013/04/gsi2-chp3-6.png
https://whyevolutionistrue.files.wordpress.com/2013/05/apostasy.png?w=328&h=638
When one of you can respond to a single one of these facts^ or reconcile it with the arguments you make, let me know.
Until then, I'm sick of sitting around this thread trying to educate assholes who call you a racist for pointing out facts that they are painfully unaware of. You guys symbolize everything that is wrong with the young generation, all ego, all self-projecting insults, no integrity, no honor, no care for how any of your beliefs will fuck up the world. You are terrible people, plain and simple. You will lie about honest and decent people like me to make yourselves feel better about your own foolishness. You are trying to do the same to Trump, it's not working, people are onto your pathetic pedantic games. Regressive lefists are going the way of the Dodo, thank God.
You're bad taste in music is appalling enough, please don't use your toxic mind to try to get involved in politics. - Love Lambs |
LambsBread
07.22.16 | "Lambs, you should probably take a break. You're posting like a crazy person."
In reality, you asked for evidence, I gave it to you, now you are throwing a hissy fit. |
LambsBread
07.22.16 | "no youre an ego maniac cause in every thread you call everybody a 6th grader "
No, I do that strictly in threads where everyone has the maturity of a sixth grader (mostly threads where you are a primary poster). My arguments rest on the facts i've posted many many times. YOu can't handle the truth. PLain and simple.
Keep looking for strength in numbers. We've been over this, all you regressive leftists can do is 1) namecall 2) accuse me of namecalling when i've mentioned numerous facts and evidence you simply can't deal with 3) strawman arguments.
keep em comin! |
StarlessCore
07.22.16 | "I come into this thread and absolutely school you on every topic, immigration, islam, entitlements... to an embarrassing degree."
dumbest person on the planet, absolutely insane that your mind works this way
you never proven how illegal immigration is a major cause of the debt
you've never been able to prove that the majority of muslims are violent extremists or support/condone/partake in violent extremism
you can prove nothing
you know a handful of facts, you parade your interpretation as law, everybody is dumb an idiot a 6th grader etc but then you sit here and tell everyone else how awful they are for name calling as you name call like i cant believe the stupidity or the irony its making my brain hurt
you are worse than contracting zika whilst being dragged through lava by a 6'8 body builder with lava proof shoes |
Evreaia
07.22.16 | "you never proven how illegal immigration is a major cause of the debt"
Well I did, or at least showed why its a factor in the debt. |
StarlessCore
07.22.16 | "YOu can't handle the truth. PLain and simple."
why im taking time away from my work to argue with you I cant explain but your ignorance is fascinating
what truth can i not handle
illegal immigration is not a major contributor to the debt
it's a contributor, its not a major one
the majority of muslims/islam practicing people do not engage in terrorist extremism, and the majority do not condone it
there is no truth that Im missing, youre just putting on a show now |
SgtShock
07.22.16 | I liked the parting shot Lambs took at everyone's music taste. |
LambsBread
07.22.16 | "Keep looking for strength in numbers. We've been over this, all you regressive leftists can do is 1) namecall 2) accuse me of namecalling when i've mentioned numerous facts and evidence you simply can't deal with 3) strawman arguments."
"dumbest person on the planet, absolutely insane that your mind works this way"
#1
"you never proven how illegal immigration is a major cause of the debt"
#3
"you've never been able to prove that the majority of muslims are violent extremists or support/condone/partake in violent extremism"
#3
"ou know a handful of facts, you parade your interpretation as law, everybody is dumb an idiot a 6th grader etc but then you sit here and tell everyone else how awful they are for name calling as you name call like i cant believe the stupidity or the irony its making my brain hurt"
#2
"you are worse than contracting zika whilst being dragged through lava by a 6'8 body builder with lava proof shoes"
#1
lmfao, predicted everything you would say effortlessly.
|
StarlessCore
07.22.16 | lets try again
illegal immigration is not a major contributor to the 20 trillion dollar debt
the debt would be worse if we deported them all, we'd lose a massive chunk of tax revenue, and the illegals in low paying wage jobs would leave, spiking up the prices of products
its not a non factor
but its not one of the top, prime causes |
LambsBread
07.22.16 | You aren't missing the truth, you are just apparently incapable of reading what I actually said and/or are a dishonest person who uses strawman arguments consistently.
"illegal immigration is not a major contributor to the debt"
Didn't say that.
"it's a contributor, its not a major one"
now you are agreeing with me while scorning me...
"the MAJORITY of muslims/islam practicing people do not engage in terrorist extremism, and the majority do not condone it"
cool, I didn't say that either. Nice strawman for the 100th time. You are completely incapable of understanding nuance in arguments. |
LambsBread
07.22.16 | "the debt would be worse if we deported them all, we'd lose a massive chunk of tax revenue, and the illegals in low paying wage jobs would leave, spiking up the prices of products"
None of this follows. We would increase lower the deficit by getting illegal immigrants off of the government's budget. Their jobs would be replaced by legal citizens. Lowering unemployment doesn't decrease revenues.
Would some companies be forced to charge more? Yeah. Is that a bad thing? No. These slimeball companies that make fortunes off of illegal wages should go out of business or adapt.
Anyway, the idea that American illegal immigrants produce indispensable cheap products is bullshit. They are easily replaced by machines, businesses have just chosen to not invest because illegal labor has no overhead.
Your only decent argument is "b-b-b-b-but think of the poor law-breaking illegal-immigrants". Sure, I am not really heavily for deportation, I just think the idea that you are racist if you are is the most shameful shit i've ever heard. |
StarlessCore
07.22.16 | not a strawman basing it on past arguments you've made
for the 50th time, you made multiple arguments for the debt and included illegals milking the welfare system in each one, and only refrained from mentioning that when I pointed it out
yes lambs, we get it, you didnt physically say word for word "illegal immigrants milking the system is the major cause of the debt" but you legit talked about the debt in multiple different comments and mentioned illegals milking welfare multiple times
please excuse us if we took that to mean you believe that illegals milking welfare is a major cause of the debt
also you can stop pointing out that i make insults
i never said i didnt
and i will continue to expose the truth that your ignorance, ego and stupidity takes form in every thread you grace with your 2 inch baby nub
the difference is
i dont complain that people name-call, i complain that you name-call while condemning others for it |
LambsBread
07.22.16 | "not a strawman basing it on past arguments you've made"
No, you fucking aren't. Quote me or stfu. You have misquoted me numerous times. |
StarlessCore
07.22.16 |
"None of this follows. We would increase tax revenue by getting illegal immigrants off of the government's budget. Their jobs would be replaced by legal citizens. Lowering unemployment doesn't decrease revenues. "
ok let me try ONE MORE TIME
illegal immigrants
contribute more in tax money
than they receive in entitlement
it is not a debate
it is fact
the jobs would not be all easily replaced by legal citizens, you are peddling fiction with no backing
many of the jobs are cash, many companies would be forced to restructure to make room for such a massive change
there are plenty of able bodied americans who are citizens who leech welfare and choose to take the welfare if they qualify instead of working minimum wage, illegal immigrants are not taking all these jobs away from americans there are americans on welfare who are NOT actively seeking employment so if the job picking watermelons or whatever was available THEY AREN"T LOOKING FOR SEASONAL OR MINIMUM WAGE WORK TO COMPETE WITH FREE SUBSIDIES THEY RECEIVE
I agree they can be easily replaced by machines, and if you deport all immigrants asap, it still has a short term bad effect on the economy, because you immediately lose revenue, and there is no guarantee that every job will be replaced by an able bodied citizen
also, deporting 11 million illegals would cost about 100-200 billion dollars, take an estimated 20-30 years to actually do effectively (according to estimates made by actual organizations that measure these things, I don't need to cite it, you can do the research as I have) and yes you'd remove the criminals and non-contributors but you would remove the contributors and workers who make up about 70-75% of the illegal population
dont know why this is hard for you to understand, illegals put more tax money in than the illegals who feed off the system, the government itself is the problem, we'd simply lose revenues if you deport 11 million it cant be argued |
DominionMM1
07.22.16 | "kill gay people"
your words exactly, yet the "facts" you've presented mentioned nothing about killing gays. in fact that proves nothing more than religion in general disapproves of homosexuality. i mean if you polled everyone in mississippi, i'd be willing to bet you'd get a large amount of people who think homosexuality is immoral.
http://www.pewforum.org/files/2013/04/gsi2-chp3-6.png |
LambsBread
07.22.16 | "for the 50th time, you made multiple arguments for the debt and included illegals milking the welfare system in each one, and only refrained from mentioning that when I pointed it out"
Actually what I did was specifically said illegal immigrants are A problem, but entitlements themselves are the main issue. All I said was "the idea that open borders has no consequences is asinine". You're just putting words in my mouth, you can't even quote me, it's pathetic. Stop arguing with what you think I said 200 comments ago and address my actual arguments that im making NOW.
Yes, illegal immigrants milk welfare. Saying this doesn't indicate you think the world would be perfect if it stopped. Learn basic reading comprehension.
"please excuse us if we took that to mean you believe that illegals milking welfare is a major cause of the debt" I would excuse you if you weren't doing the same mistake after I explained it to you multiple times and being an utter dick about it.
I'm not complaining that people namecall, i'm pointing out it's literally all you can do. (every one of your comments falls into 1 of 3 copout tactics I just mentioned).
"and i will continue to expose the truth that your ignorance, ego and stupidity takes form in every thread you grace with your 2 inch baby nub" More self projecting insults, nice,but too much information bro. |
LambsBread
07.22.16 | @Dominion
https://img.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeed-static/static/2014-07/8/9/enhanced/webdr08/enhanced-3961-1404825611-15.jpg
Derp |
StarlessCore
07.22.16 | "Yes, illegal immigrants milk welfare. Saying this doesn't indicate you think the world would be perfect if it stopped. Learn basic reading comprehension."
25% of illegals milk welfare the majority dont k |
SgtShock
07.22.16 | "No, you fucking aren't. Quote me or stfu. You have misquoted me numerous times."
Lambs misquoted me four different times. Just sayin'. |
DominionMM1
07.22.16 | https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/30/gay-rights-world-best-worst-countries
derp |
LambsBread
07.22.16 | "ok let me try ONE MORE TIME
illegal immigrants
contribute more in tax money
than they receive in entitlement
it is not a debate
it is fact"
You don't know what a fact is. It is so cringeworthy that you think you are educating me after you repeat the most banal and superficial liberal talking points.
What are you basing this off of ? Please explain how you are measuring the incomes/expenses of undocumented people?
"the jobs would not be all easily replaced by legal citizens, you are peddling fiction with no backing" God you are stupid. Do you know what unemployment is? It means theres people looking for jobs who can't get them, presumably because other people occupy those jobs. Again, basic logic.
"many of the jobs are cash, many companies would be forced to restructure to make room for such a massive change" already explained how that isn't a big deal that scumbag companies might go out of business, if you think it is you are even more ridiculous than I thought "WE GOTTA SAVE THE BUSINESSES OPERATING ON ILLEGAL WAGES"....
"there are plenty of able bodied americans who are citizens who leech welfare and choose to take the welfare if they qualify instead of working minimum wage," There is a work requirement on welfare since the Clinton years. again, basic history. You don't know the most basic aspects of politics.
"I agree they can be easily replaced by machines, and if you deport all immigrants asap, it still has a short term bad effect on the economy, because you immediately lose revenue, and there is no guarantee that every job will be replaced by an able bodied citizen
also, deporting 11 million illegals would cost about 100-200 billion dollars, take an estimated 20-30 years to actually do effectively (according to estimates made by actual organizations that measure these things, I don't need to cite it, you can do the research as I have) and yes you'd remove the criminals and non-contributors but you would remove the contributors and workers who make up about 70-75% of the illegal population"
INteresting how you backtracked from "deportation is racist and evil YOU FUCKING IDIOT BLAH BLAH BLAH DUMBASS" to "deportation could have short term consequences and practical obstacles"
"Don't know why this is hard for you to understand"
because I have the basic intelligence to realize you can't measure the incomes/expenses of undocumented people while you are a gullible fool who repeats leftist talking points like they are gospel. |
LambsBread
07.22.16 | @Dominion Sorry dominion I forgot you are so appalingly ignorant you need to have a world map analyzed for you. The countries where gay people will be killed or imprisoned are virtually all Muslim countries.
Thanks for the random article that proves nothing relevant though... I really am amazed you could possibly be this bad at debating and still be such a cocky person. |
ShadowRemains
07.22.16 | every one of your posts here is basically a long winded way of saying "look at my clean shiny ass and the rest of yours are swampy" |
LambsBread
07.22.16 | "25% of illegals milk welfare the majority dont k"
uh so why are you advocating that 5 million law breaking aliens milk the system? Do you have a reason or are you just going to call me dumb? |
DominionMM1
07.22.16 | "The countries where gay people will be killed or imprisoned are virtually all Muslim countries."
nope. if you read the article i posted, you'll notice several countries where islam isn't the primary religion (cameroon for example) where homosexuality is punished. so no persecuting homosexuals isn't confined to muslim countries. nice try though. |
LambsBread
07.22.16 | oh look, another user who pops in to let us know his side is right before he becomes cowardly and leaves the thread.
youll make it far in life with that kind of debate skill |
StarlessCore
07.22.16 | "because I have the basic intelligence to realize you can't measure the incomes/expenses of undocumented people while you are a gullible fool who repeats leftist talking points like they are gospel."
1. when did i say you said deportation was racist and evil
2. measuring the incomes/expenses of illegals isnt the point, it's what they cost the GOVERNMENT vs. what illegals contribute TO THE GOVERNMENT and they contribute more than they reap in benefits
3. there haven't been any leftist talking points from me, dk what youre talking about
4. im not a leftist, im probably more conservative on some issues than 90% of the fiscal moderate/fiscal liberal bible humpers we call republicans
as someone who identifies as a generally right-wing person, the only thing i hate more than a lib is an idiot
and you are certainly an idiot, sput agrees |
adr
07.22.16 | worst list of all time prob |
StarlessCore
07.22.16 | "uh so why are you advocating that 5 million law breaking aliens milk the system? Do you have a reason or are you just going to call me dumb?"
no idea what youre talking about, I just acknowledged it as true. it is true that a percentage of illegals do not pay any tax but receive benefit |
Parallels
07.22.16 | >so no, persecuting homosexuals isn't confined to muslim countries.
it's overwhelmingly middle eastern/north africa though, which are entirely muslim countries
and those countries have the highest penalties for homosexuality, usually death/beheading or encouragement by family to kill their siblings if they are lgbt to restore honor. |
ShadowRemains
07.22.16 | dude, everyone is against you here and has the. same. fucking. criticisms. that. i. do. you might want to for once stop blaming everyone else and pull up some reflective glass object |
LambsBread
07.22.16 | Yes, because some christian countries kill homosexuals, let's ignore that most of the countries that kill homosexuals are Islamic.
Interesting how you went from "Islam doesn't kill gay people" to "SO DOES CHRISTIANITY" (i'm an atheist lol, I don't care, use your bad arguments on someone else). |
ShadowRemains
07.22.16 | while i do not agree with bakker's views and think some of them are rather dark, at least he has some actual tact when carrying out a conversation |
LambsBread
07.22.16 | No, not everyone, just you and a handful of regressive leftists looking for strength in numbers as usual because all you can do is 1) namecall 2) accuse me of namecalling after you ignore the facts I brought up 3) strawman arguments |
StarlessCore
07.22.16 | "every one of your posts here is basically a long winded way of saying "look at my clean shiny ass and the rest of yours are swampy"
oh god this [2424424424] |
LambsBread
07.22.16 | You have no tact at all, you are someone who flings shit and insults people then runs out of the thread. |
DominionMM1
07.22.16 | "it's overwhelmingly middle eastern/north africa though, which are entirely muslim countries"
homosexuality is illegal in almost 40 countries in africa so no it's not. there are also anti-sodomy laws (primarily aimed at homosexuals) in several countries in the caribbean.
|
ShadowRemains
07.22.16 | so you say i run yesterday and now i'm back today and you still say i run, there's some logical fault with that i sense |
DominionMM1
07.22.16 | "Interesting how you went from "Islam doesn't kill gay people" to "SO DOES CHRISTIANITY" (i'm an atheist lol, I don't care, use your bad arguments on someone else)."
actually, i was merely pointing out that the pew poll that you posted didn't support your earlier statement about islam killing gays. |
ShadowRemains
07.22.16 | oh and you're the one who claimed to be "ignoring" me so who's the coward when facing the music now? |
LambsBread
07.22.16 | I've mentioned an abundance evidence/facts none of you can deal with.
All you can do is join together like a pack of abused puppies and say "nooooo! lambs is wrong!" and do one of the three things I mentioned. I've been cringing for the last 3 hours in embarrassment for you guys. |
Futures
07.22.16 | worst list of all time prob
Futures
07.13.16
[ Edit ] will be the worst thread of all time |
Parallels
07.22.16 | >homosexuality is illegal in almost 40 countries in africa so no it's not
You're welcome to look up the penalties for those areas south of North Africa, most of the time it's a law that isn't enforced, is only enforced by propaganda, or at the worst is jail time. With muslim dominated areas in North Africa and the Middle East, it is entirely the death penalty and what I mentioned above. |
LambsBread
07.22.16 | "actually, i was merely pointing out that the pew poll that you posted didn't support your earlier statement about islam killing gays."
oh, so you asked for evidence and I gave it to you, then you tried to say the evidence wasn't valid, I explained how it obviously was, and now you are acting like you never disagreed in the first place. Good to know you agree with me I guess. |
StarlessCore
07.22.16 | "abundance evidence/facts none of you can deal with"
you havent
if you wanna keep going in circles so I can explain how you havent I guess i have no choice but to spend the last hour at my job debating you and jamming the new coldworld
i luv my job |
LambsBread
07.22.16 | ">homosexuality is illegal in almost 40 countries in africa so no it's not
You're welcome to look up the penalties for those areas, most of the time it's a law that isn't enforced or is jail time. With muslim dominated areas in North Africa and the Middle East, it is entirely the death penalty and what I mentioned above."
already posted a source, you have no source, just unfounded claims, no one believes you (cept gullible/asinine regressive leftists). but yes i'm sure my LGBT rights.com chart is a heavily biased right-wing organization. |
LambsBread
07.22.16 | "you havent"
I have, you are dense.
http://www.usdebtclock.org/
http://www.pewforum.org/files/2013/04/gsi2-chp3-1.png
http://www.pewforum.org/files/2013/04/gsi2-overview-3.png
http://www.pewforum.org/files/2013/04/gsi2-chp3-6.png
https://whyevolutionistrue.files.wordpress.com/2013/05/apostasy.png?w=328&h=638 |
LambsBread
07.22.16 | in b4 CHRISTIANITY IS BAD TOO THO! |
Parallels
07.22.16 | >already posted a source, you have no source, no one believes you
http://www.advocate.com/world/2016/5/27/12-countries-will-kill-you-being-lgbt
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/06/13/here-are-the-10-countries-where-homosexuality-may-be-punished-by-death-2/
http://www.washingtonblade.com/2016/03/28/report-saudi-authorities-seek-death-penalty-for-coming-out/
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/where-is-it-illegal-to-be-homosexual-and-which-is-the-most-deadly-country-to-be-gay-10355338.html
https://lgbt-rights-hrw.silk.co
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/2016/06/lgbt-laws-gay-rights-world-map/
It's one thing where you can be gay in society and still have a life - america was that way not more than 20 years ago, and entirely different if anyone will kill you if anyone finds out that you are actually gay. The penalty and laws against homosexuals is vastly more cruel in muslim dominated areas. And when I say muslim dominated, they are almost always countries where islam is required by the government, and apostasy is illegal |
Parallels
07.22.16 | >you have no source, all of your links are for gullible people from left wing and right wing sources
lol what |
StarlessCore
07.22.16 | explain why you posting the debt clock proves any particular viewpoint correct
im not really concerned with islam debate, religion is atrocious all religion has damaged society and commanded importance away from real life throughout history, i guarantee nobody in this thread agrees with sharia law and executing gays and stuff like that, many muslims do, and its a shame
many republican christians think homosexuality is immoral, abortions should be outlawed, governor Mike Pence in 2000 wanted to divert funding from AIDS/HIV research to put it into gay therapy/conversion treatment
religion sucks, islam word for word sucks, religion word for word from texts are generally anti-freedom/socially restrictive, the point of the teachings in religion are not always meant to be literal, thus you have many muslims who are muslim but dont believe in stoning people to death
im mainly concerned with how your main argument three times in a row for the debt crisis was illegal immigrants milking entitlements |
StarlessCore
07.22.16 | "in b4 CHRISTIANITY IS BAD TOO THO!"
the big picture is all religions are bad |
bach
07.22.16 | i hope you all die |
DominionMM1
07.22.16 | "You're welcome to look up the penalties for those areas south of North Africa, most of the time it's a law that isn't enforced, is only enforced by propaganda, or at the worst is jail time."
life sentence in some cases, or being murdered. but yeah it's not poverty and lack of education at the root of all these problems; it's islam. |
porcupinetheater
07.22.16 | Some choice LambsBrand Straw Men
"hey bro, we've decreased our white population from 95% to 94.99 percent% up here in the artic wasteland known as Canada and have had NO problems. Maybe you sheltered Americans could learn a thing or two and flood your country with 20 million more illegal immigrants and people who overwhelmingly support persecuting gay people, atheists and women."
Framed as a response to Chuck's earlier evidence, both national and anecdotal, that actually letting in a substantial amount of refugees, more than almost any other nation on Earth, has had no negative consequences whatsoever, Lambs reply tries to shout it down with no anecdotal or experiential evidence whatsoever and instead relies purely on his own hypothetical speculation on what MIGHT happen in accordance with his worldview.
"There are multiple times, probably 15x, more Islam extremist terrorist attacks today, you would have to be completely oblivious to not know this"
In response to an earlier argument of mine that there ARE more terrorist attacks that are labeled as such committed by Muslims because terror attacks by other groups (particularly white people) are almost never labelled as such. If you replace "terror attack" with "violent mass murder" the numbers do a bit of flipping around.
"Islam is literally defended by people who haven't read a single poll, study or book on Islam, let alone even skimmed the Quran, who pat themselves on the back for their "Coexist" bumperstickers."
Conveniently ignoring the validity of the statements made by huge numbers of people with experience with Islam, whether through firsthand personal, familial, or friends' beliefs, as well as people who have studied the texts in some other capacity to conveniently paint the other side with a broad brush that's easier to dismiss when they're just a buncha naïve bleedin' heart lib'rals.
"Sorry I forgot that regressive leftists are so pitifully ignorant they think Afghanistan is eminems new album."
No commentary necessary.
I've gone about halfway through the page and I'm burnt out. There may be more, there may not be, can't be arsed to keep trawling through right now. |
LambsBread
07.22.16 | "The penalty and laws against homosexuals is vastly more cruel in muslim dominated areas."
Dear god theres a sane person in here! |
Parallels
07.22.16 | "Sorry I forgot that regressive leftists are so pitifully ignorant they think Afghanistan is eminems new album."
fucking lol |
DominionMM1
07.22.16 | yeah life in prison in a 3rd world country is like a day at the beach |
Parallels
07.22.16 | >life sentence in some cases, or being murdered. but yeah it's not poverty and lack of education at the root of all these problems; it's islam.
>yeah life in prison in a 3rd world country is like a day at the beach
there's poverty and lack of education in other areas of the world too you know :)
thats literally your logic in this thread, which, while it isn't wrong, it's misleading from the problems to say that everyone needs attention |
StarlessCore
07.22.16 | "has had no negative consequences whatsoever, Lambs reply tries to shout it down with no anecdotal or experiential evidence whatsoever and instead relies purely on his own hypothetical speculation on what MIGHT happen in accordance with his worldview."
im telling you theres a part of the brain that lambs doesnt have and this is true of like 90% of his encounters in threads |
LambsBread
07.22.16 | Man kills gay person.
Detectives find quran on his desk opened to "kill the gays" verse.
Dominion decides he must have killed the gay person because he was poor. Because yknow when you are hungry or have to work too hard, the natural response is to kill a sexual minority. |
Evreaia
07.22.16 | guys we're almost at 1500 comments
keep on going, we're going good. |
porcupinetheater
07.22.16 | Your ability to simplify a complex and multi-faceted issue down to a single talking point that eliminates almost all the other components of a situation is truly heroic.
Like, extremism outwardly justified through religion and anger brought about by poverty aren't mutually exclusive things, and generally go hand in hand. See also: living in constant fear, restricted access to education, totalitarian regimes, etc. |
LambsBread
07.22.16 | "Framed as a response to Chuck's earlier evidence, both national and anecdotal, that actually letting in a substantial amount of refugees, more than almost any other nation on Earth"
lmfao. Canada has 3% Muslim population. Less total Muslims than the US. You are blatantly ignoring the series of terror attacks committed by Muslim immigrants and travelers...
Theres a huge difference between terror attacks and violent mass murder. Terror attacks have a political aspect to them.
I was obviously using hyperbole to bring attention to the fact that none of you could reconcile your views with the polls I keep posting.
None of those were strawman arguments, you are just bad at debating. |
Evreaia
07.22.16 | "Canada has 3% Muslim population"
Damn, wanna hear how much europe has? |
ShadowRemains
07.22.16 | http://img.wonkette.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/trumpivanka.gif
who the hell does this to their daughter? |
LambsBread
07.22.16 | Again, poverty and Islamic terrorism are inversely related.
If by "access to education" you mean "access to literally anything but Islamic indoctrination" then yeah, but there's plenty of poor people throughout the world who aren't Islamic who don't kill gay people.
I'm not simplifying anything, you are ignorant of the facts. The 9/11 attackers and masterminds were not starving peasants, they were engineers and pilots, they could have had a life of relative luxury if they wanted it. Your argument is absurd, i'm not over-simplifying anything, you just make up bullshit causes because you are desperate to blame anything but Islam.
|
Evreaia
07.22.16 | Wow I'd vote for that ass |
porcupinetheater
07.22.16 | Are you going to try and tell me you addressed Chuck's argument and didn't twist the narratives with invented hyperbolic statistics to make it easier for you? |
Parallels
07.22.16 | lol is she pregnant? maybe it's a social custom, like kissing on the cheek? :^) |
LambsBread
07.22.16 | Yeah, who touches their daughters on the hip! SAVAGE!
(ignores footage of Islamic man cutting off his daughter's clitoris) |
DominionMM1
07.22.16 | Man kills gay person.
Detectives find quran on his desk opened to "kill the gays" verse.
Dominion decides he must have killed the gay person because he was poor. Because yknow when you are hungry or have to work too hard, the natural response is to kill a sexual minority.
spoken like a true 'murcan because being hungry and having to work hard is the definition of poor |
LambsBread
07.22.16 | Guys i'm poor, I think i'm going to go cut off my daughter's clit. - said no atheist ever |
LambsBread
07.22.16 | @Dominion way to ignore the point that just shit all over your asinine argument with a played out Murica meme. |
ShadowRemains
07.22.16 | "(ignores footage of Islamic man cutting off his daughter's clitoris)"
where did i ever mention islam you fucking ignoramus?
of course whoever does that to their daughter should be imprisoned for life |
StarlessCore
07.22.16 | trump is a moron
like guys
an actual blithering, disrespectful, spoon fed, 30 times bankrupted, knowledge-less, 40 year serial democratic donor moron ran as a republican and could actually have some type of shot at being the president of the united states
come on |
LambsBread
07.22.16 | ^omg racist! |
LambsBread
07.22.16 | dude Trump makes more money in an hour than your family tree will in it's existence. The "HES DUMB" argument isn't working for you. Bankruptcies are only viewed as an inherently bad thing to the economically illiterate.
I agree he is rather uninformed, but honestly he looks like a genius compared to people like you who can't even make a coherent argument to save their life. |
ShadowRemains
07.22.16 | oh look some lunatic committed an unspeakable act that obviously no one within right mind would condone
let's just ignore a candidate for POTUS awkwardly grasping his daughter's thigh like a pervert |
Evreaia
07.22.16 | "Bankruptcies are only viewed as an inherently bad thing to the economically illiterate"
Calm down there, that's only true to a certain degree mate. |
DominionMM1
07.22.16 | "@Dominion way to ignore the point that just shit all over your asinine argument with a played out Murica meme."
but it didn't. it was pure laziness in the form of, as another user pointed, oversimplification. |
LambsBread
07.22.16 | Not sure in what world you live in where it's strange for a man to touch his own daughters hip.
If anyone is despicable its you for the insinuations you are making about what this means. You have no arguments against trump so you bring in his relationship with his daughter, truly pathetic. |
LambsBread
07.22.16 | I'm not oversimplifying things i'm using hyperbole to make you realize how dumb you sound for saying Islam isn't the main factor in people killing gay people for no fucking reason when it literally says to do so in the Quran.
Seriously, please stop talking to me, I don't value your opinion, you have no integrity in summarizing or interpreting my argument. |
ShadowRemains
07.22.16 | ok then, how about him rubbing his ego's cock after the shooting at the orlando nightclub? |
LambsBread
07.22.16 | "Calm down there, that's only true to a certain degree mate." you mean to the precise degree that it applies to trump.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZMpuzabEJU |
Evreaia
07.22.16 | Lambs I've practically supported most shit you've said, but some things aren't as black and white and need a little more finesse in wording.
And no, this wasn't aimed at Trump, if you read all my comments so far you would have known I'm neither for or against him, but I do consider him the elsser of two evils. |
StarlessCore
07.22.16 | "dude Trump makes more money in an hour than your family tree will in it's existence. The "HES DUMB" argument isn't working for you."
he inherited a 200 million dollar fortune, his father started, set up, and drove the business in the direction for success (its real estate if you do well you can just sit on it and do heroin all day for 20 years and if your panel of advisors are good you'll end up making more money)
YOUR argument is stupid, wealth and intelligence arent related
trump was handed a business by his father, a business already stacked with teams of the best financial minds they could hire
his dad legit lent him a bunch of money to just buy manhattan property
many parts of his business have failed over the years, some horrifically, oh and hes a serial suer, guy has a horrid ego, did not contribute one thoughtful argument to any of the debates, was a hardcore leftist for 40 years until like two days ago when he decided to run on a nationalist/populist/faux-right wing platform, has been the most insulting, rude, ignorant candidate for any position of office probably in our history
he also employs thousands of illegals
he's also not paid employees before
he's also been in tremendous legal trouble throughout his life with business ventures
you think because his giant company that his dad gave him which is ran by a board of probably harvard grads makes money means hes not dumb is pathetic youre a weasel i hope you contract zika tbh youre awful awful awful just so plainly ignorant, repulsive, ego maniacal
maybe thats y ur defending trump
he reminds you of urself |
LambsBread
07.22.16 | @Shadow You mean, trying to wake up a clueless/blinded nation to the threat of Islam? yeah what an egomaniac for actually pointing out Islam is violent and directly caused 50 people to die. I mean the nation is just so rational and informed, here's the response after Orlando:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cl5v5Q1XIAAs39S.jpg:large |
StarlessCore
07.22.16 | GUIZ TRUMP STARTED WITH 200 MILLION AND HIS COMPANY GREW TO 1 BILLION HE DID IT ALL HIMSEWLFFLKFMWFKMKFLM |
ShadowRemains
07.22.16 | he literally did that for nothing except to further his own cause and pat himself on the back, but sure continue to deflect |
LambsBread
07.22.16 | "Lambs I've practically supported most shit you've said, but some things aren't as black and white and need a little more finesse in wording. "
lol... I need more finesse huh? you try arguing with 10+ hysterical regressive lefists at once who put words in your mouth every other comment and call you racist in between. These people are incapable of understanding nuance.
Starless is the worst user in this thread and thats saying something. YOu literally just made up a bunch of shit about Trump with no evidence, but thats cool whatever helps you sleep at night. (i know liberals hate the idea of someone outworking them to get where they are in life)
"he inherited a 200 million dollar fortune, his father started, set up, and drove the business in the direction for success"
-source: anonymous person from NY times article.
oh no a bunch of unconfirmed slander, checkmate!
|
LambsBread
07.22.16 | "he literally did that for nothing except to further his own cause and pat himself on the back, but sure continue to deflect" it's not deflecting, you are insanely obtuse. Look at the picture I just posted, if you can't imagine why bringing up Islam after the attack is warranted, given this response by the left, you are clueless.
He's bringing attention to a very problematic idealogy, you're jealous and think it's all about ego, that's fine, think what you want, he's going to win because there's still more positive people than bitter haters like you in the US. |
ShadowRemains
07.22.16 | "(i know liberals hate the idea of someone outworking them to get where they are in life)"
and what do you do for a living again? own a restaurant? something to do with your three advanced degrees? NBA fantasy? which is it? |
Typhoon24
07.22.16 | "many parts of his business have failed over the years, some horrifically, oh and hes a serial suer, guy has a horrid ego, did not contribute one thoughtful argument to any of the debates, was a hardcore leftist for 40 years until like two days ago when he decided to run on a nationalist/populist/faux-right wing platform, has been the most insulting, rude, ignorant candidate for any position of office probably in our history"
starless went in with that trump description |
porcupinetheater
07.22.16 | Shh, Starless, sometimes people need some time and an ounce of maturity to accept that Ayn Rand was full of shit |
ShadowRemains
07.22.16 | yes, i'm jealous of trump, that's totally it
you're an expert in psychology now too, yes? |
LambsBread
07.22.16 | My career is great, i'd rather not go into it because it's irrelevant and quite frankly most of you sound like potential rapists.
yeah starless WENT IN BRO! let's use millennial slang to give the appearance of truth to something some dorky kid just pulled out of his ass! WORD MAN! CORPORATIONS SUCK! |
LambsBread
07.22.16 | You're either jealous or you are completely oblivious to the phenomenon of regressive leftism, I don't care. |
ShadowRemains
07.22.16 | "My career is great, i'd rather not go into it because it's irrelevant and quite frankly most of you sound like potential rapists."
oh bullshit
you've repeatedly told lies about it and now you say people who actually want some truth are potential rapists, go drive off a bridge |
LambsBread
07.22.16 | PLAYED OUT AYN RAND MEME
GOT EM! |
Typhoon24
07.22.16 | "yeah starless WENT IN BRO! let's use millennial slang to give the appearance of truth to something some dorky kid just pulled out of his ass! WORD MAN! CORPORATIONS SUCK!"
don't make me laugh at work lol |
LambsBread
07.22.16 | I have a great career, don't care if you believe me or not, it's flattering that you don't tbh and it's kind of telling that you guys think its so hard to succeed in the richest nation in the history of the known universe. |
Speed512
07.22.16 | "You mean, trying to wake up a clueless/blinded nation to the threat of Islam? yeah what an egomaniac..."
You've literally failed at making any successful argument this entire time and all the while painted yourself to be a xenophobic racist cock guzzler. |
Futures
07.22.16 | hillary check out stormfront you would fit in there |
Futures
07.22.16 | I have a great career, don't care if you believe me or not, it's flattering that you don't tbh and it's kind of telling that you guys think its so hard to succeed in the richest nation in the history of the known universe.
you work at mcdonalds and you admitted it lol |
ShadowRemains
07.22.16 | where did i say it was hard to succeed?
my career hasn't started just yet since i'm in university but i've had my current job for seven years and it certainly is not in retail or at a restaurant
so shove that up your ass |
LambsBread
07.22.16 | I hope you succeed Shadow, despite what you may think i'm not rooting against you irl, just when you talk shit on the internet.
I've never worked at mcdonalds. I might have said I 'make money from Mcdonalds' just to toy with you (I had mcdonalds stock). |
LambsBread
07.22.16 | Who doesn't guzzle a cock now and then? cmon |
LambsBread
07.22.16 | Funny how racists (presumably stormfront, although i'm not sure they are even racist) call me a n***er lover. Sputnik calls me a racist. I think reality is just more complex than either of these sites can handle. |
StarlessCore
07.22.16 | "yeah starless WENT IN BRO! let's use millennial slang to give the appearance of truth to something some dorky kid just pulled out of his ass! WORD MAN! CORPORATIONS SUCK!"
first of all i luv corporations
this is all available knowledge tho if you'd simply research Donald Trump's history, im not gonna sit here and cite a source for every single letter I type
he inherited crazy money from his father (public knowledge) and an already booming, dominating, well invested business from his father, stacked with a class-A staff and was given more cash to buy property in manhattan when he was just starting out
"(i know liberals hate the idea of someone outworking them to get where they are in life)"
20th time, I hate liberals, this isnt a left vs right debate
its a sputnik vs your ego debate |
LambsBread
07.22.16 | "available knowledge"
aka articles using anonymous sources written by companies who have vested interest in slandering Trump. Impressive. How about you actually post a source big guy? |
StarlessCore
07.22.16 | http://www.nytimes.com/1999/06/26/nyregion/fred-c-trump-postwar-master-builder-of-housing-for-middle-class-dies-at-93.html?scp=2&sq=Fred%20C.%20Trump&st=cse&pagewanted=2
there are other sources you can investigate to confirm this, but this lays out Fred Trump's life give or take. Fred trump was a goat, Donald was a spoiled rich kid and got his start from the money his daddy gave him, and his daddy dominated NY metro area real estate, thus putting his son in the ultimate position by staying in queens/brooklyn and giving donald money to invest in manhattan real estate where there was virtually no competition to what they were doing
fred trump was an entrepenuer
donald trump is a liberal, always was a vocal liberal, a people you claim to hate, but you defend him
he donated money to democrats and some of the most liberal democrats for 40 years, has voiced support for years for universal healthcare, housing subsidies, anti-war, pro-choice, involved in many democratic and left wing organizations, and then legit like 1 year ago was like NAH IM A POPULIST NATIONALIST WALL BUILDER NOW DOYYYYY
like you watch him in the debate and he doesn't know a thing about anything
you watch his town halls and its hideous theres no facts or knowledge imparted, just mexico is gonna pay for the wall (they arent)
Im not gonna sit here and cite eveything for you. I do my research on these things and validate sources, im sure you could do the same. Donald Trump was a rich kid born into opportunity, inherited mad money, was given mad cash to invest into a market at the perfect time, without intervention from his father who stuck to queens/brooklyn and took the reigns of a company that was already well established and on an incredible path
he's atrocious the fact that hes made it this far is laughable its the worst thing ive ever seen he has proven he has no knowledge of these issues time and time again |
LambsBread
07.22.16 | I swear man, after the length I went to to trash that previous NYTimes article about Trump's VP pick using an anonymous source, you post another NTY article?
I agree Trump's autobiography is not accurate, but either is Hillary's biography of him (basically what you will get from NYT). |
DominionMM1
07.22.16 | "Islam isn't the main factor in people killing gay people for no fucking reason when it literally says to do so in the Quran."
it's not. there are deeper root causes. look harder and quit being so fucking lazy. |
LambsBread
07.22.16 | Interesting how you didn't bother to mention one of these "deeper root causes" or back up the idea with any reason or evidence. |
Parallels
07.22.16 | >there are deeper root causes to having a religion be the law of the land and everyone being required to obey it
no it is the root cause
you're literally defending one of the most xenophobic cultures in history aside from india and japan, except it is ruled by islam and all of it's laws are decreed from it. the populations poor wealth and shit-tier human rights are just extra issues derived from the state of government there |
oltnabrick
07.22.16 | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vL8Dz4mGv1g |
LambsBread
07.22.16 | lol |
DominionMM1
07.22.16 | "there are deeper root causes to having a religion be the law of the land and everyone being required to obey it
no it is the root cause"
i doubt that, simply because this type of thing has existed in other cultures. the spanish inquisition for example. i'm not super familiar with islam but i don't think the inquisition was done in the name of allah. |
Parallels
07.22.16 | it was all religious
>i'm not super familiar with islam
then you shouldn't even been contributing to this conversation
you're comparing them to other groups in the middle ages, when that is arguably the kind of era they are stuck in with their religious beliefs. |
DominionMM1
07.22.16 | "you're comparing them to other groups in the middle ages, when that is arguably the kind of era they are stuck in with their religious beliefs."
yeah because countries like saudi arabia are beacons for high standards of living and human advancement
let's not pretend that fanaticism and extremism are confined to islam. that's my point. i mean there are passages in the koran addressing homosexuality that are remarkable similar to the bible's. |
Parallels
07.22.16 | >yeah because countries like saudi arabia are beacons for high standards of living and human advancement
I'm almost not sure if you are being sarcastic or if you actually believe that. Saudi Arabia has awful human rights and is decried by human rights groups and LGBT people everywhere. Homosexuality is a death penalty. Apostasy is illegal. Non-Muslims are not allowed to have Saudi citizenship.
>fanaticism and extremism are confined to islam.
I never said that. |
DominionMM1
07.22.16 | "I'm almost not sure if you are being sarcastic"
wow |
Speed512
07.22.16 | deported |
Parallels
07.22.16 | |
Cryptkeeper
07.23.16 | LambsBread vs. The World |
SgtShock
07.23.16 | Lambsbread is like a caged animal, viciously lawhing out at those who are even on his side. Also, I liked the part where he wasn't sure if Stormfront was racist or not. I guess he's never been on that site before. |
LambsBread
07.23.16 | I knew when I came back to this thread it would be nothing but people complaining about me and ignoring my points.
First words I read "Lambsbread is like a caged animal" lmfao |
LambsBread
07.23.16 | "i doubt that, simply because this type of thing has existed in other cultures. the spanish inquisition for example. i'm not super familiar with islam but i don't think the inquisition was done in the name of allah."
This is an incredibly superficial and unscientific argument. Yes, let's excuse the widespread modern bad behavior of one religion because another religion was bad in the past...? What? The thing that is so frustrating about this debate is you have to actually respond to arguments like this about 1000x, there's never any serious intellectual debate, just people who don't really know the first thing about Islam and have a very limited understanding of global politics and history. For some reason people think they are good or noble for blindly defending people.
">i'm not super familiar with islam
then you shouldn't even been contributing to this conversation" [2]
Seriously. |
MyNameIsPencil
07.23.16 | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnHmskwqCCQ |
Cryptkeeper
07.23.16 | 'Also, I liked the part where he wasn't sure if Stormfront was racist or not'
He's not very bright is he?
Also the 'Breitbart isn't even pro-Trump fucking seals the deal, he really doesn't know anything. |
Cryptkeeper
07.23.16 | Also Lambs dude got ur jam
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVcdfNjIRhM |
Keyblade
07.23.16 | "This is an incredibly superficial and unscientific argument. Yes, let's excuse the widespread modern bad behavior of one religion because another religion was bad in the past...? "
an equally superficial argument is zero'ing in on modern bad behavior of [adherents of] one religion and ignoring all of the other equally widespread bad behavior by [adherents of] other religions, making out said religion and its followers unique in that respect and ignoring all other factors which influence it. it's beyond superficial, it's intellectually lazy and disingenuous
also please stop pretending like you know anything about islam and muslims beyond lame polls and shariah memes peddled by fearmongers with a clear agenda |
Parallels
07.23.16 | I would totally make a band called shariah memes |
Keyblade
07.23.16 | smae |
LambsBread
07.23.16 | "in on modern bad behavior of [adherents of] one religion and ignoring all of the other equally widespread bad behavior by [adherents of] other religions"
It's not equally widespread, at all. Try proving that instead of pulling arguments out of your ass.
"it's beyond superficial, it's intellectually lazy and disingenuous"
dear god that's rich. |
LambsBread
07.23.16 | https://i.imgur.com/N5RvaWP.jpg
It amazes me you are this clueless and still are shameless enough to try to talk down to me about my knowledge of Islam. You seriously are despicable. You assume i'm a racist or whatever because you don't even know the first thing about Islam or terrorism or theocratic oppression. Where did your political education come from Keyblade? The back of a cereal box?
"lame polls"
LMFAO!!!
'bro these scientific polls thoroughly disprove all the bullshit i've been saying LAAAAAAME!'
""stop pretending like you know anything about islam and muslims"
Please tell us where your vast knowledge of Islam comes from. I honestly bet you have not read a single fucking book on the topic. I've read dozens of books on Islam and the countries involving Islam. Screw off punk. |
LambsBread
07.23.16 | "He's not very bright is he?"
Bright enough to have thoroughly shit all over each and every one of the lame superficial arguments you made in this thread.
"Also the 'Breitbart isn't even pro-Trump fucking seals the deal, he really doesn't know anything." You got me, I don't listen to an entertainment-first news corporation, must mean I don't know anything. Wait, no, it just means you are bad at making arguments.
|
zakalwe
07.23.16 | Right I for one have had enough of this nonsense.
I'm going to ride right on into ISIS controlled territory on my unicycle and hit them hard with a major leaflet campaign.
In order to soften that hard hitting blow I'll dig out the 'ole hacky sack, chat to people and overtly reveal my agenda of hugs and love.
Treat the caliphate with respect, smiles and joy.
#terroristsneedrainbowsandmagic |
LambsBread
07.23.16 | lol Zak that's honestly not much worse of an idea than anyone in this thread on the left has come up with.
I'm 100% serious and not just saying this to make a point: These regressive leftists legitimately have no idea who they are dealing with. ISIS is like some movie to them. The routine murder of homosexuals is actually justified by them. The complete oppression and limitation on women's freedom is rationalized. Death for leaving the religion is ignored. It's mind-boggling that people go to these lengths to delude themselves.
There's really not much more I can do than point out the absurdity and hope you have the common sense to see it, sadly, virtually no one on this site does... it's basic head-in-the-sand psychology; ignorance is bliss... I think people aren't even reading what I am saying, their brains just interpret me as some sort of red blob that they have almost immediately identified as an enemy.
Trying to get certain people to be reasonable about this topic is impossible. The minute a regressive leftist hears you talking bad about A GROUP OF PEOPLE they freak out and lose their shit, no matter how many qualifying statements you give, they simply have this absurd overreaction to discrimination that makes any description of people in the aggregate taboo. |
ShadowRemains
07.23.16 | still at this shit, huh? |
LambsBread
07.23.16 | Yes, I am still trying to inform oblivious people of the reality of violent/oppressive religious maniacs. |
ShadowRemains
07.23.16 | also i really hope that you being "not sure" if stormfront is racist or not is just a lack of knowledge about the website at all on your part |
Parallels
07.23.16 | This is what happens when you allow anyone into Spuntik.
Our servers are neglected, our users are being mistreated, and tumblrites are pouring through the site. Our reviewers are going to other sites. And our site is falling apart at the seams. It's a disgrace! |
LambsBread
07.23.16 | lol good analogy
I've never been to stormfront, I've heard of it before, i've heard its "racist" but never checked. I was just saying you all call policies/certain people racist that are in no way racist, so it wouldn't surprise me if you did it again. |
Evreaia
07.23.16 | "tumblrites are pouring through the site."
I haven't seen any Tumblrina's here mentioning there are more than two genders. |
Keyblade
07.23.16 | damn i got messed up by a less than sign
"It's not equally widespread, at all. Try proving that instead of pulling arguments out of your ass."
it's not equally widespread because that's how u want it to be to justify ur rhetoric
in the real world though there are countless examples of terrorism, homophoba, misogyny, ethnic cleansing and whatever other heinous in the name of religion throughout the third world
a notobal example is extremist buddhist monks in Myanmar who regularly inspire terrorist attacks (against Muslim minorities ironically). their actions are no less than ethnic cleansing in all honesty and all in the name of religion
or the multiple high profile (not to you obviously) hindu terrorist attacks in india like that subway bombing where something like 70 people died
or in the central african republic where terrorist attacks (also against muslim) are perfectly normal especially when compared to the regular beheadings, rape, cannibalization that occur...all in the name of christianity. it is basically convert or die over there
also lol @ that chart with the wikipedia source. if we want to talk about terrorism in europe for example which is much more compartmentalized and easy to analyze not to mention relevant.....Europol conducts a yearly study on terrorism on eu soil. https://www.europol.europa.eu/category/publication-category/strategic-analysis/eu-terrorism-situation-trend-report-te-sat
from 2007-2015 'islamic' terrorism accounts for roughly 0.7% of all attacks considered to be terrorism. or from 2009-2013 the number is also less than 1% http://ivn.us/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/image-e1421565839800.jpg?65229c
you'll have to go through each individual report to confirm for yourself but the bottom line is that it is entirely incorrect to assert that muslims have a monopoly on terrorism |
Keyblade
07.23.16 | "You assume i'm a racist or whatever"
i havent assumed anything, that's an assumption on YOUR part. and you complain about words being put into your mouth smh. i havent even said a single thing about racism or anything close to that in relation to you so you can miss me with that shit
"LMFAO... bro these scientific polls thoroughly disprove all the bullshit i've been saying LAAAAAAME!"
i've already explained my view on polls a bit higher up in this thread that i'll quote once again which you've graciously ignored. i'm not a fan of using it as a barometer to judge a large group of people. HOWEVER, if you do go that route you have to be consistent because the polls on homosexuality in other parts of asia and africa where other religions are dominiant share similar numbers if not more. http://i.imgur.com/IE9np26.png?1 and this is in the same damn poll that you are citing (!). if you draw lazy conclusions on muslims using polls you have to do it for everyone i'm afraid
but i dont see you pointing to the very prominent homophobia in parts of africa to demonize christians? where are you in decrying the 2014 (!) instating of a law that executes homosexuals in uganda? a law that was masterminded by an american christian!? it doesnt fit into your narrative so it obviously doesn't matter to you
"Please tell us where your vast knowledge of Islam comes from. I honestly bet you have not read a single fucking book on the topic. I've read dozens of books on Islam and the countries involving Islam. Screw off punk."
it comes from being a muslim who studied islam for the majority of my life. i live in a muslim country and interact with more muslims in one day than you will for the rest of your life combined. i've studied islam at an islamic university and am currently taking masters level courses islamic courses. so i can peep your extremely simplified take on such a nuanced topic from a mile away fam. you throw around terms like shariah when you have absolutely no idea as to what it actually entails. which is whatever i don't expect you or anyone else for that matter to know much about it, but don't try to come at other people for being ignorant |
Evreaia
07.23.16 | Can we get back the real important matters at hand now, because apparently "tumblrites are pouring through the site."
Shit should be stopped right now. |
ShadowRemains
07.23.16 | mic drop
i mean, really |
Evreaia
07.23.16 | yeah this convo is pretty over now. |
Keyblade
07.23.16 | and here's my post from earlier in the thread on polls
"odd how he's not worried about the literal tens of millions of american christains and the majority of republicans (57%) who are in favour of dismantling the constitution entirely and replacing it with a christian theocracy
http://big.assets.huffingtonpost.com/toplines_churchstate_0403042013.pdf
http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/pdf/2015/PPP_Release_National_22415.pdf
so something like 100 million people hold these views...if we were to extrapolate from a couple of polls that is
or the fact that most christian denominations in america are more intolerant than muslims when it comes to lgbt people and their marriage
https://d1ai9qtk9p41kl.cloudfront.net/assets/mc/_external/2016_06/poll.png?h=768&w=418
i mean since we're using polls as a barometer to judge ppl, which i think is a bad way of doing things. 57% of republicans are in favor of turning america into a theocracy, and they have infinitely more political influence than muslims to achieve this goal and have been slowly doing so. but apparently we gotta be afraid of syrian refugees"
you want to post polls where muslims support shariah in nations where islam is the favoured religion to make a point when in your country 33% of the entire american population and 57% of republicans want to replace the constitution with a christian theocracy. why are u even fearmongering over some people halfway around the world and how they want their own countries to be governed when you have people with the exact same views in your own country FOR your country? |
LambsBread
07.23.16 | It's honestly pointless to try and debate this with you, you just ignore statistics.
"in the real world though there are countless examples of terrorism, homophoba, misogyny, ethnic cleansing and whatever other heinous in the name of religion throughout the third world
a notobal example is extremist buddhist monks in Myanmar who regularly inspire terrorist attacks (against Muslim minorities ironically). their actions are no less than ethnic cleansing in all honesty and all in the name of religion"
if you honestly think Buddhists are statistically as violent as Muslims, I am done talking to you. You are oblivious. You may want to actually look at the frequency of these attacks, maybe that would be relevant? |
ShadowRemains
07.23.16 | "if you honestly think Buddhists are statistically as violent as Muslims, I am done talking to you."
where did he say this? |
Cryptkeeper
07.23.16 | NO DUDE THERE CAN'T BE CHRISTIAN THEOCRATS WHAT |
Cryptkeeper
07.23.16 | Anyway I'm gonna put my money on Lambs just ignoring evidence like bakker and just go in and nitpick the fuck out of your argumentation till he turn the 'discussion' to a different subject were he can go and regurgitate 'alt'-right idiocratic nonsense |
ShadowRemains
07.23.16 | "It's honestly pointless to try and debate this with you, you just ignore statistics."
wtf?
he addressed what you posted and then proceeded to post links with statistics of their own
you claim people are "afraid to debate you" or whatever, then give them an absolute bullshit response like this when they actually engage
truly shockingly, this is exactly what i was talking about earlier in the thread |
Keyblade
07.23.16 | i just gave you statistics lol. all you've given me is a tiny and vague graph with wikipedia as a source
if you want more statistics, i'll just leave this here: the global terrorism index
http://economicsandpeace.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/Global-Terrorism-Index-2015.pdf
i'm done with this convo, the facts are there for you to investigate if you really want to find the truth. and i have no interest in debating somebody as an equal who considers me to be as bad as a nazi anyway so peace |
LambsBread
07.23.16 | "terrorism on EU soil"
So, for your "terrorism statistics" you decided to PICK EUROPE, A CONTINENT WITH RELATIVELY FEW MUSLIMS. Gee it's really hard to imagine how you skewed the statistics. SOrry, but being a Muslim doesn't entitle you to a monopoly of knowledge on the topic of Islam. If anything, it implies you lack rational thinking skills and are an extremely superstitious person (vs an atheist like myself).
You seem to think studying Islam for a long period of time is going to reveal the truth to you. That's not true. It is very possible, probable even, that you have just been indoctrinated with sugar-coated lies about your religion.
Other than that, you strawmanned me many times. I never said Christianity isn't bad. Your rants about Christianity are completely irrelevant to this conversation. The fact that you are trying to justify the bad behavior of one religion, by pointing out the bad behavior of another religion, is absurd.
The polls you posted about Christians are not worrying. Wanting to make Christianity the "official religion" is completely different than "supporting shariah law". saying "57% of republicans are in favor of turning america into a theocracy" is utter bullshit, you are completely misinterpreting the language of the polls you cited.
You basically just spammed a bunch of sources at once so it would be hard for me to concisely point out how illogical you are being.
|
osmark86
07.23.16 | Lambs, take a few moments to back track this discourse b/w you and key for a minute. Please.. |
LambsBread
07.23.16 | "Boko Haram overtakes ISIL to become the most deadly
terrorist group in the world. Deaths attributed to Boko
Haram increased by 317 per cent in 2014 to 6,644. ISIL was
responsible for 6,073 terrorist deaths.
Terrorist activity is highly concentrated — five countries
accounted for 78 per cent of deaths. Fifty-seven per cent of
all attacks and 78 per cent of all deaths occurred in only five
countries; Iraq, Nigeria, Afghanistan, Pakistan and Syria. "
Take a moment to let this sink in keyblade. Your own source just said "one Islamic group replaced another Islamic group as most deadly terror group in the world" and also "terrorism is highly concentrated in 5 Islamic countries".
You don't have a leg to stand on.
"i'm done with this convo"
Yeah, I can see why. |
LambsBread
07.23.16 | "i have no interest in debating somebody as an equal who considers me to be as bad as a nazi"
oh no, not the victim-card and straw-man argument combined! |
LambsBread
07.23.16 | "he addressed what you posted and then proceeded to post links with statistics of their own ou claim people are "afraid to debate you" or whatever, then give them an absolute bullshit response like this when they actually engage
truly shockingly, this is exactly what i was talking about earlier in the thread"
I was responding to him post by post, shut up. |
ShadowRemains
07.23.16 | no |
LambsBread
07.23.16 | all you are doing is making the thread more confusing.
It would be completely obvious that I just shit all over each and every one of his arguments if you weren't in here muddying up the water. He's so bad at arguing he just posted a source which said within the first two pages 'ISLAMIC TERRORISM IS THE MOST COMMON FORM OF TERRORISM'.
At this point i'm just going to assume you all know the truth and are just nihilists or evil. |
LambsBread
07.23.16 | He fucking used EUROPE as an example to measure Islamic terrorism... ugh |
DeadGuy
07.23.16 | you thought you were the only one... nawww playa |
ShadowRemains
07.23.16 | isn't a really common talking point that terrorists are "threatening the western way of life", especially in the wake of 9/11? i.e. Europe is a pretty good measuring point for that
i don't think anyone in their right mind is denying that boko haram or ISIL are major problems, especially in the primary countries where they operate
but to say these things regarding muslims as a whole in the "western world" is indeed misleading |
LambsBread
07.23.16 | ...
the entire point is the west doesn't want Muslim immigration because they fear their countries will become more like Islamic nations.
No, Europe isn't a good measure of terrorism... pay attention. Islamic terrorism is the most common form of terrorism. If you focus solely on Europe, like Keyblade did, you would think it is rare. That is the most dishonest bullshit factoid I can imagine, don't try and give it a pass. |
LambsBread
07.23.16 | "but to say these things regarding muslims as a whole in the "western world" is indeed misleading" I don't even know what you are trying to say, this isn't coherent. |
ShadowRemains
07.23.16 | i didn't fucking say it was rare, jesus christ
how many of the recent terrorist attacks in the west were caused by immigrants/refugees (since this is generally the point of this whole thing) and not lunatics who already had citizenship and/or have been living in their respective countries for much longer? (this is actually a legit question for someone to answer since it seems this always seems like a hot topic of discussion)
and take a second to consider that cults/extremist groups like ISIL WANT this kind of fear, they want the divide and the hate towards muslims, it's literally what they feed on |
ShadowRemains
07.23.16 | "I don't even know what you are trying to say, this isn't coherent."
to plaster muslim immigrants in with these groups is just a weak position
or, as another example, how about newt gingrich's proposed religious "tests", i'm sure that will really fix things! |
zakalwe
07.23.16 | To sum up the facts.
All Islam is shit.
Some Muslims are cunts.
Immigration does need some sort of control.
Multiculturalism doesn't work.
Some people think like children.
|
MyNameIsPencil
07.23.16 | death to all
all hail a giant meteor that smacks into the earth
like that one Australian movie |
LambsBread
07.23.16 | I didn't say you said it was rare, I said Keyblade implied it was rare with a bullshit factoid.
"how many of the recent terrorist attacks in the west were caused by immigrants/refugees (since this is generally the point of this whole thing)" That is not the fucking point of the whole thing. People's lives don't stop mattering because they live in Islamic nations. There is absolutely no reason to focus solely on Muslim migrants.
But just to answer your loaded question. for one example, the Orlando shooter was the son of Muslim immigrants from Afghanistan. If Trump was President, his parents would not have gotten in the country.
I don't care what ISIL wants, they are a pathetic group of amateurs that have only wreaked havoc because we have a country filled with people who are completely delusional. You beat terrible ideas by calling them terrible ideas and explaining why. Islam is a motherload of bad ideas. It's never going to stop fucking up the world until people get over their fears and stop believing in ridiculous superstitions. That's never going to happen when you try to lie about the obvious bad behavior of many Muslims. The idea that we should just do the opposite of what ISIS wants is absurd.
The obvious point about Muslim immigrants is ISIS can use immigration as a trojan horse. Stereotyping Muslims and/or banning some/more of them is not at all irrational when you consider Islamic terrorism is the number one form of terrorism in the world.
You can't just measure damage by counting attacks. 9/11 caused unimaginable damage by destabilizing the entire world, economy, etc.
|
LambsBread
07.23.16 | "To sum up the facts.
All Islam is shit.
Some Muslims are cunts.
Immigration does need some sort of control.
Multiculturalism doesn't work.
Some people think like children."
/endthread |
MyNameIsPencil
07.23.16 | why are all of y'all dissing ISIS?
panopticon is a stellar album |
Evreaia
07.23.16 | lol |
Cryptkeeper
07.23.16 | Am I psychic? |
Cryptkeeper
07.23.16 | 'To sum up the facts.
All Islam is shit.
Some Muslims are cunts.
Immigration does need some sort of control.
Multiculturalism doesn't work.
Some people think like children.'
Most of this is correct |
SgtShock
07.23.16 | No one here has said immigration shouldn't be controlled. No platform in the political race currently wants to outlaw all immigration control. Also, lol @ Lambs trying to tell a Muslim that they know nothing about being Muslim. Then lambs tells Key he's "playing the victim" because he said that all Muslims are no better than Nazis. Lambs is objectively the worst person I've ever seen on this site. |
Keyblade
07.23.16 | sigh, i guess i'll have to parse my position and those terrorism studies and polls and why i posted them for whoever is interested instead of being misrepresented by this Alex Jones ass nigga over here. so instead of having to repeat myself, and continue this exchange i'll just leave a long ass post here to show where i'm coming from |
Keyblade
07.23.16 | 1.) with respect to the european study, like the homie Shadow already mentioned, europe is an extremely relevant example since the majority of discourse on islamic extremism in this thread and in general is on how it affects europe and other western countries. it is especially relevant since muslims in europe and elsewhere in the west are demonized for attacks over there as a result of the narrative that they are somehow inherently more prone to violence and terrorism due to their religious beliefs
not only that but it is used as a justification to REPEL muslims who are trying to immigrate to europe which is another major part of the discourse that's also been discussed this thread. so how that can be considered irrelevant is beyond me
but anyway given the fact that they are around 6% of the EU population but account for less than 1% of the terrorism (as of 2015, not sure what the numbers would be like after this horrific year) suggests that they are actually disproportionately LESS prone to terrorism in europe than other groups. also the fact that there is a huge disparity between the proportion of attacks by muslims in stable western countries and unstable war-torn middle eastern countries further lends credence to the fact that clearly there is something more at play here than just religion. there's apparently a clash of civilizations but as shown by the Global Terrorism Index, the overwhelming majority of victims from this terrorism is muslims themselves |
Keyblade
07.23.16 | 2.) i didnt post the Global Terrorism Index to prove that islamic terrorism wasnt widespread and certainly not to suggest that it is rare which is another misrepresentation of my position
-firstly i've stated explicitly multiple times that my point was that muslims do not have a -monopoly- on terrorism and that zero'ing in on religion as the sole motivator and ignoring all other factors, most of which affect it more than religion, is lazy and myopic. my point certainly was not that islamic terrorism is not a problem or that it is not widespread. this is in black and white in this thread, and so to suggest otherwise is a gross misinterpretation of what i'm saying
also another strawman is that by bringing up examples of terrorism or religious violence it is somehow as to excuse islamic extremism. it's not, it is simply in response to the notion that has been repeated a few times in this thread of "you'll never see buddhist or christian terrorists". it is purely to show that there are people of all religions who use their religion to justify violence and that it is not unique to muslims and nothing more than that
so when i say that it terrorism is equally widespread around the world, i'm not comparing numbers or casualties. i'm saying that you can just as easily find terrorism in the name of religion anywhere as you can for islamic terrorism. are the anti-balakas in the CAR or the buddhists in Burma any better than say the taliban? and yet they don't factor into the report because they don't fit the general definition of terrorism. in fact they are arguably worse than Boko Haram or ISIS as they have ethnically cleansed along religious lines and in the case of the CAR are closing in on genocide...in the name of christianity. no doubt if they were muslim we wouldnt be hearing the end of it, but since they're christian they rarely make the news if ever |
Keyblade
07.23.16 | -secondly, i posted the Global Terrorism Index because it is a very detailed report that provides a lot of insight into terrorism around the world. and of course leave it to Lambs to read the first few sentences, pounce on a figure and go AHA and leave it there. i clearly said i would leave it there for people to find the truth, nowhere did i say "here is a link that proves that islamic terrorism is rare". if that was my intention i would have posted the relevant quote that would prove that instead of just dropping a 111 page report lol
the point is that it gives a very detailed breakdown of the most affected countries and groups and shows that it is a worldwide issue that is more prominent in regions of great instability. Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan, Nigeria and Pakistan account for 78% of all terrorism. it is no coincidence that these are 5 of the most destabilized and conflict-torn countries in the world (thanks in no small part to western geopolitics). as stated in the report with the emphasis being mine "The five most deadly terrorist groups are also responsible for more deaths than those caused by their terrorist acts. ~All of the groups also engaged in battle with either government or non-state actors.~"
there's a reason why Iraq is top of the terrorism index and Kuwait or Uzbekistan with its 84% Muslim population for example are dead last. if terrorism was purely due to religion then almost all muslim majority countries would be similarly affected instead of just the ones with the most instability. also if islam as an ideology is uniquely violent or prone to terrorism, why is this current brand of islamic extremism such a recent phenomenon? islam has existed for nearly 1.5 millenia, and yet what we're witnessing now is microscopic (and that's being generous) in the grand scheme of islamic history. where were all the muslim extremists in 1920? where were the terror attacks from muslims on western soil in the 1980's? etc etc. or did muslims suddenly wake up and understand their religion in the last 15-20 years? lol. the factors behind this recent phenomenon and its exponential surge in the last 10 or so years are clear for anyone who wants to see them. like i've said a few times already, myopically zooming in on religion to explain it is incredibly lazy and smacks of an agenda at play
http://www.abc.net.au/cm/lb/6947406/data/global-terrorism-index-data.png |
Keyblade
07.23.16 | bear with me here fellas this is the last part lol
the last point i want to clear up is with respect to the polls of american christians, it is entirely relevant to bring up the 33% of americans and majority of christians and republicans who are in favour of turning america into a christian theocracy in response to the bringing up of a poll of muslims in the middle east and their support for shariah in -their countries- and how that will affect america. and make no mistake that's what it means when they say they are in favour of getting rid of the constitution in order to make christianity the official religion. it's one thing to want to make christianity the official religion and an entirely different beast when wanting to subvert and get rid of the constitution in order to do so
and it's very relevant because using a poll in which muslims answered they support shariah to govern them in countries where islam is the favoured religion (an important distinction lambs conveniently ignores, but wants to talk about misinterpreting polls) as a justification to deny syrian refugees on account of not wanting america to become more like islamic countries is especially hypocritical considering the very real and infinitely more relevant and palpable threat to secularism and the constitution posed by people IN america. it is nothing less than fearmongering to suggest that an influx of refugees will spell the advent of the evil and scary shariah law on american soil and frankly is a very weak excuse |
Keyblade
07.23.16 | so yea that's my final say on where i stand on this topic, no point in me beating a dead horse after this. im out this bitch |
Wolfhorde
07.23.16 | " notion that has been repeated a few times in this thread of "you'll never see buddhist or christian terrorists""
Seriously? Ouch. People need to be taught more about world history and contemporary history outside of their borders.
Also, saying that tighter immigration will somehow decrease terrorism in a country that is so fucking huge and clusterfucked like the U.S. is like saying tighter immigration will decrease drug trafficking. Hint: It hasn't.
Also, the U.S. already has a DISASTROUS record of (racially charged) immigration law enforcement which has brought about ~100-300k attempted deportations (since the 70s) of either permanent residents (where there is no grounds for deportation) and actual citizens (i.e. of Mexican, Puerto Rican or Native American descent) - who, by law, cannot actually be deported. |
SgtShock
07.23.16 | Boom, roasted. |
Cryptkeeper
07.23.16 | 'Seriously? Ouch. People need to be taught more about world history and contemporary history outside of their borders'
American stereotypes |
smaugman
07.23.16 | kikjako |
Wolfhorde
07.23.16 | Also, some of the most active times of terrorism in Western Europe have been in the 70s and 80s (maybe lasting to the early 90s) with the RAF (Red Army Faction) in Germany, the IRA in Ireland and in Spain the ETA (Basque Country and Freedom) - where the major difference in strategies was targeting the state instead of civilians.
Then there's shit like the National Socialist Underground which has commited some of the heaviest terror attacks in Germany in recent memory. Strategies have changed to be much more asymmetrical and guerilla in nature, which also mimics a lot of modern wars in "Third World countries". |
Parallels
07.23.16 | Holy shit.
Moooooods |
Storm In A Teacup
07.23.16 | Are you that scared of reading you would call for the mods? |
LambsBread
07.23.16 | You guys literally aren't worth the time. Debating a Muslim on religion who ignores and/or perverts facts to fit his superficial world view, (one that involves flying horses being a real thing) can't think of a bigger waste of time. This entire thread has been a waste of time. You guys can't handle the most basic logic. Key blade comes in, spams a bunch of factoids and links all at once, says "I'm a Muslim" repeats the same strawman arguments I've discredited numerous times "Alex jones was nigga" and it actually impresses people like SgtShock because, as Sam said, some people think like children.
It's simply impossible to repond to your massive comments where you make 10 illogical points using factoids, strawman me ten times and (I haven't even read keyblades newest comments, but last time he posted he absolutely harassed himself "he seriously compared Buddhism to Islam and implied they were equally as violent philosophies based on a cherry picked example of the one Buddhist terror group he could name)
I'll try to get around to responding but honestly this is a waste of time. Keyblade isn't going to admit his religion is backwards, oppressive and violent, he's going to go to great lengths to distort the truth as all religious people do, he will lie to himself and others and there's really just no point in debating someone who lacks integrity like this and will continue strawmanning me after he knows he's putting words in my mouth.
This thread shoulda ended w "some people think like children" there is no more childish belief than religion after all, and the only valid arguments key blade makes boil down to "Christianity is bad too" which is completely beside the point.
I'll probably still repond but I really think this entire debate needs a disclaimer that I do not respect my opponent because he has lied and misparaphrazed my views countless times. |
DeadGuy
07.23.16 | jill stein 2016 |
LambsBread
07.23.16 | Actually I do t think I'll respond. The nerve of you calling me "Alex jones ass nigga" is enough for me to end the "debate"; I know you'll say and think you won, but there was never any chance of convincing such unreasonable people anyway.
Funny how regressive leftists immediately attack Alex jones. Uh, what about the Muslim Nawaz who has parroted my exact arguments? What about Hirsi Ali? Another Muslim reformer saying the same things? What about biologist Richard Dawkins, neuroscientist and philosopher Sam Harris, super-journalist Christopher Hitchens? These are all far left liberals who agree with my stance on Islam (because it's true and they don't think like children).
The fact that you routinely resort to basically saying/implying "anyone who criticizes Islam is a far right bigot" just shows how pitifully weak all of your arguments are. This is what I meant earlier when I said you basically called me a racist. You didn't literally call me a racist, but I can tell you are basically assuming you understand my views better than I do myself and are trying to write me off as an ignorant person guided by bogus superficial information, which I am not. Basically you have nothing but ad hominem arguments, strawmanning me, and posting such massive and complex comments that it's impossible for me to respond concisely; which obscures how bad your arguments really are.
Maybe if we start taking this point by point I'll continue. Maybe I'll continue if your last 3 comments were somewhat civil and you used integrity in summarizing my views (I've already seen you comparing me to Alex jones, though, so i highly doubt it)
Anyway I'll respond in about an hour if I think you are actually being mature. |
DeadGuy
07.23.16 | haha "Alex Jones ass nigga"
I just watched a video on youtube where he was literally balling his eyes out about the most idiotic shit i've ever heard hahahahaha.
the show literally stopped for like 10 minutes and all he was doing was crying hahahahaha |
DeadGuy
07.23.16 | i'm about to watch it again i can't stop laughing hahahahahahaha |
Wolfhorde
07.23.16 | "You guys literally aren't worth the time. Debating a Muslim on religion who ignores and/or perverts facts to fit his superficial world view,"
How is his world view that differentiates superficial but yours that islam is inherently a violent religion not?
"can't think of a bigger waste of time. This entire thread has been a waste of time."
Then why do you still continue?
"You guys can't handle the most basic logic."
This seems ironic given the above.
"Key blade comes in, spams a bunch of factoids and links all at once says "I'm a Muslim" repeats the same strawman arguments I've discredited numerous times"
Where?
"Alex jones was nigga"
When did he say anything to that effect?
"and it actually impresses people like SgtShock because, as Sam said, some people think like children."
How is this a logical conclusion from the information in this thread? And what defines "think like children"?
"It's simply impossible to repond to your massive comments where you make 10 illogical points using factoids, strawman me ten times"
You're repeating yourself. Again ironic.
"and (I haven't even read keyblades newest comments, but last time he posted he absolutely harassed himself "he seriously compared Buddhism to Islam and implied they were equally as violent philosophies based on a cherry picked example of the one Buddhist terror group he could name)"
You complain about strawmen, logical flaws and cherrypicking and showcase that you cherrypicked one point from his comment that you apparently gleaned over.
"I'll try to get around to responding but honestly this is a waste of time."
|
LambsBread
07.23.16 | yeah he's a clown that is easy for regressive leftists to attack. |
Wolfhorde
07.23.16 | Third time repeating yourself in addition to contradicting yourself. What now? Thsi isn't worth the time but you still respond? How is that logical? For the purpose of "educating" other members? For the sake of argument?
"Keyblade isn't going to admit his religion is backwards, oppressive and violent, he's going to go to great lengths to distort the truth as all religious people do, he will lie to himself and others"
Again, complaining about logical flaws but here you resort to ad hominems and take issue with a personal quality instead of examining the argumentation and logic displayed.
"and there's really just no point in debating someone who lacks integrity like this and will continue strawmanning me after he knows he's putting words in my mouth."
What integrity? Where specifically did he put words in your mouth?
"This thread shoulda ended w "some people think like children" there is no more childish belief than religion after all"
How is this blanket statement not superficial? Not to mention where does that logic derive from? Why is religion - as a non-fact based ideology - childish? Why not every other non-fact based ideology, i.e. political leanings?
"I'll probably still repond but I really think this entire debate needs a disclaimer that I do not respect my opponent because he has lied and misparaphrazed my views countless times."
When and where? And you're repeating yourself by the 4th to 5th time here.
|
LambsBread
07.23.16 | "How is his world view that differentiates superficial but yours that islam is inherently a violent religion not?"
My view is based on facts, polls, evidence, logic, reason. HIs is based on denying/perverting all those things so he can believe in flying horses and can manage his childish fear of death.
I'll respond to your comment later, please wait for me to respond to Keyblades newest comment first. |
DeadGuy
07.23.16 | if you're a christian then you're an idiot
if you're a muslim then you're an idiot
case closed |
ShadowRemains
07.23.16 | "he seriously compared Buddhism to Islam and implied they were equally as violent philosophies based on a cherry picked example of the one Buddhist terror group he could name)"
no he fucking didn't, he simply pointed out that there are examples within other religions of terrorist activities. you don't agree that the ethnic cleansing in Myanmar is on a similar level of despicable as the actions of Boko Haram and ISIL?
"posting such massive and complex comments that it's impossible for me to respond concisely; which obscures how bad your arguments really are."
what a copout, you've been posting similar length comments throughout this whole thread |
Wolfhorde
07.23.16 | "if you're a christian then you're an idiot
if you're a muslim then you're an idiot
case closed"
If you blanket statement you're an idiot
case closed. |
DeadGuy
07.23.16 | haha but you didn't claim that you aren't an idiot |
Wolfhorde
07.23.16 | Neither did you.
What's your point? |
DeadGuy
07.23.16 | indeed
there is no point, i'm just throwing out random offensive comments into this hilarious argument |
Wolfhorde
07.23.16 | QED |
DeadGuy
07.23.16 | yes
have a nice day sir |
LambsBread
07.23.16 | "demonized for attacks over there as a result of the narrative that they are somehow inherently more prone to violence and terrorism due to their religious beliefs"
1) Your own source listed Islam as the most violent terrorist ideology in the world. Picking Europe was dishonest bullshit and you know it, of course there aren't that many Islamic terror attacks in Europe, there aren't as many fucking Muslims. Get a grip, this is a terrible argument, and no, this discussion has not been narrowly focused on Islamic people living in the west, you just made that up entirely (I have discussed Muslim nations ad-nauseam). People repel Muslim immigration because they look at most all Islamic nations and accurately perceive that they are backwards and oppressive societies. They stop Muslim immigration because one terror attack is too many, not because they believe Muslims are the only form, or most popular form, of terrorism in Europe.
"muslims do not have a -monopoly- on terrorism" Strawman #1 No one said they have a monopoly on terrorism, i've specifically said it is the biggest terrorist idealogy by far, not that it's the only one. You are trying to obscure the frequency of Islamic terror attacks and act like "all religions are generally as violent", no, they aren't.
https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/terror-2016.htm
>>>>Let me know when you can find a list of buddhist terrorism that is 1/1000th as long as this. |
Storm In A Teacup
07.23.16 | Alex Jones is a trashy lying "journalist" based I'm fear mongering tactics. He has a bit of a following but if he didn't like 95% of the time with all the conspiracy theory fanfare he would have a worthwhile following. Luckily he doesnt because most people see behind his attention seeking bullshit. |
LambsBread
07.23.16 | "so when i say that it terrorism is equally widespread around the world, i'm not comparing numbers or casualties. i'm saying that you can just as easily find terrorism in the name of religion anywhere as you can for islamic terrorism. "
Yeah, and you are completely ignoring how infrequent terrorism is in these cultures/ideologies relative to Islam. THis isn't hard to get dude. No one is saying Islam is the only violent religion, we are saying it is by far the most violent, and the source I posted, and even the source you posted, confirms that. Stop trying to obscure the issue by blatantly ignoring Islamic terrorism is multiple times more common than other types of religious terror.
2-FIRSTLY) So you admit Islamic terrorism is widespread yet continue worshipping the same God ISIS does? Sorry, but I have no respect for this. I choose to abandon backwards violent beliefs that predictably lead to terror, you choose to justify them because you are afraid of dying and have been heavily indoctrinated by religious dogma. |
LambsBread
07.23.16 | 2-SECONDLY)
"raq, Syria, Afghanistan, Nigeria and Pakistan account for 78% of all terrorism. it is no coincidence that these are 5 of the most destabilized and conflict-torn countries in the world (thanks in no small part to western geopolitics). "
lol... chicken and egg buddy. They are destabilized BECAUSE of Islamic terrorism.
"if terrorism was purely due to religion" Can't count how many times you've made this strawman, but honestly, if you do it one more time i'm going to say i've won the debate and stop. I've said religion is a huge factor. The fact that the quran is homophobic is obviously contirubting to violence toward gay people. From my point of view, you should scrap the entire philosophy, because its harmful bullshit, from yours, you try to justify violence against innocent people to deal with your fear of death.
"slam has existed for nearly 1.5 millenia, and yet what we're witnessing now is microscopic (and that's being generous) in the grand scheme of islamic history. "
lol, you might want to read some actual history books and not Islamic revisionist bullshit. The Ottman empire wasn't exactly peaceful, Muhammad's wars of conquest were not peaceful, you are obliviously ignorant.
"where were all the muslim extremists in 1920? where were the terror attacks from muslims on western soil in the 1980's? "
Dear god you are ignorant. Have you ever heard of the Iranian Hostage Crisis of 1979? Or the 1993 world trade center bombing? The attack on the American embassy in Beirut in 83? Honestly man your knowledge of history is pitiful. This debate is a waste of time. |
DeadGuy
07.23.16 | that's one thing i have never understood about him
if everything in the entire world is a conspiracy how is he a christian?
Like he believes in absolutely nothing, yet he believes in christianity lmao |
LambsBread
07.23.16 | "last part fellas"
"33% of americans and majority of christians and republicans who are in favour of turning america into a christian theocracy"
No one favors that, you are blatantly misquoting the poll, it says nothing about Christian Theocracy. Quote it or stop making invalid arguments that i've already countered.
"are in favour of getting rid of the constitution in order to make christianity the official religion." THey didn't say that either. Yeah there is a problem with Christians lack of respect for secularism, it's infinately worse among Muslims, as polls show (try to find a poll where Christians favor death penalty for free speech).
"and it's very relevant because using a poll in which muslims answered they support shariah to govern them in countries where islam is the favoured religion (an important distinction lambs conveniently ignores, but wants to talk about misinterpreting polls)"
It's no different among Muslims living in Britian of France, they still favor shariah law, sympathize with terrorists etc.
http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/7861/british-muslims-survey |
LambsBread
07.23.16 | "the very real and infinitely more relevant and palpable threat to secularism and the constitution posed by people IN america"
Dear God. This is such an out of touch comment it is absolutely appalling. Yes, compare Christians who want the right to not bake a wedding cake for a gay couple, to Muslims who kill gay people commonly (there are over 10 Islamic nations where this occurs).
I'm not an advocate of Christianity, it is garabage, it's just not nearly as problematic as Islam, and anyone with their head out of their ass knows this because it's really not hard to observe who commits most of the violence in the world today (if you think Christians are anywhere comparable to Muslims you are mentally incapable of understanding statistics).
https://whyevolutionistrue.wordpress.com/2015/02/25/24-of-british-muslims-say-violence-against-cartoonists-who-draw-muhammad-is-justifiable/
Please let me know when you find 25% of christians who say violence is OK if people talk shit about Jesus (which people do every single day in the US and nothing happens).
"so yea that's my final say on where i stand on this topic, no point in me beating a dead horse after this. im out this bitch"
You are a coward who can only spam your superficial points, hope they wont seem so superficial because you obscured their superificiality with a long comment, and then flee before anyone can tell you how clueless you are. Your ignorance is appalling. Comparing buddhism or christianity to Islam is absurd, you deny all statistics and the prevalence of Islamic terrorism. YOu deny the existence of historical Islamic violence when it's well documented, you are so oblivious you seem to think Islamic terrorism just appeared in 2001.
That was a complete waste of time. Debating with the religious is literally the dumbest debate imaginable - why debate people who believe admitting they are wrong will land them in hell? You need to check yourself and humble yourself keyblade, all you are is a person who thinks like a child who has the nerve to assume others are bad people who don't humor your childish religious fantasies. |
LambsBread
07.23.16 | "no he fucking didn't, he simply pointed out that there are examples within other religions of terrorist activities. you don't agree that the ethnic cleansing in Myanmar is on a similar level of despicable as the actions of Boko Haram and ISIL?"
Shadow you really need to take a fucking reading comprehension class or a logic class. I SAID THE FREQUENCY OF THESE ATTACKS IS NOT COMPARABLE TO ISLAM. Does that mean I don't care about innocent people being killed by the one buddhist sect that actually kills people? NO. Does that mean buddhist doctrine is nearly as violent as Islam NO (you would have to be completely ignorant and not have any idea what Buddhist doctrine is).
God fucking damn, the most simple points routinely fly over your guys head and you just keep repeating the same strawman arguments |
LambsBread
07.23.16 | "guys islam blatantly justifies violence among people who otherwise wouldn't be violent"
"b-b-b-b-but THE IRA WAS TERRORIST TOO"
seriously, i'm done, yall think like children. Wolfhorde i've explained this all about 10x, you're late to the game and i'm not going through the same stupid bullshit again. You guys cant handle the most basic facts and make the dumbest arguments imaginable and I am absolutely done. You can think its a cop out, I don't care, you aren't reasonable people no matter how hard you try to have a facade of being reasonable with your formal tones. I could easily respond to all your points, explain how dumb you are being by saying I am "resorting to ad hominem", I am not resorting to anything, i've answered all his dumb arguments in depth, I only pointed out how pointless it is to debate religious people because it fucking is pointless and i'm done wasting my time. |
DeadGuy
07.23.16 | oh shit i found another one
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOVJK544ZOU
skip to 1:55
i literally fell to the floor crying this shit was so hilarious |
ShadowRemains
07.23.16 | excellent, now fuck off of this website for good |
DeadGuy
07.23.16 | "we let fat perverts grab them at the airport to train them for the pedophile government"
what in the fuck? How has anyone ever taken this dude seriously
im watching this shit on repeat, this shit is comedy gold lmao |
ShadowRemains
07.23.16 | "Shadow you really need to take a fucking reading comprehension class or a logic class. I SAID THE FREQUENCY OF THESE ATTACKS IS NOT COMPARABLE TO ISLAM. Does that mean I don't care about innocent people being killed by the one buddhist sect that actually kills people? NO. Does that mean buddhist doctrine is nearly as violent as Islam NO (you would have to be completely ignorant and not have any idea what Buddhist doctrine is)."
look at what i fucking quoted in that response, did you suddenly not type what you typed? keyblade DID NOT claim that buddhism and islam were equally violent philosophies for fuck sakes |
LambsBread
07.23.16 | Quote where keyblade ever admitted Islam is the most violent/common form of terrorism. He didn't. He is stubbornly denying facts and trying to obscure the issue by bringing up buddhism as a red herring. |
LambsBread
07.23.16 | Best part of this thread was when Keyblade came in, said IM A MUSLIM, spammed a bunch of illogical arguments and factoids... and it actually impressed a number of people in this thread. To repeat that, an ad hominem argument and a bunch of bullshit actually impressed you guys. Polls that are blatantly skewed to fit his argument actually impressed you guys...
that tells any reasonable person all you need to know. Most of yall in this thread are a joke and you are lucky I even dignified you with a response. I'm out. Let me know if the coward Keyblade comes back and keeps repeating the same strawman arguments about me. |
osmark86
07.23.16 | Keyblade has supported all his arguments. Please put action in to your words and take Shadow's advice and fuck off of this website. Cheers. |
Futures
07.23.16 | says i'm done with you children i'm way smarter 50 times but keeps posting |
Sinternet
07.23.16 | i wonder if lambs is just as insufferable irl |
grannypantys
07.23.16 | Elections usually have a flow and it is not very hard to look past media propaganda and tell who is going to win. Right now it sure seems like Trump is gonna take it. |
LambsBread
07.24.16 | no im cool
not trying to offend anyone, I still respect Keyblade and others but yall are completely wrong about Islam. |
MyNameIsPencil
07.24.16 | I will destroy Isis |
Cryptkeeper
07.24.16 | https://www.facebook.com/ajplusenglish/videos/766314806843362/
Wow, Trump lied again? Impossible. |
LambsBread
07.24.16 | "keyblade supported his arguments" we've been over this, some people (you) think like children and can't distinguish an illogical factoid from a coherent argument. Keyblade humiliated himself and posted a source that confirmed my thesis: Islamkc terrorism is the most frequent and common form of terrorism. At this point if you are siding with keyblade you're just stubborn and/or mad. (My favorite part is clowns like sinternet and futures who just come in here to let us all know they are butthurt that I won the argument.
|
LambsBread
07.24.16 | Quote of the thread: "some people think like children"
https://goo.gl/images/lHAbQA
Top left = keyblade
Bottom left = sinternet
Wolfhorde = bottom
ShadowRemains = bottom right
Futures = top right
|
LambsBread
07.24.16 |
https://goo.gl/images/XTxQNz
Me^ |
DeadGuy
07.24.16 | dat boi 2016
http://pixel.nymag.com/imgs/daily/following/2016/05/12/12376681_1063072477089016_3145722177588178860_n.nocrop.w536.h2147483647.2x.jpg |
smaugman
07.24.16 | christ can't wait until the elections are over so sputnik can shut up about all the politics |
Sinternet
07.24.16 | lol fucking Ben Garrison what a cuck |
climactic
07.24.16 | can a trump supporter itt please explain how the don will build the wall (~25 billion), create a mass deportation program for 11 million people, while also implementing some of the biggest tax cuts in the history of the country, while also completely eliminating the debt? have yet to hear someone with an answer that makes sense |
Cygnatti
07.24.16 | ^agreed. wouldn't trump's plan on his most notable issue be released yet? I mean he already has the nomination, yet he still hasn't told us how he's gonna pay for that wall?
or is he still banking on mexico to pay for it - even tho you can't force another country to pay for it (unless he wants to go to war over it) |
TheSpaceMan
07.24.16 | Alot candidates promise big things that can never be realized. What about Bernies free higher education? That'd be a lot more expensive then building a wall |
TheSpaceMan
07.24.16 | Worth noting I did not vote in this election and did in the last. |
climactic
07.24.16 | this thread isnt about bernie. bernie also wasnt the one, again, proposing some of the biggest cuts in history (p much the opposite)
"we're gonna make some great deals" |
Cygnatti
07.24.16 | last I recall Bernie wanted free "public institutions", I may be wrong. regardless, I've always thought Bernie's free college shtick was a bad idea. used the analogy:
Bernie is to free college as trump is wall.
Bernie bros were not happy wit me. |
climactic
07.24.16 | also worth noting that yes, his college plan wouldve been more expensive than the wall (25bn vs 62bn from what ive read), but the deportation will apparently cost hundreds of billions of dollars, not to mention hundreds of billions more from lost labor. it just doesnt make any sense, ive yet to read something from a credible source explaining how any of this word be economically feasible |
TheSpaceMan
07.24.16 | @climactic oh I forgot sput was strict on keeping threads on topic
@Cyg I just threw that out there as an example, I don't endorse trump in the slightest. I just think he gets a lot of flak in areas where other candidates dont. Obviously he's a complete ass hole and narcissist and people who target him for that aren't wrong, but alot of times it feels very bandwagon |
TheSpaceMan
07.24.16 | I agree with that anology tho. Calling trump Hitler is basically equivalent to calling bernie Stalin. |
LambsBread
07.24.16 | you honestly think 25 billion dollars is a lot of money? You really need to look at how the US government spends money.
"Build a wall?!? That's impossible" basically epitomizes the 2016 electorate, people who are so dependent on the tech ology and freedom provided to them by others that they think the ancient invention of A WALL impossible.
Like seriously stop and consider you think it's impossible for the us government to build a WALL. You may want to get some mental help tbh. |
climactic
07.24.16 | way to cherry pick 1 part out of my question which consisted of like 3 different points all in direct opposition |
LambsBread
07.24.16 | This country is literally insane. Trump: "I want to take care of our veterans"
"Omg HITLER WANTED TO TAKE CARE OF VETERANS!!!! Omfg fascist bigot racist asshole wants to put people who defend the country over law breaking illegal aliens?!? Monster!!!!!!!" |
LambsBread
07.24.16 | Really not that hard to get, cutting taxes allows businesses to invest more and increases overall government revenues (even JFK knew this, modern democrats are just demagogues who can't admit this because it ruins their class warfare narrative).
Deportation program will be done over a decade or so, you make harsh penalties for people who refuse to leave on their own and benefit people who leave voluntarily and apply for legal immigration.
Oh and you use this thing called brick and concrete to make this thing called a wall. Very complex stuff for your average modern Bernie supporter who thinks he's entitled to a comftorable lifestyle at the expense of others simply for having being born.
Yep, the people using the government to lazily rob people are calling the people they are robbing "Nazis" . Really spectacular stuff going on right now, Bernie is the voice of generation, even if it's a delusional and spoiled wrotten generation that will probably devour itself before the brats reach retirement age. |
TheSpaceMan
07.24.16 | To be fair Lamsbread, you're acting more annoying then the extreme leftist SJW liberals... and that's saying something. Talking down to someone who disagrees with your political opinions or isn't drawing the same comparisons as you is basically silencing theiron opinion, which is something the left does way too much. Usually the issue with the right is just falling back on religion, being immoral af or being too rich to understand anything. |
LambsBread
07.24.16 | Baby trump supporters are born and wonder how they can build things to make their life and the lives of people around them better
Bernie supporters are born and cry for a bottle until they get it. Cry until they get their ass wiped. Cry when a girl picks on them at school. Cry when they fail their math test. Cry until they get a trophy for failing. Cry because they didn't get into the college they want. Cry because they have to work. They are basically just children who are used to getting whatever they want. They are completely oblivious as to how the world got to this point. They seem to think everything that was built was created by whining. They are basically the type of people who talk about the things that others actually go out and do "let's not and say we did" type people. They flat out don't get that society doesn't owe them shit, and if anything they owe the older generation for making this bubble wrapped world they live in. The best Bernie supporters are ignorant, everyone else is just spoiled wrotten and so selfish that they have to constantly pretend anyon who doesn't support government extortion for their benefit is "selfish".... Astonishing isn't it? |
climactic
07.24.16 | the idea that cutting taxes will always lead to economic expansion large enough to offset the cuts is idealistic and borderline delusional
there are some historic examples of that being true but also many that show the opposite, there is so much more that goes into that argument that makes a blanket statement like that impossible to prove |
LambsBread
07.24.16 | "Being too rich to understand anything"
They've actually done psychological studies that have shown the rich can and do empathize with the poor but the poor are incapable of empathizing with the rich.
I'm not talking down to anyone. Democrat philosophy is utterly asinine,I've demonstrated this in detail, if you support it you are supporting an asinine philosophy and that's really all there is to it. Bad philosophies don't deserve the respect of "oh we all have our own valid opinions". No. There's time when there are reasonable differences of opinion in politics, this isn't one of them, anyone who seriously supports socialism today is either absurdly ignorant and has t read a page of 20th century history, or they are ruthless people who use government violence to get the frivilous things they lazily demand.
You can be buddy buddy with a bunch of people trying to rob innocent people and humor their violent philosophy, I'm not going to, it's a trash philosophy that has hurt countless number of people, that's what you just don't get, it's somewhat comparable to arguing that we should hear out holocaust deniers and respect their blatant lies as "difference of opinion". This is t disagreement, this is one group trying to lie for political power and you're trying to let them get away with it. Republicans aren't even close to perfect but anyone supporting modern day democrats is a complete sheep or an evil person. |
LambsBread
07.24.16 | It's actually historically tried and tested, you have no idea what you're talking about though because you're really only capable of parroting democratic talking points. When the effective tax rate is lower revenues have virtually always grown. The problem is superficial pseudo intellectuals like yourself focus on just one type of tax to make your invalid argument
Basically you have no idea what you are talking about and it doesn't surprise me, like I said, the democrats go to extreme measures to obscure the truth of tax breaks benefitting the economy because all their power comes from voters who believe in class warfare and building the size of the government. |
climactic
07.24.16 | yeah nah spaceman is right, you're almost impossible to talk to
the whole point of this thread was to get some genuine insight into trump supporters opinions but you're just so angry and bitter and so far up your own ass that it completely overshadows any valid points you make
""""I'm not talking down to anyone."""""
you literally just wrote a tirade against bernie supporters comparing them to entitled little babies and no one in this thread today has even identified themselves as a bernie supporter
|
LambsBread
07.24.16 | I'm actually a regularly euphoric person, I'm just trying to help you but you can't put your ego on the shelf and admit when ideas are asinine.
I didn't realize a socialist had to be in the room for me to criticize socialism. I'm not impossible to talk to, it's just impossible for you to intelligently respond to the valid arguments I brought up. |
LambsBread
07.24.16 | Basically negative people will accuse you of being negative when you point out their phony positivity
In other words, negative people like Bernie supporters will try to rob innocent peopl, then when you point out this is bad, they will call you a hater.
Basically the only tactic they have left, doesn't work on anyon but selfish people and mental-children tho |
LambsBread
07.24.16 | And the innocent and desperate poor of course
Great philosophy |
LambsBread
07.24.16 | Apparently none of you are aware that socialism was considered laughable back in the 90s. Shoulda listened to KRS like I said you should.
http://youtu.be/XajYnqGh-c0 |
SgtShock
07.24.16 | Lambs, I think that's enough internet for today. |
osmark86
07.24.16 | No lambs, you are just as impossible as multiple ppl on here have stated. You want other ppl to listen to your arguments when you give no shits about the counters. This is exactly what makes you an insufferable fuckwart regardless of how euphoric you claim to be irl. |
tigersbrokefree
07.24.16 | And that's why I'm not voting Trump. |
TheSpaceMan
07.24.16 | You shouldn't let supporters govern the merits of the candidate. If that was the case, I'd be against equal gender rights. Again I don't favor trump but I feel the weird need to defend him all the time. Usually only with teenagers and ppl in their 20s tho, I tend to defend Hilary when talking with older folk |
LambsBread
07.24.16 | Lol you're in denial. Ive answered all your counter arguments, keep namecalling and whining tho, that's why trump will win easily.
|
LambsBread
07.24.16 | I love how you point out "multiple people agree with me"
Yeah, you are five crying children grouping together who think you'll have strength in numbers where you don't have any valid arguments.
You guys go about one round, you make one single point, I discredit it easily by pointing out something so banal it's embarrassing you actually made your argument, then you start whining about how mean I am.
"Omg trump supporters think he's gonna build a wall! Thinks he's gonna deport people and actually enforce immigration laws! Idiots!"
"Uh have you never built anything in your life? Building a wall is not rocket science and deportation can be handled easily with incentives for voluntary emigration "
"Shut up you mean jerk ahhhhhh racist everyone was right about you lambs you are a terrible person!"
Sorry but it's not my fault y'all are a bunch of delicate little flowers |
zaruyache
07.24.16 | lambs first post in this thread complained about how sjws were going to ruin the country loooooooooool |
TheSpaceMan
07.24.16 | Well they certainly have potential to |
LambsBread
07.24.16 | They have already ruined the country, this thread is evidence enough of that. People can't have a 20 second debate without breaking down and saying I violated their safe space and should be more conscious of micro aggressions and use trigger warnings.
Bunch of grown ass men in here talking like children. So sad |
zaruyache
07.24.16 | "They have already ruined the country"
you can't say stupid hyperbolic bs like this then whine about other people being babies and expect me to take you seriously |
SgtShock
07.24.16 | Use Ctrl+F and notice that no one in this entire thread has said "safe space," "micro aggressions," or "trigger warnings" until Lambs just now. Just another example of him making shit up to make anyone who argues with him seem unreasonable. |
Parallels
07.24.16 | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOwFVowEugQ |
smaugman
07.24.16 | use ctrl+f and search for go to bed |
LambsBread
07.24.16 | Lol you don't literally say "I need a trigger warning" Or "stay out of my safe space" you say "Lambs is objectively the worst person" or some whiny shit like that after I get done destroying your asinine arguments. You make up dumb shit I never said "lambs said Muslims are worse then Nazis" that's basically a micro aggression. Just give up SgtShock politics just ain't yo thang
I don't need to pretend you are unreasonable you do a great job of doing that yourself. You literally haven't done anything but whined about me for this entire thread. You need to grow a pair and stop crying every time someone beats you I debate. |
LambsBread
07.24.16 | What's sad is keyblade was the best regressive leftist debater by far and he actually fleed from the debate to his safe space after about two rounds of comments. He literally said he couldn't handle debating with someone who "views him as a Nazi". Basically all any of you can do is play victim, make up shit I never said, and use it as a basis to call me a big meanie who can't be reasoned with. Reminds me of grade school honestly, kids crying about other kids, running to the teacher and making up lies about them to get them in trouble, y'all apparently never grew out of that, as Zak aptly pointed out.
The real world is going to bite you kids in the ass. Don't worry trump will be there for you |
TheSpaceMan
07.24.16 | "Lambs is objectively the worst person" [2] |
AsleepInTheBack
07.24.16 | Lambs, we get it, you're clearly of superior intellect in every possible way and we're all clearly idiots that have raised absolutely no valid points in a 1700 comment thread. That must be it. Just give it a rest. And please refrain from insulting me for ditching the tread however many hundred comments ago, it got pretty old trying to argue with a guy that won't concede a single flaw in his views |
LambsBread
07.24.16 | There's plenty of flaws in my views, yall are just arrogant kids who have more training in whining than debating and aren't capable of pointing them out. If you don't like it, I suggest you find a safespace like TheSafeMan over there and having one of the "debates" where everyone wins and everyone gets a trophy no matter how dumb your ideas are. |
Funeralopolis
07.24.16 | "Yeah, you are five crying children grouping together who think you'll have strength in numbers where you don't have any valid arguments."
Literally every political thread, fuck you Bernie supporters, Lambsbread made plenty of valid arguments but all you do is whine, gang up and dismiss his comments without actual consideration for substance. Always asking for the other side to validate themselves on the automatic assumption that you're in the right by default. This is why there is such a growing hatred for the left. |
AsleepInTheBack
07.24.16 | Several people have tried pointing out the flaws, and you ignored any comments you couldn't rebut, merely sidestepping them and insulting they user who made them to justify not addressing them. You call pretty much everyone who disagrees with you a child. I accept you've made some solid arguments here, but in never conceding that you may be slightly wrong you undermine your own arguments in coming across as someone that believes that no one else can offer any insight into what is a fairly complex debate. |
Funeralopolis
07.24.16 | You won't see anywhere in this thread Sanders supporters breaking down how his economic plans and political plans would work, I never even read the thread but I guarantee it isn't here because they never feel the need to care about substance. |
TheSpaceMan
07.24.16 | Yeah Lambs I'm so triggered, was once raped by a complete dumbass and you're bringing it all back. |
LambsBread
07.24.16 | Honestly people wonder why millennials are having a hard time finding employment. Is it really any wonder? Our schools literally train kids to whine and make excuses. To avoid having to actually defend their ideas. They praise kids for bad ideas now days, and thats how you get a thread like this where every kid who is smart enough to feed themselves thinks they are an expert on Islam and US foreign policy.
I hate to break it to you AsleepInTheBack, but i've studied this topic more than your entire family tree and friend group combined, and no, I didn't get indoctrinated by some batshit insane religious organization like Keyblade either, and i'm not going to humor pathetically ignorant ideas or asinine attempts at using logic just because it makes you feel fuzzy inside.
No, you truly didn't bring up a single decent point in a 1700 comment thread, its astonishing, but it doesn't make it any less true. I know it's hard to swallow that you could actually think you are intelligent and informed and are anything but, but it's just the truth. Y'all just repeat the same superficial bullshit that I can easily discredit with a single link, then you start complaining about how mean I am. You sound like a group of 3rd graders talking about rocket science, this topic should have never even came up for debate. I know you think you are right because there are a lot of third graders agreeing with you that the only rocket scientist in the room is a big stubborn meanie, but really you are just hopelessly delusional and so uptight you will never be broken out of your delusion becuase you think anyone challenging your ideas is a bad person for breaking down your safe space.
The funny thing is i'm the only possible thing that can save you from your case of brain cancer and you see me as the enemy. That's how toxic your indoctrination is. |
TheSpaceMan
07.24.16 | And I've argued a lot of peoples ideas, including yours. You're just super sensitive and and convinced you're right so your feelings are hurt. |
AsleepInTheBack
07.24.16 | I also conceded that I've not read the whole tread, and its likely that people have made some pretty shitty arguments that Lambs and others have understandably rubbished. But from what I saw he ignored fairly nuanced critique of his views, which was a little frustrating. I all for people having controversial opinions, so long as they listen to and respond to others opinions, especially when they are well thought out |
LambsBread
07.24.16 | " Lambsbread made plenty of valid arguments but all you do is whine, gang up and dismiss his comments without actual consideration for substance." [2]
/endthread |
LambsBread
07.24.16 | "Several people have tried pointing out the flaws, and you ignored any comments you couldn't rebut"
No, they didn't, and if they did you would simply repost their quotes, but they didn't so you cant. All you can do is whine and make up bullshit about how unfair I am. Try actually making an argument.
/endthread |
TheSpaceMan
07.24.16 | Of course he made valid arguements. And I've defended some of his. But soon as I disagree, I'm crying in my safe space. The problem isn't in his points, it's that he literally explains his points like a 5 year old. |
TheSpaceMan
07.24.16 | All you do is whine jesus fucking christ. You're whining about people whining. |
SgtShock
07.24.16 | Trigger Warning: "a statement at the start of a piece of writing, video, etc., alerting the reader or viewer to the fact that it contains potentially distressing material (often used to introduce a description of such content).
Not seeing where I did that. Point it out, if you can find it.
Safe Space: "A place where anyone can relax and be fully self-expressed, without fear of being made to feel uncomfortable, unwelcome or challenged on account of biological sex, race/ethnicity, sexual orientation, gender identity or expression, cultural background, age, or physical or mental ability; a place where the rules guard each person's self-respect, dignity and feelings and strongly encourage everyone to respect others."
I never claimed Sputnik (or this thread) should be a safe space on any level. But, once again, point out where I did if you're so sure.
Microaggression :“brief and commonplace daily verbal, behavioral, or environmental indignities, whether intentional or unintentional, that communicate hostile, derogatory, or negative racial slights and insults toward people of color.”
Now I'll admit to mixing up the nazis quote with Baak and you, but to be fair, you've misquoted me at least 3 times so far (on right-wing conspiracies, saying everything's fine, and that afghanistan is a music album). You've never answered to that, either.
You also ignored my request for evidence that Donald Trump's immigration reform would help the country, which is a pretty reasonable question. Instead you posted an opinion poll from 3 years ago which has very little bearing on the legitimacy of mass deportation or a temporary ban on Muslim immigrants.
Furthermore, when Keyblade mentioned Canada as an example of muslim immigration (at quadruple the level the United States' currently is) you dismissed Canada as being irrelevant and not a good comparison. Then you compared Afghanistan to the US. Afghanistan is in proximity to one of the most destabilized regions in the world. It's a warzone. How is that more applicable to the US than Canada? These are numerous points you've never addressed. Instead, you just spit insults. Can you blame me for putting less effort into my posts if you never actually address them in an intellectual manner? No one wants to argue with someone who is basically just a ball of rage and insults them on every point.
To be fair, I don't believe Sputnik is (or ever will be) a place where rational discussions will be commonplace, but you're just over the top.
|
AsleepInTheBack
07.24.16 | Lambs, no one here other than yourself (which I find questionable given the bull headed way you choose to have a conversation) has claimed to be an expert in this area. The fact you think no one other than your self brought up a valid point in 1700 posts is astoundingly arrogant. I never complained that you were mean or whatever, I just said you didn't address a lot of my arguments, which is still true. Im fine with someone challenging my views, if anything i welcome it as its nice to get a fresh perspective, especially if you are the expert you say you are, and again I think youve made some good points. But, I reiterate, you throw around all these links but, at least in the part of the thread I was in, you failed to address several arguments and instead just insulted all the users that disagreed with you, which is just as childish you claim we all are |
SgtShock
07.24.16 | My problem with Donald Trump is that there is a disconnect between what he promises America and how, exactly, he plans to do it. Like other users have pointed out, the wall idea is hardly hashed out in the slightest, whether it's the funding or its purported effectiveness. In his last speech he promised "law and order" and to end the recent wave of crime and violence that has afflicted our nation. But how? The president has little to no control over law enforcement at that level. Even supreme court appointments have little bearing on day-to-day violence and murder, as do any attorney appointments he makes. It's really a half-baked claim that sounds nice but doesn't actually hold water.
Now that's not even getting into his character, which is a completely different story... |
AsleepInTheBack
07.24.16 | "To be fair, I don't believe Sputnik is (or ever will be) a place where rational discussions will be commonplace, but you're just over the top." [2] |
LambsBread
07.24.16 | uh no, Pointing out people are whining isn't whining, use a dictionary.
No, as soon as you are crying in your safe space, you are crying in your safe space. Don't act like I don't respond to your arguments, i've responded substantially to every single fucking argument in this thread, all you can do is lie about me. |
TheSpaceMan
07.24.16 | Lambs is busy sucking his thumb in his safe space and plays it off by laughing at all the SJW fucks who wanna join him |
TheSpaceMan
07.24.16 | "Use a dictionary"
10/10 clearly has an undergrad in political science or w.e the fuck it is you claim to have |
TheSpaceMan
07.24.16 | But toad it's just so fun to rile this guy up. You should try it! I'm a registered Republican and I feel like pretending I'm not just to have reason to argue more with him |
LambsBread
07.24.16 | I am not going to get into a semantic debate over "safe space" the point is yall are whiny as fuck and try to group up to dismiss my comments when you can't actually counter them intelligently.
"Furthermore, when Keyblade mentioned Canada as an example of muslim immigration (at quadruple the level the United States' currently is) you dismissed Canada as being irrelevant and not a good comparison"
There you go, lying again. No, I didn't dismiss anything, I pointed out there are more Muslims in the US than there are in Canada, so painting Canada, a country that is 95% white and has about as many people as the US does illegal immigrants, as some sort of land of diversity or multiculturalism, is absolutely asinine.
Furthermore, I never said the fucking sky was going to fall if we let in some Muslims. The point is there is no point in doing so. In situations like this reasonable people err on the side of caution, they don't let a group of intolerant potential terrorists come flooding into the country to prove to their black friends (of which they have none) that they aren't racist.
"Afghanistan is in proximity to one of the most destabilized regions in the world. It's a warzone."
uh... it is a warzone BECAUSE OF MUSLIMS. You might want to consider the significance of this. The region has been fucked up since anyone can recall because of MUSLIMS FIGHTING OTHER MUSLIMS OR OTHER RELIGIONS. But yeah, go ahead and ignore all the motivations of the wars being fought there and focus on war itself... I gaurantee you are one of these dim people blaming the US for Iraq when 75% of the violence there is a Muslim Civil War.
"You also ignored my request for evidence that Donald Trump's immigration reform would help the country, which is a pretty reasonable question. Instead you posted an opinion poll from 3 years ago which has very little bearing on the legitimacy of mass deportation or a temporary ban on Muslim immigrants. "
I didn't ignore anything, I just told you're being absurd. I don't know if you just got out of college or something, but there aren't scientific sources for every fucking decision you are going to make in life. A never-before-seen policy like banning Muslims is one of those sort of decisions. And yes, the homophobic and oppressive opinions of the people wanting to immigrate is very relevant. Saying it isn't is asinine and stubborn - that's why I don't seriously engage with you, it never gets past you refusing to admit to the most obvious truths about Islam.
"No one wants to argue with someone who is basically just a ball of rage and insults them on every point."
Nope, just countered every point you just mentioned for the fourth or fifth time, keep lyin tho
|
TheSpaceMan
07.24.16 | I heard trump wants to build a wall, but I think it's too expensive. Instead we should put our money towards safe spaces and helping Muslim refugees |
LambsBread
07.24.16 | SpaceMan isn't even a good troll, you know you're dumb when you can't even troll well. |
TheSpaceMan
07.24.16 | But only the top 1%'s money, because it isn't fair that they are the top 1% and the other 99 aren't |
TheSpaceMan
07.24.16 | Wtf no trigger warning? |
AlexKzillion
07.24.16 | Holy fuck this thread blew up |
AsleepInTheBack
07.24.16 | Oh and Lambs, here are some argument you failed to address.
You felt that the idea to banning certain refugees from countries where such refugees would be more likely to be terrorists would be a justified policy. I argued that this would be disproportionate. I'm current a 3rd year law student and such a policy would be thrown out of any human rights court (ECtHR, CJEU, etc) as completely disproportionate (there is a 3 stage test but I'm sure you know that, being an expert in everything). You can't ban a whole countries worth of refugees solely because a small handful of them may possibly be terrorists.
Additionally you tried to rebut my argument about immigration. I said that Trumps stance on immigration is impractical, which you didn't discuss. You tried to argue that the UKs policy was worse than Trumps proposals and thus that my argument was hypocritical. I replied saying the UKs policy was highly unsatisfactory and excites feelings of xenophobia and racism and thus the US moving towards a similar policy was unsatisfactory, which you didn't address.
You also decided that my comments, and other's, on how he has made sexist, racist etc. comments were the equivalent of calling Trump a 'meanie'. The attitude that, arguably, the most powerful role in the world takes to such issues is incredibly important, its not a case of me running out of substantive arguments and calling him out for being mean.
Im sure you could come up with strong counter arguments, but that doesn't change the fact you failed to address some arguments that I made, which is my point |
TheSpaceMan
07.24.16 | Like I said earlier, if you disagree with a leftist extremist, you're silenced by being called a racist, inhumane, or my favorite being told to "check your privilege". But youre doing it toon lambs, telling all these guys that they're child like and demand handouts and shit. Hell you did it to me, and I'm so against SJW and the extreme left it's not even funny |
SgtShock
07.24.16 | Lambs: "Sorry but Canada isn't noteworthy enough for me to remember how to spell their irrelevant PM's name"
That's a dismissal if I've ever seen one. Also, you chose to compare total numbers, which isn't the entire picture. Proportionately, The US has 1% muslim population. Canada has 3%.
Yes, conflict in Afghanistan revolves around Islam (although, numerous other factors have contributed to that area's history of warfare as well), but my point was that using Afghanistan as an example to keep Muslims out of the U.S. is hyperbole. The United States has much more in common with Canada than it does with Afghanistan.
As for the evidence that Trump's policy would be effective? You can't just call me absurd when asking you to back your arguments up with data on immigration. I also never said there needs to be sources for every decision one makes in life. I said that you need evidence and research before making policy decisions which affect millions of people. That is not absurd at all.
Lastly, I wasn't lying when I said people don't want to argue with an angry person who keeps insulting them. Everyone wants their arguments to be heard and answered for. Calling people children, insulting the millenial generation, saying people get their political education from a cereal box, etc. really hurts your position in this debate because it makes you look like you're afraid to hear people out. You just come off as a the type of person who intimidates people into submission rather than using letting the legitimacy of your argument do the talking. |
LambsBread
07.24.16 | "You felt that the idea to banning certain refugees from countries where such refugees would be more likely to be terrorists would be a justified policy. I argued that this would be disproportionate. I'm current a 3rd year law student and such a policy would be thrown out of any human rights court (ECtHR, CJEU, etc) as completely disproportionate (there is a 3 stage test but I'm sure you know that, being an expert in everything). You can't ban a whole countries worth of refugees solely because a small handful of them may possibly be terrorists."
This isn't an argument, it's you bragging about being one of 10 million lawyers and cokcily/vaguely saying its illegal cuz you are a lawyer who says so.
" I said that Trumps stance on immigration is impractical, which you didn't discuss"
yes I did, it's not impractical, that's just something you assumed with no evidence. You give incentives to people who emigrate voluntarily to save money and opportunity cost, and you do it over a long period of time. The country saves money by getting law-breakers out of the country, opens up employment opportunities for legal citizens and cuts the need for welfare, SS, medicare etc etc.. not to mention it helps national security and other issues. Mentioned this about 3x at least, you are just blatantly lying though.
"I replied saying the UKs policy was highly unsatisfactory and excites feelings of xenophobia and racism and thus the US moving towards a similar policy was unsatisfactory, which you didn't address. "
Saying UK's immigration policy leads to racism is a non-sequitur (i'm sure you know that) , sorry but I don't address nonsensical assumptions like this that are nothing more than pedestrian race-baiting masquerading as a sophisticated point by a ridiculously pretentious author (IE "i'm a lawyer!").
"You also decided that my comments, and other's, on how he has made sexist, racist etc. comments were the equivalent of calling Trump a 'meanie'"
Another lie. I said your examples of alleged sexism and racism are heavily taken out of context and distort his views entirely, and that if you actually had the courage to cite an example I could explain how you are distorting its context (you then left the thread and didn't cite a single example). |
AsleepInTheBack
07.24.16 | You've bragged that your an expert in this field for pages, I make a legal argument because I have some legal knowledge and you respond with a hypocritical argument, good one.
It is impractical. There have been studies (OMG I'm not citing my sources, i must be wrong) that show that over 10% of certain industries including agriculture are made up of illegal immigrants. Forcing them to be send back would risk crippling those industries, admittedly in the short term.
Its not a non-sequitliur. The policies adopted and, as example, events such as the Brexit vote, a vote showing a distaste for more open immigration polices, have led to a high number of reported racial based attacks (just check any reputable UK news outlet, its all there). They appear to legitimise xenophobic beliefs, hence why they are a problem. |
LambsBread
07.24.16 | "That's a dismissal if I've ever seen one."
This is what you always do. You take one tiny clip of my comment and ignore all of the substantial points I make.
Yeah, 3% in a tiny country with more living space than any other country. Not impressive.
"although, numerous other factors have contributed to that area's history of warfare as well"
This is you vaguely making excuses for Islam, yet failing to actually mention a single actual "other factor", because you know the other factor will pale in comparison to Islam. You and others do this consistently, hiding behind the vague term "other factors" routinely.
"but my point was that using Afghanistan as an example to keep Muslims out of the U.S. is hyperbole. "
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XELamUnF0EU
Dear god, this is one of the most asinine statements i've ever heard.
"The United States has much more in common with Canada than it does with Afghanistan." Canada hasn't demonstrated anything. They have a million Muslims in their country, wow, that doesn't prove anything about what would happen if the US went from 1 million Muslims to 10 million.
"You can't just call me absurd when asking you to back your arguments up with data on immigration. " Nope I called you absurd for ignoring each and every poll available on the beliefs of the very people you are advocating for immigration.
"Calling people children, insulting the millenial generation, saying people get their political education from a cereal box, etc. really hurts your position in this debate because it makes you look like you're afraid to hear people out. You just come off as a the type of person who intimidates people into submission rather than using letting the legitimacy of your argument do the talking"
No one complains about this type of thing who doesn't want a safe space. You are literally asking me to make sputnik a safe space, so don't say "I am not advocating making sputnik a safe space". If you have bad ideas, I am going to ridicule them. It's not like anything i've said has been in bad humor, or needlessly insulting you like others have done to me with random shots at what im like irl. Yall are just whiners, you whine when you are stuck with no way out of the debate. You've been raised to think of whining as a noble thing. |
AsleepInTheBack
07.24.16 | Its like arguing with a brick wall |
LambsBread
07.24.16 | "You've bragged that your an expert in this field for pages, I make a legal argument because I have some legal knowledge and you respond with a hypocritical argument, good one. " lol no I haven't I have told a bunch of highschool kids to shut up about Islam when they literally don't know the first thing about it "what's afghanistan, why is it relevant to Islam?" etc. That's a farcry from you making claims and vaguely backing it up with "i'm a lawyer, watch me drop some acronyms yo!"
"It is impractical. There have been studies (OMG I'm not citing my sources, i must be wrong) that show that over 10% of certain industries including agriculture are made up of illegal immigrants. Forcing them to be send back would risk crippling those industries, admittedly in the short term. "
Unnamed sources, wow I guess even lawyers aren't safe from PC/SJW asinine arguments. It's not that you must be wrong, it's that you are bad at making arguments, seriously amazed if you pass the bar.
Anyway, assuming all the bullshit you made up and didn't post any evidence for is true, has it ever occurred to you that maybe the US economy would benefit from not being made up substantially of agricultural work? I'm not sure an industry that is only surviving because of ILLEGALLY PAID WAGES is a great business model, but you are a LAWyer so (insert something vague here).
"a vote showing a distaste for more open immigration polices, have led to a high number of reported racial based attacks "
In other news, storks tend to migrate in the spring, the same time when the fertility rate in the UK is the highest. I guess the storks brought babies right? Oh wait I forgot, you are a lawyer, but you apparently didn't learn that a correlation doesn't prove causation.
|
SgtShock
07.24.16 | I didn't say it needed to be a safe space. I'm letting you know how you come off when you resort to insults in every other post. |
LambsBread
07.24.16 | Yeah, you've basically been slamming your head into a wall with your nonsensical arguments and childish grasp on logic, I agree. |
LambsBread
07.24.16 | I don't resort to insults every other post, you just pretend I do and are hyper-sensitive, so you can ignore the substance of my arguments. (for the hundreth time).
You've literally whined about me for about 100 posts and made maybe 2-3 substantial comments that I easily discredited. |
TheSpaceMan
07.24.16 | Lambs where did you get your degree? |
LambsBread
07.24.16 | degreeS***
I'll tell you, but only if you get your name changed to TheSafeSpaceMan |
TheSpaceMan
07.24.16 | Lol I'm genuinely curious dude why dodge the question? That's getting old btw, but I'm starting to realize it's the only thing you know how to say with me. When did I ever come off as offended by your arguements? I just find you incredibly annoying. If it takes sitting next to a fat lesbian with blue hair preaching about the wage gap to shut you up, then it's honestly wor th it. |
TheSpaceMan
07.24.16 | For the 50th time, I'm the ONLY person in this thread who outright agreed with you that SJW are really hurting this country. What are you occomplishing by pegging your only vocal supporter as one? Dipshit. |
osmark86
07.24.16 | Please lambs, make sputnik a safe place. All your assumptions about us are true I just didn't realize until now. |
SgtShock
07.25.16 | You're just proving my point. Keep on digging. |
TheSpaceMan
07.25.16 | Okay so I honestly thought you had an undergrad degree, but your silence says otherwise. Congratulations, you managed to occomplish your goal of making me feel dumb. |
LambsBread
07.25.16 | Hearts don't mend
Brothers turned to enemies
Nigga, enemies I eat them raw
Nigga, Lambsbread is God of War |
someguest
07.25.16 | Sanders > Trump > Clinton
truth |
TheSpaceMan
07.25.16 | I'm also done egging on an idiot who calls me a safe space lover when we share the same party, defended trump with you, agree with the idea that leftists can be the worst ppl ever, and have said so many times I hate SJWs that my phone now recognises it as a word I use frequently. You are a living counter arguement to my statement that leftists are more annoying then the right, so that's the only opinion of mine you've managed to change with your fake political science degree and pages of shit spewing rants. |
LambsBread
07.25.16 | You can hide behind the mask
but you see through like glass
Thought you was the Truth
but your style's like ass. |
SgtShock
07.25.16 | @someguest: Bernie > Hillary > Trump for me. Clinton's policies are way more similar to Bernie than Trump's. (insert beejr or bleach meme here) |
TheSpaceMan
07.25.16 | "Clinton's policies are way more similar to Bernie than Trump's"
Well obviously lol |
SgtShock
07.25.16 | I thought it was pretty obvious, too. |
Cryptkeeper
07.25.16 | ' This country is literally insane. Trump: "I want to take care of our veterans" '
Remember when he raised money for them and attempted to take a huge part of it until journalists got on his ass and he had to actually give veteran supporting agencies their money months after he would have?
What an illustrious man.
|
Cryptkeeper
07.25.16 | Also Lambs, when about 20 people in this thread from all kinds of different political angles tell you you're acting like a child with an inferiority complex (and actually [2] a remark praising you, like Jesus Christ man are you 12), and you got 2 guys having your back who (what a coincidence) share the exact same opinion as you, don't you think it's a sign you need to change? |
Cryptkeeper
07.25.16 | Also recurring theme: both you and bakker have to play up how intelligent/happy/content you are irl, which is just a massive indication of personal issues, or just autistic behaviour. |
BlacKapes
07.25.16 | nah dude lambs is a fucking genius when it comes to religion and politics, i wish i was that enlightened to know everything about everything.
just cut my dick off and i'm bleeding to death on my floor [3] |
LambsBread
07.25.16 | "Also Lambs, when about 20 people in this thread from all kinds of different political angles tell you you're acting like a child with an inferiority complex (and actually [2] a remark praising you, like Jesus Christ man are you 12), and you got 2 guys having your back who (what a coincidence) share the exact same opinion as you, don't you think it's a sign you need to change?"
No, I just think you are a little bitch tbh. Not my fault you need a safe space and can't handle the truth about Islam. It's more like 10 petulant children with superficial political views talking to the only three people who have any idea wtf they are talking about. I'm leaving Sputnik, so save your whining for someone who gives a shit. I'll be back when Eminem drops that new Afghanistan album. |
MyNameIsPencil
07.25.16 | did the person who invented college go to college? |
bakkermaarten007
07.25.16 | "Also recurring theme: both you and bakker have to play up how intelligent/happy/content you are irl, which is just a massive indication of personal issues, or just autistic behaviour."
False. I have only played up how incredibly naive you are, childlikely naive.
to add to this: you only have done the following in this thread:
a) insult me for autist, idiot, racist or what not
b) encouraged me to kill myself
c) let me know how 'evil' or 'vile' I am
d) disregarded facts and figures with the phrase ' I knew you would post something like this'. Hint: if you knew it bravo. But anticipating what I do does not refute what I do.
In other words: you have been behaving like a very one-sided referee.
While I was away: a) Germany suffered three attacks. b) all the perpetrators had 'mental illness' accordingly. c) lambsbread made a number of good points, although I do not agree with his agressive style (which also carries a number of insults) but I do manage- unlike most of you- to control my temper in such cases and view his points for what they are, not witholding his aggressive style.
(but I do understand his aggressive style. While I refrain from overly aggressive methods, it is extremely exhausting to see your points falsely ignored or refuted when they are valid.
|
RadicalEd
07.25.16 | "a) Germany suffered three attacks. b) all the perpetrators had 'mental illness' accordingly."
One of them (the biggest by far, the munich shooting) has absolutely NOTHING to do with anything you guys were rambling about the last 1000 posts.
The second one (the guy with the axe in the train) is a self radicalized insane person with no ties to the organisation. But obviously indoctrinated himself into believing the vile hatred that is spread by the IS. (So it would be valid to bring him up in the context of this discussion)
The third one just happened last evening and nobody knows, so I'd suggest shutting up about it, until facts are out. |
zakalwe
07.25.16 | All immigrants though. |
bakkermaarten007
07.25.16 | "One of them (the biggest by far, the munich shooting) has absolutely NOTHING to do with anything you guys were rambling about the last 1000 posts.
The second one (the guy with the axe in the train) is a self radicalized insane person with no ties to the organisation. But obviously indoctrinated himself into believing the vile hatred that is spread by the IS. (So it would be valid to bring him up in the context of this discussion)"
But there was 'allahu akhbar' shouting (Munich), which was only covered by cnn.
guy w-with axe: 'self-radicalized'. So nothing to with Islam ofcourse? IS uses the same book that 'regular' Islam does, haven't you received the memo? (sigh)
"The third one just happened last evening and nobody knows, ..."
But it was someone from Syria (likely to be muslim), with a bomb (as used by suicide terrorists, which are almost exclusively muslim these days).
given the prehistory one can assume.
Also some side information, since I keep hearing arguments that 'white Europeans' commit crimes too: the muslim population is still below 10% in most European countries, yet the biggest slice of the terrorist pie goes to them.
A white European male who commits an atrocity? It does not explain the fairly large discrepancy between muslim numbers and(radical) muslim bloodshed. |
bakkermaarten007
07.25.16 | "self radicalized"
Gosh... (maybe there was some book to guide him? I'm just guessing here lol) |
bakkermaarten007
07.25.16 | You won't turn orange with a dubious haircut if you acknowlege the islamic problem. Try it some time. |
smaugman
07.25.16 | iterally every political thread, fuck you Bernie supporters, Lambsbread made plenty of valid arguments but all you do is whine, gang up and dismiss his comments without actual consideration for substance. Always asking for the other side to validate themselves on the automatic assumption that you're in the right by default."
this x10 |
iloveyouall
07.25.16 | [2] |
zakalwe
07.25.16 | To be so virtuous, ethical and loving must be fucking shit. Human beings must take advantage all the time. |
smaugman
07.25.16 | literally worst user ever11!1 |
iloveyouall
07.25.16 | probably top 5 |
TheSpaceMan
07.25.16 | Plenty of people including myself have acknowledge his points. I have agreed with almost all of them before opening this thread for the first time. I just don't like the way he argues cause it makes my side look bad. But I really shouldn't be that uptight about it I guess. |
bakkermaarten007
07.25.16 | " I just don't like the way he argues cause it makes my side look bad. But I really shouldn't be that uptight about it I guess."
I get you. And I get why he argues the way he does too. |
TheSpaceMan
07.25.16 | Yeah I mean at first I thought it was funny but then it really started to bother me that he was incapable of forming an arguement that was convincing. Nothing to do with his points, it's just hard to be convinced by someone who acts like that. It's like all the legitimately racist red necks who make Trump look awful, just in a much less offensive and much more annoying way. |
zaruyache
07.25.16 | Not to go in a cirle but it's not Trump's supporters who make him look bad. |
TheSpaceMan
07.25.16 | They certainly contribute |
SgtShock
07.25.16 | I'll admit I got pretty snarky towards the end of this thread, but I was just really frustrated that Lambs never backed up his claim that Trump's immigration reform(?) would help this country with any evidence. I asked over and over and got called an idiot for even suggesting that policies that affect millions of people should probably have some research done before they are enacted. He also never addressed my point on Trump's empty promises to eliminate the recent wave of crime he described in his speech a few days back (which isn't in the POTUS' power). Anyways, I'm actually glad everyone's so heated about this stuff. It shows that people actually care about the world's state, and even though we might disagree, at least we're passionate enough to blab on about it for 1700 comments. |
Typhoon24
07.25.16 | this thread is why trump is gonna get elected. sjw's can be annoying but they're not what's wrong with this country. and neither are feminazis. and if someone thinks that islam is a religion that we shouldn't treat as peaceful or that we should be harder on illegal immigration, that's okay too.
the problem is our attention spans are too short, we all hate too much, we jump to hasty conclusions and put our heads in the sand whenever a mofo disagrees with us. |
guitarded_chuck
07.25.16 | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IdhinuztGrw
varg basically reads my mind here, if you want my actual not-trolling opinion check the vid |
SgtShock
07.25.16 | It's a pretty bleak view, which I understand can be quite appealing -- especially to a population that feels impotent in the face of an election. But doesn't the whole 'prepare for the end of days' thing come off as a bit silly? Survivalism is just so cringey to me. Sorry if that's something you identify with. |
guitarded_chuck
07.25.16 | dont apologize i could give less of a fuck what you think tbh
i used to be less apathetic towards other people's sheepish views, ignorance, conformism, but i stopped caring awhile ago
all i will say is that it is inevitable that a exponentially growing population who is reliant of a non-renewable source of energy to fuel it's economy, an economy of whose distribution of wealth continues to shrink over time, will eventually under-go a revolution or simply collapse
by the way im not american, and i think one of america's biggest issues is the two party system |
SgtShock
07.25.16 | This is a good opinion. I like this opinion. |
Parallels
07.25.16 | "Plenty of people including myself have acknowledge his points. I have agreed with almost all of them before opening this thread for the first time. I just don't like the way he argues cause it makes my side look bad."
Agreed |
TheSpaceMan
07.25.16 | "i used to be less apathetic towards other people's sheepish views, ignorance, conformism, but i stopped caring awhile ago"
lol so enlightened |
TheSpaceMan
07.25.16 | You're right about the insustainability of our world and esp the party system for sure tho |
guitarded_chuck
07.25.16 | not trying to sound pretentious honestly, ive just realized that greed and selfishness is the default setting for humans so whats the point of stressing over it, you cant change human nature ya dig
i mean if that idea comes across as pretentious and "derp lul im enlgitheend" then maybe its something you should consider |
Evreaia
07.25.16 | so eughm, can we get this thread to 2k comments
gotta make convo's on sputnik great again |
NastyCrab
07.25.16 | This is a music website. [47659247135] |
guitarded_chuck
07.25.16 | this discussion is probably over your head buts its ok heres the door [494854765817450812349083] |
TheSpaceMan
07.25.16 | Nah no worries chuck good response, trust me I agree with you but you have to admit how pretentious "I'm in college and smoke pot" it sounded, gave me a chuckle |
NastyCrab
07.25.16 | could care less what you think but I'm permanently tied to this pseudo-intellectual masturbatory mess of a list since I made the mistake of commenting days ago. |
NastyCrab
07.25.16 | also nice ad hominem attack. can tell there's a real mature discussion going on here. |
TheSpaceMan
07.25.16 | NastyCrab is just disappointed this isn't an Opeth ranked list where the actual intelligent discussions take place |
Cryptkeeper
07.25.16 | 'a) insult me for autist, idiot, racist or what not'
:')
'b) encouraged me to kill myself'
I was actually a 100% serious how did you know
'c) let me know how 'evil' or 'vile' I am'
No.
'd) disregarded facts and figures with the phrase ' I knew you would post something like this'. Hint: if you knew it bravo. But anticipating what I do does not refute what I do.'
That video was a guy explaining what he thought was going on in the West, which means it's no factual.
And I refuted his supposed knowledge on the case but you disregarding that is impossible of course because you never ever ever are hypocritical on someones handling of a discussion lmao |
Cryptkeeper
07.25.16 | I mean you're acting like a massive twat and even fucking prophesying on the internet of a threat you still can't back up with factual evidence.
Then you get mad when people ridicule you. I'm not using autist as an insult here (never did, I have been diagnosed with Aspergers), but Jesus man you're acting really autistic rn |
Parallels
07.25.16 | wait |
LoLifant
07.25.16 | Yo yanks should make Arnie your pres. Austrian at the top of another country always worked out fine so far. |
SgtShock
07.25.16 | One time I showed a close friend of mine a blog post I thought was really interesting. He said it was extremely autistic. I thought that was uncool of him. |
Cryptkeeper
07.26.16 | Me and my autistic friends constantly joke about autism. Any autist who get's mad when you say it in a humorous tone is a massive nobhead and should be ignored |
Iamthe Nightstars
07.26.16 | Johnson > Sanders > Trump = Clinton |
LoLifant
07.26.16 | Arnie > all |
Snide
07.26.16 | Johnson > (very minutely) Trump >>>>> Sanders >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Clinton |
porcupinetheater
07.26.16 | Seizing the means of production > Stein > Sanders > Johnson > a swift kick in the balls > the two party system |
Cryptkeeper
07.26.16 | Johnson > Sanders >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Clinton > Prostate cancer >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> LambsBread >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Trump |
Cryptkeeper
07.26.16 | His stance on gun regulation is shite but at least his foreign policy is on point |
TheSpaceMan
07.26.16 | Burgers > hot dogs |
ArsMoriendi
07.26.16 | "Stein > Sanders > Johnson > a swift kick in the balls > the two party system"
I like this haha |
someguest
07.26.16 | Hopefully HRC has another seizure and drops fuckin' dead. |
LepreCon
07.26.16 | Johnson better than Bernie? Libertarians are pretty much just conservatives who are cool with legalizing weed |
Mephistopheles
07.26.16 | social libertarianism is the only sensible position there is, economically it is more debatable |
Mephistopheles
07.26.16 | Let me help you. Start here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarianism |
rufinthefury
07.26.16 | I know what libertarianism is dumbass, apparently you don't if you're endorsing it. |
Mephistopheles
07.26.16 | Not according to your comment and you also have no way of knowing me. You sure love your straw man |
rufinthefury
07.26.16 | then defend your shitty philosophy. |
Mephistopheles
07.26.16 | It's not my philosophy. I commented that your view is inaccurate and left a wiki article that can give you a general idea of what it is and it's many branches without having to waste my time. This will be pointless and seeing your responses you don't seem like the brightest of lads so I'll be off. If you are interested you have the entire internet at your reach, use it. |
rufinthefury
07.26.16 | Let me tell you just a couple of secrets:
any time a market is unregulated it becomes monopolized. every single time WITHOUT fail.
corporations are just as untrustworthy as big government if not worse. |
rufinthefury
07.26.16 | Libertarians are also, without fail, extremely privileged. They'll bitch about the fucking US Postal Service and Social Security and how government contracts are the devil, all while ignoring a shitton of things they take for granted like paved roads, safe food, clean water, public education, and so on. it's laughable. the whole philosophy is laughable. Especially their love of the gold standard, now that is a hoot. |
Knave
07.26.16 | The problem with those that aren't voting Trump is that they're generally more sensitive than those who are which makes the arguments super easy. |
guitarded_chuck
07.26.16 | your premise is false and your assertion makes no sense
try again |
bakkermaarten007
07.26.16 | "I mean you're acting like a massive twat and even fucking prophesying on the internet of a threat you still can't back up with factual evidence.
Then you get mad when people ridicule you. I'm not using autist as an insult here (never did, I have been diagnosed with Aspergers), but Jesus man you're acting really autistic rn"
You didn't just ridicule me, you called for my death. And here there are again insults. Just shut it if you have nothing valuable to add, which is crystal clear. |
bakkermaarten007
07.26.16 | Meanwhile: a priest whose throat has been sliced. One other victim fighting for his/her life after being helld hostage in a Church.
No report on the identity or motive of the perpetrators.But I'll place my bet. |
zakalwe
07.26.16 | Odds on |
smaugman
07.26.16 | it was lol |
Cryptkeeper
07.26.16 | 'you called for my death'
If you can't read the irony in kys you really are being too autistic to continue conversation with. |
bakkermaarten007
07.26.16 | "If you can't read the irony in kys you really are being too autistic to continue conversation with.
"
Oh boy, you just can't stop it do you... Every sentence, you need to insult. |
Snake.
07.26.16 | bakker please just fuck off forever |
Cryptkeeper
07.26.16 | I'm just waiting for mods to get pissed of enough |
smaugman
07.26.16 | dont mind them bakker |
zakalwe
07.26.16 | Draw a cartoon of Mohammed and be condemned to an eternity in hell. Murder a priest and its back slaps all round.
I sense talking to these people followed by a good old fashioned hug will sort 'em right out. |
smaugman
07.26.16 | yea!! fight racists and xenophobes!! support and understand the peaceful muslims! |
zakalwe
07.26.16 | Can't we just bake bread and jam Landslide by Fleetwood Mac? |
SgtShock
07.26.16 | I like the super nasally version by Smashing Pumpkins |
Typhoon24
07.26.16 | why'd yall have to scare away lambs |
SgtShock
07.26.16 | He's in a better place now. |
Evreaia
07.26.16 | "Meanwhile: a priest whose throat has been sliced."
Daesh claimed it, surprise! |
BlacKapes
07.26.16 | hey guys just want to say lambs is smarter and all around better than you |
bakkermaarten007
07.27.16 | You're partly right. What's up with that username? |
iloveyouall
07.27.16 | he agrees with your classification of those of african lineage/descent as "niggers", "apes" and "subhumans". |
iloveyouall
07.27.16 | wait whoops, that was an aggressive false-factoid ad hominem strawman, i apologise! |
iloveyouall
07.27.16 | how deplorable! |
bakkermaarten007
07.27.16 | That was not directed at me? Mods should change his username. I can't stand it when people throw around the word 'offensive' but his username kinda is. |
iloveyouall
07.27.16 | woah, fuck you with that strawman. you're a disgusting apologist naziman! |
Cryptkeeper
07.27.16 | Lmao |
BlacKapes
07.31.16 | would rather mylittlepenis as my username again but it was too offensive |
Cyberduck
08.09.16 | Let's ban almost a quarter of world population from entering our countries because they're "potential terrorists", how could that not be a great idea? |
Conmaniac
08.09.16 | i agree but whyd u bump this thread dude |
zakalwe
08.09.16 | Enter, stay, multiply, change the system, cause friction.
It does happen, it will happen. |
Cyberduck
08.09.16 | I was a bit stunned how long LambsBread got that flame debate running, just pointing towards the obvious here. |
Sinternet
08.09.16 | please dont bump this thread |
FullOfSounds
08.09.16 | It's a chore to get to the bottom of the comments that's how many there are, fuck |
Knave
08.09.16 | @Cyberduck ==> it's not about terrorism it's about culture. If a society is over 50% Muslims it is very unlikely that radical Islamists backed by secular Muslims will not try to Islamize the state. This religious demographic doesn't exist for longer than 50 years without the Islamification of the state. Turkey is experiencing this presently. France is just warming up to that moment where they receive that "special status." It is an ideology that rarely accepts anything but religious homogeneity. You know that famous quote by Martin Luther King where it says "we can't tolerate intolerance?" Islam is an example what he was talking about. You may know a few Muslims who are in the US, but the only way they were ever able to get here in the first place was because of their affluence. By the way, Trump's official stance is to ban immigration from countries with a known history of terrorism. Yes, this includes France and Germany, because France and Germany fucked up. How? Because they let in so many working class Muslims that there are actual political movements to make Sharia the law of the land, and there are "no-go" zones in many cities. Not to mention they are reproducing like bunnies and will quickly displace the secular/Christian population. Refugees also bring rape and crime and terrorism. I don't want that here. The responsibility of the US government isn't to be the world's bandaid. It's meant to protect the American people. I'd rather keep them all out, because the negatives of their import far outweighs the benefits. |
Cyberduck
08.09.16 | I would argue it's more about economical and social conditions leading to extremist ideology than vice versa, very important to look at cause and effect. My post was also more a response to LambsBreads anti-muslim rhetoric than about Trump himself, who's about to derail himself anyway. Regarding Erodgan, I haven't seen much evidence of him being about to bring something like Sharia law to Turkey, but rather a typical dictatorship in the style of Putin, while Germany has been more affected by shooting rampages than "terrorism" recently, in which I don't really see that much of a difference tbh. When it comes to radical Islamism, there are typically conditions like low social status and/or mental disorders involved, especially with those, who're coming as foreign fighters. Then there's the issue of financial backing, coming primarily from the super rich oil states in the middle east, and going to the most militant and potent of the groups for the sake of some kind of political interest. That appears as the most important factor to me, since the oil money first contributes to breeding ruthless militias, and second is hindering social and political progress in countries like Saudi Arabia, Iran, etc., because of the massive wealth concentration in the hands of very few, who then have the ressources to suppress any opposition and if necessary keep the population quiet with material benefits, backed by all major powers around the globe for obvious reasons. What shouldn't be forgotten is, that just because terrorism usually involves some islamic background, there are very similar kinds of violence in countries without functional law enforcement and poor economic conditions simply coming in forms of excessive criminality or war crimes, yet not called out as "terroristic" despite the very same results. Just look at Assad's bombing, the actions of the Russian FSB or the Mexican drug cartel and you will find the same ruthless people there. |
doomjitsu
08.09.16 | ALL I EVER WANTED WAS TO PICK APART THE DAY
PUT THE PIECES BACK TOGETHER MY WAY |
doomjitsu
08.09.16 | COME ON GUYS
SING WITH ME |
Typhoon24
08.09.16 | no point in really talking about it because the ban will never happen even if trump wins and nominates satan to the supreme court.
it’s a tough issue because
1. you can’t ever criticize islam nowadays without being labeled a muslim-hater (it’s like saying communism sucks vs discriminating against people who identify as communist)
2. islam is the only major religion that has crazy verses that over 95% of muslims still think is the word of god
3. muslims are the only hope for islam. they need to sit down and actively speak out against any verse calling for religious violence and barbarism.
growing up in a muslim community, whenever i asked about the dangerous verses, the priest would be like “this is only applicable in a limited context.” that's fuckin DANGEROUS. well if you’re being bombed every day of the week in the desert somewhere, I think it’s not hard to get the verse to apply. the problem is when an attack happens, the rest of muslims can only call terrorists bad people without criticizing the verse that at least IN PART influenced his actions.
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Cyberduck
08.09.16 | Not that it takes a genius, but like said in my previous post, I see the political Islam mainly as a product of certain living conditions. Take away the need for societal progress with easy money from major resource exports, add some kind of military power, either through foreign "protectors" or nuclear assets, and you will get exceptionally totalitarian hierarchies like in the middle east or Russia. There are no rules for the top of the food chain there, just acting like the psychopaths they mostly are. |
NastyCrab
08.09.16 | Stop bumping this thread |
Conmaniac
08.09.16 | [2] |
Asdfp277
08.09.16 | trump supporters are stupid, bottom line |
bakkermaarten007
08.09.16 | "Enter, stay, multiply, change the system, cause friction.
It does happen, it will happen."
Exactly.We (Europe and the West) live in Islam's 'Dar al-harb', meaning 'house of war'. Peace can only follow (according to the quran ofc) after it has been converted entirely. After that, it is part of the 'Dar al-Islam'
Well, what do you know: they do want peace! Hurray
(after total imperialism, but peace) |
Torontonian
02.20.24 | bump. here we are 8 years later. And this is still relevant! who would have thought. lol. The absurdity of american politicss. |
bellovddd
02.20.24 | NO ARGUEMENTS PLEASE |
Sinternet
02.20.24 | i forgot bakker was a user lol that guy was something
i would like to retract my comments saying clinton was fine
and tbh most of my comments in this thread
being a terminally online 18 year old is a wild ride |
Colton
02.20.24 | how are we gonna trump them |
ArsMoriendi
02.20.24 | I can't believe I thought Jill Stein was okay |
Sinternet
02.20.24 | actually no i start spitting fax later dw i was based as fuck back then |
pizzamachine
02.20.24 | I am Canadian |
budgie
02.20.24 | 2016 felt like a minute ago |
pizzamachine
02.20.24 | Facts |
Dewinged
02.20.24 | We just need the sputitution and we would have come full circle. |
Sinternet
02.20.24 | what a wild year it was |
Wildcardbitchesss
02.20.24 | Can’t wait to vote for the lesser of two evils in the most important election in my lifetime for the third time |
Colton
02.20.24 | voting is pointless tbh |
bellovddd
02.20.24 | OH MY |
Torontonian
02.20.24 | Can’t wait to vote for the lesser of two evils in the most important election in my lifetime for the third time
lol
I can't believe I thought Jill Stein was okay
time flies, eh?
we went from being uninformed 16 yo's to 24 yo's |
ConcubinaryCode
02.20.24 | I voted Gary Johnson 😞 my politics still probably aren't that great but I like to think I learned. The silver lining to trumps presidency was highlighting how stuff shouldn't work I guess. |
Jasdevi087
02.20.24 | hope it also highlighted not to vote for Gary Johnson |
Wildcardbitchesss
02.20.24 | Can I go back to being uninformed |
FowlKrietzsche
02.20.24 | We love having the two oldest candidates to ever run in an election! Guess who is in second place? The candidates of last election! |
SomeCallMeTim
02.20.24 | how has nobody in this thread mentioned my boy Vermin Supreme |
Sevengill
02.20.24 | what's Ralph Nader up to these days |
Wildcardbitchesss
02.20.24 | Damn I thought he was just some dumbass libertarian but reading a little the guy sounds like he’s an anarchist if anything |
Koris
02.20.24 | @SomeCallMeTim: Free ponies for everyone! |
ConcubinaryCode
02.20.24 | Obv, just was niave back then. |
MillionDead
02.20.24 | Yeah, the fact that Trump is on his way back to be the GOP nominee is just absurd. Throw the whole system away fr. |
AlexKzillion
02.20.24 | no way i said anything dumb in this...
"I'm gonna vote for Kanye in 2020 what about you guys?"
oh |
budgie
02.20.24 | hahahahahaha you turkey |
chemicalmarriage
02.20.24 | Trump selling them gold sneakers actin like he didnt rape nobody |
Wildcardbitchesss
02.20.24 | they’re both complete clown shows, it is very funny that lil Ron and Nikki Haley ever thought they had a chance tho |
XyphDryne
02.20.24 | I will never forget the interview with Jonathan Swan. I thought that this was the defining moment, the eye opener. Yet, here we go again O_O |
Ryus
02.20.24 | voting trump again |
chemicalmarriage
02.20.24 | Lmao |