SitruK6: does accessible music have lower artistic value?

GhettoHmbrglr 06.07.16	ya
zakalwe 06.07.16	I'd bet my bottom dollar you're a yank.
Sinternet 06.07.16	no that's pretty dumb
TVC15 06.07.16	I mean it sort if varies by artists and this topic really borderlines on the one about "selling out". I mean, Mr. Bungle's best album is California and yet it's a well known fact that it's also their most accessible record. Metallica's Black Album is cinsidered both their most accessible record and is widely considered them selling out, yet it still heavily maintains their roots in thrash metal; Megadeth did the same thing on Countdown to Extinction yet they never caught flack for it because they're Megadeth despite that one contains almost no thrash influences unlike The Black Album. I'm just rambling here because "accessible" is as poorly defined as "selling out" or "overrated" because the definitions of these vary so much per person
brainmelter 06.07.16	no way dude
Ryus 06.07.16	no
Cygnatti 06.07.16	no
Flugmorph 06.07.16	no that's pretty dumb [2]
Sevengill 06.07.16	not necessarily, but I find songs that are catchy often wear out quickly. things that take a while to grow tend to have longer shelf lives.
LotusFlower 06.07.16	i just like music tbh
Ryus 06.07.16	nah there's some catchy shit that i listen to constantly. some of my most listened-to songs are super catchy
Sevengill 06.07.16	also, The Great Mass is a killer album. fvck yeah.
SitruK6 06.07.16	yeah it's a great album, i'm gonna get Communion next
AnimalsAsSummit 06.07.16	No, but I would say that the corporate shit that lacks anything genuine is usually stuff that's trying to be accessible
NLD 06.07.16	no that's pretty dumb [3]
Valkyrion 06.07.16	not necessarily
onionbubs 06.07.16	no that's pretty dumb [4] why? weezers blue album is great and its hella accessible
LotusFlower 06.07.16	people still think because a song has complex time sigs and polyrhythms that its somehow better than a pop song that knows how to keep energy consistent.
TheSpaceMan 06.07.16	nope
SitruK6 06.07.16	complex music doesn't have to feature weird time sigs and polyrhythms.
TheSpaceMan 06.07.16	check Odessey and Oracle
danielcardoso 06.07.16	"weezers blue album is great and its hella accessible" overrated af.
TVC15 06.07.16	Well, technically, all pop music is accessible since it literally aims to appeal to the masses
worthlessscab 06.07.16	most of the time it's watered down version of the real deal so ya
TVC15 06.07.16	OneRepublic did sell out hard on that new song idgaf if it was already written and handed to them to perform it
Cryptkeeper 06.07.16	Easily accessible often means a lack of depth so for me, yeah
laughingman22 06.07.16	making music accessible and catchy music takes a large amount of skill and effort. Anyone with a microphone can make 'deep experimental music' but that's not to say either one is inherently good or bad
Idleness 06.07.16	Cryptkeeper 06.07.16 [Report this Post] Easily accessible often means a lack of depth so for me, yeah 5.0 classic Behemoth The Satanist Black Sabbath Paranoid Black Sabbath Master of Reality Cal Chuchesta The New CALassic Children of Bodom Hate Crew Deathroll Death The Sound of Perseverance Disturbed The Sickness Electric Wizard Dopethrone In Flames The Jester Race In Flames Clayman Jay-Z Reasonable Doubt Judas Priest Painkiller Kendrick Lamar Section.80 King Crimson In the Court of the Crimson King La Dispute Vancouver Led Zeppelin Physical Graffiti Lich King Do-Over Megadeth Rust in Peace Megadeth Peace Sells... but Who's Buying? Megadeth So Far, So Good... So What! Metallica ...And Justice for All Nas Illmatic Neutral Bling Hotel In My G4 Over Da Sea AOTY any year 6/5 O-Zone Mai Ai Hee (Dragostea Din Tei) EP Pantera Cowboys from Hell Slayer Reign in Blood Sodom M-16 Tool Aenima Vektor Outer Isolation Vektor Terminal Redux
Idleness 06.07.16	arent those like a bunch of the most accessible and well known rock albums of all time i think the Slayer brand and Megadeth are worth like tens of millions lmao
hal1ax 06.07.16	Lol
worthlessscab 06.07.16	yea the 4 chords pop structure is real hard to conjure up
TVC15 06.07.16	Slayer = accessible. I'm genuinely confounded by this statement
Idleness 06.07.16	they are you fucking dweeb they are like 30 year old dadrock everyone and their mom has heard of slayer people need to stop pretending metal is edgy
Cryptkeeper 06.07.16	Slayer = accessible. I'm genuinely confounded by this statement [2]
worthlessscab 06.07.16	it's taking the spotlight off of power electronics (
Idleness 06.07.16	"four of the band's studio albums have received gold certification in the United States. The band has received five Grammy nominations"
Cryptkeeper 06.07.16	'they are you fucking dweeb they are like 30 year old dadrock everyone and their mom has heard of slayer people need to stop pretending metal is edgy' Pls go back to /mu
worthlessscab 06.07.16	doesn't mean your average joe is gonna be blasting reign in blood
Mystletainn 06.07.16	there's no such thing as inaccessible music pls
worthlessscab 06.07.16	technically
Idleness 06.07.16	>listens to the big 4 >"yeah mainstream music has a lack of depth hur"
TVC15 06.07.16	"they are you fucking dweeb they are like 30 year old dadrock everyone and their mom has heard of slayer people need to stop pretending metal is edgy" No, they're washed up and past their prime and their minuscule fan base in this age still supports them, thus they keep making records. Also Ghost (SWE) was nominated for a Grammy and I don't think they're the most "accessible" out there. Also if Slayer is accessible, then Sepultura is accessible. Just sayin
Idleness 06.07.16	im not saying theres anything wrong with your taste but dont act like its superior lol
Idleness 06.07.16	what do think the word miniscule means last time i checked they still play arenas and headline festivals
SitruK6 06.07.16	slayer is definitely past their prime, but saying they have a minuscule fan base is wrong
ArsMoriendi 06.07.16	Accessible usually just means "poppy" or more "easy on the ears" and by no means does it means it's worse when it comes to artistic value.
Cryptkeeper 06.07.16	Are you fighting iloveyouall and torts for worst Sput user or what?
Idleness 06.07.16	Also if Slayer is accessible, then Sepultura is accessible also if x is y, then unrelated thing with no backing argument is y. just saying xD
TVC15 06.07.16	If you're talking to me in that first one then I'm not trying to imply that my taste is more superior but I do apologize if I came across like that. And I take that statement back about Slayer having a "miniscule" fan base, I genuinely didn't know they still have huge shows
AlexKzillion 06.07.16	Slayer has like the second biggest fan base in metal besides like Metallica, and Slayer fans are generally much more loyal then Metallica fans so lol.
TVC15 06.07.16	Slayer and Sepultura both do thrash metal so I was comparing them in that respect don't throw up a "XD" damn I'm just having a civil argument here
Idleness 06.07.16	@lp nah i meant crypts first comment
Idleness 06.07.16	i mean i would argue that accessibility isnt innate and is determined by how something is recieved, and in that regard slayer are very accessible as they have become a household name. yelling and guitars when looking at comparatively to joni mitchell or something, is probably less accessible, but then anything could be inaccessible comparatively.
ArsMoriendi 06.07.16	@Cryptkeeper: Idleness is just Spooky/SlipNSlide/SillyRabbit etc. in other words he's harmless compared to torts and iloveyouall, and mostly just argues things to be devil's advocate.
TVC15 06.07.16	Ah that makes a lot of sense Idle. Like I said in my first comment in this thread, the definition of "accessible" greatly varies per person and being that's how you define it, then Slayer IS an accessible band in that respect
Idleness 06.07.16	so regardless of genre, sepultura would be less accessible on what i would call a scale rather than "yes/no" situation as compared to slayer imo. but overall its really a petty argument and the idea of accessibility is only ever used as an personal ego-booster and not really expanded on in any interesting way.
AlexKzillion 06.07.16	"does accessible music have lower artistic value?" Does Jane Doe have more artistic value than Abbey Road? Define artistic value.
TVC15 06.07.16	Yeah man, the argument of accessibility is most commonly used by hipsters who think they have the best taste in the world so I never take that seriously whenever I'm in such a situation. Also, sorry Alex but that "then" is getting on my inner grammar nazi's nerve
AlexKzillion 06.07.16	I got you lp
LotusFlower 06.07.16	this is why people hate metalheads.
Keyblade 06.07.16	slip on point as usual
BenThatsMyJamin 06.07.16	Melody and rhythm are probably the two main components of music. If an artist rejects melody completely to preserve some kind of artistic integrity then they are missing out on one of the most important aspects of music itself. Classical is generally very accessible and melodic yet probably has the highest artistic value of any genre.
TheBarber 06.07.16	accessible=that one may project into the easiest or commonly? artistic value=ethics in said artist and thus work of art/are you like a 15 year old art student from shithole creek?
oltnabrick 06.07.16	No way brother
EatingItchyButthole 06.07.16	im writting a thesis on this issue actuallly
Tyler. 06.07.16	Everything going on here needs to stop tbh
Calc 06.07.16	does subjectiveness music have lower subjectiveness
runaways 06.08.16	Definitely not, anyone who thinks so is ridiculously close minded
TheSpirit 06.08.16	"Also if Slayer is accessible, then Sepultura is accessible. Just sayin" What a terrible argument, sepultura has gold and platinum certifications all over the world, they are SUPER accessible.
Aftertheascension 06.08.16	It depends completely on the genre, artist, time period. Everything. In the case of making a stupid comparison like Bieber vs. Darkthrone, of course Bieber is lower quality but they can't be compared.
tempest-- 06.08.16	OF COURSE bieber is lower quality there's definitely not people out there who would think Bieber is better than Darkthrone that's just such a ridiculous opinion
LotusFlower 06.08.16	i havent listened to darkthrone but for the sake of contrarianship I think Bieber is better than Darkthrone.
TVC15 06.08.16	Tbh Love Yourself>>>Transilvanian Hunger
Idleness 06.08.16	i read darkthone as deftones and thought "wtf bieber is clearly better" but yeah darkthrone>bieber>deftones by almost any standard for sure
Cygnatti 06.08.16	JB's love yourself is the most okay song in the universe. 2.75/5
iloveyouall 06.08.16	company >>>> love yourself
Cygnatti 06.08.16	company is the most sleep-inducing song in the universe tbh. 2.25/5 literally every other single on that album >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> those two.
iloveyouall 06.08.16	your previous opinion >>> that opinion resolve that!
Keyblade 06.08.16	company is amazing
Cygnatti 06.08.16	i'll show u is underrated af why tho?
iloveyouall 06.08.16	where are u now is jb's best song tbh
Calc 06.08.16	"OF COURSE bieber is lower quality" funny thing is you're in the minority with this opinion.
tempest-- 06.08.16	i was quoting ascension sarcastically bro
Calc 06.08.16	that you were, I'm ashamed.
Aftertheascension 06.08.16	"there's definitely not people out there who would think Bieber is better than Darkthrone that's just such a ridiculous opinion " Not only does Darkthrone have higher mean ratings, and overall better reception, darkthrone is technically superior and is of a much higher quality standard than bieber dreams of.
ArsMoriendi 06.08.16	Forget comparing apples to oranges, we're comparing apples to wind turbines at this point.
Aftertheascension 06.08.16	I mentioned that in my original post, but people enjoy reading partial posts on sput.
Masochist 06.08.16	When it comes to music, I believe there's this stigma attached to the word "accessible," just like the phrase "entry-level," wherein if it can be accepted by a large amount of people, it must be lacking in depth or artistic meaning...or worse yet, it must have been manufactured to be enjoyed by a large amount of people. And while the latter is sometimes true, it can't be blindly applied to all wide-reaching music. Look at Pink Floyd. Two of their albums, 'Dark Side of the Moon' and 'The Wall', are among the top 20 best selling albums of all time across all genres, yet they are well respected for the amount of talent on display. You cannot say they are not accessible, but you also may have a hard time presenting a case against the high artistic value of their music. Nas, Jeff Buckley, A Tribe Called Quest, Metallica, Led Zeppelin, Eminem, The Beach Boys...at one point or another, these musicians were considered pioneers in their crafts, enjoyed not only for their easily-digested music, but also how far forward they pushed their genres, and much influence their music had over the entire musical landscape. (Actually, I think The Beach Boys alone disprove this entire notion).
Masochist 06.08.16	Rereading my comment...I think it can be boiled down to: "Accessible music doesn't INHERENTLY have low artistic value."
p4p 06.09.16	well Bieber had sold 40 million records i mean i prefer Darkthrone over bieber but idk about the rest of the world
Aftertheascension 06.09.16	"well Bieber had sold 40 million records i mean i prefer Darkthrone over bieber but idk about the rest of the world" Record sales mean jack shit when musical quality is in question.
p4p 06.09.16	what are you like a music connoisseur or somethin
Sevengill 06.09.16	"Thus far I too should agree with the many, that the excellence of music is to be measured by pleasure. But the pleasure must not be that of chance persons; the fairest music is that which delights the best and best educated, and especially that which delights the one man who is pre-eminent in virtue and education. And therefore the judges must be men of character, for they will require both wisdom and courage." - Plato, "Laws"
NLD 06.09.16	ye but plato was a fukboi who didn't listen to chief keef
torts 06.09.16	I'd say the maximum artistic value would be a perfect balance of innovation and true creativity, and how many people the art can really touch
iloveyouall 06.09.16	your answer to this question is directly proportional to how much of a wanker you are.
Asdfp277 06.09.16	lmao
torts 06.09.16	am I a wanker sach
iloveyouall 06.09.16	nah, you're aight. if you want i could classify everyone into wankers and non-wankers
torts 06.09.16	do it, make a very in depth list have there be equations and shit
iloveyouall 06.09.16	okay, on it.
Sevengill 06.09.16	this oughtta be good
NLD 06.09.16	i'm ready to find out if i'm the only wanker/limpdick hybrid here or if there are more of my kind
AlexKzillion 06.09.16	"I'd say the maximum artistic value would be a perfect balance of innovation and true creativity, and how many people the art can really touch" Kanye West
Sevengill 06.09.16	he touched me against my will with his art
Trebor. 06.09.16	overly accessible music tends to have a lower ceiling for me, and tends to have less lasting value
torts 06.09.16	honestly I'd place yeezus and mbdtf at the top when it comes yo that mindset
iloveyouall 06.09.16	okay, for those interested, i'm going to take the data from this list, as well as several other ~divisive~ lists, sorting the responses into affirmative and negative groups, and then by analysing these responses relative to the blandest user of all time (i.e. a user who is smack bang in-between wanker and softcock: CL0VER), i will rank the users according to their wank factor (using the markov chain monte carlo method for associative statistical comparison). list coming soon.
Asdfp277 06.09.16	bjork is accessible, and she's the best artist in the story of mankind, sooooo (the mantle is v. accessible too)
Sevengill 06.09.16	joe schmo would turn off The Mantle two minutes into Pale Companion
AlexKzillion 06.09.16	Lol
Asdfp277 06.09.16	lol
Asdfp277 06.09.16	well, i guess we haven't determined what even constitutes "accessible" i guess :< it's hard to make any meaningful argument about it w/o knowing what it is, i took it like it's easy to get into, not whether it's boring/slow/etc...
Sevengill 06.09.16	it even changes in the same person. like, the first time I heard Ahab I was like, this is boring as fuck. now I jam Call of the Wretched Sea at least once every couple weeks.
Asdfp277 06.09.16	yeah, with the developing of one's taste in music, the reference as for what constitutes "accessible" changes too, i guess that combined with the rest already places a "no" as an answer to sitruK6's question?
swipenet 06.09.16	Does it matter? Rate as you please.
SitruK6 06.10.16	It really wasn't a question that I needed an answer for.. i just wanted to hear more opinions.
Deathconscious 06.24.16	recs for sitru because the shoutbox was being dumb. Bohren & der Club of Gore - Sunset Mission. noir jazz/ambient (sometimes called "doomjazz"). Causa Sui - Summer Sessions Vol. 1. super cool jam/stoner rock, perfect for summer. Bark Psychosis - Hex. i believe this is one of the first bands to get the "post rock" tag. really beautiful/chill stuff. this is four, i know, but just in case youre in the mood for some straightforward, raw black metal, i just found this band: Ibex Throne - Ibex Throne