Aftertheascension: Minimum Wage

Aftertheascension 04.21.16	money monaeeyeyey. moneyayayayayeyeyey.
Piglet 04.21.16	yeaaaaah pretty much don't know what to think about the issue // arguments both sides and haven't parsed through them enough. There's probably a good balance somewhere
Sinternet 04.21.16	If your wage can't meet the living wage in your area then there is a massive problem. In the UK we've been holding off increasing the minimum wage for ages, whilst costs of living soar, especially in London. It doesn't matter if you work a low-skill job such as shop assistant or fast food worker, you are contributing to the economy and deserve to be paid enough to live on. There is the idea of universal income, which would be an ok idea, but at some point there has to be a cut-off for it, as some people just wouldn't need it.
chemicalmarriage 04.21.16	Everything will continue to get more expensive and eventually it won't matter
smaugman 04.21.16	people should earn a livable wage for any work done. however, you should be paid based on the work you actually do, and how important it is to society. basic income is a terrible idea tbh
Sinternet 04.21.16	Who decides what work is most important to society? All work is important, without scientists we wouldn't know about germs, without cleaners we would have lots of germs around us. Every job has value in a functioning society and as such there shouldnt be massive disparities between the top 1% and the lowest 50%. Why do you think universal income is a bad idea? I can think of some reasons but i want to hear yours.
smaugman 04.21.16	first of all, it's obvious some jobs are more important than others. there's no way going around that. second, basic income is stupid because people need to be able to take care of them selves, and not be fed by the government. the money that would be supplied to everyone would be a crazy huge amount. where would that money come from? im all for that the rich need to be taxed more, but holding them entirely responsible for the poor being poor is unjust. there are a lot of awful people out there, and just handing them free money would be stupid. it would be unfair to the ones who actually need it, like cripples and jobless.
porcupinetheater 04.21.16	"A counter argument is often that minimum wage is meant for teenagers or the elderly to work low skill jobs to have spending money." Best fantasy novel since Tolkien. Anyone who thinks this nonsense is the way the minimum wage law actually functions on a large scale has spent the better part of their life actively ignoring the world at large.
smaugman 04.21.16	hahahhaha maximum wage!!!
smaugman 04.21.16	i hope you never vote or participate in politics
smaugman 04.21.16	so, thinking a maximum wage wage is retarded = conservative 2) of course a liberal links iq to political stances, gj. 3) im 131 years old and my iq is 130 ;))))))))))))))))))))))))
smaugman 04.21.16	wow you're stupid af
Aftertheascension 04.21.16	"who would've guessed that a guy who listens exclusively to shithouse guitar music was a conservative?" what the fuck does this have to do with the discussion?
Cryptkeeper 04.21.16	Just do like the rest of the world and make minimum wage livable how is this still an issue
Cryptkeeper 04.21.16	'basic income is stupid because people need to be able to take care of them selves, and not be fed by the government.' 'hahahhaha maximum wage!!!' Is this bait or are you just handicapped?
DamnVanne 04.21.16	I'd rather construct rhymes on a minimum page
smaugman 04.21.16	you are really, really toxic
DinosaurJones 04.21.16	Well, it certainly didn't take long for this to go to shit. Core tenets of life: 1. Never discuss politics. 2. Never discuss religion.
smaugman 04.21.16	agreed. for some reason, sputnikers always begin to discuss politics/religion
Keyblade 04.21.16	"first of all, it's obvious some jobs are more important than others. there's no way going around that" yea maybe doctors and engineers etc are more important than other jobs, but for the rest of us corporate plebs, there's not much in it. why is pretending to punch in numbers in an office apparently more important than working security or retail?
smaugman 04.21.16	i dont think you understand economists' role in today's society. they have a much, much larger capability to produce money than say lumbers, cleaners, fishers etc. of course we do need people in primary, secondary and tertiary industries. it might make sense that a farmer make more money than an economic because they produce food which we need every day. i agree. it can be hard to actually label an important job and a not important one. we need most occupations. but some jobs are actually more important than others
Cimnele 04.21.16	economic growth is total shit if you don't use some of it to give the people lowest on the totem pole dignity and a buffer zone where they don't just fuckin die if one bill too many arrives
Aftertheascension 04.21.16	well this is the last time I discuss politics on sputnik
SCREAM! 04.21.16	"yea maybe doctors and engineers etc are more important than other jobs, but for the rest of us corporate plebs, there's not much in it. why is pretending to punch in numbers in an office apparently more important than working security or retail?" Even if you don't believe it's more important, it does require longer training and more skill than retail which is the first job everyone has as a teenager. Makes sense you'd get paid more for a job you spent 4 years in school training for than one you can get at 16 while still in HS. That being said, the minimum wage should be enough to cover living expenses (which is some part of the US doesn't seem to be the case). I mean: "Even if you don't go to college, you could go to trade school to do a skilled job and go into the workforce. I feel like there's too many options to take advantage of instead of just blindly whining about a reasonable wage." is such a middle class privileged way of thinking. Do you like going to a restaurant for lunch on a weekday? By your logic, with kids in schools adults working "real jobs" there would no longer be any stores open during weekdays since minimum wage jobs are for students who can only work evening and weekends while they're not at school.
SCREAM! 04.21.16	"well this is the last time I discuss politics on sputnik" Maybe next time actually think about your points and don't be such an idiot :) oh wait this is an ascencion thread
Keyblade 04.21.16	yea man i agree, im just contesting the idea that some jobs are more important
torts 04.21.16	minimum wage should not be a means of living, end of story
Keyblade 04.21.16	as if some ppl have a choice, foh
SCREAM! 04.21.16	"yea man i agree, im just contesting the idea that some jobs are more important" Ahh alright then we're good. I thought you were saying that since they aren't necessarily "more important" they didn't deserve to be paid differently.
torts 04.21.16	"as if some ppl have a choice, foh" yea, people straight out of high school may not, but other than that one instance, you are most likely a bum if you don't
Relinquished 04.21.16	yea very black n white torts
SCREAM! 04.21.16	torts and ascension are prob bff's irl
Keyblade 04.21.16	tfw ur more of a 15 y/o suburban kid than ascension itt. hold this L torts
torts 04.21.16	lmao ok so knowing the downsides of raising minimum wages makes me a 15 year old suburban kid yea get completely fucked
Keyblade 04.21.16	ur still a 15 y/o suburban kid tho
SCREAM! 04.21.16	"yea, people straight out of high school may not, but other than that one instance, you are most likely a bum if you don't" This is honestly the definition of 15 y/o surburban kid
zaruyache 04.21.16	the people who argue #2 are out of touch with reality. Surprise!
Funeralopolis 04.21.16	Every grocery store I've worked in the vast majority of staff are 20+ years old all working for near minimum wage, it isn't only 15 year old kids.
KeithStone582 04.21.16	There's been a real lack of mentioning the cost raising the minimum wage will have on businesses.
smaugman 04.21.16	that's also true. $15 seems to be out of the question for most businesses. all the shitmarts can however. their CEOs make a shit ton of money anyway
JWT155 04.21.16	There's also the hypothetical that if everyone in the world had the same exact intelligence and skillset that a certain majority would still be needed to work lesser occupations (cashier, janitor, server, garbageman) in order to keep a modern society functioning; should they be paid less even though they are providing essential work to form part of the cornerstone of a modern society?
Cryptkeeper 04.21.16	Nah dude, daddy paid me through college and therefore I should get more money
Sinternet 04.21.16	Small businesses directly benefit from raising the minimum wage. Higher wages result in increased productivity and performance and allow more people to have disposable income to help small businesses flourish.
zaruyache 04.21.16	statistically doesn't raising the minimum wage have a general positive impact on the economy tho
Cimnele 04.21.16	stats are nothing in the face of conservative disdain for service industries
KeithStone582 04.21.16	"Small businesses directly benefit from raising the minimum wage. Higher wages result in increased productivity and performance and allow more people to have disposable income to help small businesses flourish." There is no proof that this is true in any way. Even if having a higher wage increased productivity, the requested federal minimum wage increase usually calls for practically doubling it, which would mean that workers would need to be twice as productive to warrant the raise.
SCREAM! 04.21.16	"Nah dude, daddy paid me through college and therefore I should get more money" Even if everyone who went to college was there because their parents paid for them (which is such a stupid assumption, I can hardly believe I'm even responding to you), there is still an opportunity cost to higher education. Even if the schooling itself cost you 0$ (lol), that's 4 years of your life where rather than working full time and making money, you choose to train and learn new skills that you can apply to a job later. So why the hell shouldn't you receive more later when you can use these skills that you spent years learning?
Relinquished 04.21.16	cuz society is fucked and there are always other factors that influence other factors that so on and so on
SCREAM! 04.21.16	I get that but I'm talking generally as a response to that idiotic quote
JWT155 04.21.16	Bro, this issue is black and white, didn't you know?!
Trebor. 04.21.16	Everyone at my shitty job tries to go to college too but they all drop out because they can't afford it and don't have the time either and it's sad
Maniac! 04.21.16	"Small businesses directly benefit from raising the minimum wage. Higher wages result in increased productivity and performance and allow more people to have disposable income to help small businesses flourish." Says someone who knows nothing about small businesses.
Trebor. 04.21.16	idk from what I know, small businesses in my area can't afford to be paying employees jack shit My friend's family owns a shop and they don't even have employees outside of the family cuz they can't afford that shit It's naive to think small businesses aren't going to be fucked at least at first when you raise the minimum wage The garbage corporation I work for on the other hand could definitely afford to pay us 15 an hour
torts 04.21.16	yea that is the biggest bullshit statement ever lmao Its not just "small businesses" persay that are affected, its literally most/every business that isn't a international/worldwide chain, and even then it can still be detrimental to those
Maniac! 04.21.16	Lobbying for local increases to min wage is more effective anyway. 15/h in DC is not the same as 15/h in bumfuck WV
KeithStone582 04.21.16	From what I have read, Mcdonald's labor costs amount to at least 20 percent of each store's spending. There has to be some expectation that this will have a negative affect on the business in some way.
DinosaurJones 04.21.16	That's true. $15/hr will get you a lot further in some areas than in someplace like NYC where the cost of living is asinine.
SCREAM! 04.21.16	"Lobbying for local increases to min wage is more effective anyway. 15/h in DC is not the same as 15/h in bumfuck WV" 123
Cryptkeeper 04.21.16	'So why the hell shouldn't you receive more later when you can use these skills that you spent years learning?' Because the American education system is anything but meritocratic.
TheSonomaDude 04.21.16	silly liberals, actually caring about others and not being racist and all xD xD what a bunch of pansies! bet they never even played football in high school hahahaha losers
barcafan21 04.21.16	someone has to do the jobs that are going to be paid minimum wage, it should definitely be raised. the current minimum wage in a lot of states is ridiculous it does need to be done incrementally though, if it went straight to $15 it would be chaos. bernie's plan has it at $15 by 2020 i believe
Calc 04.21.16	i remember minimun wage....ahhh..
TheSonomaDude 04.21.16	I won't act like I'm an expert on this sort of shit (expert on wages? Wageology?) but $15 an hour sounds like a bit much for minimum wage. $10 seems about right, but $15? $32,000 dollars annually to flip burgers or stand at a register? Most people I've seen on minimum wage jobs aren't really trying to support themselves; the ones who ARE trying to support themselves or a family usually dont work minimum wage but rather low pay jobs, which everyone seems to confuse. In Tejas, mw is $7.25 an hour, and most people trying to seriously support themselves work jobs that pay $10-$15 an hour, which isn't a whole lot but it still makes a huge difference. IDK what i'm talking about so please dont lynch me
JWT155 04.21.16	A Federal Minimum Wage of $15 is idiotic, it may desperately be needed in places like NYC but it would be catastrophic in the mid-west and smaller states.
SCREAM! 04.21.16	"Because the American education system is anything but meritocratic." On average people with college/university education make more than people without, this has been proven time and again. Obviously that depends on other factors as well but, generally speaking, education does lead to better wages. What are you even trying to prove here? You went from "Nah dude, daddy paid me through college and therefore I should get more money" to "Because the American education system is anything but meritocratic."
klap 04.21.16	$15 minimum wage is coming to Los Angeles over the next five years. i support this in certain cities but not federally. some of the arguments here are truly hilarious
TheSonomaDude 04.21.16	LA and NYC makes sense because everything is fucking expensive there. An 8x10 wooden shack on Long Island could go for $100,000.
klap 04.21.16	yeah if i'm trying to buy a house here i'm spending at least $500k
JWT155 04.21.16	LA ain't cheap.
dbizzles 04.21.16	'$15 minimum wage is coming to Los Angeles over the next five years. i support this in certain cities but not federally. some of the arguments here are truly hilarious' Agreed. Seriously, the cost of living in a certain city or state should have a huge bearing on minimum wage. I grew up in a tiny rural shithole where you can live comfortable working 40 hrs/wk on minimum wage depending on your housing situation, so yeah, sometimes those are the only jobs available in some areas and it works if the cost of living is dick. BUT, if you're in NYC, LA, San Francisco- huge cities with ridiculous average cost for housing, what the fuck are you going to do? $7.25/hr won't get you anywhere there- so much for making a living regardless of your skillset- guess it's time to move to a singlewide trailer in Buttfuck, Missouri. I support a slight lift in the federal minimum wage and support a higher raise in areas that clearly demand it. I've never been employed anywhere that didn't allow for a raise and an argument could be raised that if you don't like your pay, you should look for a different job, but that can be easier said than done. It is on yourself to advance and make better pay, yes. But, sometimes that isn't an option and even just making $9-12/hr. even as just a single adult isn't enough to live comfortably at all. So, I think we should raise the minimum wage a $2-3 federally and push states with a higher cost of living to raise wages accordingly. That said, an all-round federal raise to $15 is going to cause some issues. We haven't had a bunch of problems in the past with rising costs affected by the increase, but we also haven't doubled min. wage either.
Cryptkeeper 04.21.16	'On average people with college/university education make more than people without, this has been proven time and again. Obviously that depends on other factors as well but, generally speaking, education does lead to better wages. What are you even trying to prove here? You went from' Sigh. The American educational system is designed (nowadays anyway) to favor rich population groups. Individuals more competent/hardworking/intelligent but less wealthy have a far smaller change to receive a proper education and to move up the social ladder. I said nothing about the economic market so try to go for a degree in comprehensive reading.
p4p 04.21.16	hmm in Indonesia, we have different minimum wage in every province. Big cities like Jakarta has the biggest minimum wages while places like Malang gets less than any other big cities.
Tyler. 04.21.16	http://www.sputnikmusic.com/images/members/1044207.jpg
SCREAM! 04.21.16	I think Jennifer just solved all our problems guys haha
p4p 04.21.16	ya have you seen that "i got 3000$ a month just by clicking my laptop" ads?
Aftertheascension 04.21.16	"torts and ascension are prob bff's irl" I fucking hate torts what are you on about. " Maybe next time actually think about your points and don't be such an idiot :)" I wasn't the one starting the blind arguments here, you dumbass.
klap 04.21.16	dbizzles w an accurate perspective
Aftertheascension 04.21.16	dbizzles is the best user on sput
dbizzles 04.21.16	Oh, you guys!
EyesWideShut 04.21.16	of course minimum wage should be raised..people in 2016 dont work those jobs because their easy but because they have to.. its easy to tell some "oh you better hit the books and go to college" when you clearly never had a struggle in your life.. America has never been the most forward thinking country in any regard so lets not worry about taking a small step in the right direction.
Intothepit 04.21.16	I've had to struggle most of my life, but I've worked my way up. I came out of poverty and had to fight and claw for everything I had. i didn't have one single ounce of help until I was well into my 20s. If you want $15/hr, work for it, don't just demand it. You want out of poverty, work you're ass to get out of it instead of blaming everyone else. That being said, minimum wage should be set on a state-level, not federally.
EyesWideShut 04.21.16	but Pit thats your story broski.. tell me you never meet someone who worked damn near their whole life and still has it hard and probably will tell they die.
Intothepit 04.21.16	"but Pit thats your story broski.. tell me you never meet someone who worked damn near their whole life and still has it hard and probably will tell they die." I understand that, but a lot of these people that I've talked to about this exact issue have used the word "impossible" an awful lot, when it's nowhere near impossible. 90% of the time, in my experience, it's just an excuse. If you're at a job where you can't move up, get your ass out there on your days off and find another one. If you can't find another job or you keep finding dead end jobs, maybe it's time to take a look in the mirror, because the common denominator in all this is you.
EyesWideShut 04.21.16	talkin bout Mission Impossible over here
Intothepit 04.21.16	I ain't no Tom Cruise, dawg
Calc 04.21.16	$15 an hour is coming to seattle too, all the businesses are pissed.
Intothepit 04.21.16	People also don't seem to realize that raising the minimum wage means raising prices on goods and services rendered by the business. This could also mean businesses cutting down their workforce and cutting hours, which means loss of jobs and more people struggling to find work. When the job market is flooded with the unemployed, that means more homeless and more houses going into foreclosure. The housing market crashed a few years ago and it's on the brink of doing so again. If we raise the minimum wage almost 100%, we can watch the market plunder to even worse depths than before. So what are we really accomplishing by raising the minimum wage? Nothing. Nothing at all. In fact, it could be much worse for the economy and the well being of the American people.
EyesWideShut 04.21.16	tbh 15 dollars an hour isnt even that much.. realistically you would still be in poverty if you have to live off that.. acting like this country would collapse on itself is a joke, same deal with free health care system.. America is always last in line.
Aftertheascension 04.21.16	pit coming in with truth
Madbutcher3 04.21.16	i'm pretty sure a mild compression of the wages in a business so that the lowest paid workers received slightly more and the top paid execs got paid slightly less proportional to their income would be feasible even if it would never happen. of course you can't just raise minimum wage without another compromise somewhere but that's just common sense, no need to oversimplify the equation
dbizzles 04.21.16	But, the increase in wages would also allow for more disposable income on a personal level. Wouldn't that offset a slight raise in goods and services and possibly even boost the economy? I don't know. My brain just took a shit.
Intothepit 04.21.16	You're forgetting how shrewd most business owners are. Major corporations like Walmart and McDonald's(where I hear the most clamoring for the increase) are already refusing to give fair wages to workers. If they make the required minimum wage, say, $14/hour, I can almost guarantee that those two corporations will cut their workforce in half, especially Walmart, a company that thrives on low prices. They are already understaffed at most locations(which is on purpose), so what makes you think they won't cut their workforce down even more? We are going to encounter to same issues we already have, but in much worse proportions.
iloveyouall 04.21.16	"maybe it's time to take a look in the mirror, because the common denominator in all this is you." ooh, maybe we can employ social darwinism too!
Intothepit 04.21.16	If we lived in a world full of rainbows and blow jobs, we would all be living comfortably, the companies we work for would compensate us fairly, and we'd all have free health care. Unfortunately, when it comes to capitalism, that's not how the world works. We live in a society where money is the one and only motivating factor, and when the dollar has the loudest voice of all, there is no such thing as fair.
Spec 04.21.16	i have sweet health care here
Intothepit 04.21.16	Goddamn Canadian!
Spec 04.21.16	booze, smokes and junk food is more expensive here tho but it all evens out (y)
Intothepit 04.21.16	Shut down your liver, get lung cancer, and suffer from diabetes? MOVE TO CANADA!
EyesWideShut 04.21.16	Canada, Germany, Holland, Denmark, etc all countries ahead of the curve.
Parallels 04.21.16	>realistically you would still be in poverty if you have to live off that.. >tbh 15 dollars an hour isnt even that much.. Minimum wage jobs are meant to exist for a reason. They are basic entry level jobs meant for quick cash on the side, common knowledge people right out of high school that are new to the ladder, and people that put no effort into defining a working skill that can be applied towards a viable career that has demand in society. If you want milk to be 7$ a gallon in another few years then keep it up. Raising them only forces businesses to restructure the way they do business, and it usually will result in prices being raised to offset the damage. It's all about how much they can squeeze from a paycheck, so they will demand more work out of you and fire your coworker, or install a self-checkout lane for jobs that are basically run by human programming like being the intermediary between a customer and their orders. >But corporate greed and execs and people make more money than me for my hard work! Work on changing that in society then, or make yourself more valuable to someone that wants to make money by hiring your skills. A job is literally selling yourself to someone anyways. Raising the minimum wage isn't going to change these facts and they will always find a way to make more money off of their business even if it means replacing you with a machine, and it has everything to do with the way the american economy works. That is why they will outsource an entire plant where people make 60k a year to mexico because they can pay them a fraction of the cost. When people say "oh nobody wanted those jobs" it's literally bullshit, and they will continue to keep the least amount of minimum wage jobs here as possible and move as many of the higher paying ones to places that pay less, just like Carl's Jr wanting to implement fully automatic service.
BigBalls 04.21.16	a world full of rainbows and blow jobs (2)
Intothepit 04.21.16	Parallels fucking nailed it
Spec 04.21.16	Parallels fucking nailed it word
Hyperion1001 04.21.16	people with only anecdotal evidence to back up their ill-informed opinions on a topic academics who have devoted their life to studying still havent come to a consensus on wow i bet this is a worthwile read.
dbizzles 04.22.16	And you're here, why?
Aftertheascension 04.22.16	"America is always last in line." And yet we still manage to be more powerful in 200 years than other countries have in thousands.
Sinternet 04.22.16	'more powerful in 200 years than other countries have in thousands.' we used to rule a quarter of the world don't get ahead of yourself
SCREAM! 04.22.16	It's his 15 y/O suburban kid showing again
someguest 04.22.16	It'll usher in the robotic age.
Cryptkeeper 04.22.16	'And yet we still manage to be more powerful in 200 years than other countries have in thousands.' >Ignoring all kinds of geopolitical influences
Intothepit 04.23.16	"It's his 15 y/O suburban kid showing again" When did it ever stop?
Storm In A Teacup 04.23.16	Parallels is kinda nailing it but hasn't inflation happened regardless of minimum wage increasing or not? Isn't the actual reality of a minimum wage increase simply a necessary reaction to previous inflation? Raising the prices and restructuring corporations and businesses as a reaction to raising minimum wage would in many cases warrant another reaction by raising minimum wage again because in many instances it would be the greed that caused inflation not necessity.
Storm In A Teacup 04.23.16	I am asking this not saying it is what I believe. Just what may seemingly be possible so I have to ask.
Intothepit 04.23.16	I would agree with you, but the trend would tell us that minimum wage would have an adverse affect on inflation than what we'd like.
Aftertheascension 04.23.16	"we used to rule a quarter of the world" And now you don't. 1-0
Keyblade 04.23.16	itt my imperialism is better than yours!
Cryptkeeper 04.23.16	Cringe
Intothepit 04.23.16	Jesus Christ....
Maniac! 04.23.16	Riveting political discourse is something you can always count on from sputnikmusic
someguest 04.23.16	At least no one in here has used the word libertarian to describe themselves. Fuck, those people are the worst.
RosaParks 04.23.16	was this thread necessary
someguest 04.23.16	Is anything necessary?
Asdfp277 04.23.16	Rising wages doesn't make the production costs higher[1] 1. David Ricardo
someguest 04.23.16	People who argue for the increase of minimum wage don't usually give a fuck about the costs of production. They're the ones that feel they're entitled to make boo koo bucks without having any experience or a way to sell themselves as an asset to a company.
Asdfp277 04.23.16	david ricardo invented economy
someguest 04.23.16	That was like, his opinion, man.
klap 04.23.16	boo koo bucks best new band name
Storm In A Teacup 04.23.16	What if we kept minimum wage the same for minors and raised it federal minimum wage $10-$11 an hour for anyone 18 and older and gave companies the right to let any minor go before they were 18. Minimum wage here in Oklahoma is $7.25 so working 40 hours a week MIGHT be enough to pay rent, buy enough food, and pay one extra bill but that is it.
Intothepit 04.24.16	"gave companies the right to let any minor go before they were 18" Ummm..... you can let go of anyone at any age as long as you have a reason.
someguest 04.24.16	"What if we kept minimum wage the same for minors and raised it federal minimum wage $10-$11 an hour for anyone 18 and older" Age discrimination.
Scoot 04.24.16	the real problem is the boss' son making three times as much as everyone else and doing 1/3 as much work
Storm In A Teacup 04.24.16	@intothepit yeah and what I just proposed would be giving companies the right to have the reason to terminate based on reaching adulthood. Thanks for helping me build my case 😇 @someguest okay but who cares about that? We are talking about legal adults and legal children. You have the right to buy cigarettes when you are 18. Why not have all adults have the right to be properly compensated for spending a chunk of their life working instead of keeping up this charade that the minimum wage is not a slave wage? To do that there must be laws seperating child and adult wages, which there already are, they just need to be evolved along with the rest of the laws that need to change to properly address raising minimum wage, including laws to protect against corrupt and greed driven inflation. @scoot yeah it's not necessarily a social epidemic tho but what you just said is fucked up and shouldn't happen
klap 04.24.16	Age discrimination ^
someguest 04.24.16	I'm not in the camp that believes individuals under 18 should be working anyway. Nobody should join the workforce until after high school or equivalent.
zaruyache 04.24.16	Kids save up for college, save up for transportation so they can be mobile after high school, save up for general personal expenses, and to help make ends meet at home. Saying "kids shouldn't work until after high school" is silly. If they want to make money, they should be allowed to find a job and do that job.
macman76 04.24.16	no minimum wage, all wages collectively bargained
someguest 04.24.16	"and to help make ends meet at home." I hate this shit. Nothing worse than fucking lame parents. Don't excuse it. "Saying "kids shouldn't work until after high school" is silly. If they want to make money, they should be allowed to find a job and do that job." You only have one era in your life to be carefree. I say drag it out as long as possible.
zaruyache 04.24.16	too bad the world isn't full of opportunities and rainbows and lollipops or else any of yours posts might've been valid.
Hyperion1001 04.24.16	^ i hate this argument its like "well things suck better not try to make them better". what a self-defeating philosophy to live by.
Asdfp277 04.24.16	[2] ya
zaruyache 04.24.16	self-defeating? It's being realistic. You can go la la la anyone can get a good job la la la la all you want, but that doesn't make it so. Many people are in crap positions and see no way out, and saying "they have no excuse" for that is not only unrealistic but just apathetic to the struggles of others. Someguest's posts are blatantly out of touch with reality and that should be obvious.
Hyperion1001 04.24.16	just more proof that debating things like this between laymen (which i definitely am as well) it overall useless. not a single person here has come up with an argument based on anything other than anecdotal and biased information.
macman76 04.24.16	I was somehow the only user to mention unions
Intothepit 04.24.16	"self-defeating? It's being realistic. You can go la la la anyone can get a good job la la la la all you want, but that doesn't make it so. Many people are in crap positions and see no way out, and saying "they have no excuse" for that is not only unrealistic but just apathetic to the struggles of others. Someguest's posts are blatantly out of touch with reality and that should be obvious." How is it unrealistic? I see plenty of people who overcome major struggles and obstacles to become very successful human beings, so yes, I'm quite apathetic to people who continue to tell me it's impossible to improve their lives. These people that continue to give us excuses are so willing to tell us every reason they can't make a better life for themselves, when in fact there are more reasons as to why they could. They shouldn't just be handed more money because their situation is difficult.
Asdfp277 04.24.16	someguest? out of touch? that's a new one lmao
Storm In A Teacup 04.24.16	@kris No it isnt age descriminatiom at all. Anyone legally an adult is what I would specifically want. So if you are 17 and abused and file to legally be on your own and get it bam you qualify to be paid as an adult. @someguest Not everyone has the same life and experiences and seen what you have seen someguest. You have to consider other perceptions and not just what you see of others reality. The topic we are talking about is involving the 15-18 range not kids but young humans on the cusp of adulthood. Zars bigger comment was right in all aspects plus some. @Zar technically the world is full of opportunities, rainbows, and lollipops so my posts feel very valid. 😄
Storm In A Teacup 04.24.16	Ahh too many new comments. The one where I said zar was 100% right was the one about kids.
Asdfp277 04.24.16	y'all's opinions suck and need to see a psychologist tbh
Storm In A Teacup 04.24.16	America, we needs a psycho logistics anylysist
Asdfp277 04.24.16	The US' economy is partially dependant on poor people being poor, so it's not unrealistic to say that at least a group of people must sacrifice themselves, it's unavoidable the way it is now, or at least, not totally their fault
Storm In A Teacup 04.24.16	...
Storm In A Teacup 04.24.16	It's unrealistic, but it is wrong on uncountable levels and was intentional in its creation. People act like things can't change and always have been that way during the history of Earth so that doesn't bother me because I know nothing will be the same in 100 years no matter which way things go, it is going though.
EyesWideShut 04.25.16	$$ ╾━╤デ╦︻ $$
EyesWideShut 04.25.16	i actually dont even know what a minimum wage job is tbh.
Storm In A Teacup 04.25.16	Nothing to worry about if your eyes (are) wide shut
bach 04.25.16	min wage raised or not the quality of your vapid life will not increase!
AwesomeFunGhostAmigo 04.25.16	its not even a social argument. inflation= raise wages accordingly simple
Storm In A Teacup 04.25.16	Yes
RadicalEd 04.25.16	"just more proof that debating things like this between laymen (which i definitely am as well) it overall useless. not a single person here has come up with an argument based on anything other than anecdotal and biased information." While I agree that this discussion could use some more facts and data, this is a really dangerous and self defeating attitude. A democracy will not function if the average layman just surrenders at every complex problem. People need to stay engaged with those discussions and form opinions, even if they may turn out to be faulty, because otherwise we could just do away with the whole electorial process and just let experts of the particular field decide everything. In Germany we just got around to implementing a minimum wage of 8,50 € two years ago (which amounts to roughly 9,50 $, but you gotta keep in mind that we have a better health care system and everyone has basic insurance and the cost of living is generally lower than in the US) and despite virtually all the (totally unbiased and totally not payed by corporations) "experts" predicting it would immediately have a terrible impact on the job market, causing roughly 500.000 jobs to just fall of the map within the first 12 months, this has not happened in the slightest. In fact we desperately needed a minimum wage because we had millions of (adult) people working for so little that they needed to get additional help from the state to make ends meet. This in turn is a huge strain on tax-paying populous because it leads to tax money being spent in huge amounts to "pull through" people who work 40-45 hours a week and can't pay of their rent. Now I don't necessarily know numbers and data for the US and I certainly would appreciate it, but I'd imagine that 7,25 USD is not enough to pay rent or even have a family in the US.
Storm In A Teacup 04.25.16	More facts are welcome but ideas are just as important if not more important when you look at history facts.
Aftertheascension 04.25.16	"You only have one era in your life to be carefree. I say drag it out as long as possible. " Highschool isn't care free. School is far more brutal and taxing than any job I've ever seen. The worst part is that it doesn't give you anything you can use, so you're stuck working your ass off to get to college so you can actually fucking learn something.
Apollo 04.25.16	I work in retail, selling liquor in Ontario Canada, I make $21.00 an hour. My wife works for a retail bookstore chain, making $11.53 an hour. I've worked all kinds of jobs over the years, and what I've learned from the last 12 years in the workforce is that EVERYONE deserves to make a liveable wage. We've been taught that you need to be a doctor or lawyer etc to be rich. Fuck that noise. The top 1% of the world makes so much money, and the rest of us are getting fucked. Instead of spending your whole life, education etc to become part of that 1%, everyone should be able to make a liveable wage like I do. Costco is doing great with this issue. Every corporation should be modeled after them
Storm In A Teacup 04.25.16	Yeah I would try to work for Costco if I didn't smoke weed.
mifzal 04.25.16	I think people deserve to be happy and live a stress free life, you know like not struggling to breath and pay the bills. (Assuming everyone is wise with their money)
RadicalEd 04.25.16	^ I mean this is a nice sentiment, but even as someone who supports minimum wage and think it probably should be raised in the US, it remains just that, a nice sentiment. And it is certainly a valid ideological starting point. But there is a lot more to this discussion.
zaruyache 04.25.16	Yo quiero fifteen dinero!
SCREAM! 04.25.16	"Highschool isn't care free. School is far more brutal and taxing than any job I've ever seen." The real world is going to hit you so hard I almost feel bad for you
Torontonian 04.25.16	I don't have a strong opinion to the right or left as a whole, but I feel like the minimum wage complaints are ridiculous. They're minimum skill jobs that anyone can do, and you're not going to be a valuable asset to them so it makes sense getting low pay. ur dumb
Keyblade 04.25.16	" The real world is going to hit you so hard I almost feel bad for you" lmfao honestly
Aftertheascension 04.25.16	"ur dumb" Great reasoning, dumbass. "The real world is going to hit you so hard I almost feel bad for you" So be it.
EyesWideShut 04.25.16	Apollo and RadicalEd speaking the truth.
Madbutcher3 04.25.16	"I don't have a strong opinion to the right or left as a whole, but I feel like the minimum wage complaints are ridiculous. They're minimum skill jobs that anyone can do, and you're not going to be a valuable asset to them so it makes sense getting low pay." But some people have no skills and potentially no means to get them if they're in a situation where they're stuck doing minimum wage labor.
Keyblade 04.25.16	or skilled immigrants who can't land a job and have no choice but to take up a min wage job
bach 04.25.16	@aftertheascention Drop out of high school try dope and be a tweak
p4p 04.25.16	"Highschool isn't care free. School is far more brutal and taxing than any job I've ever seen" wow you're not just an oxygen thief, but also a waste of biomass.
demigod! 04.25.16	sm0k
Storm In A Teacup 04.25.16	I worked as a manager at Sonic starting at $8 hr from 18-21 working 6 days a week either 530am-430pm each week or 2-midnight each week. That shit became so depressing I was right under the GM and I left after having to always fight for a raise and after three raises I was making $9.50 an hour as a manager running the store for three years basically by myself the last year because my GM got too stuck up on dealing pills and running around with her secondary lover. I tried turning my two week notice in and she said it was okay not to turn it in because I would be fired by corporate for turning in a notice. I was so naive. When I told her goodbye on the date I turned in to her to quit she freaked out and said I can't quit that she needs me cuz I'm the only one who works hard and that my notice was just a joke. So then at 21 I was blacklisted without being able to have a recommendation at the only job I ever had as an adult. It took me four years after that to find anything over $12 as someone who only graduated high school.
klap 04.25.16	"Highschool isn't care free. School is far more brutal and taxing than any job I've ever seen" puked of how good it was
Maniac! 04.26.16	"Highschool isn't care free. School is far more brutal and taxing than any job I've ever seen" LOL
DinosaurJones 04.26.16	That statement is so confusing to me. I hated High School, sure, but I also can see that high school was all kinds of petty shit that doesn't even matter now.
Keyblade 04.26.16	that statement says i'm a junior in highschool better than when he said i'm a junior in highschool
SCREAM! 04.26.16	High school can suck for things like bullying and general cliquyness, that aspect does get a lot better once you hit college. As far as actual work goes though it's a joke. College takes it up a notch but even then, once you get used to it, is an easy time compared to the working world
Relinquished 04.26.16	adapt and survive or get left in the dust with all those who complained about high school
Aftertheascension 04.26.16	"But some people have no skills and potentially no means to get them if they're in a situation where they're stuck doing minimum wage labor." That's no one's fault but their own.
Keyblade 04.26.16	sigh
DinosaurJones 04.26.16	I has a feeling the response to that statement would be along those lines.
Aftertheascension 04.26.16	Enlighten me, then.
Snake. 04.26.16	someone please tell me what is going on in this thread because i am not sifting through 187 blocks of fucking text
Aftertheascension 04.26.16	some people made valid arguments and then progressive idiots made invalid counterarguments that only are valid in a land of sunshine and rainbows.
Snake. 04.26.16	okay somebody besides ascension please
Aftertheascension 04.26.16	mature
Keyblade 04.26.16	progressive is a pejorative now lol
SCREAM! 04.26.16	Ascension's ability to take a hint is rivaled only by his ability to express critical thought and look at a situation outside of his comfortable, spoon-fed, 15 year old surburban kid viewpoint.
Aftertheascension 04.26.16	It's only a derogatory word if the person who is classified as such acts like an idiot. e.g. Iloveyouall or scream
RadicalEd 04.26.16	tbh some of the progressives are making it really easy to hate on them with all the bs going on in the last 2-3 years. But yeah aftertheascension is sittin in a house of glass and is hurling stones around
SCREAM! 04.26.16	"It's only a derogatory word if the person who is classified as such acts like an idiot. e.g. Iloveyouall or scream" Please show me an instance where I did this.
DinosaurJones 04.26.16	If a person has a minimum wage job because that's all they can get, and isn't making enough money, they get yet another job. Now working 60+ hours a week, they are making barely enough money to cover the necessities such as food and shelter. The idea that they don't have the skills to get another job can be fixed by perhaps going to school in order to attain said skills. But if they're making barely enough money to support themselves, how are they supposed to afford school? Perhaps take out loans? Okay. So now working 60+ hours a week at two minimum jobs, and also taking classes in order to attain skills to get a better job to make more money, they are going into debt because of their loans. How much more money do you think someone is going to make once they have a degree? I have a four year degree, and make just under $12/hr. I'm also in the hole a decent amount of money due to student loan debt. And I'm one of the lucky ones.
DinosaurJones 04.26.16	This just a hypothetical, of course. I have mixed feelings on things like welfare and government handouts, but economics are kind of shitty.
Aftertheascension 04.26.16	@scream Confused you w someone else. Sput on a phone is ass
Cryptkeeper 04.26.16	TL:DR Most people here are reasonable, exception being Ascension of course, who vouches for a class-based society where being unable to afford an education means working minimum wage where you can't support yourself so you'll never get a better education, meaning you and your offspring will never advance in life.
DinosaurJones 04.26.16	I'm hoping for some sort of "TOUGH SHIT, TWINKLE TITS," answer. Because that sort of situation isn't as bad as high school, mind you.
Cryptkeeper 04.26.16	Highschool made me cut myself 10000 likes and I'll stop having anorexia
Aftertheascension 04.26.16	Oh yes. The rich and business owners and working class are evil and we should give people a trophy just for playing.
SCREAM! 04.26.16	Means for survival = a trophy this is why everyone thinks you're an idiot man
Aftertheascension 04.26.16	Random people I know little to nothing about on the internet. Much sad. Many cry.
SCREAM! 04.26.16	Even during slavery, slaves were ensured food and shelter because those were necessities to ensure the slave would wake up the next morning and be fit to work. So that minimum wage should be enough to cover at least the same (within reasonable distance of the area of work) is a no brainer, on top of giving the employee enough to cover basic expenses such as transportation (so he can even get to work) and communication (because don't tell me a phone and internet haven't become a necessity in the way we work as a society)
DinosaurJones 04.26.16	[2]
SCREAM! 04.26.16	And this is the very, very basics. Really, the wage should give the worker some extra so that they CAN afford to develop new skills and move on to better opportunities. Otherwise, as others have explained, they're caught in a loop because, unlike you clearly, they came from a family that couldn't necessarily afford to pay for everything to the point where they get so jaded they believe life is this simplistic black and white scenario where you're either a good person or a bum.
DinosaurJones 04.26.16	They say money can't buy happiness, but it can certainly make life easier when you're not worried about how you're going to eat or pay rent this week.
Aftertheascension 04.26.16	I'm all for raising the mw in states where cost of living is absurd. No where else. I can only account for what I've seen. My father worked 3 jobs on top of going to college. No one should have to do that. But I'm not going to give someone 15 an hour for flipping burgers. No adult should be doing that job anyway, that being the exact reason that I think college should be free. Even that has repercussions. Straight raising minimum wage isn't going to anything but raise prices and discourage doing something with your life.
SCREAM! 04.26.16	"No adult should be doing that job anyway" How do you suggest we operate restaurants during the day while kids are in schools and adults are working their "real jobs"? Somebody has to do it (ie it serves a purpose to society) and a company profits from it (otherwise they wouldn't open during the daytime so it serves a purpose economically as well) so it deserves to be properly compensated as it is part of what helps your city function normally.
Maniac! 04.26.16	This thread is fun.
Aftertheascension 04.26.16	That's my point. It has a purpose. A purpose that is worth less because anyone can do it. You can't sit there and tell me that just as many people can program a website that can flip burgers. I learned c++ in 8th grade from a book in the library. For free
SCREAM! 04.26.16	Hence why it gets minimum wage you dunce
Aftertheascension 04.26.16	And minimum wage is meant to be just that. Minimum wage for minimum value.
SCREAM! 04.26.16	No one is arguing that though. Nobody is advocating for a communist utopia where everyone is paid equally regardless of work. Simply that the minimum wage in many places does not cover enough for people to live properly. It doesn't matter how skilled/unskilled the work is, if you are contributing 40+ hours per week of your time to it you deserve to make enough to get by.
smaugman 04.26.16	when will this thread end
Aftertheascension 04.26.16	Then what the fuck are we arguing about? I said the minimum wage should be raised in high cost areas. In Kentucky and similar, it's fine.
SCREAM! 04.26.16	I'm not sure what you're arguing for anymore. On one hand you've got: I said the minimum wage should be raised in high cost areas. which is fine. And on the other you argue that certain jobs shouldn't be done by adults which is ridiculously short sighted.
Sinternet 04.26.16	'And minimum wage is meant to be just that. Minimum wage for minimum value.' The way you phrase this just shows classism at it's finest. Yes a job maybe easier to do, that doesn't reduce it's worth to society. If everyone was an academic nothing would get done. You need people to do these simpler jobs. And that's not even counting people who do heavy labour and still get a minimum wage that's frankly insulting and not enough to live on.
Cryptkeeper 04.26.16	'when will this thread end' When Asscension finally throws himself of a bridge
DinosaurJones 04.26.16	I get paid to sit here in front of my computer, listen to music, and be on sput half the day. I make more than some emergency workers and soldiers, people who put their lives at risk. While I like making decent money, I have to admit that something about that doesn't sit right with me. I'm not saying I don't work hard, but working hard sitting in front of a computer is not like working hard and lugging shit around all day doing hard manual labor.
EyesWideShut 04.26.16	"and be on sput half the day" if your on sput half the day you should be getting paid more than 15 dollars an hour
Madbutcher3 04.26.16	"That's no one's fault but their own." do you spend your life hitting yourself with Atlas Shrugged in one hand and Principles of Biology in the other?
CalculatingInfinity 04.26.16	"Highschool isn't care free. School is far more brutal and taxing than any job I've ever seen. The worst part is that it doesn't give you anything you can use, so you're stuck working your ass off to get to college so you can actually fucking learn something." I've never laughed so hard at a Sput post this year holy shit.
Keyblade 04.27.16	I learned c++ in 8th grade from a book in the library. For free
climactic 04.27.16	the real issue at hand is that ascensions opinions are being given any credibility at all srsly guys stop it
Snake. 04.27.16	Highschool isn't care free. School is far more brutal and taxing than any job I've ever seenHighschool isn't care free. School is far more brutal and taxing than any job I've ever seenHighschool isn't care free. School is far more brutal and taxing than any job I've ever seenHighschool isn't care free. School is far more brutal and taxing than any job I've ever seenHighschool isn't care free. School is far more brutal and taxing than any job I've ever seenHighschool isn't care free. School is far more brutal and taxing than any job I've ever seenHighschool isn't care free. School is far more brutal and taxing than any job I've ever seenHighschool isn't care free. School is far more brutal and taxing than any job I've ever seen
Relinquished 04.27.16	stfu snake
macman76 04.27.16	"I learned c++ in 8th grade from a book in the library. For free" poor soul
Idleness 04.27.16	School is far more brutal and taxing than any job I've ever seen you will get criticized far more at school, it being one of the main tenets, you go to school and are expected to carry work home, and you have to constantly acquire new understanding. most jobs require application of a few skills, but schools require learning and applying various things with strict deadlines. if you are in a job that is not entry level, you likely have the mental or physical resources of years of school to deal with the issues, instead of learning at a basic level that there is an issue, what it is, and being expected to tackle it. of course, it is easier to live under your parents roof dependent on others than to run an entire life outside of work, but live outside of work and school is too variable to judge. for a straight comparison, school requires more resources and time for the majority of people, running a corporation and brain surgery aside, and you tend to have less understanding of the issue when confronted with a problem.
Idleness 04.27.16	life as a student leeching off others= easier than working to survive life as a student acquiring new information constantly= harder than using a few honed skills in the workplace
Keyblade 04.27.16	i didnt give a shit about anything in highschool, it was so carefree...no worries. all i cared about was basketball and getting my dick wet like, ur only responsibility is literally just to study and ur parents handle everything else. real life is gonna dickslap some of yall so hard
climactic 04.27.16	you forgot the part where high school is a literal joke if you have a double digit IQ and are willing to put in roughly 20% effort max
Keyblade 04.27.16	seriously
macman76 04.27.16	... and high school is why the minimum wage should be replaced with a cost of living adjusted guaranteed basic income
Idleness 04.27.16	like, ur only responsibility is literally just to study and ur parents handle everything else. as i recognized, but regardless of surrounding conditions, school by itself is more mentally taxing than most jobs by themselves.
mifzal 04.27.16	I mean this is from tax money right? which should be for the benefit of society, is the benefit of society to keep people working just to pay to the landlord and keep the stomach just full? "low skills" is somehow a reason to exploit people
Keyblade 04.27.16	i think ur making the wrong comparison man. instead of the demands of an actual job vs studies, i think the discussion is more about the lifestyles of a working adult vs that of a highschool student
Idleness 04.27.16	yeah, but i just wanted to bring attention to the fact theres a bit of merit in the argument. yall just shitting on him haha
mifzal 04.27.16	personally i'm much happier with my job today than i was in school + working part time. In my country it's normal for people to pursue under graduate courses in their late twenties and 30's. Anyone with high school education can get a decent desk job. But we still can see the grimm side of the economy for the less skilled.
Madbutcher3 04.27.16	"I learned c++ in 8th grade from a book in the library. For free" But your employability in regard to programming C++ would still be low if you didn't have a college degree in computing. Sadly things on paper seem to be worth more.
Aftertheascension 04.27.16	"like, ur only responsibility is literally just to study and ur parents handle everything else. real life is gonna dickslap some of yall so hard" You must have gone to an extremely easy school, then. High school is a full time job with no pay. "But your employability in regard to programming C++ would still be low if you didn't have a college degree in computing. Sadly things on paper seem to be worth more." I was making a point that it's possible to acquire skills without paying out the ass with overpriced college.
SCREAM! 04.27.16	"I was making a point that it's possible to acquire skills without paying out the ass with overpriced college." And he was making a point that, as far as employment goes, those skills are often useless without that overpriced piece of paper to validate them.
Keyblade 04.27.16	yea you were basically arguing against yourself with that point lol also, highschool in north america is mad easy bro. try doing british a levels, them shits are brutal
Aftertheascension 04.27.16	Every school and every student are different. What is easy to others may not be easy to you.
Maniac! 04.27.16	"I learned c++ in 8th grade from a book in the library. For free " No you didn't. I guarantee you didn't learn anything that resembles a working knowledge of C++ from a library book in eighth grade. I've grown up around programming my whole life. You're bullshitting in this thread so hard.
DinosaurJones 04.27.16	By the way, it isn't like working in a restaurant is a walk in the park. I worked in a casual dining restaurant for a year, and it was pretty tough. Everyone should be required to work retail, food industry, and hard labor at least once in their life. And realize how shitty those jobs are, and be glad if you're one of the lucky ones not pigeonholed into those jobs.
climactic 04.27.16	"as i recognized, but regardless of surrounding conditions, school by itself is more mentally taxing than most jobs by themselves." no. lies. are you in high school? you just have to show up and put in a couple hours a week for hw MAYBE. i did almost nothing in highschool and had a 3.9. so much bullshit itt
p4p 04.27.16	"Every school and every student are different. What is easy to others may not be easy to you." lazy excuses. just give up, you're not going anywhere w/o your parents with that kind of mentality. "I learned c++ in 8th grade from a book in the library. For free " if you really did learn programming from a library then you wouldn't be saying shit like highschool is tough and all that.
RadicalEd 04.27.16	Asencion is going to wake up one day and realize that he has been acting like an absolute retard his entire life.
DinosaurJones 04.27.16	Maybe. Also @clim, yes, he is in high school.
klap 04.27.16	"School is far more brutal and taxing than any job I've ever seen you will get criticized far more at school, it being one of the main tenets, you go to school and are expected to carry work home, and you have to constantly acquire new understanding. most jobs require application of a few skills, but schools require learning and applying various things with strict deadlines. if you are in a job that is not entry level, you likely have the mental or physical resources of years of school to deal with the issues, instead of learning at a basic level that there is an issue, what it is, and being expected to tackle it. of course, it is easier to live under your parents roof dependent on others than to run an entire life outside of work, but live outside of work and school is too variable to judge. for a straight comparison, school requires more resources and time for the majority of people, running a corporation and brain surgery aside, and you tend to have less understanding of the issue when confronted with a problem." sorry but this is just bullshit
Treeman 04.27.16	Was just thinking yesterday how sometimes we make kids do shit for like 12-13 hours per day (class, sports, HW were all required/expected of me) and we just assume that they like it and can handle it and shit. I'll say personally, I haven't had any sort of miserable office job or anything, but if we're assuming that people are doing things they like to do, I think that middle/high school were more taxing and challenging for me than the jobs I've had (fry-cook, waiter, camp counselor). The only one of these I truly loved doing was being a camp counselor. I've always enjoyed going to work (no matter the job) and classes but hardly ever enjoyed the extra shit that was expected of me when I just needed to chill out. Maybe my middle/high school was difficult (I've had a way easier time in college, probably cause of pot), but I subscribe to the theory that quality of work produced and life will increase if people aren't overworked. And unfortunately, if you're making minimum wage and expecting to be able to live anywhere outside of the boonies, you're going to be overworked, and that almost without fail makes anything you're doing way less fun. So: increase minimum wage, expect less of the employee's time, hire more people, have happier employees, better product. The second I stopped worrying about doing my homework in junior year high school my grades shot up and I felt a lot better in general, and I couldn't even fathom being happy and working over 40 hours a week frying french frys
Treeman 04.27.16	course this whole issue isn't simple at all and i'm sure my argument has its holes, but overall im in accord with raising the minimum wage. The good it would cause I believe would outweigh the potential problems. Plus, there's absolutely nothing wrong with making people happier
Madbutcher3 04.27.16	"What is easy to others may not be easy to you." I get the feeling this point undermines your own argument. also as a brit A-levels are kinda hard if you pick the wrong subjects. Tried to do half sciences and half humanities and my grades dropped like rocks for the former
Aftertheascension 04.27.16	"no. lies. are you in high school? you just have to show up and put in a couple hours a week for hw MAYBE. i did almost nothing in highschool and had a 3.9. so much bullshit itt" Then clearly you went to a bumfuck high school that barely classifies as a joke.
Storm In A Teacup 04.27.16	This thread is pissing me off. Over ten years of sputnik and this is what it took.
klap 04.27.16	im shocked that your jobs as a camp counselor, fry cook, and waiter have not been particularly stressful or challenging to you
dbizzles 04.27.16	I hate the argument that flipping burgers is a job reserved for kids/students. If only kids/students did those jobs businesses would be understaffed as all hell and suffer greatly. I think when people make these generalized statements, they grossly underestimate the number of these positions and have a pretty blurred vision of the workforce in America. Besides, don't tell me there aren't adults trying to go to school or caring for kids that don't fit the same type of scheduling needs as the supposedly infinite amount of kids/students that work those jobs. If you think a good-paying, full-time job is even a possibility for every adult- fuck, even a substantial percentage of adults- you are kidding yourself. My girlfriend works graveyards so she can be home when our kid gets out of school because there is no way we can pay for daycare w/ our income and expenses- and we handle our money pretty well in my opinion. That said, neither of us quite make $15/hr. though we are both close to it from working our way up with our employers. I have some college education, but no degrees and can't afford to go back to school and she had her son when she was 22 and had to drop out of school to take care of him until he was old enough to go to the daycare she worked so hard to provide for him. Shit isn't as black an white and as a lot of you are making it out to be here. I'm not saying I deserve $15/hr. just for showing up to work, I think my resolve and drive within my workplace would attest for that. Plus, it's not like my experience in different positions is worthless- a degree isn't the answer to everything, kids. Sometimes it just gets you a mountain of debt and you can't even secure a job that you've been preparing to secure for years. All that, said (sorry, I'm just about done here) I still don't support raising the federal minimum wage to $15, because I have worked and scratched and clawed to get to where I'm at financially. Some people can't do that and they still deserve a better hourly rate than $7 in any market, in my opinion. $7.25/hr. is shit and while I obviously agree that people should work their way up to improve their financial situation, I recognize that some people don't even have the time or resources to dedicate to doing that and that employers want to pay you as little as they can for obvious reasons. tl;dr I didn't come to argue, but some of you users have very one-sided perspectives and made up your mind before this thread was created. Please realize that every situation is unique and that everyone deserves a better base wage than 7.25/hr. in any case. Play nice. Opinions are great, but try to be rational with each other, mmmkay?
dbizzles 04.27.16	I immediately regret commenting again. Please go easy on me. I'm not an accounting or business major and have a very basic level of understanding concerning finance on a federal level. I'm just a regular guy with a regular job.
DinosaurJones 04.27.16	Man, I don't disagree with anything you said.
Cryptkeeper 04.27.16	^
Intothepit 04.28.16	"Then clearly you went to a bumfuck high school that barely classifies as a joke." Or you're just a complete, utter twat who can't count to twenty unless barefoot or wearing sandals.
Aftertheascension 04.28.16	Or you refuse to see the obvious fact that every school, every teacher, every curriculum, and every student is different. If you're too stupid or oblivious to see this, stop trying to make an argument.
Madbutcher3 04.28.16	generally the quality of schools probably varies more on state than anything else where you are in the uk schools vary but the curriculum is all under the same exam boards and specifications so really it's only teacher/student quality that makes a significant difference
Intothepit 04.28.16	"Or you refuse to see the obvious fact that every school, every teacher, every curriculum, and every student is different. If you're too stupid or oblivious to see this, stop trying to make an argument" No, I understand what you're saying. It doesn't take away from the fact that you're a useless moron without a clue as to how the world works. I didn't know either at 15, but I at least had a semblance of a clue as to how naive I was. You lack the self-awareness necessary to have that "clue."
Aftertheascension 04.29.16	I'm 17, dumbass. You are the one who is clueless and oblivious.
Sinternet 04.29.16	'I'm 17, dumbass.'
Cryptkeeper 04.29.16	>'I'm 17'
Intothepit 04.29.16	17 and saying I'm oblivious? Lol ok buddy
Maniac! 04.29.16	must be trollin
Snake. 04.29.16	"No, I understand what you're saying. It doesn't take away from the fact that you're a useless moron without a clue as to how the world works. I didn't know either at 15, but I at least had a semblance of a clue as to how naive I was. You lack the self-awareness necessary to have that "clue."" "I'm 17, dumbass. You are the one who is clueless and oblivious." my fucking brain
Keyblade 04.29.16	"I'm 17, dumbass. You are the one who is clueless and oblivious." I don't think I've ever tasted irony this delicious
anarchistfish 04.29.16	suck commie dick bruh
DinosaurJones 04.29.16	Guys, clearly, he's woke.
anarchistfish 04.29.16	"I feel like the minimum wage complaints are ridiculous. They're minimum skill jobs that anyone can do, and you're not going to be a valuable asset to them so it makes sense getting low pay." ughhhh fuck off with your ideological bs
Ryus 09.24.18	ascension: "Highschool isn't care free. School is far more brutal and taxing than any job I've ever seen. The worst part is that it doesn't give you anything you can use, so you're stuck working your ass off to get to college so you can actually fucking learn something." also ascension: "I'm 17, dumbass. You are the one who is clueless and oblivious." fucking gold
Papa Universe 09.24.18	abolish minimal wage, maybe?
platnum 09.24.18	To read this thread or not
Sinternet 09.24.18	i forgot about this asinine thread i almost forgot about ascension as well, possibly the dumbest user in this site's history
Anthracks 09.24.18	lol
Snake. 09.24.18	ascension is the kind of guy that screams at 13-year-olds on fortnite because they keep pushing him outside the safe area
zaruyache 09.24.18	nah fortnite's freetoplay and he wouldn't associate with such ilk.
Keyblade 09.24.18	ofc aftertheascension was on the other side of "ppl should be able to survive on minimum wage"
SymbolicInTime 09.24.18	I mean that’s literally originally why the minimum wage was put into place
GhostB1rd 09.24.18	We ShOuLd HaVe A $15/hR lIvInG wAge
GhostB1rd 09.24.18	I'm gonna get this site back to form by starting a Kavanaugh thread. DID HE DO IT? Find out in my list.
Rowhaus 09.24.18	Let the labor market do its thing. Egregiously low wages will be met with extremely low supply and poor quality labor. Things work themselves out.
jagride 09.24.18	conspiracy theories thread is over there --->
klap 09.25.18	damn this was a good one