Swoon02: "getting" Black Metal/extreme Metal

Swoon02 12.06.14	I'm just trying to expand my musical horizons, and extreme metal is something I've never understood the appeal of, and now that I've endured an album, my understanding still hasn't deepened. I just want to know what I'm missing here.
Swoon02 12.06.14	I completely forgot about Opeth. I do really enjoy them. So there's that
pedro70512 12.06.14	There's black metal and then there's BLACK METAL. Saor's latest is pretty accessible to new fans, while Nattens Madrigal takes some serious warming up to. It took me a while to get into also.
Swoon02 12.06.14	Before I go into another album, I'd like to know what I should be looking for (if that makes sense). What makes good black metal good and bad black metal bad. I don't have the experience within the genre to discern good from bad (let alone to even try to enjoy the music as a whole, but at least appreciate it artistically).
pedro70512 12.06.14	If you'd like some introductory stuff, try Agalloch's "The Mantle" and Caladan Brood. They're all about atmosphere and have a mix of clean and harsh vocals, as well as folk/traditional instrumentation. (And while I've got your attention, try my brand new instrumental EP that's got some BM influence, Taravana - "A Visible Chill).
ComeToDaddy 12.06.14	Yeah poor production is a staple of the classic black metal, but it's expanded a lot since those times. There's no shame in focusing on the accessible stuff: Saor - Roots Kataxu - Hunger of Elements Moonsorrow - anything Black metal is more about atmosphere, most of it will lack somewhat in variation if you're not used to the genre. The majority will have a fair bit of repetition, but it's something you accustom to pretty quickly (or at least I did)
chinesewhispers 12.06.14	Yeah black metal is mostly about atmosphere, but it's pretty diverse. Some bands are more technical, melodic, ambient, experimental, progressive, etc. than others so you just gotta find what you enjoy most. Deafheaven's Sunbather made a bunch of non-bm fans shit their pants last year so it's probably worth a listen
Swoon02 12.06.14	I'll check it out pedro! And it is probably better to start accessible (Darkthrone must not be the most accessible). What are some examples of bad black metal? For the sake of comparison?
DrMaximus 12.06.14	Shit their panties*
chinesewhispers 12.06.14	^lmao. Bad black metal? Check this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UEip_hPquy0
Swoon02 12.06.14	There was nothing enjoyable about czarci swit. Wow that was some of the worst "music" i've ever been subjected to.
minimesmyidol 12.06.14	honestly, Deafheaven's roads to judah helped get me into black metal. Cant get into sunbather at all though. The Satanist by Behemoth is about as accessible and polished as black metal gets albeit more on the death metal side of things. Darkthrone is a tough one to get into, but after a few listens everything just clicks. Check these out: lantlos-.neon watain-the wild hunt and immortal-at the heart of winter
pedro70512 12.06.14	Sunbather made my panties wet for sure.
Dryden 12.06.14	bad bm = hawks
Deathconscious 12.06.14	the shit production makes it feel colder, more raw, more ancient. Darkthrone really benefits from that type of production.
trackbytrackreviews 12.06.14	bergtatt
JohnTheSavage 12.06.14	What's your definition of extreme metal? I've heard black/thrash/death as the main trinity. Honestly I don't think the classic route is to enter from the black side, the typical story you hear is Metallica to Slayer to a bunch of underground thrash to the beginnings of black and death, always looking for something more extreme. I on the other hand came from the hipster side, I'm pretty sure the first black metal song I ever heard was Lost Wisdom by Burzum. I wouldn't say I immediately understood anything of it, but it sounded different from anything else I'd heard and I was immediately attracted in some way.
ComeToDaddy 12.06.14	But like he said, Becoming the Archetype are the heaviest band he's listened to. Darkthrone would be great down the line, but probably not the best entry point. You'd be best off starting by searching out shoegaze or folk-influenced bm. Even Alcest's "Ecailles De Lune" could be good to try out, even if it's frowned upon by a good portion of the community. Agalloch are pretty popular too. Other more accessible albums: Ulver - Bergtatt (BIG recommendation for this one, absolutely amazing for entry level bm) Vinterland - Welcome My Last Chapter Emperor - In The Nightside Eclipse Enslaved - Axioma Ethica Odini (This one would be great if you want some creativity and a mix of genres, very little repetition in here)
InFlamesWeThrash666 12.06.14	Start with Puritanical Euphoric Misanthropia by Dimmu Borgir. It's very accessible (it has lots of keyboards/violins etc to break the monotony and also good production)
minimesmyidol 12.06.14	Most peoples first exposure (like me) was cradle of filth and dimmu borgir in high school. It didnt really "click" for me until the more recent american bands started emerging then it started to make sense. But just like any genre, there is good black metal and bad black metal. keep listening and make your own opinions. i still don't really care for symphonic bm like CoF
ChoccyPhilly 12.06.14	A lot of typical black metal is difficult to get into due to how raw the production is. Nevertheless, there are ways! Try out: Ulver - Bergtatt Dodecahedron - S/T
thacoconut94 12.06.14	Black metal is the most natural genre in the world, just pure unfiltered anger, loneliness and sadness, a gateway to your inner most dreads... But it's heavy as shit and not for those who probably aren't already into extreme metal, start with softer bands like Opeth, later satyricon etc... I highly recommend satyricon's self titled album!
CalculatingInfinity 12.06.14	Rageaholic's retrospectives all rule, nice shout out. Anyway these lads recs are dead on, but I'd add Shining's Halmsted to the pile.
ChoccyPhilly 12.06.14	Oh damn, forgot to include: Altar of Plagues - Teethed Glory and Injury Maybe not "typical" black metal, but it can definitely ease you into the genre
RoyalImperialGuard 12.06.14	One does not simply analyze Darkthrone like a fucking nerd.
p4p 12.06.14	check out cradle of filth m/
Tunaboy45 12.06.14	It's about the atmosphere, and the repetition used to create said atmosphere.
SpiritCrusher2 12.06.14	never understood why would someone want to get into some genre of music by force. if that riff from transilvanian hunger's t/t didn't do anything for you, then I think you should just give up
ChoccyPhilly 12.06.14	"if you need to be eased into black metal then you don't get black metal" erm... nah
Keyblade 12.06.14	Couldn't have put it better CometoDaddy And lol @ rec'ing Beherit to someone struggling to get into black metal
Swoon02 12.06.14	I want to thank all the positive feedback, help, and recs you guys have given. I fully expected to be torn a new one by the dark and death metal elitists.
ChoccyPhilly 12.06.14	Check this out, mate: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vrOnoIiHjqk They blend hardcore punk and black metal together
Tunaboy45 12.06.14	If you want something that might ease you into it, try this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SnTL1L8a6YI Not entirely black metal, more blackened death that's not overbearing.
bach 12.06.14	lol michael snoxall
Relinquished 12.06.14	One does not simply analyze Darkthrone like a fucking nerd [2]
demigod! 12.06.14	just listen to the music
Alastor 12.06.14	"Darkthrone is for all the evil in man"
Tunaboy45 12.06.14	That's definitely true.
bach 12.06.14	"you break my heart" lol sup dog. didn't know you had so much love for the throne man
Valkyrion 12.06.14	bm originally existed as an anthitesis to norse society of the time with its hypocritical positive mindset it had and mainstream music in general, hence why it is dark, raw and misanthropic and understanding the aesthetic is the key. research a little history and read reviews while listening to some classics and you should be able to "get it" if you were ever meant to like the genre some bm that helped me get into the genre: emperor - in the nightside eclipse burzum - hvis lyset tar oss / filosofem darkthrone - under a funeral moon / a blaze in the northern sky (the latter still carries some traditional metal influence so it's easier to get into) darkspace - I, II and III xasthur - suicide in dark serenity gorgoroth - pentagram bathory - under the sign of the black mark also you might want to try some less traditional stuff: midnight odyssey - funerals from the astral sphere (cosmic shoegaze-influenced bm) agalloch - the mantle (more post-metal than bm but still has harsh vocals) summoning - stronghold (epic medieval folk bm) dissection - the somberlain (bm crossed over with melodic death metal) woods of desolation - torn beyond reason / as the stars (post rock influenced bm) inquisition - ominous doctrines of the perpetual mystical macrocosmos (if you care about the occult )
ChoccyPhilly 12.06.14	I strongly recommend you listen to the less traditional stuff first as the recs stated above aren't particularly easy to listen if you're not used to BM
Tunaboy45 12.06.14	Throwing him into the deep end straight away isn't going to help him. Most people can't just go from Metallica to Burzum.
Valkyrion 12.06.14	black metal was never meant to be easy listening so yeah there's no easy way in
Tunaboy45 12.06.14	"I remain adamant that people need to learn from the roots of the genre, rather than the post-2000 watered down post-black metal shoegaze band" That is a good point. Obviously if you were choosing Darkthrone or Deafheaven as an introduction, you'd choose Darkthrone.
RoyalImperialGuard 12.06.14	Worst god damn list of all time. Fuck you Swoon.
ChoccyPhilly 12.06.14	there are definitely easy ways into BM, like Thantifaxath or Ulver (bergtatt) for example
ChoccyPhilly 12.06.14	"I remain adamant that people need to learn from the roots of the genre, rather than the post-2000 watered down post-black metal shoegaze band" you're acting like everything BM post-2000 IS in fact, watered down, hybrid genre stuff
Relinquished 12.06.14	that's not what he said choccy lrn2read
RoyalImperialGuard 12.06.14	Soft names make soft people. Is your real name Todd Choccophilly?
ChoccyPhilly 12.06.14	it essentially is. He's basically saying that nothing post-2000 sounds anything likethe genre's roots. Sure, those bands might not be the pioneer bands but they could certainly sound like them
exitsense 12.06.14	"you're conditioning him to be a pussy" how predictably and transparently hypermasculine sputnik is. going from prog rock and post-hardcore to extreme metal is hardly "expanding musical horizons". you boys ought to try disco and r&b for a change... or frickin luigi nono
Avagantamos 12.06.14	Enslaved - Axioma Ethica Odini got me into BM. their stuff is pretty accessible
titanslayer 12.06.14	I got into bm by listening to immortal, they're a lot more accessible then a lot of other bands in the genre.
titanslayer 12.06.14	Also enslaved is the best band ever, they're probably a good place to start too
RoyalImperialGuard 12.06.14	God damn, most you you people shouldn't even be listening to black metal in the first place. Start with early Bathory, if you don't like it then go fuck yourself.
Avagantamos 12.06.14	in what way is going from prog rock and post-hardcore to black metal not expanding this user's horizons?
SpiritCrusher2 12.06.14	Start with early Bathory, if you don't like it then go fuck yourself.[2]
RoyalImperialGuard 12.06.14	Remember people. Black Metal. For Fans Of: Satan, Fuzz, Riffs, Eternal Darkness and Frog Vokills.
Relinquished 12.06.14	you got no business in death metal if you can't stomach gore either
exitsense 12.06.14	i can't infer much about this user but the majority of sputnik users like to feel masculine and limit themselves to that. it might as well say "music for bros" under the sputnik logo.
Relinquished 12.06.14	or maybe we're saying this to piss you off, exitsense. transparently mad and annoyed at a userbase you don't participate in, with you plugging up there an avant-garde composer to distinguish yourself from everyone else, how novel of your obscurity. you know there's kernels of truth in what royalimperialguard says.
pedro70512 12.06.14	I'm on board with fuzz, riffs, and eternal darkness. "Odens Ride Over Nordland / A Fine Day to Die" was the first BM song I ever heard and I loved it.
Crysis 12.06.14	honestly if you're complaining about poor production and repetitive riffs/drums then there's nothing more to "get" about black metal, just admit you don't like the genre and move on no need to force anything
exitsense 12.06.14	wut, that being "soft" is apparently a bad thing? and swoon is saying he's interested in trying to understand the appeal of something so i'd think he already gets what the appeal of r&b and disco might be as opposed to an avant-garde composer? oh and what would you get out of pissing me off? i wasn't trying to piss people off in here i just feel disappointed and irritated that people limit themselves and barely even realize why they do it.
pedro70512 12.06.14	people are stupid. even the smart ones.
ChoccyPhilly 12.06.14	r&b is hot though
Relinquished 12.06.14	soft is bad in the sense when it's promoting for and attributed to weak-will, submissiveness, and lack of self-strength. not that black metal opposes this stuff but since it had certain things that "un-soft" people would like, then when the style is contaminated with those shitty attributes it just makes the music suck. if you want to talk about limiting oneself, look at you, you like fuckin Blasphemy but you don't understand what we meant. "oh sputnik is too overly masculine, they must not like other genres besides the THREE genres I brought up. listen to luigi nono." also: "i just feel disappointed and irritated that people limit themselves and barely even realize why they do it." welcome to life
Tunaboy45 12.06.14	Only you can prevent flame wars.
Relinquished 12.06.14	foad tunabreath this is a big boy thread
Relinquished 12.06.14	jk stay if you want let's jam luigi nono
exitsense 12.06.14	well i get the appeal of metal and of masculinity but when it's someone's only interest it would seem to me that gender role restrictions are what cause such a limited preference... and i don't think that's healthy to stay more on the topic of this list i want to mention how i notice that there seems to be three sides to metal (though oftentimes occur concurrently): one that is more technical, one that is more primal and aggressive and nasty (oftentimes people who prefer more technical metal criticize the sloppiness and simplicity even though it's intentional), and a third that is more doomy and atmospheric, and they have slightly different appeals.
pedro70512 12.06.14	"when it's someone's only interest it would seem to me that gender role restrictions are what cause such a limited preference" gender role restrictions are unhealthy but I doubt many people base their taste in metal on them. I mean, look at Cynic. That is some gay, gay metal, man.
zaruyache 12.06.14	If you're not used to listening to music with often purposefully crappy production, then your first few experiences with said music probably shouldn't involve said crappy production. I got into bm through WitTR's Black Cascade which had a really natural analog sound and barely sounded anything like Darkthrone. Took a while to learn to stomach Naglfar even. Bm recs for the bm newb: Wolves in the Throne Room, Dissection, Windir, Agalloch, Equilibrium. Most of those are pretty unkrieg but they're good for easing you into the whole harsh vox tremolo guitars fuzzy satan rawr thing.
pedro70512 12.06.14	the endgame here is, of course, Nattens Madrigal.
RoyalImperialGuard 12.06.14	Find a genre more masculine than metal. If you're a dude and you're complaining about an over saturation of masculinity in metal then you're definitely a tremendous pussy, more than likely a bitch and lack the testosterone to even listen to m/ in the first place.
Dryden 12.06.14	i fucked her
ChoccyPhilly 12.06.14	hip-hop's pretty masculine, tbh
RoyalImperialGuard 12.06.14	I'm heated, who wants to make out?
RoyalImperialGuard 12.06.14	Never should have let you go, promise me, you'll stay with me foreverrrrrr
pedro70512 12.06.14	all this talk about black metal IS pretty steamy
Dryden 12.06.14	need a back rub
RoyalImperialGuard 12.06.14	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04Q7f74bRZo I'll pour the wine.
TheSupernatural 12.06.14	Sunbather is the only black metal I've ever really enjoyed
Dryden 12.06.14	HAA
SeaAnemone 12.06.14	A really big chunk of the music you're trying to get into is really bad. Don't try too hard to get into it. Only a few metal subgenres are worthwhile at all tbh. Doom, sludge, black, death, whatever.
SeaAnemone 12.06.14	I approached metal from a punk entryway and got more accustomed to the abrasive production there before I got was able to appreciate abrasive metal aesthetic. That allowed me to skip a bunch of the shitty metal people listen to here.
SeaAnemone 12.06.14	#Dryden
Cygnatti 12.06.14	Claudio in the house. List is officially sacred.
Dryden 12.06.14	#hashtag
zaruyache 12.07.14	but pussy has an inherently feminine origin, so it's still sexist to assert that pussy = bad. There should be a different term used, though, as your use of the term with a very specific non-gender-based meaning won't be understood by other individuals and any use of said term therefore will encourage a sexist understanding of the word.
p4p 12.07.14	this exitsense guy is getting on my nerve maybe i should drop a shout and call him a fgt
Cygnatti 12.07.14	"Find a genre more masculine than metal." well idk, metal can be absurdly cheesy sometimes...
zaruyache 12.07.14	it refers to weak individuals, and also female genitals. Why do you think that is
zaruyache 12.07.14	The domesticated feline is not king of anything, even if it might think otherwise On faggots: heretics were also thrown into fires, and those that recanted had to wear the symbol on them to show their former heresy. Not that far a jump from burning heretics to burning gays. And further, it might've come from a negative term for a woman--weak women are awkward and need to be carried around and cared for. Again, you can take it back to the patriarchy and hypermasculinity attacking anything that deviates from the norm. From faggot as 'weak woman' you can easily move 'guy who's immasculine in some way' to 'gay guy.' " YOU are the one thinking that women and weakness are associated." It's most used either to mean weak or in reference to genitals. Given that this is definitely a patriarchy society and that women are constantly objectified and femininity is still looked down upon by most men, it's not really hard to see why a connection between weakness and femininity is often made.
zaruyache 12.07.14	http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=faggot
ZombicidalMan 12.07.14	jam forest and don't look back m/
Relinquished 12.07.14	you must've been so snubbed in the past snoxall for you to get that essay completed
Relinquished 12.07.14	idk what you wrote was so boring it seemed twice as long
Relinquished 12.07.14	but's that cuz i'm high i think too
RoyalImperialGuard 12.07.14	I will agree with whoever mentioned disco needing a revival, particuarly Euro-Disco. #fuckyeahitdoes
Cygnatti 12.07.14	New wave > disco But I'm down wit both. ^_^