Muisc4Life26
06.19.14 | feature |
mryrtmrnfoxxxy
06.19.14 | wag |
Friday13th
06.19.14 | eh check Bob Dylan |
deathschool
06.19.14 | "Why would you want any other when you're a world within a world?" - Can't Make a Sound
My personal favorite. He has so many that are pure genius though. Nice list. |
Chortles
06.19.14 | 5 is the best ever |
scorpiusx
06.19.14 | Bob Dylan's a great lyricist; I prefer Elliott. And I massively prefer Elliott's music to what I've heard from Dylan. |
Slut
06.19.14 | 10 10 10 |
avonbarksdale221
06.19.14 | Feature. |
Wafflez
06.19.14 | "eh check Bob Dylan"
They're really not all that similar.Anyways, great list.
|
JamieTwort
06.19.14 | Dylan is literally leagues ahead of Elliott as song writer, it's not even remotely close.
Elliott's lyrics are somewhat overrated. Some of them are great and he's definitely a talented song writer but I don't get how people can rank him up there with all time greats such as Dylan, Cohen etc. |
JamieTwort
06.19.14 | "I'm taking the cure so I can be quiet whenever I want. So leave me alone; you ought to be proud that I'm getting good marks."
Taken out of context this almost sounds like something Blink 182 would write. |
JamieTwort
06.19.14 | Not hating though, Elliott rules. Love his first 3 albums, particularly his self-titled. |
deathschool
06.19.14 | Wow, Jamie. I kind of hate you right now. |
NordicMindset
06.19.14 | 11 yes |
avonbarksdale221
06.19.14 | Jamie, I think you seem to be confusing opinions with facts. |
JamieTwort
06.20.14 | Not at all, everything I said in my previous posts is simply my opinion. |
avonbarksdale221
06.20.14 | Yeah fair enough, I just suppose you stated it in such a way that implied that yours was the objective answer. My bad man.
Lyrics more than anything I find to be completely and utterly subjective; I can relate more to the lyrics in Elliott's songs than someone with perhaps a greater skill with language than Dylan, simply because I can empathise more with him. |
larrytheslug
06.20.14 | Oh we're so very precious, you and I
And everything that you do makes me want to die
Oh I just told the biggest lie
|
scorpiusx
06.20.14 | First of all let me say that my experience/knowledge of Dylan is pretty limited, and I need to delve more into his discography. For now I'm just going to cite what many consider one of his finest lyrical albums in "Blood on the Tracks".
All of Elliott's albums were better than "Blood on the Tracks" even though that album has some great lyrics on it. Wanna know why? Elliott was a better SONG writer. If "Blood on the Tracks" is any indication of Dylan at the height of his powers, then it appears like Dylan mainly knows how to take a good poem and put some instruments behind it, rather than crafting an actual song with interesting musical ideas mixed in with the great lyricism. Much of "Blood on the Tracks" is really samey: One verse at a time with each verse ending in a similar line: "A simple twist of fate", "Shelter from the storm", "You're gonna make me lonesome when you go", "The jack of hearts." Hell even a genuinely great song like "Tangled Up in Blue" follow this same formula. By far the best song on that album breaks this monotony: "If You Say Her Say Hello".
Dylan's lyrics are often great because they are poems before they are songs. Elliott's songs were better because they were actual songs before poems, yet were every bit as poetic as the poems that Dylan crafted on anything on "Blood on the Tracks."
With that being said, I still prefer Elliott's lyrics over Dylan's even with the slanted advantage Dylan crafts in his favor. And yes I understand I need to listen to more Dylan before I craft too much of an opinion of his music, but if "Blood on the Tracks" is one of his highest watermarks....eh. |
JamieTwort
06.20.14 | Blood on the Tracks is an album that Smith could have only dreamt of creating. The quality of the song writing on that album
is so far ahead of anything Elliott has put out that I don't even feel it necessary to try and justify it.
To me it's almost like comparing Leonard Cohen to Passenger (UK). |
JamieTwort
06.20.14 | I get what avon said about relating more to Elliott's lyrics but personally the emotion on an album like Blood on the Tracks just hits me so much harder than Elliott's self-pitying lyrics. |
avonbarksdale221
06.20.14 | Agreed, Passenger is miles ahead of that pleb Leonard Cohen. |
JamieTwort
06.20.14 | Haha |
scorpiusx
06.20.14 | Eh, I don't find Elliott's lyrics to be self pitying generally. Anyway, the emotional impact on "Blood on the Tracks" is 50/50 for me. On one hand you have songs that leave a genuine impact like "If You See Her Say Hello" and "Shelter from the Storm", but then you have songs like "You're Gonna Make me Lonesome when you Go" that just aren't executed as well as they should be. I know it's cliche to bag on Dylan's voice, but it really is hit or miss. It's not even because it's bad; his voice isn't much worse than say Jeff Mangum's, but you could always feel the sincerity and emotion in Mangum's voice, no matter how abrasive. You get a song like "You're a Big Girl Now" or "Meet Me in the Morning" where his voice just sounds really tongue in cheek and inappropriate to the tone of the song. Idk, maybe that's just me, but it really soils my appreciation of the music to a certain degree. |
scorpiusx
06.20.14 | And then the difference in varying kinds of song structures/melodies between any Elliott album and "Blood on the Tracks" is so vast it's barely worth comparing. Elliott wins that category in a landslide. |
JamieTwort
06.20.14 | Structural variety doesn't matter one bit when the songs themselves are so much better than what Elliott can muster.
As for Dylan's voice I much prefer it to Elliott's and I think it's brilliant at conveying emotion and whatever mood he's going for. I also love the way he varies his voice from song to song on Blood on the Tracks despite his limited vocal range, he shows far more variety in terms of his vocal style on that album than Elliott ever has. |
JamieTwort
06.20.14 | Having said all that comparing Dylan to Elliott in any other terms than quality of lyrics/song writing seems a bit redundant, too very different artists. |
Rowan5215
06.20.14 | Agreed, Passenger is miles ahead of that pleb Leonard Cohen. [2] |
JamieTwort
06.20.14 | lol have you even heard Cohen, Rowan? |
Rowan5215
06.20.14 | Lol I was only joking Jamie but yeah I've heard a couple of his songs, no full albums |
JamieTwort
06.20.14 | I figured you were but I was generally curious as to whether or not you'd heard anything by Cohen. |
Rowan5215
06.20.14 | Yeah I've heard bits really need to get on hearing some full albums by him though
And for the record I love Passenger a lot |
Aids
06.20.14 | hell to the yes, great list |
postrockpaperscissor
06.20.14 | Smith > Nick Drake > Bob Dyan
(personal opinion) |
JamieTwort
06.20.14 | Reverse it and add more greater than's next to Dylan and you have my ranking of the 3. |
JamieTwort
06.20.14 | Frankly Dylan is just in another league lyrically. Only rivaled by Cohen and Anderson. |
Rowan5215
06.20.14 | Morrissey is the best though |
avonbarksdale221
06.20.14 | Mangum >
for real |
deathschool
06.20.14 | Goddamn. Jamie shit all over this thread. Not gonna sugarcoat it. |
avonbarksdale221
06.20.14 | Don't you know that I love you?
Sometimes I feel like only a frozen still life who fell down here to lay beside you
Listened to this for the first time at 4 this morning. No words. |
deathschool
06.20.14 | If you're jamming all of Full Moon, just wait til you get to High Times, Avon. |
avonbarksdale221
06.20.14 | I am ready. |
deathschool
06.20.14 | The buildup in that song would definitely be in my top twenty Elliott lyrics. |
avonbarksdale221
06.20.14 | I've only listened to the first four Elliott albums and a few select songs from his other releases, but my favourite is hands down the climax in Kings Crossing
But I don't care if I fuck up
I'm going on a date with a rich white lady, ain't life great
Give me one good reason not to do it (because we love you)
So do it
:'[ |
Rowan5215
06.20.14 | The "because we love you" is heart-breaking |
avonbarksdale221
06.20.14 | most soul-destroying song I've ever heard most likely
his pain is so real its almost tangible |
deathschool
06.20.14 | I've never even noticed the "because we love you" part. Is it in the studio version? |
Rowan5215
06.20.14 | Its in the version I have for sure
|
deathschool
06.20.14 | I don't know. I'll listen for it next time. King's Crossing does destroy me though. |
demigod!
06.20.14 | king's crossing is 1 |
Rowan5215
06.20.14 | Yeah the bit quoted from King's Crossing in this list is one of the best ever |
deathschool
06.20.14 | Everything Means Nothing to Me's lyrics are often overlooked. The lyrics in those verses are some of the most genius ever
regarding the passage of time. |
avonbarksdale221
06.20.14 | when the piano kicks in oh man
everything about that song is ...fuk
and yeah death its in the studio version, listen closer and you'll hear his girl say it in the background. fucking tragic man. |
Rowan5215
06.20.14 | I'm never gonna know you now
But I'm gonna love you anyhow |
deathschool
06.20.14 | He just has so many amazing lines |
Chrisjon89
06.20.14 | list rules. this kinda puts in perspective how good he was.
tempted to avoid the Dylan comparison but I'll say that Dylan was far more versatile lyrically - folk style storytelling, protest songs, stream of consciousness stuff, the break-up/confessional record, the later religious stuff, and he could also be genuinely funny which is extremely difficult to pull off sincerely. Elliott, as brilliant as he was, tended to focus on the downtrodden sad vibe (and nailed it like few others).
Cohen is different again. you mentioned Dylan as being a poet first and foremost and a musician second. i disagree - i think it's all rooted in folk tradition. if you said that about Cohen though, I'd agree. |
InfamousGrouse
06.20.14 | "Jamie shit all over this thread."
The person responsible for shitting on this thread is the idiot who claimed every Elliott release is better than Blood on the Tracks
12 is the best lyrical pick here ftr |
Chrisjon89
06.20.14 | yeah I love Everything Means Nothing To Me ^ the lyrics and that weird/awesome verse melody |
Rowan5215
06.20.14 | "The person responsible for shitting on this thread is the idiot who claimed every Elliott release is better than Blood on the Tracks"
God your attitude is annoying sometimes grouse |
Friday13th
06.20.14 | Hey, I'm the ass who brought up Dylan in the first place! Didn't think it would get this serious. I'm not even a giant Dylan fan, but I've been digging his albums recently especially his lyrics. Blood on the Tracks does have a couple samey parts agreed. Each album usually has a couple dull trad folk or blues songs, but you gotta hear the three from Bringing It All Back Home to Blonde on Blonde. |
scorpiusx
06.20.14 | "The person responsible for shitting on this thread is the idiot who claimed every Elliott release is better than Blood on the Tracks"
I do love shitting over my own lists. ^.~
Honestly though I didn't say it be to contrary; I gave an honest evaluation of how I see that particular album. At least I gave my reasoning for preferring Elliott (as did Jamie for preferring Dylan); so I think calling someone an idiot after a well versed opinion is immature. But hey, this is the internet, so what do I expect?
Btw quotes from Last Call, Shooting Star, The White Lady Loves You More, St Ides Heaven, and In the Lost and Found almost made this list. ^ |
JamieTwort
06.20.14 | "Goddamn. Jamie shit all over this thread. Not gonna sugarcoat it."
Stating an opinion that differs from yours equals shitting on the thread?
Also to clarify, I really like Elliott Smith, I'm not hating on him or anything. |
JamieTwort
06.20.14 | "Each album usually has a couple dull trad folk or blues songs, but you gotta hear the three from Bringing It All Back Home to Blonde on Blonde."
Blood on the Tracks is the one Dylan album that doesn't suffer from this at all and is better than all 3 of the albums in that 3 album stretch, although those 3 albums are all brilliant too. |
Friday13th
06.20.14 | @Jamie It is probably the most consistent, but how about "Lilly, Rosemary, and the Jack of Hearts?" That one was a definite yawner. |
NordicMindset
06.20.14 | You're all pretension, I never pay attention
|
JamieTwort
06.20.14 | @Friday: I love "Lilly, Rosemary and the Jack of Hearts", it's brilliant lyrically and is a great example of the versatility he displays on that album, not sounding anything like any of the other tracks but still keeping up the level of quality shown throughout. |
Friday13th
06.20.14 | @Jamie The lyrics I'm sure are great. I just couldn't get over the style and the repetition.
Anyways, I'll try to hear some more Elliot. I've heard Either/Or and wasn't too impressed, but I'm sure it takes time to appreciate. |
NorthernSkylark
06.21.14 | you are all wrong. townes van zandt is the king of songwriting
Well, in my world at least.
... And Morrissey is in a league of his own too |
JamieTwort
06.21.14 | lol Morrissey. |
NorthernSkylark
06.21.14 | wow, what a comeback! You got me there, sir
|
Rowan5215
06.21.14 | Don't talk shit about Moz |
avonbarksdale221
06.21.14 | Oh mother I can feel the soil falling over my head |
tommygun
06.21.14 | cool list |
JamieTwort
06.21.14 | Yeah cos lol'ing was totally meant to be a "comeback"... |
NorthernSkylark
06.21.14 | yeah cos I was being totally "sincere"... |
JamieTwort
06.21.14 | You were being sarcastic. |
NorthernSkylark
06.21.14 | cos you were being a tool |
tommygun
06.21.14 | guys don't argue :[ |
avonbarksdale221
06.21.14 | Arguing in Elliott threads just ain't right |
tommygun
06.21.14 | y r ppl talking about dylan itt |
JamieTwort
06.21.14 | Laughing at something I disagree with makes me a tool, right got it. |
avonbarksdale221
06.21.14 | Because we can't just enjoy anything for what it is, we have to incessantly rank, rate and compare.
|
tommygun
06.21.14 | wow avon tht sounds miserable |
NorthernSkylark
06.21.14 | It kinda does yeah. I mean have you even heard the Smiths? You certainly haven't rated them. |
avonbarksdale221
06.21.14 | Does it? I dunno I just try and enjoy what I want to, bollocks to the rest. |
tommygun
06.21.14 | i 5d hatful of hollow so um |
avonbarksdale221
06.21.14 | I 4'd Hatfull of Hallow, but heaven knows I'm miserable now. |
JamieTwort
06.21.14 | @Northern: lol seriously? Yes I have and I still find your statement about Morrissey being in a league of his own quite
humorous and if that makes me a tool to you then so be it :] |
NorthernSkylark
06.21.14 | You're a smart man
But I was addressing Jamie |
deathschool
06.21.14 | Yeah. This thread got fucked early on, Tommy. It's a shame. It had tons of potential. |
mryrtmrnfoxxxy
06.21.14 | northern you're doing that thing again where you're wrong and you keep going |
tommygun
06.21.14 | hard to pick fave elliott lyric passages there are hundreds of omg moments |
NorthernSkylark
06.21.14 | lol quite humorous |
avonbarksdale221
06.21.14 | Eh, Elliott wouldn't have cared if we fuck up
Brb going on a date with a rich white lady |
tommygun
06.21.14 | lately been real partial to the bit in high times where he says 'i'm so sick and tired tryna change your mind when it's so easy to disconnect miiiiine'
that bit is the best |
deathschool
06.21.14 | Any list is going to feel somehow incomplete, yeah. Still, this was a nice one. |
NorthernSkylark
06.21.14 | I'm headstrong and eventually I'll break stuff
|
JamieTwort
06.21.14 | "lol quite humorous"
Great comeback ;) |
deathschool
06.21.14 | Agreed on High Times too, tommy. That whole buildup just hits so goddamn hard. |
deathschool
06.21.14 | Can we stop the dick measuring for ten consecutive comments? |
mryrtmrnfoxxxy
06.21.14 | only one figure 8 song here weird |
tommygun
06.21.14 | CAN'T MAKE A SOUND - the slow motion moves me / the monologue means nothing to me / bored in the role but he can't stop / standing up to sit back down / or lose the one thing found / spinning the world like a toy top 'til there's a ghost in every town / can't make a sound
|
ShadowRemains
06.21.14 | lack of s/t songs is alarming |
tommygun
06.21.14 | I BETTER BE QUIET NOW - had a dream as an army man with an order just to march in my place while a dead enemy screams in my face / but I better be quiet now, I'm tired of wasting my breath / carrying on, not over it yet / wish I knew what you're doing and why you want to do it this way / so I can't go the distance / I got a long way to go / I'm getting further away |
NorthernSkylark
06.21.14 | Yeah, my intentional use of your petty insult was pretty great if I may so myself |
tommygun
06.21.14 | A DISTORTED REALITY IS NOW A NECESSITY TO BE FREE - you disappoint me, you people raking in on the world / the devil's script sells you the heart of a blackbird / shine on me baby cos it's raining in my heart |
tommygun
06.21.14 | CONDOR AVE - she took the Oldsmobile out past Condor Avenue / cops were running around the scene looking for some kind of clue / they never get uptight when a moth gets crushed / unless a light bulb really loved him very much / I'm lying down blowing smoke from my cigarette / little whisper smoke signs that you'll never get |
tommygun
06.21.14 | LAST CALL - church bells, now I'm awake and I guess it must be some kind of holiday / I can't seem to join in the celebration / but I'll go to the service and I'll go to pray and I'll sing the praises of my maker's name like I was as good as she made me |
JamieTwort
06.21.14 | Insult? Ok dude, if that's how you took it. All in good humour my end, obviously not at your end. |
tommygun
06.21.14 | guys stop being petty and post more elliott lyrics pls |
mryrtmrnfoxxxy
06.21.14 | guys jam hypocrisy |
NorthernSkylark
06.21.14 | People that you've been before, that you don't want around anymore
They push and shove and won't bend to your will
I'll keep them still |
JamieTwort
06.21.14 | You turned white like a saint
I'm tired of dancing on a pot of gold-flaked paint
Oh we're so very precious, you and I
And everything that you do makes me want to die
Oh I just told the biggest lie |
mryrtmrnfoxxxy
06.21.14 | The fatal afraid of spread disease, chaos and confusion
The energy physics long will be worth
That's why we have the right to really know
What happened, Roswell 47 |
Ryus
02.14.15 | good list |