Vegetarianism

madeyadams · 05-26-2006, 10:47 PM

So. I'm a vegetarian. I mainly did it for animal rights, but then it comes with added benefits such as a healther diet and lifestyle. However, it gets a lot of criticism from outsiders. The main argument against vegetarianism is people who are vegetarians don't get enough protein. This argument is so retarded because it's so untrue. Protein is also available in nuts, tofu, eggs, dairy, and a lot of vegetables. All of which I eat.. I love tofu. Anyway, my parents are really pissed as of late, literally telling me, "NO! You can't be a vegetarian. You'll get sick and your hair will lose its shine because of lack of protein." I feel like punching them.

What are your views on it?

Jharaski · 05-26-2006, 10:48 PM

It actually is true because "protein is protein" is false, and some of the essential amino acids are found only naturally in meat.

Though I respect anyone's decisions. I just can't respect anyone who believes that slaughterhouses are done in the way as shown on PETA's site.

madeyadams · 05-26-2006, 10:51 PM

Actually, they are. But mostly for cattle, because it has to be in and out so quickly due to sanitation reasons. I read a book on the meat industry and how they slaughter and package the meat. The workers sometimes get their own blood into the meat because they have to make such quick and thick cuts, and they don't even get health coverage for any injuries on the job.

Jharaski · 05-26-2006, 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by madeyadams

Actually, they are. But mostly for cattle, because it has to be in and out so quickly due to sanitation reasons. I read a book on the meat industry and how they slaughter and package the meat. The workers sometimes get their own blood into the meat because they have to make such quick and thick cuts, and they don't even get health coverage for any injuries on the job.

I get most of my meat from independent farms.

edit - woops, refuted wrong point

~~Papa_Lazarou~~ · 05-26-2006, 10:53 PM

lol vegetarianism

Samuel · 05-26-2006, 10:55 PM

I have no problem with people doing it, so long as they stay out of my business. Granted, I think it's a bit silly, and would never do it my self. But I don't accuse people of being immoral for choosing to eat in a way that's different from mine.

My brother is a vegetarian. Unfortunately, he dislikes tofu and most beans, doesn't take supplements, and essentially gets zero protein on a regular basis. Of course, he has hair loss problems, and very little muscle mass. If you're going to do it, then at least do it in a way that does not stunt your hormone production.

People make an impact. You can kill things to get protein, or you can kill things while getting protein. I just ride with the precedents. But I fully support any other's decision to try different methods.

Syncratic · 05-26-2006, 11:00 PM

I find many vegetarians to take the almighty, holier-than-thou approach, claiming to be better than someone who eats meat.

As well, the animal rights thing is actually admirable. PETA and their complete disregard for anything not in relation to their own cause tarnish that reputation.

Although, if one wants to take that avenue, by all means, go ahead, more power to you. Just respect others' and their own avenues.

madeyadams · 05-26-2006, 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Syncratic

I find many vegetarians to take the almighty, holier-than-thou approach, claiming to be better than someone who eats meat.

I agree with this. I really can't stand people who are vegetarians who look down on people who choose to eat meat. "omg you are eating meat?! I can't be seen with you, you are disgusting!"

I dont get it.

Syncratic · 05-26-2006, 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by madeyadams

I agree with this. I really can't stand people who are vegetarians who look down on people who choose to eat meat. "omg you are eating meat?! I can't be seen with you, you are disgusting!"

I dont get it.

People such as that in general practices tend to piss me off.

Jharaski · 05-26-2006, 11:03 PM

My high school had this horrible animal loving group. I forget the name of it though, but it was totally retarded. I think it was suffer. They were totally self righteous and launched these campaigns such as "the 4 food groups" leaving out meat and dairy - grains, nuts, fruits, veggies. It was bad. But no one took them seriously.

silicon71 · 05-26-2006, 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron White

I didn't climb to the top of the food chain to eat carrots all day.

That pretty much sums up my views on Vegetarianism.

MAthiAS · 05-26-2006, 11:21 PM

Funny I find this thread after just having watched this.
http://www.petatv.com/tvpopup/video.asp?video=gory&Player=wm&speed=_med

Quote:

It actually is true because "protein is protein" is false, and some of the essential amino acids are found only naturally in meat.

If you look into the proteins of specific foods you can get complete protein without eating meat.

Quote:

I agree with this. I really can't stand people who are vegetarians who look down on people who choose to eat meat. "omg you are eating meat?! I can't be seen with you, you are disgusting!"

I dont get it.

While I agree with the message and am a vegetarian, it saddens me that some supporters take an entirely counterproductive means of carrying out the cause.

Cain · 05-26-2006, 11:22 PM

Three infants got kicked to death in the first week of January this year in Brooklyn and people are screaming about how the way we kill animals for food is inhumane.

Forgive the sarcasm in the first paragraph, but let's be clear here. Man has attained an unprecedented amount of influence (I hesitate to say "control") on his natural surroundings. We are in many ways far removed from what could be called our "basic nature." With civilization as we know it comes the collateral damage to our natural world as we mold it to fit our now-natural aesthetic. No matter what we did, that wouldn't change, and it certainly can't change now that we're so far in.

It's this way no matter what lifestyle you pick. A vegeterian lifestyle still demands an immense amount of mass harvesting of vegetables and so-called "natural" foodstuffs that don't require as much carving as meat does. Fine, but it eats up the land and the soil just the same, and no matter which way you spin it there are many tangible benefits to eating meat that simply do not exist in other foods.

The argument against eating meat that comes from harvested animals can only come from a kind of odd marriage of, IMO, misguided utopist sentiment and personal aesthetics. In the animal kingdom, animals get eaten by other animals. We talk about the "rights" animals have as though they're people but really the rights they have are to prolong the species in any way possible, just as we do. We're no better than they are, so to argue that it is inhuman to kill them for food suggests that we're better than every animal on the planet that digests meat and kills to get it. We're not. Look at how many of our own kind we kill despite all our socially constructed morality. As nice as it sounds, it doesn't wash with the reality.

One could even argue that cattle, for instance, is one of the most successful species in natural history, because they have found their natural niche and insurance of survival through being essentially harvested for food by man. There is also a load of evidence to suggest that, "Chicken Run"-themed films to the contrary, that animals really would not know the difference and probably don't keep Holocaust-survivor style diaries about "life before the farm." Thus the anthropomorphization of these animals and the suggestion that our treatment of them doesn't accord to their "rights" is really disproportionate to the level of awareness of their lives and fate they could have. Since rights are not natural but constructed by man, awarding them selectively to certain animals because we think we should be "better than that" is quite silly. Some vegetarians have said to me that the only way they could condone the killing of animals is the sacrifice of all the social and literal constructions that gives mankind the morbid advantage in the natural world. This is Noble Savage poppycock. We built our advantages and have the right to use them just as a lion has the right to use their claws the better to rip at an animal carcass.

Since morality in all its convuluted form is a human invention, it strikes me as silly to ascribe it to a matter of survival such as nourishment and the interaction of man with other animal species on the earth. There are a lot of double standards and philosophical holes in the "I am a vegetarian for animal rights" viewpoint. If anything, you should be a vegetarian only because of percieved nutritional benefits. That's the only way it makes sense, frankly.

LOL LONG POST BY CAIN

italic zero · 05-26-2006, 11:35 PM

I don't get why animals should have rights, but I don't really care what anyone else eats.

Reaganista · 05-26-2006, 11:38 PM

Quote:

animal rights... eggs, dairy

that's cool lol.

Against Miik! · 05-26-2006, 11:40 PM

You could always go organic with the meats. There are lots of good things in meats for you. I suggest at least eating fish and chicken. Leaving red meat out is ok if you want.

MAthiAS · 05-26-2006, 11:43 PM

Quote:

It's this way no matter what lifestyle you pick. A vegeterian lifestyle still demands an immense amount of mass harvesting of vegetables and so-called "natural" foodstuffs that don't require as much carving as meat does. Fine, but it eats up the land and the soil just the same, and no matter which way you spin it there are many tangible benefits to eating meat that simply do not exist in other foods.

Obviously food of any kind requires land... yet it requires less resources to produce for a vegetarian than a meateater. I'm not sure where your point is there.

Could you specify some benefits that exist only with eating meats? On the downside though, there's the hormones, additives, preservatives, diseases, etc.

Against Miik! · 05-26-2006, 11:45 PM

We could feed the United States 6 times over with all the grain that cows and other animals eat that we carve up for meat.

But we wouldn't do that anyways so it doesn't matter. However, that land could be put to use for growing corn for ethanol fuel. That would be the most efficient thing to do, but we as Americans would build malls on it.

PepsiMetal · 05-26-2006, 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by italic zero

I don't get why animals should have rights, but I don't really care what anyone else eats.

Would you feel the pain if you were skinned alive? Well so do animals.

Jharaski · 05-26-2006, 11:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by i am miik

We could feed the United States 6 times over with all the grain that cows and other animals eat that we carve up for meat.

But we wouldn't do that anyways so it doesn't matter. However, that land could be put to use for growing corn for ethanol fuel. That would be the most efficient thing to do, but we as Americans would build malls on it.

Or just go with veal instead, with only a few mama cows. Less grain needed.

05-26-2006, 10:47 PM	#1
madeyadams Registered User Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 2,163	Vegetarianism So. I'm a vegetarian. I mainly did it for animal rights, but then it comes with added benefits such as a healther diet and lifestyle. However, it gets a lot of criticism from outsiders. The main argument against vegetarianism is people who are vegetarians don't get enough protein. This argument is so retarded because it's so untrue. Protein is also available in nuts, tofu, eggs, dairy, and a lot of vegetables. All of which I eat.. I love tofu. Anyway, my parents are really pissed as of late, literally telling me, "NO! You can't be a vegetarian. You'll get sick and your hair will lose its shine because of lack of protein." I feel like punching them. What are your views on it?

05-26-2006, 11:22 PM	#13
Cain xenomorph may be involved Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 9,085	Three infants got kicked to death in the first week of January this year in Brooklyn and people are screaming about how the way we kill animals for food is inhumane. Forgive the sarcasm in the first paragraph, but let's be clear here. Man has attained an unprecedented amount of influence (I hesitate to say "control") on his natural surroundings. We are in many ways far removed from what could be called our "basic nature." With civilization as we know it comes the collateral damage to our natural world as we mold it to fit our now-natural aesthetic. No matter what we did, that wouldn't change, and it certainly can't change now that we're so far in. It's this way no matter what lifestyle you pick. A vegeterian lifestyle still demands an immense amount of mass harvesting of vegetables and so-called "natural" foodstuffs that don't require as much carving as meat does. Fine, but it eats up the land and the soil just the same, and no matter which way you spin it there are many tangible benefits to eating meat that simply do not exist in other foods. The argument against eating meat that comes from harvested animals can only come from a kind of odd marriage of, IMO, misguided utopist sentiment and personal aesthetics. In the animal kingdom, animals get eaten by other animals. We talk about the "rights" animals have as though they're people but really the rights they have are to prolong the species in any way possible, just as we do. We're no better than they are, so to argue that it is inhuman to kill them for food suggests that we're better than every animal on the planet that digests meat and kills to get it. We're not. Look at how many of our own kind we kill despite all our socially constructed morality. As nice as it sounds, it doesn't wash with the reality. One could even argue that cattle, for instance, is one of the most successful species in natural history, because they have found their natural niche and insurance of survival through being essentially harvested for food by man. There is also a load of evidence to suggest that, "Chicken Run"-themed films to the contrary, that animals really would not know the difference and probably don't keep Holocaust-survivor style diaries about "life before the farm." Thus the anthropomorphization of these animals and the suggestion that our treatment of them doesn't accord to their "rights" is really disproportionate to the level of awareness of their lives and fate they could have. Since rights are not natural but constructed by man, awarding them selectively to certain animals because we think we should be "better than that" is quite silly. Some vegetarians have said to me that the only way they could condone the killing of animals is the sacrifice of all the social and literal constructions that gives mankind the morbid advantage in the natural world. This is Noble Savage poppycock. We built our advantages and have the right to use them just as a lion has the right to use their claws the better to rip at an animal carcass. Since morality in all its convuluted form is a human invention, it strikes me as silly to ascribe it to a matter of survival such as nourishment and the interaction of man with other animal species on the earth. There are a lot of double standards and philosophical holes in the "I am a vegetarian for animal rights" viewpoint. If anything, you should be a vegetarian only because of percieved nutritional benefits. That's the only way it makes sense, frankly. LOL LONG POST BY CAIN Last edited by Cain; 05-27-2006 at 05:11 PM.

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05-26-2006, 10:48 PM	#2
Jharaski No more lobster Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Hillsborough NJ Posts: 3,447	It actually is true because "protein is protein" is false, and some of the essential amino acids are found only naturally in meat. Though I respect anyone's decisions. I just can't respect anyone who believes that slaughterhouses are done in the way as shown on PETA's site.

05-26-2006, 10:51 PM	#3
madeyadams Registered User Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 2,163	Actually, they are. But mostly for cattle, because it has to be in and out so quickly due to sanitation reasons. I read a book on the meat industry and how they slaughter and package the meat. The workers sometimes get their own blood into the meat because they have to make such quick and thick cuts, and they don't even get health coverage for any injuries on the job.

05-26-2006, 10:53 PM	#5
~~Papa_Lazarou~~ Banned Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: #sputnikmusic @ quakenet.org Posts: 204	lol vegetarianism

05-26-2006, 10:55 PM	#6
Samuel Piano face! Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Knoxville TN Posts: 9,332	I have no problem with people doing it, so long as they stay out of my business. Granted, I think it's a bit silly, and would never do it my self. But I don't accuse people of being immoral for choosing to eat in a way that's different from mine. My brother is a vegetarian. Unfortunately, he dislikes tofu and most beans, doesn't take supplements, and essentially gets zero protein on a regular basis. Of course, he has hair loss problems, and very little muscle mass. If you're going to do it, then at least do it in a way that does not stunt your hormone production. People make an impact. You can kill things to get protein, or you can kill things while getting protein. I just ride with the precedents. But I fully support any other's decision to try different methods.

05-26-2006, 11:00 PM	#7
Syncratic Forget it, you're ****ed Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: In your dresser Posts: 3,750	I find many vegetarians to take the almighty, holier-than-thou approach, claiming to be better than someone who eats meat. As well, the animal rights thing is actually admirable. PETA and their complete disregard for anything not in relation to their own cause tarnish that reputation. Although, if one wants to take that avenue, by all means, go ahead, more power to you. Just respect others' and their own avenues.

05-26-2006, 11:03 PM	#10
Jharaski No more lobster Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Hillsborough NJ Posts: 3,447	My high school had this horrible animal loving group. I forget the name of it though, but it was totally retarded. I think it was suffer. They were totally self righteous and launched these campaigns such as "the 4 food groups" leaving out meat and dairy - grains, nuts, fruits, veggies. It was bad. But no one took them seriously.

05-26-2006, 11:35 PM	#14
italic zero klik Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Boston Posts: 7,353	I don't get why animals should have rights, but I don't really care what anyone else eats.

05-26-2006, 11:40 PM	#16
Against Miik! Registered User Join Date: May 2003 Location: Athens Posts: 18,239	You could always go organic with the meats. There are lots of good things in meats for you. I suggest at least eating fish and chicken. Leaving red meat out is ok if you want.

05-26-2006, 11:45 PM	#18
Against Miik! Registered User Join Date: May 2003 Location: Athens Posts: 18,239	We could feed the United States 6 times over with all the grain that cows and other animals eat that we carve up for meat. But we wouldn't do that anyways so it doesn't matter. However, that land could be put to use for growing corn for ethanol fuel. That would be the most efficient thing to do, but we as Americans would build malls on it.