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Old 09-16-2014, 02:49 PM   #73471
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i watched some native american version of cops and it had people calling 911 to deal with some spirits and i thought well, the cops are surely gonna be mad at these people for making them drive a few hours into the desert for this bullshit right

naw, that cop got all serious and started looking for the spirits
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Old 09-16-2014, 02:50 PM   #73472
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federally funded spirit hunting

so do i feel bad about the native americans not owning all of america

no
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Old 09-16-2014, 11:51 PM   #73473
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The official position of the is government is that the American continent was occupied prior to European arrival by sovereign native tribes, an incident of which sovereignty was ownership (dominium) over their customary lands, which ownership persisted after the acquisition of sovereignty by the crown and then the USA and was converted into a burden on the crown/federal government's radical allodial title.

Ie, that the us was not "desert and uninhibited"
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Old 09-17-2014, 12:55 AM   #73474
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it doesn't matter what they say. the reality is that if it was like that then indians would own american and everyone else is a tenant.
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Old 09-17-2014, 01:07 AM   #73475
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Don't think that follows
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Old 09-17-2014, 05:56 AM   #73476
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so they say it was owned by the tribes. they ay that it was taken over by the crown, and then the USA. but the original owners, those with sovereignty over the land at the time of invasion, didn't agree and didn't have a say
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Old 09-17-2014, 06:34 AM   #73477
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yeah see you totally missed the part about actual, legal and demarcated borders and nationhood existing.
except yeah they did exist

NATIVE AMERICAN HISTORY 101 HERE WE GO RON-->
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Old 09-17-2014, 06:35 AM   #73478
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federally funded spirit hunting

so do i feel bad about the native americans not owning all of america

no
as if the diehard christianity of early settlers (and much of america today) is any less ridiculous
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Old 09-17-2014, 06:37 AM   #73479
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The official position of the is government is that the American continent was occupied prior to European arrival by sovereign native tribes, an incident of which sovereignty was ownership (dominium) over their customary lands, which ownership persisted after the acquisition of sovereignty by the crown and then the USA and was converted into a burden on the crown/federal government's radical allodial title.

Ie, that the us was not "desert and uninhibited"
that's neat and i appreciate that

kind of irrelevant though
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Old 09-17-2014, 06:47 AM   #73480
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as if the diehard christianity of early settlers (and much of america today) is any less ridiculous
oh

what's the wording of the native american establishment clause then
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Old 09-17-2014, 07:27 AM   #73481
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i always thought the diehard christianity was just a front to get the place to themselves
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Old 09-17-2014, 02:24 PM   #73482
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so they say it was owned by the tribes. they ay that it was taken over by the crown, and then the USA. but the original owners, those with sovereignty over the land at the time of invasion, didn't agree and didn't have a say
Pretty much. Native title implies the land was not terra nullius, which is what Ron said, not that native sovereignty couldn't be displaced.

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kind of irrelevant though
I only brought it up because Ron said:

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No one owned America when the first Vikings stepped foot on North American soil neither did they when the first colonists set up shop. It was essentially a forest wasteland of constantly warring native tribes with nebulous territorial claims which we constantly changing
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Old 09-17-2014, 02:38 PM   #73483
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except yeah they did exist

NATIVE AMERICAN HISTORY 101 HERE WE GO RON-->
yeah extremely abstract, loose territories that were constantly changing and shifting when they were warring with no written legal documentation of them existing sweet system bros
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Old 09-17-2014, 03:22 PM   #73484
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don't need a written legal system dude.
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Old 09-17-2014, 03:23 PM   #73485
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just another thing european immigrants did better

write shit down
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Old 09-17-2014, 04:12 PM   #73486
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don't need a written legal system dude.
maybe when you're in the stone age






on an unrelated note:


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2758055/Outraged-Swiss-village-1-000-residents-forced-raise-taxes-African-refugee-mother-seven-moves-costs-40-000-month-benefits.html


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Old 09-17-2014, 04:13 PM   #73487
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ja dude, native american cultures were stone age.

doesn't mean they didn't' own their lands.
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Old 09-17-2014, 04:15 PM   #73488
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that's ok it's just one big case of eminent domain anyway
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Old 09-17-2014, 04:15 PM   #73489
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eminent domain requires compensation, js.
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Old 09-17-2014, 04:17 PM   #73490
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only post-constitution

dude i thought you were a lawyer or something
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Old 09-17-2014, 04:29 PM   #73491
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at common law too, at least in england.
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Old 09-17-2014, 04:58 PM   #73492
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ja dude, native american cultures were stone age.

doesn't mean they didn't' own their lands.
Hey, I've said in the past that I'm totally down for retooling the reservation system and handing sizable lands over to them so they can preserve their cultures.


I'm just saying that having a wavering history of where your official borders are is pretty troublesome when nothing is official and no record of it exists.


"Our land ends at that rotting tree over there"


"No it doesn't! It BEGINS at the rotting tree and ENDS at the creek where my cousin froze to death two winters ago!"
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Old 09-17-2014, 10:09 PM   #73493
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I'm not going to pretend their interests were as certain as modern certificates of title, but they were reasonably certain and capable of proof by parol evidence. By contrast, I think it was only in the 17th century that it became a requirement in england to prove interests in land by writing.
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Old 09-18-2014, 07:48 PM   #73494
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Ron continues to embellish the appeal-to-white-man fallacy.
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Old 09-20-2014, 01:11 PM   #73495
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"The great spirit tells me my lands begins where the buffalo grazes the most during the summer"



"Uh....sure..."
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Old 09-20-2014, 01:32 PM   #73496
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Pretty much. Native title implies the land was not terra nullius, which is what Ron said, not that native sovereignty couldn't be displaced.
so how would that map on to scotland?
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Old 09-20-2014, 01:51 PM   #73497
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i watched some native american version of cops and it had people calling 911 to deal with some spirits and i thought well, the cops are surely gonna be mad at these people for making them drive a few hours into the desert for this bullshit right

naw, that cop got all serious and started looking for the spirits
sounds pretty cool, where can i watch this?
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Old 09-20-2014, 02:52 PM   #73498
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it was on natgeo i think

navajo cops
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