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Old 04-16-2014, 05:33 AM   #72961
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Originally Posted by amprok View Post
if our country was being attacked, yes.
would i join the military and fight in our interests over seas? no.
and if you had to fight overseas for USA, because Russia was extending his grimy hands all over Europe, making at last a meaningful agreement and sending petrodollar into a tailspin.
Nobody is going to invade USA, don't be stupid.
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Old 04-16-2014, 05:34 AM   #72962
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Originally Posted by Volumnius Flush View Post
Most satisfying jobs:

top four:

1. Mathematician

2. tenured university professor

3. statistician

4. actuary

So they virtually all entail math and then professing includes mathematics professing so it seems clear being a mathematics graduate can seriously can contribute to your overall happiness, and of course finances.

the bottom four:

196. broadcaster

197. taxi driver

198. enlisted military personnel

199. newspaper reporter

200. lumberjack

________________________________________

I'd like to make some comments and raise a few questions.

First of all, why do mathematics graduates suffer such a high rate of satisfaction in their careers.. is there something intrinsic to people who grasp difficult math? Is it that they are more logical and entertain a more realistic and rational perspective on life, is it that they are the gatekeepers of divine science and will never face a shortage in employment, or are they just more easily entertained than most people?

University professor.. I think this speaks for itself. I think all of us at Sputnik have at one point dreamed about being a professor. I know I have... a lot.

___________________________

For the least satisfying careers..

I think it's a shame that military ranks at the bottom. Of all the jobs the government should make that insufferable... I'd suggest being a tax collector or a politician ought to be the most discouraged, not the military. I'm not a supporter of the hyper-militaristic stance of going into countries and crushing anyone who remotely threatens the total hegemony of the oligarchs who run the American power. But I think many of them are good people who sign up with good intentions, not aware that the government considers them nothing more than just 'stupid pawns' like Kissinger reportedly once said.

Broadcast... that one is the most far-fetched one on the list. No one is forced to become a news anchor and from what I see, most people who do are really passionate about their field and obviously it's a tremendous gift to an on-air anchor, since it's like radio, a lot of people want to do it but there are so few spots available.

Taxi driving.. That could be a pain in the ass not having any physical movement... just sitting for forty hours a week. But I don't think anyone forces drivers to work full time and if they need something a little more physically demanding, they can get a second job part time.

Overall, it's a good list.
every person I knew that view mathematics as more than a useful tool were tools.
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Old 04-16-2014, 06:11 AM   #72963
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Nobody is going to invade USA, don't be stupid.
no, i don't believe they will either. I was simply answering a question.
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Old 04-16-2014, 12:53 PM   #72964
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every person I knew that view mathematics as more than a useful tool were tools.
So you're most serious, non-trolling, productive response is that mathematicians are all tools?

That those who help us understand what is at the heart of all science, are tools.

That the scientists who made space travel possible, are tools.

That the economists who do whatever it is that they do, I really don't know, but they are all tools.

Everyone who has helped to enlighten us on the law of attraction of the celestial bodies starting with Newton, are all tools.

How in your right mind could you say that mathematicians are tools?
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Old 04-16-2014, 12:55 PM   #72965
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Originally Posted by Peacelog View Post
and if you had to fight overseas for USA, because Russia was extending his grimy hands all over Europe, making at last a meaningful agreement and sending petrodollar into a tailspin.
Nobody is going to invade USA, don't be stupid.
Invasion of the US, hmm? There was a man who saw in a vision such a war take place. In fact, I believe his words were true. I have studied his foresayings, and I believe he is correct. We have by my count, less than six years and to be more exact I'd risk being in error. By six, I mean a very late maximum. If we're still here in six years then I will agree to give up my apocalyptic fantasies.
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Old 04-16-2014, 02:08 PM   #72966
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Originally Posted by Volumnius Flush View Post
So you're most serious, non-trolling, productive response is that mathematicians are all tools?

That those who help us understand what is at the heart of all science, are tools.

That the scientists who made space travel possible, are tools.

That the economists who do whatever it is that they do, I really don't know, but they are all tools.

Everyone who has helped to enlighten us on the law of attraction of the celestial bodies starting with Newton, are all tools.

How in your right mind could you say that mathematicians are tools?
no, men of science develop mathematics as a tool not a truth in itself.
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Old 04-16-2014, 02:44 PM   #72967
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Why would Russia invading Ukraine hurt the US dollar?
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Old 04-16-2014, 04:36 PM   #72968
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Why would Russia invading Ukraine hurt the US dollar?
imagine that putin suddenly doesn't want dollars for his gas, pro-Russian ukrania controlling the pipeline, and russia starting to sell gas to Ukraine and whole Europe in euros or rubbles instead of dollars. Imagine that, merkel and putin get cozy in that sense.

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Old 04-16-2014, 09:31 PM   #72969
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"imagine if russia wanted to bankrupt itself in a single stroke"

pricing exports in rubles would be entirely self-defeating, since the whole point of exporting is to get in hard currency.

why would the eu connive in an attempt to weaken the us and strengthen russia, especially when doing so would be so hugely technically difficult, laborious and expensive?

Last edited by Smokey D; 04-16-2014 at 09:33 PM.
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Old 04-17-2014, 12:26 AM   #72970
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no, men of science develop mathematics as a tool not a truth in itself.
When you say 'develop', you make it sound like a synthetic fiber or new piece of technology. It isn't just 'developed'; it is discovered.
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Old 04-17-2014, 09:04 AM   #72971
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http://www.ctvnews.ca/could-global-warming-turn-canada-into-a-superpower-1.556373

bow down
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Old 04-17-2014, 09:23 AM   #72972
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When you say 'develop', you make it sound like a synthetic fiber or new piece of technology. It isn't just 'developed'; it is discovered.
you are a tool. mathematics isnt discovered because it wasnt there before, like fire.
You are a tool.
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Old 04-17-2014, 09:25 AM   #72973
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"imagine if russia wanted to bankrupt itself in a single stroke"

pricing exports in rubles would be entirely self-defeating, since the whole point of exporting is to get in hard currency.

why would the eu connive in an attempt to weaken the us and strengthen russia, especially when doing so would be so hugely technically difficult, laborious and expensive?
Rubles or EUros.

This time though putin is not some no name Saddam to take invasion from USA lightly.
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Old 04-17-2014, 03:20 PM   #72974
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you are a tool. mathematics isnt discovered because it wasnt there before, like fire.
You are a tool.
So math is invented? Just like evolution was invented, and the moon landing was invented. Because the way I'm observing the definitions is that something is awaiting its invention or discovery and no mathematician can claim ownership of mathematical formulae, or you'd have the curious scenario of the descendants of Gauss and Poincaré bringing endless litigations upon any who surreptitiously makes use of the intellectual property of their renowned ancestor.

But all that is invented, much like the moon landing (some say). So quite clearly math is intrinsic to the natural order and is only discovered by man, and for selfish reasons like you say, but that doesn't equate to an invention.
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Old 04-17-2014, 09:58 PM   #72975
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Rubles or EUros.

This time though putin is not some no name Saddam to take invasion from USA lightly.
what?
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Old 04-17-2014, 11:20 PM   #72976
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You guys are cheap and easy resource, right?

Can you recommend any books on American military aid to the Middle East? I don't mean direct warfare, but all of the arms deals with Saudi Arabia, Israel, and Egypt. I suppose I'm interested in the policy and politics of say, Lockheed Martin selling Apache helicopters to Saudi Arabia, or F15s to Israel...thanks
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Old 04-18-2014, 07:09 PM   #72977
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So math is invented? Just like evolution was invented, and the moon landing was invented. Because the way I'm observing the definitions is that something is awaiting its invention or discovery and no mathematician can claim ownership of mathematical formulae, or you'd have the curious scenario of the descendants of Gauss and Poincaré bringing endless litigations upon any who surreptitiously makes use of the intellectual property of their renowned ancestor.

But all that is invented, much like the moon landing (some say). So quite clearly math is intrinsic to the natural order and is only discovered by man, and for selfish reasons like you say, but that doesn't equate to an invention.
math is inventing the wheel, not discovering the stone it was built in. Most of the math was formulated and built, by humans needs. It is not a discovery like DNA or the earth goes around the sun.
For example read, the creation of number 0, or negative numbers, or imaginary numbers, or even Pi. WHy pi exists, do you think that pi is a discovery?

I think you are confusing mathematics with physics/biology/etc all the other sciences that use math clarify knowledge and make progress.
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Old 04-18-2014, 07:18 PM   #72978
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A poor mathmathicians (eg many school teachers), that know mathematical procedures but dont acknowledge mathematical intentions, are just crunching numbers and teaching other how to do it, without actual direction. These kind of people will never make the field go forward because they hold math as pure truth instead of mankind powerful tool.
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Old 04-18-2014, 10:38 PM   #72979
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I think you speak an eloquent truth that is simply the flipside of what I'm saying. Math for me is beautiful in and of itself. For you, it is also beautiful for how it powers the world. I agree. If the caveman had only stared curiously at the cave wall under light of ramskin torch, motioning to his son or daughter at the marvelous principle of numbers, then this very magnificent wall, that mathematics today makes possible, on a forum or some other odd spot on the internet, would not at all be possible.

I had a grasp of numbers as a kid. I competed in various math events. But I didn't have the discipline as a student to focus on the higher orders of math. And the schools largely would not have had the resources. But I'm 25 today and I'm returning to school to take math, not as a requirement or for a future I expect to have in it, but because it is beautiful and personally meaningful now. As a child, I battered anyone who challenged me in my competitions, as a brutal teacher. But today, I want to sit quietly at the foot of Nature, and be humbled by the great wisdom it has to offer and satisfy myself to know that I will never know the first thing about mathematics.
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Old 04-18-2014, 10:44 PM   #72980
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Originally Posted by Peacelog View Post
math is inventing the wheel, not discovering the stone it was built in. Most of the math was formulated and built, by humans needs. It is not a discovery like DNA or the earth goes around the sun.
For example read, the creation of number 0, or negative numbers, or imaginary numbers, or even Pi. WHy pi exists, do you think that pi is a discovery?

I think you are confusing mathematics with physics/biology/etc all the other sciences that use math clarify knowledge and make progress.
π is the a coherent description of an irrational number indicating the ratio of the circumference to the diameter of a specific shape bounded by the sequence of points equidistant from a fixed point. It was discovered.

e, which has endless applications in science and discussing logarithmic functions in a coherent way, was discovered as a constant by Leonhard Euler.

Φ, The very reflection of beauty in nature, is described by the following equation:

http://www.gizapyramid.com/phi_equation.gif

How do you gather that these were only fashioned by scientists for utilitarian ends, rather than as very basic and intrinsic facts hidden in the natural order?
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